Attention, all Ye noobs, newbs & newbies: A moment of your time, please...

[PermaBanned]

Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm. We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

So I thought I'ld try asking all y'all directly.
While I wish I could promise no one will come here and say something callous or derogatory in response to anything you have to say on the matter, the simple truth is I can't. However, I can be fairly certain that should someone do so, you'll likely get the satisfaction of seeing someone else tell 'em where to stick the unneeded/unhelpful commentary ;)

So please, sound off and tell us "vets" what you new folk actually are: looking for, thinking about and wanting to find when it comes to lfms in general & new (to you) quests in particular.

Thanx in advance :)

[Archangel_666]

Nice post, and I commend you for the way you wrote it, but I'm afraid you're going to run into the same problem people always run into when asking these sorts of questions.

The people you are addressing do not visit the Forums.

[PermaBanned]

Nice post... The people you are addressing do not visit the Forums.
Thanx :)

Indeed, I did consider my target audience may only have a small fraction of representatives hanging around, especially given our forums aren't currently user friendly when it comes to posting/replying :(

That said, I figured it never hurts to ask...

[seebs]

FWIW, I'm not really "new", but I only play occasionally and have no high level characters. My answers: I basically always solo because I often find people a little overwhelming to deal with. So if I'm playing to relax and spin down, I'm probably not grouping...

[auntjobiska]

Again, not really new, but I would have to say that I made the mistake of reading the forums fairly early on in my DDO experience. It totally put me off grouping with the constant complaining about what this noob/newb did or what that one didn't do that he should have or how you can't be in my groups unless you have X thingy or Y whatsit. I did not want to lay myself open to abuse for not knowing something or not having something or making a mistake. So now I mostly group with people in the guild or solo with a hire. I think the last time I grouped with strangers was at Mabar in the slayer area and the enforced grouping for the dragon instances.

I do look at the grouping panel every time I am on. I look to see if there are any quests that I want to do with the character that I have on. If there are, then I look at the levels of the people already joined - I would rather be towards the higher end of the range than at the bottom. Then I look at the comments. If it says IP, or elite for BB, or BYOH or Know it, or solo this that or the other, then I look elsewhere. The reason being that to me that sort of comment seems unfriendly and indicative of a group that has a specific way they want to play and don't want someone who might spoil it for them.

I have only once put up my own LFM and that was at Mabar with a 'come and go as you please' message. I am not a leader. I don't know enough about the quests to be a leader and tell people what they should do or where to go. I could put up an LFM that says 'need guide' but again, forum experience has put me off doing that too.

I don't think I have ever seen an LFM that has as its comment 'beginners welcome', or 'come learn this quest' or 'none of us have done this, lets explore'. Those are the sort of LFMs that I would join.

AJ

[Thunderstryk]

Was there not a day when OP could be considered a noob? Does OP not remember or does OP willfully forget?

Ask yourself.

Furthermore, before excluding others, ask yourself if it's out of necessity or luxury.

[xXbikergirlXx]

Started playing last November, I play solo most of time(probably 95%+) because I find it very difficult to keep up in groups and therefore start to panic and forget to keep my health up leading to death!! I have 4 toons presently at lvl21, lvl16, lvl8 and lvl3. I really want to join groups but due to a couple of very negative experiences very rarely do. I have started the last two toons with the intention to brave it out and join some groups but I think my mistake may be always trying something new....i.e Cleric, Paladin, Fighter and Wizard....so although I now know the low lvl quests really well, each time I am learning new playing styles. On the bright side my knowledge of Hires is excellent!! Never done a raid....maybe one day. I like to take things slow and poke my nose into every nook and cranny this doesn't seem to fit most Lfm's and I don't understand the mechanics of setting up my own groups due to never having done it.....I have gone through the motions several times but always chicken out before that final click to post. Sounds a bit sad I know but I have to add I really enjoy playing DDO and I will continue to play even if it is only solo

[TheNameIwasntB4]

Participation was higher, but the new forums caused some players to quit coming to the new forums due to bugginess. I assume the rate will increase over time, if the player base stays as it is or increases.
-------------------

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

I remember being a new player. I never started one LFM as I had no clue on the game.
I soloed all quests or I was blind invited(since I was a cleric). When I was blind invited I explained I
was new to the game, 90% of the people were nice when I did this. From me not
posting LFMs, learning to do a quest my way, I became a soloist.

