Post Expansion Build: The Lead Cleric (up front melee-Healer)

[Nodoze]

Please review and give any thoughts or improvements you can think of for this build. If you think the over-all idea is really bad or portions don't make sense please say so.

Build Title: The Lead Cleric (Charisma based melee-healing-cleric who fights up front);

Build Idea: Leverage the Purple Dragon Knight's ability to utilize Charisma to hit/damage & build as much Charisma Synergy as possible. Should still be a solid Healer (leveraging mana-free auras/bursts as much as possible) with mana-free Charisma based-melee-DPS leveraging all cleaves & Momentum Swing/Lay Waste (saving Divine Punishment DoT for bosses) & max Charisma Synergy leveraging the high saves & extra turns. The build does not worry about spell DCs and will focus on doing healing/Light with some melee DPS with high survivability on the front line.

Comments: I like Divines (especially Paladins & Clerics) and this was my initial idea on how to possibly leverage the PDK. Frankly found many painful compromises when Charisma & not Strength based; After gearing up I may try to tank with this build leveraging Unyielding Sentinel’s Intolerant Blow & the Paladin Hate enhancements but even those magnifying Divine Punishment & Melee may not be enough hate to keep Aggro... If it can't be a true "self-healing Tank" then I plan to modify the enhancements to focus on being a survivable melee Cleric on the front line healing the Tank with Auras/bursts/spells with semi-decent melee/DPS supplemented with triple-stacked dots. There is a risk this build may be moot soon as there may be better options once WarPriests drop in 19.1;

Race: Purple Dragon Knight (PDK):

Classes:
Fighter: 1: Mandatory till reincarnation available;
Paladin: 6: Sacred Defender Stance & High Saves;
Cleric: 13: Healing & some light based DPS;

Note: Once PDKs can do Reincarnation look at 14-Cleric/6-Paladin or 18-Cleric/2-Paladin, etc;

Base Stats before Gear & Buffs:
Str: 17: 13 (Min for Power Attack) +4 tome at Lv15 (for THF Feats) ;
Dex: 8;
Con: 16:
Int: 12 : 9 +1tome@lv3 & +3tome@lv11 (for skills);
Wis: 8;
Cha: 34: 18+7levels+5tome+4enhancements;

Summary: With Gear & buffs should approach the equivalent of ~50+ Str for to-hit/damage & have well over the equivalent of 50+ stats for all 3 saves;

Note: Considered dropping Cha/Con some and balancing stats more but for now wanted to see what "max charisma" looks like (plus Cha helps 3 saves vs 1 save per each other stat);

Improvements:
+5 Constitution Tome if want Epic Toughness (or +4 tome & +1 from levels);
Tomes on the other stats will obviously help but aren't needed for the build;

Skills: MAX Healing, Intimidate, & UMD (half ranks) with rest in Jump. Will use Quicken instead of Concentration & Stand against the Tide Stance instead of Balance (can't be knocked down in stance). If more skill points end up being real important maybe drop a stat or 2 for more skill points...

Feats:
1F: Bastard Sword
H: Shield Mastery
1: Power Attack
3: Cleave
6: Quicken
9: Empower Healing
12: Great Cleave
15: Improved Critical
18: imp Shield Mastery
E21: THF
E24: iTHF
E27: gTHF
D26: pTHF
D28: ESP-Positive

Enhancements:

Race: Purple Dragon Knight (17pts):
1:T0-Human Versatility (Damage/or no_fail_Saves depending on role);
2:T1-Cormyrean Knight Training (Cha+hit/dmg w short/long/great/bastard swords);
2:T1-Improved Recovery (+10% healing amp);
2:T2-Human Adaptability Charisma;
6:T2-Fighting Style (15% Shield AC+3 TS Max Dex & later, if enough defence, change to +6% Glancing Blow Proc) ;
2:T3-Improved Recovery (+10% healing amp);
2:T4-Improved Recovery (+10% healing amp);
Note: If facing lots of Elemental damage take 2:T3-Shield Deflection (Tower 40% elemental reduction) over something else...

