Pale Trapper for new players (Human 18/2 Wizard/Rogue)

[EllisDee37]

Updated version of this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/394332) for the enhancement pass.

This is the basic Wizard/Rogue build for new players. It is primarily focused on enchantment and insta-kills, but also has a lot of flexibility with damage spells. Sturdy and dependable, it's great for both soloing and group play.

No tomes are required or listed. If you have access to int tomes go ahead and use them, and then put the extra skill points wherever you like. Heal is a good candidate, but anywhere is fine.

The build will work with any race. For non-human, skip the Toughness at level 1 (taken as a Human Bonus feat) and skimp on the spellcraft skill to keep your trapping skills up. If you have any int tomes at all you'll end up with more skill points than are listed in the build proper. Use your best judgement and you'll be fine.

Any alignment is fine. True Neutral is generally the best alignment, taking the least damage from mobs. If you want to farm up a torc, Lailat does extra damage to non-chaotic and good characters, meaning chaotic neutral is ideal for her. Maybe go chaotic neutral first life then tr into true neutral? Either way, alignment is irrelevant for the build so go with your preference.

There are no feat respecs in this build.

The previous version of this build is available here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422622-Pale-Trapper-for-new-players-%28Human-18-2-Wizard-Rogue%29?p=5582579&viewfull=1#post5582579).


Pale Trapper
18/2 Wizard/Rogue
Chaotic Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Wizard. . . . .11. Wizard. . . . .16. Wizard
2. Wizard . . . . .7. Wizard . . . . 12. Wizard . . . . 17. Wizard
3. Wizard . . . . .8. Wizard . . . . 13. Wizard . . . . 18. Wizard
4. Wizard . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Wizard. . . . .19. Wizard
5. Wizard . . . . 10. Wizard . . . . 15. Wizard . . . . 20. Wizard


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . 34pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . ---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .14. . . .10. . . .12. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . .16. . . .18. . . .18. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .18. . . .18. . . .18. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . R .W .W .W .W .W .W .W .R. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 2 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 2 .2 .2 . . 2. . .2 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. . .2 . . 2. 23
Disable . 4 . . . .1 . . 1. . .1 .5. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 . . . .1 . . 1. . .1 .5. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 2 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . 1. . . 7
Open Lo . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
Repair. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
UMD . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Swim. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Perform . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .52 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .8 14 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9


Feats

.1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.1 Human. : Toughness OR Augment Summoning
.2 Wizard : Maximize Spell
.3. . . . : Empower Spell
.6. . . . : Extend Spell
.6 Wizard : Heighten Spell
.9. . . . : Spell Focus: Enchantment
12. . . . : Spell Penetration
12 Wizard : Spell Focus: Necromancy
15. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
17 Wizard : Quicken Spell
18. . . . : Greater Spell Penetration
21 Epic . : Epic Spell Penetration
24 Epic . : Embolden Spell
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Negative
27 Epic . : Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy
28 Destiny: Hellball
29 Destiny: Arcane Pulse
30 Epic . : Master of: the Dead
30 Legend : Scion of: Shadowfell


Enhancements (80 AP)

Archmage (40 AP)
Chill Touch, Command Undead, Halt Undead, Enervation
Energy of the Scholar I, Spell Critical
Efficient Maximize III, Efficient Empower III, Spell Critical
Spell Penetration II, Spell Critical, Intelligence
Efficient Heighten II, School Mastery: Necromancy, Spell Critical, Intelligence

Pale Master (36 AP)
Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form, Lich Form
Deathless Vigor III, Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
Efficient Quicken III, Spell Critical
Spell Critical, Intelligence
Spell Critical, Intelligence
Necromantic Focus, Improved Shrouding

Human (4 AP)
Skills Boost, Intelligence, Saves Boost

Leveling Guide
(Bank 4 AP)
AM0 Chill Touch; AM1 Energy of the Scholar I; AM1 Spell Critical; PM0 Dark Reaping; (Bank 2 AP)
AM2 Efficient Empower I, II, III
PM1 Deathless Vigor I, II
PM0 Zombie Form; AM0 Command Undead; PM1 Negative Energy Conduit I, II
PM1 Deathless Vigor III; PM1 Spell Critical
PM0 Vampire Form; AM0 Halt Undead; AM3 Intelligence
PM3 Intelligence; (Bank 2 AP)
AM2 Efficient Maximize I, II, III
AM4 School Mastery: Necromancy; PM2 Spell Critical
AM4 Intelligence; PM3 Spell Critical
PM1 Negative Energy Conduit III; PM4 Intelligence; Hum0 Skills Boost
AM4 Efficient Heighten I, II
PM0 Wraith Form; AM0 Enervation; PM4 Spell Critical
AM3 Spell Penetration I, II
AM2 Spell Critical; (Bank 2 AP)
PM2 Efficient Quicken I, II, III
PM5 Necromantic Focus; PM5 Improved Shrouding
AM3 Spell Critical; AM4 Spell Critical
PM0 Lich Form; Hum0 Intelligence; Hum0 Saves Boost


Destiny (24 AP)

Magister
Unearthly Reactions II, Intelligence
School Specialist: Necromancy III, Intelligence
Sigil of Energy II, Piercing Spellcraft III, Intelligence
Intelligence
Intelligence
Arcane Adept, Intelligence

Twists of Fate (12 fate points)
Energy Burst: Acid (Tier 4 Draconic)
Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exalted)



The two rogue levels are taken at 1 & 9, getting you to level 7 wizard (for firewall) as quickly as possible and then taking evasion.

In the early levels, the Chill Touch SLA is quite strong with both maximize and empower, which are of course free for SLAs. The spell list given is a general concept, really; you will likely switch your spells around quite a bit. One common variation is to start with Master's Touch for the first few levels.

I'm a big fan of well-placed charms in the early levels -- particularly effective on champions -- so when I get Scorch at level 5 I swap out Burning Hands for Charm Person.

For enhancements, you might want to spend 2 AP in the pale master tree to get the skeletal knight to use as a lever puller. Take these 2 AP from Deathless Vigor.

[EllisDee37]

reserved

[EllisDee37]

i think i want several posts here at the start

[EllisDee37]

let's see, i want a stat/dc breakdown post, a gear post, and probably a tactics post.

[EllisDee37]

okay last placeholder and I should be good to go

[mna]

Excellent, and thank you,

If you have an older version of this build, consider saving the free LR+20 to grab a free past life for a class you otherwise wouldn't play. (Sorcerer? FVS? Cleric, even?) If you still have your free LR+0 use that to respec for the skills and taking empower instead of enchantment focus. No class levels changed.

...yeah, good idea... wonder if the +20 one will persist over a TR, actually...


No tomes are required or listed. If you have access to int tomes go ahead and use them, and then put the extra skill points wherever you like. Heal is a good candidate, but anywhere is fine.

So. Heal, UMD, open lock, balance...?

I note that you have UMD ending up at 1 there. And Perform at 2... does unlocking Perform do something useful beyond +2 resonance? (Wait, does it work so that you need to unlock the skill before +skill items have a benefit? Perform was one of those that are N/A instead of 0, so... heh, one of my non-bard toons got a +1 perform skill tome from the dice the other week, which one was it again?)


The build will work with any race. For non-human, skip the Toughness at level 1 (taken as a Human Bonus feat) and skimp on the spellcraft skill to keep your trapping skills up.


How was it again, Fred won't respec Human Bonus feats or something?

I wonder... I was thinking about trying Augment Summoning but that would make it more difficult to swap it to something else if it's not worthwhile.

[EllisDee37]

So. Heal, UMD, open lock, balance...?

I note that you have UMD ending up at 1 there. And Perform at 2... does unlocking Perform do something useful beyond +2 resonance? (Wait, does it work so that you need to unlock the skill before +skill items have a benefit? Perform was one of those that are N/A instead of 0, so... heh, one of my non-bard toons got a +1 perform skill tome from the dice the other week, which one was it again?)Heal is the highest priority for extra skill points. I've found UMD essentially worthless on my pale trapper; I've used it maybe twice ever over almost two years.

Open lock is fine but you also get the knock spell. After heal I'd probably go with balance but it largely doesn't matter. Maybe repair, or even move silently.

Perform is only in there because it offers spell power and lama testing showed that I could take it even without bard levels.


How was it again, Fred won't respec Human Bonus feats or something?Yes, he can swap human bonus feats. Not sure I understand the question.

[mna]

Yes, he can swap human bonus feats. Not sure I understand the question.

OK, guess that was just an outdated old bug post here on the forums then...

[EllisDee37]

OK, guess that was just an outdated old bug post here on the forums then...Oh, you may have seen something I posted about it.

The problem with the human bonus feat -- where toughness is largely a throw-away -- is that you can't take caster feats there because you're only a level 1 rogue. So no spell pen, no metamagic, no school focus allowed. Even later on when you get caster levels you still can't swap any of those in because Fred got smart enough to see that when you were level 1 you had no casting ability.

Augment Summoning is fine to take as the human bonus feat instead of toughness.

[xMund]

I am considering doing a variation of this for my next life, going conjuration in stead of Enchantment specced. This would be my first caster, so trying to figure out what is possible.

I have you tried going with a melee option for this? I am thinking wraith shroud THF with tensers, webs, acid rain and death aura galore, with melee to speed things up slightly. Maybe go for power attack from the free human feat?

I would have +4 tomes and 34 build points to make the stat math come out a bit better...

Would this (in your opinion) work at all, or am I better off not getting close? I mostly solo, so I would have aggro most of the time anyway...

[eachna_gislin]

Would this feat list still work well for a non human? It comes from the previous build...

Non-Human
1 : Toughness or Augment Summoning
2W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
3 : Insightful Reflexes
6 : Mental Toughness <== Do NOT take as wizard bonus feat
6W: Extend Spell
9 : Maximize Spell
12 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
12W: Quicken Spell
15 : Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
17W: Heighten Spell
18 : Spell Penetration
20 : Greater Spell Penetration replaces Mental Toughness

And these tacked on to the bottom?
21E: Epic Spell Penetration
24E: Great Ability: Intelligence
26E: Nullification +20
27E: Great Ability: Intelligence
28E: Toughness

edit: included optional Augment Summoning feat as mentioned earlier in the thread

edit again: While trying to update enhancements I saw that I could not take improved empower, because the older feat list is missing that. Also, you appear to have dropped Mental Toughness (no longer needed for Archmage).

It looks like I'll have to make judicious use of feat swaps at Fred as I already used my free LR (and I'm saving my LR +20 for future use)

I am glad to see you updated this build as quickly as you did. Thank you.

[Himkano]

I have a build similar to this, from a long time ago. I was archmage warforge, but having trouble soloing so I switched to PM.

I used the free respec, maybe prematurely, to fix his skills, and took him for a test run, and remembered why I stopped playing him - which is, I don't really know how to play him.

This is my question - how do you play a pale trapper. My instinct is to turn on aura, and run up and beat stuff (and let the aura do most of the work). This has more or less worked for me so far, but it is slow, and I can imagine a time where the aura will not out heal the damage. Am I on the right track, or is there another part of the strategy that I am overlooking, because with low armor and low hitpoints, eventually I am going to get overwhelmed.

[EllisDee37]

The simplest method for leveling is to get a level-appropriate tower shield (but don't equip it), then cast aura & displacement and run around gathering up a dozen or so mobs, cast firewall or ice storm, equip the tower shield, then stand there in the middle of the aoe and shield block until everything is dead. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Displacement halves the incoming damage, aura keeps you healed, the aoe does the killing. Do not do any casting with a shield in your hand, do not ever cast negative energy burst except in the most dire circumstance, and aura should be doing very little of the damage against mobs.

The slightly more expensive but safer approach is to combine a lingering CC spell with this technique. I like to combine webs with firewall, dancing ball with ice storm. Note that firewall does not burn away webs, so cast them both in the same spot. Typically right where you're standing after gathering a bunch of mobs, then quickly switch to the shield and block.

Still more expensive but much faster is to add acid rain on top of whichever aoe (firewall or ice storm) you're using.

For 1 or 2 mobs I use frost lance and scorching ray. Turn maximize on for these; maximize only costs me 12 sp but even without an efficient trinket it'll still only cost you 16. Close enough. (Try to find a crafter to make you an efficient maximize II shard if you can't make one yourself.)

Tactics change at higher level; this is the basic idea from 8 to around 17, though. For levels 2-7, for the most part I just use un-meta'd frost lance and scorching ray on everything. Though with this build I might turn on empower for those levels. (Again with an efficient trinket to bring it down from 9 to 7 sp.)

[Jingwei]

I got more use of out acid spray that out of frost lance. I could gather up a few monsters and hit most of them with multiple acid sprays. I generally found that frost lance didn't bring down my target in one hit, so I had to cast it several times already. Not a great use of SP.

As an alternative to early web SLA, I think that early magic missile + chain missile SLAs might work better. Since you could stack maximize + empower on them and not need to worry about spell DC so much. And a maximized + empowered chain missile might be a better way to kill groups than a firewall.

[EllisDee37]

I got more use of out acid spray that out of frost lance. I could gather up a few monsters and hit most of them with multiple acid sprays. I generally found that frost lance didn't bring down my target in one hit, so I had to cast it several times already. Not a great use of SP.We have differing experiences. I found through multiple lives that frost lance was highly effective doing elite bravery streaks. Conversely, I found the "spray" spells to be poor damage for the mana spent.

[nibel]

First off, I would like to tell you that I recently updated the wizard trees on the wiki. They are up to date and safe to consult now.

Second, I would HIGHLY reccomend this build to take the Skeleton Knight enhancement as soon as possible. Not only the skelly is durable as hell, he now have a pet control bar and can pull lever and stand on switches for you. Maybe leaving the option to boost him if you want to really fight with him, or just left one point spent to get a free sturdy lever puller.

[EllisDee37]

Well, there's 6 points essentially thrown away on Deathless Vigor solely to meet "points in tree" prereqs, so that's 6 points that could easily get us started on the pet line. I suppose it's easy enough to scale back on the efficient metamagics if you want to fully max the pet.

EDIT:

Looking more closely, it's 15 AP to max the skeleton. We can't really take those points from the Archmage tree because we need to spend 30 to unlock tier 5 PM stuff. So to cannibalize 15 AP from the PM tree to max the pet would look like:

6 Deathless Vigor III
6 Improved Quicken III
2 Final tier of Critical: Negative
1 Negative Energy Conduit scales back from III to II
---
15 = Maxed skeleton

[pREDDY]

great build! i've used this build to level up my first toon from 1-20. i was hoping you could comment on what gear to go after, and what spells to focus on. i've heard varying advice as to which elemental types to focus on. i'm currently using cold/acid, but i've been told fire is better than cold? any advice on the matter would be much appreciated.

[EllisDee37]

great build! i've used this build to level up my first toon from 1-20. i was hoping you could comment on what gear to go after, and what spells to focus on. i've heard varying advice as to which elemental types to focus on. i'm currently using cold/acid, but i've been told fire is better than cold? any advice on the matter would be much appreciated.The enhancement pass removed elemental type specialization; you now only get universal spell power, so that decision is now only about what gear to equip.

Regarding gear, I will eventually add a gear section but right now it's in flux until I see how all the new lootgen shakes out. Though I will say that torc is of course still worthwhile to pursue, and with Halloween not too far away I'd recommend farming up some Mabar robes "just in case." They are no longer the greatest thing since sliced bread for a pale master, but they're still pretty darn good.

[Xenaphon]

Personally I think going Drow is much better than human. Extra 2DC is better than extra 28HP. While leveling, (until you get really good Necro spells) Its better to go with AM with evocation (chain missile and magic missile). Take insightful Reflex, Maximize and Empower as the first 3 feats. you can take Insightful Reflex while rogue. I personally did not take toughness since I already had barb past life, you can take that later since, at low levels the benefits are not big. Extend spell feat is also a question mark for me. While it is nice, only few spells really need it (Haste and Displacement).

Over all, I have found Wiz with 2 rogue to be very powerful build. Only downside is spell points, but that is because I am used to playing Sorcs.

[EllisDee37]

Personally I think going Drow is much better than human. Extra 2DC is better than extra 28HP.2 DC?

As crazy as it sounds, the build is a little tight on skill points if you want full trapping plus max ranks in concentration, spellcraft and heal. Human helps for this.


While leveling, (until you get really good Necro spells) Its better to go with AM with evocation (chain missile and magic missile).I'm unimpressed with the AM force SLAs for leveling. Give me a webby firewall any day.

Extend is most useful for death aura. It does work to drop extend for empower to focus on AM force SLAs, though.

[Heathir]

Okies--

I went with a shadar kai iconic to make my pale trapper:

Number one at lvl 15 the build without the human feat can trap monkey elite heroic at level (thank you ellis for showing me)
Number two amazing build, although i butchered your enhancements to get the sla's becuase of mana issues
Number three 200% fort in wriath form with 100% fort belt (thanks for pointing that out)

This is such a fun build!!!

[SirValentine]

2 DC?


He probably means the 3 extra Int. 2 starting, and 2 enhancement, versus Human 1 enhancement. Plus, a potential +1 Enchant DC.



As crazy as it sounds, the build is a little tight on skill points if you want full trapping plus max ranks in concentration, spellcraft and heal. Human helps for this.


Versus Drow? How? Drow's starting +2 Int exactly equals Human's +1 skill point per level.

[EllisDee37]

He probably means the 3 extra Int. 2 starting, and 2 enhancement, versus Human 1 enhancement. Plus, a potential +1 Enchant DC.Ah, gotcha.


Versus Drow? How? Drow's starting +2 Int exactly equals Human's +1 skill point per level.Duh! Mental lapse on my part.

[Atremus]

I kind of punted on researching those. Hellball or Ruin may be the greatest thing ever, so check them out a little first before committing.


Opinion / quick comment on the first epic destiny feat and L27 feat:

1) The +5 Spell Craft (essentially +5 USP to all, excpet Heal/Repair/Perform) is nice considering all of the spells that a Wizard can cast. It covers more ground than +20 to one specialty. On my Druid, I did +20 Cold, but regret it. +5 USP would be more useful overall

2) I love Ruin. It's expensive to cast, but there is no save. Impulse + Metas = good damage. I haven't tried Hell Ball.

[Lanhelin]

The Archmage school you choose is totally up to you; the build as written takes conjuration for the web SLA until level 15, when we get dancing ball. At that point we reset the archmage tree and switch to enchantment SLAs. The archmage school ends up getting +1 dc, so you might consider going necro instead of enchant at 15. I definitely recommend the web sla while leveling, though. With free heighten!

While I got heavily inspired by your build (I play a WF AM/Rogue 2, Enchantment focused), why didn't you take the Enlarge feat? Because especially all the CC and Evocation spells (other than rays) profit a lot from double range. I can hardly imagine how to play a Wiz without enlarged spells. Use throwing weapons? Perhaps Palemasters do melee more often, but it's pretty annoying not to reach enemies far away and with rays only. And Dancing Ball I'd say, even quickened it's not as good as the various types of Mass xxx (suggestion, charm, hold) because of its casting time. Though I have the Ball slotted, I rarely cast it, mostly when I've got enough time before a fight starts and because pugs often demand it (reason? I don't know. It feels a lot weaker than other spells). The Web is good to cc Undead, but most of the time a firewall and/or chain lightning put them out of combat faster^^

[EllisDee37]

why didn't you take the Enlarge feat?Enlarge is quite nice, for sure. My cleric loves it, but I'm so used to not having it on my pale master that I don't miss it.

Out of curiosity, what did you drop for it? Extend? (That would be my guess as the least disruptive feat to drop.)



Personally I think going Drow is much better than human. Extra 2DC is better than extra 28HP.I've been thinking about this over the last few days. I think drow is the superior choice for 36pt builds, but for first life characters -- particularly new players -- the extra 58 hp can be really helpful. (Drow get -2 con and humans can take toughness with the human bonus feat, which adds up to 58 hp @ 28.)

[Lanhelin]

Out of curiosity, what did you drop for it? Extend? (That would be my guess as the least disruptive feat to drop.)

Yes. I'd also suggest to take Quicken earlier than Level 17, Level 15 maybe, because casting the Dancing Ball without it really is a pain, especially in combat. In fact I do not feel the need to use Quicken but for this spell only. I'd rather drop Quicken for another feat and do not cast the ball at all, because it isn't that great either, at least according to my experience. Perhaps you know what this spell makes so extraordinary?

As a first lifer at Level 1 I took Augment Summoning instead of Toughness, because Hires get much more useful with this feat when it's about to activate stat-based Runes/Levers (like Clerics able to activate Str-based levers) and charmed/dominated/controlled mobs also should get a bit tougher as the description says.

[EllisDee37]

What makes dancing ball so good is that it's persistent.

I too generally only use quicken for dancing ball (and negative energy burst), but keep it on full time for all spells when running EE. I don't run much EE content, but doing EE chrono and ADQ with guild raids showed me the value of quicken.

What did (or would) you take as your level 17 bonus feat? Pushing Necromancy focus to 17 and greater necromancy focus to 18 seems awfully late to me, so I don't think I'd be comfortable doing that. Pushing heighten that late would undercut the value of the SLAs while leveling. Maximize? Empower? Not much else qualifies as a wizard bonus feat.

