Epic Sword and board pally tank

[MoonRunner]

Right now I have a 27% double strike, cleave and great cleave and am using a bastard sword. That is as a HoTD and only have my first rank in Draconic incarnation. Now my intention with this build was to keep it HoTD till I leveled my ED's then swap to Defender and grab my DPS from ED's however with my main focus being on my TR lately I really haven't paid a lot of attention to the ED's beyond just grinding through them. My main goal is to build a toon that can tank well. I must stay first life. I would like to stay pure pally but am tempted to do the pally monk thing.

So here are a few of my thoughts/questions. Go see Fred and swap bastard sword for Kopesh. I know kopesh is generally a better weapon but the bastard sword is supposed to get a sword and board bonus isn't it? Either way there seems to be a better selection of Epic Kopeshes than bswords. Is this a correct assumption?

So if just a small feat change is all I did what would be a good route to go with ED's? I currently have enough fate points to have a teir 3 and a tier 2 twist which I currently use for Endless LOH and Hail of Blows but say if I wanted to run some EE what would be my best choice at this point.

My ED chart looks like Level 5 Dreadnought, Fury and sentinel, Level 4 Shadowdancer and level 3 everything else but draconic and magister.

I want to try this and see what I get and if still not satisfied then I might think about a full restoration. But will ask about that later.

[CoasterHops]

Personally I feel its a pretty close contest between Khopesh and Bastard Sword if running sword and board, being a pure pali I am assuming you aren't running any two handed fighting feats which add to glancing bows when using a Bastard Sword and a shield, therefore Khopeshes may be a little ahead.

I actually think there is a better selection of Epic Bastard Swords vs Epic Khopeshes though so this in itself could push towards Bastard Swords.
If you look at the CitW weapons there is the Nightmare the Fallen Moon Bastard sword on trash this is streets ahead of any Khopesh you could find.
If I was planning on running CitW then I would be looking to acquire one of these.

[unbongwah]

Glancing blows seem to be the determining factor in S&B b.sword vs khopesh DPS; in particular, whether or not you have GTHF. With it, it looks like b.sword pulls ahead, esp. if you use Nightmare; w/out it, the difference appears marginal or favors khopesh.

That said, pure pally tanks are so feat-starved, I'd suggest using scimitars (or rapiers) instead of either exotic if not going for full THF chain.

[bsquishwizzy]

Glad I read this. I was wondering if, by taking Khopesh, I had really dorked myself by not going Basterd Sword. Now, it appears, I didn't. Maybe marginally, but not majorly.

[Nocifer_Deathblade]

Bastard sword + Tower Shield is best combo if you are going full with 2h feats and tower shield/shield mastery path (from enhancement and ED unyielding sentinel). I maxed them all and working on getting perfect 2h feat to improve it even more and get twist of fate skills (barbarian) to get more improvement to 2h makes you AWESOME Area of Effect tank equipped with guardian armor for lot of damage by many mobs on you trying to touch either hit or miss will get damaged badly in return while you mow them town with your deadly AOE melee damage 180 degree in front of you.. It's amazing.. Tower shield along with high HP will easily allow you to tank so many mobs against you at once to maximize your dps against many mobs at once. I have AOEing members of my party so it adds up nicely. I do have 150 AC along with 167 PRR and over 1,300 hp that makes job easy as AOE tank.

[maddmatt70]

I disagree with several of the posters here. I think sword and board unless a finesse build has to use either bastard sword or dwarven war axe. With the addition of perfect two handed fighting that is just far too much dps and hate to give up. I would also recommend splashing fighter/monk levels for more feats so you can fit it in these feats.

I like 15 paladin 3 monk 2 fighter and go with a heavy shield and light armor and use a bastard sword or dwarven war axe if dwarf. That is my favorite S&B tank build right now.

[unbongwah]

I disagree with several of the posters here. I think sword and board unless a finesse build has to use either bastard sword or dwarven war axe.
Bear in mind OP and most of the comments were pre-U19. Obviously, S&B build advice will need to be redone. :)

What I would like to be able to do - presuming we finally get Dwarven Defender at some point and it apes Stalwart Defender tree - is something like dwarf pal 15 / ftr 2 / monk 2 (undecided on final lvl) w/S&B abilities from DD (like Shield Striking and Block & Cut), DPS & survivability bonuses from KotC, and some dwarven racial enhs to round things out. I'd have 14 feats (7 heroic + 2 ftr + 2 monk + 3 epic): that's enough for THF x3, SM/ISM/ISB, PA/CL/GC/OC, IC:Slash, with 3 left over to play around with (e.g., Toughness+eToughness, CE, a couple of metamagics or tactics feats, Epic DR or Blinding Speed). For ED feats I'd want PTHF and either Elusive Target or PTWF (+5% doublestrike, doesn't seem to matter if you're dual-wielding or not).

