My Post U19 Pure Human Rogue Mechassin

[Deathdefy]

Looking for feedback; I'm generally satisfied, but think it could use some tweakage, and am particularly up in the air about whether Improved Evasion is necessary on a build that takes Epic Reflexes.

Stats: Human - 36 points.
STR - 9 (1 point)
CON - 14 (6 points)
DEX - 17 (13 points) +4 Tome <-- 21 Dex needed for Combat Archery and Improved Sneak Attack.
INT - 18 (16 points) + All Level-Ups. Full breakdown later.
WIS - 8
CHA - 8

Feats:
1 - Rapid Reload, Insightful Reflexes
3 - Completionist (far from essential and a Toughness instead would be good. To be honest, on a first-lifer I'd probably roll up a Shadar-Kai for coolness factor and put Insightful Reflexes here). <-- Put H-RXB Proficiency here instead until level 12 then swap it out, regardless of which feat ultimately goes here.
6 - Point Blank Shot
9 - IC: Ranged
10 - (Improved Evasion - swap with Opportunist if you're less paranoid about Von 5 Trap Corridor)
12 - Precise Shot
13 - (Opportunist)
15 - Improved Precise Shot
16 - (Crippling Strike)
18 - Precision
19 - (Slippery Mind)
Epic 1 - Improved Sneak Attack
Epic 4 - Combat Archery
Epic 6 - (Pierce Silver?!) <-- other options are Pierce Adamantine and Plain Ol' Toughness
Epic 7 - Epic Reflexes <-- My personal build will be non-negotiable on this, but I willingly concede it's flavourish on a build with Improved Evasion. "Blinding Speed" is a logical replacement
Epic 8 - Doubleshot <-- Yes, you only get 3% per bolt, but that's still 3% Doubleshot!

Skills:
1-3: Balance,Bluff,Diplomacy,DD,Hide,Jump,MS,OL,Search, Spot,Tumble,UMD,Intimidation
4-12: Same + Conc with all spare points
13+ Same + Conc (only 1 point since you've made up the debt and can't put more in) + Haggle or Repair with all spare points. I'll be going Repair.

You can tweak this even more if you care about jump cap, but honestly, I care more about being able to jump around public areas with greater abandon (where I would never bother using Morah's Belt for +30 Jump) than I do about an extra 14 points in Repair or Haggle.

Enhancements:
Human -
1 - Damage Boost Core
1 - Int + 1 Core
1 - Skills Boost Core
1 - Int + 1 Core

2 - HAMP 10%
6 - Sniper 3 (2d6 Sneak Attack when Ranged, +2m Range) <-- I THINK: it might be 4d6 SA and 4m ranged if it stacks.
12

Acrobat -
1 - Acrobat Core <-- Because Dex to Quarterstaff to-hit isn't a pointless and annoying waste of AP.
3 - Faster Sneaking 50%
4


Mechanic -
1 - Arbalester Core
3 - Thunderstone (Daze AoE grenade with borderline usable DC = 16 Base + 10 Rogue/2 + 1 Improved Traps + 28 Int Mod = 55.. 56 if you swap Wrack Construct for another rank of Improved Traps.)
1 - Faster Disabling

1 - Tanglefoot Core
3 - Wand Heightening (Gotta heigthen dem wands!) *grumble*
1 - Improved Traps (+1 Thunderstone DC!)

1 - Improved Detection Core
6 - Wand/Scroll Mastery 75%
2 - +1 Int
1 - Wrack Construct (Just 1 point so you can do the -10% fort on Shroud Portals)

1 - Targetting Sights Core <-- And there was much rejoicing for Int could be applied to x-bow damage
2 - +1 Int
23


Assassin -

1 - Knife In the Darkness Core Kukri proficiency AND free Dex-to-hit with epic Midnight's Greetings!
2 - Sneak Attack Training
2 - Heartseeker Poison Strike, -1 Fort Save <-- Probably entirely useless as it's melee only and you'll only melee to get close and press 'assassinate', but seems the 'best of the rest' to open Tier 2.

1 - Dagger in the Back Core
6 - Venomed Blades <-- I have no idea if this works on ranged or not. If it does not, it's an awful choice!
2 - Sneak Attack Training

1 - Assassin's Trick Core
2 - Sneak Attack Training
2 - +1 Int
3 - Critical Accuracy

1 - Nimbleness Core
2 - Sneak Attack Training
2 - +1 Int
3 - Critical Damage
3 - Killer
2 - Execute <-- NB This is largely nonsense on this build; it's a 500pt damage melee attack when the enemy is under 20% HP. I think it has marginally more utility than all other options to spend the final 2 AP to be able to purchase the capstone.

