New Enhancement Point system really hurts...

[Srotten]

Just spec'd out my main character (1 lvl Barbarian / 19 lvl Sorcerer, yes I know that is odd but I enjoyed it), and man the new point system really messed up the point of the build. All the advantages of taking Barb are gone now... I can't get to toughness and the sprint is gone. Can I ask why you would move Barbarian Sprint from a lvl 1 ability to a level 3? Just seems like you changed a lot of stuff that could have stayed same level in the new tree system. Will you be tweaking this in the future or is it set? (before I rework my character). Also why is the main tree for humans filled with human versatility boost? Some of us never use that, and there are many others that would have been more universal.

[mezzorco]

I can't get to toughness and the sprint is gone. Can I ask why you would move Barbarian Sprint from a lvl 1 ability to a level 3? Just seems like you changed a lot of stuff that could have stayed same level in the new tree system.

The main difference is that now, once you reach an enhancement, you can get all ranks of it. That is, requisites in terms of minimum level and AP spent are set for rank 1, if you can get to rank 1 you can take rank 3 too. Before E.Pass, there were prerequisites for all ranks of enhancements.

I agree with you that this isn't the best way to manage it. For example, you can splash 1 ftr level and take Haste Boost III ! Or 1 cleric level and take Divine Might III without CHA prereqs...


Also why is the main tree for humans filled with human versatility boost? Some of us never use that, and there are many others that would have been more universal.

Now human boost is more versatile than before. You can take +20 universal spell power, and melee damage boost now isn't flat but 20%, just to give two examples.

[Xorlandu]

Human damage boost has been a % increase for quite some time now. Believe it was changed to a % in U14 while the tooltip in the enhancement window was never changed.

[Srotten]

Human damage boost has been a % increase for quite some time now. Believe it was changed to a % in U14 while the tooltip in the enhancement window was never changed.

I think you missed my point... I don't care about it being %, I don't want the skill at all, but it forces me to take it if I want ANY human bonuses. I think we should have more choices on the build, which is what has always made DDO stand out from the rest.

Why cant we have a choice of options to activate that particular tree, instead of force feeding the preset?

And again, why did they have to change min lvl for Barbarian tree so we can't get Barbarian toughness and sprint with a lvl 1 splash like we used to?

[PsychoBlonde]

I think you missed my point... I don't care about it being %, I don't want the skill at all, but it forces me to take it if I want ANY human bonuses. I think we should have more choices on the build, which is what has always made DDO stand out from the rest.

Yeah, it was SO MUCH better before when you had to take 2 points in Improved Skill: Tumble to get Ninja Spy and a ton of awful feats to get Arcane Archer or Tempest!

OH WAIT.

We've always been required to get mediocre stuff in order to access good stuff and, in fact, this is a lot LESS of a problem now than it was because you don't have to get crappy FEATS in order to get halfway decent ENHANCEMENTS.

If they had actually made this problem WORSE this complaint MIGHT hold some water. As it is, this is like complaining that your free dessert doesn't have enough whipped cream on it.

[Srotten]

Yeah, it was SO MUCH better before when you had to take 2 points in Improved Skill: Tumble to get Ninja Spy and a ton of awful feats to get Arcane Archer or Tempest!

OH WAIT.

We've always been required to get mediocre stuff in order to access good stuff and, in fact, this is a lot LESS of a problem now than it was because you don't have to get crappy FEATS in order to get halfway decent ENHANCEMENTS.

If they had actually made this problem WORSE this complaint MIGHT hold some water. As it is, this is like complaining that your free dessert doesn't have enough whipped cream on it.

Funny, somehow I don't think if you ran your character up to level 20, THREE times and then a change totally nullified the purpose of the Multi-Class you would be so easily dismissive. I agree that there is some good that came from the rework, BUT before you had MORE CHOICES that didn't lock you in to a specific line of enhancements. If you look back at the original post, the questions were are these set in stone or are they going to be tweaked before I have to use my heart of wood to respec, and the other question was why did they take so many things away that didn't need to be. There is NO REASON they couldn't keep the toughness enhancement and Barbarian Sprint available to lvl 1's as before. It's their game, and their sandbox, I just want to know what the new rules are (and how permanent) before I try to adapt to them. Your comments are not constructive or informative what so ever.

