pure range ranger

[shetrone]

Before u19 I had a pure arcane archer but now I am not so sure that I should even be pure ranger to 20. I like to play all bow nearly all the time so if someone has some advice about how to rebuild by ranger I would love to hear it.

[mezzorco]

Now being pure ranger is really a good choice. This is because you can take both Arcane Archer AND Deepwood Stalker, moreover DWS is now much better than before ;)

[shetrone]

Now being pure ranger is really a good choice. This is because you can take both Arcane Archer AND Deepwood Stalker, moreover DWS is now much better than before ;)

Anyone have a build that shows enhancements across AA and DS?

[Nodoze]

Now being pure ranger is really a good choice. This is because you can take both Arcane Archer AND Deepwood Stalker, moreover DWS is now much better than before ;)
Anyone have a build that shows enhancements across AA and DS?Yeah I am interested in seeing this also with any comments on the pros/cons of which Races to choose when going Pure Ranger & this route. I ask for knowledge in general but more specifically because my buddy currently has a level 24 Drow-Tempest-Fury 'Exploiter' and was thinking of going pure Ranger via LR and we just learned the Tempest cap-stone is still broken so we are looking at all options... Also one of my Alts is a very old Drow KoTC Paladin that I may LR as well.

[Posgildenlow]

What i've seen so far:

Illimited Sp: Elven ranger AA gets the very nifty Feywild tap, pretty much extends your sp pool by another 350 temporary spell points on tier 3. Even if you're not elven, with the other temporary sp stuff from AA tree and you'll be doing most quests spamming inferno shots without even resting, as long as you keep doing damage you'll have sp. Also means you can switch imbues around without really worrying about it, plus moonbow also means you can self heal for virtually no sp cost every 30 secs.

1d10 force damage is always usefull for mobs with elemental resists.

Paralizyng arrows + improv precise shot is just brutal ( 26 dc save at tier 3.) on mid levels. Alternativelly terror arrows for the PK effect, but i personally dislike the fear effect.

Metaline/aligned imbues can be usefull if you dont like carrying around extra bows/arrows. Factor in the Elemental effects and paralizyng imbue and you can pretty much just choose a couple of good DPS bows for regular mobs + your every day dispruption/banishing/smiting gear and you'll be sweet.

You'll probably want to hit the other trees as well for things like striding speed clickie, point blank range etc but as far as i can tell from a couple of hours playing AA just got 100% better. Before, you really needed good gear and planning to make it worth DPS wise, now it should be easy to make a good AA even as a first character.

That of course are just my first impressions, will have to see how things go over the next month before i can actually come up with ways to improve the build, splash and gear up. My opinion is though, now you can actually get creative on your build without instantly gimping your archer.

[saco]

Is going all out Ranger worth going skipping 10k stars from Monk? Having a secondary many shot from 10k stars was awesome and essential to any dedicated range build, is that still the case or are there comparable builds now?

[maddong]

You probably need to mix in repeaters and int damage if you aren't using 10k stars. I believe slayer arrow will triple proc with a repeater from what I read in beta. I'd probably do testing with an iconic first.

[AbyssalMage]

Is going all out Ranger worth going skipping 10k stars from Monk? Having a secondary many shot from 10k stars was awesome and essential to any dedicated range build, is that still the case or are there comparable builds now?
I thought they made 10k stars share a timer with Many Shot? At least that was what everyone posted on Lam boards. If this is not the case, I know of a lot of happy people. Then again, I haven't seen 12/6/2 Monkcher builds post U19 in game either :(

[saco]

I thought they made 10k stars share a timer with Many Shot? At least that was what everyone posted on Lam boards. If this is not the case, I know of a lot of happy people. Then again, I haven't seen 12/6/2 Monkcher builds post U19 in game either :(

That sucks. Stopped playing DDO a couple of months ago so out of the loop on bout everything and debating of coming back. Was wondering why there wasn't seeing any Moncher build threads.

