U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver

[Carpone]

Summary:
Fantastic THF damage
Decent self-healing melee
Superb damage avoidance
Good damage mitigation

There are two variations of this build, based on the past life you prefer. The efficacy of the build does not change with your choice:

Fighter past life: 9 Fighter/9 Monk/2 Druid
Monk past life: 10 Monk/8 Fighter/2 Druid

Here's the benefit breakdown:
Fighter 8: Kensei increased crit range, any melee weapon as a ki weapon
Monk 9: 15% movement speed, Improved Evasion, access to Ninja Spy and Shintao enhancements
Druid 2: 5-min Ram's Might, Magical Training feat, access to Empower Healing Spell feat, access to Nature's Warrior enhancements

I personally want a monk past life, so here's the breakdown for that version:

Human 10 Monk/8 Fighter/2 Druid:
1 Monk 1 (Human: Dodge, Monk: Power Attack, Level: Cleave)
Skills: Balance 4, Concentration 2, Swim 1, Tumble 1, Spot 1, Move Silently 1, Heal 2, UMD 1
2 Monk 2 (Monk: THF)
Skills: Balance 1, UMD 1.5
3 Druid 1 (Level: Mobility)
Skills: Heal 4
4 Monk 3
Skills: Balance 2, UMD 0.5, Heal 0.5
5 Monk 4
Skills: Balance 1, Concentration 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 0.5
6 Monk 5 (Level: Weapon Focus)
Skills: Balance 1, Concentration 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 0.5
7 Monk 6 (Monk: Deflect Arrows)
Skills: Balance 1, Concentration 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 1
8 Monk 7
Skills: Balance 1, Concentration 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 1
9 Monk 8 (Level: Great Cleave)
Skills: Balance 1, Concentration 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 1
10 Fighter 1 (Fighter: ITHF)
Skills: Jump 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 0.5
11 Fighter 2 (Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing)
Skills: Balance 0.5, UMD 0.5, Heal 0.5
12 Fighter 3 (Level: Master of Forms)
Skills: UMD 0.5, Heal 1
13 Fighter 4 (Fighter: Weapon Specialization)
Skills: UMD 0.5, Heal 1
14 Fighter 5
Skills: UMD 0.5, Heal 1
15 Fighter 6 (Fighter: GTHF, Level: Empower Healing Spell)
Skills: Balance 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 0.5
16 Fighter 7
Skills: Balance 0.5, UMD 1, Heal 0.5
17 Fighter 8 (Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus)
Skills: Balance 1, UMD 0.5, Heal 0.5
18 Monk 9 (Level: Grandmaster of Forms)
Skills: Balance 5, UMD 0.5
19 Druid 2
Skills: Heal 6
20 Monk 10 <-- Swap for Fighter if you want a Fighter past life
Skills: Heal 1, Balance 3, UMD 0.5
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Toughness
26 ED: Perfect THF
27 Epic Damage Reduction
28 ED: Toughness

Kensei (33)
1 Kensei Focus
6 Extra Action Boost III
2 Kensei Weapon Specialization I
1 Spiritual Bond
1 Strike With No Thought
3 Haste Boost III
2 Kensei Weapon Specialization II
6 Improved Dodge III
2 Weapon Meditation I
1 Shattering Strike I
2 Kensei Weapon Specialization III
2 Kensei Weapon Specialization IV
1 Reed in the Wind (filler)
1 Keen Edge
1 Deadly Strike
1 One with The Blade

Ninja Spy (11)
1 Ninja Training I
3 Acrobatic III
2 Sneak Attack Training I
1 Ninja Training II
2 Fists of Iron
1 Agility I
1 Shadow Veil

Shintao (11)
1 Bastion of Purity
2 Ki Shout (filler)
2 Exemplar II (filler)
1 Protection from Tainted Creatures
4 Iron Skin II
1 Iron Hand

Human (17)
1 Damage Boost
2 Constitution
2 Improved Recovery I
1 Dont Count Me Out I
4 Action Surge: Constitution II
2 Improved Recovery II
1 Defense Boost
2 Strength
2 Improved Recovery III

Nature's Warrior (8)
1 Nature's Warrior
3 Athletic III (filler)
1 Shifting Rake I (filler)
3 Action Boost: Double Strike

Legendary Dreadnought
1: Strength (2), Extra Action Boost II (2)
2: Strength (2), Improved Power Attack (2), Momentum Swing (3)
3: Haste Boost III (3), Lay Waste (2)
4: None
5: Advancing Blows (2), Devastating Critical (2)
6: Master's Blitz (2), Headman's Chop (2)

Twists:
Standing with Stone
A Dance with Flowers
Rejuvenation Cocoon

PRR:
10 Epic Damage Reduction feat
15 Artifact (Planar Prowess)
16 Enhancement (augment)
15 Grandmaster Earth stance
15 Standing in Stone
10 Iron Skin
-----
81 PRR = 36.2% damage reduction
10 Human: Defense Boost
03 Don't Count Me Out I (below 50% HP)
-----
94 PRR = 39.7% damage reduction (situational)

Dodge:
08 item
06 Monk
03 Dodge feat
02 Mobility feat
03 Acrobatic (Ninja Spy)
03 Improved Dodge (Kensei)
----
25% Dodge

Healing Amp:
30% Human
05% Paladin past life
15% Shintao
30% Gear
10% Ship
----
= 224% Healing Amp

Positive Spell Power:
114 Ruby of Devotion augment
075 Empower Heal Spell
046 Heal skill
024 Implement bonus
030 Shintao
------
289
024 (Delta for new ML28 138 Ruby of Devotion augment)
015 Heal skill augment
-----
328 Positive Spell Power for Rejuv Cocoon with U19 augments

Doublestrike:
03 Artifact (Flawless Black Dragon set)
06 Item (Clever)
01 Strike with No Thought (Kensei)
---
10% Doublestrike (passive)

This build has 10 uses of LD 30% Haste Boost, Kensei 30% Haste Boost and Nature's Warrior 30% Double Strike. That's 10 continuous minutes of +30% additional damage, which is plenty of go-go juice between shrines.

