View Full Version : Bard Thinking about rolling a "trapchanter" ... any advice?
(Edit note, no longer planning to finish as a warchanter, so the "trapchanter" part may not be all that accurate any more. Planning to switch to Spellsinger eventually. Latest build plan is in post #20.)
Yeah, silly newbie tries something again...
Now, I've seen mentions about bards being self-sufficient and all that, I suppose I could try that myself too.
I do have one warchanter going already, and traps on elite are getting to be a problem when not having a rogue (or artificer) along with no worthwhile spot, search, evasion, or disable. Especially in a PUG, or a regular (real-life family, most of the time) group with the rogue absent - soloing is actually a bit easier...
So, given that I see mentions about trap-skilled bards every now and then but most of the relevant links are broken (and while I can figure out how to mangle the URL from old thread-based links, I still don't know what to do about old post-based links - anyone?), I tried to figure out how to do that with the planner...
Does this look like it might work? Any suggestions on how to make it better with f2p resources? Like, what about going 15/3/2 instead? Fighter instead of ranger, khopesh proficiency in exchange for some skill points, bow strength, rapid shot and favored enemy - is khopesh that good?
Swap OTWF for something else, maybe? Like weapon finesse (well, take it earlier, really), go DEX-based and put a few points into CON/WIS too for saves (especially fort and will do seem quite low...) ?
And, yes, this is TWF, because I find glancing blows sort of annoying with my current THF warchanter already, and this thing occasionally gets a bit of sneak attack in too. Besides, with dex for reflex saves and thus working evasion, it doesn't seem like much of a problem...?
Yes, I could do drow as an alternative, but would that help any? Would some other race be better? I sort of think that all three of drow's +2 stats would help in this case?
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 226
Spell Points: 490
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 20
Will: 9
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 13
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 10
Bluff 4 5
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 0 1
Disable Device 5 24
Haggle 4 5
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 5
Intimidate 0 5
Jump 7 10
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 3 5
Open Lock 6 8
Perform n/a 24
Repair 1 1
Search 5 25
Spot 3 23
Swim 3 5
Tumble 3 5
Use Magic Device 4 24
Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Heightening I
...hm. Can Ranger Devotion 1 be taken simultaneously with the Bard Song Magic line, and do they stack?
Well.
Going drow seems to ... mostly, lose the healing amp, and gain a point more in a few saves and skills?
And the spell resistance and +2 save against enchantments, right...
Oh, and I suppose starting the human version with less CHA would have been possible although slightly annoying for the first couple of bard levels, but here it just won't go any lower... hm, that'd have been the difference in the 1 point of will save...
Not sure if it's in the end any better than the human version, or worse? Help?
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 226
Spell Points: 510
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 21
Will: 10
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 10 12
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 11
Bluff 4 5
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 0 1
Disable Device 6 25
Haggle 4 5
Heal 0 0
Hide 4 6
Intimidate 0 5
Jump 7 10
Listen 1 3
Move Silently 4 6
Open Lock 7 9
Perform n/a 24
Repair 2 2
Search 6 30
Spot 4 28
Swim 3 5
Tumble 4 6
Use Magic Device 4 24
Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Elven Perception II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
if you have the option to roll 32 point builds (AKA champion status) then I would go with human. (extra feat and an extra skill point each level, heal amp and human versatility, if u can squeeze them in) if you don't have 32 point builds, then take the drow. they automatically give you 32 build points, and you'll need them for making a twf trapping bard.
for feats on a human I would go with: toughness, PA, weapon focus, twf + improved twf + greater twf, improved critical, and extend or empower healing or magical training, depending on your playstyle.
on a drow I would drop the magical feat, or alternatively add a fighter splash for extra feats.
khopesh IS good, but in my opinion not good enough to warrant such a sacrifice on a bard build. your toon is a support character, and as such you'll never come close to the damage of the pure melees, regardless of your weapon of choice.
