help me build a bard

[skaught78]

So, almost done with my ranger life. I've decided I want to play a bard next life. I've decided to go with Bard because it's totally different from my play style, which has been almost exclusively Melee (3 fighter lives, 2 tempest Ranger lives). Also I like their past life feats. Problem is, I have no idea how to build one! I'm thinking either spellsinger, or warchanter. Being as I am used to melee combat, I was thinking I might do best with warchanter, or at least, it wont feel terribly foreign. But seeing as how I want to play something new and different, I'm thinking spellsinger.
I'm strongly leaning towards spellsinger. My question is, can a spellsinger still be in the front lines of combat? My past 5 lives I've been the player who rushes headlong into combat before anyone even realizes we're under attack (I always group). Am I gonna die if I play this way as a spellsinger? How about as a warchanter?

What other roles does the bard serve in a party? How are they useful? What are their weaknesses? Is there a race best suited to bard? And last but not least, whats the best way to allocate my build points?

Sorry for so many questions. This class is completely foreign to me! Thanks so much in advance!

[Wanesa]

So, almost done with my ranger life. I've decided I want to play a bard next life. I've decided to go with Bard because it's totally different from my play style, which has been almost exclusively Melee (3 fighter lives, 2 tempest Ranger lives). Also I like their past life feats. Problem is, I have no idea how to build one! I'm thinking either spellsinger, or warchanter. Being as I am used to melee combat, I was thinking I might do best with warchanter, or at least, it wont feel terribly foreign. But seeing as how I want to play something new and different, I'm thinking spellsinger.
I'm strongly leaning towards spellsinger. My question is, can a spellsinger still be in the front lines of combat? My past 5 lives I've been the player who rushes headlong into combat before anyone even realizes we're under attack (I always group). Am I gonna die if I play this way as a spellsinger? How about as a warchanter?

What other roles does the bard serve in a party? How are they useful? What are their weaknesses? Is there a race best suited to bard? And last but not least, whats the best way to allocate my build points?

Sorry for so many questions. This class is completely foreign to me! Thanks so much in advance!

Playing Halfling Bard Spellsinger with Weapon Finesse and it is fun. With WF i can focus on Dex and Cha, other is dump (some points on str and con). Worse melee ability can be boosted by racial sneak bonus and trained bluff skill. As support toon it is better to wield paralyzing bow and stay back, cast buffs and heals.

[skaught78]

Good advice. Sounds like a fun build, which brings up another question: If I'm a bard, will the party expect healing from me? I am completely incapable of party healing! My current ranger build I have strongly speced out for healing, but only for self heals. I can heal for upwards of 150-200 hp! Which is nice, but if I notice someones health getting low and decide to help out the party healer, I'm just not fast enough. It's the sole reason I will never go completionist! Refuse to do my healer lives.

[Soulfurnace]

Hi, a few suggestions if I may.
1) https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/181-Bard Is the normal place for a bard build. (or just anywhere on class forums. Sorry, had to say!)
2) My bards are 16/2/2 bard/rogue/fighters.
2 rogue for evasion and traps, 16 bard for bard.. stuff, 2 fighter for feats. (and martial prof)
I tend to go THF to save feats, spam cleaves, take quicken.. works well.
Play it like a melee with heals and buffs, levels into str. Why? Because unless you're building for CC's, ignore CC. Just swing harder.
3) You seem to be confused about something - You will not die any more as a bard than as, say, a ranger. Either prestige works for melee, just remember to heal. That's the #1 cause of death, seeming lag is a lie.
4)If you take no advice but this, it'll be worth it: No class has a specified role. No class is incapable of melee. Some are just better than others. Bards are versatile. And anything can melee.

What roles, aside from dps does a bard server? Buffs, the ability to not die due to self hjealz, trap skills if rogue levels (due to high skill points), dps (melee or ranged, depending on preference) and, of course, the ability to heal party members.*

How are they useful? Didn't I just answer that?!
Weaknesses? Uh. No Heal, Mass (can't be the best raid healer), less sp than a cleric, no great offensive spells (nor incentive to build for them), no abundance of feats, somewhat squishy... That's about it imo. Oh, and you won't have the best dps.

Races, meh. Anything will work, I like human for another feat and the enhancements.

Build points, well. Depends on what you're doing.
The THF build I proposed? Lots of str, good amount of con, some charisma (for spellcasting, not needed with an item), rest wherever.

Just to emphasise something: any class can melee decently. Esp with self healing.
My 17/2/1 cleric is a blast - it has overwhelming crit, can raid heal, has manyshot... And plays in dreadnought (or FoTW, depending on group). So feel free to melee that bard!