[Soulfurnace]

That sucks. Stopped playing DDO a couple of months ago so out of the loop on bout everything and debating of coming back. Was wondering why there wasn't seeing any Moncher build threads.
It has always shared a timer with manyshot, in the respect that you can't use both at once. Unless my monkcher defies Turbine laws.

[Therigar]

Ranger has, maybe, too many good things to choose from. All three of the prestige trees offer things that sound like they would be lots of fun to incorporate into a character.

As I understand it, 10k and manyshot are on separate cool downs. From what I've seen elsewhere players can still use manyshot and then, before it finishes its cool down, can switch to 10k. IIRC 10k will cool down fast enough that players can get in 2 rounds before manyshot finishes its cool down. AFAIK they never could be used at the same time but only in series and this, from what I've read, remains the case.

IMO the Deepwood Stalker PrE capstone may be a good reason to remain pure ranger. All shots, regardless of range, count as point blank shots and within sneak attack range.

It seems that two races lend themselves especially well to ranger. Half-elf with rogue dilly might make maximum use of the DS capstone. Elf with the ability to use DEX for damage modifier might make a great choice for range focused rangers.

The problem is the 80 ap limitation. Capstone takes minimum 41 ap. That leaves very little to spread among the other three trees (racial, tempest, arcane archer) and forces very careful planning.

[saco]

It has always shared a timer with manyshot, in the respect that you can't use both at once. Unless my monkcher defies Turbine laws.

Yeah... brain fart. Thought by shared cooldown that they both shared a 2 min cooldown. So it's business as usual.

Now are all req feats for AA pre-U19 no longer applies? Mental toughness and ranged weapon focus? Seem like we got a few more feats free up.

[mezzorco]

Seem like we got a few more feats free up.

One more reason to stay pure.

[Teh_Troll]

Is going all out Ranger worth going skipping 10k stars from Monk?

No, it's not. Not at all. The Monkchers are BY FAR the best archers in the game. If you want to pew-pew all the time it's the only strong option.

It's dumb that they are the best archers, but it's not going to change because the Turbine devs love their Pay2Win monks.

For split or mostly melee mostly/pure ranger is still fine. But if you intend on being 100% ranged go Monkcher.

[Teh_Troll]

I thought they made 10k stars share a timer with Many Shot? At least that was what everyone posted on Lam boards. If this is not the case, I know of a lot of happy people. Then again, I haven't seen 12/6/2 Monkcher builds post U19 in game either :(

Not true.

[96th_Malice]

Not true.

Agreed

[bsquishwizzy]

Before u19 I had a pure arcane archer but now I am not so sure that I should even be pure ranger to 20. I like to play all bow nearly all the time so if someone has some advice about how to rebuild by ranger I would love to hear it.
Before the EP I was a pure Ranger AA, and now I’m guaranteed to stay that way.

Two different imbues for your arrows, a to-hit / damage boost on your bows, additional CC imbues (paralyzing to be exact), DR-breaking imbues…and so on. There is almost no reason to even melee with all of that stuff.

[Teh_Troll]

There is almost no reason to even melee with all of that stuff.

I think "doing a bunch more damage" is a good enough reason.

Though with 6000 point slayer arrows every 20 seconds I'm not sure.

[maddmatt70]

No, it's not. Not at all. The Monkchers are BY FAR the best archers in the game. If you want to pew-pew all the time it's the only strong option.

It's dumb that they are the best archers, but it's not going to change because the Turbine devs love their Pay2Win monks.

For split or mostly melee mostly/pure ranger is still fine. But if you intend on being 100% ranged go Monkcher.

Well I have a 12 fighter 6 monk 2 H-elf druid archer and pure 20 ranger halfling archer. What I like about the halfing is the sneak and deepwood sniper combination. My hide and move silently are above 100 so I can sneak through a lot of quests. Some of the Whelon quests give sneak options. I am in shadowdancer on my ranger and I get a lot of sneak damage and stuff with the combination of deepwood/shadowdancer/halfling. Playstyle is sneak through quest and then where have to fight bust out the manyshot for some burst dps. Stay away from mobs while ranging so take less damage.