Cleric: Radiant Savant (34pts):
1:T0-Healing Domain (+1 Pos Spell+.5 Universal Spell Power/pt);
3:T1-Extra Turning (prereq);
2:T1-Wand Mastery(scrolls);
1:T2-Pacifism (prereq for Burst,etc);
3:T2-Improved Turning (prereq);
6:T2-Efficient Empower Healing (or maybe Divine Healing);
1:T3-Positive Energy Burst;
6:T3-Intense Healing (+3 CL for Positive Spells);
2:T3-Charisma;
6:T4-Endless Turning;
1:T4-Improved Empower Healing;
2:T5-Positive Energy Aura;
Note: If Charisma ends up being odd swap out 2ap for 2:T4-Charisma;

Paladin: Sacred Defender (29pts):
1:T1-Holy Bastion (+1 Pos Spell Power+2%Fort);
3:T1-Improved Sacred Defense (Saves);
3:T1-Lay on Hands;
1:Sacred Armor Mastery;
2:Saves Boost (+2 & no fail on 1);
3:T2-Improved Sacred Defense (PRR);
1.Divine Righteousness (2%fort+Cha as temp HP & 100% Threat);
1:Sacred Defense Stance (+10prr+50%Threat,-10%movement);
3:Greater Sacred Defense (+20%HP);
2:Charisma;
3:Greater Sacred Defense (+6con);
4:Reinforced Defense;
2:Charisma;

Epic Destiny: Unyielding Sentinel (24ap);
0:T5-Passive Bonuses: You gain Cleric, Favored Soul, and Paladin caster levels equal to your Unyielding Sentinel level if you have any levels in those classes. +50 hp. You gain +1 intimidate for each level of Unyielding Sentinel, including level 0; +5 sacred bonus to natural armor. Gain the Diehard feat. +2 Attack; +50 hp; +10 physical resistance; +2 attack, +1 bonus to reflex/fort/will saves;
0:T5-Stand Against the Tide:?*Sentinel Stance: (Cooldown 20 seconds): Can't be knocked down in Stand Against the Tide Stance.; +1 melee damage, 20% threat generation, 5% fort, +1 reflex/fort/will saves. These bonuses increases while standing still, up to 4 times;
3:T1-Endless Turning (r3);
4:T1-Brace for Impact (r2);
3:T1-Shield Prowess;
2:T1-Confront any Foe;
2:T2-Endless Smiting;
3:T2-Legendary Shield Mastery;
2:T3-Intolerant Blows;
3:3-Endless Lay on Hands;
2:T4-Light in the Dark;
Twist1: T3: Lay Waste; --> When healing Raids: Renewal;
Twist2: T2: Momentum Swing; --> T1:Rejuv-Cocoon or T3:Purity of essence
Twist3: T1: Healing Power; --> T1:Rejuv-Cocoon or keep Healing Power...
Note: If facing lots of Elemental/Light/Force/Sonic damage take Block energy: (while blocking, absorb 30% damage)...

[mezzorco]

I thought of such a build, but why going cleric? Isn't Favored Soul better?
More saves and way more spellpoints are just two advantages you get going FvS, plus they basically share protection tree, and AoV isn't bad either.

[unbongwah]

Str: 13: 10+3tome (Min for Power Attack);
Feats:
Note: Feats are not in the order I would take them but rather listed in importance to the build goals (Healing->DPS);
1: Quicken (mass Heal + uninterruptible);
3: Empower Healing (healing)
6: Maximize (healing, Divine Punishment);
9: Power Attack
12: Cleave
15: Great Cleave
18: Improved Critical
21: Shield Mastery
24: imp Shield Mastery
27: Bastard Sword?
1F: Toughness?
H?: Epic Toughness? (with +4 tome or level up)
You wouldn't be able to take any metamagics @ lvl 1, since PDK starts ftr. So what 3 lvl 1 feats were you thinking of; Toughness, Shield Mastery, and b.sword? If PDKs can take human DMs, I was also thinking Least Finding or Passage DM might be interesting.