1 - Lethality Core
1 - Assassinate
3 - Measure the Foe

1 - Deadly Strikes Core
41
= 80

Epic Destiny - Shadowdancer
Twists:
Level 3 - Otto's Whistler
Level 2 - Pin
Level 1 or 2 - +1 Int... but Magister Reflex bonus or Brace for Impact or even Stay Frosty are all non-crazy. Coccoon doesn't make an abundance of sense without Empower Heal and I don't love Healing Spring but going for self-healing better than SF pots and Heal Scrolls is a very reasonable decision.

Tier 1:
2 - +1 Int
3 - Stealthy

Tier 2:
2 - +1 Int
1 - Lithe

Tier 3:
2 - +1 Int
1 - Shrouding Shot
3 - Grim Precision

Tier 4:
2 - +1 Int
1 - Improved Invisibility

Tier 5:
2 - +1 Int
1 - Untouchable

Tier 6:
2 - +1 Int
2 - Shadow Form
24

Obviously that's also all subject to personal discretion. You do really want Shadow Form for the 25% Incorp, Stealthy for +6 Assassinate, and Grim Precision for the fort bypass. The "Cloak of Shadows, Shadow Manipulation, Consume" can be taken if you're willing to swap out 3 +1 Ints (which is basically just 2 Assassinate DC if you free up your third twist).

Stat Breakdowns:

Int:
18 Base
8 Level-Ups
11 Item
1 Exceptional
3 Insightful
2 Completionist
4 Tome
2 Human Enh
2 Mech Enh
2 Assassin Enh
2 Assassin Capstone
6 Destiny
1 Twist
2 Ship
2 Yugo Pot
= 66 (MOD 28)

Assassinate DC:
10 Base
20 Rogue Levels
6 Stealthy from Shadowdancer
2 Midnight's Greetings
28 Int MOD
= 66
5 Measure (Waiting 10 Seconds in Stealthy pre-attempt)
= 71
4 Curse (Possible but unlikely)
= 75
Other strange things that almost definitely won't happen
1 Hitting with a Shatter Weapon
3 Improved Sunder
1 Heartseeker Poison
= 80

Realistically, it's 66 for a mid-combat assassinate dc which is 'ok'. I think it would be not unreasonable to use a cursespewing repeater to bring that to 70, but that's obviously a trade-off against a higher damage repeater I'm unconvinced I would take.

Inherent Sneak Attack Damage:
Sniper: 2d6
Assassin: 8d6 (4 Sneak Attack Trainings + Capstone)
Rogue: 10d6
Shadowdancer: 5d6
Improved Sneak Attack Feat: 3d6
=28d6 = 3.5 * 28 on average = 98

Items:
Tharne's Goggles or other +5 SA Item = 8
Epic Stalker or other +3 Exc SA Item = 5
= Average total SA of 111 per bolt.

Reflex save:
12 Rogue
4 Epic Levels
28 Int
7 Resistance Item or Augment
4 GH
2 Luck
2 Epic Reflexes
1 Competence Alchemical
1 Sacred (Ship Kobold)
4 Insightful (Superior Parrying)
2 Lithe
1 Minimum roll on a d20
= 68

+Rogue Past Lives x 2 on traps specifically
= 70 for me.

70 seems high, no doubt, but whether it's at the point of 'no-fail' on a 1 for everything (aside from post-FoT debuff where obviously it isn't) I'm unsure. I think it's probably high enough that it's worth getting Epic Reflexes.


Playstyle Chat:

Pew-pew, assassinate, pew-pew, assassinate, THUNDERSTONE, pew-pew, assassinate. I largely have included Thunderstone because it seems funny and I want to type 'THUNDERSTONE' in all caps in chat, but I am hopeful it's good having not tested it on Lammaland. There's no cooldown listed, but I assume it has one otherwise it is the best thing ever and I will TR to make a build centered entirely around it.

I'd love to have had a bit more SA range increase, but as a human it's hard (H-Elf gets freebie 2m with every core enhancement) and I think I need the human bonus feat thanks to stupid completionist. I still have 2m from Sniper and 5m from Arbalester, so I'll see how that plays in-game. I have a sense of the currently SA range in that it's about 1 pixel outside of Harry's melee attack zone in Part 5 of shroud, but I don't actually know how many 'm' that is.