[Nodoze]

I think "doing a bunch more damage" is a good enough reason.

Though with 6000 point slayer arrows every 20 seconds I'm not sure.Is that what FotW Adrenalized Arrows of Slaying look like?

[96th_Malice]

I think "doing a bunch more damage" is a good enough reason..

If I'm close enough to melee it ..... It's close enough to melee me

No thanks ... I'll stay at the back !

[Alfhild]

I think "doing a bunch more damage" is a good enough reason.

Though with 6000 point slayer arrows every 20 seconds I'm not sure.
Post U19, the introduction of various click shots has made a pure ranged ranger more viable. I cycle through a Shattermantle, Dispelling, Sniper, Slaying rotation which is relatively mana neutral with Soul Magic. I could add more named shots like Inferno or Aimed but I find using just those 4 used in conjunction with Adrenaline make for a no-time-wasted rotation. Mind you I am doing it with both Manyshot and 10K stars, so the fact remains that a Monkcher still outpaces a pure ranged Ranger.

[Meowin_W]

Returning player question: In which enhancement tree would I find 10k stars now? Seems I missed it when redoing my enhancements... :(

[Limey]

Returning player question: In which enhancement tree would I find 10k stars now? Seems I missed it when redoing my enhancements... :(

It is now a feat for which you need 6 levels of monk to take.

[Bridge_Dweller]

Mind you I am doing it with both Manyshot and 10K stars, so the fact remains that a Monkcher still outpaces a pure ranged Ranger.

I don't think anyone who knows anything about DDO would dispute that, but I believe he was refering to Pure 20 rangers who pew-pew 100% of the time.

[SiliconShadow]

Post U19, the introduction of various click shots has made a pure ranged ranger more viable. I cycle through a Shattermantle, Dispelling, Sniper, Slaying rotation which is relatively mana neutral with Soul Magic. I could add more named shots like Inferno or Aimed but I find using just those 4 used in conjunction with Adrenaline make for a no-time-wasted rotation. Mind you I am doing it with both Manyshot and 10K stars, so the fact remains that a Monkcher still outpaces a pure ranged Ranger.

Can I ask you what your monchers to hit and damage modification is on a longbow?

With the capstone being so sexy and the ability and it almost being pointless to have double shot on a moncher if the damage mods are too poor and the to hit too low for EE content ACs then I'm just going to stay pure.

Thrill of the hunter and Killer from DWS, haste boost, saves, item defence and dodge from tempest, I feel moncher may fall behind in base damage, to hit and not be gaining all that much on attack speed with 10k stars.

I'm also tempted to try out a fighter variation and try keen out instead of slayer arrow, I think the average damage over a many shot will out weigh the dps of slayer arrows when perhaps coupled with dreadnought.

15~20 x3 and 19~20 x4 with a massive base damage, advancing blows using pinion sounds appealing if it works.

Those are pros and cons of pure vs various flavour builds as I see it.

[bsquishwizzy]

I think "doing a bunch more damage" is a good enough reason.

Though with 6000 point slayer arrows every 20 seconds I'm not sure.

Yeah, but you'd disagree with me no matter what I said, based in principle.

It's your ready pen of trollish expression.

Honestly, I think this bromanc thing we have going is on the wane. It's not you...it's me...

[Bridge_Dweller]

So how much double-shot can a pure ranger put out while using a pinion (as opposed to a weaker bow that has more double-shot built in)? Maybe it is possible to get more arrows in the air in a two minute period of time.

Monkcher have other stuff going for them: bonus feats, improved evasion, faster run speed, earth stance, etc . . . that make the character strong. it's not just 10k Stars it's the power that comes from a pay to play class.

[Alfhild]

So how much double-shot can a pure ranger put out while using a pinion (as opposed to a weaker bow that has more double-shot built in)? Maybe it is possible to get more arrows in the air in a two minute period of time.