[Lanhelin]

I'd take the Spell Focus instead of Empower and move Empower to Lvl 18. Especially as a new player/first lifer SP would be pretty low without magus gear/archmage hat and with Heighten and Maximize the spells deal enough damage (and cost enough SP).

[EllisDee37]

I definitely wouldn't want to push Empower late. Empower has "take early" written all over it.

[mna]

The simplest method for leveling is to get a level-appropriate tower shield (but don't equip it), then cast aura & displacement and run around gathering up a dozen or so mobs, cast firewall or ice storm, equip the tower shield, then stand there in the middle of the aoe and shield block until everything is dead. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Displacement halves the incoming damage, aura keeps you healed, the aoe does the killing. Do not do any casting with a shield in your hand, do not ever cast negative energy burst except in the most dire circumstance, and aura should be doing very little of the damage against mobs.

On the "turtle mode" thing - anyone know if Riposte procs on blur/displacement, or is it only on "straight" miss? Now that it seems to be common in random drops...

(Riposte apparently counts as "misadventure" so doesn't show numbers, and doesn't seem to go in the combat log...?)

[EllisDee37]

Now that blue augments drop on lootgen shields like candy I'm looking to slot in a PRR augment on my turtle shield.

I still think crafted shields will be the best. Start with the highest base type you can equip, slap on +5 enhancement bonus and axeblock, then craft up a spearblock one-hander to go in the mainhand of the turtle weaponset and you're good to go. Slot PRR into the shield for extra goodness.

[mna]

I still think crafted shields will be the best. Start with the highest base type you can equip, slap on +5 enhancement bonus and axeblock, then craft up a spearblock one-hander to go in the mainhand of the turtle weaponset and you're good to go. Slot PRR into the shield for extra goodness.

...sure, when I'll actually be able to craft those.

Will be a good while before I can craft better than lootgen.

[EllisDee37]

...sure, when I'll actually be able to craft those.

Will be a good while before I can craft better than lootgen.Axeblock and spearblock are low level recipes, and a +5 enhancement bonus shard can be bought from a crafter. Just ask in trade channel in either crafting hall; odds are that you'll just have to pay the cost of the shard.

[Panpiper]

I definitely recommend the web sla while leveling, though. With free heighten!

I don't understand this. As near as I can tell the best you can do is get heighten down to one spell point per level of heightening. How do you get 'free' heighten?

[EllisDee37]

I don't understand this. As near as I can tell the best you can do is get heighten down to one spell point per level of heightening. How do you get 'free' heighten?Metamagics are free when applied to SLAs, so if you take the conjuration school for archmage you get a Web SLA, which can be heightened for free.

[Panpiper]

Metamagics are free when applied to SLAs, so if you take the conjuration school for archmage you get a Web SLA, which can be heightened for free.

Does this mean that an archmage could cast Cloudkill (on top of that web) using Enlarge, Heighten, and Quicken for only 15 spell points? All metamagics on SLAs are completely free? If so, I have to now completely readjust my analysis.

[EllisDee37]

Does this mean that an archmage could cast Cloudkill (on top of that web) using Enlarge, Heighten, and Quicken for only 15 spell points? All metamagics on SLAs are completely free?Yep.

[Treefq]

I am going to necro this thread. And it is about a Necro, heh.

Ok why rogue and not monk? Wizards get spells that can open locks and doors right? 2 monk gives you evasion. The wisdom is in the toilet, that is true.

[MartinusWyllt]

For one it would be hard to call it a "Pale Trapper" without rogue or arti and "Trapper" without evasion is possible, but painful, at times.

[EllisDee37]

I am going to necro this thread. And it is about a Necro, heh.

Ok why rogue and not monk? Wizards get spells that can open locks and doors right? 2 monk gives you evasion. The wisdom is in the toilet, that is true.Honestly, the primary reason for the rogue splash for me was because all those skill points would otherwise mostly go to waste. After you max concentration, heal and spellcraft, what else are you going to spend points on that's worthwhile? In the first incarnation of this (before the enhancement pass) I maxed umd and then never used umd for two years. So I dropped it for heal and spellcraft after the pass.

[Treefq]

Ah skill points. that makes sense. trying to level an archer based build as my first toon but I am already slightly bored at level 6. Plinking away is taking too long. trying to decide about pure melee or try a caster.

[stinger31216]

Sorry to dig up this dead thread, but has anyone considered using the new Eldritch Knight tree rather than archmage? I think the eldritch+vampire/wraith could be pretty fun.

Any reason why this wouldn't work as well as the OP?

[EllisDee37]

Sorry to dig up this dead thread, but has anyone considered using the new Eldritch Knight tree rather than archmage? I think the eldritch+vampire/wraith could be pretty fun.

Any reason why this wouldn't work as well as the OP?Not a dead thread, just sleeping. heh.

You're describing a melee character, I believe. While I don't see any problem making a melee wizard, the specific build in the OP is a DC caster.

[stinger31216]

Not a dead thread, just sleeping. heh.

You're describing a melee character, I believe. While I don't see any problem making a melee wizard, the specific build in the OP is a DC caster.

Well it seems to me there are 2 goals in the OP: DC casting, and trapping. What I'm asking is if anyone has tried trapping+EK instead, spending points in pale and EK rather than pale and AM.

[LeadHero5]

Only level 2 so I have no results to report yet. One rogue past life and starting with 18 int and a +5 int tome to keep all the trapping skills as high as possible. By the planner, I can keep concentration, spellcraft, spot, search and disable within a point or two of max ranks; only open lock is low. I'm just a casual player in a static group, so I'm not planning for any 'end game'. Took rogue then 12 wizard before the second level of rogue at 14 so I can get wraith form as soon as possible. Might move a few points around but I want at least lich form, strong skeleton and Tensor's.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Wholi2 wiz-rogue
Level 20 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard)
Hit Points: 214
Spell Points: 1463
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 24
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 12 14
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 13 16
Intelligence 18 32
Wisdom 10 12
Charisma 8 9

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 7
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 3 26
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 8 34
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 2 3
Hide 6 11
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 5 8
Listen 0 3
Move Silently 2 5
Open Lock 6 18
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 11
Search 8 33
Spellcraft 6 34
Spot 4 23
Swim 5 6
Tumble 6 7
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Augment Summoning


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Reaping (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Zombie (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Vampire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Wraith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Lich (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Corpsecrafter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Corpsecrafter (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Corpsecrafter (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Eternal Servitude (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Eternal Servitude (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Eternal Servitude (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Furor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Furor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Furor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Acid (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Frost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Shock (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Light Armor Proficiency (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Martial Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Elemental Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Elemental Resistance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Elemental Resistance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Tenser's Transformation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)

[EllisDee37]

I wouldn't want to use vampire form without improved shrouding.

[pappo]

EllisDee37 - +1 for the build. I have been running a WF version of it and am now at Lvl 20.

I took Enchantment path mostly, and I just was running around Amarath S/R/E and almost nothing was being held/charmed. I ended up just buffing my group with Haste/Jump/GH etc.. so I could feel useful.
My INT is 37 and my DC's are around 37/38 for the Necro and Enchantment spells.
Why am I such a gimp PM at this level ?

Leveling up was easy and fun, but now the build does not seem to be valuable.

Can you post some info on your final INT / DC's and what gear you farmed on him when you got to Level 20 ?
You mention running EE's, but right now, I don't feel good running EN.

[unbongwah]

Did you see a lot of "blue shield" effects when you cast your CC spells? If so, it means your Spell Pen is too low and you need to invest effort in upping it, thru feats, enhs, and gear. Unfortunately, splashing rog costs you 2 Spell Pen right off the bat, but it's not an insurmountable loss.

[Cardtrick]

I took Enchantment path mostly, and I just was running around Amarath S/R/E and almost nothing was being held/charmed. I ended up just buffing my group with Haste/Jump/GH etc.. so I could feel useful.
My INT is 37 and my DC's are around 37/38 for the Necro and Enchantment spells.
Why am I such a gimp PM at this level ?

Leveling up was easy and fun, but now the build does not seem to be valuable.

Can you post some info on your final INT / DC's and what gear you farmed on him when you got to Level 20 ?
You mention running EE's, but right now, I don't feel good running EN.

Keep in mind that Amrath, despite being heroic, is quite a bit harder than a lot of lower level epic normal quests -- especially for a DC caster, and especially, especially for a first-life multi-classed pale master.

As Unbongwah alluded to with his mention of blue shields and spell penetration checks, Devils and Fiendish enemies (who make up a big portion of what you'll find in Amrath/Shavarath) have Spell Resistance, which forces you to make a spell penetration check in addition to the usual DC check.

In addition to Devils and Fiendish enemies, you'll mostly see Spell Resistance from Drow -- who do make up a significant chunk of the enemies in Epic quests, but certainly not in all of them.

It is very hard to get an epic-capable level of spell penetration on a first-life splashed human. You can get it high enough to be useful, with significant investment, but at least for right now -- until you get the gear/feats/ED abilities you need -- your best option might just be to use DPS spells against drow and devils.

[EllisDee37]

You mention running EE's, but right now, I don't feel good running EN.I do not run EE.

However, your experience doesn't sound right to me, and I agree it may be a spell pen issue. A first life pale trapper should be able to hit the EH threshold of 40 spell pen, or at least very close to it. (40 is no-fail on VON3 drow, which is the highest non-priestess spell resistance you'll find in EH. At least I'm pretty sure it's the highest. It's 2 points higher than any drow in MotU apart from priestesses, anyway: VON3 EH drow are CR30, EH MotU drow are CR28.)

18 base
8 feats
5 destiny (autogrants)
3 destiny (piercing spellcraft)
3 enhancements
2 item
---
38

That should be plenty close enough to be able to ignore spell resistance outside of EE.

[SirValentine]

40 is no-fail on VON3 drow, which is the highest non-priestess spell resistance you'll find in EH. At least I'm pretty sure it's the highest. It's 2 points higher than any drow in MotU apart from priestesses, anyway: VON3 EH drow are CR30, EH MotU drow are CR28.


It's a special case, but the Drow lurking in a side passage of The Druid's Curse have a very high CR. I think it was 64 on EE, if I'm remembering correctly. Don't know what they are are EH.

EDIT: Nevermind, just checked and they are only CR 28 also on EH. Just the EE versions that are much higher.

[hyperstaz]

I'm currently at lv 25 with a third life pale trapper. However the 1st two wizard lives were from pretty long ago, and my gear is hardly the best. Its true that epics are dependent largely on destinies. Its easy to run shiradi and slowly nuke the HPs of mobs (I'm an average player with average/below average gear). Running Magister will help dcd and instakills, making it work ok up to eh giant hold. I have a necro dc of around 54 (considered gimpy by those playing with EEs) and it works ok up to EH Gianthold in a group, though failing is not uncommon. Soloing is quite a pain as there's inevitably those mobs who just don't die, resulting in the need to nuke them down anyways. This is definitely not a EE build, but even EH storm horns can be a struggle IMO. Really fun to lv though.

[EllisDee37]

That seems like a fair assessment.

[pappo]

I do not run EE.

However, your experience doesn't sound right to me, and I agree it may be a spell pen issue. A first life pale trapper should be able to hit the EH threshold of 40 spell pen, or at least very close to it. (40 is no-fail on VON3 drow, which is the highest non-priestess spell resistance you'll find in EH. At least I'm pretty sure it's the highest. It's 2 points higher than any drow in MotU apart from priestesses, anyway: VON3 EH drow are CR30, EH MotU drow are CR28.)

18 base
8 feats
5 destiny (autogrants)
3 destiny (piercing spellcraft)
3 enhancements
2 item
---
38

That should be plenty close enough to be able to ignore spell resistance outside of EE.

Where do I look on my character sheet to tell what my Spell Pen number ? Is that the same thing as spell DC ?

[EllisDee37]

Where do I look on my character sheet to tell what my Spell Pen number ? Is that the same thing as spell DC ?Unfortunately, spell penetration isn't listed anywhere on your character sheet. You either have to add it up manually, or cast a spell on a mob that has spell resistance and watch the die roll or check the combat log. (Mobs with spell resistance include evil outsiders, drow, and dwarf/duerger.)

Your base spell penetration is equal to your caster level. To add it up manually, you get spell pen from the following sources:

1 per wizard level (so a level 18 wizard gets 18)
feats
enhancements
items
1 per active arcane destiny level, max of 5 for a maxed, active arcane destiny
up to 3 for piercing spellcraft (epic destiny ability in both magister and draconic, stack with each other)
2 for each wizard past life
1 for each favored soul past life
arcane augmentation item (eg: staff of the necromancer)

There are a couple other esoteric ways to add spell pen, like twisting in echoes of the ancestors from fatesinger, but the above list hits most of the normal way to get spell pen.

Spell penetration and DC are unrelated. If you fail your spell penetration, the mob never has to roll against your DC at all.

[Endarire]

Human looks spiffy for this build, but what about Warforged, Sun Elf, and Drow? Sun Elf seems best (due to INT/spell point bonuses and minor positive energy self-healing) and has the irony of being a race named after glowing radiance who hangs around in the dark. Drow also gets +INT without having to pay Turbine Points, but doesn't get to start at level 15. Warforged has the benefit of self-healing outside of negative energy and can keep many Undead immunities outside of Undead form, thereby avoiding extra damage from Light spells. Again, no level 15.

[EllisDee37]

Yep, any race works.

If you want to go sun elf I'd probably recommend staying pure wizard. Otherwise, they're all fine. Drow and Human are the two best races to choose for the skill points, but I have no doubt that a warforged would work fine.

[Endarire]

1:Why do you recommend Wizard20 instead of Rogue1/Wizard8/Rogue+1/Wizard+X for a Sun Elf?

2: For a Pale Trapper, how important are summon spells and the Skeletal Knight?

3: Does Augment Summoning affect the Skeletal Knight? When is this feat generally worth it for a pure Wizard or Pale Trapper?

4: What DC and spell penetration do I need to be at the levels of competitive and optimal in Epic Elites at 21 and 28?

5: For a negative energy-heavy build, why not put more points into Heal?

6: Reincarnation-wise: I was considering maxing out my Human Sorcerer then using reincarnation (which flavor) to return me to 20 (preferably) as a Sun Elf Wizard. Which is the optimal reincarnation path for someone focused on high-end content? (It also helps I bought the Shadowfell Conspiracy deluxe edition.) If I do reincarnate into an iconic, must I still use a Lesser Heart of Wood to remove the first preassigned level?

[EllisDee37]

1:Why do you recommend Wizard20 instead of Rogue1/Wizard8/Rogue+1/Wizard+X for a Sun Elf?
Because you have to LR+1 to remove the first cleric level, which makes the build quite expensive. If you're going to spend that much on a DC wizard, it only makes sense to min/max that wizard's DCs. Splashing 2 rogue is definitely not min/maxing your DCs.

2: For a Pale Trapper, how important are summon spells and the Skeletal Knight?
Not important.

3: Does Augment Summoning affect the Skeletal Knight? When is this feat generally worth it for a pure Wizard or Pale Trapper?
It does indeed affect the Skeletal Knight. It's only worth it on a human, first off, because they have an extra feat to burn. The pet is actually halfway decent up through around level 12 elites, plus in all cannith challenges.

4: What DC and spell penetration do I need to be at the levels of competitive and optimal in Epic Elites at 21 and 28?
For epic elites at level 21 you want at least high 50s DC, preferably 60; by 28 you'll want 66 or better. A pale trapper is simply not going to be able to reach that. For spell penetration, you'll want mid-50s (54 is a solid number to reach) for the low level epic elites. High level epic elites require no spell penetration at all, as far as I'm aware. (Low level epics are crawling with drow.)

5: For a negative energy-heavy build, why not put more points into Heal?
Skill points are tight; I put as many into heal as I could. Spellcraft is more important, IMO, but I could be swayed toward heal instead.


6: Reincarnation-wise: I was considering maxing out my Human Sorcerer then using reincarnation (which flavor) to return me to 20 (preferably) as a Sun Elf Wizard. Which is the optimal reincarnation path for someone focused on high-end content? (It also helps I bought the Shadowfell Conspiracy deluxe edition.) If I do reincarnate into an iconic, must I still use a Lesser Heart of Wood to remove the first preassigned level?Yes, a sun elf must spend a heart to remove the first cleric level. That means your sun elf life should be your very last life. If you're focused on high-end content as a DC caster, the first thing you should focus on is getting completionist. After you get completionist you can consider tacking on additional wizard/fvs lives for spell pen, sorc/cleric lives for DCs, etc...

Completionist isn't required, of course, but no single point of DC is specifically required. It's just that when all is said and done, getting the absolute maximum possible DC the game allows ends up with a functional DC caster that the endgame content is built around. Not having completionist puts you 1 DC below that if and only if you already have every other possible DC boost in the game.

[SirValentine]

I was considering maxing out my Human Sorcerer then using reincarnation (which flavor) to return me to 20 (preferably) as a Sun Elf Wizard.


That can't exactly be done, not in one step.

You could:

(Optional, if already 28: Epic Reincarnate back to level 20)
Heroic True Reincarnate out of Human Sorc
Start over as a brand-new character, Sun Elf Cleric 1 / Wiz 14
Lesser Reincarnate +1 to Sun Elf Wizard 15
Level up from 15

[Endarire]

I'm a Human Sorcerer16. Is it better for me to reach L28, or L20? If I reincarnate into an Iconic Sun Elf, do I start at L15?

If I do reincarnate at L28, what benefit do I get? If I True Reincarnate at L20, what benefit do I get?

[SirValentine]

I'm a Human Sorcerer16. Is it better for me to reach L28, or L20?


There's no "better", it depends on your goals and how much time(/money) you want to put into it.



If I reincarnate into an Iconic Sun Elf, do I start at L15?


Yes.



If I do reincarnate at L28, what benefit do I get? If I True Reincarnate at L20, what benefit do I get?


True Reincarnation, at level 20 (or any higher level) for normal races (only at 28 for Iconic races), gives you a Heroic Past Life Feat, and lets you create a new starting character (level 1 for normal races, level 15 for Iconic).

Epic Reincarnation takes you from leve 28 down to level 20, and gives you an Epic Past Life feat.

They are two totally different processes. It is a bit confusing that "Reincarnate" means so mean disparate things.

[Endarire]

What are the advantages to Wizard20 vs Rogue2/Wizard18? Rogue2 seems to capitalize on Evasion, Search, and Disable Device with splashes in more skills.

Also, what are the main advantages of each recommended Epic Destiny? Draconic seems best for DPS, Magister seems best for DCs, and Shiradi seems to try to paralyze foes. How does this recommendation of Epic Destiny change between Sorcerer and Wizard?

How effective is Wizard/Sorcerer blasting at level 21+?

If I go into level 21 content (on Normal or Hard) without farming/crafting gear first (meaning I just walk in, alone or in a group, with just 'pug' gear), how easily can I get spiffy ML20+ Wizard/Sorcerer gear at that point? I basically want to get to that point and catch up in gear.

What should I know about crafting items come level 21? I have 0 crafting experience in DDO.

What abilities exist for Wizards and Sorcerers to reduce the cooldown time of their spells and spell-like abilities?

[unbongwah]

What are the advantages to Wizard20 vs Rogue2/Wizard18?
+2 Spell Pen, +1 metamagic feat, more SPs, more spell slots, and capstone. Basically pure wiz is a better caster, Pale Trapper is more versatile and Evasion can be a lifesaver.

Also, what are the main advantages of each recommended Epic Destiny? Draconic seems best for DPS, Magister seems best for DCs, and Shiradi seems to try to paralyze foes.
Shiradi has two things going for it: all the extra free DPS from the various random procs; as well as free paralyzing.

[cru121]

Coming to wizard after 3 sorcerer evoker lives. Questions:

1) few posters suggested front-loading maximize, empower, and use missiles. any opinion on that?

2) any opinion on active sorc PL feat for the extra 10 hits of elemental SLA? metamagickable?

3) undead form: at what level start using it? can any hires still hjeal me while undead? are inflict serious wounds pots available somewhere?

4) Inflict wands/scrolls, are they sold? Not worth the UMD?

5) Gear (beyond tower shield). The ML15, +8 Int goggles from Shadowfell sound like must have. Where do I slot my nullification? Flexible lore looks like something nice to craft. Any challenges twink items? Don't have any mabar gear.

6) Blasting. When necro is not viable. Any recommended element to focus on? Or use universal potency?

[EllisDee37]

few posters suggested front-loading maximize, empower, and use missiles. any opinion on that?
I greatly prefer using the web sla with free heighten than magic missle with free maximize/empower.

any opinion on active sorc PL feat for the extra 10 hits of elemental SLA? metamagickable?
My first impression is no, but I can't say from experience.

undead form: at what level start using it? can any hires still hjeal me while undead? are inflict serious wounds pots available somewhere?
I start using it at wizard level 3. Zombie form is quite nice, and does NOT give any movement penalty. No hires can heal you in undead form. Inflict pots are available from collectable turn-in. Specifically funerary tokens, which are common and plentiful.