I prefer to use a high crit profile weapon that gives a useful on-crit effect, such as a rad2 greensteel rapier or sacrificial daggers, for example.
hope this helps.
if you have the option to roll 32 point builds (AKA champion status) then I would go with human. (extra feat and an extra skill point each level, heal amp and human versatility, if u can squeeze them in) if you don't have 32 point builds, then take the drow. they automatically give you 32 build points, and you'll need them for making a twf trapping bard.
Not going to have 32 pt builds in a while, none of my toons are past 1000 favor yet.
But it didn't seem to me like drow actually would help that much in this case...?
If I start with 8 CHA, things will be annoying until I get at least a +3 CHA item, yes... but in that case the human version will end up at a net of 1 less str and 1 less reflex save at level 20, and will have heal amp and versatility. And that extra feat.
for feats on a human I would go with: toughness, PA, weapon focus, twf + improved twf + greater twf, improved critical, and extend or empower healing or magical training, depending on your playstyle.
on a drow I would drop the magical feat, or alternatively add a fighter splash for extra feats.
Um. I was already planning on taking 2 ranger for TWF+ranged help in the TWF case. Can't add a fourth class.
(Now, THF trapping bard is another thing altogether... and seems to take a hit in reflex saves even if I pump up int a bit and fit in insightful reflexes. Should I still go that way?)
I suppose I really should drop OTWF for imp crit, though. That gets me both extend AND emp heal on a str-based highish-dex human. (Selected feats in planned order, latest version: toughness, PA, WF slash, FE undead, extend, emp heal, IC slash, ITWF, GTWF. Also gets rapid shot and bow strength. Although I wonder if the leveling sequence isn't quite optimal in that plan...)
khopesh IS good, but in my opinion not good enough to warrant such a sacrifice on a bard build. your toon is a support character, and as such you'll never come close to the damage of the pure melees, regardless of your weapon of choice.
I prefer to use a high crit profile weapon that gives a useful on-crit effect, such as a rad2 greensteel rapier or sacrificial daggers, for example.
...and on-crit effects really need the imp crit feat anyway, right.
unbongwah
06-16-2013, 07:33 PM
The short version: I would dump CHA for more CON; ftr 2 > rgr 2 to a TWF build unless you're going for Manyshot, in which case the extra feat from rgr is better, or you really want rgr Devotion I (yes, it will stack w/bard Song Magic); drop OTWF for Imp Crit.
(Now, THF trapping bard is another thing altogether... and seems to take a hit in reflex saves even if I pump up int a bit and fit in insightful reflexes. Should I still go that way?)
Hm.
I did play with that in the planner. Should I go the ITHF/GTHF way, or, since I already need PA for warchanter, Cleave/GC? Seems like I could (assuming I ever get into epic levels) easily qualify for Overwhelming Critical with a +2 tome in the latter case...
Like, about so:
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 206
Spell Points: 425
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 15
Will: 11
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 10 10
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 0 0
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 0
Heal 0 0
Hide 0 0
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 3 5
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 2 2
Spot 0 0
Swim 3 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Level 2 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 5 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Level 7 (Bard)
Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Level 10 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Level 11 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 13 (Bard)
Level 14 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Level 17 (Bard)
Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Level 19 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
But, should I reduce DEX and CHA further and put that into, say, INT or WIS for saves? Assuming I end up going this way...
The short version: I would dump CHA for more CON; ftr 2 > rgr 2 to a TWF build unless you're going for Manyshot, in which case the extra feat from rgr is better, or you really want rgr Devotion I (yes, it will stack w/bard Song Magic); drop OTWF for Imp Crit.
Yes, well. One of the things my existing warchanter is bad at, is ranged combat - if I could take both bow strength and TWF with just 2 levels of fighter, I would, and gladly.
The ranger way, dropping extend (at higher levels when things last long enough without it too, if not right away) for point blank shot would make it possible to take manyshot at 21 or 24... if I ever get there. Or as an alternative to ITWF/GTWF.
So... something like this, now?
