Bard/fighter

[l0rddan]

Hey all im looking at doing up a bard/fighter splash, focus on buffs and dps for the most part, survivability etc all good too. Going dwarf for the dwarven axe and boost to saves, looking at going TWF obviously. Anyway ive made up an idea of the class thus far just wanted to see what other people think of it and any advice they might have to improve it

Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(6 Fighter / 14 Bard)
Hit Points: 366
Spell Points: 507
BAB: 16/16/21/26/26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 15

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21 22
Dexterity 16 20 20
Constitution 16 19 21
Intelligence 8 11 11
Wisdom 8 11 11
Charisma 12 17 18

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 13
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 13
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 13
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 13
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 13
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 13

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 25 29
Bluff 1 4 4
Concentration 3 7 7
Diplomacy 1 4 4
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 1 4 4
Heal -1 3.5 3.5
Hide 3 5 5
Intimidate 1 4 12
Jump 5 13 13
Listen -1 0 0
Move Silently 3 5 5
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 5 27 27
Repair -1 0 0
Search -1 0 2
Spot 1 3.5 3.5
Swim 5 11 11
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 27 27

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Perform (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I

Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Perform (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (2): Heroism
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Spell (2): Rage
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II

Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I

Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Perform (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Good Hope
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II

Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (4): Neutrralize Poison
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III

Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II

Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV

Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Perform (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II

Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Perform (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I

Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Spell (5): Shadow Walk
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


anyway thanks in advance for any and all feedback

[mezzorco]

In such a split, i would go kensei instead. Anyway, maybe 16/4 is more useful to you, as it grants same BAB, access to Inspire Excellence, Mass Cure Moderate and Otto's Irresistible Dance, as well as a better spell penetration.

I would suggest you to leave cha at 6-8 and put no more points into it during leveling. Cha only gives you more sp, as your DC would be low anyways. I think you could start with 18 str this way. Also, try to put as many ability raises into strenght as you can. Drop Force of Personality.

Power Critical is a poor choice, drop it and take Weapon Specialization instead: it works on every attack. Dodge is not so bad, but Great Cleave is much better.

Hope it helps.
PS: remember, enhancement pass is coming, so I would wait until then before creating a new toon.

[l0rddan]

why the kensei choice? I was tossing up between the two and just thought the stalwart defender gave me better bonuses for ac and health while in stance, and could flick an expedious retreat to make up for the 10% slower movement while in said stance. The 18 strength bit is a good idea though may take a look at that, and noted about the power critical, wasn't really sure what to take there. thanks for the feedback

[l0rddan]

also when I think about it I had the charisma for the saves from force of personality to boost the otherwise weak looking will saves.

[unbongwah]

Some of the bonuses from SD stance are about to become S&B-only, unfortunately. I also don't like bard builds which stop at lvl 14, because you miss out on Inspire Heroics (lvl 15 song), Inspire Excellence (epic feat / song, +2 to all stats, req's bard 15+), and lvl 6 spells (MCMW, Heroes Feast, and Otto's Irresistible are all good options).

I haven't decided if the higher-level bard abilities we're finally getting in the Enhancement overhaul are worthwhile; so I'm still fond of the classic bard 16 / rog 2 / ftr 2 combo. Especially since your Reflex saves should be pretty good (high base DEX + bard lvls + dwarven spell defense + Greater Heroism), making Evasion pretty dang useful.

[mezzorco]

Kensei gives: +1 to hit, damage, tactical DC, ref saves, +2 to confirm criticals and critical damage (before multipliers) and 1 more action boost per rest.
Compared to Stalwart, you're a bit less tanky but to me bonuses it gives seem more valuable in a DPS perspective. Also, 10% speed penalty hurts more than one would think: you would be 20% slower than a barbarian, this means he will start killing before you can get there.

Moreover, you're a dwarf and have fighter levels, so you're a perfect candidate for making good use of tactical feats. Maybe you could consider making space for Stunning Blow, and taking dwarf and ftr enhancements to DC. This way kensei would be even more valuable to you.

About Force of Personality, your will save will be low anyway. In order to gain 5 will, you're sacrificing one feat slot, 6 initial stat points, and 2 raise points while leveling. You don't gain anything else, I don't think it's a good investment.

[goodspeed]

kensei's gonna give you the stuff now. Unless you wanna slap a shield in your hand. Was ****ed cause I did the same thing and got an extra 150 hp. But, with the rework and those racial tree's id gladly give that hp up for that sick dmg that that axe wields now.

I did my cuttoff at lv 12 bard.

[NovaNZ]

Hail I0rddan

'Fraid I gotta agree with taking more than 14 lvl bard.

Im running playing with bard16/ftr2/rog2. with enhancement pass - I tried WC focus first - really missed Sp regeneration.
Changed enhancements to SS and build it Dex based TWF - much better overall for me anyways.

Here is something to consider. Will try this out my main
Dex based Bard 15 (SS with some WC enhancements), Rog 3 (acrobat for Q-staff, assassin etc), Ranger 2 (feats, and dex to weapon damage and feats).

weapon finesse, TWF chain, imp crit pierce, emp heal, and Extend initially changed out to another feat at higher levels.

This would work well in fatesinger, or primal avatar or Fury.

GL

[mezzorco]

Here is something to consider. Will try this out my main
Dex based Bard 15 (SS with some WC enhancements), Rog 3 (acrobat for Q-staff, assassin etc), Ranger 2 (feats, and dex to weapon damage and feats).

weapon finesse, TWF chain, imp crit pierce, emp heal, and Extend initially changed out to another feat at higher levels.

Ranger 2 doesn't provide dex to damage, you need ranger 6 and tempest core.

EDIT: I'm wrong :)

[Urist]

Ranger 2 doesn't provide dex to damage, you need ranger 6 and tempest core.
There's a tier 2 enhancement in the DWS tree - Improved Weapon Finesse (IIRC) - that lets you use dex for damage with any finessable weapon, if you have the Weapon Finesse feat.