[maddmatt70]

Bear in mind OP and most of the comments were pre-U19. Obviously, S&B build advice will need to be redone. :)

What I would like to be able to do - presuming we finally get Dwarven Defender at some point and it apes Stalwart Defender tree - is something like dwarf pal 15 / ftr 2 / monk 2 (undecided on final lvl) w/S&B abilities from DD (like Shield Striking and Block & Cut), DPS & survivability bonuses from KotC, and some dwarven racial enhs to round things out. I'd have 14 feats (7 heroic + 2 ftr + 2 monk + 3 epic): that's enough for THF x3, SM/ISM/ISB, PA/CL/GC/OC, IC:Slash, with 3 left over to play around with (e.g., Toughness+eToughness, CE, a couple of metamagics or tactics feats, Epic DR or Blinding Speed). For ED feats I'd want PTHF and either Elusive Target or PTWF (+5% doublestrike, doesn't seem to matter if you're dual-wielding or not).

If dwarf swap out bastard sword for shield mastery. I like stunning blow just not sure it will be high enough to be worthwhile. Epic DR is a waste on a sword and board in unyielding they just have mega physical resistance as is. CE is a possibility to instead of overwhelming critical or epic toughness - anyway just depends on what the build needs.
Human shield mastery
1 fighter bastard sword
2 fighter spring attack
monk 1 dodge
monk 2 mobility
1. power attack
3. cleave
6 great cleave
9 two handed
12 improved two handed
15 greater two handed
18 improved shield mastery
21 improved shield mastery
24 overwhelming critical
26 Epic skill focus intimidate/toughness
27 force of personality/epic toughness
28 perfect two handed fighting

I like 3 monk for the shintao 5% healing amp and 10% positive spell power with core ability 2.

[maddmatt70]

excuse me swap improved shield mastery which I have typed twice with icrit slash.

[Ralmeth]

If dwarf swap out bastard sword for shield mastery. I like stunning blow just not sure it will be high enough to be worthwhile. Epic DR is a waste on a sword and board in unyielding they just have mega physical resistance as is. CE is a possibility to instead of overwhelming critical or epic toughness - anyway just depends on what the build needs.

I'm actually testing out Stunning Blow on my Paladin, just because I HAVE to know if you can get your DCs high enough with the change to divine might. However I level slowly so it could be a while before I can post any useful feedback.

[unbongwah]

I'm actually testing out Stunning Blow on my Paladin, just because I HAVE to know if you can get your DCs high enough with the change to divine might. However I level slowly so it could be a while before I can post any useful feedback.
Off-topic, but what do you think of ftr 12 / pal 4 / rgr 4? Ftr 12 for Power Surge + Keen Edge + Kensei DPS bonuses; pal 4 for Divine Grace + Might + other KotC goodies; rgr 4 for feats + Ram's Might + 10% offhand proc (if TWF). I know everyone's all about the centered monk / Kensei these days; just trying to come up with something a little different.

[Ralmeth]

Off-topic, but what do you think of ftr 12 / pal 4 / rgr 4? Ftr 12 for Power Surge + Keen Edge + Kensei DPS bonuses; pal 4 for Divine Grace + Might + other KotC goodies; rgr 4 for feats + Ram's Might + 10% offhand proc (if TWF). I know everyone's all about the centered monk / Kensei these days; just trying to come up with something a little different.

Fighter 12 is really strong, so you can't go wrong with that. As for splashing Paladin, your smites and LoH are going to be hardly worth bothering with. Divine Might and Courage of Heaven seem like the best things to grab from the Knight tree with a low level splash. However without smites being worth it, you'll have to waste 4 APs on tier 1, just to grant access to Divine Might, making Divine Might really cost 10APs. That seems pretty pricey to me. So it doesn't make sense to me, unless you want 2 Paladin levels for the bonus to saves.

[unbongwah]

The idea is Exalted Smite is for the crit bonus, not so much the static bonus dmg (tho that helps). And it's really only one small part of the concept.

In any case, I've put my idea into action - or at least a new build thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426129-Weekend-Warriors-3-Faithsworn-Hunter-(ftr-12-rgr-4-pal-4)). :)

[Ralmeth]

The idea is Exalted Smite is for the crit bonus, not so much the static bonus dmg (tho that helps). And it's really only one small part of the concept.