---------------------------

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

I don't post LFMs because I cannot stand waiting to fill. If I am on to play, I want to play. Not stand around.
If I am standing around, I can logoff. I have posted on the forums that I will be running a particular crappy(in my mind)
quest, and at a certain time, I will put up an LFM so people can save their time by me running the quest and then
completing it after they enter. I also only leave the LFM up for 5 minutes at most when I do this.

I will join LFMs on quests that a) I need for favor, I never join a quest for XP b) I know I have a hard time soloing the quest and it will be faster in a group c) quests I don't like to run but
if some other zany person is willing to run it and I am in the mood to goof around I just might be able to get the quest completed and get favor out of it. Faithful Departed comes to mind.

---------------------------

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

Exciting. But a quest I have never done before, I usually like to do solo so I can figure it out and know what
is ahead. My first time I go SLOW. I do the entire thing. All nooks and crannies. A new quest I give my myself a three hour limit.
Once I am comfortable in that I know it I might join someone else's LFM when on other servers that are not my main server.
Still, I won't put up one LFM for high level quests as I would rather solo and not wait for people to join.

---------------------------

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

Figure it out on my own. In the past, I have joined LFMs and no one knew anything. Then you would have party wipes and people would drop. So it was a waste of time. Once I have my way I am always
willing to learn other knowledgable people's way on how to do a quest.

---------------------------

I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm.
We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

I don't take part in the name calling. What is the point of that? My ego is not so fragile that I worry about that. I play my way and others play their way. I understand that and if my way is slower
as compared to others way, so be it.

[xXbikergirlXx]

Obviously as previously stated I play Solo but I love entering new quests and would always want to try on my own first. Quests that require extra players I take the requisite number of hires. I am not ashamed to admit with my higher lvl toons I often check the wiki to assess what might be ahead although I must say that can be detrimental as often things sound harder than they actually are!! No-one likes making a fool of themselves......but I think my report card might read 'Doesn't mix easily, should try harder'!!

[PermaBanned]

Was there not a day when OP could be considered a noob? Does OP not remember or does OP willfully forget?

Ask yourself.
OP (that's me!) was absolutely a noob. Not a newb, a NOOB. 2 months after the game went f2p, I joined. This is my first mmo even. My first toon was a rogue. Had this been pen & paper D&D, it would've been an outstanding rogue. As it turns out, there are some key differences between this game and p&p. Lol although I must say, Juduss (the rogue) certainly stood out. I blew an amazing # of trap boxes in that first life. Who knew Korthos gear was insufficient for Gweylands stand? Everyone else in the party, as it turned out. Rogues get so many skill points, why bother investing much in intelligence? Because the folks who are looking for a rogue to run Xorian Cypher expect you to get the int runes... And get REALLY cranky when you blow a box or 5 on those chests.

Yes, once upon a time, I too was a noob.

Furthermore, before excluding others, ask yourself if it's out of necessity or luxury.

What about my op leads you to believe I'm exclusionary?
However yes, I have put up "exclusionary" lfms. I don't always, but sometimes I do. It's never of necessity, always for luxury. Sometimes I come home from work, and having had a long day, just want to chillax and knock out a few quick levels on my TR. So I check the patron tab, see what quests I have left to do at that level, make a list and put up an IP lfm. If I'm on a fighter, rogue, wiz etc life I often list it as "maybe byoh." I'm bringing my own, don't have the resources to play party healer, and don't feel like waiting for one. If someone joins who does feel like playing party healer, I adjust the lfm accordingly. When I'm on a cleric, favored soul or even a bard life, I don't list as byoh. If I can heal a party, I do. My main TR project ATM is named "Myhealer." I am on a favored soul life -on Thelanis- and you will not see me post a byoh lfm this life, or the next two fs lives for that matter. And btw, my final life will be cleric, and I pug almost exclusively in spite of belonging to a 92 level guild and being in a couple good channels. Just before making this post, the last quest I ran was Gwaylands Stand. It was listed as ip because I don't like waiting for groups to fill. I received a tell asking me what "IP" meant. I replied with the definition, and then sent an invite.