On assassinate, I actually ran a repeater assassin a while back and assassinate works quite well even without any of the TWF fighting line. I was still getting double assassinates on occasion. I realise how much sense that makes, and I don't have a SS to back that story up, but well, it's true. As my first rogue with assassinate I didn't realise that it was noteworthy until I was discussing it post-that-life with others.

Anyway, my concerns are:
1) Self-Healing. +75% heal scrolls are nice, but a bit terrifying. I'm used to that healing style on a ranged character given my penchant for fleshie AM wizards, but I'm worried that given I need to enter melee range to assassinate, it'll be a little more interesting.

2) Damage on things immune to assassinate. It'll be 'ok' I imagine. I like repeater damage and have endured 3 Ranger and 3 Monk lives to further bolster it. I don't know. I'll see how guilt-wracked I am about not-contributing on EE red names. I also still don't have needle, but will be making that a priority.

3) Is taking Improved Evasion idiotic since I have evasion and epic reflexes? Is taking Slippery Mind and Crippling Strike similarly stupid. I just hate 'wasting' feats on +1 skills via skill mastery, but I am aiming at EE, and I am thinking that probably all of them will be useless.

4) Sneak Attack range.

5) Assassinate DC. It sounds high, but having experienced EE GH walkups I don't know if 66 will cut it. Maybe I'll always have to wait the full 10 seconds for Measure to max out, or actually go with a cursespewing crossbow. Gross. In any event, if this Int hog can't cut it I'll remind myself to be grateful I didn't make a Pale Master.

6) Epic feat level 26. Is there an obvious choice of DR bypass type or is Toughness the better call.


Any and all feedback welcome, don't feel obliged to answer my questions.

[ReaperAlexEU]

i have a 2nd life halfling mechanic working back to cap and have been wondering what to do with him come the update.

i had a bit of a rummage before closed beta and felt the pain of trying to get back all the sneak attack dice from the assassin tree that was littered with melee attacks. my first attempt was a medium investment in mechanic (for the INT dmg) and a heavy investment in assassin while avoiding all the melee stuff. i also took that opportunity to mess about with the epic destinies as i had TRed before those came out. didn't really get much feedback on the enhancements as a result as i was having too much fun with the destinies and new monster awareness AI (yay for being able to scarper round a corner and hide!)

looking at the wiki again today i was wondering how workable a melee assassin strike then switching back to my chosen play style of the repeater would be. so it was nice to find your thread going over that exact idea.

have you looked at swapping execute for shadow dagger? for the same investment it will be 6 DC lower (14DC + 10 rogue vs 10DC + 20 rogue) than your assassinate ability for a chance to blind. or drop another point and it's only 2 DC behind. seems a chance to blind for that juicy SA damage is better than the wasted melee attack.

also the tangleroot mechanic attack might be worth a quickbar slot though that will be a full 10 DC behind for an AoE chance to slow mobs. if you're building for EE then i doubt it will work, but if you're ever playing with trash in an EH then with your level of gear it could be fun

as for sneak attack range, last time i was in epics was pre-menace and i found the bog standard sneak attack range was just fine for my active play style, so getting bonuses on top will make that even better. leaves be a bit worried about the self healing though as while i loved my boosted scrolls back then things will be a bit more painful this time!

i'm more concerned about DEX to hit. at the moment i'm DEX based with INT to boost damage. if i try to make assassin fly then i will need to make the swap to INT base. i get all funny when my primary to hit stat is not the one i'm pumping. what DEX would you feel comfortable with in EH's?

life for my mechanic will be easier as i'm not aiming for the EE's, just the EH's. so i think this mix will work quite well. would be nice to see it work up at EE too for you

[Deathdefy]

i have a 2nd life halfling mechanic working back to cap and have been wondering what to do with him come the update.

i had a bit of a rummage before closed beta and felt the pain of trying to get back all the sneak attack dice from the assassin tree that was littered with melee attacks. my first attempt was a medium investment in mechanic (for the INT dmg) and a heavy investment in assassin while avoiding all the melee stuff. i also took that opportunity to mess about with the epic destinies as i had TRed before those came out. didn't really get much feedback on the enhancements as a result as i was having too much fun with the destinies and new monster awareness AI (yay for being able to scarper round a corner and hide!)

looking at the wiki again today i was wondering how workable a melee assassin strike then switching back to my chosen play style of the repeater would be. so it was nice to find your thread going over that exact idea.

have you looked at swapping execute for shadow dagger? for the same investment it will be 6 DC lower (14DC + 10 rogue vs 10DC + 20 rogue) than your assassinate ability for a chance to blind. or drop another point and it's only 2 DC behind. seems a chance to blind for that juicy SA damage is better than the wasted melee attack.