The problem with Doubleshot as a whole is that everytime you use 10K Stars or Manyshot, you invoke a -100 Doubleshot debuff which extends well beyond your use of those two skills. For Manyshot it's 70 secs, for 10K it's 45 secs. So even if a pure Ranger were to get +50% doubleshot, it would only be operable for the last 50 seconds of every 2 minute period.

[Alfhild]

Can I ask you what your monchers to hit and damage modification is on a longbow?[quote]
Not in game at the moment but realize that there is going to be very little difference in to hit between a monkcher and a pure ranger. Bow to hit is still DEX based and though a pure Ranger has higher BAB, there are plenty of sources of to hit (e.g. Elf Racial tree) to render the point moot. In terms of Damage, yes you will have better damage if STR based than a DEX based Monkcher. But a STR based Monkcher will have better damage than a DEX based Ranger. If both STR based or both DEX based, the damage is relatively equal.
[quote]
With the capstone being so sexy and the ability and it almost being pointless to have double shot on a moncher if the damage mods are too poor and the to hit too low for EE content ACs then I'm just going to stay pure.
Are you referring to the AA Ranger capstone? If so, I consider it far from sexy. In fact I consider it a slap in the face to L20 AA rangers since doubleshot only works for 50secs out of 120 the moment the Ranger hits Manyshot. The reason I consider doubleshot pointless on a Monkcher is that it only works for 15 seconds every two minutes.



Thrill of the hunter and Killer from DWS, haste boost, saves, item defence and dodge from tempest,
6 APs in Thrill of the hunt gives +3 Damage on mobs under 35% health. So essentially it gives an overall +1 damage against that mob, and lingers a bit for the next mob.
Killer gives bonuses to doubleshot which are rendered useless for 70second out of every 120 seconds since you will be using Manyshot, Since most of your kills will come during Manyshot, Killer's usefulness is even less in a ranged context.
No comment on item defence .
Monkchers get dodge bonus and cap raises and Reflex saves as well as Tempest.
Monkchers with no fighter levels can get 30% Damage boost from DWS; those with fighter can get the cheaper Haste boost.

I feel moncher may fall behind in base damage, to hit and not be gaining all that much on attack speed with 10k stars.
huge. As if said, very little difference in damage between the two if using the same damage source, be it DEX or STR. As for ranged attack speed, I think you underestimate the rate of fire on a monkcher and overestimate the usefulness of doubleshot on a ranger.



I'm also tempted to try out a fighter variation and try keen out instead of slayer arrow, I think the average damage over a many shot will out weigh the dps of slayer arrows when perhaps coupled with dreadnought. Adrenalined Manyshot in FoTW with Slayer arrows and +[w]Sniper, Dispelling and Shatter shots coupled with high STR is still going to blow it out of the water.



Those are pros and cons of pure vs various flavour builds as I see it.
I agree. Where we disagree is with doubleshot which due to current design considerations is a con in more than one sense of the word.

[Nodoze]

Great discussion. It would be good to see an actual U19 Pure Range Ranger build with stats, enhancements, etc as well as a link to U19 Monkcher. It would be nice to see/compare Dex vs Str version to compare damage as well as pros/cons (Reflex saves, etc).

[Alfhild]

Great discussion. It would be good to see an actual U19 Pure Range Ranger build with stats, enhancements, etc as well as a link to U19 Monkcher. It would be nice to see/compare Dex vs Str version to compare damage as well as pros/cons (Reflex saves, etc).
I am still tinkering with my own build at the moment and would be glad to post it once the those fine folks working on the new rjcyberware planner get it published. I think the lack of a planner incorporating U19 is the reason you are seeing hardly any builds being posted at the moment.

[Bridge_Dweller]

The problem with Doubleshot as a whole is that everytime you use 10K Stars or Manyshot, you invoke a -100 Doubleshot debuff which extends well beyond your use of those two skills. For Manyshot it's 70 secs, for 10K it's 45 secs. So even if a pure Ranger were to get +50% doubleshot, it would only be operable for the last 50 seconds of every 2 minute period.