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 246
Spell Points: 465
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 20
Will: 9
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 11
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 10
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device 5 24
Haggle 3 4
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 5
Intimidate -1 4
Jump 7 10
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 3 5
Open Lock 6 8
Perform n/a 23
Repair 1 1
Search 5 25
Spot 3 23
Swim 3 5
Tumble 3 5
Use Magic Device 3 23
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Level 2 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 5 (Bard)
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Level 7 (Bard)
Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Level 11 (Bard)
Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Level 13 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Level 14 (Bard)
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Level 17 (Bard)
Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
So... something like this, now?
looks good. I love the idea of having manyshot and gtwf on a trapping bard :D might have to try it myself sometime
and don't forget to account for inspire excellence in your epic feats ;) though even with manyshot at 21 or 24, you should have no problem slotting inspire excellence as well.
keep in mind though that 8 stating cha would mean you would need a +6 item and a +2 tome (or any other +8 total combo) to be able to cast level 6 bard spells.
also, this means you won't have a high enough cha for casting for at least a few levels early on.
but down the line you'll have a very fun bard to play, and you'll have free +2 tome coming your way at the 1750 favor mark, so no worries
keep in mind though that 8 stating cha would mean you would need a +6 item and a +2 tome (or any other +8 total combo) to be able to cast level 6 bard spells.
also, this means you won't have a high enough cha for casting for at least a few levels early on.
...I plan on eventually getting at least 3 CHA from enhancements, for that net +8. Human could get 4 but Bard Cha III is expensive.
And that's also why those two martial levels are both so early - more time to find a +cha item.
Yep, doesn't look like I'll have to wait for 32 pt builds (or a TR) to do this. Remains to be seen if it'll be effective, but...
but down the line you'll have a very fun bard to play, and you'll have free +2 tome coming your way at the 1750 favor mark, so no worries
Too bad I didn't think of this back when the birthday box thing was still going.
... Hey, is that 1750 just first per server, or any toon that reaches 1750 favor? Because this won't be my first toon on whichever server I put it on.
Soulfurnace
06-17-2013, 03:55 AM
... Hey, is that 1750 just first per server, or any toon that reaches 1750 favor? Because this won't be my first toon on whichever server I put it on.
Every toon gets it, last I checked.
My main has gotten it 5 times.. Why can't I trade it for tp? :(
RightToRemainStupid
06-17-2013, 05:06 AM
There were a few posts on the forums over the past couple of weeks indicating that Bard enhancements might be bugged. Can anyone confirm whether this bug exists and is still in effect? I don't want to reset the enhancements on my Bard until I know for sure.
unbongwah
06-17-2013, 09:31 AM
One of the things my existing warchanter is bad at, is ranged combat - if I could take both bow strength and TWF with just 2 levels of fighter, I would, and gladly.
So, maybe something like this?
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 25 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 359
Spell Points: 805
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 9
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 25)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8
Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 5 (Bard)
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Level 7 (Ranger)
Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Manyshot
Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10 (Bard)
Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Level 13 (Bard)
Level 14 (Bard)
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 17 (Bard)
Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Level 19 (Bard)
Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Level 21 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Inspire Excellence
Level 22 (Bard)
Level 23 (Bard)
Level 24 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Level 25 (Bard)
The concept was a self-sufficient melee bard who also has the burst DPS from Manyshot+Imbues. The advantage of going human instead is an extra feat (2 if you count dropping WF:R); the drawback would be losing AA.
So, maybe something like this?
Level 25 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard \ 5 Epic)
.......
The concept was a self-sufficient melee bard who also has the burst DPS from Manyshot+Imbues. The advantage of going human instead is an extra feat (2 if you count dropping WF:R); the drawback would be losing AA.
Well, sort of but not exactly - I was going for self-sufficient bard with evasion and traps, not completely helpless in either melee or ranged.
The question was, is this doable well enough to be worth it as 28pt f2p first life, or at most with drow unlocked... and it looks like I'll at least try.
Had one of my older toons buy a ML5 +3 CHA item from the AH already.
...I plan on eventually getting at least 3 CHA from enhancements, for that net +8. Human could get 4 but Bard Cha III is expensive.
I doubt you'll have the enhancement points for cha III, as you'll want to have the full devotion line, the full lingering song, attack bonus, damage bonus, courage bonus (for warchanter pre-req), prestiege and human versatility and heal amp.... your enhancement points would be stretched too thin as it is.
you could however manage an easy +2 (+1 from human for 2ap, +1 from bard for another 2ap), that and the +6 item should cover your needs until you land a +2 tome and can respec.