In any case, I've put my idea into action - or at least a new build thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426129-Weekend-Warriors-3-Faithsworn-Hunter-(ftr-12-rgr-4-pal-4)). :)

I figured you were think about going with exhalted smite. I'm curious what the crits will look like with Power Surge going. The build looks interesting. The true test is that you'll have to play test it to see how it works out:)

[unbongwah]

I figured you were think about going with exhalted smite. I'm curious what the crits will look like with Power Surge going. The build looks interesting. The true test is that you'll have to play test it to see how it works out:)
Dang it, I knew there was a downside to coming up with all these builds! Why can't I find more guinea pigs willing to play-test them for me?! :p

[Ralmeth]

dang it, i knew there was a downside to coming up with all these builds! Why can't i find more guinea pigs willing to play-test them for me?! :p

lol:)

[HuneyMunster]

If dwarf swap out bastard sword for shield mastery. I like stunning blow just not sure it will be high enough to be worthwhile. Epic DR is a waste on a sword and board in unyielding they just have mega physical resistance as is. CE is a possibility to instead of overwhelming critical or epic toughness - anyway just depends on what the build needs.
Human shield mastery
1 fighter bastard sword
2 fighter spring attack
monk 1 dodge
monk 2 mobility
1. power attack
3. cleave
6 great cleave
9 two handed
12 improved two handed
15 greater two handed
18 improved shield mastery
21 improved shield mastery
24 overwhelming critical
26 Epic skill focus intimidate/toughness
27 force of personality/epic toughness
28 perfect two handed fighting

I like 3 monk for the shintao 5% healing amp and 10% positive spell power with core ability 2.

Think of trying this with a PDK, prob is no Lesser Reincarnations and only feat swaps could change order I think works. Also had to take into account that I have to add 1 level in terms of tomes. Also should be able to use most scrolls without fail.


STR 13 (+2 to 4 tome upgrades)
DEX 10 (+3 tome)
CON 15 (+4 to 5 tome upgrades)
INT 9 (+1 to 3 tome upgrades)
WIS 8 (+3 to 4 tome upgrades)
CHA 18(+level ups and +4 tome)

1pdk,2-11paladin,12-13monk,14-15paladin,16fighter,17-19paladin,20paldin or monk?
1 Human shield mastery
1 fighter bastard sword
1 power attack
3 cleave
6 great cleave
9 two handed
12 improved crit slash
12 monk dodge
13 monk mobility
15 spring attack
16 figher improved two handed
18 greater two handed
21 improved shield mastery
24 ???
26 Epic skill focus intimidate/toughness
27 force of personality/epic toughness
28 perfect two handed fighting

As they build uses Charisma for hit and damage I cant take Overwhelming Critical. Not sure what to replace it with, but was think Empower Heal unless anyone has better.

[Snorfer]

What I would like to be able to do ...THF x3, SM/ISM/ISB, PA/CL/GC/OC, IC:Slash, with 3 left over to play around with (e.g., Toughness+eToughness, CE, a couple of metamagics or tactics feats, Epic DR or Blinding Speed). For ED feats I'd want PTHF and either Elusive Target or PTWF (+5% doublestrike, doesn't seem to matter if you're dual-wielding or not).

Sword and Board isn't Two-Weapon fighting, it's Two Handed Fighting? Though there are different tools in each hand? Did I just bork myself respecting my S&B fighter to TWF (because he's using two weapons to slash and bash, and not 2 hands on one weapon)?

I have a paladin I'm trying to finish and I want to know how to spec the pally on TR. So lost here on these Feats.

S&B benefits from THF? TWF? Both?

Thanks in advance.

[unbongwah]

First off, gratz on rezzing a 4 1/2 year old thread. ;) But this thread predates a lot of changes to S&B, in particular the paladin buffs and addition of Vanguard tree in Update 23. So I would suggest you go to one of our more recent S&B pally threads:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/451677-Sacred-Vanguards-(aka-Revisiting-S-amp-B-Paladins-for-New-Players)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470842-Vanguard-Paladin-for-new-players

You should find answers to most of your questions there. But to cover a few specific questions:

S&B benefits from THF? TWF? Both?

Virtually all S&B builds will have the Shield Mastery feats, which boost Melee Power, doublestrike, and PRR.
If you use bastard swords or dwarven axes while S&B, you will also get glancing blows (http://ddowiki.com/page/Glancing_blow), which are boosted by the THF feats. Hence why you take both THF and Shield Mastery feat chains on S&B builds which use those weapons. EDIT: the Melee Power from both feat chains doesn't stack, though, so you wind up with 6 MP total (not 12) if you have all 5 feats (SM x2 + THF x3).
The regular TWF feats do nothing for S&B. However the +5% doublestrike bonus from the Perfect TWF feat applies to ALL melee styles, not just dual-wielding.