also the tangleroot mechanic attack might be worth a quickbar slot though that will be a full 10 DC behind for an AoE chance to slow mobs. if you're building for EE then i doubt it will work, but if you're ever playing with trash in an EH then with your level of gear it could be fun

as for sneak attack range, last time i was in epics was pre-menace and i found the bog standard sneak attack range was just fine for my active play style, so getting bonuses on top will make that even better. leaves be a bit worried about the self healing though as while i loved my boosted scrolls back then things will be a bit more painful this time!

i'm more concerned about DEX to hit. at the moment i'm DEX based with INT to boost damage. if i try to make assassin fly then i will need to make the swap to INT base. i get all funny when my primary to hit stat is not the one i'm pumping. what DEX would you feel comfortable with in EH's?

life for my mechanic will be easier as i'm not aiming for the EE's, just the EH's. so i think this mix will work quite well. would be nice to see it work up at EE too for you

I have changed up the build through experiment on Lammania and have ended up with something that largely accords with your thoughts I think. I'm resolved to just LR+20 my main into pure rogue, so am stuck as a half-elf - which alleviated my sneak attack range concerns to such a degree (via bonus +10m from taking the 5 core abilities) that it feels a little silly how far back I can stand. In retrospect, I'd say Arbalester is plenty of PBS / SA range.

Honestly, Shadow Dagger it's tempting, and I only didn't take it as I nearly always use a Repeater of Radiance which causes blindness without a save on crit (and does damage). I'd probably take it while levelling or if I had a crossbow that grossly outclassed my radiance one or if I did not yet have a Radiance crossbow.
TL;DR Repeaters of Radiance obselete it (in my opinion; there are certainly arguments to be made about length of time it can take to score a crit), but failing that, great enhancement.

I have definitively given Execute the boot. The time it takes to swap weapons to a melee thing and use it is at least a volley of bolts worth, and that's more than 500 damage, so it's just a silly pick I regret listing having now seen what x-bow damage looks like at cap.

Other thing worth mentioning is that Venomed Blades does work on ranged, so that's in for sure.

My Assassin tree is currently: Assassinate, Measure, All Sneak Attacks, 2 Int, Heartseeker poison (hard to justify as it's melee only, but it's a party friendly thing and I sympathize with DC wizards so might use it occasionally), Venomed Blades (3/3), Damage Boost (1/3), all the Cores + capstone, then 3/3 Crit accuracy, 3/3 Crit Damage, 3/3 Killer.

Killer is just using points to qualify for the capstone. It might be smarter to dump killer into damage boost, but I'll see how it goes on live in a party; I just can't get a feel for it on Lamma.

Re: Mechanic tree

Tangleroot is in. The DC appears passable even for some of the existing non GH EEs - it'll be 56 if I ever reach cap on live - and it's non bugged unlike Thunderstone. I also take 3/3 Improved Traps (for +3 DC) largely on account of it. The slow is really effective, and the damage might even do a thing in heroics.

Thunderstone is probably out. But only because the DC is bugged. I think it's stuck at 0? The CR 0.25 Lammania test kobolds save 95% of the time. I've bug reported it though, so will test on live, but at the moment I think it's a no-goer.

The Mechanic tree for me is currently: First 3 Cores; I stop before Improved Detection since Artificer dilettante gives me H-RXB proficiency, and I just don't have the points to spend one on +50% trap detection distance as genuinely useful as that sounds. 2/3 Mechanics (filler-ish, but +saves is nice), 3/3 Thunderstone (mean to change it, but want to test it first; will probably turn into 3/3 Mechanics and 2/3 Awareness), 3/3 Improved Traps, 2 Int, 1/3 Wracking Shot. EDIT: 3/3 wand/scroll too!

In my opinion, Dex as to-hit is a non-issue if you're sneak attacking. There's a huge bonus to-hit just from doing so. When not sneak attacking it's still fine, but this is on my main who is pretty well equipped and is a half-elf with the +4% accuracy benefit from cores and +3 to-hit from Fighter PLs... that's just for the sake of full disclosure; I don't think either of those benefits is doing much and think if you have 30ish Dex you'll be golden.

It's also worth noting that in the expansion there are +11 to-hit competence bonus items, so I don't think it's a huge concern - having said that, I have not played around in the new quests on EH or EE, or even EGH, but Von 1 EE I had a play with and to-hit wasn't a problem in the slightest.