... Hey, is that 1750 just first per server, or any toon that reaches 1750 favor? Because this won't be my first toon on whichever server I put it on.
any toon that reaches 1750 gets to pick one as a reward, no worries :)
unbongwah
06-17-2013, 01:06 PM
Well, sort of but not exactly - I was going for self-sufficient bard with evasion and traps, not completely helpless in either melee or ranged.
The question was, is this doable well enough to be worth it as 28pt f2p first life, or at most with drow unlocked... and it looks like I'll at least try.
Okay, then perhaps something more like this:
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 266
Spell Points: 425
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 19
Will: 10
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10
Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Level 2 (Ranger)
Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 5 (Bard)
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 7 (Bard)
Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
Level 10 (Bard)
Level 11 (Bard)
Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 13 (Bard)
Level 14 (Bard)
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 17 (Bard)
Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 19 (Bard)
Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
Same concept & basic layout as yours, but I squeezed in Manyshot a lot sooner. Until lvl 12 she uses 2H weapons; Carnifex is a good choice if you have one. I dropped the metamagics due to feat shortage, but you have a feat slot to spare at lvl 24; 21 feat should be Inspire Excellence, IMHO.
I'm a bit lukewarm on WCs these days, particularly on a rog splash: Ironskin Chant ceases to be much use past mid-teen levels (by that point seems like everyone has better sources of DR); and one of the perks of WC is med armor w/out ASF, but that's useless to an Evasion toon. So one option for late-game would be to swap WF:S for Maximize and switch to Spellsinger; this may be better in the long run if you really want a self-healing toon, since you'll get SS Vigor for free SPs (in which case I'd grab Quicken as the other epic feat).
I doubt you'll have the enhancement points for cha III, as you'll want to have the full devotion line, the full lingering song, attack bonus, damage bonus, courage bonus (for warchanter pre-req), prestiege and human versatility and heal amp.... your enhancement points would be stretched too thin as it is.
you could however manage an easy +2 (+1 from human for 2ap, +1 from bard for another 2ap), that and the +6 item should cover your needs until you land a +2 tome and can respec.
Well, in the very first post in this thread, I included an enhancement breakdown that included Bard Cha II and Human Adaptability Cha, for net 3 from enhancements. Not likely to spend 6 AP for Bard Cha III.
The question is, did I accidentally sacrifice something essential there?
Okay, then perhaps something more like this:
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 266
Spell Points: 425
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 19
Will: 10
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10
Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
Same concept & basic layout as yours, but I squeezed in Manyshot a lot sooner. Until lvl 12 she uses 2H weapons; Carnifex is a good choice if you have one. I dropped the metamagics due to feat shortage, but you have a feat slot to spare at lvl 24; 21 feat should be Inspire Excellence, IMHO.
Well, yes, that could be better than mine. But I don't think I can rely on getting a +2 dex tome that soon. Even a +1 tome is likely to require help from the other toon, but should be doable, so putting the level 8 point into dex probably and...
Like I said, too bad that I didn't think to do this back when the birthday box thing was still on...
I'm a bit lukewarm on WCs these days, particularly on a rog splash: Ironskin Chant ceases to be much use past mid-teen levels (by that point seems like everyone has better sources of DR); and one of the perks of WC is med armor w/out ASF, but that's useless to an Evasion toon. So one option for late-game would be to swap WF:S for Maximize and switch to Spellsinger; this may be better in the long run if you really want a self-healing toon, since you'll get SS Vigor for free SPs (in which case I'd grab Quicken as the other epic feat).
Yes, switching to Spellsinger II at 12 bard does look like a pretty good option in this case.
Have to think a bit more about this still...
Well, in the very first post in this thread, I included an enhancement breakdown that included Bard Cha II and Human Adaptability Cha, for net 3 from enhancements. Not likely to spend 6 AP for Bard Cha III.