*Note. This isn't required, and is mainly down to practice in my experience. My eyes are glued to the red bars if I don't know the people, that's just habit.

[Wanesa]

Good advice. Sounds like a fun build, which brings up another question: If I'm a bard, will the party expect healing from me? I am completely incapable of party healing! My current ranger build I have strongly speced out for healing, but only for self heals. I can heal for upwards of 150-200 hp! Which is nice, but if I notice someones health getting low and decide to help out the party healer, I'm just not fast enough. It's the sole reason I will never go completionist! Refuse to do my healer lives.

Yes, explore the linked forum on the above article. You will see a lot of builds with various focuses - a lot of ppls want to focus on DPS - they keeping warchanter line and additionally multiclass with fighter. Other are focusing on CC, healing, etc.

I have started strictly pure (no splash) bard which will focus to play role as sidekick. Because I am PUGing in most of the time, my role is depend on party type. If there are a lot of tanks and DPS I am playing as buffing and healing toon, especially when there is no spot for cleric remaining. Even with cleric it is not always win, cleric can have less experience with healing, or you can often meet with battle clerics that can barely heal self. In the heavy battle a backup healer is always handy. Bard can cast Mass Cure spells.

Spellsinger is best for parties full of casters. They will love you. One songs make spells cheaper, second song boosts max caster level, third song fills their SP pool (you can also play this song for self).

Rogues in the party - Play Inspire Competence while trapper is searching for trap. Helps much!

In balanced parties with one or two tanks, one or two casters and one cleric, you can help tanks with DPS because as halfling you did possess racial sneak attack with bonus to hit and to damage (currently I have +12/+15). Similar to rogue, you can control agro using skills bluff and diplo (boosted by charisma).

Last but not least role of bard is CC. Pick all charming spells and boost perform for fascinate. Because many ppls start to complain when they see charmed monsters, put uncharm feat as hotkey to release charmed monster as soon as everything around is killed :)

Stats: DEX 16, CHA 16, remain to STR an CON.
Skills: Bluff, Diplo, Conc, UMD, Perform. Consider Hide and Move Silently if you have remain skill points. Many bards are wasting points on haggle, this is not my cup of tea :)
Feats: Magical Training. Weapon Finesse, TWF, ITWF, Maximize (boosts cure spells), Precision, SpellPen/Improved Critical (depend on gear)
Spells: Cure spells, Haste, Blur, Displacement, Rage, Good Hope, Suggestion, Mass Suggestion, Dominate Person, Otto's dancing (all levels).
Gear: WF halfing benefits from high DEX bonus on light armor. Craft item with mobility feat (increases DEX cap on light armor), persuasion (+3 UMD/Bluff/Diplo). Weapons - rapier, short sword, daggers, always with proc (paralyzing, banes, slicing and bleed, holy, pure good, polycurse dagger + paralyzing weapon is irresistible - don't forget to train Remove Curse or Break Enchantment)

This is my suggestion. It is different gaming experience. I can see only one disadvantage. This build is not for soloing.

[PsychoBlonde]

I'm having a lot of fun this life playing a rogue 2/ranger 2/bard whatever's left--but I have gear that's just not available for a first life character like the abbot raid quiver and bow. The amount of damage that bow kicks out at mid-level is actually pretty impressive.

[katz]

ooo! a bard thread! my favorite!


if you like melee, don't hesitate to build a melee bard. even a spellsinger can melee.

i would say don't rule out virtuoso (song of capering is nasty fun... especially if you enjoy the occasional bout in the pvp pit XD), but that will be a moot point in a few days, so whatever.


What other roles does the bard serve in a party? How are they useful? What are their weaknesses? Is there a race best suited to bard? And last but not least, whats the best way to allocate my build points?

bards are consummate buffers.. in addition to their songs (which cannot be dispelled by beholders, by the way), they have loads of great utility and combat buffs like GH, FoM, haste, rage, etc. in addition... UMD as a class skill and usually at least a decent cha score gives them the ability to cast almost everything else via scrolls and wands. also, even the MOST combat oriented bard can still CC with fascinate. charging headlong into a room full of mobs while singing fascinate, then picking them off one or two at a time at my leisure is great fun... and a well timed fascinate has saved many a 'oh s***!" situation.

bards weaknesses are... 1. they're a d6 class, so it's a bit harder to build up the big HP (note: certainly not impossible, just gotta work a little harder for it). 2. as good as fascinate is, and as good as bards can potentially be, not alot of people realize these two things, and people will frequently rush around hitting all your nicely fascinated mobs because they're in the mindset of "oh **** kill all these mobs ASAP" and don't immediately realize they're not moving anymore... and you'll be the butt of "piker" jokes from time to time... especially as a spellsinger... all some people see is 'you sing your little songs then hang in the back' and they don't know what all you're doing.