Gear:
Weapon: Clever, Hewer of Suffering (Red Augment: 114 Positive Spell Power)
Quiver: EE Quiver of Poison
Trinket: Planar Focus of Prowess of +3 STR
Belt: EE Girdle of Giants' Brawn (green: 35 HP, yellow: +2 insightful CON)
Bracer: 30% healing amp of Superior Parrying
Gloves: EE Nether Grasps
Chest: Black Dragon (blue: Good Luck)
Hat: EE Black Dragon +8 CON (green: 14 PRR, yellow: +1 exceptional all stats)
Goggles: EE Dream Visor (yellow: 20 Vitality)
Back: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf
Feet: Kundarak Delving Boots (needed when soloing, or no FoM in a group)
Neck: EE Jorgundal's Collar (Green: <empty>, Yellow: Draconic Soul Gem)
Ring1: EE Ring of the Djinn
Ring2: Ancient Band (heavy fort, +7 resist)

The above is the pre-U19 gear list. With U19 gear that's been revealed so far, these are possible changes:

Ring2: EE Consuming Darkness (Seeker 12, Combat Mastery +5, Green Slot: Heavy Fort)
Bracer: EE Bracers of Twisting Shade (+7 resist, +5 exceptional Seeker, Blurry)
Gloves: PDK (30% healing amp, +2 Insightful CON)
Belt: Skullduggery Kit (10% Dodge permutation, Green Slot: 35 HP)
Back: EE Jeweled Cloak (Green Slot: ??, Yellow Slot: +8 STR)

Net change: +2% Dodge, +10 all elemental resists, +green slot, +6 balance, 25 spell absorb, +2 seeker, +5 Combat Mastery, -4 Insightful Saves, -Diversion, -2 Profane STR. The +2% Dodge allows swapping Mobility feat for Toughness, or reallocating Ninja Spy AP to increase Dodge cap by 2%.

Stats:
STR 18 (16 points) + 5 tome + 8 item + 3 insightful + 1 exceptional + 2 yugo + 2 ship + 6 level ups + 2 ED + 2 Ram's Might + 1 human + 2 Profane = 52
DEX 14 (6 points) + 4 tome + 1 exceptional + 2 ship - 2 stance = 19
CON 17 (13 points) + 4 tome + 8 item + 2 insightful + 1 exceptional + 4 stance + 2 ship + 2 yugo + 1 racial + 1 level up + 2 Action Surge = 44
INT 8 + 4 tome + 1 exceptional + 2 ship = 15
WIS 9 (1 points) + 4 tome + 1 exceptional + 2 ship = 16
CHA 8 + 4 tome + 1 exceptional + 2 ship = 15

Note: Stats are calculated without Rage effects. There's no room to twist Primal Scream, and potions have too short of a duration for my taste. So if you have a source of Rage from someone else in the group, consider it a bonus instead of a must have.

Weapon Profile: Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering
045 3.0[2d8] base + 1.5 A Dance with Flowers + 0.5 Improved Power Attack
031 STR bonus
010 Power Attack
005 Visor
004 Conflux
006 Kensei
008 Enchantment
002 Ram's Might
002 Weapon Specialization
----
113 Average base damage
005 Advancing Blows
003 Battle Meditation (3 Kensei Core Abilities)
-----
121 average base damage (situational)
Crit Profile: 17-18/x3, 19-20/x7

HP:
025 Heroic Durability
015 Improved Heroic Durability
010 Draconic Vitality
080 Monk 10
080 Fighter 8
016 Druid 2
080 Epic
020 Vitality item
035 False Life item
060 Toughness feat x2
050 Legendary Dreadnaught
020 Yugoloth HP portion
476 +17 CON bonus
008 Nature's Warrior
----
975
020 Barbarian Past Life x2 (optional)
----
995

F/R/W Saves:
03/00/03 Druid 2
07/07/07 Monk 10
06/02/02 Fighter 8
04/04/04 Epic 8
17/04/03 CON/DEX/WIS bonus
01/01/01 Competence (Eldritch Ritual)
04/04/04 Morale (Greater Heroism)
02/02/02 Luck (Augment)
04/04/04 Insightful (Superior Parrying)
07/07/07 Resistance (augment)
01/01/01 Sacred (Blessing of the Three Dragons)
00/01/00 Agility (Ninja Spy)
00/00/-4 Yugoloth STR drawback
-----------
54/37/34
00/00/02 Monk Still Mind (vs. enchantments)
-----------
54/37/36 (circumstantial)

With Improved Evasion, just accept that you're going to always take half-damage from spell damage.

Kundarak Delving Boots address the biggest pitfall against casters: Hold Person. You're still susceptible to Command, but there's not alot of that in Shadowfell content.

Skills:
45 Balance = 23 ranks + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 4 DEX bonus + 3 Acrobatic + 3 Athletic

40 Concentration = 7 Ranks + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 17 CON bonus + 1 Agility

46 Heal = 23 ranks + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 3 WIS bonus + 3 tome + 2 Exemplar

43 Jump = 1 rank + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 21 STR bonus + 3 Acrobatic + 3 Athletic

30 Move Silently = 1 ranks + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 4 DEX bonus + 5 Competence (boots) + 5 Enhancement (Pass Without Trace)

51 Swim = 1 rank + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 21 STR bonus + 3 Athletic + 11 Enhancement (Merfolk's Blessing)

39 Spot = 1 rank + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 3 WIS bonus + 20 item

23 Tumble = 1 rank + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 4 DEX bonus + 3 Acrobatic

28 UMD = 11 ranks + 8 epic + 4 Morale (Greater Heroism) + 2 Luck (Augment) + 1 Profane (Elite Spider Cult Mask) + 2 CHA bonus

Feedback welcome.

[Deathdefy]

1) That's a lot of damage.


Summary:
Kundarak Delving Boots address the biggest pitfall against casters: Hold Person. You're still susceptible to Command, but there's not alot of that in Shadowfell content.

2) Doesn't a boring ol' prot from evil clickie (5 mins a pop/charge now) stop command?

[Ellihor]

So, now thf chain beter than manyshot again?

[MagicalDad]

Human 10 Monk/8 Fighter/2 Druid:

... awesome build removed for space ...