Well that's insanely stupid.

[Alfhild]

Well that's insanely stupid.
QFT
I really am astounded that more pure AA Rangers are up in arms, err bows, about this. Considering the T4 and T5 AA cores are worthless over 50% of time (assuming the Ranger religiously uses Manyshot as they should) it really calls into question spending APs on them or on Killer from the DWS tree. You are going to easily build killer up to 4 stacks during Manyshot but will get no benefit from them since it will be difficult to maintain those stacks for the 50 seconds of single shots that the debuff enforces

Speaking as a Monkcher,I get that they need to limit the DPS on monkchers by not giving it any further buffage, but that could have easily been accomplished by setting the 10K star doubleshot debuff to 60 seconds and limiting the Manyshot debuff to 20 secs.

[maddmatt70]

The problem with Doubleshot as a whole is that everytime you use 10K Stars or Manyshot, you invoke a -100 Doubleshot debuff which extends well beyond your use of those two skills. For Manyshot it's 70 secs, for 10K it's 45 secs. So even if a pure Ranger were to get +50% doubleshot, it would only be operable for the last 50 seconds of every 2 minute period.

Hmm I am not sure these numbers are accurate, but I can not find the actual numbers. 10k stars is actual a longer period then manyshot because 10k stars is 30 seconds and manyshot is 20 seconds and the doubleshot cooldown for both was the same I thought.

[Alfhild]

Hmm I am not sure these numbers are accurate, but I can not find the actual numbers. 10k stars is actual a longer period then manyshot because 10k stars is 30 seconds and manyshot is 20 seconds and the doubleshot cooldown for both was the same I thought.
Check your 10K stars and Manyshot tooltips.

[maddmatt70]

Check your 10K stars and Manyshot tooltips.

Hmm wonder if this got changed since Lammania.

Well the fact is rangers have a higher base damage then a monkcher (on favored enemies) and now with doubleshot and archer's focus not working while 10k stars happens the ranged damage is closer between a monkcher and ranger. Ranged ranger also does not have to worry about wisdom like a 10k stars archer.

Like I said in an earlier post there are some other benefits to being a ranger which maybe not be enough to make up the difference in damage, but nonetheless. Like I said stealth on a pure ranger is very intriguing and the capstone for deepwood sniper is interesting as well as some of the higher level core abilities.

I argued on lammania for more doubleshot % and we may see that in the future with higher % doubleshot items which get a ranged ranger to 100% doubleshot.

[96th_Malice]

After a couple days of messing around with a few of my builds ..... The pure ranger AA is great and for sure an improvement from 2 weeks ago

However ...

The 10k stars monkcher is now a whole lot of fun to play. I took enough outta the eleven tree to get grace ... Enough outta the AA tree to get the tier 3 paralyzers ... And then took as much as I possibly could to benefit bow use outta deep wood sniper.

On the training dummy The monk is seeing bigger numbers per arrow than the pure archer .... Not to mention way better AC

Fun build for sure.

[Nodoze]

After a couple days of messing around with a few of my builds ..... The pure ranger AA is great and for sure an improvement from 2 weeks ago

However ...

The 10k stars monkcher is now a whole lot of fun to play. I took enough outta the eleven tree to get grace ... Enough outta the AA tree to get the tier 3 paralyzers ... And then took as much as I possibly could to benefit bow use outta deep wood sniper.

On the training dummy The monk is seeing bigger numbers per arrow than the pure archer .... Not to mention way better AC

Fun build for sure.Very glad to hear. It would be cool if you uploaded screenshots of your Trees for others as well as your class/stat breakdowns...

[schelsullivan]

Is that what FotW Adrenalized Arrows of Slaying look like?

Yes thats the kind of numbers you get with Adrenaline + Slayer. I get 7 Adrenalines per rest by default, but then you add FoTW tier 4 Fury Eternal which procs extra Adrenalines on vorpal rolls and you get to use many more times than 7.