4) Inflict wands/scrolls, are they sold? Not worth the UMD?
You can buy wands in house phiarlan, but they seemed kind of crappy to me when I used them on my first life. However, that's a valid use for umd, so that's another reason to justify umd if you want it for resurrection scrolls and casting greater restoration/heal on other party members.

5) Gear (beyond tower shield). The ML15, +8 Int goggles from Shadowfell sound like must have. Where do I slot my nullification? Flexible lore looks like something nice to craft. Any challenges twink items? Don't have any mabar gear.
For late heroic/early epic levels I'm a big fan of the darkstorm helm. At endgame, one of the raid-crafted weapons with 150 nullification is hard to beat.

6) Blasting. When necro is not viable. Any recommended element to focus on? Or use universal potency?
Acid + cold is a pretty strong combo, but lightning is also good, particularly for dots. That's part of the reason I like darkstorm helm so much. For acid, rock boots can't be beat while leveling. Frozen tunic is similarly strong for cold. For a final endgame gearset, I would check out Andoris' pale master thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide).

The challenge gear (rock boots, frozen tunic, bracers of wind) is literally the best spell power available in the game while leveling. Spell power 90 at ML15 even without masterful; ML13 with masterful brings it into ludicrously good territory.

[Endarire]

For levels 21-28 (but especially for 21ish), what school should I emphasize as a Sorcerer? I like blasting (and am primarily an Air Savant with a minor as a Fire Savant for wall of fire), but I've heard Enchantment is the school to max the DC for in Epic.

I probably also need lots of Epic gear to make my DCs high enough for things to be worthwhile for Epic Elite instances, and perhaps also for Epic Normal/Epic Hard.

[EllisDee37]

5) Gear (beyond tower shield). The ML15, +8 Int goggles from Shadowfell sound like must have. Where do I slot my nullification? Flexible lore looks like something nice to craft. Any challenges twink items? Don't have any mabar gear.
For late heroic/early epic levels I'm a big fan of the darkstorm helm. At endgame, one of the raid-crafted weapons with 150 nullification is hard to beat.I forgot to mention Staff of the Necromancer, which is an excellent early epic nullification + DC + spell penetration quarterstaff.



For levels 21-28 (but especially for 21ish), what school should I emphasize as a Sorcerer? I like blasting (and am primarily an Air Savant with a minor as a Fire Savant for wall of fire), but I've heard Enchantment is the school to max the DC for in Epic.

I probably also need lots of Epic gear to make my DCs high enough for things to be worthwhile for Epic Elite instances, and perhaps also for Epic Normal/Epic Hard.I've never played a sorcerer. General questions about arcane casting should probably go in a different thread. This is a build thread, devoted to a specific build.

[pappo]

Only level 2 so I have no results to report yet. One rogue past life and starting with 18 int and a +5 int tome to keep all the trapping skills as high as possible. By the planner, I can keep concentration, spellcraft, spot, search and disable within a point or two of max ranks; only open lock is low. I'm just a casual player in a static group, so I'm not planning for any 'end game'. Took rogue then 12 wizard before the second level of rogue at 14 so I can get vampire form as soon as possible. Might move a few points around but I want at least lich form, strong skeleton and Tensor's.


I was wondering how your EK version worked out ? It looks like a fun build.
What weapons did you fight with ?
I am also in a static group, and my next life I have to be the Wizard and your build looks like a nice change from a normal Pale Trapper. I would appreciate any feedback you can provide.

[cru121]

My variant Pale Trapper just hit level 5. Well, considering that I picked other feats early, it's somewhat different, more like living evoker. Drow.

Level1: Insightful Reflexes. I let the lvl1 barb hire do the killing in Korthos village.

Level2: Maximize. Wearing Robe of Duality for +2 Caster Levels. Invested my first AP into invisibility SLA. Gained half level in ~5 runs of Stealthy Repo. Gained second half in Korthos wilderness, with Skeletal pet and the barb hire. Meh DPS, I ended up throwing Shadow Star.

Level3: PL:Arcane Prodigy (sorcerer). I now have _some_ personal DPS:
* Archmage SLA: I tried evocation for magic missiles. It was meh. I respecced to Chill Touch. Kills most mobs with free Maximize.
* Necro SLA: I tried them and discarded them
* Arcane Prodigy past life clickie (10 times per rest cast ray of random element): okayish damage with Maximize. Travels slowly, medium range, target can sidestep it.
* Spells: Sonic Blast (cooldown feels glacial after sorcerer lives), Shocking Grasp
Did most of the Harbor lvl twos with lvl3 barb hire. Was using some Aid clickies to keep hire and skelly alive. Shoulda bought Repair wand. Sonic Blast the goto spell in pugs. And everywhere.

Level4: Zombie form? I am not seeing it. -2 Int. Lose the ability to drink CSW. Gain the ability to waste 15 spell points for weak heal over time. I guess the immunities are nice. I'll try again with more nullification gear. Spells: using Scorching Ray in addition to the earlier spells.
Wasted some time/exp in a pug with a lvl 8. Bah. Ran some Tangleroot/3BC wilds as a zombie. Respecced, most of my AP is in the Skelly tree.

Level5. Got me some gear from my crafter. So far, so good.

[EllisDee37]

I never used a dps hire on my wizard lives. Levels 1-3 I killed most everything with un-meta'd niac's cold ray, plus burning hands and/or acid spray for skeletons. Once I hit level 4 I add scorching ray to pair with niac's and go to town with those until I can replace niac's with frost lance. Once I get firewall it's all webby firewalls, all the time. Adding acid rain on top of it for extra killing goodness.

Zombie form is fantastic if you're using the skeleton pet, since you'll want to use the weak aura to heal the pet anyway. The DR is quite effective, and getting heavy fort at level 4 certainly doesn't suck.

[scott75209]

call me crazy/blind but i'm not seeing Improved Empower in the tree. Does it have another name?

Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower I
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower II
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower III

[EllisDee37]

call me crazy/blind but i'm not seeing Improved Empower in the tree. Does it have another name?The archmage tree has two different Efficient Metamagic multi-selectors in tier 2.

[imblo99]

Ok I am confused where is the most up to version of this build ever post I find sends me to a updated version and then back to this one. Is there a Final?

Ok I am looking at only the first 20 levels of this build as its it just for crafting support (soul stones) and past life. I like that this was kept simple as far as tombs. Since I only want 20 levels of play and making my green steel do my 20 shrouds get my TR wood. Would this build Do what I need. I have never been a good at playing a Wiz never liked Pale master but since i don't want to embarrass myself sole is very important.

Also what hirelings should I use for best support while in solo play I have 32 point vet build and would like to make 1 change move my 2nd level rogue to 2nd level to get my evasion as soon as I step out the door, would that break the build?

Should I make any other changes to further enhance my matt farming of trap part and soul stones

[EllisDee37]

Ok I am confused where is the most up to version of this build ever post I find sends me to a updated version and then back to this one. Is there a Final?This is the updated version of the older build.


Ok I am looking at only the first 20 levels of this build as its it just for crafting support (soul stones) and past life. I like that this was kept simple as far as tombs. Since I only want 20 levels of play and making my green steel do my 20 shrouds get my TR wood. Would this build Do what I need. I have never been a good at playing a Wiz never liked Pale master but since i don't want to embarrass myself sole is very important.Yep, it solos great and is an excellent farmer for shroud, tokens of the twelve and soul gems.


Also what hirelings should I use for best support while in solo play I have 32 point vet build and would like to make 1 change move my 2nd level rogue to 2nd level to get my evasion as soon as I step out the door, would that break the build?I never use hirelings on my casters. The exception to that is I carry 2-3 different hires with divine vitality, and if I end up mana-less in a long quest I ddoor back to the start and summon all 3 hires, one after the other, using all their divine vitality charges then immediately dismissing them. Good for 1000+ mana, and could theoretically be done every 5 minutes.

I wouldn't move the rogue level up to 2 for a couple reasons. First is that it delays your 2nd, 3rd and 4th level spells, all of which hurts. More importantly, though, is that your skills will suffer because the second rogue level lets you "catch up" on skills we let slack off during the low levels. Notice in the build as written that disable device and search are raised 5 ranks each with the second rogue level. You can't do that if you take rogue at level 2.

The reason we let search and disable slack off is because they're both int skills, and being a max int build those are the ones we can most afford to let slide for a bit.

[imblo99]

This is the updated version of the older build.

Yep, it solos great and is an excellent farmer for shroud, tokens of the twelve and soul gems.

I never use hirelings on my casters. The exception to that is I carry 2-3 different hires with divine vitality, and if I end up mana-less in a long quest I ddoor back to the start and summon all 3 hires, one after the other, using all their divine vitality charges then immediately dismissing them. Good for 1000+ mana, and could theoretically be done every 5 minutes.

I wouldn't move the rogue level up to 2 for a couple reasons. First is that it delays your 2nd, 3rd and 4th level spells, all of which hurts. More importantly, though, is that your skills will suffer because the second rogue level lets you "catch up" on skills we let slack off during the low levels. Notice in the build as written that disable device and search are raised 5 ranks each with the second rogue level. You can't do that if you take rogue at level 2.

The reason we let search and disable slack off is because they're both int skills, and being a max int build those are the ones we can most afford to let slide for a bit.

Ok thanks sounds good to me then I will follow this for the most part as is.

Also I Have a +1 con tomb in the bank if i was to use that at 3rd level I could got with 15 con and gain 2 point to spend on another stat like Wisdom and end up with

14 str
8 dex
16 con
18 int
10 wis
8chr
would that help the build at all

One last question just for the sake of not being a dead copy could u use Half elf with out any ill side effects that would break the build?

[EllisDee37]

Ok thanks sounds good to me then I will follow this for the most part as is.

Also I Have a +1 con tomb in the bank if i was to use that at 3rd level I could got with 15 con and gain 2 point to spend on another stat like Wisdom and end up with

14 str
8 dex
16 con
18 int
10 wis
8chr
would that help the build at all

One last question just for the sake of not being a dead copy could u use Half elf with out any ill side effects that would break the build?Any race will work, but you'll be tight on skill points. Humans, drow and morninglord get +1 skill point per level compared to the other races. (Drow and morninglord by virtue of starting with 20 int.) The human bonus feat is largely thrown away on a lackluster toughness feat, so it's fine to lose that.

Wisdom doesn't do much of anything for a pale master mainly because pale masters in form are flat-out immune to almost anything that has a will save. The build was originally written as 18 int /18 con with all other stats 8, if that's any indication of the relative importance of the other stats. I decided to move 6 points over to strength only because it's super annoying to keep getting burdened (lose evasion) and being unable to pull so many levers. It feels like eberron is littered with 17 strength levers.

Really, 10 strength is sufficient, though. If you want to move 3 strength over to 1 con (for 17) and use your tome to even it out that'd be fine. 11 strength in this context is a tangible improvement over 10 strength by virtue of the increased carrying capacity.

[imblo99]

Any race will work, but you'll be tight on skill points. Humans, drow and morninglord get +1 skill point per level compared to the other races. (Drow and morninglord by virtue of starting with 20 int.) The human bonus feat is largely thrown away on a lackluster toughness feat, so it's fine to lose that.

Wisdom doesn't do much of anything for a pale master mainly because pale masters in form are flat-out immune to almost anything that has a will save. The build was originally written as 18 int /18 con with all other stats 8, if that's any indication of the relative importance of the other stats. I decided to move 6 points over to strength only because it's super annoying to keep getting burdened (lose evasion) and being unable to pull so many levers. It feels like eberron is littered with 17 strength levers.

Really, 10 strength is sufficient, though. If you want to move 3 strength over to 1 con (for 17) and use your tome to even it out that'd be fine. 11 strength in this context is a tangible improvement over 10 strength by virtue of the increased carrying capacity.

So now i a bit confused again

so them strength would be the best place to move the extra point

15 str
8 dex
16 con +1 tomb at 3
18 int
8wis
8chr

or

14 str
8 dex
17 con +1 tomb at 3
18 int
8 wis
8chr

I guess I am asking the best way to use the +1 con tomb at level 3

I know this don't call for tombs but as I get them I will ad what I can

I do have another +3 int I could use at 11 as well but it was planned for my arti but he is made in more of a craft toon

I am a bit a clutz on a wiz so maybe I should just put the extra on +1 con and follow the build and be done with this Human rogue 1st level just like the build calls and add the plus 1 can at 3 and call it good keep it simple and that puts it that much closer to the 18 int 18 con it was to be in the first place then if i like it add the +1 con upgrade at 7 then it waould end up 18/18 like it was meant to be..I will know if I like the build by 7 level I am sure

also how important is umd to this build is like most try to get as much as possible or is the set number we are shooting for in umd Opps it looks like there is no UMD in the build so its not needed at all that seems odd but ok it not needed then

[EllisDee37]

14 str
8 dex
17 con +1 tomb at 3
18 int
8 wis
8chrClose, but there aren't enough build points. That 17th point in con costs 3, so you'd end up with:

11 str
8 dex
17 con +1 tome at 3
18 int
8 wis
8 chr

That would be my recommendation.


I do have another +3 int I could use at 11 as well but it was planned for my arti but he is made in more of a craft toonA +3 int tome would be a noticeable help for a pale trapper, but if you need it for your artie save it for the artie. I don't really know arties so can't say which would make better use out of it. I do know that a DC wizard makes great use of an int tome.


also how important is umd to this build is like most try to get as much as possible or is the set number we are shooting for in umd Opps it looks like there is no UMD in the build so its not needed at all that seems odd but ok it not needed thenI used to max umd on this build but would go for extremely long stretches (months and months) without ever using the skill. So I dropped it.

The main uses for UMD would be raise dead scrolls to raise other party members and umding Harm scrolls. I use a greensteel clickie for raise dead, and Harm scrolls aren't purchasable. Thus the long stretches of never using the skill.

[imblo99]

So here again u lose me I thought that having more str was better and having more con is always better

So the base Human 32 point build

15 str
08 dex
15 con
18 int
08 wis
08 chr

Ok I vet build

So at 3 level a just add the one con or start out with one less like 15 and add that one to STR base

15 str
08 dex
16 con
18 int
08 wis
08 chr
so the base stats no level ups would look like this it seems if u take away form str us will end up overburden all the time I thought we were shooting for 17 str for for pulling levers. This would put me 1 2+ str tomb away for that goal of a 17 at level 7 Base

what I have in mind was

+1 con at 3
+2 str at 7
+1 con upgrade at 7
and +3 int 11

ending up

base no level up at level 7
17 str
08 dex
17 con
18 int
08 wis
08 chr


at 11 level base
17 str
08 dex
17 con
21 int
08 wis
08 chr

Would this not shore up the build quite a bit I have the + 1 con and the +3 int that means buy 1) +1 con upgrade at 7 and 1) +2 str at 7

I would have till 7 level to see how I like the build and 11 to be sure before dumping my +3 int

I mean from the way it sounded in your post was that 17 was the magic number for str

then as much con and int as can afford or find

[EllisDee37]

So here again u lose me I thought that having more str was better and having more con is always betterNo, having more str is not better. Having 8 str is bad. Having 10 str is fine. Anywhere in the 11-12 range for strength would be ideal.

More con is always better.

11 strength +2 zombie +4 spell = 17 for levers, no item needed. Or, 11 base +6 item = 17. (And don't forget +2 from ship if you have it.)

[imblo99]

No, having more str is not better. Having 8 str is bad. Having 10 str is fine. Anywhere in the 11-12 range for strength would be ideal.

More con is always better.

11 strength +2 zombie +4 spell = 17 for levers, no item needed. Or, 11 base +6 item = 17. (And don't forget +2 from ship if you have it.)

so the day hes born it should look like this


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 4 True Neutral Human Female
(1 Rogue \ 3 Wizard)
Hit Points: 79
Spell Points: 228
BAB: 1\1
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 7
Will: 2

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 4)
Strength 11 11
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 17 18
Intelligence 18 19
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 4)
Balance 3 3
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 5 11
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 8 9
Haggle 3 3
Heal 1 2
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 4 4
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock 3 3
Perform 1 1
Repair 6 8
Search 8 9
Spellcraft 6 8
Spot 3 6
Swim 1 1
Tumble 0 0
Use Magic Device 3 3

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Conjuration I: Grease (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Energy of the Scholar (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Reaping (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 2)

[EllisDee37]

Yep, looks fine.

[imblo99]

Yep, looks fine.

I know I am a pain but what should my spells look like at 4 level

I figured this out I just looked up rare spells and take those, the rest u just buy and inscribe so that's why no one really talks about spells there not important

Thanks

[imblo99]

well his build and works just as described thanks for your help and posting this fine build

[lvillanueva5]

Hi EllisDee. I got your build from another post but seeing how this thread is still active, I thought I'd ask the creator the question:

A little background on my group. Normally, the group that I play with has a dedicated rogue, a couple of melee of some sort, ranged and me as a cleric. But we all decided to create new toons and this time around, our rogue player chose to play a cleric along with our melee (very sad face). So as it stands, we have 2 rangers, 2 clerics and me as an artificer (because we needed someone for traps and locks...).

Well...I'm already playing an artificer on my solo character and was really wanting to play a caster type, whether it was a wizard or sorc. Problem was, if I went caster, we'd lose the ability to disable traps, open locks, etc and that would just be a no go for the group.

Then I looked around and found the Pale Trapper build you posted which was also new player friendly as this would be a 1st life character.

Question is, will this build be as effective to trapping and unlocking as playing my artificer? And do you think it's possible to solo elite Korthos (with a hireling)? At least up to Misery Peak?

We only play once a week and we just started, so we've done all the quests up to Misery Peak on Elite (I've been unlocking since I'm a sub). So it wouldn't take me long to catch up to everyone, as we were only level 3, and then continue playing with the group as the Pale trapper instead of another arty.

We all have a +8 elite bravery bonus going in and I'd love for my wizard to have it also.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[EllisDee37]

Question is, will this build be as effective to trapping and unlocking as playing my artificer? It will be as effective in terms of skill checks; both this build and an artie trapper will no-fail everything. The Pale Trapper also gets evasion, so that's a nice bonus.


And do you think it's possible to solo elite Korthos (with a hireling)? At least up to Misery Peak?I've done it many times.

[lvillanueva9]

Thank you so much! that is exactly what I wanted to hear. And I managed to get to Misery Peak Solo elite so I'm caught up and ready to join my group.

edit: Spelling, because it's too early and I haven't had my coffee yet...

[Caprice]

As long as you max out the trapping skills you will match an Artificer fairly easily. A trapper of any type that focuses on Intelligence has a trapping advantage over DEX-based builds, since the 2 most important trapping skills are based off INT (i.e. Search & Disable Device). DEX-based builds have an advantage in Open Locks, but that is not nearly as valuable. The Pale Trapper is INT-based so it is at the head of the pack; most Arties and many Rogues also have a full or at least strong INT focus, but most other Rogue-splashed builds (e.g. trapping Rangers & Bards) are going to be STR- or DEX-based and will fall a little behind what you can do on the Pale Trapper.

FWIW I would actually recommend taking Human Skill Boost rather than Human Spellpower Boost on a Pale Trapper build, at least to start. I find the extra +4 to skills as needed is quite useful, but I hardly notice the spellpower bonus over time.

IMO the biggest "weakness" for trapping on a Pale Master is seen when comparing yourself to a deep Rogue build. Pure Rogues get +4 class Reflex saves over the Pale Trapper (or +6 vs a pure Arty) and also get Improved Evasion and Improved Uncanny Dodge. Improved Evasion is a great boost to survivability when you have to stand inside a tough trap in order to disable said trap since it will prevent a lot of damage on failed saves, and (Improved) Uncanny Dodge helps with Reflex saves on the harder traps and provides a bit of extra protection against interruption by ranged attackers. Any Evasion trapper (e.g. Pale Master, Rogue/Monk-splashed Artificer, but not a pure Artificer) will generally be able to do such traps but when something goes wrong (e.g. rolling a 1) the Rogue has extra layers of defense available. However except for a few rare and especially challenging traps these are luxuries to have, not necessities. OTOH a Pale Trapper can self-heal more readily than a Rogue so if the trap does not kill you instantly you can recover more easily.

[EllisDee37]

Agreed on all counts; well said.

One thing you pointed out...
FWIW I would actually recommend taking Human Skill Boost rather than Human Spellpower Boost on a Pale Trapper build, at least to start. I find the extra +4 to skills as needed is quite useful, but I hardly notice the spellpower bonus over time....my original thinking was that trapping skills will be no-fail without skill boost, meaning it would contribute literally nothing. But it could definitely help for picking high-DC locks, so I'm going to go ahead and make that change to the build proper.

[Caprice]

I mostly recommend it because I recently ran a 1st life Artificer and I found that I had trouble finding some of the traps on Heroic Elite difficulty until I activated Skill Boost. I had decent but not quite optimal Search items (e.g. tier 2 Cove Spyglasses). Once I found the traps disarming them was usually easy even if Skill Boost ran out (perhaps thanks to the tool bonuses?). Newer players who are focusing on Heroic Normal or Hard content probably do not need it at all, but if you are joining someone's Elite run or running quests over your level it can come in quite handy.