For the sake of a hard number though, if my Dex said 30 I'd be perfectly happy in EH. My rule for dex on ranged used to be 'qualify for IPS' and that'll be enough with items, and it was in pre-MOTU days. Now it's 'qualify for Combat Archery' and that seems to be fine too. Just get a dex item and treat it as your secondary stat to care about after Intel and it takes care of itself.

[ReaperAlexEU]

at lvl14 i was quite chuffed to find i could get enough mechanic to use both repeaters and enough assassin to get assassinate :)

i'm going to continue to 20 as DEX based then gather the gear i need to swap to INT based. once i'm at 20 i'll see how i can hit 30 DEX without any levelups, seem to remember struggling to hit 30 with levelups last time. i assume 30 is the magic number to hit at 20, not after 20 with the higher level stat items.

at the moment i'm sporting a single dagger for my assassination attempts, my to-hit seems very low with 2 weapons and i'm not sure about using a quarterstaff as i don't want to clobber any other nearby mobs with glancing blows, which i assume wont proc the assassination.

i am loving the new stealth mechanics, planning how to bump off 1 mob at a time is a nice change of pace from my other characters. thats one reason DDO is such a good game, so many different play styles!

[phillipsjr1]

Other thing worth mentioning is that Venomed Blades does work on ranged, so that's in for sure.


Hey, I don't see any poison damage come up when I'm pew-pewing- how can I tell if venomed blades is working on ranged?

[Deathdefy]

Hey, I don't see any poison damage come up when I'm pew-pewing- how can I tell if venomed blades is working on ranged?

It's finicky. You definitely should be seeing it if it's working.

I've had to click the toggle on and off a few times to make it work (despite it claiming to be on with the highlighted border and all). You should get the poison icon damage type next to the poison damage on each shot once it's actually 'on'.

It also weirdly turns off every now and then - mostly in public areas between quests is my theory.

[ReaperAlexEU]

Hey, I don't see any poison damage come up when I'm pew-pewing- how can I tell if venomed blades is working on ranged?

it looks like a green water drop icon in the damage numbers. did you drag the stance from your character sheet enhancements screen to a quick bar and toggle it on? darn thing also turns off when you log out

[CThruTheEgo]

Your int numbers are slightly off. There are only 7 level ups, not 8. And you can only take human int once, at least your not supposed to be able to take the same stat.

[Choopak]

Sup guys

I'm running a triple TR drow assassin, base on this build.. .and it's hard! Only level 4, no repeater yet...
Archer stance is nice, so is poison stance, but when i have aggro, it's bad!
Also, lots of mobs see me when i stealth, might be gear?? (skills are plentiful and max out)
Anyway, was wandering if 2-3 levels of artificer would help... would lose cap stone, but gain:
Free weapon prof, rapid reload, summon bolt!!, runearm use for added damage and effect, and insightful strike for INT to hit...
Overall not bad for 3 levels, still be 17 rogue so assassinate DC is not hurt badly.
Any toughs? never played a single class rogue before...

[ReaperAlexEU]

Sup guys

I'm running a triple TR drow assassin, base on this build.. .and it's hard! Only level 4, no repeater yet...
Archer stance is nice, so is poison stance, but when i have aggro, it's bad!
Also, lots of mobs see me when i stealth, might be gear?? (skills are plentiful and max out)
Anyway, was wandering if 2-3 levels of artificer would help... would lose cap stone, but gain:
Free weapon prof, rapid reload, summon bolt!!, runearm use for added damage and effect, and insightful strike for INT to hit...
Overall not bad for 3 levels, still be 17 rogue so assassinate DC is not hurt badly.
Any toughs? never played a single class rogue before...

at lvl 4 do a quick enhancement respec. you can get the great xbow and light repeaters from mechanic at lvl3 rogue. i also like having the heavy repeater feat at lvl3 which i then swap out later with fred, if you're going to do that though pay for the feat swap now and use the freebie at lvl12, it's cheaper that way.

also group up! nothing like having 5 meat bags in party with you to soak up all the aggro. a rogue is the perfect party animal because it's combat prowess flies up without aggro and they can help with the traps (either to save lives or just for the bonus EXP).

when you mess up and get aggro bluff will give you a few seconds of sneak attack damage (often enough to kill the target at low levels) and diplo will make the mobs re-roll their aggro with you at the bottom. be aware though if you are the only one on the mobs aggro list then you will still be the one they go for, so drag them through the melee's blades before you drop the diplo.