The question is, did I accidentally sacrifice something essential there?
lets go over your enhancements then :)
enhancements I feel can be dropped:
Bard Charisma II (4 ap) (you only need +8 in total, with +6 items being a common thing, +2 from enhancements is enough)
Improved Search I (you can use focusing chant to increase your skills by one, and being a bard you'll always have GH handy. as you'll see we'll compensate for this with a better skill boost from human versatility)
Improved Spot I (it's a wisdom based skill, you've dropped wisdom... I fail to see how a +1 would make a significant difference here)
Bard Extra Song I (you should have more songs than you'd know what to do with at later levels)
Bard Energy of the Music II (2 ap) (early on, take it if u feel the need to. at later levels you should have an sp item and cha item equipped, and 20 sp would make very little difference)
Bard Lyric of Song I
Bard Lyric of Song II
Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
warchanters are spot healers, and as such investing in anything beyond the plain positive power enhancements is a waste in my opinion. most of your time and sp should not be spent on healing, and the points you're spending here for a small chance at critical heals can be better spent elsewhere.
enhancement you should definitely drop:
Bard Wand Heightening I
as the DCs on wands are too low to matter anyway, making this a wasted point
dropping all of the above would free up 14 points, which is a sizable chunk
enhancements I feel you should aspire to add:
Human versatility 3 & 4 (7 ap total)
Bard Inspired Attack III (6 ap)
Bard Lingering Song 4 (4 ap)
so we have 14 points freed up, and 17 points worth of a wish list... now you see why I wrote earlier that your enhancement points would be stretched too thin as it is :)
I would suggest taking:
1. Bard Lingering Song 4
2. Bard Inspired Attack III
3. Human versatility 3
totaling in 13 points, leaving you 1 to re-spend.
bards are always tight for enhancements, this one's no different ... hope this helps
RightToRemainStupid
06-18-2013, 12:13 AM
You may want to check if Bard enhancements are still bugged before proceeding with this idea.
lets go over your enhancements then :)
enhancements I feel can be dropped:
Bard Charisma II (4 ap) (you only need +8 in total, with +6 items being a common thing, +2 from enhancements is enough)
Possibly. I have been known to get unlucky with such gear needs occasionally, though.
Improved Search I (you can use focusing chant to increase your skills by one, and being a bard you'll always have GH handy. as you'll see we'll compensate for this with a better skill boost from human versatility)
Improved Spot I (it's a wisdom based skill, you've dropped wisdom... I fail to see how a +1 would make a significant difference here)
I was actually considering upping wis just to get more spot. I can't rely on knowing in advance where the traps will be, and it does help with target acquisition while doing ranged too - having the targets disappear when the focusing chant expires is annoying (BTDT).
Search is for the trap role as well.
I've responded to guild chat calls for help into quests with base above my level on elite before. It just isn't possible to have too much + to trapping skills, IMO.
Just wish it was possible to inspire competence on yourself, too...
Bard Extra Song I (you should have more songs than you'd know what to do with at later levels)
Bard Energy of the Music II (2 ap) (early on, take it if u feel the need to. at later levels you should have an sp item and cha item equipped, and 20 sp would make very little difference)
Could be. My existing warchanter still keeps running low on songs (12) in longer quests though.
And you can do much with 20 sp sometimes... but, possible.
Bard Lyric of Song I
Bard Lyric of Song II
Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
warchanters are spot healers, and as such investing in anything beyond the plain positive power enhancements is a waste in my opinion. most of your time and sp should not be spent on healing, and the points you're spending here for a small chance at critical heals can be better spent elsewhere.
Right... I was thinking more about resistant undead at that point, but I agree that dropping those does make sense.
enhancement you should definitely drop:
Bard Wand Heightening I
as the DCs on wands are too low to matter anyway, making this a wasted point
Hm, I thought it might have been useful. My existing warchanter pulled the Wand of Blasting the other day and not everyone gets their saves against it... the problem is getting UMD high enough to use it successfully.