+3 tomes can't be taken until lvl 11, so you would not be able to take PA/CL/GC before then; e.g., take your 3 metas @ lvls 3,6,9, PA @ 12, IC:Slash @ 15, ISM @ 18, CL @ 21, GC @ 24. 27 can be eToughness or another meta.

I thought of such a build, but why going cleric? Isn't Favored Soul better?
Cleric 17 gets you lvl 9 spells; FvS 17 does not. Since you have to start ftr on a PDK and Divine Grace is still pal lvl 2, that limits your options. Also maxing CHA on a cleric boosts the # of TUs you get; maxing CHA on a FvS only gets you some more spell pts. PDK FvS 18 / ftr 2 might be an interesting alternative, but that's a different build.

[Nodoze]

You wouldn't be able to take any metamagics @ lvl 1, since PDK starts ftr. So what 3 lvl 1 feats were you thinking of; Toughness, Shield Mastery, and b.sword? If PDKs can take human DMs, I was also thinking Least Finding or Passage DM might be interesting.

+3 tomes can't be taken until lvl 11, so you would not be able to take PA/CL/GC before then; e.g., take your 3 metas @ lvls 3,6,9, PA @ 12, IC:Slash @ 15, ISM @ 18, CL @ 21, GC @ 24. 27 can be eToughness or another meta.
I thought of such a build, but why going cleric? Isn't Favored Soul better?
More saves and way more spellpoints are just two advantages you get going FvS, plus they basically share protection tree, and AoV isn't bad either.Cleric 17 gets you lvl 9 spells; FvS 17 does not. Since you have to start ftr on a PDK and Divine Grace is still pal lvl 2, that limits your options. Also maxing CHA on a cleric boosts the # of TUs you get; maxing CHA on a FvS only gets you some more spell pts. PDK FvS 18 / ftr 2 might be an interesting alternative, but that's a different build.Starting at level 17 is nice but Feats are a PITA. Thanks for great ideas on how to do it while taking the free levels.

Regarding Favored-Soul vs Cleric, my intuition was that there was actually more "Charisma Synergy" with the Turns and leveraging the Radiant Aura & Bursts. Besides Unyielding Sentinel bringing more survivability to the table (including not being able to be knocked down) my hope was that between double-max-speed regenerating turns (endless turningx2) & max regenerating Lay-on-Hands (LoH) & Light in the Dark that I would use less mana via Aura/Bursts/AoE-LoHs & maybe keep up or exceed the healing over time that a FvS can do as the heals aren't mana-dependent.

I am thinking of an post-expansion AoV FvS build as well but wanted to focus on Cleric first in part as we would need to wait until PDK Reincarnates are available to get 18 in FvS to get Level 9 spells anyway.

[Nodoze]

Skills-wise I am particularly interested in what people recommend for a melee cleric post expansion. Planning on staying in 'Stand Against the Tide' Stance so I can't be knocked down do don't know if I need much balance. Don't know what the new spell casting & healing skills do & if this build would need them. UMD ?

Also curious if people think this build would be able to Tank or not compared to other tanks from both a survivability & hate/aggro stand point. It would be sad to invest in Intimidate and find I am too squishy or can't hold agro anyway & then find out that Turbine isn't going to release Reincarnates for a long time.

[unbongwah]

Don't know what the new spell casting & healing skills do & if this build would need them.
The magic skills boost Spellpower: IIRC, Heal skill is for Pos. & Neg. spells, Repair is self-evident, Spellcraft is most DPS lines (inc. Light), and Perform is Sonic(?!). So I'd say you want Concentration, Heal, and Spellcraft, possibly with Balance and/or UMD.

[maddmatt70]

Your spell points will be anemic with a low wis and this kind of splash on a cleric. If you have cocoon or etc and play the right kind of quests and with the right kind of group can get away with it. Not sure this build will get you much bang for your buck from a melee dps standpoint. I would have a bigger splash to be honest because what does level 17 cleric with no dcs and smallish spell pool really get you? With radiant servant your aura is better I suppose with 17, but you get the cure spell level raising ability anyway.