[SirValentine]

my original thinking was that trapping skills will be no-fail without skill boost, meaning it would contribute literally nothing.


Even if trapping skills are no-fail, Skill Boost is still a bonus 1% of base item prices on everything you vendor. :-)

[nem108]

Has anyone considered a build similar to this using the harper tree allowing int > to hit and damage? I imagine a magic assassin using invisibility to back stab, perhaps some CC spells, and enough AOE to smash through trash. A search on the forums turned up nothing along those lines. Is it not really viable? I am a brand new player to DDO so I know very little about either of those classes. My current highest toon is the Cleric fighter build also posted by Elissdee and while she is easy to play not being able to trap or open locks is frustrating for a mostly solo player (also cleaving my way through every quest is getting repetitive).

Its very difficult to know as a newb which of the builds on this forum are still up to date and feasible after all the changes.

[EllisDee37]

This one is still up to date, though I may change the archmage core focus from enchantment to necro. That's a minor issue, though.

Yep, a melee pale trapper using harper to get int for attack & damage is definitely viable. I would change the feats, though, to add in more melee feats.

[richieelias27]

This one is still up to date, though I may change the archmage core focus from enchantment to necro. That's a minor issue, though.

Yep, a melee pale trapper using harper to get int for attack & damage is definitely viable. I would change the feats, though, to add in more melee feats.

And to that end, you're probably best off going single weapon fighting.

It only takes 12 points to get both INT to hit and INT to damage, so definitely doable.

Also, I dont see this in the thread anywhere, but I just skimmed it so may have missed it: It is highly beneficial to a Pale-Trapper (or any wizard for that matter) to put a single rank into the skeleton. Even a single rank in and your skeleton is likely to have 2-3x more hitpoints than you, is considered to be wearing heavy armor for PRR and MRR purposes, and is very survivable even on heroic elite (this is with 2 splash levels, without the augment summon feat, and zero past lives).

Yes, its damage is ****, but you have:
A free/second lever puller (remember, a hireling cant heal you in PM form anyway, and they just make normal/hard harder than they are with you alone (damage from enemies and traps are multiplied based on group size on norm/hard). Your pet does not do this)
Something to take intial aggro (if you take the invis SLA from AM, then you can spend 1sp to auto-dump aggro onto your skeleton at any time)
Something to off-tank a boss while you deal with trash
A pet that auto heals so long as you have your aura on
Pets can get airship buffs (just select the buff-machine and tell your pet to use it. It will keep the buffs until it dies or you log out)

Just throw a blur and heroism/greater heroism on it, and along with your aura it is not likely to ever die on any difficulty before epic.
I honestly cannot find a better way to get that much utility out of just 2 points.

[EllisDee37]

Good point on the skeleton. I'll add that next time I update the build.

[Kriogen]

And to that end, you're probably best off going single weapon fighting.
..
I'd say quarterstaffs. Rogue acrobat has some great enhancements for qstaff.

But in any case you'd need feats for melee. That means less feats for magic. This build is very DC oriented, very caster build. Would the build then still be the same? Would DC based magic still be as good as it is now?

[richieelias27]

I'd say quarterstaffs. Rogue acrobat has some great enhancements for qstaff.

But in any case you'd need feats for melee. That means less feats for magic. This build is very DC oriented, very caster build. Would the build then still be the same? Would DC based magic still be as good as it is now?

Taking feats for 2HF works as well I suppose. The reason I figured on SWF is that it allows you to get caster bonuses from orbs while still wielding a solid melee weapon. Using quarterstaves you'll have to use other slots for your spell-boosting items. Also, going up the rogue TA tree + Harper tree starts to take points away from PM and AM. Still fully doable though, I'm sure.

I'm running a medium armor wearing, single weapon fighting 2FvS/18WizPM right now (full ranks into Heal is pretty sweet), It's a tight fit (that's what she said) but there are enough feats for both. You just have to be a little more focused on which DC you boost (And I had to drop cleave/gcleave). The Wizard bonus feats make this much easier.

[EllisDee37]

Acrobat staff build is a good thought, but I tend to agree that SWF with orbs would probably be better.

And yeah, turning this into a melee build (of any kind) would definitely require changing the feats around. At very least you'd want to drop the spell penetration feats to fit in some combat feats.

[unbongwah]

I think it largely depends on how many feats, APs, and stat pts you're willing to sacrifice for some melee DPS. I consider 2H weapons to provide the most bang-for-the-buck with only a couple of feats, namely Power Atk or Precision + Imp Crit. Whereas I consider SWF to be a 4- or 5-feat minimum investment to really reap the benefits: SWF x3, Power Atk or Precision, and possibly Improved Crit. If a staff build, 11 APs into Acrobat gets you +15% atk speed and Quick Strike; that is a fairly substantial increase in DPS for a relatively modest investment, particularly if you have some of the better named staves.

Wiz 15 / rog 5 is an option to pick up Staff Spec; but since that costs 32 APs and loses lvl 9 spells, it's a much bigger investment. Might be a fun option for, say, a WF battlemage to grind out your wiz PLs, though.

ETA: I'm presuming we're talking about someone who has access to Harper; this option is a lot less attractive without Know the Angles and Strategic Combat, ofc.

[richieelias27]

I think it largely depends on how many feats, APs, and stat pts you're willing to sacrifice for some melee DPS. I consider 2H weapons to provide the most bang-for-the-buck with only a couple of feats, namely Power Atk or Precision + Imp Crit. Whereas I consider SWF to be a 4- or 5-feat minimum investment to really reap the benefits: SWF x3, Power Atk or Precision, and possibly Improved Crit. If a staff build, 11 APs into Acrobat gets you +15% atk speed and Quick Strike; that is a fairly substantial increase in DPS for a relatively modest investment, particularly if you have some of the better named staves.

Wiz 15 / rog 5 is an option to pick up Staff Spec; but since that costs 32 APs and loses lvl 9 spells, it's a much bigger investment. Might be a fun option for, say, a WF battlemage to grind out your wiz PLs, though.

ETA: I'm presuming we're talking about someone who has access to Harper; this option is a lot less attractive without Know the Angles and Strategic Combat, ofc.

In my opinion, if you don't have harper it isnt worth it to try a melee wizard. With harper tree and full wizard feats (except spell pen) my melee dps actually competes with my trash-killer spell dps. Without it you wont be doing much without a heavy STR or DEX investment.

[cru121]

I have now my wizard life behind me (good riddance) but perhaps it could be worth mentioning somewhere that Inflict Serious Wounds potions are available for sale:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Inflict_Serious_Wounds

[Caprice]

Edit: Nvm. Apparently this is well known and has been the case for quite a while.

[Sanjinn]

The simplest method for leveling is to get a level-appropriate tower shield (but don't equip it), then cast aura & displacement and run around gathering up a dozen or so mobs, cast firewall or ice storm, equip the tower shield, then stand there in the middle of the aoe and shield block until everything is dead. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Displacement halves the incoming damage, aura keeps you healed, the aoe does the killing. Do not do any casting with a shield in your hand, do not ever cast negative energy burst except in the most dire circumstance, and aura should be doing very little of the damage against mobs.

The slightly more expensive but safer approach is to combine a lingering CC spell with this technique. I like to combine webs with firewall, dancing ball with ice storm. Note that firewall does not burn away webs, so cast them both in the same spot. Typically right where you're standing after gathering a bunch of mobs, then quickly switch to the shield and block.

Still more expensive but much faster is to add acid rain on top of whichever aoe (firewall or ice storm) you're using.

For 1 or 2 mobs I use frost lance and scorching ray. Turn maximize on for these; maximize only costs me 12 sp but even without an efficient trinket it'll still only cost you 16. Close enough. (Try to find a crafter to make you an efficient maximize II shard if you can't make one yourself.)

Tactics change at higher level; this is the basic idea from 8 to around 17, though. For levels 2-7, for the most part I just use un-meta'd frost lance and scorching ray on everything. Though with this build I might turn on empower for those levels. (Again with an efficient trinket to bring it down from 9 to 7 sp.)

First off thanks for the effort you put into your builds.

Now on to my noob questions. I have just returned to the game after a two year break. I got a warrior to 13 and a cleric to 11 back when the cap was 15 I think...

I get what you are doing strata wise but I am not familiar with the spells and their full names. What aura are you meaning? Displacement I am familiar with from pnp days. Frost lance and scorching ray for the lower levels, what's the rotation after 17? I plan to solo or duo with my wife for the most part, she would be on a tank or melee of some sort. We would use hirelings for heals and whatever else. She and I don't know anyone in the game any more (we play on Thelanis) and with my patience for idiots at -100 (that and starting to get old, not quite to the get off my lawn age but soon...) we just duo.

What spells should I buy for my spell book? What ones should I keep memorized all the time? I would like to farm gear for her level 8 Fighter and my Druid or my Cleric to help make leveling easier for us as a duo. So what spell rotations will I want to use solo or with a hirelings or two? My gear will suck pretty bad as well. A magi staff, a wizardy item, a power augment, thinking of some lite armor with a augment to reduce the spell fail chance so I can take advantage of the new armor stuff, prr and mrr, yes? Some resist type gear if I can get it.

Thanks for any and all information and answers to my questions.

[EllisDee37]

In terms of spell rotation in the higher level heroics...

For single targets, I'll usually use finger of death. If they can't be insta-killed, I'll use necrotic ray, polar ray and chain lightning. (Necrotic ray is the best single-target nuker.) Note that chain lightning is multiple target.

For groups, my first thought in heroics is generally circle of death. If that doesn't thin the group down enough I'll switch to cc+dps with dancing ball and ice storm, or web and firewall. For either of those, adding an acid rain on top of it is always nice.

For gear, the cannith challenge gear is as good as it gets for spell power and lore in heroic levels. Darkstorm helm is also nice.

You might take a look at my epic challenge farmer thread. That's a plain vanilla pure pale master, and has some tips (and video) for playing it. It also details a nice "starter" epic gearset that's easy to acquire.

I would recommend heading off to the portable hole and inscribing every purchasable scroll you don't already have in your spellbook. Then check the auction house for the ones you're still missing.

[Sanjinn]

In terms of spell rotation in the higher level heroics...

For single targets, I'll usually use finger of death. If they can't be insta-killed, I'll use necrotic ray, polar ray and chain lightning. (Necrotic ray is the best single-target nuker.) Note that chain lightning is multiple target.

For groups, my first thought in heroics is generally circle of death. If that doesn't thin the group down enough I'll switch to cc+dps with dancing ball and ice storm, or web and firewall. For either of those, adding an acid rain on top of it is always nice.

For gear, the cannith challenge gear is as good as it gets for spell power and lore in heroic levels. Darkstorm helm is also nice.

You might take a look at my epic challenge farmer thread. That's a plain vanilla pure pale master, and has some tips (and video) for playing it. It also details a nice "starter" epic gearset that's easy to acquire.

I would recommend heading off to the portable hole and inscribing every purchasable scroll you don't already have in your spellbook. Then check the auction house for the ones you're still missing.

Woah! That was a quick reply, thank you!

I have made some notes on the spells you mentioned above. The one spell/ability I am still curious about is the "aura" you mention in your blocking and AoE strategy. I will also look into that gear set on your other build as well, thank you. I am also starting to watch your videos for those challenges. Where is the best place to go to learn about the crafting? I am slowing building up storage of some crafting stuff that drops and would love to start working on leveling so I can enhance my wife's and my own gear.

I had no idea that inn, the portable hole, even existed. Pretty cool. Thanks for the heads up on it.

[EllisDee37]

The one spell/ability I am still curious about is the "aura" you mention in your blocking and AoE strategy.That's the Death Aura spell, an unpurchasable level 4 wizard spell. While it's running, it heals you every 2 seconds while in undead form. With extend, figure it lasts around 2-3 minutes at higher levels, and heals for between 50-100 every 2 seconds.

The only downside is that level 4 spells are super good, so it'll be tough decided which ones to take. The good ones:

Dimension Door
Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst (a large burst heal while in undead form)
Firewall
Ice Storm
Acid Rain
Fire Shield

You only get five level 4 spells at any one time, so it's a little painful winnowing down the list. First to go is fire shield, because that can be scrolled. None of the rest in the above list can be scrolled. Well, they can, but you can't buy scrolls for them from any vendor so you'll have to pay a fortune on the auction house and still wouldn't have an endless supply. If you're a pale master, you really really want both death aura and negative energy burst for your self-healing. I typically end up with:

Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst
Dimension Door (I'm addicted!)
Acid Rain
Firewall or Ice Storm (switching to the more appropriate one based on quest)

[Sanjinn]

That's the Death Aura spell, an unpurchasable level 4 wizard spell. While it's running, it heals you every 2 seconds while in undead form. With extend, figure it lasts around 2-3 minutes at higher levels, and heals for between 50-100 every 2 seconds.

The only downside is that level 4 spells are super good, so it'll be tough decided which ones to take. The good ones:

Dimension Door
Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst (a large burst heal while in undead form)
Firewall
Ice Storm
Acid Rain
Fire Shield

You only get five level 4 spells at any one time, so it's a little painful winnowing down the list. First to go is fire shield, because that can be scrolled. None of the rest in the above list can be scrolled. Well, they can, but you can't buy scrolls for them from any vendor so you'll have to pay a fortune on the auction house and still wouldn't have an endless supply. If you're a pale master, you really really want both death aura and negative energy burst for your self-healing. I typically end up with:

Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst
Dimension Door (I'm addicted!)
Acid Rain
Firewall or Ice Storm (switching to the more appropriate one based on quest)

Thank you for the reply and the answer to my aura question. Also thanks for sharing the spell information and giving me ideas on what spells are the most useful.

Thanks again.

[bonscott87]

I've run several variations of the Pale Trapper over the years and it's by far my favorite class to run. Right now running one "for fun" duo'ing with my wife, currently level 10 (8 wiz/2 rog). The for fun part is that I'm doing it as a Dwarf and I gotta say, that extra durability is pretty nice. Up until a couple levels ago I actually had more HP then her Pally. LOL

But I just got the Harper enhancement tree so I'm playing around with the base Harper build. I find myself melee a lot in my firewall and aura and found going EK or Acrobat really doesn't do it for me.

So I've spent the minimum 12 in the Harper tree to get both INT to attack and damage. And some pretty nice other things in there too like lots of extra spell points. Took the first EK one for the Eldrich Strike (I really love that thing). Minimum of 11 in AM to get Chain Missiles and the rest in Pale Master and will pretty much spend most of the rest of the points I think in PM with a few others scattered here and there.

So at level 10 I have Vampire form (love Vampire form, don't let anyone tell you otherwise :) ), Magic Missile and Chain Missile SLA's, and a +27 to attack and +17 to dmg with a staff. Currently have a Thaum. staff for all the bonus' but as I level up I have several named staff's I collected from another toon that was an Acrobat/Fighter. Eventually will move to Wraith and Lich of course.

Like what I have so far. I've always been a fan of the Missile SLAs, with the free heighten, empower and maximize they really do some damage at very little SP cost. Can spam those things all day. I can do decent damage to mobs while my Skelly and my wfie tank and DPS away. Don't know how well it would be in epics but certainly very doable heroic normal/hard/elite.

Anyone else do something similar yet?

[EllisDee37]

Andoris has a complete 18/2 wizard/rogue melee guide in the Shadovar Infiltrator (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/452538-Shadovar-Infiltrator) thread, using the Harper tree to get int to attack and damage.

[ystrion]

I tried this build to play with some friends (One barb, one cleric and a 2hFighter, so all we missed was a trapper/spell user), i've always been told i'd deal some damage at higher level, and i was able to have some fun once i unlocked Firewall.
But recently i started feeling more useless than ever, i have 33 spot/disable device and can't find traps anymore, i have less damage than anyone, i'm getting killed faster than anyone (and can't be healed by our cleric) and if i really want to deal dmg using some metamagic, i end up without spell point in a second.
I know i must be doing something wrod since i keep meeting people one shoting group of mob with a single "scorch", so how come i deal 150 dmg with a crit with all metamagic up, while everyone seems overpowered? i've got both fire lore and combustion (+60)

[EllisDee37]

Wizards aren't sorcs; nuking everything isn't your bread and butter. Your primary strengths are crowd control and (eventually) insta-kills.

Have you tried using crowd control, like web? Putting down a web and firewall in the same spot can be highly effective. (And if you have it as an SLA, it can be heightened for free.) Before you get firewall, web and then scorch works fairly well, but scorch isn't the greatest thing in the world without metamagics, and it gets pretty expensive with them.

One of the reasons sorcerers seems to have so much stronger fire spells than you is because they can take them (burning hands and scorch) as SLAs, which lets them apply metamagics for free. So their scorch, with both maximize and empower, costs them a total of 4 spell points to cast, and they can spam it every 5 seconds. Burning Hands with both maximize and empower cost them 2 SP and can be cast every 4 seconds.

[redoubt]

I tried this build to play with some friends (One barb, one cleric and a 2hFighter, so all we missed was a trapper/spell user), i've always been told i'd deal some damage at higher level, and i was able to have some fun once i unlocked Firewall.
But recently i started feeling more useless than ever, i have 33 spot/disable device and can't find traps anymore, i have less damage than anyone, i'm getting killed faster than anyone (and can't be healed by our cleric) and if i really want to deal dmg using some metamagic, i end up without spell point in a second.
I know i must be doing something wrod since i keep meeting people one shoting group of mob with a single "scorch", so how come i deal 150 dmg with a crit with all metamagic up, while everyone seems overpowered? i've got both fire lore and combustion (+60)

I have an 18 wiz/2 rogue sun elf. I just got to 28 yesterday with it. Take a look at Ellis's comments on tactics earlier in this thread and here below.


Wizards aren't sorcs; nuking everything isn't your bread and butter. Your primary strengths are crowd control and (eventually) insta-kills.

Have you tried using crowd control, like web? Putting down a web and firewall in the same spot can be highly effective. (And if you have it as an SLA, it can be heightened for free.) Before you get firewall, web and then scorch works fairly well, but scorch isn't the greatest thing in the world without metamagics, and it gets pretty expensive with them.

One of the reasons sorcerers seems to have so much stronger fire spells than you is because they can take them (burning hands and scorch) as SLAs, which lets them apply metamagics for free. So their scorch, with both maximize and empower, costs them a total of 4 spell points to cast, and they can spam it every 5 seconds. Burning Hands with both maximize and empower cost them 2 SP and can be cast every 4 seconds.

My wiz is a PM and keeps death aura up all the time. My first few hot bar buttons are:
1, Neg energy burst (I rarely use it, but I always keep my biggest heal under this button on all my characters so I don't ever screw that one up.)
2. Mass hold monster
3. Finger of Death
4. Wail
5. Circle of death.

The first 4 are the only ones I really every use in a hurry. That is to say while zerging and not stopping. If I need more than hold, fod and wail, I need to slow down and once I slow down I can access a much wider range of commands via hotkey and/or mouse click.

All my direct damage spells are on other bars and I use the mouse for them. I don't use them often though. For example, my 3rd bar down starts like this:
1. cold and lightning caster stick set.
2. niacs biting cold dot
3. Eladar's electric loop dot

I use these on bosses where my DC spells don't apply. I have a similar bar and caster stick setup for each damage type. My main weapon pair is enchant and necro so I covers all of my first and second bars.

All that said, my level 14sorc/4fvs does way more dps than my leel 28 wizard does. I believe this is what Turbine intends. So don't worry too much about that, just realize that wizards and sorcs have been pigeon holed into DC and DPS casting respectively.

Hopefully this helps ease your mind on the dps side.

On the trapskill side:

1. As you level you should have spot, search and disable items equal to you total level or better. i.e. at level 9 you should have +9 items to wear. Past level 15 you will be stuck at 15 until you get into epics and they you should hunt for +20 items.

2. You need to keep your wisdom and spot item on at all times. (Caveat for swapping while searching and disabling. Then put wisdom and spot back on.)

3. Use +5 tools. I know they are on the auction house. I think the free agent vendor also has some. Lastly, ask for them in party chat. Most people will happily pass them to you.

4. Get the feat Inisghtful reflexes.

5. If you did not max out search, spot and disable I would recommend doing an lessor reincarnation (or fix it at a TR.) To max them out take rogue at level 1. I like to take the second rogue level around 10 or 11 to help max out skills. You can max out many skills. Starting with max int I was able to max search, spot, disable, spellpower, umd and heal (boost neg energy). I use the knock spell instead of OL.

6. Use Greater heroism. Carry the spell or carry scrolls. its basically a low cost +4 boost to all your skills and your reflex save.

An int tome can help, but I ran this life with the same +4 int tome he has had for a while now. I've never come close to missing a trap. If you are able to do the other things I have suggested, you can trap anything without the tome. It will be nice if for extra margin if you are running elite at level or want to run EE content. (And for up to a +3 boost to your spell DCs.)

As an idea of where you should be at say level 10.
Int: 18 start +2 level ups +3 enhancement, +5 item = 28 for a +9 bonus
Wis: 12 + 4 item = 16 for a +3 bonus
Skills should be at 13 ranks.