So, I am liking all this does, but ... Instead of starting with a 36pt build with +5 tomes, I'm looking at a 34 pt Dwarf with +4 physical tomes and +3 mental tomes and single Barbarian PL. His current Stalwart build is terrible. So, can I still attempt this build? I would be down:

* two stat points (easy to drop 1 STR if needed),
* 1 feat (is Deflect Arrows really needed? I can use that slot for something I need)
* 1 skill point / level (is Heal *that* essential? I love the idea of decent UMD, but doing w/o it right now ... where is my Intimidate?)

I am also thinking I would miss tactical feats - I currently have Imp Sunder, Stunning Blow and Imp. Trip. I guess dead crowds are pretty well controlled, but concerned about incoming damage.

I love the idea of your build, just want to see what I could give up to work in my personal preferences.

[Carpone]

So, I am liking all this does, but ... Instead of starting with a 36pt build with +5 tomes, I'm looking at a 34 pt Dwarf with +4 physical tomes and +3 mental tomes and single Barbarian PL. His current Stalwart build is terrible. So, can I still attempt this build? I would be down:

* two stat points (easy to drop 1 STR if needed),
* 1 feat (is Deflect Arrows really needed? I can use that slot for something I need)
* 1 skill point / level (is Heal *that* essential? I love the idea of decent UMD, but doing w/o it right now ... where is my Intimidate?)

I am also thinking I would miss tactical feats - I currently have Imp Sunder, Stunning Blow and Imp. Trip. I guess dead crowds are pretty well controlled, but concerned about incoming damage.

I love the idea of your build, just want to see what I could give up to work in my personal preferences.
Dropping STR isn't a huge deal for this build, which is why I don't calculate in Rage effects like Primal Scream. The power is in the 17-18/x3 and 19-20/x7 crit profile, along with +19 seeker and large [W].

This archetype is not optimal for tactics feats because it doesn't focus on STR. I considered a Stunning Blow version of this build, but the math doesn't support it even with 3 Fighter past lives.

Deflect Arrows is not "essential" but it's the best damage avoidance next to Dodge though. EE archers hit for 60 before damage reduction.

Positive Spell Power is absolutely essential, so don't skimp on Heal. This build is self healable with Rejuv Cocoon because of the stacking healing amp and the Positive Spell Power. I personally see no reason for Intimidate in the current content. You'll see much less healing benefit on a Dwarf, unless you also slot 20% healing amp somewhere in your gear setup. I don't know where you'd put it though. If there was an easy place to slot it, I would have already included it.

[maddmatt70]

Huge fan of the rings at the end of the Stormhorns series. One ring has +24 physical resistance and the other has the thunderstruck property which is on the necklace in the FOT raid. Also seen +9 competence bonus to damage items which seem like a must have somewhere. Tough to figure out how it all fits together but definitely some gear upgrading going to happen. Probably a good idea to be geared up well for the raid in the winter. Breaking the Ranks and the final quest in the Stormhorns on EE are both toughies so good idea for those for fun.

[mezzorco]

Can you explain your 19-20 x7?
Base is x3, you get 1 from headman's chop -> x4
Then?

[Cetus]

Can you explain your 19-20 x7?
Base is x3, you get 1 from headman's chop -> x4
Then?

base 3

1 devastating crit

1 hedamans

1 overwhelming

1 earth stance

[Carpone]

I'll revisit possible U19 upgrade gear in the OP soon. Right now I'm getting a feel for what attributes are available in each slot, and how to optimize them.


Huge fan of the rings at the end of the Stormhorns series. One ring has +24 physical resistance and the other has the thunderstruck property which is on the necklace in the FOT raid.
The Guardian's Ring is itemized well: 24 PRR, 8 STR, Yellow slot. I don't know that it deserves a spot in this build though. Bumping passive damage reduction from 36.2% (81 PRR) to 38.4% (89 PRR) is a fairly small net change (~7 damage less from a 300 point melee hit).

The Skirmisher's Ring is good, but I'd be reluctant to ditch the 15 DR/Lawful from EE Ring of the Djinn. Subtracting 15 DR after damage reduction is solid, and with the number of mobs casting Eladar's Electric Surge the increased resistance and absorb is useful. On EE Lines of Supply for example, a 2 stack of Eladar's was ticking for 7-10 with the ring on.

As for Competence damage, EE Dream Visor can be replaced with Deadly of Resistance Goggles with an aug slot (Accuracy isn't needed for this build). The level 28 ED Toughness feat can be swapped out for Holy Strike to provide Ghost Touch.

[Emerge2012]

I'm wondering about the druid doublestrike boost. Does that stack with others? If not then I'm think that's quite a few AP's dropped into a tree for something not so useful. Beguile on the other hand is a must have, as are at least 1 of the monk elemental attacks with 2 (fist of iron and eagle claw) being ideal since they are both very useful and very strong.

I'm currently doing something similar but went 12fighter/6monk/2druid for the 2 extra feats, 8 extra str, and the things mentioned above.

[Carpone]

I'm wondering about the druid doublestrike boost. Does that stack with others? If not then I'm think that's quite a few AP's dropped into a tree for something not so useful. Beguile on the other hand is a must have, as are at least 1 of the monk elemental attacks with 2 (fist of iron and eagle claw) being ideal since they are both very useful and very strong.

I'm currently doing something similar but went 12fighter/6monk/2druid for the 2 extra feats, 8 extra str, and the things mentioned above.
Druid Doublestrike is an Action Boost and interacts with other Action Boosts as you'd expect.

Beguile is OP and will be nerfed Real Soon Now.

Fists of Iron is solid but this build already has plenty of buttons to press. Your attention is going to be on Lay Waste and Momentum Swing, and you'll forget Fists of Iron and the tier 4 Earth strike.

[Emerge2012]

Druid Doublestrike is an Action Boost and interacts with other Action Boosts as you'd expect.

Beguile is OP and will be nerfed Real Soon Now.

Fists of Iron is solid but this build already has plenty of buttons to press. Your attention is going to be on Lay Waste and Momentum Swing, and you'll forget Fists of Iron and the tier 4 Earth strike.

Definitely agree on the large number of clicks for the abilities. In fact I just recently dropped Whirlwind Attack from my version. Cleave, Great Cleave, Momentum Swing (twisted in), and a couple Ki hits are enough. Also agree on Beguile - it's waaaaay op.