I would go with a deeper splash as a melee cleric something that would get you more dps. With the PDK you have to have a fighter apparently and paladin with the charisma advantage obviously is nice its too bad because some other classes are more promising or some sort of splash with a different combination. 13 cleric 5 fighter 2 monk or dex based 13 cleric 4 monk 3 assassin. Alot of people have talked about fighter/monk combinations, but ninja spy/assassin is awesome you get a ton of sneak damage for very little investment and a cleric could make a dex based build using short swords for example and have a fairly high reflex evasion save to go with the high will and fortitude save they get. Just some different ideas.

I am not sure you get much with your current build from a melee standpoint. You might as well go with a 17 FVS 2 paladin 1 fighter which would at least give you a massive spell point pool and sick saves although you lose true resurrection and radiant servant aura.

[maddmatt70]

Oh sorry misinterpreted what you wanted. You want more of a tank. Unclear without providing the thresholds - hit points for example. Obviously you will have problems holding aggro.

[Nodoze]

Oh sorry misinterpreted what you wanted. You want more of a tank. Unclear without providing the thresholds - hit points for example. Obviously you will have problems holding aggro.Thanks for the candid feedback in both posts.

I did want to try to see if I could fit being a Tank & Healer into one build successfully & be left with any DPS.

I was hoping that the large number of turns & the ~50% reduction in time to regenerate turns for Auras/Bursts & the regenerating Area-of-Effect Lay-on-Hands from 'Light in the Dark' would compensate for the lower spell point pool.

I was hoping that with +1000% Sacred bonus to threat from Intolerant Blows I might be able to lock down a boss with triple stack Divine Punishment and melee as that should hopefully match a regular Paladin Tank's hate.

I was originally very excited because I saw the Paladin SD Enhancement for the +20% hit points only had a ML 3 & that once I could get a LR+1 to go 17Cleric/3-Paladin I could have the pieces fully in place... Unfortunately my excitement was dampened because I later found I need to be at least a Minimum Level 6 Paladin to get the SD Stance to be able to use the ML 3 enhancement (stupid ordering to me).

The above being said, "hoping" is not the same as running the numbers nor play testing... I will try to run the numbers and see where it ends up but your intuition may well be that it will come up way short trying to be a tank and also do all the other stuff.

Bottom line is that I have a caster/healer and wanted to mix it up via melee while still healing. Even if I found Tanking was too much of a stretch I wanted to end up with a healer that can heal up front while doing melee and not be too squishy. I will think about it some more as well as other combos like 17fvs/2pal/1fighter (even though I really love the Radiant Aura/Bursts for healing and will find it hard to give up).

[maddmatt70]

Thanks for the candid feedback in both posts.

I did want to try to see if I could fit being a Tank & Healer into one build successfully & be left with any DPS.

I was hoping that the large number of turns & the ~50% reduction in time to regenerate turns for Auras/Bursts & the regenerating Area-of-Effect Lay-on-Hands from 'Light in the Dark' would compensate for the lower spell point pool.

I was hoping that with +1000% Sacred bonus to threat from Intolerant Blows I might be able to lock down a boss with triple stack Divine Punishment and melee as that should hopefully match a regular Paladin Tank's hate.

I was originally very excited because I saw the Paladin SD Enhancement for the +20% hit points only had a ML 3 & that once I could get a LR+1 to go 17Cleric/3-Paladin I could have the pieces fully in place... Unfortunately my excitement was dampened because I later found I need to be at least a Minimum Level 6 Paladin to get the SD Stance to be able to use the ML 3 enhancement (stupid ordering to me).

The above being said, "hoping" is not the same as running the numbers nor play testing... I will try to run the numbers and see where it ends up but your intuition may well be that it will come up way short trying to be a tank and also do all the other stuff.