Spot: 13 ranks, +3 (wis) +10 item +4 GH = 30. I'll be honest, spot is tough and you will likely ride right on the edge of having enough spot. If you can squeak in a +6 item and a +2 tome it helps.
Search & disable: 13 ranks +9 (int) +10 item +4 GH + 1 luck (voice of the master) = 37

These numbers should get the job done. Continue using the best skill items available at each level. I often will use the same caster sticks for many levels in a row and get by, but the trap skills need to be kept up at each level if you are trying elite content.

All of this should be doable with a first life build. It looks like you run in a static group and that is great. Use crowd control and let the fighter and barb be a good chunk of your dps. Both of them will love when you use holds due to the bonus damage and the cleric will love you for using any CC because it reduces the healing load. As an example, I will run out front (this doesn't mean drawing extra agro to myself) and put down CC at the doors. When the door opens the mobs step into the CC. I'll use insta kill spells on the ones who save against the CC while melee kill all the mez'd mobs. In this way I get to play a CC caster without sacrificing offense.

Hope this helps.

[EllisDee37]

It's also worth pointing out that levels 1-7 are your most underpowered. Things pick up at 8 when you get firewall, and continue to get better from there as you add in evasion, dancing ball, circle of death, finger of death and wail.

[ystrion]

Thanks everyone for your answers,
Since i've been following the build almost perfectly, i knew it was something i was doing wrong, i'm gonna go for more CC and let you know how usefull i feel ^^
As for the traps i've got 33 search and disable device at level 9 so i think we've been doing quest to hard for me (11 or 12 going up to 13 to 14 in elite)

But now i have an other question : if we are based on CC and instabnt death, why do we take empower and maximize?

[redoubt]

Thanks everyone for your answers,
Since i've been following the build almost perfectly, i knew it was something i was doing wrong, i'm gonna go for more CC and let you know how usefull i feel ^^
As for the traps i've got 33 search and disable device at level 9 so i think we've been doing quest to hard for me (11 or 12 going up to 13 to 14 in elite)

But now i have an other question : if we are based on CC and instabnt death, why do we take empower and maximize?

You're in pretty deep!

That's not a bad thing really, but you are up to 5 levels under level. That is a long way and even more at the sub level 10 point where casters tend to be underpowered anyway.

If you want to run there, I'd suggest picking up a skill boost for when you are doing traps. Spot is just going to be tough. To run that under level, I recommend picking up some spot, search and disable enhancements from the rogue trees. I'd even say that tomes might be in order to help boost you up. I'd really push for +6 item in INT and WIS as well.

You will also feel underpowered in DC casting as well, because you are. Something to keep in mind is that the steps from normal to hard and hard to elite add more than a levels worth of difficulty with each step. By that, I mean that (in general) a level 9 on elite (considered 11) will be harder than a level 11 on normal. When you add all this up, when you are running a level 12 quest on elite (14), I probably has saves and CR values a level or two higher than that even. I think there is good reason that you feel underpowered.

On my DC caster I only have maximize (sometimes you just need damage.) Along with that I have, quicken, heighten, extend, enlarge, SF: ench & necro, GSF: ench & necro, Epic SF: ench

Good luck and let us know how it goes or if you have more questions.

[EllisDee37]

But now i have an other question : if we are based on CC and instant death, why do we take empower and maximize?While leveling they're useful for AoE DOTs like firewall, but the main reason is for rednames, who are immune to both CC and instakills.

[ystrion]

Quick update :
i've been using more CC and wasting less SP, i found an awesome wand in "diplomatic impunity" and i've been playing into lower level quest, i'm still not the most awesome wizzard ever but at leats i enjoy playing and i don't feel useless so that's really good.
Thanks again for the build and the advice, i can't wait to get the cool high level insta death spell (and my wraith form:p)

[Ancient]

But now i have an other question : if we are based on CC and instabnt death, why do we take empower and maximize?

This BUILD is based on CC and instant death. Palemasters mix quite nicely with archmage to produce a solid direct damage platform for shiradi... but that is a different build.

But the CC and Instant Death guides almost always claim the "Palemaster" tiitle :)

[Vulkoorex]

How well will a Drow Pale trapper do in EE? Assuming completionist, +6 tomes (when I buy it), and Epic completionist.

Is the DC impossible for instakill in EE?

[EllisDee37]

How well will a Drow Pale trapper do in EE? Assuming completionist, +6 tomes (when I buy it), and Epic completionist.

Is the DC impossible for instakill in EE?A pale trapper will be 1 DC and 2 spell pen behind a pure pale master, assuming both are the same race, due to the pale trapper not getting the capstone and having two fewer wizard levels.

The two rogue splash is more attractive now than it has been in the past due to various game changes. Andoris has two different pale master guides of interest:

Pale Master Guide (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/405017-Pale-Master-Guide) (pure)

Shadovar Infiltrator (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/452538-Shadovar-Infiltrator) (18/2 wizard/rogue)

Both are dc casters. The main difference is that the infiltrator splashes 2 rogue and switches to melee (using harper int to attack/damage) for red names.

[Caprice]

Note though that Andoris has posted a recommendation in that thread for a SWF Heavy Armor Wiz18/Ftr2 variant (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455033-Blade-of-Velsharoon) instead. The extra PRR/MRR from Heavy Armor makes EE content much more survivable.

[Archdruid_of_Malatos]

Is it possible to do a variation of this build like Artificer 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 18?

I was thinking of doing this for a first life and I would probably go drow and grab the -ASF enhancements so I could were full plate.

[pappo]

Is it possible to do a variation of this build like Artificer 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 18?

I was thinking of doing this for a first life and I would probably go drow and grab the -ASF enhancements so I could were full plate.

What are the -ASF enhancements ?

[Archdruid_of_Malatos]

Arcane fluidity for the -15%

[Caprice]

The Artificer 1 / Fighter 1 variant is viable, and IMO the superior choice right now. You get more spell points, a few okay spells (e.g. Enchant Weapon also grants +3 spellpower), bonus feats, and a lever puller for soloing a few quests where that's needed. Evasion is still useful but the PRR/MRR from heavier armors is almost always better.

[EllisDee37]

The Artificer 1 / Fighter 1 variant is viable, and IMO the superior choice right now. You get more spell points, a few okay spells (e.g. Enchant Weapon also grants +3 spellpower), bonus feats, and a lever puller for soloing a few quests where that's needed. Evasion is still useful but the PRR/MRR from heavier armors is almost always better.Agreed, but wizards already have their own lever puller for 2 AP.

[Archdruid_of_Malatos]

Agreed, but wizards already have their own lever puller for 2 AP.

Hes also quite useful for smashing doors.

Dos anyone know the lowest level I could feasible get no ASF full or half plate?

[Caprice]

Agreed, but wizards already have their own lever puller for 2 AP.
True, although you didn't take it in the listed enhancements. The skeleton also scales on Wizard levels so you can actually bring it out for combat purposes, which is nice. Its DPS is terrible with just 2 AP spent but so far I have been happy with its ability to distract enemies on my own PM Trapper (currently just back to epic levels) and as you say it pulls levers like a champ.

[Caprice]

Hes also quite useful for smashing doors.

Dos anyone know the lowest level I could feasible get no ASF full or half plate?
If you are talking about absolute minimum, then Cannith Crafting is your friend. You can craft Twilight and Greater Twilight armor to make that happen pretty early. Mastercrafted Twilight is -10% ASF and ML:2, and Mastercrafted Greater Twilight is -20% ASF and ML:6 (assuming nothing else on either). Neither bonus will stack with any other item bonuses (e.g. Seven Fingered Gloves, Augments) but are available much earlier. Fortunately both can be crafted in "unbound" form and traded; unbound Twilight is Arcane 35 and unbound Greater Twilight is 95, and neither recipe requires unusual ingredients, so finding a crafter who can do them should be pretty easy if you cannot yourself.

On the enhancement side the low hanging fruit in EK are the Wizard level 3 Core for -5%, and the tier 2 Light Armor Proficiency is worth another -5%. The next available is the tier 4 Medium Armor Proficiency for another -5%, but that takes 22 AP and thus a minimum of level 6. After that it's another -5% in the Wizard level 12 Core or the tier 5s (-15% possible, but locks you out of better trees). Elves, Drow, Half-Elves, and Sun Elves can get -15% for 4 AP (incl. the base point) as early as level 1.

So for an elf-type, with 6 AP in EK and 3 into the racial tree you can wear Mastercrafted Twilight Half Plate at level 3 (30% ASF - 30% in reductions = 0%). You can upgrade to Mastercrafted Greater Twilight Full Plate at level 6 and free up some AP in the process since you exceed what you need (35% ASF - 40% in reductions).

Non-elves have to wait until level 6 minimum to wear Mastercrafted Greater Twilight Half Plate and invest 8 AP into EK for both early ASF reductions (30% ASF - 30% in reductions). They have to wait until level 12 to upgrade to Full Plate, as they need at least one of the level 12 core from EK and/or the tier 5 EK enhancements (which also require level 12). The latter choice locks you out of better trees for this sort of build but you would no longer need the crafted armor as you can hit -35% just from the EK tree at that point.

[EllisDee37]

While updating the formatting of the build I've made a few minor changes.

The new concept is to use the Archmage Chill Touch SLA (w/maximize and empower) in the early levels as your bread and better, so I swapped Maximize with Spell Focus: Enchantment to get the metas asap. This also means we no longer need any enhancement resets while leveling.

I dropped the fifth archmage core (which isn't as useful in the necro school) in favor of a second human action boost.

Here's the previous version for comparison, or reference if you're in the middle of leveling:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Pale Trapper
Level 28 Human
(18 Wizard / 2 Rogue / 8 Epic)

Abilities 28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt
Strength 10 14 10 12
Dexterity 8 8 8 8
Constitution 16 16 18 18
Intelligence 18 18 18 18
Wisdom 8 8 8 8
Charisma 8 8 8 8

Skills Ranks
Concentration 23
Spellcraft 23
Heal 7
Repair 4
Perform 2
Search 23
Spot 23
Disable Device 23
Open Lock 5
Balance 4
Jump 4
Haggle 4
Swim 2
Tumble 1
UMD 1

Feats
1 : Insightful Reflexes
1H: Toughness
2W: Empower Spell
3 : Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
6 : Extend Spell
6W: Heighten Spell
9 : Maximize Spell
12 : Spell Penetration
12W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
15 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
17W: Quicken Spell
18 : Greater Spell Penetration
21E: Epic Spell Penetration
24E: Great Ability: Intelligence
26E: Nullification +20
27E: Great Ability: Intelligence
28E: Toughness

Magister
Intelligence VI
Unearthly Reaction II
Necromancy Specialist III
Sigil of Energy Negation II
Piercing Spellcraft III
Arcane Adept
Twist 1: Energy Burst
Twist 2: Endless Faith


Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Repair (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Enhancement: AM Core: Grease
Enhancement: AM1: Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: AM1: Spell Critical
Enhancement: PM Core: Dark Reaping


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower I
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower II
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower III


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM1: Deathless Vigor I
Enhancement: PM1: Deathless Vigor II


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Zombie
Enhancement: AM Core: Web
Enhancement: PM1: Negative Energy Conduit I
Enhancement: PM1: Negative Energy Conduit II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: PM1: Deathless Vigor III
Enhancement: PM1: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Vampire
Enhancement: AM Core: Stinking Cloud
Enhancement: AM3: Intelligence


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM3: Intelligence


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize I
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize II
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize III


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM4: School Mastery: Conjuration
Enhancement: PM2: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM4: Intelligence
Enhancement: PM3: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: AM4: Improved Heighten I
Enhancement: AM4: Improved Heighten II


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM1: Negative Energy Conduit III
Enhancement: PM4: Intelligence
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Versatility: Skill Boost


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Wraith
Enhancement: AM Core: Dimension Door
Enhancement: PM4: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Archmage Tree Reset
Enhancement: AM Core: Hypnotism
Enhancement: AM1: Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: AM1: Spell Critical
Enhancement: AM Core: Otto's Resistable Dance
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower III
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize III
Enhancement: AM Core: Hold Person
Enhancement: AM3: Intelligence
Enhancement: AM Core: Charm Monster
Enhancement: AM4: Improved Heighten II
Enhancement: AM4: School Mastery: Enchantment
Enhancement: AM4: Intelligence
Enhancement: AM3: Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: AM3: Spell Penetration II


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM2: Spell Critical


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: PM2: Improved Quicken I
Enhancement: PM2: Improved Quicken II
Enhancement: PM2: Improved Quicken III


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: PM5: Necromantic Focus
Enhancement: PM5: Improved Shrouding


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM3: Spell Critical
Enhancement: AM4: Spell Critical


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: AM Core: Hold Monster
Enhancement: H1: Human Adaptability: Intelligence


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic Spell Penetration


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Great Intelligence


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Nullification +20


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Great Intelligence


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

<End of Build>

[Janus-SOK]

Any suggestions for dealing with Beholders solo? I just tried to solo Invaders at level 11 on Normal, because that seems to be the only source of a +Search item for me right now, and it's making me want to give up on this character. I got the part where you get ambushed by 3 at once, and just couldn't deal with it. It seems like a ton of meta knowledge is required to be an effective arcane caster, and I'm really regretting making this my first life character at the moment.

[EllisDee37]

Rays have a longer range than beholder anti-magic. Assuming your draw distance is set high enough, you can kill them at distance safely using necrotic ray and polar ray. (Or scorching ray and frost lance or whatever.)

Of course, depending how many there are to kill in any one room, you might find yourself running backward to stay out of their anti-magic range, but it does work, particularly in Invaders!

For single beholders in small rooms where you can't easily stay out of range, circle behind them. Their antimagic field is cone-shaped, generated from their big eye, so there's no anti-magic field behind them. If you can get behind them, you can finger them quite easily. (No spell resistance and super low fortitude saves.)

EDIT: Regarding a search item, crafted is your best bet. Go into either crafting hall and ask if anyone can make you an unbound search +13 shard if you supply the mind essences. (Get the mind essences first.) If you're on Argo I'd be happy to make you one.

[Janus-SOK]

Rays have a longer range than beholder anti-magic. Assuming your draw distance is set high enough, you can kill them at distance safely using necrotic ray and polar ray. (Or scorching ray and frost lance or whatever.)

Of course, depending how many there are to kill in any one room, you might find yourself running backward to stay out of their anti-magic range, but it does work.

Thanks, I'll have to look for a run speed item to make that easier.

[Caprice]

Rays are really useful in Invaders but not in the spot that Janus-SOK is talking about, if it is the one I think it is. There are 3 beholders at a 4-way intersection, all linked for aggro, and because of the corners you can only kill one before the other 2 aggro on you and trap you in their anti-magic fields. Since there are 2 still alive the circle-strafe thing doesn't work very well, and since it is a narrow corridor you are pretty much stuck in the antimagic fields if you back up. It's a rough spot for a caster. I'd suggest picking up the skeleton pet and sending it in first, while you are stealthed at the top of the ramp or just behind the little pillar that juts out into the corridor, and then popping out with spells once the pet has aggro. You'll probably only get a couple off before you get aggro because of the "kill the casters" biased AI, but that may buy you enough time to whittle them down to one so you can circle-strafe the last (if you can get that to work). If you don't have the skeleton then you might try buying a Warforged Barbarian or Fighter hireling and send them in to get aggro first. Being WF they are not affected by some of the beholder rays, and you can Repair them if you slot appropriate spells and/or buy cheap wands. They probably won't last long against 3 beholders but you are just buying a little time.

If it is any consolation I believe Invaders is considered one of the hardest at-level quests in heroics.

I'll echo EllisDee37's crafting offer but for Sarlona. I can only craft the +10 skill shards myself, but I have guildies who can make +13s that are generally happy to help out.

[Janus-SOK]

Rays are really useful in Invaders but not in the spot that Janus-SOK is talking about, if it is the one I think it is. There are 3 beholders at a 4-way intersection, all linked for aggro, and because of the corners you can only kill one before the other 2 aggro on you and trap you in their anti-magic fields. Since there are 2 still alive the circle-strafe thing doesn't work very well, and since it is a narrow corridor you are pretty much stuck in the antimagic fields if you back up. It's a rough spot for a caster. I'd suggest picking up the skeleton pet and sending it in first, while you are stealthed at the top of the ramp or just behind the little pillar that juts out into the corridor, and then popping out with spells once the pet has aggro. You'll probably only get a couple off before you get aggro because of the "kill the casters" biased AI, but that may buy you enough time to whittle them down to one so you can circle-strafe the last (if you can get that to work). If you don't have the skeleton then you might try buying a Warforged Barbarian or Fighter hireling and send them in to get aggro first. Being WF they are not affected by some of the beholder rays, and you can Repair them if you slot appropriate spells and/or buy cheap wands. They probably won't last long against 3 beholders but you are just buying a little time.

If it is any consolation I believe Invaders is considered one of the hardest at-level quests in heroics.

I'll echo EllisDee37's crafting offer but for Sarlona. I can only craft the +10 skill shards myself, but I have guildies who can make +13s that are generally happy to help out.

Yup, that's the exact spot! I did pick up the skeleton knight since I read in Ellis' Epic Challenge Farmer thread that it's really good for leveling up, but I didn't know about stealthing before sending it in to avoid aggro. The "kill the casters" AI became readily apparent when all the Beholders just ignored my hireling + pet even though I never cast a single spell. Although to be fair, when it comes to NPCs, I always kill the casters first too.

I'm actually on Sarlona as well, so maybe tonight I'll see how many Mind essences I have saved up.

[Postumus]

If you are talking about absolute minimum, then Cannith Crafting is your friend. You can craft Twilight and Greater Twilight armor to make that happen pretty early. Mastercrafted Twilight is -10% ASF and ML:2, and Mastercrafted Greater Twilight is -20% ASF and ML:6 (assuming nothing else on either). Neither bonus will stack with any other item bonuses (e.g. Seven Fingered Gloves, Augments) but are available much earlier. Fortunately both can be crafted in "unbound" form and traded; unbound Twilight is Arcane 35 and unbound Greater Twilight is 95, and neither recipe requires unusual ingredients, so finding a crafter who can do them should be pretty easy if you cannot yourself.

On the enhancement side the low hanging fruit in EK are the Wizard level 3 Core for -5%, and the tier 2 Light Armor Proficiency is worth another -5%. The next available is the tier 4 Medium Armor Proficiency for another -5%, but that takes 22 AP and thus a minimum of level 6. After that it's another -5% in the Wizard level 12 Core or the tier 5s (-15% possible, but locks you out of better trees). Elves, Drow, Half-Elves, and Sun Elves can get -15% for 4 AP (incl. the base point) as early as level 1.

So for an elf-type, with 6 AP in EK and 3 into the racial tree you can wear Mastercrafted Twilight Half Plate at level 3 (30% ASF - 30% in reductions = 0%). You can upgrade to Mastercrafted Greater Twilight Full Plate at level 6 and free up some AP in the process since you exceed what you need (35% ASF - 40% in reductions).

Non-elves have to wait until level 6 minimum to wear Mastercrafted Greater Twilight Half Plate and invest 8 AP into EK for both early ASF reductions (30% ASF - 30% in reductions). They have to wait until level 12 to upgrade to Full Plate, as they need at least one of the level 12 core from EK and/or the tier 5 EK enhancements (which also require level 12). The latter choice locks you out of better trees for this sort of build but you would no longer need the crafted armor as you can hit -35% just from the EK tree at that point.


If building a caster to use heavy armor, and these days why wouldn't you, I find going 19/1 Wiz/Art is a better way to go since I won't be able to use evasion anyway. This split gives you higher DCs, more SPs, and another pet you can use situationally to open things if you don't want to put enhancement points into the skeletal knight.

[EllisDee37]

Yup, that's the exact spot!Are you talking about at the very start, when you first go north?

I ask because I farmed Invaders! for over a dozen* runs on my pale masters (pale trapper and epic challenge farmer) trying to pull Tharkuul's Bane (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tharkuul%27s_Bane) for my swashbuckler life, but no joy. In all dozen runs I was able to kill pretty much all the beholders with the "ray and run" tactic, and would be happy to post a sample video, especially if it's the first encounter. (I'll always grab another chance at Tharkuul's Bane.) I ran it on elite in hopes for better drop rates, but of course it's still easier for an epic character with destinies to do elite than a level 11 to do normal.

The big advantage in Invaders! is that beholders can't fit through doorways.

*Plus another half dozen runs on my paladin, and even a few on my cleric. I got VERY sick of that quest after that couple days.


I'm actually on Sarlona as well, so maybe tonight I'll see how many Mind essences I have saved up.Check the auction house to help supplement, and in a pinch you can transmute body essences into mind at the crafting vendor opposite the bank/ah in the crafting hall. It's better not to transmute because it costs 2:1, and body are super useful (they're used for Disable Device and Open Lock shards), but it's an option.