Forgot to mention that mine will be in FOTW for the auto knockdown adrenalin AOE's. In the end though if the druid doublestrike boost has to be used by itself then I don't know if it's worth so many points. Maybe better spent in Henshin for some Qstaff damage when undead bashing?

[ChaosEmperorDragon]

I only play the worst builds possible so I won't be coming anywhere near this one. I'm impressed by how well it fits together

[Ziindarax]

Negative Levels. High-level caster mobs seem to love to resort to spamming negative levels, and if you don't have a means of Deathwarding yourself, you're pretty screwed. Any vendors that sell DW scrolls?

[Drwaz99]

Negative Levels. High-level caster mobs seem to love to resort to spamming negative levels, and if you don't have a means of Deathwarding yourself, you're pretty screwed. Any vendors that sell DW scrolls?

No but the Cleric trade-in in Eveningstar does give you 20 min lvl 20 DW potions for one cleric commendation. You can also carry around several pairs of Flesh Render Goggles from Tangleroot.

[kaobang]

what about going toward whirlwind attack instead of all the weapon focus and weapon spe feats ?

[unbongwah]

what about going toward whirlwind attack instead of all the weapon focus and weapon spe feats ?
First off, you need the WF/WS chain in order to pick up One w/Blade; GWF pre-req means a min. of 8 ftr lvls. And second, AFAIK Whirlwind still sucks. :(

[Carpone]

First off, you need the WF/WS chain in order to pick up One w/Blade; GWF pre-req means a min. of 8 ftr lvls. And second, AFAIK Whirlwind still sucks. :(
Whirlwind still has a terribly slow animation.

[Azaghan]

Would it be too crazy to drop prowess set and go with eSoS?

15 less PRR is a lot I know, but PRR still remains high compared to other builds
(24 ring +30 stance with twist +10 enh +10 epic = 74)

I could slot idol of fortune for trinket for 8% dodge , H. fort, luck +3 and yellow slot.

Your opinion?

One more question where do you fit in exceptional fort for EE??

[Carpone]

Would it be too crazy to drop prowess set and go with eSoS?

15 less PRR is a lot I know, but PRR still remains high compared to other builds
(24 ring +30 stance with twist +10 enh +10 epic = 74)

I could slot idol of fortune for trinket for 8% dodge , H. fort, luck +3 and yellow slot.

Your opinion?

One more question where do you fit in exceptional fort for EE??
Cleaver > eSoS. Limbchopper is awesome. Plus you'd have to wear eClaw set to make up the lost artifact hit/dmg. It's not terrible, but it's not optimal.

I don't wear exceptional Fortification for EE. The avoidance and mitigation are good enough.

[Oxarhamar]

Summary:Crit Profile: 17-18/x3, 19-20/x7
Feedback welcome.

I'm a little confused by the Crit profile

Clever 20/x3
IPC 19-20
Keen edge +1 competence is this stacking with IPC now instead of just adding +1 as Kensii III was prior to U19

if so then woot

[Blue_wizards]

I am using a very similar build and it rocks.

IMO taking a third level of druid adds a lot. Fatal harrier is pretty awesome and requires 3 levels of druid. It has great synergy with this build (that can stay perma haste/double strike boosted while in LD) for a number of reasons:
15% from haste, 30 from haste boost, 25 from fice stacks of fatal harrier = extra 70% attack speed = Fun!
Gives you another edge when starting up a blitz in a group that will not co opertare/assist or communicate.
Natures warrior has nice stuff to take so you are not taking any fillers just to get to third tier access.

Regarding ed to take I am a strong advocate of LD. The action hero innate which eliminates the cooldown on your endless boosts is just to great not to have as well as the 50% extra damage on helpless foes.
Built for blitzing as well. You can fight for your kills if you have no choise but also have the dps and survivability to break off from the party to take on a group of mobs solo and come back to the party with a good few stacks of masters blitz.

Regarding twists, I take them with regard to the party composition. If there are shiradi's/enchanters or even monkchers I know that effectivly use pin/otto's whistler I prefer to take Sense Weakness, other wise I take Standing with Stone. Rejuv cocoon and dance of flowers are always there.

[Carpone]

Fatal Harrier does not stack with the Haste spell or Speed effects.

[Crann]

Fatal Harrier does not stack with the Haste spell or Speed effects.

I have confirmed that it doesn't stack based on the attack speed indicator on the character sheet, but know that it did previously stack "unofficially" based on animations from another thread discussing Mitwo's build. It was an older thread....did they "stealth" fix this at some point in the last year? I have been less active recently.

[Ellihor]

With beguile now nerfed is there any viability to put 2 ranger there and get manyshot?

[emptysands]

I have confirmed that it doesn't stack based on the attack speed indicator on the character sheet, but know that it did previously stack "unofficially" based on animations from another thread discussing Mitwo's build. It was an older thread....did they "stealth" fix this at some point in the last year? I have been less active recently.

Never was meant to stack, however with full stacks was meant to give a greater bonus than haste.

[Carpone]

With beguile now nerfed is there any viability to put 2 ranger there and get manyshot?
Once you get a 10% Dodge item, you could ditch Mobility. Empower Heal Spell gets replaced by 6 AP in Deepwood Stalker. Toughness @ level 24 was a filler anyway, so there are the feat slots you need for Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Manyshot. You won't be centered with a bow, and with the Ninja Training II bug that forces you to use DEX for dmg with bows even if STR if higher, you don't want to be. I think it works in this build as a way to quickly stack up Master's Blitz.

[Nodoze]

Once you get a 10% Dodge item, you could ditch Mobility. Empower Heal Spell gets replaced by 6 AP in Deepwood Stalker. Toughness @ level 24 was a filler anyway, so there are the feat slots you need for Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Manyshot. You won't be centered with a bow, and with the Ninja Training II bug that forces you to use DEX for dmg with bows even if STR if higher, you don't want to be. I think it works in this build as a way to quickly stack up Master's Blitz.Just curious if with the changes you like the 9 Fighter/9 Monk/2 Ranger (with ManyShot) more than the original 9 Fighter/9 Monk/2 Druid.

Also curious what changes you would make if doing this on a first lifer 32-point Human (or PDK) starting at level 15 with no past lives (PDK would require starting with 1 Fighter instead of Ranger so less initial skills).