Bottom line is that I have a caster/healer and wanted to mix it up via melee while still healing. Even if I found Tanking was too much of a stretch I wanted to end up with a healer that can heal up front while doing melee and not be too squishy. I will think about it some more as well as other combos like 17fvs/2pal/1fighter (even though I really love the Radiant Aura/Bursts for healing and will find it hard to give up).

Well if you have cocoon twisted and the regenerating light in the dark that does go a long way. On raids like EE FOT alot of my guild's clerics/FVS will be in unyielding. Just saying that it will be tight from a spell point standpoint.

It has definitely been possible in the past to be a tank/healer. It is unclear to me how light spells fair and how divine punishment's dps will be affected by the enhancement pass. Now hate will go up for many builds I would project so not sure how feasible DOT tanks will be likely, but I am guessing less feasible. The devs changed the pally enhancement for the later sacred defender stances requiring a shield and also they always had the 6 levels for paladin. What this means is the hit point tanks are going to be shield bearing fighters or paladins although monks get a little. Hate on the other hand is easier to get, but that is easier to get for everyone.

The build does not do much dps so really if it is not a feasible tank I would make something else.

[Nodoze]

+ rep'd both maddmatt70 & unbongwah for taking the time to give detailed feedback & recommendations for what to take when &/or improvement.

Thanks everyone for contributing!

[unbongwah]

How important is Mass Heal these days? I'm wondering if a deeper splash - e.g., cleric 15 / pal 3 / ftr 2 - would help out enough on the tanking / survivability front to make up for not having lvl 9 spells.

[Nodoze]

How important is Mass Heal these days? I'm wondering if a deeper splash - e.g., cleric 15 / pal 3 / ftr 2 - would help out enough on the tanking / survivability front to make up for not having lvl 9 spells.I was thinking the same thing. From a pure healing standpoint due to the new Radiant Savant's Enhancement "Cure Focus" you have No maximum Caster Level on Cure Wounds spells though I am not 100% sure the limit is removed for Mass Cure spells... That being said the beauty of Mass Heal is more than just the healing as you also cure all ability damage and the conditions blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feeble-minded, insanity, nauseated, and poisoned are removed...

I tried to think through even something like "Paladin-6/Cleric-14" after a LR+1 for full Sacred Defender Stance including at least the +20% Hit Points & possibly the +6 Constitution but then you are limited to 7th level spells. This also further waters down your auras/bursts & I don't know if your caster level would stack both Cleric & Paladin levels even when casting spells both classes can cast... If Divine Might was still a generic +to-hit & +to-damage then it would be much stronger. Couple all of this with not getting Divine Might nor rages nor Psionic boosts to strength and other stuff strength based melee have I get more & more irritated with Turbine's implementation of Charisma based options...

As much as I want to try to make a viable divine Charisma (ideally Cleric Tank) build my priority right now is focusing on being ready for our regular weekly session next Monday or Tuesday Evening after the expansion hits... I think I am going to try to tackle things in the following order:

- Finalize Build for our Party's Human Paladin Tank (I need to draft out the full build);
- Finalize the build for our Party's H-Orc Barbarian (need to find or draft a build);
- Finalize build for my Party Human Cleric (caster/healer);
- Try to put together an alternate Divine Charisma based PDK 17fvs-2Paladin-1Ftr (later maybe LR+1 to 18FvS/2Paladin) to see if I like that more.
- Compare the PDK-17fvs/2pal/1ftr (18fvs/2pal) vs PDK-Cleric options we have discussed above to see which one, if any, I want to invest time in leveling...

[unbongwah]

I've been trying to come up with a viable cleric tank for...well, let's just say it's been a pet project for a long time now (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/270829-Radiant-Defender-(dwarf-cleric-18-ftr-2)?highlight=). ;) My hope has always been that Dwarven Defender PrE would finally make it doable; but...well, 3 years later and we still don't have DD to play with. :( On the plus side, the augment & crafting systems make it a lot easier to slot DPS, tanking, and caster gear all at once than it was 3 years ago.