[mezzorco]

Are these set in stone or are they going to be tweaked before I have to use my heart of wood to respec?

Enhancements are likely to be tuned in the near future. Now devs can better understand if a tree is unbalanced and change it accordingly. However, these changes will be minor, for example AP cost adjustments and maybe reworked mechaincs, but they are no likely to rework the entire brand new system.
Long story short: don't expect to be able to take those enhancements at barb 1, although it could happen.


Why did they take so many things away that didn't need to be?

I can understand your upset, but they had to make a choice. As I said in another post, in this system if you can take rank1 of an enhancements, you can take rank 3 too.
This has two consequences:
1: they can't put powerful enhancements too low, or you would be more powerful than before (note: before you were able to take only rank 1, not all ranks)
2: if they put too much stuff at early levels, higher levels become empty and not appealing anymore.

You are able to take lvl 1 barb in a sorc if you want, and doing so you gain 3% dodge, die hard feat, 10% movement speed, 12hp, light and medium armor, 2 fort and much more. If it's not enough, then you're not forced to splash.
A lot of builds lost their effectiveness and a lot of builds gained effectivenes, just build an effective one.

[SisAmethyst]

Enhancements are likely to be tuned in the near future. Now devs can better understand if a tree is unbalanced and change it accordingly. However, these changes will be minor, for example AP cost adjustments and maybe reworked mechaincs, but they are no likely to rework the entire brand new system.
Long story short: don't expect to be able to take those enhancements at barb 1, although it could happen.

Looking from past experience, if they announced to may change something in the future it either took them several years or they never made it. So somehow I doubt they do any modifications in the near future, except it was too beneficial for players and had to be balanced downwards...

To the OP, the question is for what purpose did you splash, just for the sprint bonus? If this is your only concern, then - if I am not wrong - you could use your +20 heart and replace the barbarian with Ranger instead to get a sprint boost access. If not I don't see how the bonus you can get from your Barbarian (as mezzorco said: dodge, die hard feat, ...) is actually a bad trade-off. At least not in a way that it totally hamper your effectiveness. Considering you spent 70 points in the Sorc, tree you would still have 10 to spend in the Barb tree which is more then plenty, especially as you can choose now between 3 Barb Pre°.

Anyway, with changes come the chance that not everybody will be happy, as one just can't please everybody. So Finally Pally is only good for a 6 level splash while other classes like Rogue got a boost. But as they knew they couldn't please everybody, everybody got the heart to be able to adapt.

Edit: ° you can have 6 trees active, as you automatically lock out e.g. fire if you take ice, you can completely toggle off this Pre and take one of the other Barb Pre in that place instead. Take a look at the name of the Pre at the bottom, this is actually a select box...

[cru121]

well, barbarian still has the passive +10% run speed, so there's at least that

the best alternative i have is picking up sprint boost from second tier of warchanter tree, i.e., dip Bard 2. Bard 2 also allows you to pick up +1 evocation from the spellsinger tree. Though doing this will reduce your AP pool for sorc trees.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Spellsinger_enhancements
http://ddowiki.com/page/Warchanter_enhancements

Taking bard levels has _some_ merit on a sorc, unlocks UMD, lot of skills, and gives you fascinate option. Perhaps give it a thought if you're a sprint boost addict.

[FalseFlag]

Funny, somehow I don't think if you ran your character up to level 20, THREE times and then a change totally nullified the purpose of the Multi-Class you would be so easily dismissive.

I have, and would if the complaint was, like yours, kind of whiny and dumb. Yes, Turbine should be ashamed of themselves for not consulting you before altering your build. In the grand scheme of changes they made, the one you are complaining about is really minor, and not worthy of attention. Not when there are things like vorpal BOWS available.

[MangLord]

On the whole, I like the new enhancement trees. I prefer to stick with one class, and it's a lot easier to benefit from multiple paths now. I'm loving my pale master, and being able to dip into archmage for some choice enhancements is pretty great. The only enhancement trees I've played around with that I'm not very enthusiastic about are artificer and fighter.