In my case I plan to level a duo up from 15 with a PDK Cleric/Fighter so I will have a pocket healer all the way through. Knowing that I will have a healer from 15 on and that I have never played Monks is there a way to be able to use Axes at 15 instead of Monk attacks without gimping the build at the higher levels?

Starting at level 15, what Axes from AH/quests you would recommend until you can get Cleaver?

[CThruTheEgo]

Why not take epic spell power positive for your second ED feat instead of toughness? You don't really need the second toughness, especially if you decide to drop mobility for another toughness.

[Carpone]

Why not take epic spell power positive for your second ED feat instead of toughness? You don't really need the second toughness, especially if you decide to drop mobility for another toughness.
Sure, it's an option.

[Nodoze]

Can you explain your 19-20 x7?
Base is x3, you get 1 from headman's chop -> x4
Then?base 3

1 devastating crit

1 hedamans

1 overwhelming

1 earth stanceI am curious...

Can you also activate 'Fists of Iron' to get another +1 crit multiplier?

Can you do 'The Trembling Earth (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Trembling_Earth)' for an additional +2 crit multiplier?

I saw these on the DDO wiki but I don't know if this is still accurate considering U19:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Finishing_Move

[Carpone]

Can you also activate 'Fists of Iron' to get another +1 crit multiplier?
Yes. I've incorporated it into my build as a way to ki dump against a boss.

[Cetus]

I am curious...

Can you also activate 'Fists of Iron' to get another +1 crit multiplier?

Can you do 'The Trembling Earth (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Trembling_Earth)' for an additional +2 crit multiplier?

I saw these on the DDO wiki but I don't know if this is still accurate considering U19:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Finishing_Move

Oh yea, I spam fists of iron like crazy. It greatly favors ESOS, since all crits gain the +1 multiplier, and ESOS goes 12-20 vs cleaver which would be 16-20.

The earth finisher seems to not provide the 2 multiplier, I've played with it and didn't see higher crits on the same roll versus fists of iron - I'm suspecting that its +1 instead of +2.

I could be mistaken though - I started a bug thread on lamannia forums a while back, no confirmation or rebuttal from anyone yet.

Also, it doesn't look like carpone grabbed ninja poison from the ninja spy tree. Its great free damage - getting the full stack is easy, and I've seen it tick as high as 140 every 3 seconds.

[Carpone]

Oh yea, I spam fists of iron like crazy. It greatly favors ESOS, since all crits gain the +1 multiplier, and ESOS goes 12-20 vs cleaver which would be 16-20.
eSoS has a great profile, but it brings up other issues like requiring eClaw to get +4 artifact damage and doesn't provide 15 PRR.


Also, it doesn't look like carpone grabbed ninja poison from the ninja spy tree. Its great free damage - getting the full stack is easy, and I've seen it tick as high as 140 every 3 seconds.
If you've got the AP for it, Sting of the Ninja is ok. Personally, I'd rather spend the AP elsewhere.

[Cetus]

eSoS has a great profile, but it brings up other issues like requiring eClaw to get +4 artifact damage and doesn't provide 15 PRR.


If you've got the AP for it, Sting of the Ninja is ok. Personally, I'd rather spend the AP elsewhere.

Requires Eclaw? - why?

Wearing 8% doublestrike in bracer slot + EE backstabbers in gloves slot (otherwise, nether grasps if you have an avithoul ring on)> 4 artifact damage. (litany also gives 1 profane damage - so that further squeezes the damage difference, even if you decide to go gloves/trinket instead for claw set - not to mention the opportunity to slot in a really nice random gen trinket to free up any other gear slot that would otherwise have it).

The 15PRR is alright, considering that it translates to a lower % chance damage reduction from the interval you are already sitting at (due to diminishing returns) + the self healing you've already incorporated.

Sting of the Ninja:

For 2 Action points you gain like 30-50 dps, since it ticks for well over a hundred every 3 seconds. I'll take it.

[Carpone]

Requires Eclaw? - why?

Wearing 8% doublestrike in bracer slot + EE backstabbers in gloves slot (otherwise, nether grasps if you have an avithoul ring on)> 4 artifact damage. (litany also gives 1 profane damage - so that further squeezes the damage difference, even if you decide to go gloves/trinket instead for claw set - not to mention the opportunity to slot in a really nice random gen trinket to free up any other gear slot that would otherwise have it).

The 15PRR is alright, considering that it translates to a lower % chance damage reduction from the interval you are already sitting at (due to diminishing returns) + the self healing you've already incorporated.

And now you don't have 30% healing amp, and you've got to find a slot for Seeker. It's not as straightforward as you make it. If you want to convince people to use eSoS, then provide a complete gear list with Dodge, PRR and Healing Amp calculated.

[Nightmanis]

And now you don't have 30% healing amp, and you've got to find a slot for Seeker. It's not as straightforward as you make it. If you want to convince people to use eSoS, then provide a complete gear list with Dodge, PRR and Healing Amp calculated.

He does have his gear setup on his thread. Also IIRC he has a heal stick he uses whenever he casts a scroll.

[Cetus]

And now you don't have 30% healing amp, and you've got to find a slot for Seeker. It's not as straightforward as you make it. If you want to convince people to use eSoS, then provide a complete gear list with Dodge, PRR and Healing Amp calculated.

I've got the gear setup listed on my build thread. It doesn't help to claim that I don't have a setup without first looking.

I keep myself up with heal scrolls, so equipping them with a 10/20/30 healing amp stick is how I maximize their efficiency.

If a healer wants to throw an occasional heal on me, I have 15% past lives + 30% from enhancements, plenty to get spot healed.

[yynderjohn]

How much would cocoon heal for without empower? Been reading this build and Cetus's tonight and it seems like taking 2 pally instead of druid would shore up the saves on this build and you could twist in divine might if you wanted. You lose the double strike boost, but gain survivability? I have greataxes so I want to play this build, but the low saves scare me off a bit.

[Soulfurnace]

I keep myself up with heal scrolls, so equipping them with a 10/20/30 healing amp stick is how I maximize their efficiency.
Triple pos greensteel?

[Nightmanis]

Triple pos greensteel?

Yes. Thanks to Cetuss that idea of offhanding a triple pos kama heal stick has been slowly crawling across our entire server. I use it on my rogue, however my fighter benefited more from just wearing the hamp gear indefinitely.