[Nodoze]

I've been trying to come up with a viable cleric tank for...well, let's just say it's been a pet project for a long time now (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/270829-Radiant-Defender-(dwarf-cleric-18-ftr-2)?highlight=). ;) My hope has always been that Dwarven Defender PrE would finally make it doable; but...well, 3 years later and we still don't have DD to play with. :( On the plus side, the augment & crafting systems make it a lot easier to slot DPS, tanking, and caster gear all at once than it was 3 years ago.I am right there with you. I was hoping for a viable Dwarven or even Human Dwarven-Defender Cleric Tank for a long time also (as originally in the enhancements pass Humans were supposed to be able to unlock any racial tree). I have been playing my static party human cleric since early 2009 which before that was a Dwarven Battle Cleric (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/183557-Recommendations-for-a-New-DDO-party?p=2205865&viewfull=1#post2205865) and keep searching for a way to make a viable melee Cleric Tank. I think that is why I have always liked your threads & contributions on the Cleric threads...

EDIT: I am not giving up on eventually building a viable Cleric Tank... It just may not be ideal at this point but hopefully one day.

[Nodoze]

One of my buddies has a fighter tank build that he is slowly leveling (currently 14/15) and wants some help and coincidentally the Iconics start there so I think I will create a PDK sooner than later. Since the SD enhancements require the stance that you only get at level 6 I think I am going to try to put together a PDK Paladin-6/Fighter-1/Cleric-13 and later maybe try a LR+1 to a PDK Paladin-6/Cleric-14 just to see how strong the auras/bursts are & how helpful they are. My goal will be for both of us to do mana-free melee DPS and see if the high Charisma & regenerating turns/LoHs compensate for the lower mana pool. Once I finalize the build I will try to remember to update the OP.

[Nodoze]

... I tried to think through even something like "Paladin-6/Cleric-14" after a LR+1 for full Sacred Defender Stance including at least the +20% Hit Points & possibly the +6 Constitution ...

As much as I want to try to make a viable divine Charisma (ideally Cleric Tank) build my priority right now is focusing on being ready for our regular weekly session next Monday or Tuesday Evening after the expansion hits... I think I am going to try to tackle things in the following order:

- Finalize Build for our Party's Human Paladin Tank (I need to draft out the full build);
- Finalize the build for our Party's H-Orc Barbarian (need to find or draft a build);
- Finalize build for my Party Human Cleric (caster/healer);
- Try to put together an alternate Divine Charisma based PDK 17fvs-2Paladin-1Ftr (later maybe LR+1 to 18FvS/2Paladin) to see if I like that more.
- Compare the PDK-17fvs/2pal/1ftr (18fvs/2pal) vs PDK-Cleric options we have discussed above to see which one, if any, I want to invest time in leveling...I finished re-spec'ing our Paladin, Barbarian, & caster/healer & thought more about the FvS vs Cleric options... Besides being a little biased toward clerics I figured most people are going the FvS route and I like to try to be different & try something new...

That being said I fleshed out a PDK 6-Paladin/13-Cleric/1-Fighter (later maybe LR+1 to 6-Paladin/14-Cleric) and posted it up at the top in the Original Post.

Thanks again everyone for the input.

[firemedium_jt]

I did not see Divine Might in there. That should be a must have on this build.

You should take more feats. I like CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2. I like to take the clr/WIZ1 first, but they took away force manipulation, so it is not necessary now. Go CLR17/FTR1 first. Get those spells.

I like the cures as substitutes for scrolls now, but the mass cures and cures are still less efficient than Mass Heal and Heal with Metas on. With Metas off they are nice if you are out of turn undeads.

I like the new inherent spells that do not increase spell point use with metas on for clerics. My melee is still great with all the feats and epic desitinies, but the inherent spells are soooo cheap to use it is nice.

As for the build... I would save quicken for later.

I was thinking of doing the same type of build, but I am going to wait some. Let me know how you like it.

As a melee you need more feats to open up epic destinies.