An unbound Search +13 shard (which will make an ML11 item) costs 42 greater and 102 lesser mind essences.
You'll also need them to make you a +6 potential shard, which costs 75 lesser essences of any type. (Use fire, water, lawful, chaos, or evil essences for this, as they're the least useful.)

[Caprice]

If building a caster to use heavy armor, and these days why wouldn't you, I find going 19/1 Wiz/Art is a better way to go since I won't be able to use evasion anyway. This split gives you higher DCs, more SPs, and another pet you can use situationally to open things if you don't want to put enhancement points into the skeletal knight.
Wizard level does not affect spell DCs directly. DCs are based on the level of the spell itself, or when you are using Heighten the DC is based on the level of the highest spell you can cast. Wizard 18 or 19 won't make a difference since the maximum level of spells both can cast is level 9 spells. OTOH Spell Penetration is based on class levels so you do get an extra point of that for adding another Wizard level, and if you do take the skellie pet it gets another level too.

Fighter 1 saves you a feat because it grants Heavy Armor Proficiency innately, and adds a free bonus Feat - albeit not a particularly useful one since it is from the "Martial" list. Dodge seems to be the most useful choice to me.

Another choice would be Wizard 18/Artificer 1/Cleric 1. Cleric also grants Heavy Armor Proficiency, and it also unlocks the Heal skill so you can take more ranks. More Negative spellpower is always nice to have. However that's really only an issue for a 32+ point build with tomes as otherwise you won't have enough skill points to invest in it anyway.

For hilarity you could go Wizard 18 / Artificer 1 / Barbarian 1. +10% movement speed is nice on any build. However you do need to spend a feat on Heavy Armor, like the 19/1 version.

[Caprice]

Are you talking about at the very start, when you first go north?

I ask because I farmed Invaders! for over a dozen* runs on my pale masters (pale trapper and epic challenge farmer) trying to pull Tharkuul's Bane (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tharkuul%27s_Bane) for my swashbuckler life, but no joy. In all dozen runs I was able to kill pretty much all the beholders with the "ray and run" tactic, and would be happy to post a sample video, especially if it's the first encounter. (I'll always grab another chance at Tharkuul's Bane.) I ran it on elite in hopes for better drop rates, but of course it's still easier for an epic character with destinies to do elite than a level 11 to do normal.
No, not at the very start. It's at the far end of one side, I think the same side as the end fight but past it. If you pass the entrance to the end fight you go up a little rise that has a few stealthed render/hound mobs at the top, then it drops down into the triple cul-de-sac with the linked beholders.

[Postumus]

Wizard level does not affect spell DCs directly. DCs are based on the level of the spell itself, or when you are using Heighten the DC is based on the level of the highest spell you can cast. Wizard 18 or 19 won't make a difference since the maximum level of spells both can cast is level 9 spells. OTOH Spell Penetration is based on class levels so you do get an extra point of that for adding another Wizard level, and if you do take the skellie pet it gets another level too.

Fighter 1 saves you a feat because it grants Heavy Armor Proficiency innately, and adds a free bonus Feat - albeit not a particularly useful one since it is from the "Martial" list. Dodge seems to be the most useful choice to me.

Another choice would be Wizard 18/Artificer 1/Cleric 1. Cleric also grants Heavy Armor Proficiency, and it also unlocks the Heal skill so you can take more ranks. More Negative spellpower is always nice to have. However that's really only an issue for a 32+ point build with tomes as otherwise you won't have enough skill points to invest in it anyway.

For hilarity you could go Wizard 18 / Artificer 1 / Barbarian 1. +10% movement speed is nice on any build. However you do need to spend a feat on Heavy Armor, like the 19/1 version.

Right right. I had a brain fart. I meant wiz level will affect damage of spells and SLAs based on class level. You also get one more 9th level spell for 19 wiz and more SPs for 19 wiz/ 1 art.

There are other split combos as you point out that are probably better than 18/2 wiz/rog now.

[EllisDee37]

No, not at the very start. It's at the far end of one side, I think the same side as the end fight but past it. If you pass the entrance to the end fight you go up a little rise that has a few stealthed render/hound mobs at the top, then it drops down into the triple cul-de-sac with the linked beholders.Here's a sample video of me doing this section on my epic challenge farmer (pure pale master) on elite using the "ray and run" technique. I clear out those four beholders, then go one more room to demonstrate dealing with a beholder who refuses to leave his little cubbyhole.

It goes without saying that a level 21 with destinies will have an easier time on elite than a level 11 running on normal, but the concept is the same for both:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMzNnogtOMk

[EllisDee37]

Got a PM from a brand new player who doesn't have rights to post to this forum due to free player restrictions, so reproducing the questions by proxy:


I noticed that the build has a lot of issues with spell points running out at lower levels, especially in longer dungeons. Am I possibly doing something wrong or this is to be expected in the beginning?

As a general rule, don't use metamagics until they're fully improved, and even then I wouldn't always use them. That means for non-SLAs, in the early levels only use Empower, and as a rule of thumb I'd say only use them on AOE spells (eg: Scorch) and not on rays (eg: Scorching Ray).

Limiting your spells to the Chill Touch SLA (with both maximize and empower) and niac's cold ray (with no metamagics) in the very early levels can get you through most content.


When choosing the first wizard level (Collective character level 2 then) I have 4 AP banked to spend on enhancements. Your guide asks to allocate those points on the following: Chill Touch (AM), Energy of the Scholar I (AM), Spell Critical (AM), Dark Reaping (PM). However, 4 action points is not enough to get all of those enhancements. Again, is this is to be expected or am I doing something wrong?

By the end of level 2 you will have 8 AP total, so the guide lists 8 AP to be taken on level 2. (Having spent 0 AP on level 1.)


When and what spells/SLAs should I combine with metamagic feats? Using spells with empower and such seems to drain the spell point pool insanely fast. Wanting to use the metamagic feats with SLAs, however, requires to activate them, then cast Chill Touch (For example), then deactivate it to cast other spells. Is this something which is completely usual and I should just get used to activate/deactive my metamagic feats on the run or is there a simpler way of doing all this?

Metamagics are free when applied to SLAs, so apply all metamagics you can to all SLAs. After dragging an SLA or spell to a hotbar, if you right-click it you get a list of metamagics that you have and can be applied. I generally always set my metamagics this way. Be sure to go back and check them again when you take a new metamagic, as they don't show up until you have them.


When gaining the first Wizard level your guide suggests taking the following spells: Expeditious Retreat, Niac's Cold Ray, Burning Hands, Nightshield, Charm Person. However, when I leveled I got to choose 7 spells instead of 5. Are you suggesting those spells to be the ones prepared most of the time or is there an error in the amount of spells gained?

While leveling, you're being asked to inscribe spells, as opposed to slotting them for actual use. I recommend inscribing all spells each time you unlock a new spell level by purchasing scrolls. Some scrolls can't be purchased, so try to choose unpurchasable scrolls during leveling, then inscribe the rest. A list of unpurchasable scrolls can be found here (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Rare_Arcane_Scroll_List).

The spells listed in the build in the OP are the spells you actually slot, and are only rough guidelines. You will need to tailor those both to suit your playstyle, as well as for different quests. For example, some quests are populated mostly by skeletons (Delera's) which are natively immune to cold spells. So you could probably switch out any cold spells for something more useful when running those quests.


Whereas I really enjoy the build so far it seems that the damage output is very minimal in the lower levels. I understand that the build is mostly considered to be a CC build not a nuking one but the numbers I see make me question if Im doing something wrong or offensive spellcasters are developing reaaaaaally slowly as they usually are :)?

The first 2-3 levels are by far the weakest levels for this build, without a doubt. So much so that it's not a bad idea to just pick up a greatsword and use Master's Touch to swing away. If you do not have Master's Touch, scrolls can be purchased for inscribing in the Portable Hole. Ask around in general chat in the market to see if a kind soul would get a scroll for you to inscribe.

I personally don't generally go the Master's Touch route, instead preferring to use Niac's Cold Ray for most of my early level killing. The Chill Touch SLA (with metamagics) should also help the cause.


What is the reasoning behind taking the Repair skill in the beginning as a Human?

Not much. You have to spend those points on something, and at least Repair gives you (mostly useless) repair spellpower. Same logic for Perform giving sonic spellpower.



One tip for getting around spell point issues is to use hirelings with Divine Vitality. You don't need to bring them throughout the quest with you, but instead can go back to the start of the quest, summon them, cast all their DVs, then dismiss them. They are on separate timers, so if you do this with multiple different hirelings (all with DV) one after the other you can get back lots of spell points. This is tedious, so I wouldn't rely on it, but it can help in super long quests. Note that some quests have a point of no return, so the only way to get back to the start is to cast DDoor. That makes DDoor a great spell to have.

[zarathius]

does anyone use the new Harper enhancements with this build?

[Endarire]

1: How does STR affect this build? Why not put the points into WIS instead for the boosting of your save of Will?

2: How do the Harper enhancements affect this build?

3: How does being Warforged affect this build?

[Jiirix]

1: How does STR affect this build? Why not put the points into WIS instead for the boosting of your save of Will?


2: How do the Harper enhancements affect this build?


3: How does being Warforged affect this build?

1. WIS is allready the strong save for a wizzard. There are far mor mobs that use STR-damage than WIS-damage and getting to 0 STR will leave you unable to cast. With some STR at start you can melee the first levels using masters touch and buffs mainly.

2. You can get a bit more INT out of it. I have spend 12 points in harper ATM to get 2 INT, 6 Spellpower (3 form VA, 3 from the enhancement bonus), 20 SP and some HP.

3.Undead warforged gain little and loose much (a feat, skillpoints, robes). You loose your warforged bonuses when in undead form, you can't repair yourself. Warforged has better synergies with Archmage or Sorc.

[EllisDee37]

Note that regarding Will saves, undead are natively immune to all Enchantments. There are few non-Enchantment Will saves in the game, so Will saves are largely irrelevant to a pale master.

[Endarire]

How do tomes affect stat point distribution? I presently have a Supreme +7 Tome and will soon TR into this build or one similar.

And thankee, Ellis, for making your spiffy editor and this build!

[SirValentine]

How do tomes affect stat point distribution?


Shouldn't affect this build. You'll still want to max Int, and there isn't any feats taken that need specific values of some other stat.

[Endarire]

What gear do you especially recommend for this build?

[Sabreheim]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.25.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 288
Spell Points: 1485
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 20
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Strength 10 10 10
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 16 16 16
Intelligence 18 27 32
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 8 8 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Balance 3 3 11
Bluff -1 -1 7
Concentration 5 26 34
Diplomacy -1 -1 7
Disable Device 8 34 45
Haggle 3 3 11
Heal 1 6 14
Hide -1 -1 7
Intimidate -1 -1 7
Jump 4 4 12
Listen -1 -1 7
Move Silently -1 -1 7
Open Lock 3 4 12
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 8 15 23
Search 8 34 42
Spellcraft 6 34 42
Spot 3 22 30
Swim 2 2 10
Tumble 1 1 9
Use Magic Device 3 3 11

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Repair (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Disable Device


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy I: Chill Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Energy of the Scholar (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Reaping (Rank 1)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 3)


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 2)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy II: Command Undead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Zombie (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 2)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 3)


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy III: Halt Undead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Vampire (Rank 1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Trapmaking
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Maximizing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Maximizing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Maximizing (Rank 3)


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Primary Spell Focus: Necromancy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy II (Rank 1)


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy III (Rank 1)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Corpsecrafter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Efficient Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Efficient Heightening (Rank 2)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy IV: Enervation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Wraith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy IV (Rank 1)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Penetration (Rank 2)


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force II (Rank 1)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 3)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Necromantic Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Improved Shrouding (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force IV (Rank 1)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Saves Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Lich (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Penetration


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Intelligence


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Divine Sphere: Epic Spell Power: Negative


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Intelligence


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Arcane Sphere: Hellball

[rlarge]

help please! what am I doing wrong here? This build has enhancements in pale master and archmage, along with human. I got the human but nowhere do I see pale master or archmage. I have available only these: human, eldritch knight, harper agent, thief acrobat, mechanic, and assassin. I must be doing somethin wrong or this is not a current build. Help please.

[slarden]

help please! what am I doing wrong here? This build has enhancements in pale master and archmage, along with human. I got the human but nowhere do I see pale master or archmage. I have available only these: human, eldritch knight, harper agent, thief acrobat, mechanic, and assassin. I must be doing somethin wrong or this is not a current build. Help please.

Try scrolling to the right until you get to the end. You can also go the word mechanic and change it to another tree you need.

[rlarge]

wow. I had moved Ileft 2 times. I thought it was the end. sometimes I wonder if I am smart enough for this game. :{

[EllisDee37]

No worries. Lots of people were confused with that exact same question right after the enhancement pass, which gave us the "trees" interface.

Cool tip with trees is that you can drag them around to put the trees in whatever order you like, even if you've spent points in them. Grab a tree on the icon in the bottom left of that tree pane to drag it, drop it on the same icon for a different slot.

[rlarge]

another question if someone has time. I have my wizard to level 5, rog 1 wiz 4. I have been looking at the spells etc relative to self healing. If I am understanding that ability and the spell list etc then I will not have any self healing other than lesser death aura until level 7, ie. rog 1,wiz 6. Is this correct? Or are there other things that will help that I am missing? This is my first wizard/pale master so am not sure of anything. thx in advance for any and all help or flames( that point out the error of my ways).

[SirValentine]

another question if someone has time. I have my wizard to level 5, rog 1 wiz 4. I have been looking at the spells etc relative to self healing. If I am understanding that ability and the spell list etc then I will not have any self healing other than lesser death aura until level 7, ie. rog 1,wiz 6. Is this correct? Or are there other things that will help that I am missing? This is my first wizard/pale master so am not sure of anything. thx in advance for any and all help or flames( that point out the error of my ways).

At very low levels, it might be easier just to stay out of undead form, and drink Cure potions. You don't get Vampire form until 6 Wizard levels anyway. I'm not much of a fan of Zombie form, personally. (-2 Int!)

[rlarge]

thanks. I will do that. at least this time I had it figured correctly. not the normal outcome. lol :)

[EllisDee37]

I typically use Zombie form as soon as I hit level 4. To help out Lesser Death Aura, you can buy Inflict Serious Wounds potions from the portable hole. Buy a teleport scroll from the guild vendors in House K or the regular vendors in House J or The Twelve to get to the portable hole. Or if you have another higher-level alt who can get to the portable hole, they can buy the pots and pass them to your wizard.

[unbongwah]

Another option is create a human alt with DM of Passage, spend 12 APs for Gtr DM (Teleport), and make it your Portable Hole shopper. :)

[rlarge]

ok. I took the last suggestion. I have GDM of passage. Now what level do I n3eed to get this toon before getting teleportation or what ever I need to get to Portable Hole??

[EllisDee37]

ok. I took the last suggestion. I have GDM of passage. Now what level do I n3eed to get this toon before getting teleportation or what ever I need to get to Portable Hole??Level 3, because you need to spend 12 AP in the human tree: 10 to unlock Tier 3s, and 2 AP to actually take the ability.

[rlarge]

umm.. yes I am at lvl 4 and have t he DMG of passage enhancement. I don't seem to see teleportation spell. maybe, actually probably, I do not understand all I need to do to get this on toon so she can go to PH

[unbongwah]

Open your char screen, switch to Enhancements tab, click-n-drag the Gtr DM of Passage to your toolbar, click it; you should get a sub-bar displaying all of the Teleport locations, inc. Portable Hole. Can't remember if you have to map the sub-bar icons to your toolbar as well; but if you do, then click-n-drag them as well. Then you can Teleport.

[rlarge]

fyi, don't seem to be able to drag GDM but did drag teleport to portable hole and it w orks fine. may not have done the gdm thing right but teleport works anyway so am all good. ty very much

[EllisDee37]

Sadly, the dragonmark doesn't give you the convenient spell interface. It appears in your enhancements list as a bazillion different enhancements, one for each destination. Drag the "Greater Dragonmark: Portable Hole" enhancement to your hotbar and click it.

I hate that I can't just drag the greater dragonmark to my "Alt+T" hotkey location and have it bring up a destination menu. It's super cumbersome to have a hotbar full of identical-icon teleport destinations. My kingdom for Alt+T, like all my UMD alts get!

For this reason I would never, ever take the greater dragonmark on a real character. My dual-box openers do take it, though, and I hate it.

[rlarge]

lolol apparently I need to be level 5 to actually buy t he inflict serious wounds potions. well only one level away so no biggie I guess. wizard is level 5 now so should work. maybe. :(

edit. my fault. forgot to give her money. very funny on my part. t hanks guys!!

[eachna_gislin]

I'm doing a wizard life next and wanted to check if there have been any changes (recent or otherwise) to break this build?

I haven't played a wizard since just before the enhancement pass so it's been a while. It would be nice to have a solid build to fall back on as I figure out just how differently everything plays.

Edit: are the Sands bracers (bracers of the demon consort (???) ) still worth using with PMs? I have a pair for her.

[EllisDee37]

Nope, nothing to break it. It's still the same as it ever was.

Fair warning though that the past couple years have drastically increased the power of melee builds (even including the 28.1 nerfs today) while wizards have remained the same as they were since the enhancement pass. So you'll be weaker by comparison.

EDIT: Demon Consort bracers are still good, yes.

[eachna_gislin]

Nope, nothing to break it. It's still the same as it ever was.

Fair warning though that the past couple years have drastically increased the power of melee builds (even including the 28.1 nerfs today) while wizards have remained the same as they were since the enhancement pass. So you'll be weaker by comparison.

EDIT: Demon Consort bracers are still good, yes.

My last two lives were Cleric racial AA. I live "weak by comparison" :D.

Thanks.

Edit: I decided to go Shadar-Kai for the race+class+epic life combo and play Pale Trapper. It adapts pretty easily. I lose the human feat which is no big deal on a wizard, and I put the 4 (human) racial AP into Mechanic for Awareness and Mechanics. I usually skip epics when I reincarnate so I'm not confident she has good epic trapping gear. It's playing well so far.

[torchen]

reserved

testing your build....
What changes can I do if I change human > drow?????
I am not sure if you use dimension door of human tree, dimension door can be hardly replaceable....

thx a lot

[EllisDee37]

testing your build....
What changes can I do if I change human > drow?????
I am not sure if you use dimension door of human tree, dimension door can be hardly replaceable....

thx a lotAlmost no changes as a drow. Max int (20), put as much as you can into con, then toss the extra into strength for carrying capacity.

Drop the human bonus feat (Toughness or Augment Summoning), which is largely useless but we can't take caster feats at level 1 and those were the only things that offered anything interesting. No loss to drop it.

There is no dragonmark on this build. Wizards can natively cast DDoor.

[saurus]

im new and wanted to try it out

followed the guide made human rogue character
leveled it to 2 then picked wizard

then problem starts here i dont have access to archmage or pale master enh trees
only ones that i can access are 3 rogue ones and eldritch knight

can someone help please? :)

[EllisDee37]

im new and wanted to try it out

followed the guide made human rogue character
leveled it to 2 then picked wizard

then problem starts here i dont have access to archmage or pale master enh trees
only ones that i can access are 3 rogue ones and eldritch knight

can someone help please? :)Scroll to the right by clicking the right-arrow on the right side of the enhancement screen.

You may want to drag the wizard trees over to the left, in place of the rogue trees. You can then hide the rogue trees with the dropdowns beneath them.

[Kaisheng21]

Please finish this like you did with your Kensei Warpriest or your Tempest Trapmonkey. I'm really not sure about what weapons, gear, etc. to take/craft.

[EllisDee37]

Please finish this like you did with your Kensei Warpriest or your Tempest Trapmonkey. I'm really not sure about what weapons, gear, etc. to take/craft.This guy is actually pretty low in my queue.

I've "finished" my kensei warpriest (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426765) and evasion paladin (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/480636) on live. By "finished", I mean I've gotten them to 30, set up their twists, equipped them with customized cannith crafted gearsets and acquired their desired weapons. I'm currently working on my tempest trapmonkey (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116), who just took 30 but still has a couple million xp to go to get all the fate points needed for his twists. Plus I need to farm up maybe a couple dozen collectables before I can craft his gear.

Once the ranger is done, I'm eyeing my necro cleric (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422552). That guy is still 25 from when the cap was 25; he's wearing mostly gianthold gear. (Lots of FoT stuff.) Ideally I'd like to "finish" him as well.

After the cleric is done I plan to resume working on my wizard, who is working on completionist (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453381-Completionist-Project) both for the +2 int and also so I can experience each class. It will be a long time until my pale trapper on live actually returns to his wizarding ways. Until then, I rely on my epic challenge farmer (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434231-Epic-Challenge-Farmer-%2821-drow-pure-wizard%29) for my wizardy needs. (Like farming soul gems.)

[Kaisheng21]

OK, thanks anyway.

[Kaisheng21]

More questions:


'The simplest method for leveling is to get a level-appropriate tower shield (but don't equip it), then cast aura & displacement and run around gathering up a dozen or so mobs, cast firewall or ice storm, equip the tower shield, then stand there in the middle of the aoe and shield block until everything is dead. Lather, rinse, repeat. Displacement halves the incoming damage, aura keeps you healed, the aoe does the killing. Do not do any casting with a shield in your hand, do not ever cast negative energy burst except in the most dire circumstance, and aura should be doing very little of the damage against mobs.'