Possibly have it for a while if I happen to pull good wands this time, but even if so, get rid of it later, I suppose.
dropping all of the above would free up 14 points, which is a sizable chunk
enhancements I feel you should aspire to add:
Human versatility 3 & 4 (7 ap total)
Bard Inspired Attack III (6 ap)
Bard Lingering Song 4 (4 ap)
so we have 14 points freed up, and 17 points worth of a wish list... now you see why I wrote earlier that your enhancement points would be stretched too thin as it is :)
I would suggest taking:
1. Bard Lingering Song 4
2. Bard Inspired Attack III
3. Human versatility 3
totaling in 13 points, leaving you 1 to re-spend.
bards are always tight for enhancements, this one's no different ... hope this helps
Right... have to do up a new version in the planner, at least... did this thing know how to handle enhancement or even feat respecs, again...?
You may want to check if Bard enhancements are still bugged before proceeding with this idea.
Well. My ftr1/barb1/bard10 warchanter is not having any significant problems with that any more, after resetting enhancements once after the last patch. Besides, it's not like bard would be the only class where enhancements look funny nowadays.
Okay, then perhaps something more like this:
(Character Planner Export)
Same concept & basic layout as yours, but I squeezed in Manyshot a lot sooner. Until lvl 12 she uses 2H weapons; Carnifex is a good choice if you have one. I dropped the metamagics due to feat shortage, but you have a feat slot to spare at lvl 24; 21 feat should be Inspire Excellence, IMHO.
I'm a bit lukewarm on WCs these days, particularly on a rog splash: Ironskin Chant ceases to be much use past mid-teen levels (by that point seems like everyone has better sources of DR); and one of the perks of WC is med armor w/out ASF, but that's useless to an Evasion toon. So one option for late-game would be to swap WF:S for Maximize and switch to Spellsinger; this may be better in the long run if you really want a self-healing toon, since you'll get SS Vigor for free SPs (in which case I'd grab Quicken as the other epic feat).
Well, yes, that could be better than mine. But I don't think I can rely on getting a +2 dex tome that soon. Even a +1 tome is likely to require help from the other toon, but should be doable, so putting the level 8 point into dex probably and...
Like I said, too bad that I didn't think to do this back when the birthday box thing was still on...
Yes, switching to Spellsinger II at 12 bard does look like a pretty good option in this case.
So, latest version of my plan, with a few enhancement and one feat respec included... slightly pessimistic in that I only assumed a +1 tome by level 8 and thus put that ability point into dex, and only assumed a +5 cha item (but also a +1 tome there).
Sure, in the optimal case, I'd get +2 dex AND int tomes by 7... well, maybe a LR if/when I ever get those.
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 226
Spell Points: 685
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 19
Will: 9
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 11
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 16
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 10
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 2 10
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device 5 24
Haggle 2 3
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 7 11
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 6 8
Open Lock 6 7
Perform n/a 23
Repair 1 1
Search 5 25
Spot 3 23
Swim 3 5
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 3 27
{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Charismatic +3 Cloak \par Charismatic +5 Ring \par \par Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+6)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement Reset
Feat Swap
Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement Reset
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Hm, Spellsinger does have slightly annoying prerequisites for this build too. I wonder...
(And the planner doesn't seem to handle respecs gracefully, I'm not sure how readable that was. And there's something up with the formatting for the equipment section...)
So, latest version of my plan, with a few enhancement and one feat respec included... slightly pessimistic in that I only assumed a +1 tome by level 8 and thus put that ability point into dex, and only assumed a +5 cha item (but also a +1 tome there).
Sure, in the optimal case, I'd get +2 dex AND int tomes by 7... well, maybe a LR if/when I ever get those.
Character has been created on Orien, name Oleppo. Let's see how this works.
(So if someone happens to have a spare +2 dex tome that they're willing to donate... well, I'm not likely to turn it down.)
RightToRemainStupid
06-21-2013, 03:58 AM
Well. My ftr1/barb1/bard10 warchanter is not having any significant problems with that any more, after resetting enhancements once after the last patch. Besides, it's not like bard would be the only class where enhancements look funny nowadays.
No there was a bug after a recent patch or update where people could no longer select the Warchanter II enhancements from the tree, despite qualifying for them. You might want to look into whether that was fixed before planning a Warchanter II build.