So now you hopefully know all you need to about who is posting this questionnaire. As to why I posted it, well I'm genuinely curious. After the above mentioned "oops" moments, I took it upon myself to learn the game. I noticed quickly that "need guide" lfms took for ever to fill, so I simply posted lfms with no commentary. I was not a leader. When people joined I said straight away that I was new to the quest and learning as I went. Some people stayed, others left. In the past few years, my knowledge of the game has of course grown. Yet here in the forums I have often participated in discussions about various kinds of lfms, and who I thought should or should not join them. The most recent being the "wiz-king: solo a tower" thread. A variety of statements made there, all made by "vets"(as far as I know, anyway) got me to wondering what the new players' actual opinions are...

So I'm asking.

[xXbikergirlXx]

I have solo-ed Wiz-king(well with one hire) on heroic normal and hard but I could not do it on epic at level(have read wiz-king thread) and would not even consider joining a lfm that said 'solo a tower' . My lvl21 cleric can heal with the best of them but because I run on my own, my normal(for me) spell selection would probably not suit a group looking for a 'proper' healer as I carry a lot of offensive spells thus reducing mass buffs etc. Therefore to participate in high level groups I would require advice on which spells to carry and I have found that because I'm lvl21 people think this is something I should already know and lose patience easily. Also something not mentioned so far is abreviations, I often look at lfm's and think well if I don't know what it means it's probably not for me! Same with the forums I am still learning the DDO lingo and I am always grateful when some-one puts the full meaning in brackets. Should probably mention this is also my first venture into online gaming and that I am definitely old enough to know better!! 'Bikergirl' is infact a distant memory!!

[PermaBanned]

I would have to say that I made the mistake of reading the forums fairly early on in my DDO experience. It totally put me off grouping...I did not want to lay myself open to abuse for not knowing something or not having something or making a mistake.
I find this both unfortunate and quite understandable. It can get quite rough landing in the "wrong" party (which is in it's self a subjective term relative to each individual).

If it says IP, or elite for BB, or BYOH or Know it, or solo this that or the other, then I look elsewhere. The reason being that to me that sort of comment seems unfriendly and indicative of a group that has a specific way they want to play and don't want someone who might spoil it for them.
I can see why for everything from byoh and the rest after that, but I'm kind of surprised that even IP or elite for BB is a turn off. I don't mention the BB in my lfms, I just set the level range accordingly. However I do occasionally get newer players joining IP lfms, who then ask where the quest is. While I freely admit (here in the forums - not in party chat) I get annoyed by it, I just tell them where it is, toss out a share, and tell them how far in I am. It honestly never occurred to me that IP could be as off putting as byoh, know it, etc...

I don't think I have ever seen an LFM that has as its comment 'beginners welcome', or 'come learn this quest' or 'none of us have done this, lets explore'. Those are the sort of LFMs that I would join.
Mind if I ask; as these are the kind of lfms you would like to join, why are you not starting some with those very comments? I'm not condemning, just curious :)

[PermaBanned]

Started playing last November
Welcome!

I really want to join groups but due to a couple of very negative experiences very rarely do.
Please don't let a few jerks drive you out of pugging. My best suggestion would be to immediately upon joining, start chatting up whoever's already there. If they sound like a bunch of AHoles, then no explanation needed just leave group. On the other hand, if they just sound like they're planning to blast through a quest that they all know, say something like "sorry, this doesn't sound like the group for me." If they'll ask why before you drop out, you can tell them (for example) "sounds like you guys want a more experienced (wiz/cleric/whatever)." If they're open to helping a new player they'll say so, if not then everyone will be happier that you recognized this and chose to move on. Many "vets" I know are more than happy to help a new player in a lot of ways... If they know ahead of time the person in question is a new player.
With the circles I usually run in, if we get a new rogue for instance, when one of us gets a good search or disable item, we'll say "hay biker, can you use this?" Or if they're just new to the quest then we know to tell them what we want or expect them to do/not do. If I don't know there's a new player in the party, I'll conduct myself & my group as though everyone knows what's going on.
What frustrates me is when a new player joins, says nothing about being new, and promptly runs off somewhere and dies, or worse drags unanticipated agro from wherever they went back to the party. It's hard to help a new player when you don't know they're new until it's too late.