Hell, even the high end Juggernauts use the heal stick since most of them found out it's easier to use a heal scroll in smaller fights than it is to waste sp on recon.

[Soulfurnace]

Yes. Thanks to Cetuss that idea of offhanding a triple pos kama heal stick has been slowly crawling across our entire server. I use it on my rogue, however my fighter benefited more from just wearing the hamp gear indefinitely.

Hell, even the high end Juggernauts use the heal stick since most of them found out it's easier to use a heal scroll in smaller fights than it is to waste sp on recon.
Ah, bugger. Was hoping there was another way to get 10/20/30 on an offhand item.

I don't know whether to love this thread for showing me you can use a scroll+weapon in one weapon set, or burn it for making me go back to shroud.

[Nightmanis]

Ah, bugger. Was hoping there was another way to get 10/20/30 on an offhand item.

I don't know whether to love this thread for showing me you can use a scroll+weapon in one weapon set, or burn it for making me go back to shroud.

Trust in the Shroud :D

[Soulfurnace]

Trust in the Shroud :D
Would you like to see my collection of pitch forks? I'll think I'll take this one (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02527/pitchfork_2527682b.jpg) to shroud.

[Carpone]

I've got the gear setup listed on my build thread. It doesn't help to claim that I don't have a setup without first looking.

I keep myself up with heal scrolls, so equipping them with a 10/20/30 healing amp stick is how I maximize their efficiency.

If a healer wants to throw an occasional heal on me, I have 15% past lives + 30% from enhancements, plenty to get spot healed.
I see, it's just a different mentality about healing. I specifically chose to beef up healing amp/positive spell power so Rejuv Cocoon or the emergency Silver Flame potion could be as effective as possible without requiring a gear swap. I really hate swapping gear constantly and I dislike scroll healing. YMMV.

[Retrodark]

I see, it's just a different mentality about healing. I specifically chose to beef up healing amp/positive spell power so Rejuv Cocoon or the emergency Silver Flame potion could be as effective as possible without requiring a gear swap. I really hate swapping gear constantly and I dislike scroll healing. YMMV.

I also dislike scroll healing and swapping out gear, which is why I am considering a hybrid to cetus' build. I am thinking some combination like 12F/4M/4Pal or 12F/6P/2M, this way I would still get the high saves, along with some sp and some additional pally goodness. This way I can use cocoon. I know that I lose the 1 monk Feat and adept of forms (meaning I will need to take this as a feat). I will also lose shadow Veil :(.

I saw you mention something earlier about the ninja spy dex damage overriding the str damage on a bow. Is this still broken?

[Musashiclaw]

Interesting build I may take my old monster build this direction.
May I ask a few questions?
You mention using this build for past lives?

When you level from 1-20 what weapons do you use? Wraps or THF?
Also do you wear outfits or leather?

Appreciate the help.

[Carpone]

I saw you mention something earlier about the ninja spy dex damage overriding the str damage on a bow. Is this still broken?
It's fixed in U19 Patch 2.


When you level from 1-20 what weapons do you use? Wraps or THF?
Also do you wear outfits or leather?
Outfits. Leather doesn't allow you to use stances. If I were to TR again, I'd probably use wraps since I have an excellent selection of them. Once I can use Sword of Shadows centered, then I'd use that.

[sirgog]

If you are permanently wearing Kundarak Delving Boots, consider the epic version. The colourless slot can hold either a +Heal skill augment (ridiculously hard to come by at the moment, but should drop more over time) or alternately, it could hold your True Imperial Blood, freeing up your helm's yellow slot to hold a 40 elemental resist or some other utility effect.

Of course losing access to the boots from 9-19 (or 9-24 when the Blood is socketed) may just drive you crazy enough to decide not to do it.

[NaturalHazard]

I also dislike scroll healing and swapping out gear, which is why I am considering a hybrid to cetus' build. I am thinking some combination like 12F/4M/4Pal or 12F/6P/2M, this way I would still get the high saves, along with some sp and some additional pally goodness. This way I can use cocoon. I know that I lose the 1 monk Feat and adept of forms (meaning I will need to take this as a feat). I will also lose shadow Veil :(.

I saw you mention something earlier about the ninja spy dex damage overriding the str damage on a bow. Is this still broken?

I was thinking about 8 fighter 8 monk 4 paladin using centered citw weapons, only thing is less SP but better saves should help compensate that? 150 sp GS item and 200 archmagi, thats 370 counting the 20 from 4 pally right? then the wis mod so about 400 odd sp, 12 sp a pop with cocoon. Dont think i could find space for a lGS item. THough I do have red ferns necklace, bauble, spellstoring ring, and torc/con opt stuff.

One put off is that DM is insight bonus so wont stack with some gear? And the stuff you have to spend on to get DM on pally tree isnt that great, maybe the extra damage vs undead for FOT, then....... extra smite?


Another one is cleric instead of druid? with the new warpriest stuff, its not as tasty as 30% double strike but, that stacking extra damage would be great for parties raids on red name beat downs? Plus it has some nice stuff you need to get in order to qualify extra spell power, HP/PPR,



Outfits. Leather doesn't allow you to use stances. If I were to TR again, I'd probably use wraps since I have an excellent selection of them. Once I can use Sword of Shadows centered, then I'd use that.

Man SOS is so awesome with Keen edge, in greater mountain stance, cleave/great cleave, all your boosts and stuff like fists of iron. I went for the 2wf feats cause i got greensteel khopeshes though I do find myself switching in the SOS even without the 2hf feats, I think I do more single target dps with the 2wf but with multiple mobs, lag and the way mobs dance around I find myself often using the SOS over my green steel and prob my alchemical peshes.

[Emerge2012]

The nice thing about Carpone's build here and some of the other centered fighters is that it doesn't take 100 past lives or the absolute best gear/tomes to make a viable version. Cetus's build on the other hand needs hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours to be dumped into the game and in the end I can't really see how it's more viable even on a level playing field.

The gear swap is what gets me though. Everyone hates to do that and it really takes a lot of the fun away from the game to meta that far.