Note wiki says "Fury Eternal: Passive Bonus: +1 Adrenaline max use. Whenever you land a Vorpal Strike on a melee attack, 33% chance to regain 1 Adrenaline use."

It says melee attacks but im getting extra adrenalines with ranged attacks too. Sometimes im getting and extra 2-4 adrenalines while manyshooting.

[Nodoze]

Yes thats the kind of numbers you get with Adrenaline + Slayer. I get 7 Adrenalines per rest by default, but then you add FoTW tier 4 Fury Eternal which procs extra Adrenalines on vorpal rolls and you get to use many more times than 7.

Note wiki says "Fury Eternal: Passive Bonus: +1 Adrenaline max use. Whenever you land a Vorpal Strike on a melee attack, 33% chance to regain 1 Adrenaline use."

It says melee attacks but im getting extra adrenalines with ranged attacks too. Sometimes im getting and extra 2-4 adrenalines while manyshooting.Cool & thanks for feedback. I have played on a FotW-THF-20Barbarian & a FotW-TWF-18Ranger/1rogue/1monk and familiar with regenerating Adrenaline charges but haven't personally done much ranged so wasn't sure... I suspected that was the case but wanted to verify to be sure for myself and others reading the thread (from a clarity standpoint) so really appreciate you confirming.

[Nodoze]

I did some testing with the imbues and for Bosses not immune to fire it looks like Inferno Shot counters stack with the counters given by crits with the enhancement Improved Elemental Arrows (Fire). Not sure how much 20d6 every 2 seconds helps with DPS nor whether it is affected by spell power but every crit helps add a stack or extend the 20d6 of fire damage every 2 seconds for mobs not immune to fire...

Does 20d6/2secs only add ~35 (3.5x20/2)to DPS?

Does anyone know if Spell Power &/or Meta-Magics affect any of the elemental or special Ranger shots ?

[schelsullivan]

Hey you guys in this thread talking about manyshot (and 10kstars) negating Doubleshot feat/enhancements check out this thread here.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423623-Doubleshot-is-it-really-worth-it

Ive done some quick testing (more to come) and think your wrong, Im getting doubleshot procs during and directly after manyshot. Im pure ranger so cant say anything about how this affect the monkcher toons.

BTW, havent seen any monkcher archers getting more kills that my pure ranger since update. Probably havent grouped with the right one yet :)

[jskinner937]

Hmm wonder if this got changed since Lammania.

Well the fact is rangers have a higher base damage then a monkcher (on favored enemies) and now with doubleshot and archer's focus not working while 10k stars happens the ranged damage is closer between a monkcher and ranger. Ranged ranger also does not have to worry about wisdom like a 10k stars archer.

Like I said in an earlier post there are some other benefits to being a ranger which maybe not be enough to make up the difference in damage, but nonetheless. Like I said stealth on a pure ranger is very intriguing and the capstone for deepwood sniper is interesting as well as some of the higher level core abilities.

I argued on lammania for more doubleshot % and we may see that in the future with higher % doubleshot items which get a ranged ranger to 100% doubleshot.

And monkchers do not need to worry about dexterity either since they get wisdom to hit...moot point. You could argue that combat archery may be beneficial if it ever worked, but even so, monkchers still have access to imp martial arts as well.

[Carpone]

And monkchers do not need to worry about dexterity either since they get wisdom to hit...moot point. You could argue that combat archery may be beneficial if it ever worked, but even so, monkchers still have access to imp martial arts as well.
Have you confirmed that Improved Martial Arts applies to bows/ranged damage? Pre-U19 it did not.

[saco]

Have you confirmed that Improved Martial Arts applies to bows/ranged damage? Pre-U19 it did not.

Can't say for imp martial art but A Dance of Flowers or whatever it was called in the Granmaster ED that increased the [W] of ki weapons by 1.5 does affect bows.

[goodspeed]

Is going all out Ranger worth going skipping 10k stars from Monk? Having a secondary many shot from 10k stars was awesome and essential to any dedicated range build, is that still the case or are there comparable builds now?