No there was a bug after a recent patch or update where people could no longer select the Warchanter II enhancements from the tree, despite qualifying for them. You might want to look into whether that was fixed before planning a Warchanter II build.
Oh well. In the last version of the build I'm not taking Warchanter II anyway, switching to Spellsinger II at 12 bard instead.
(And I don't actually expect to make it that far before the next update, in any case.)
Looks like I probably won't reach even level 6 before the update hits. Oh well.
Anyone know if the new Skaldic Rage is of the barbarian-style rage that prevents spellcasting, or the kind that does allow casting? (edit, does allow, excellent...)
But, anyway, what enhancements should I try to fit in, and should I change the plan to 15/3/2 (and 3 of which, ranger or rogue) ? Or even more...? Well, at least 15 bard and trap skills in any case, but...
Let's see... Both trees' tier 5 abilities require 12 cha, probably still counting base+levelups+tomes? That could be a problem.
Oh well, dumping str would pretty much require 3 ranger I guess... I'd really prefer to have l6 spells though...
At worst I'll have to reroll as drow, I guess. Well, that -1 feat shouldn't be as much of a problem any more at least.
Duh, T5 enhs require Character level 12, not Charisma 12, eh?
...yeah, this could still work. And more leeway in the feat selection too, the level 6 feat that was reserved for the prerequisites and maybe Toughness too... hm.
Bards are naturally a bit squishy, should I keep Toughness or switch it to something else?
Could take Emp Heal and Extend in those two feat slots, I think.
Or something like Cleave... yeah, right...
...yeah, this could still work. And more leeway in the feat selection too, the level 6 feat that was reserved for the prerequisites and maybe Toughness too... hm.
Bards are naturally a bit squishy, should I keep Toughness or switch it to something else?
Could take Emp Heal and Extend in those two feat slots, I think.
Or something like Cleave... yeah, right...
Well. Currently at level 9 and have Cleave instead of Toughness in the L3 feat slot and Extend in the L6... will swap the L6 one out later anyway. For either Great Cleave (to qualify for Overwhelming Critical eventually/sooner), Emp Heal, or maybe Quicken... not sure yet.
Also, there's a more comprehensive work by unbongwah by now anyway, at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431054-Revisiting-Bardchers-%28U20%29 ... yeah, I do think I'll be going with 3 levels of Ranger myself too.
Current plan is to take the third Ranger level at 15. As in, after DDoor.
Also, sort of thinking about feat order... do I take Improved Critical at 18 and GTWF at 15, or the other way round?
And same thing with 21/24, do I take Overwhelming Critical or Inspire Excellence first?
(Hm. Have to remember to swap Extend for Great Cleave before then... probably a lot sooner actually...)
No idea what enhancements would be optimal, I'm told there are issues with some things not stacking between EDs, feats and (bard) enhancements... Howl of the North being one of these maybe? Anyone have pointers to where these might have been discussed?
(I should have both +0 and +20 hearts still in the bank anyway... might use the +0 one after I hit 1750 favor if this thing's still fun to play at that point...)
Looks like I'll be even more AP-starved after U22...
Given that I've already used two feat slots for TWF feats, I can't get anything like optimal results from the Swashbuckler tree in any case without a LR.
Oh well, I guess I'll keep the old setup up till 1750 favor so I can do a 32-point version at that time.
I wonder... according to what's in the Wiki currently, Coup de Grace doesn't require being in the stance and has a ranged version. That'll be extra fun when in Shiradi. I suppose I should try to fit in Improved Precise Shot somehow for a (Whistler/Pin)/CdG Manyshot combo... I don't think I'll be going for 4 Ranger for the paralyzing arrows, so I guess I'll have to be on the lookout for a paralyzing longbow.
Hey... which of the greensteel effects count for that, anyway? Air guard causes knockdown so that at least, but... do Freezing Ice or Earthgrab count? Surely at least the Elemental Longbow of Earth's (Greater) Stone Prison should...
Of course I could just do melee and farm up an Envenomed Blade for each hand.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.