Yah your spell points will be less, but if you manage well you may be surprised how little sp you need meleeing mobs. I don't dump wisdom on most my builds though. I do more of a Generalists.

For this build all you need STR for is the Power Attack requirement, so take the min I guess.

[firemedium_jt]

Well this new forum sucks. cant edit. takes too long to load cause it sucks.

See you want to be a tank, so the Pally makes sense.

You will still miss Mass Heal I think, but have fun with the build. It looks well thought out mostly.

[Nodoze]

I did not see Divine Might in there. That should be a must have on this build.

You should take more feats. I like CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2. I like to take the clr/WIZ1 first, but they took away force manipulation, so it is not necessary now. Go CLR17/FTR1 first. Get those spells.

I like the cures as substitutes for scrolls now, but the mass cures and cures are still less efficient than Mass Heal and Heal with Metas on. With Metas off they are nice if you are out of turn undeads.

I like the new inherent spells that do not increase spell point use with metas on for clerics. My melee is still great with all the feats and epic desitinies, but the inherent spells are soooo cheap to use it is nice.

As for the build... I would save quicken for later.

I was thinking of doing the same type of build, but I am going to wait some. Let me know how you like it.

As a melee you need more feats to open up epic destinies.

Yah your spell points will be less, but if you manage well you may be surprised how little sp you need meleeing mobs. I don't dump wisdom on most my builds though. I do more of a Generalists.

For this build all you need STR for is the Power Attack requirement, so take the min I guess.
Well this new forum sucks. cant edit. takes too long to load cause it sucks.

See you want to be a tank, so the Pally makes sense.

You will still miss Mass Heal I think, but have fun with the build. It looks well thought out mostly.Thanks for the review/feedback! Yes posting in this forum is very hard.

With the changes to Divine Might now giving bonus to Strength instead of a general + to Damage it no longer helps builds based on other stats (Charisma, Dex, etc) but I hope they change it back and if so it will be a huge boon to this build (and I will certainly add it back then).

Trying to make it Tankable with some DPS does indeed cause compromises & Healing with this build will be different that my other healers. Losing Mass Heal is new to me but there are still lots of AoE heals via Aura/Bursts/Mass Cures though only the Mass Cures are target-able AoEs... The AoEs will be supplemented with single target Heal, Rejuv-Cocoon & Renew to see how I like this approach verses Mass Heal.

Regarding metas for healing, the ED Healing SLAs (Renew & Rejuv-Cocoon), Heal, & the Aura can only be meta'ed via Empower Healing & Quicken so I am not sure that I absolutely need more metas (especially considering lower mana pool)... I contemplated adding Maximize for my Burst & the mass Cures but decided so save the spell points & Feat to go max melee Feats instead...

The new Cleric spell damage SLAs are indeed very cool but I can't do PDK, SD & RS & have many real points to put into DD. I was trying to just focus on being a solid Healer & being very survivable & Melee DPS (instead of spell DPS). To find out it can serve as an actual "self-healing Tank" would be a huge bonus but frankly I will be happy if I can't really Tank (& self heal) but end up with an extremely survivable solid mana-efficent front line healer with decent DPS...

Regarding Quicken I will start the Iconic Hero at 15 and want Quicken as I will be leveling with a buddy running a non-self-healing Melee and will need to be able to spot heal him (and myself) if separated (or out of turns).

I am going to do some more testing before I put too much time into leveling & gearing it. I am also building a FvS version to compare contrast before investing the time to play / level.

I am a little concerned on your statements "You should take more feats" & "As a melee you need more feats to open up epic destinies".

What Feats are missing that you deem Critical and if you had to swap a feat to take them what feats would you swap (considering the goals) ?

Can you elaborate what feats I am missing to open which Epic Destinies?

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I added a Favored Soul version for contrast/compare differences:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423279-Post-Expansion-Build-The-Tankish-FvS-%28Charisma-based-melee-self-healing-FvS%29?p=5074325&posted=1#post5074325