as for healing... that's a tricky one. that will vary group by group. some people think that only clerics can heal. some people think that anyone and everyone with a cure spell and a blue bar is entitled to keep them up and running (when you find these people, add them to your special "friends" list). some people realize that not everyone likes to, or has enough skill to, keep one eye on the red bars AND do whatever else and then QUICKLY mid combat target the low bar and chose the right spell to fill it back up. most SMART parties will ask if you are comfortable with it, or if you are comfortable with backup healing along side a divine or sometimes a hire. if you aren't just say so. most will be understanding. one more thing is... if you do any raiding at the 20 +/- levels, you will probably be asked if you are comfortable with (or they may just straight up ask you to do it) backup scroll heals on usually the main tank... sometimes the off-tank. this is a boring (because you don't get to fight), but easy, task that pretty much consists of keeping the assigned tank targeted at all times thru the fight and throwing a heal scroll at him every time it comes off it's timer... possibly supplementing with your blue bar if the tank's damage avoidance/mitigation can't quite keep him safe between scroll casts. if you can't no-fail a heal scroll and/or don't have at LEAST wand and scroll mastery 2 or better, don't let them assign you this task.

what race should a bard be? any! human is a good choice for the extra feat. another strong contender is half elf... dilly paladin. big saves! i went halflling... cuz it's FUN!

how to allocate your points? depends if you want to be melee or caster-y... you can safely "dump" your charisma surprisingly low to save the points for melee stats... if you remember to keep the perform skill maxed... but you won't be much of a caster. likewise if you pump the charisma, something has to give elsewhere...

this was how i originally built my main bard (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/315896-critique-please-16-2-2-bard-barb-rogue-THF). i should probably update the thread or make a new one... as i've made several small changes over time... but currently, Pointless as she stands at 24th level (holding 25) if i'm in FotW has almost 700 HP, and in Fatesinger she has over 600 with nothing more than rage and inspire excellence. she tops nearly 700 and 800 respectively while raid-buffed. 38-40 str and 33-34 con (depending on which ED i'm in). with her eAGA she hits for over 100 every swing (and with inspire courage, inspire greatness, inspire excellence, and GH she doesn't miss much) and while in fury has registered crits for over 3,000 (normal crits are in the 300-500 range). she disables EE traps and fascinates EE mobs, and with a combination of haste, rage, and displacement and ghostly from items she practically ignores the efforts to hurt her of all but the toughest mobs on EN and EH.

i built a very similar bard for a friend... fighter instead of barb levels, dual-wielding khopeshes helf dilly paladin. he didn't think he was going like bard. he loved it.

[skaught78]

This is great guys! Very good and helpful advice. I always appreciate players who take the time to post in these threads. I'm leaning more and more towards spell singer, especially now knowing that I can be one and still maintain some ability to melee. I want to play a bard for two reasons, first is because I want to play something different from my norm (like I said 3 fighters, and 2 rangers) that can still do a lot of what those two classes can do since it's what I'm used to and good at. Second is for the past life feats. I'm trying to grind out lots of PLFs for my main and final toon. I do like the bard PLFs. It seems like it would be very helpful. So ultimately, I'll be doing at least two lives of bard, and if I like it enough, I'll grind out a third. Seems like it would be extremely useful to have +6 to saves vs illusions and enchantments! Man that'd be sweet! I wanted to do a third life of ranger to get +6 to ranged damage and +6 ele resist, but I hate the class so much, there's no way I'll have the patience for that, so +4s will have to do! Maybe I'll come back to it after my bard lives. Anyway, I'm thinking out loud and rambling now, So I'll say thanks again for the advice!

[Soulfurnace]

I'm leaning more and more towards spell singer, especially now knowing that I can be one and still have plenty of ability to melee.
Fixed that ;)
With some of the more popular builds these days (namely juggernaut, which is supposedly an artficer :P) being melee with unusual classes, it's becoming quite obvious that anything can melee. And do so well.

Anecdotal proof: My cleric leading the killcount in 90% of quests. (he's not at epics, and that'll die at IQ, because IQ sucks) Based off my math, he should have very comparable damage to a juggernaut - roughly 5/hit behind, but with the ability to raid heal. (not that I heal people anyway)

Cleave, gCleave, a good 2h weapon and a focus on str, anything can melee well. (though not best dps)
The rest is just feats+healing imo.