If that bow ain't going back into nothingness being replaced by a pair of something, then your losing a great deal from not having 10k stars. Even with the new doubleshot thing, 10k would trump it in being up at a constant as well as the affirmed modifier instead of a 50% chance to fire 2 arrows from double.

As for the layout, im unsure if 12 monk is still the best split. Havn't looked into the new feats and stuff, but the main thing is earth stance. One, your gettn lots of prr. And 2, crit multi. Improved evade is pretty **** nice to.

I do know this, 2 fighter is a good ending. Action boosts, (30%) haste boost, hell even +3 to combat dc's if all hell breaks loose and ya gotta duke it out, or do a stun switch unload combo. But ya, if ur aiming for dedicated near never put the bow down (your destiny is fotw ftw btw) then 10k is for you.

Hell even if they gave an unending full time 100% doubleshot buff to a ranger, 10k would still match it if not overcome. Well unless the person slacked off on the wis. But hell with the gear and stats out now...

[maddmatt70]

I could not help but notice that none of these monkchers post their damage per shot which is less then rangers fyi on favored and in general so even if the monkchers have more shots they do less damage per shot so this is not as big a difference as they all are making it seem.

[saco]

I could not help but notice that none of these monkchers post their damage per shot which is less then rangers fyi on favored and in general so even if the monkchers have more shots they do less damage per shot so this is not as big a difference as they all are making it seem.

Sure they might have lesser numbers but the extra shots from 10k stars is an overall avg of 100-125% extra shots. Not to mention with 10k stars you get a whole lot more procs for all you +x[W] die abilities and Slaying Arrow. Yeah my dmg might be a bit less but I get a whole bunch more procs which is the trade off and likely more that make up for are my impressions. Problem with favored enemy is that there is only a limited amount of FE you can select and to make it really effective you have to give up Slaying Arrow which I doubt most archers will give up due to the synergy it has with FotW.

You get 100-125% dps boost by going 6 monk and what do you get with going pure ranger? +4 more dmg on FE and an additional 2 FEs? A 15% Doubleshot that is not WAI likely as the debuff is not being applied to manyshot and 10k stars last I heard? FOM? Bout 4 dmg gained for not investing Wis? None of that looks appealing to give up to a 100+% overall dmg gain from 10k stars.

The gap is certainly a whole lot closer but a 100% ranged pew pew the Moncher still pulls ahead imo due to the synergy that the extra 10k star procs has with all the shots and just the overall dps increase from 10k stars. And the benefits of staying Ranger is incredibly underwhelming.

Personally I hate the Moncher as I think having to go 6 monk to be the best optimal archer is completely Fing ********, but it is what it is. AA or DWS needs some serious buff or a feat that will be comparable to the 10k stars. But as some posters say "Turbine loves their P2W Monk class."

[sephiroth1084]

As someone who plays a monkcher, I have to say that I couldn't imagine going pure ranger and giving up 10K Stars. The extra shots account for quite a bit of damage, but, and more importantly, they count for more CROWD CONTROL. Even before we got Paralyzing Arrows, dedicated archers were best when combining CC effects with Manyshot/10K Stars and Improved Precise Shot, and I'll tell you that firing single arrows through a group is no where near as effective as doing so with one of the two multi-shot abilities.

On a similar note, I really don't think you need to worry about Paralyzing tiers 2 and 3. First, they are rather expensive (3 AP per tier, thanks to requiring the 2 AP per tier Terror Arrows), and second, when you're loosing so many arrows at a time, stuff is going to be rolling 1s often enough, and on EE, anyway, the difference between a DC 19 Will save and a DC 28 Will save is 0 when casters with an enchantment DC in the 50s is failing to hold mobs with some regularity. And trust me that Paralyzing Arrows are definitely useful in EE.

If you want to talk about DPS, though, the little bit of extra damage per shot gained from going pure ranger just doesn't stack up against the extra shots from 10K Stars, even before you start adding in things like Slayer Arrows and Adrenaline.