as for the arti splash, that depends a lot on the type of content you are aiming at. i was mid way through a DEX based mechanic life when the enhancement pass came out. so when i could add assassinate to the mix my DC was already behind the curve due to the level ups in DEX. still worked fine to lvl20 so an INT based rogue with an arty splash will also be fine to lvl20. i'm now INT based and at lvl28 and my DC doesn't work in gianthold elites, so with that in mind then keeping a 3 lvl splash will hurt your DC if you plan to run hards or elites.

as a TR you can stash your inventory with quivers full of 75% returning house D bolts for the next life. then you need to focus on house D favour as soon as you're able to before your stock runs dry.

traps are a pain in the neck, max skills and high INT won't be enough for at level elites. you'll need half decent gear (rough aim is the same + to skills as your level is, eg +5's at lvl5) and buffs (pots of fox's and heroism initially)

if you want to focus on the repeaters (not clear as you've posted in 2 threads, one of which mixes the melee in) then i'd aim to get the core mechanic abilities first (up to heavy repeaters, didn't see the need to go further) and the assassin stuff second. at lvl14 if you stay pure you should be able to have heavy repeaters and assassinate. it's a bit of a squeeze though, no room for nice things like faster sneak from acrobat, but that and measure the foe can come next. no harm doing an enhancement respec when you get all 4 pips at lvl14 to optimise for that.

soloing gets easier as you level, especially when you get assassinate and can kill without dropping out of stealth. also twisting in stay frosty and pin will make life easier as you'll be able to control mobs movement a bit more. i'm also partial to the assassins blinding ability from enhancements.

[Choopak]

at lvl 4 do a quick enhancement respec. you can get the great xbow and light repeaters from mechanic at lvl3 rogue. i also like having the heavy repeater feat at lvl3 which i then swap out later with fred, if you're going to do that though pay for the feat swap now and use the freebie at lvl12, it's cheaper that way.

also group up! nothing like having 5 meat bags in party with you to soak up all the aggro. a rogue is the perfect party animal because it's combat prowess flies up without aggro and they can help with the traps (either to save lives or just for the bonus EXP).

when you mess up and get aggro bluff will give you a few seconds of sneak attack damage (often enough to kill the target at low levels) and diplo will make the mobs re-roll their aggro with you at the bottom. be aware though if you are the only one on the mobs aggro list then you will still be the one they go for, so drag them through the melee's blades before you drop the diplo.

as for the arti splash, that depends a lot on the type of content you are aiming at. i was mid way through a DEX based mechanic life when the enhancement pass came out. so when i could add assassinate to the mix my DC was already behind the curve due to the level ups in DEX. still worked fine to lvl20 so an INT based rogue with an arty splash will also be fine to lvl20. i'm now INT based and at lvl28 and my DC doesn't work in gianthold elites, so with that in mind then keeping a 3 lvl splash will hurt your DC if you plan to run hards or elites.

as a TR you can stash your inventory with quivers full of 75% returning house D bolts for the next life. then you need to focus on house D favour as soon as you're able to before your stock runs dry.

traps are a pain in the neck, max skills and high INT won't be enough for at level elites. you'll need half decent gear (rough aim is the same + to skills as your level is, eg +5's at lvl5) and buffs (pots of fox's and heroism initially)

if you want to focus on the repeaters (not clear as you've posted in 2 threads, one of which mixes the melee in) then i'd aim to get the core mechanic abilities first (up to heavy repeaters, didn't see the need to go further) and the assassin stuff second. at lvl14 if you stay pure you should be able to have heavy repeaters and assassinate. it's a bit of a squeeze though, no room for nice things like faster sneak from acrobat, but that and measure the foe can come next. no harm doing an enhancement respec when you get all 4 pips at lvl14 to optimise for that.

soloing gets easier as you level, especially when you get assassinate and can kill without dropping out of stealth. also twisting in stay frosty and pin will make life easier as you'll be able to control mobs movement a bit more. i'm also partial to the assassins blinding ability from enhancements.

Thanks man for fast reply... i will use Fred and buy the feat exchange, repeater will boost my dam until i'm level 6 (min to take targeting sight, which give you light repeater and INT to dam)

Been running with group, gotta love the tanks! and my traps skills are appreciated.