Lastly, since you've tinkered with the lfm panel, and like to solo with a hire anyway, I would like to suggest you try the "IP" approach to lfm listing. Step into the quest, pop out the hire & do your thing. If someone joins, just be honest. "Hey, I'm new & just checking out everything as I go. Please don't Zerg ahead, I'm taking it slow to figure it out." 9/10 times they either join you in the "flower sniffing" or drop group immediately, glad you gave them the heads up. On that last 1/10, they'll come in anyway and "do you the favor" of finishing the quest lickity-split. Those are the people who really need you to know how awesome they are, but in my experience they're the exception rather than the rule ;)
I suggest this because while I do solo from time to time(some quests I just prefer to solo) I came to the mmo environment so I could have social interaction while playing a game I enjoy. Since that's what I like, I assume at least some other people do too. If that's not you, feel free to ignore this advice ;)

[auntjobiska]

Mind if I ask; as these are the kind of lfms you would like to join, why are you not starting some with those very comments? I'm not condemning, just curious :)

You are right, I should try it, but it is a daunting prospect.

AJ

[~Ellis_Dee]

Back when I was a new player, I made it a point of emphasis to always run "new" (to me) quests solo in order to learn them. I've only ever learned raids from others. (Except ADQ, which I learned solo.)

To this day the quests I know the least well are the ones that tend to not be soloed. (Xorian Cipher, that necro1 quest with the 4 plates, etc...) because I don't learn anything by running behind people.

Sort of like how if I drive somewhere I'll remember the way, but if I'm a passenger I'm unlikely to remember.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Again, not really new, but I would have to say that I made the mistake of reading the forums fairly early on in my DDO experience. It totally put me off grouping with the constant complaining about what this noob/newb did or what that one didn't do that he should have or how you can't be in my groups unless you have X thingy or Y whatsit. I did not want to lay myself open to abuse for not knowing something or not having something or making a mistake. So now I mostly group with people in the guild or solo with a hire. I think the last time I grouped with strangers was at Mabar in the slayer area and the enforced grouping for the dragon instances.

I do look at the grouping panel every time I am on. I look to see if there are any quests that I want to do with the character that I have on. If there are, then I look at the levels of the people already joined - I would rather be towards the higher end of the range than at the bottom. Then I look at the comments. If it says IP, or elite for BB, or BYOH or Know it, or solo this that or the other, then I look elsewhere. The reason being that to me that sort of comment seems unfriendly and indicative of a group that has a specific way they want to play and don't want someone who might spoil it for them.

I have only once put up my own LFM and that was at Mabar with a 'come and go as you please' message. I am not a leader. I don't know enough about the quests to be a leader and tell people what they should do or where to go. I could put up an LFM that says 'need guide' but again, forum experience has put me off doing that too.

I don't think I have ever seen an LFM that has as its comment 'beginners welcome', or 'come learn this quest' or 'none of us have done this, lets explore'. Those are the sort of LFMs that I would join.

AJ

Sad...
All I can say is that not all PUGs are like that.

Usually you can tell something of the leader's attitude from the LFM comments... but even if th ecomments are unfriendly, some leaders are more friendly inside the dungeon. (although I say do not join those with unwelcoming comments out of principle.)

Other LFMs are kinda a gamble, but most groups are ok....

I would say a rough 50% are great experiences.
An overlapping 70% are quietly and go quickly with little chit chat.

Only a small percentage are actually bad... (but depends on your own tolerance level)





On a side note: kinda ironic that I am such a proponent of welcoming tolerant LFMs, yet I get frequently annoyed by other players.... just not by noobs. I get annoyed by those who pretend to know something... but are "needy" or blame others or lack of others...

[Uska]

I miss being able to ding bad posts














I miss giving dinging rep :(










;

[nibel]

I can see why for everything from byoh and the rest after that, but I'm kind of surprised that even IP or elite for BB is a turn off.

IP is a turn off because you never know if you are eating -80% or not.

Once I saw a 35-minute IP Pit. Since I was looking for the favor, I joined up willying to eat up an 80% XP penalty (20% of a long quest done quickly is still good XP). Then I enter, and they are struggling on the FIRST furnace, trying to climb up to the valve. I did the usual (asked if everyone is new to the quest, if they want me to lead and teach about it, etc), and finished with an 1-hour quest timer.

On the other hand, I joined a 10-minute normal pit, and thougth they were new players trying to learn. I still got -50% penalty because they were a group of 3 friends splitting up and zerging the quest because split-up pit is amazing xp.

For new players, also have the problem of maybe not knowing where the quest is (if people flip out when on city, imagine the rage that ensues if they are inside the quest), or risking get lost inside the quest for not knowing where is the path.

