For Review: 2nd life bard

[lokitupgood]

Please comment on the following 2 builds as a first life fighter and was thinking of going bard for the experience. Keep in mind i have my GS greataxe weapons and GS items from first life is the reason for THF line. I'm looking for the better self healing/soloability DPS version of the two builds.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

tr dey bard1
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard)
Hit Points: 290
Spell Points: 512
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 12
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 20 31
Dexterity 8 11
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 11
Charisma 12 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 21
Bluff 1 3
Concentration 5 6
Diplomacy 1 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 3
Heal -1 0
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 1 5
Jump 9 24
Listen -1 0
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock 3 23
Perform n/a 23
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 3 7.5
Swim 5 10
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 5 25.5

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Orcish Fury III


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III




and the next one....


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

tr dey bard2
Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard)
Hit Points: 350
Spell Points: 512
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 12
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 26
Dexterity 8 11
Constitution 18 22
Intelligence 8 11
Wisdom 8 11
Charisma 12 17

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 23
Bluff 1 3
Concentration 6 9
Diplomacy 1 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 3
Heal -1 0
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 1 5
Jump 8 24
Listen -1 0
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock 3 22
Perform n/a 23
Repair -1 0
Search -1 2
Spot 3 8
Swim 4 8
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 5 25.5

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

[Lauf]

Please comment on the following 2 builds as a first life fighter and was thinking of going bard for the experience. Keep in mind i have my GS greataxe weapons and GS items from first life is the reason for THF line. I'm looking for the better self healing/soloability DPS version of the two builds.


first off, both dwarf and horc get -2 to starting cha, which isn't a big deal for you as warchanters don't really need more than minimal cha for casting spells. this however begs the question why are you taking force of personality? it's a weak feat at best, let alone when your cha is low.
granted, you have not completely dumped cha, which leads me to my next question - why haven't you? :D
this is especially puzzling as you've dumped dex. having evasion will do you little good if you don't have any dex to back it up.

you've also mentioned gs weapons as your main reason for the THF line. it's been my experience that cleave and great cleave offer better damage than the THF line.

Also, for someone looking for soloability you seem to be sacrificing your int off the bat, essentially giving up on trapping, which is a shame as you intend to solo and already have rogue levels and evasion. Aside from needing the int for trap skill modifier, you would also want to have those extra skill points, and the more the merrier.

and last but not least, you've mentioned wanting better self healing, which makes perfect sense on a bard build. however, neither race offers you any help with that.

so.... with all that in mind, I suggest the following build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard)
Hit Points: 330
Spell Points: 424
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 17 24
Dexterity 11 14
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 13 16
Wisdom 9 12
Charisma 10 13

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I




human heal amp for an extra 30% healing, human extra skill points and the higher int allow for trapping, raised dex and lowered cha. The starting wis at 9 means that with ship buffs and a swappable +wis item mean you can hit most wis runes when needed. I personally enjoy that ability when soloing quests.

as for feats, picked up cleave and great cleave, took improved crit earlier as you didn't mention if your gs axe is a min2 or a lit2.
downside - lost out on greater THF (oh no! :P)
you lose 3% chance for glancing blows to proc elemental effects, and 10% of glancing blow damage.
you gain great cleave, 3[W] damage to everyone around you. and also incidentally great cleave qualifies you for taking the epic feat overwhelming critical.

comparison to Horc and dwarf? you miss out on damage through enhancements in favor extra damage via great cleave, better survivability, improved healing ability, and having trapping skills.

enjoy

[cru121]

Also a fan of human bards here.
I'd go with Lauf's build (more or less, perhaps slightly different stats). More notably, I'd try to fit Empower Healing and maybe Quicken later. And dump Inspired Attack III for.. something. Probably Bard Scrolls/Wands and/or Human Greater Adaptability Strength.

[supott]

on my first capped toon i tried the 2 handed fighting line and agree it sucked badly.

On a bard with 8 Int, you get 7 skill points with a +2 tome, so still quite possible to squeeze in all the needed Bard/Rogue skills while a bit tight, but you will hav trouble hitting some of the runes in quests.

Going with 8 Cha could still work with a +2 tome since you only need a max of 16 to get lvl 6 spells. At early game you will have trouble in the first few lvls casting spells but since you're a melee, you wouldn't need to so much.

If you were to neglect one rogue ability, it would be Open lock. Nice to have but ok not to as well if you go low Int.

16/17 Str and 16/17 Con vs 18 is probably a wiser choice as those last 2 numbers don't really give that much compared to what they're worth in versatility.

[Lauf]

Going with 8 Cha could still work with a +2 tome since you only need a max of 16 to get lvl 6 spells. At early game you will have trouble in the first few lvls casting spells but since you're a melee, you wouldn't need to so much.


those first few levels are the reason I gave the build 10 cha. According to my leveling suggestion first level spells become available level 3 when the +1 tome kicks in, 2nd level spells become available at level 8 (+2 kicks in at level 7, so no problem there) and 3rd level spells at level 11, same time as the +3 tome. thus enabling spell casting without needing to slot cha items before reaching level 14.

hopefully by that time there should be little to no problem for finding a gear slot for a cha item, solving all future issues. (personally I enjoy using the sora-kell set on battle bards)

if this is not a concern, cha can easily be dropped completely to an 8, I would then put the extra points into dex for a better reflex

[Lauf]

I'd try to fit Empower Healing and maybe Quicken later.

if dropping the THF line, I would suggest considering magical training for one of the 2 feat slots. having echoes of power on a warchanter can go a long way, not to mention the extra spell points.