Not use to bluff/ diplo skills, other toons are melee brute, or FvS.

this guy will play epics EN, EH mostly, maybe EE if DC is oki... main reason i went drow full INT, i'm going for range build with repeater, assassinate is a bonus (a good one)

Already have 3k returning bolts, hehe

Traps are usually oki, spot is bad, but my search is crazy! so overall np with them

Thansk again man, will give it another go, and respec more into mech tree and repeater... **** TR took forever to level, lol

[Choopak]

as for the arti splash, that depends a lot on the type of content you are aiming at. i was mid way through a DEX based mechanic life when the enhancement pass came out. so when i could add assassinate to the mix my DC was already behind the curve due to the level ups in DEX. still worked fine to lvl20 so an INT based rogue with an arty splash will also be fine to lvl20. i'm now INT based and at lvl28 and my DC doesn't work in gianthold elites, so with that in mind then keeping a 3 lvl splash will hurt your DC if you plan to run hards or elites.



About the arti splash... you were saying: don't do it! or it's oki, maybe?

[ReaperAlexEU]

About the arti splash... you were saying: don't do it! or it's oki, maybe?

it depends on your goals, if all you want to do is hit 20 and TR then i can't see it messing things up (other than having to wait longer to unlock assassinate)

if you intend to run high difficulty epic content then you will notice the hit to your DC making assassinate less viable.

so, how do you intend to play this character?

also arti 3 might not be the magic fix you need to your situation. you can get repeaters already and just grouping up should sort out most of the agro problems with a bit of work (don't be the first to open fire!)

[Choopak]

it depends on your goals, if all you want to do is hit 20 and TR then i can't see it messing things up (other than having to wait longer to unlock assassinate)

if you intend to run high difficulty epic content then you will notice the hit to your DC making assassinate less viable.

so, how do you intend to play this character?

also arti 3 might not be the magic fix you need to your situation. you can get repeaters already and just grouping up should sort out most of the agro problems with a bit of work (don't be the first to open fire!)

My goals: i want to use that toon in epic, and be a repeater machine gun.

If it's means dropping assassin and going more range dps... so be it!. I like this build cause it's range with a good melee option...
I don't know how range dps will be in EN, EH... hopefully enough! I also wanna be rogue (mostly) for handling any traps!

[ReaperAlexEU]

My goals: i want to use that toon in epic, and be a repeater machine gun.

If it's means dropping assassin and going more range dps... so be it!. I like this build cause it's range with a good melee option...
I don't know how range dps will be in EN, EH... hopefully enough! I also wanna be rogue (mostly) for handling any traps!

hehe, ranged DPS will actually be easier in EE than melee would :)

so far i've gone as high as gianthold on EE. my 63DC assassinate isn't so good vs the melee mobs, but it still works the bulk of the time vs the casters. my Rad II greensteel repeater combined with stay frosty (slow effect chance on hit) and pin (stacking slow effect, works with imp precise shot and has a longer debuff time than cooldown!) greatly adds to my survivability and does it's fair share of killing (imp precise shot and a fist full of sneak attack!).

in EN and EH the assassinate ability rocks, easily makes you one of the parties best caster killers and also helps mop up trash mobs with high hit point pools.

that said if you plan to TR there is no reason you can't take the melee backup to cap and decide for yourself if you want to keep it. i'd be interested to hear someones story on that, but the poster of the build has way too many other projects on at the moment so we wont hear his play through for a while. it certainly looks quite viable, so while i'm happy to have no melee capability i can't see it stopping you especially if you're aiming for EN and EH. that's one great thing about this game, you don't have to play a perfect character for EE to have fun, you can play all sorts of styles at EH and still get years worth of gaming in :)

as an alternative you could do either a pure arti, or an arti with a 2 splash of rogue or monk. arties can do traps, the only thing they lack is evasion, hence the splash. there are also some nice mixed with quite a lot of rogue and arti, one common trick is to get INT to dmg from rogue and INT to hit from low lvl arti spells, though you will still need some DEX for ranged feats, just won't need to gear up for it as insightful reflexes will let you use INT for reflex saves too.

if you are going to take a good chunk of arti you'd do well to look some builds up. i've not got one myself but i have heard they can get a lot of dmg from the runearm by boosting their spell slinging power (most boosts to spells also boost runearms).

[Shadow_Jumper]

Assassin -

1 - Knife In the Darkness Core Kukri proficiency AND free Dex-to-hit with epic Midnight's Greetings!

EMG is a DEX based weapon in the first place, so Knife In the Darkness doesn't affect DPS from that weapon. However it lets you use daggers with a higher DPS rate, making daggers such as Agony some of the best DPS weapons for a rogue.