[~swimmingjellycube]

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?
I'm not new, although there are several quests I've never done.
I would like somebody to teach me Abbot, because there's no way that I'm going to be able to solo it.

[PermaBanned]

IP is a turn off because you never know if you are eating -80% or not.
A fair point. My solution for this problem has been to send a tell before clicking "join." Just asking "how far in are you" will let you know if your likely to take an xp penalty... Unless, I suppose, your very unfamiliar with the quest in question. In that case, asking specifically "do you think the late penalty will ware off before completion?" is a good idea.

For new players, also have the problem of maybe not knowing where the quest is (if people flip out when on city, imagine the rage that ensues if they are inside the quest), or risking get lost inside the quest for not knowing where is the path.
Surely this isn't the case with every quest? What about IP lfms for a quest that you do know where it is & are familiar with "the path"? Many (though granted not all) quests in this game are fairly straight forward journeys from entrance to exit. That being said, I have to agree that joining an IP lfm for a quest you're not familiar with can easily lead to grief for both you and the party you join.
As for people raging about someone not knowing where a quest is, yah, that happens. However I'm sure not everyone does this. I don't (ok, maybe if I'm having one of those cranky "off" days) and I've run with many others who don't either.


I would like somebody to teach me Abbot, because there's no way that I'm going to be able to solo it.
Well, tbh I don't want to break down an entire raid here. But I'll give you the short version: after flagging for Abbot, look for any lfm for it. Before hitting "join" send a tell letting the lead know it's your first time. There's always room for 2-4 first timers, it's just a question of wether or not one of those spots are taken. If your on Thelanis, look up "Myhealer" and I'll put you in touch with a couple great people I know who do "teaching" runs just for this purpose (and those runs in turn only need 2-4 experienced Abbot raiders, rest of the spots open to first timers).

[nibel]

Surely this isn't the case with every quest?

No. If the quest hasn't started yet, you can at least expect people to guide you to the quest entrance (even if its something as flimsy as seeing their dot on the map), and you don't have a problem of getting lost most of the time because you can just follow the group inside the quest.

[forummuleonly]

"Myhealer"


I recommend your heals to everyone.

You and 2 others are who I hope to find online when I post my LFM's to keep my squishy feat starved fighter with a paladin icon alive. Alas, I have not seen the other two log on, nor their alts in over a year now. /sadface.

[MindCakes]

Well, I don't think I could be considered "new" by any stretch...
But I still remember those first days two years ago, so if you care, this would be my answers, after about 2 months of playing:

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?
Only very rarely.
Why not: well, the star comes with join requests panel, and also implies leadership. While the actual leadership is optional (and indeed, ending up with a star, I'd often open up with "So, anyone got an idea what to do next?"), the join requests are built in - and are yet another thing to manage. And I sure remember not needing another thing to juggle between not tripping over my feet, not getting lost, targeting and attacking, choosing correct weapons, picking up items, managing inventory and getting a general idea of what's going on so I can do it better the next time.
I'd rather join another party and have someone else take care of the star.


What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?
I used to avoid (Still do, actually, even if for somewhat different reasons):
LFMs where there is no quest selected. I was premium with very few packs and no knowledge of what's where - without the quest selected I couldn't tell if I had the pack, even if quest name was in the description.

LFMs where the text description, selected quest and locations of party members are in significant mismatch - that means some of the info was not updated so I'd have no idea what I'm subscribing to. Also I couldn't tell whether I had the pack or no.

"know it" - back then I honestly couldn't say "I know Durk's secret.". Still won't join these. Even after two dozens of runs through a quest I can't truly say I know all ins and outs, all tricks, tactics and exploits. Yeah, I'm bordering on solipsism here, but there's hardly a quest I'd say I know completely.

"vets/TRs only" - it simply didn't apply to me back then. Some of it could apply now, but I still won't join these on principle - I don't want anyone measuring if I'm tall enough to board the ride, regardless of what the results would be. This now includes "byoh" and "zerg", but back in those first months I hadn't yet encountered these terms.

LFMs with class restrictions that in my opinion shouldn't be there - even as a newb I dared to have a strong opinion on leaders who actively disallow more than one member of a class from joining. That opinion was and remains: "squelch 'em".



Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?
Exciting, definitely.
I couldn't understand the times we'd get about half ways through a quest, wipe/near wipe due to some oversight or simple accident of a couple bad save rolls, and then 3-5 people would recall and drop group (especially when me and the remaining people were usually able to regroup and complete).
As they say ignorance is a bliss. Not knowing a thing about XP mechanics, first time bonuses, death/repeat/reentry penalties, needed XP and so on, I didn't care much about getting disintegrated by a beholder, having to recall and run back before the instance timed out, thrice, as long as I eventually emerged victorious.



Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?
A mixture of both I guess...
Figuring stuff out is cool, but sometimes it takes long, or you get stuck, or there's some obscure trick that's hard to figure out, then it's nice to have someone more experienced step in.

Someone to provide tips like which element resists are called for or what kind of weapons work the best in a given quest is very appreciated almost every time, random trivia and secret tactics are also cool.
But it's rare to find that in one package, and in moderation too. It takes exceptional person to be a good teacher while you're understandably in hurry to farm XP/loot for yourself. I met a handful, and they sure left a lasting impression, but as mentioned, it's rare.

The more frequent scenario is the runs where 2-3 people had been in the quest before, or maybe browsed the wiki or somesuch and each has a general idea - thus each would provide some of the starting tips, some of the trivia and tactics, a piece or two of useful gear, and we'd have to work together to figure it all out. Those are very good runs.

The runs where no one knows anything and we have to figure it out from scratch can often be a bit too tedious - too much backtracking, no one has necessary gear, or it turns out that you need a rogue by the end... or worse yet, we somehow managed to lock ourselves out (or just lock someone out of a major fight) or we didn't know about some important detail, like for example the respawning wildmen in Storm the Beaches.
Usually it turns out ok, just... tedious.

[Ed_Conn]

Quite frankly I am so green you could plant me, but since you said please
https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.png

I have played DnD computer games going back to the Gold Box series I thought I would give online a try. I huge world of difference, and the old PC games just don't qualify as experience.


Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

I have. I wanted to try playing with a group and I could not find for the Quests I had available. So I started my own. The experience was not the best. As a result I'm not looking forward to starting another one. "Once bitten" kind of thing. To be fair the problem may have been my expectations. Also being new, I may not have placed my LFM properly. Whatever the reason the quest was run through so quickly I know nothing about what happened. I am sure I left stuff in chests because I didn't even know they were opened. In short, I was looking to role-play and the people who joined ran through it like it was an FPS.


What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

I tried joining 2 LFMs. 2 different experiences. The first one was a complete pleasure. I joined another player, I explained I was new when I joined. Whoever this player was, was great. He (or she) took the time to show me a few things, we chatted numerous times through the quests (we played through 3), in short I actually felt like I was party of a team. The second one I joined, not so good. I had a hard time finding the group, no one responded to my chats, the quest was over before I got there.

Short answer, until I am more comfortable with the system, I would probably join LFMs that have or two people in them and respond to me if I chat. I realize that some people may not want to play with new players, so I would tell them I am new, but I no one responds, no point in me continuing with that group.



Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

I love new quests. I would rather play quests I have never done, than rehash quests I have already gone through. I can't imagine I would enjoy repeating quests, unless I failed the first time, used a different character, etc.


Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

Personal preference, I prefer the opportunity to try and figure it out on my own. Or discussing it with others that haven't done the quest yet, a party should collaborate. But I don't mind being taught if I am holding things up too long, or about to make a mistake that will get everyone killed.


I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm. We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

So I thought I'ld try asking all y'all directly.
While I wish I could promise no one will come here and say something callous or derogatory in response to anything you have to say on the matter, the simple truth is I can't. However, I can be fairly certain that should someone do so, you'll likely get the satisfaction of seeing someone else tell 'em where to stick the unneeded/unhelpful commentary ;)

So please, sound off and tell us "vets" what you new folk actually are: looking for, thinking about and wanting to find when it comes to lfms in general & new (to you) quests in particular.

Thanx in advance :)

Final thought - Being so new ( I just got my first and only character out of Korthos) I don't know what to tell the "vets" I am looking for, because I really don't know yet. I am trying to learn the mechanics, the etiquette, the things I have no idea about, etc. while still having fun. Being new there are times I simply have to stop just to figure out what something means or how to do something. Add to all that different players will have different styles. I would prefer a more casual role playing experience, but I get that some people may want what I call the "hack and slash" style. Maybe I need to join a guild to find what I am looking for, but which one? And what do they do they do? I'm simply to new to know. But maybe learning that should be part of the gaming experience. I ma trying to read the forums on things I need to figure out, but I guess there was a change to the forums because links just give me bad gateways.