[Nightmanis]

The nice thing about Carpone's build here and some of the other centered fighters is that it doesn't take 100 past lives or the absolute best gear/tomes to make a viable version. Cetus's build on the other hand needs hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours to be dumped into the game and in the end I can't really see how it's more viable even on a level playing field.

The gear swap is what gets me though. Everyone hates to do that and it really takes a lot of the fun away from the game to meta that far.

-.-

Cetus posted his build showing how he made his build.

And as was discussed in the other thread, it's no more P2W than Carpone's build.

Also the gear swapping is no different than just scroll healing yourself. You click to equip the scroll, then click it again to use. Ok, now place it on a weapon slot with a triple pos heal kama (or Longsword. If you're set up for greatswords, you're centered with longswords) takes exactly as long as just equipping a scroll. Then click again. I use that so much on my rogue (with Wand and Scroll mastery and a ship buff and 10% from enhancements) hitting me for 398 a pop that I almost don't rely on anything else.

[Emerge2012]

-.-

Cetus posted his build showing how he made his build.

And as was discussed in the other thread, it's no more P2W than Carpone's build.

Also the gear swapping is no different than just scroll healing yourself. You click to equip the scroll, then click it again to use. Ok, now place it on a weapon slot with a triple pos heal kama (or Longsword. If you're set up for greatswords, you're centered with longswords) takes exactly as long as just equipping a scroll. Then click again. I use that so much on my rogue (with Wand and Scroll mastery and a ship buff and 10% from enhancements) hitting me for 398 a pop that I almost don't rely on anything else.

You're right he did post the build and how it was made. Which means you should clearly be able to see that it requires at least +5 tomes and a ridiculous gear set to be viable. Don't even get me started on how people pretend as though all of the +5 tomes they all use were drops and not purchased for more than $50. Carpone's variation here doesn't need 90 str for stunning blow and charisma is completely dumped. This leaves str/con as focus stats just as anyone would even if they were new. Thus this build here is far more economical in terms of both time and resources.

Gear swapping is gear swapping. If a player is going to build for cocoon they should probably use it and save themselves the trouble of swapping. Because like I said, excessive swapping takes the fun out of everything.

[TheLegendOfAra]

You're right he did post the build and how it was made. Which means you should clearly be able to see that it requires at least +5 tomes and a ridiculous gear set to be viable. Don't even get me started on how people pretend as though all of the +5 tomes they all use were drops and not purchased for more than $50. Carpone's variation here doesn't need 90 str for stunning blow and charisma is completely dumped. This leaves str/con as focus stats just as anyone would even if they were new. Thus this build here is far more economical in terms of both time and resources.

Gear swapping is gear swapping. If a player is going to build for cocoon they should probably use it and save themselves the trouble of swapping. Because like I said, excessive swapping takes the fun out of everything.

Cetus' build is posted using 2 +5 tomes, not a full set of +5's; if you've ever ran with our group of friends, or checked the Argo trade threads having 2 +5 tomes isn't that hard to fathom. So, no. He didn't buy +5 tomes from the store. You're assuming that, basing your assumptions on nothing at all.

Carpone doesn't have a "variation" of the build. The two builds are entirely different, built with different play styles in mind and to accomplish different things entirely.
If you knew the first thing about designing your own builds it would be fairly obvious. It's even more so when if you go through the various threads the two of them have debated the pro's and cons of each others builds and play styles.

The reason Cetus' build pumps Cha so much(Not even that hard to do. +4 tome and some nice gear and you're sitting at 42 easy) is because it not only adds to saves on his build, something his build strives for, but it also adds to his stunning blow DC. Something Carpone's build lacks entirely. Carpones also doesn't get Cha to saves, so of course he would dump everything except Con/Str/Dex.

So, to recap for you the builds are different, built to accomplish different things with different play styles, and given the gear sets listed for both the will take you the same amount of time to gear and max out the build. The only thing Cetus' build relies on that Carpone's doesn't is the 2 +5 tomes to meet stat requirements for feats, and he points that out in his thread.

And your last point is, well, pointless... Cetus doesn't like Cocoon, and he doesn't use Cocoon. He uses heal scrolls. So why on earth would he build and gear for using Cocoon?

[Emerge2012]

Cetus' build is posted using 2 +5 tomes, not a full set of +5's; if you've ever ran with our group of friends, or checked the Argo trade threads having 2 +5 tomes isn't that hard to fathom. So, no. He didn't buy +5 tomes from the store. You're assuming that, basing your assumptions on nothing at all.

Carpone doesn't have a "variation" of the build. The two builds are entirely different, built with different play styles in mind and to accomplish different things entirely.
If you knew the first thing about designing your own builds it would be fairly obvious. It's even more so when if you go through the various threads the two of them have debated the pro's and cons of each others builds and play styles.

The reason Cetus' build pumps Cha so much(Not even that hard to do. +4 tome and some nice gear and you're sitting at 42 easy) is because it not only adds to saves on his build, something his build strives for, but it also adds to his stunning blow DC. Something Carpone's build lacks entirely. Carpones also doesn't get Cha to saves, so of course he would dump everything except Con/Str/Dex.

So, to recap for you the builds are different, built to accomplish different things with different play styles, and given the gear sets listed for both the will take you the same amount of time to gear and max out the build. The only thing Cetus' build relies on that Carpone's doesn't is the 2 +5 tomes to meet stat requirements for feats, and he points that out in his thread.

And your last point is, well, pointless... Cetus doesn't like Cocoon, and he doesn't use Cocoon. He uses heal scrolls. So why on earth would he build and gear for using Cocoon?

Didn't realize I said he does use cocoon. Must have been an oversight by an overexcited cheerleader. And obviously there was zero need to say the two of you run together, that's plainly obvious.

Now, the builds go for different things? Even though one build goes for player skill and the other goes for mindless zerg rush I'd say the end goal is very much the same. It's not exactly a secret that skilled players can do more with bad builds/gear than lazy players can do with top tier everything. The build in this thread is for skilled players. Cetus's build is an end game version of the Evasion Paladin for New Players.

[Cetus]

Didn't realize I said he does use cocoon. Must have been an oversight by an overexcited cheerleader. And obviously there was zero need to say the two of you run together, that's plainly obvious.