[VinoeWhines]

DEX based assassins now get more advantages to some degree in padding stats, defense and damage that's for sure.
Though if I will have to stay INT based to be able to range and melee, well that is OK too. The rogue character is not an easy button playstyle, it requires tactics and strategy to stay alive. Intelligence is still viable, I would like to go DEX based, but there's no synergy with mechanic to do so and SD destiny only has one range option that requires DEX for a higher DC and it only proc's a percentage of the time.

I'm running a first lifer and running EE content and it's still doable, challenging yes, but doable, I encourage anyone to keep on working at it to make your character viable. Remember as a Rogue you are versatile, use your options, traps, offensive scrolls, clickies, CC, Melee and ranged.

My logic is partially strenthened by Melkors excellent reasoning in dps. How he use to defend his reasoning why going INT based was just as viable as the old STR based rogue in dps. Assassinate is the strongest DPS.
I build to hit the assassinate numbers and range as a defensive and offensive option.

When the aggro PUGS hits the fan then there's a large group of mobs, the key to staying around is defense and ranging things down to sustainable melee options.
Power Word blind is a nice tool to have around, it takes time to master but you hit a mob with that and switch to melee to assassinate, jump back and range (if you have a CC range option like Pin, Leg shot, Whistler). I also have a rare Improved Curse of Radiance(blinding)repeater or Thunderfoge Blinding Fear, Paralyzing Fear repeater(no Mortal Fear yet).
This Mech-Assassin is still very much do-able and viable guys. Yes the new DEX is shinier and I would like to try it out, but if that means loosing out on my solid ranging option just to hit higher numbers then I'll stay INT based.

I play on Sarlona and would like to two man or so with anyone having doubts if the Mech-Assassin is viable in EE content.
One time I sent a blind tell to a rogue, if they wanted to run Fleshmakers with me on EE. They agreed and ask if I was gonna put up an LFM for it. I just said I believe we should be ok and if it was OK if they would want to run it.
They were kinda hesitant, but unassuredly agreed. I gave some tid bits of tips about laying traps, defensive gear in certain parts of dungeon, stealthing through areas. And ranging at times as well as assassinating opportunities.
They had the assassinating down pat, but in doing this I just wanted to encourage and show that we rogues are capable of running things and thinking outside of the box and able to complete dungeons as well as having our old disabling and pick locking abilities as well.

Though this thread was started before some of the changes came on board, I just want to say that this play style is still viable and as one of the posters mentioned, ranging on EE is a discreet option, that can help you stay up longer than just having only a melee option.

I'm not multi classed, just a pure rogue first lifer, staying relevant in an unforgiving updated world.

[lazlow]

Deathdefy,

With the recent changes to assassin why not go dex based? The answer may be obvious but wanted yours and others thoughts on the change as it pertains to shooters.

Thanks

laz

[lazlow]

Just spotted the 2013 necro being obvious reason why but still would like to read thoughts about the pros/cons of dex based ranged assassin.

thx

Laz.

[Deathdefy]

Just spotted the 2013 necro being obvious reason why but still would like to read thoughts about the pros/cons of dex based ranged assassin.

thx

Laz.

The primary reason for Int on a ranged assassin is so you can use it as your damage and to-hit mods for the crossbow as well. The bonuses of: saving a feat (insightful reflexes) and increasing hide/move silently skills, to me don't make it worth the trade-off for raw crossbow damage (Know the Angles also factors in).

I see the argument though. If you're trying to make a primarily 'solo' super-sneak you could do it. It's not like Int won't be reasonably high anyway, but I'm more party oriented I think.

To be completely honest, I tried this build (I mean updated, but the spirit of T5 assassin, T4 mech) after U25 and didn't find assassinate useful enough to bother with, and now use T5 mech, giving up assassinate entirely.

The Assassin tree is still nice for Sneak Attack boosts (especially with scaling now), Damage Boost, Int and Killer, but for raw dps / even just maximizing kill count, I much prefer the general dps increase from T5 mech.

Time bomb is also somewhat useful even in EEs (though it is also unreliable and remains bugged with the rogue pass over despite multiple bug reports and forum complaints. Really, when the only new, interesting T5 ability in the pass is bugged to high heaven despite general acknowledgement that it is borked it makes you lose a lot of faith.).

[VinoeWhines]

I don't think there are any pro's to a DEX based ranged assassin, besides a higher assassinate score, but I believe that would lower your ranged damaged option all together since it's based off your Intelligence, Now if they did the change over to DEX based damage like they did to the Assassin's DEX to assassinate pass, then ya it might be a no brainer.
The only ranged option that would benefit now, would be the Shadow Dancer DEX'd based shot that has a small percentage chance to assassinate and be on a cool down.