Firewall/ice storm is 25 sp, aura is 15 or 25 sp depending on which one, displacement is another 20sp. That's 60sp for 'a dozen or so mobs', not including web/dancing ball, not including acid rain. How the heck do you manage spending that much sp at a go?

Why bank 2 AP and wait before taking the efficient metamagics? I can understand waiting for empower because of level 2 wizard prereq, but why do it for maximise and quicken?

How do I craft the axeblock and spearblock shards?

[EllisDee37]

Firewall/ice storm is 25 sp, aura is 15 or 25 sp depending on which one, displacement is another 20sp. That's 60sp for 'a dozen or so mobs', not including web/dancing ball, not including acid rain. How the heck do you manage spending that much sp at a go?The displacement and aura last for multiple encounters.


Why bank 2 AP and wait before taking the efficient metamagics? I can understand waiting for empower because of level 2 wizard prereq, but why do it for maximise and quicken?Well, for quicken, you don't take quicken until level 17 so the idea is to max the efiicient line all at once as soon as you get the feat. The original build didn't take maximize until level 9, and the same concept was used there for the leveling guide. I still don't actually use maximize on spells until level 9. (It's free on SLAs.)


How do I craft the axeblock and spearblock shards?You no longer can with the crafting revamp.

[Shadowraven7]

I would have liked to use this to convert my pure wiz to a trapper, but the cost of the required wood prevented that, so decided to just use the free lesser wood to "fix" my wiz that was using the Pale Master preset to alocate points better and take better feats using your build as a guide.

The guide has been very helpful as I have finally come to understand a few things I had previously been ignorant about, but given that my setup has changed so much I have a few questions.

I am level 15 and previously had put all points in the Pale Master/Human trees ( Skellie pet maxed), and the extent of using metamagic was just Extend on buffs/aura as their SP cost seemed too heavy to use on anything else ( no improved metamagic abilities), I didn't even understand why I kept seeing that they were free for SLA's as the only SLA's I had used were the Necrotic line in PM tree which don't qualify as they use HP not SP.

A lot of spells that I have tried to use following recomendations never seemed to be very effective for me personally, but perhaps that was just due to points spent in wrong places to boost them.

So given that this thread is quite old and some things may be a bit out of date regarding spell use, I was wondering if anyone could give me some rough advice on what spells I should be using at 15+ for each type of situation ( 1-2 mobs or packs), and what metamagics to be using on what spells, wiz has so many spells, hard to know which ones there is no point using/taking up space on hotbar?

[EllisDee37]

Necrotic Ray with just Maximize is pretty sweet, and gets stronger as you gain levels. In the mid-teens is when it starts getting good, and is very good by 18.

For Maximize, I generally look to gear up with Efficient Maximize, but unfortunately cannith crafting doesn't have the good version anymore. You used to be able to reduce the cost by 4 with Eff. Max II, but new crafting only offers 2 SP off with Eff. Max. Still, -2 is nice to have if you can squeeze it in. Add in the -9 savings from enhancements, my old-style trinkets I crafted long ago make maximize cost me 12 SP. It'll be 14 with new style crafting, or 16 with no item at all.

For smaller encounters, say 2-4 mobs, try Circle of Death. It's like a miniature version of Wail of the Banshee, but it happens all at once so be sure the group is on top of you when you cast it. I seem to recall just using Heighten on it, not quicken.

Otto's Sphere of Dancing is my preferred AoE crowd control, since i find webs to be super fragile. Definitely want to quicken it, and heighten as well.

For very large groups -- like you intentionally run through multiple rooms to gather tons of mobs -- I like to combine Otto's Sphere with Acid Rain plus either Firewall or Ice Storm, depending on what types of enemies they are. Note that Ice Storm also does force damage, so if a group is immune to both fire and ice, go with ice storm. Try those AoE dps spells with just maximize, then try with both maximize and empower, and decide for yourself if empower is worth it. I generally consider empower to be not worth it, especially since I efficient-ize maximize but not empower. (EDIT: Because level 4 spells are at a premium, I will use the same slot for firewall and ice storm, switching in the more appropriate one for quests, sometimes in the middle of quests at shrines.)

For bosses, necrotic ray plus dots is the way to go: Eladar's Electric Surge and Niac's Biting Cold. I generally use both maximize and empower with both, but not quicken.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Chain Lightning and Ball Lightning are both covered in win. I just use maximize on them, not quicken or heighten or empower. Ball Lightning is essentially an electric fireball, but more powerful and not fire so it works on devils and demons. Chain Lightning is one of my three primary rays: Necrotic Ray, Chain Lightning and Polar Ray. All 3 with just maximize.

EDIT 2: Actually, level 15 is probably still low level enough that webby firewalls are probably still good. Heightened Web, Maximized Firewall, both on the exact same spot on the ground at the same time.

[Kaisheng21]

How do I not get shredded by light damage?

Some backstory: Am level 11, 178hp at full health, with level 11 cleric hireling on elite Gwylan's Stand, otherwise solo. I have a ring of light resistance 18 and have aura and displacement up. I go into the west boss chamber, champion slams me to 4/5 health, heal almost back up, priest hits me with light spell and I instantly go down to about 60 hp. Aura heals me to 80, priest kills me with a second spell. Get raised, drink a pot of ISW, get killed again. Watch in horror as hireling gets mobbed and takes damage faster than they can heal and get KOed too.

Gwylan's Stand is level 9 on elite.

Is it just me or are PMs way too vulnerable to light?

[EllisDee37]

What form are you in?

I typically go with zombie, then wraith, then lich, skipping vampire altogether.

[Kaisheng21]

Vampire. Is the triple light damage why? It feels like the same thing would have happened even with zombie form, albeit slower.

[EllisDee37]

Vampire. Is the triple light damage why?Yep.

[Kaisheng21]

Yep.

Could you please give me some advice? Also, why Chain Lightning rather than Disintegrate? Wiki says Chain Lightning actually has normal spell range, not double.

[EllisDee37]

Could you please give me some advice? Also, why Chain Lightning rather than Disintegrate? Wiki says Chain Lightning actually has normal spell range, not double.Did switching to zombie form help lower the light damage you were taking?

Not sure what specifically you're asking about re: chain lightning vs disintegrate. Disintegrate is single target, compared to chain lightning which hits multiple enemies at once. (As many as there are nearby, possibly.)

[Kaisheng21]

Did switching to zombie form help lower the light damage you were taking?

Not sure what specifically you're asking about re: chain lightning vs disintegrate. Disintegrate is single target, compared to chain lightning which hits multiple enemies at once. (As many as there are nearby, possibly.)

Ty for the quick reply. I thought about switching to zombie, but if I switched to zombie every time there was a divine caster, I would run out of sp extremely quickly. If I just stayed in zombie form, that would negate the point of vampire form in the first place. Also, like I said, it feels like the same thing would have happened in zombie form, just slower.

You recommended ray spells because they have longer ranges than Beholders' antimagic. However, Chain Lightning has exactly the same range as most spells. I said Disintegrate because it was just the first ray spell of equivalent level that jumped into my mind.

[EllisDee37]

Ty for the quick reply. I thought about switching to zombie, but if I switched to zombie every time there was a divine caster, I would run out of sp extremely quickly. If I just stayed in zombie form, that would negate the point of vampire form in the first place. Also, like I said, it feels like the same thing would have happened in zombie form, just slower.My advice continues to be to run in zombie form all the time until you get wraith form. I personally would never run in vampire form.


You recommended ray spells because they have longer ranges than Beholders' antimagic. However, Chain Lightning has exactly the same range as most spells. I said Disintegrate because it was just the first ray spell of equivalent level that jumped into my mind.I recommended chain lightning in general. For beholders I would stick with necrotic ray, frost lance and scorching ray. At higher levels use polar ray instead of frost lance.

I suppose disintegrate would work, but that's force spell power. Typically I'll have higher cold spell power than force spell power, at least while leveling through heroics.

[Kaisheng21]

My advice continues to be to run in zombie form all the time until you get wraith form. I personally would never run in vampire form.

Huh. Where did you say that? Could you add that to the main post please?


I recommended chain lightning in general. For beholders I would stick with necrotic ray, frost lance and scorching ray. At higher levels use polar ray instead of frost lance.

Hmm. Why not, say, Lightning Bolt instead of Scorching Ray?

Also, ty for putting up with all my questions. Must be annoying on your end.

[EllisDee37]

Hmm. Why not, say, Lightning Bolt instead of Scorching Ray?Also a good choice.

Level 3 is one of those spell levels where there's more to take than I have slots, and lightning bolt usually doesn't make the cut:

Displacement
Haste
Frost Lance
Fireball
Rage

The only reason I like frost lance more than lightning bolt is that lightning bolt can be evaded for 0 damage, while frost lance can only be saved for half since it's a fort save.


Huh. Where did you say that? Could you add that to the main post please?Post 185.

I definitely do need to update the first page, though. It's just that I'm not running wizard lives atm.

[URjustSOL]

I definitely do need to update the first page, though. It's just that I'm not running wizard lives atm.

thank you! I think I've hosed my build from trying to incorporate all the myriad side-discussions going on.

[Kaisheng21]

What should I take for my level 8 and 9 spells?

[EllisDee37]

Level 8 spells to prioritize:
- Polar Ray
- Black Dragon Bolt
- Trap the Soul (for crafting)

Level 9 spells to prioritize:
- Wail of the Banshee
- Mass Hold Monster
- Dominate Monster
- Energy Drain


Energy Drain would be higher except that I find myself preferring the enervation SLA since it's so much cheaper. Still, Energy Drain is so good that even if you prefer the SLA, it's still worth having.

Other level 8 spells of interest include Mass Charm Monster, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Power Word Stun, Greater Shout, Sunburst and Horrid Wilting.

Other level 9 spells of interest include Power Word Kill, Meteor Swarm and Mordenkainen's Disjunction (for disabling spell wards).

[Kaisheng21]

Am now level 20 with 1800 sp, 1600 after I swap out the wizardry items. On normal groups, I would just spam unmetaed Sonic Blast to stun everything and Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray whatever saved against it, usually the spellcasters. On small groups, I would (heighten) Circle of Death, then alternate Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray and Sonic Blast. On large groups, I would throw down an (max) Ice Storm, then cast Death Aura and spam Sonic Blast. If I was below half health, I cast Death Aura. On champions/orange names I would Finger of Death. On bosses I would use (emp+max) Niac's Biting Cold + Eladar's Electric Surge. If I was low on sp(as in Korthos-clicky-using, echoes-of-power low, I would Sonic Blast x2, Chill Touch and repeat.

Obviously, Sonic Blast was important to my playstyle, but it's not as effective anymore. I only stun 1 mob in 4 now usually, and I'm burning my sp much faster with all the heightened Circles of Death and (emp+max)Necrotic Rays I'm tossing out. Heightened Web doesn't work on spellcasters or ranged archers, though I can tangle giants in it, I sometimes lose concentration on Otto's Sphere and both are absurdly expensive. Ice Storm seems to disappear with casters around and Finger of Death isn't always working against champions/orange named. In short, my spells are getting worse and I'm running out of sp too quickly. I was thinking of taking some of the Necrotic or Arcane SLAs, any advice welcome.

[Kaisheng21]

Am now level 20 with 1800 sp, 1600 after I swap out the wizardry items. On normal groups, I would just spam unmetaed Sonic Blast to stun everything and Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray whatever saved against it, usually the spellcasters. On small groups, I would (heighten) Circle of Death, then alternate Chill Touch/(emp+max)Necrotic Ray and Sonic Blast. On large groups, I would throw down an (max) Ice Storm, then cast Death Aura and spam Sonic Blast. If I was below half health, I cast Death Aura. On champions/orange names I would Finger of Death. On bosses I would use (emp+max) Niac's Biting Cold + Eladar's Electric Surge. If I was low on sp(as in Korthos-clicky-using, echoes-of-power low, I would Sonic Blast x2, Chill Touch and repeat.

Obviously, Sonic Blast was important to my playstyle, but it's not as effective anymore. I only stun 1 mob in 4 now usually, and without it I'm burning my sp much faster with all the heightened Circles of Death and (emp+max)Necrotic Rays I'm tossing out. In short, my spells are getting worse and I'm running out of sp too quickly. Maybe some of the Necrotic or Arcane SLAs would help? Any advice welcome.

[EllisDee37]

Do you have epic destinies?

[Kaisheng21]

Do you have epic destinies?
I have Arcane Study I. That's it.

[EllisDee37]

I have Arcane Study I. That's it.Work on leveling your epic destinies. Those help a lot.

[shawnvw]

My Pale Trapper is at 22nd and is still having trouble with bosses. Mostly I've been using:

- Black Dragon Bolt
- Acid Fog
- Polar Ray
- Chain Missile

None of these have a saving throw. Is that the best combination? Should I throw in Niac's Biting Cold and Eladrin's Electric Surge?


What do you think of using Mass Charm or Mass Suggestion on the boss's trash mobs? Let *him* fight them instead of me!

[EllisDee37]

My Pale Trapper is at 22nd and is still having trouble with bosses. Mostly I've been using:

- Black Dragon Bolt
- Acid Fog
- Polar Ray
- Chain Missile

None of these have a saving throw. Is that the best combination? Should I throw in Niac's Biting Cold and Eladrin's Electric Surge? For end bosses, sure, you can dot him up with niac's and eladar's. They're slow, but once you get both triple-stacked they're okay.

I don't usually bother with chain missile.

Necrotic Ray is a bread-and-butter ray spell for pale masters. You should lead with it and keep it on cooldown.

Otherwise, yep, that's the basic list.

[Kaisheng21]

For level 4 spells, you list Acid Rain. I think that that could be swapped out for something like PK. Thoughts?

[EllisDee37]

For level 4 spells, you list Acid Rain. I think that that could be swapped out for something like PK. Thoughts?Try them both and see which you prefer.

[Kaisheng21]

Ok, epics are really annoying me. Soloing, half the time enemies seem to have DW, the other half, Epic Ward mean I have to recast and recast my death spells, so I usually just start DOTing the survivors; as for CC, Web never works anymore and Dancing Ball works on one mob in three. Between all this and using no SLAs except enervation, I'm running out of spell points pretty quickly.

And this is on epic normal; I dare not venture in to epic hard or elite anymore because I'm too squishy to stand up to the minions, let alone go toe to toe with a champion. When I group, no one ever plays on anything but ee, except reaper possibly, in which I at least get decent xp and loot from, but feel really gimped when I die 10 times in a row without anyone else doing the same (not even exaggerated) and once actually made someone run out of raise scrolls. I've leveled Magister to 4, but still feel gimped. What should I do?

[EllisDee37]

Maybe work on gear?

[slarden]

Ok, epics are really annoying me. Soloing, half the time enemies seem to have DW, the other half, Epic Ward mean I have to recast and recast my death spells, so I usually just start DOTing the survivors; as for CC, Web never works anymore and Dancing Ball works on one mob in three. Between all this and using no SLAs except enervation, I'm running out of spell points pretty quickly.

And this is on epic normal; I dare not venture in to epic hard or elite anymore because I'm too squishy to stand up to the minions, let alone go toe to toe with a champion. When I group, no one ever plays on anything but ee, except reaper possibly, in which I at least get decent xp and loot from, but feel really gimped when I die 10 times in a row without anyone else doing the same (not even exaggerated) and once actually made someone run out of raise scrolls. I've leveled Magister to 4, but still feel gimped. What should I do? One thing you can do is take the evocation line from archmage rather than necromancy. The combination of magic missle sla, chain missle sla, arcane blast sla + unmeta'd magic missle, chain missle, force missle gives you alot of cheap dps to cycle through when death spells don't work. Draconic as an ED also helps quite a bit in that regard, but since you are working on maxing ED the evocation archmage line is the way to go. It will also make boss fights much easier. Make sure you max out your force spellpower, force crit chance and spell points as best you can with gear. In my opinion web is too expensive for what it does - esp if heightened. It sounds like you may need to raise your DCs. Generally if you have to use enervate it's not worth it except maybe on an oranged name. For oranged name bosses I usually enervate and energy drain as it's the quickest way to reduce hp.

Epic Ward itself shows a deathward symbol but doesn't grant deathward. For joining EE parties the main thing you need to do is focus on your DC. Here is a breakdown of my illusionists DC to give you an idea of what kind of bonuses are available - it's a few releases out of date but I think it has all the types except reaper. You can see your dc by mousing over finger of death and wail of the banshee.

Int Breakdown
Base: 20
Level Ups: 7
Tome: 7
Completionist: 2
Magister: 6
Archmage: 2
Deep Gnome: 2
PM: 2
Lich Form: 4
Echoes of the Ancestor Twist: 1
Twist of Fate - Shadowdancer: 1
Equipment Bonus: 17
Insightful Bonus: 7
Exceptional Bonus: 2
Quality Bonus: 4
Profane Bonus: 2
Festival Bonus: 2
Artifact Bonus: 2
Yugo Potions: 2
Remnant Turn-in Potions: 2
Ship Buffs: 2

Total Sustainable Int: 96

Illusion DC Breakdown
Base: 10
Spell Level: 9
Spell Focus Illusion: 1
Greater Spell Focus Illusion: 1
Past Life Wizard: 1
Intelligence Modifier: 43
Embolden: 2
Iconic Past Life Deep Gnome: 3
Archmage Tree: 1
Item: 7 (goggles)
Insightful Item: 4 (goggles)
Quality Item: 2 (orb)
Illusion Specialist Magister: 3
Draconic Presence: 3
Deep Gnome Tree: 3
Scion of the Plane of Feywild: 2
Artifact Bonus: 4
Augment: 2
Ship Buffs: 1
Shadowcaster Profane Bonus: 1
Total: 103

Spell Pen Breakdown
Wizard Levels: 18
Magister Levels: 5
Magister: 3
Spell Penetration Feat: 2
Greater Spell Penetration Feat: 2
Epic Spell Penetration Feat: 4
Item: 7
3x Wizard Past Lifes: 6
3x Fvs Past Lifes: 3
Insightful Item: 4
Ship Buff: 1
Echoes of the Anestor Arcane Twist: 2
Draconic Spell Pen Twist: 3
Archmage Tree: 3
Total: 63

Enchantment DC Breakdown
Base: 10
Spell Level: 9
Past Life Wizard: 1
Intelligence Modifier: 43
Embolden: 2
Item: 7
Insightful Item: 4 (orb)
Quality Item: 2
Scion of the Plane of Shadowfell: 2
Augment: 2
Ship Buffs: 1
Shadowcaster Profane Bonus: 1
Total: 83

[Kaisheng21]

One thing you can do is take the evocation line from archmage rather than necromancy. The combination of magic missle sla, chain missle sla, arcane blast sla + unmeta'd magic missle, chain missle, force missle gives you alot of cheap dps to cycle through when death spells don't work. Draconic as an ED also helps quite a bit in that regard, but since you are working on maxing ED the evocation archmage line is the way to go. It will also make boss fights much easier. Make sure you max out your force spellpower, force crit chance and spell points as best you can with gear. In my opinion web is too expensive for what it does - esp if heightened. It sounds like you may need to raise your DCs. Generally if you have to use enervate it's not worth it except maybe on an oranged name. For oranged name bosses I usually enervate and energy drain as it's the quickest way to reduce hp.

Epic Ward itself shows a deathward symbol but doesn't grant deathward. For joining EE parties the main thing you need to do is focus on your DC. Here is a breakdown of my illusionists DC to give you an idea of what kind of bonuses are available - it's a few releases out of date but I think it has all the types except reaper. You can see your dc by mousing over finger of death and wail of the banshee.


Dunno what I was thinking with the Epic Ward bit. I have taken literally every DC and spell penetration boost there is available in the various trees and feats, and I think I have a +4 items for both. For int, I'm level 24, in Draconic level 4 rn, nowhere near completionist, am human, twisted in +1 from Magister with my measly 2 fate points, have +9/+4 goggles and don't have yugo or remnant pots.

[Kaisheng21]

I was thinking about trying to Dispel Deathward on mobs those pesky divine casters keep buffing. Would it work? Also, for my level 26 feat, I can't seem to find Epic Spell Power: Negative. I have Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Force, Repair and Sonic, but no Negative. Help?

[Mantis187]

im going to use this build for my first ever character on DDO. I was wondering will this be able to get me through all the content? I'm not a alt \/\/hore UNTIL i get my main char fully decked out.

[Kaisheng21]

im going to use this build for my first ever character on DDO. I was wondering will this be able to get me through all the content? I'm not a alt \/\/hore UNTIL i get my main char fully decked out.

There is no build that will get you through all the content, but this one comes pretty **** close. Has aoe and instakill spells, can do traps, uses knock for locks, flat out immune to half the status effects, good defenses, brings own heals, not MAD in any way... Only place it falls off a bit is epics.