Now, the builds go for different things? Even though one build goes for player skill and the other goes for mindless zerg rush I'd say the end goal is very much the same. It's not exactly a secret that skilled players can do more with bad builds/gear than lazy players can do with top tier everything. The build in this thread is for skilled players. Cetus's build is an end game version of the Evasion Paladin for New Players.

Lol, so you have to pollute both threads with your nonsense?

I'm sorry that you feel overwhelmed with the gear investment, not to mention all that money that it takes to build, zero of which I payed. Funny how that works...

Like ara said, dex and wisdom are the only tomes needed for the build. One of which you can EASILY acquire with this new mabar event. Fighter and paladin past lives are the most important for useful tactics and efficient self healing. Thats all you need in addition to the gearset to make the build work. Hell, sacrifice 5% doublestrike and pick up epic tactician if you really want to make up for the tactics loss from completionist, and enjoy.

Something tells me that this response still won't be satisfying =D

[TheLegendOfAra]

Didn't realize I said he does use cocoon. Must have been an oversight by an overexcited cheerleader. And obviously there was zero need to say the two of you run together, that's plainly obvious.

Now, the builds go for different things? Even though one build goes for player skill and the other goes for mindless zerg rush I'd say the end goal is very much the same. It's not exactly a secret that skilled players can do more with bad builds/gear than lazy players can do with top tier everything. The build in this thread is for skilled players. Cetus's build is an end game version of the Evasion Paladin for New Players.

Yeah, they're built for different things in mind. Carpones build is based around Improved Evasion; Screw saves, I'll take half damage from everything because I can deal with that amount of damage, or something similar to that anyways.

Cetus' build is build partially around Evasion and maxing saves to a no-fail level.

Both are about skills, and neither are about mindless zerg-rushhing content.
Unless you mean to say that soloing EE WGU takes no skill?

And your stance here makes no sense; You constantly complain about the gear/tome requirements of Cetus' build, but you believe it's a build for new players?
What new players do you know who have completionist?

[NaturalHazard]

Yeah, they're built for different things in mind. Carpones build is based around Improved Evasion; Screw saves, I'll take half damage from everything because I can deal with that amount of damage, or something similar to that anyways.

Cetus' build is build partially around Evasion and maxing saves to a no-fail level.

Both are about skills, and neither are about mindless zerg-rushhing content.
Unless you mean to say that soloing EE WGU takes no skill?

And your stance here makes no sense; You constantly complain about the gear/tome requirements of Cetus' build, but you believe it's a build for new players?
What new players do you know who have completionist?

I think maybe he saw cletus's build and went wow......then he read the stuff cetus has to make his build work and he got bitter and angry. I don'ts has dat stuff DIS BUILD IS ****!!! I HATE YOU CETUS YOUR USELESS!!!!

[TheLegendOfAra]

I HATE YOU CETUS YOUR USELESS!!!!

I believe this is the most sig worthy thing to ever be written on these forums.

[Cetus]

http://i.imgur.com/wxqQFQT.jpg

[Nightmanis]

You're right he did post the build and how it was made. Which means you should clearly be able to see that it requires at least +5 tomes and a ridiculous gear set to be viable. Don't even get me started on how people pretend as though all of the +5 tomes they all use were drops and not purchased for more than $50. Carpone's variation here doesn't need 90 str for stunning blow and charisma is completely dumped. This leaves str/con as focus stats just as anyone would even if they were new. Thus this build here is far more economical in terms of both time and resources.

Gear swapping is gear swapping. If a player is going to build for cocoon they should probably use it and save themselves the trouble of swapping. Because like I said, excessive swapping takes the fun out of everything.

Other than the ESOS and Litany (which neither can be bought in the store) what about his gearset is particularly hard to aquire? I mean sure the stuff is Epic Elite, but that doesn't mean a version of all EH stuff would be absolute ****y.

If anything, just swap the sword and trinket for a cleaver and planar prowess. Voila, now both gear sets look pretty similar.

[NaturalHazard]

I believe this is the most sig worthy thing to ever be written on these forums.

Yeah but if you just snip it like that, people will see it and not get that im trying to mimic someone else lol, but maybe thats the idea?

[happybaby]

When you level from 1-20 what weapons do you use? Wraps or THF?


I highly recommend wraps until you can fight while centered. That should be around level 16 or so. Early game, you own content, and your power slightly drops off as all the THF feats are spent while you are still sporting wrap :) I had a Green Steel axe and re did enhancements as soon as I could go centered w/ it.

I suppose you could consider a stick build to at least take advantage of the spent THF feats while working towards Cleaver. Also, I didn't really like the Druid splash much and would look into a Cleric (War Priest) next life.

[jakedamus]

Cleaver > eSoS. Limbchopper is awesome. Plus you'd have to wear eClaw set to make up the lost artifact hit/dmg. It's not terrible, but it's not optimal.

I don't wear exceptional Fortification for EE. The avoidance and mitigation are good enough.

I don't agree at all.
Consider ESOS on a 8 kensei has a crit range of 13-20! With a x7 on a 19-20. This is what my build has. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431435-Centered-Greatsword-Kensei
When you are doing this much damage who cares if the enemy's limb is choped off - they are dead in a few seconds anyway.
With good defence mine is - 50% displace / 25 % incorp / 15% dodge / 75 AC and / 80-100 PRR the few attacks the limb chop mitigates don't mean nada.

Cleaver is super overrated - it has a crit range of 20 at worse and 17-20 at best. I don't want the enemy limb chopped or cursed I just want them dead.

[ChemE]

Yea, Cleaver is not better than ESOS. It's just easier to get so more people have it. I have both and while Cleaver can come close sometimes, it's not better.

[jakedamus]

Yea, Cleaver is not better than ESOS. It's just easier to get so more people have it. I have both and while Cleaver can come close sometimes, it's not better.

The one downside of ESOS is that it is based on critical hits so if you have an enemy with high fortification you have to have some way to mitigate.

I use giant crafted armor (or black dragonscale) -15% + shattering strike -15% + twisted grim percision -15% = -45%

[NaturalHazard]

The one downside of ESOS is that it is based on critical hits so if you have an enemy with high fortification you have to have some way to mitigate.

I use giant crafted armor (or black dragonscale) -15% + shattering strike -15% + twisted grim percision -15% = -45%

That all stacks? Good to know, i always thought same number types don't stack.