[Mantis187]

There is no build that will get you through all the content, but this one comes pretty **** close. Has aoe and instakill spells, can do traps, uses knock for locks, flat out immune to half the status effects, good defenses, brings own heals, not MAD in any way... Only place it falls off a bit is epics.

ok so next ? where should i take this and what do to next after?

[Kaisheng21]

ok so next ? where should i take this and what do to next after?

Um. Whatever you like? I mean, I'd stick to builds using destinies you've unlocked, but that's basically the only restriction.

[EllisDee37]

Missed this post earlier:
I was thinking about trying to Dispel Deathward on mobs those pesky divine casters keep buffing. Would it work?Not entirely. Dispel is based off caster level, both yours and theirs. Because harder difficulty mobs have been jacked up to a ridiculous degree (CR50+) your caster level simply can't compete with theirs, so your dispel won't generally work. (And theirs will be no-fail.) This is one of the broken mechanics in the game.


Also, for my level 26 feat, I can't seem to find Epic Spell Power: Negative. I have Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Force, Repair and Sonic, but no Negative. Help?I believe that's a divine sphere spellpower, meaning you need to cap at least one divine destiny before it's available.

[EllisDee37]

im going to use this build for my first ever character on DDO. I was wondering will this be able to get me through all the content? I'm not a alt \/\/hore UNTIL i get my main char fully decked out.No, pale masters are actually a very poor choice for getting through "all content" now that reaper difficulty is a thing. The nerf to self-healing in reaper means you really want others (or hirelings) to heal you, and pale masters can't really be healed by other players or hirelings. So a pale trapper will likely find itself limited to elite, or dropping out of form to play reaper. If you're dropping out of form, why bother in the first place, right? May as well just play a sorcerer or warlock.

[Kaisheng21]

Missed this post earlier:Not entirely. Dispel is based off caster level, both yours and theirs. Because harder difficulty mobs have been jacked up to a ridiculous degree (CR50+) your caster level simply can't compete with theirs, so your dispel won't generally work. (And theirs will be no-fail.) This is one of the broken mechanics in the game.

I believe that's a divine sphere spellpower, meaning you need to cap at least one divine destiny before it's available.

Oh well. I've hit cap and am going to DTR soon anyway.


No, pale masters are actually a very poor choice for getting through "all content" now that reaper difficulty is a thing. The nerf to self-healing in reaper means you really want others (or hirelings) to heal you, and pale masters can't really be healed by other players or hirelings. So a pale trapper will likely find itself limited to elite, or dropping out of form to play reaper. If you're dropping out of form, why bother in the first place, right? May as well just play a sorcerer or warlock.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about reaper. Should do fine pretty much everywhere else, though.

[Mantis187]

No, pale masters are actually a very poor choice for getting through "all content" now that reaper difficulty is a thing. The nerf to self-healing in reaper means you really want others (or hirelings) to heal you, and pale masters can't really be healed by other players or hirelings. So a pale trapper will likely find itself limited to elite, or dropping out of form to play reaper. If you're dropping out of form, why bother in the first place, right? May as well just play a sorcerer or warlock.

well ****, that kinda sucks... right now im lvl 6 1rog/5wiz im doing reaper 1skull atm but of course thats at low level. wow that kinda makes me feel sad.... i dont mind doing content with others i mean i like to solo but if i have to get people together i dont mind it. so are ya saying i should play something else as my first char? id like to experience the whole game my first time through before making any alts. as i said i like my first char to be geared/maxxed before i start another toon. if i cant solo EVERYTHING thats fine id figure eventually id have to get into groups anyways to get the raids and what not complete. Ellis if thats the case what do u rec for me and do u have a link to a good sorc/lock build for me..... thanks in advance

I have seen some videos with locks and they look pretty cool and seem to do some good damage so maybe ill do that instead... just need to find me a good build.... *cough what u got ellis XD

[EllisDee37]

right now im lvl 6 1rog/5wiz im doing reaper 1skull atm but of course thats at low level.How do you heal? Are you in zombie form, or just a regular fleshie using hirelings to heal you?

[Mantis187]

How do you heal? Are you in zombie form, or just a regular fleshie using hirelings to heal you?

right now just using hirelings to heal me, i got the skele and my hireling doing stuff for me atm. i web and fire and melee with a 2hnder vorp sword. i didnt put no points into zombie cause alot of people said it was not worth it just to wait to get the other forms. when i think solo i think just me and whatever npcs are with me. im checking out voodus lock tank project and seeing how it goes. im going to keep my paletrapper but might just come back to it later. i just really want to have my first char be able to do everything that the game has to offer and then make other toons just to get to 20 for the TR or whatever its called. But my first char i want to do everything that i can. Since coming back and years of content out id like to be able to use 1 char and experience everything with it and not have to go back and forth between alts.

[Finn42]

I'm seeing the enhancements and feats haven't been updated in the original page one post in over a year.
Is it really still up to date?

What about reaper mode with the serious self healing nerf? ?
What CC can this do to the reapers?

[EllisDee37]

I'm seeing the enhancements and feats haven't been updated in the original page one post in over a year.
Is it really still up to date?

What about reaper mode with the serious self healing nerf? ?
What CC can this do to the reapers?The enhancements in-game haven't changed for several years, so there's been no need to update the build's enhancements.

This isn't a reaper build, and likely will never be, because pale masters in and of themselves aren't suited for reaper. If you want to play a CC wizard in reaper I would think you're better off as an archmage.

[Maraq]

I do not understand how do you got 4 AP on the first level.

[EllisDee37]

I do not understand how do you got 4 AP on the first level.It's not immediately when you start. You gradually earn 4 AP each level as you approach the next level.

[Maraq]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Pale Trapper
Level 28 Human
(18 Wizard / 2 Rogue / 8 Epic)

Abilities 28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt
Strength 10 14 10 12
Dexterity 8 8 8 8
Constitution 16 16 18 18
Intelligence 18 18 18 18
Wisdom 8 8 8 8
Charisma 8 8 8 8

Skills Ranks
Concentration 23
Spellcraft 23
Heal 7
Repair 4
Perform 2
Search 23
Spot 23
Disable Device 23
Open Lock 5
Balance 4
Jump 4
Haggle 4
Swim 2
Tumble 1
UMD 1

Feats
1 : Insightful Reflexes
1H: Toughness
2W: Empower Spell
3 : Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
6 : Extend Spell
6W: Heighten Spell
9 : Maximize Spell
12 : Spell Penetration
12W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
15 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
17W: Quicken Spell
18 : Greater Spell Penetration
21E: Epic Spell Penetration
24E: Great Ability: Intelligence
26E: Nullification +20
27E: Great Ability: Intelligence
28E: Toughness

Magister
Intelligence VI
Unearthly Reaction II
Necromancy Specialist III
Sigil of Energy Negation II
Piercing Spellcraft III
Arcane Adept
Twist 1: Energy Burst
Twist 2: Endless Faith


Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Repair (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Enhancement: AM Core: Grease
Enhancement: AM1: Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: AM1: Spell Critical
Enhancement: PM Core: Dark Reaping


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower I
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower II
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower III


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM1: Deathless Vigor I
Enhancement: PM1: Deathless Vigor II


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Zombie
Enhancement: AM Core: Web
Enhancement: PM1: Negative Energy Conduit I
Enhancement: PM1: Negative Energy Conduit II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: PM1: Deathless Vigor III
Enhancement: PM1: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Vampire
Enhancement: AM Core: Stinking Cloud
Enhancement: AM3: Intelligence


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM3: Intelligence


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize I
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize II
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize III


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM4: School Mastery: Conjuration
Enhancement: PM2: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM4: Intelligence
Enhancement: PM3: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: AM4: Improved Heighten I
Enhancement: AM4: Improved Heighten II


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM1: Negative Energy Conduit III
Enhancement: PM4: Intelligence
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Versatility: Skill Boost


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Wraith
Enhancement: AM Core: Dimension Door
Enhancement: PM4: Spell Critical: Negative Energy


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Archmage Tree Reset
Enhancement: AM Core: Hypnotism
Enhancement: AM1: Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: AM1: Spell Critical
Enhancement: AM Core: Otto's Resistable Dance
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Empower III
Enhancement: AM2: Improved Maximize III
Enhancement: AM Core: Hold Person
Enhancement: AM3: Intelligence
Enhancement: AM Core: Charm Monster
Enhancement: AM4: Improved Heighten II
Enhancement: AM4: School Mastery: Enchantment
Enhancement: AM4: Intelligence
Enhancement: AM3: Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: AM3: Spell Penetration II


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM2: Spell Critical


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: PM2: Improved Quicken I
Enhancement: PM2: Improved Quicken II
Enhancement: PM2: Improved Quicken III


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: PM5: Necromantic Focus
Enhancement: PM5: Improved Shrouding


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: AM3: Spell Critical
Enhancement: AM4: Spell Critical


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: PM Core: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: AM Core: Hold Monster
Enhancement: H1: Human Adaptability: Intelligence


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic Spell Penetration


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Great Intelligence


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Nullification +20


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Great Intelligence


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

<End of Build>


I mean this one. How did you get 6 AP at the second level?

Enhancement: AM Core: Grease - 1AP
Enhancement: AM1: Energy of the Scholar I - 2AP
Enhancement: AM1: Spell Critical - 2AP
Enhancement: PM Core: Dark Reaping - 1AP

[EllisDee37]

I mean this one. How did you get 6 AP at the second level?You gradually earn 4 AP each level. Since we don't spend any AP on level 1, we start level 2 with 4 AP to spend instead of the normal 0, and then gradually earn another 4 AP on the way to level 3 for a total of 8 AP to spend on level 2.

[nordlav]

Hi, I've enjoyed this build as a "taste test" for my first caster build taken to cap. Probably a newbie caster question, but I've just hit lvl 26 and I when I access the Fatespinner to advance (to lvl 26), the trainable Class feat list does not have "Spell Power: Necromancy" showing for selection as per the OP's build summary. I've followed the build as posted and appear to have the prereqs. I have full 5 ranks in Magister and Draconic and am working through Fatesinger atm. No Divine destiny spheres accessed yet.
Am I missing something obvious here?

[unbongwah]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destiny_Feats

Oddly, you need to max out a Divine ED before you can take Epic Spell Power: Negative, even though - ya know, Pale Masters. :rolleyes: Instead I would probably take ESP:Force or whatever's your primary DPS Spellpower outside Necro.

[nordlav]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destiny_Feats

Oddly, you need to max out a Divine ED before you can take Epic Spell Power: Negative, even though - ya know, Pale Masters. :rolleyes: Instead I would probably take ESP:Force or whatever's your primary DPS Spellpower outside Necro.

Thanks very much. I read something along those lines and saw Necro was a Divine only spell focus, but it wasn't quite clear to me how it worked, so I wanted to verify before moving on as you have suggested.

[Zilulil]

Hello, I'm currently duoing with a THF first-life paladin, while playing this build as a first-lifer as well. We've hit 11 recently, and increasing I'm feeling like other than trapping, I don't contribute much. When I try to be more aggressive with spell casting, I find myself out of SP on all but the most generous of quests. I'm curious if this will get better once I get access to the insta-kill spells, if this is just how things are as a first life, or if I'm doing something wrong.

[EllisDee37]

First life, brand new to casters? Yeah, that sounds about right. Spell point management is the main skill new casters have to learn.

Solo tactics and duo tactics are different. Don't worry about kill count when duoing with a paladin. Instead, focus on strategic crowd control, and use area of effect damage over time spells when there are lots of enemies at once. These will both bring tangible (and visible!) benefit to the questing experience and the kill counts will seem less relevant.

One common tactic is to cast web and wall of fire in the same spot. Enemies get stuck and burn, and the paladin can fight right inside it to grab the stragglers that don't get stuck.

A common tactic is to switch to the conjuration archmage school and spam the web SLA, which is super cheap. You can cast a ton of webs that way. Even without wall of fire, webs are great.

Target champions:
- Hold Person is a fantastic way to nullify a champion, and the pleasing blue circles are a welcome sight to any melee character.
- Even better is to charm champions so they work for you. Charm and Dominate are both pretty fun.
- For undead, you can try Halt Undead and Command Undead
- For ooze you can try Ooze Puppet

In general, if your contribution to killing seems like a pointless waste of spell points compared to your party, hang back and focus on selective crowd control instead.

Unfortunately, insta-kills are even more expensive in terms of spell points, so getting insta-kills will definitely not help with your spell point management. But you can greatly improve the questing experience with selective casting. For example, toss down a web and then insta-kill the caster in the back while the paladin chops up the melee stuck in your web.

[trendor]

Where can I find a list of suggested spells to learn each level?

[C-Dog]

The very first line of the very first post has a link to the original version of this updated PT.

In that thread, there are several informative posts...


o https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/394332-Pale-Trapper-for-new-players-(Human-18-2-Wizard-Rogue)?p=4886849&viewfull=1#post4886849
o https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/394332-Pale-Trapper-for-new-players-(Human-18-2-Wizard-Rogue)?p=4888131&viewfull=1#post4888131
o https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/394332-Pale-Trapper-for-new-players-(Human-18-2-Wizard-Rogue)?p=4888195&viewfull=1#post4888195
(among others)

... but I reading the whole thing wouldn't be a bad idea.

(34/23 - Edited to update links to new forum formating)

[DDOstream_Shoemaker]

reserved

i think i want several posts here at the start

let's see, i want a stat/dc breakdown post, a gear post, and probably a tactics post.

okay last placeholder and I should be good to go

I reserve the right to hold this place. Any update on this build? :D

[The_Mud_Man]

Ok. I've been playing this build for a bit now. What sort of gear should I be farming/crafting? I'm level 7.

[Oddler]

I'm currently level 10 testing this build and I have to say I do not enjoy it at all

I think working a light repeater into the build will give it a much better sustain especially at the level im at

[C-Dog]

The first rule (imo) is "Have Fun!" Not every build will suit every player, so delete (or just back-burner as a mule for now?) and start something you might like more!


Arti in place of Rogue adds a bit* of emergency long-ranged DPS beyond spell range, certainly, but you lose out on Evasion, which is a nice thing to have. And there's the issue of no Quick Draw to change back to your casting items. Ymmv which is better.

(* A vorpal repeater, esp w/ a suffix like "of Deception" or "Tendon Slice", is certainly a great equalizer for any build, but without feats (beyond Arti's Rapid Fire) to support it don't expect too much.)

[EllisDee37]

As written you can use a Great Crossbow if you like, and spend AP in the Harper tree to get Int to hit and damage.

[Oddler]

I'm currently level 10 testing this build and I have to say I do not enjoy it at all

I think working a light repeater into the build will give it a much better sustain especially at the level im at

Level 12 now , i just think this build is outdated, necro is week and the healing is so bad in reaper its just not worth it from my experance

I've just invested in the arch-mage enhancement line and its so much easier ! , those SLA rock and now I feel like I can play the wizard to 20

This build feel just outdated

[SirValentine]

Level 12 now , i just think this build is outdated, necro is week and the healing is so bad in reaper its just not worth it from my experance

I've just invested in the arch-mage enhancement line and its so much easier ! , those SLA rock and now I feel like I can play the wizard to 20

This build feel just outdated

The build was created before Reaper existed; of course it doesn't deal with the Reaper self-heal penalty.

But it's a build "for new players"; that's right in the title. New players should not immediately be expecting to excel solo in the hardest difficulty.

The problem might not be the build, but the expectations.

[Merfyn]

But it's a build "for new players"; that's right in the title. New players should not immediately be expecting to excel solo in the hardest difficulty.

The problem might not be the build, but the expectations.Quite true; it shouldn't be considered an "easy button" even if it happened to have wide success.

Still, just like repeater builds, it probably needs an update now that the tree has been revamped.

[Rightous]

not a reply but a question "why isnt a new thread button right there at the top or somewhere on the forum what kind of idjuts make a forum and hide the new thread button

[C-Dog]

not a reply but a question "why isnt a new thread button right there at the top or somewhere on the forum what kind of idjuts make a forum and hide the new thread button
Welcome!

There is, both above the title "Forum:..." at the top, and again at the very bottom. BUT, You don't get to start a new thread until you've been around a while - 30 days, iirc. Cuts down on spambot posting.

(Now apologize to the nice Mr. forum-master :cool:)

[jasii]

Sorry if this qualifies as a necro, but...

I don't see any discussion on this thread about the pros and cons of the Skeletal Knight enhancement, nor do I see any of the build variations taking it. Anyone have any thoughts as to why?

[SirValentine]

Sorry if this qualifies as a necro, but...


Even if it does, it's appropriate!



I don't see any discussion on this thread about the pros and cons of the Skeletal Knight enhancement, nor do I see any of the build variations taking it. Anyone have any thoughts as to why?


Pro: A lever-puller! Well worth spending 1 AP to get.
Cons: Pets in DDO tend to be buggy and squishy and useless for actual tough combat. It's usually a waste to spend more than the minimum trying to buff it up.

[unbongwah]

I don't see any discussion on this thread about the pros and cons of the Skeletal Knight enhancement, nor do I see any of the build variations taking it. Anyone have any thoughts as to why?
Pets (and summoning in general) are bad in DDO on any difficulty above Hard - and even there it's marginal. It gets worse if you multiclass, because MCing delays your summoning spell progression and reduces your pet's level vs pure caster.

If you want to mess with pets/summons, only do it on a pure caster build and take the Augment Summons feat ASAP. Then when you're sick of how underpowered they are, swap Augment Summons for a more useful caster feat and spend your APs elsewhere like the rest of us. :cool:

[C-Dog]

Pets (and summoning in general) are bad in DDO on any difficulty above Hard - and even there it's marginal...
Yeah, pets in combat have 1 purpose - to distract the enemy for a shot or three. If they're beating on your pet, they aren't beating on you - but don't expect much more than just that. AP's spent trying to turn those 1-3 shots into more are AP you could spend on noticeably upping your own DPS/durability, which is something the pet really doesn't add (beyond the short-lived "distraction" factor).

Besides that, there are 3 things that a pet does do...


1) It "alerts" faster than you do. They can sense and locate enemies long before you would otherwise be aware of them. This is true for stealthy enemies as well as ones simply hidden from LoS by terrain. If your pet is clawing at a closed door, then you know there's something unpleasant on the other side (altho' that's always a good bet!)

2) 2nd warm body for levers/pressure plates/etc.

3) If you religiously park it and leave it behind where it's safe, out of combat, then if/when you die you can wait until things calm down, summon it nearby, and it can carry your soul stone to a shrine. This is probably, by far, the best use of a controllable pet.

For some players, that can be worth a couple AP - but no more than that.

[SirValentine]

It "alerts" faster than you do. They can sense and locate enemies long before you would otherwise be aware of them. This is true for stealthy enemies as well as ones simply hidden from LoS by terrain. If your pet is clawing at a closed door, then you know there's something unpleasant on the other side (altho' that's always a good bet!)



The flip side of that being that it also alerts enemies long before they would otherwise be aware of you. :-)






If you religiously park it and leave it behind where it's safe, out of combat, then if/when you die you can wait until things calm down, summon it nearby, and it can carry your soul stone to a shrine. This is probably, by far, the best use of a controllable pet.


Yes, also a good point, beyond just the lever-pulling.

[shawnvw]

Yeah, pets in combat have 1 purpose - to distract the enemy for a shot or three. If they're beating on your pet, they aren't beating on you - but don't expect much more than just that. AP's spent trying to turn those 1-3 shots into more are AP you could spend on noticeably upping your own DPS/durability, which is something the pet really doesn't add (beyond the short-lived "distraction" factor).

Besides that, there are 3 things that a pet does do...


1) It "alerts" faster than you do. They can sense and locate enemies long before you would otherwise be aware of them. This is true for stealthy enemies as well as ones simply hidden from LoS by terrain. If your pet is clawing at a closed door, then you know there's something unpleasant on the other side (altho' that's always a good bet!)

2) 2nd warm body for levers/pressure plates/etc.

3) If you religiously park it and leave it behind where it's safe, out of combat, then if/when you die you can wait until things calm down, summon it nearby, and it can carry your soul stone to a shrine. This is probably, by far, the best use of a controllable pet.

For some players, that can be worth a couple AP - but no more than that.


In my experience, they're not all the same.


Summons (from the Monster Summoning spells) are always lower-level than the caster, so they're good mainly for distraction. The one from Epic Destinies are more durable.
Hirelings can be chosen to match your level, can carry your soul stone, follow orders, and can hold their own in a fight. Plus, you know, healing and trapping.
Pets vary, I think. I've always found the Skeletal Knight (for whom this conversation started) to be tough and useful in a fight. (I always buy the upgrades, and I usually get Augment Summoning because I love being surrounded by summons, hirelings, and pets.)


Are you sure pets can carry soul stones?

[C-Dog]

In my experience, they're not all the same...
Yes, they are, in exactly the way you distinguish them. Pets are "pets", which is what we're talking about. The other two have some things in common, but are what they are.


Are you sure pets can carry soul stones?
100%.

And, fwiw, if one player who started the game in '11 posted it, and a second player who started in '09 supported it, so should you be, too. :cool:

(Edit - for that matter, you started in '06 - How are you NOT sure??? :confused:)