I hope I can figure out a way to enjoy the group thing, or find a group I am happy with. Quite frankly, if I am just going to solo the whole time, I may as well go back to the elder scrolls.

[Enoach]

If the OP is like me, when we were Newbs so was the entire Server or at least most of it and running into a knowledgeable person was like rare hehehe...

Ok things I know I like and all this is based off "New Content", I like to Do everything the first time, optional objectives and regular ones (you know the ones where only one person is really needed to do it kind of thing). Personally I don't mind spending a long time in a quest looking for secretes and just generally enjoying the quest. I'm one of those that went into Rusted Blades and actually looked for "All" of the weapon racks, pulling my panther out to pull the lever for me so I could get in.

As a vet that does join pugs, I try to determine how the party wants to run the quest and basically relive the enjoyment of the first time. Some don't want to run it slower then what they think it should be run, and that is fine, but they should really join a different group and let others get a chance to learn the quest. As a rule I only step in when the group is about to do something that would prevent them from completing a quest.

[Enoach]

..

Final thought - Being so new ( I just got my first and only character out of Korthos) I don't know what to tell the "vets" I am looking for, because I really don't know yet. I am trying to learn the mechanics, the etiquette, the things I have no idea about, etc. while still having fun. Being new there are times I simply have to stop just to figure out what something means or how to do something. Add to all that different players will have different styles. I would prefer a more casual role playing experience, but I get that some people may want what I call the "hack and slash" style. Maybe I need to join a guild to find what I am looking for, but which one? And what do they do they do? I'm simply to new to know. But maybe learning that should be part of the gaming experience. I ma trying to read the forums on things I need to figure out, but I guess there was a change to the forums because links just give me bad gateways.
...

Just take the words of Dr. River Song "Spoilers". Just ask for no spoilers, let them know this is your first time.

[~Leannan]

Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not? generally solo, don't start LFMs as I've no high level chars yet (except 1 stoned) and prefer to solo in MMOs anyway. If I do group, it's within guild (family & friends only). I know that's a bit anti-social, but I've never really bought in to the "MMOs are about meeting people" thing anyway, MMOs are about having fun and that's 10x easier imo if you solo/group with people you know irl!

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting? exciting, as I don't know what to expect. That's another reason I solo though, it doesn't matter if I screw up, even to the point of wiping.

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why? That's a tough one. I kinda like to learn it on my own, and learn from my (many) mistakes, but don't mind being lead through a quest I'm not familiar with. My nephew is a bit of a demon for racing through content, and I've grouped with him on quests I've never done. That said, I'm an all options player (all optionals, max conquest and break barrels/crates), he's a zerger, so grouping together is like pulling teeth for both of us!

I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm. We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

So I thought I'ld try asking all y'all directly.
While I wish I could promise no one will come here and say something callous or derogatory in response to anything you have to say on the matter, the simple truth is I can't. However, I can be fairly certain that should someone do so, you'll likely get the satisfaction of seeing someone else tell 'em where to stick the unneeded/unhelpful commentary ;)

So please, sound off and tell us "vets" what you new folk actually are: looking for, thinking about and wanting to find when it comes to lfms in general & new (to you) quests in particular.

Thanx in advance :)

Replies in bold ([color=blue] didn't work

[PermaBanned]

I really appreciate all the feed back that is and isn't coming in! Lots of people referencing there early adventuring carreers, and a few genuine new commers! And next to no trolls!

I've found the responses thus far quite enlightening, though in some cases a little disappointing - those being a few reports of very negative grouping experiences in some folks first few attempts. Don't let 'em deter ya; pugging is like trying new foods: most are pretty good, and only a few leave a bad taste in your mouth ;)

I find it interesting how many people seem to prefer soloing, early on I found it frustrating. Then again the rogue I referred to on page one was as good at solo combat as it was at Gwaylands' traps...

Keep the responses coming, and again I thank all of you who are participating and keeping everything so posative!

[~TuggyNE]

Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

I've been on DDO for a while, but a combination of rampant altoholism and lack of twitch gaming skills means I don't have any characters over 16. (Also, a slow computer. But that just plays into the twitch gaming inability, I guess.)


Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

Sometimes; mostly when I know I can't possibly, or can't practically, complete a quest alone or with a hire.

Alternatively, if I feel sufficiently confident in a set of quests to try for a BB streak.


What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

LFMs that are likely to be competent, but not expect way too much out of me or rush things along. BYOH, IP, TR only, and so forth just don't encourage me.


Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

Something of both; I really hate entering a quest for the first time in a party, but prefer to spend one or two tries first at my own speed to figure it out.

The biggest exception I've made to this was out of necessity; VoN5/6 obviously can't reasonably be soloed, so I went in as a healbot/buffbot with a couple of guildies and a half-baked PUG. We made it partway through 6 before wiping, due primarily to the other healers not quite keeping up, and many of the other party members unable or unwilling to stick to the plan. (I actually managed to keep my split alive the longest, which I'm proud of; when it was obvious the raid had failed, I recalled out, rather than dying. ;))


Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

I wouldn't necessarily mind being taught, but the chance of getting someone who will remember what actually needs to be mentioned and will also keep a friendly tone seems somewhat low, around 1/3 (very roughly), so I try to figure things out on my own. Also, I do prefer to know things before making others rely on me.

[~MagicEmperor]

Nice post, and I commend you for the way you wrote it, but I'm afraid you're going to run into the same problem people always run into when asking these sorts of questions.

The people you are addressing do not visit the Forums.

I'm here.
I'm fairly new (my highest level toon is 13).
On Orion I normally ask in general chat, moving from area to area (harbor/market/houses/etc...) for groups to help in quests that you can't do alone (or at least very easily) like Chronoscope, Xorian Cipher, Tempest Spine) and I am totally and utterly ignored.

:rolleyes:

[~Gilderon]

entered in bolb, hope that works

Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:well been playing a year but one of those older slower learners so often consider myself as noob-like in heavy quests

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?Yes I do, although not often. Most often for slayers as I am less likely to be left behind or get lost.

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why? Will not join anything BYOH, or anything that seems exclusive. No Zergs, etc... Had a few bad experiences which have made me more than a bit shy of those 5% noob(old and slow player) haters

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting? Exciting, although I don't solo often (I did in the first few months) I am thinking I will take it back up again! finding the game is getting more convoluted in the last year and I have trouble keeping up, can not solo raids so I never feel prepared for those.

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why? Probably a bit of both, now I have 2 lvl 20 toon and one lvl 17 I am finding it hard to get groups for packs I own

I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm. We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

So I thought I'ld try asking all y'all directly.
While I wish I could promise no one will come here and say something callous or derogatory in response to anything you have to say on the matter, the simple truth is I can't. However, I can be fairly certain that should someone do so, you'll likely get the satisfaction of seeing someone else tell 'em where to stick the unneeded/unhelpful commentary ;)

So please, sound off and tell us "vets" what you new folk actually are: looking for, thinking about and wanting to find when it comes to lfms in general & new (to you) quests in particular.

Thanx in advance :)

[supott]

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?
Almost never. The rare events are when i am zerg farming, and i just put come & go as you please. I don't like leading people as i always imagine the person at the back of the computer could be one of those know-it-all's who'd end up trying to be the one who leads and bosses around. Different ppl might have different ways of doing things so if my way is different, someone might complain.

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?
Groups with "Zerg" are ok. "BYOH" is ok i guess. "Have a clue" sounds pretty elitist to me so not the type of group i'd join.
I usually do a few quests on my own before I feel ready to join an LFM. The reason is because i take grouping seriously. I want to give my best and therefore need to make sure i have already warmed up. I do not want to waste my group's time and want them to remember me nicely.

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?
If it's solo, then exciting. A lot of pressure if its with a group of strangers.

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?
Figure out on my own by my self. I need to go slow to learn. Even if i run with a group, i won't learn the quest right away because i will just be following. Also i noticed playing a healer type, its harder to learn a quest since the focus is mostly on your party members' healths

[supott]

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?
With regards to avoiding stuck up players, i try to remember who they are so that i won't group with them again. You can say that while they are few, just having 1 of them out of 6 in a group can be a drag, especially for a new player because the new player will be his target. Part of my learning as a noob in DDO was learning who not to group with.

[marciosilva]

So I will reply your topics as a still learning player, as I can't be considered noob anymore (7 toons, 2 TRs, favor toons in every server, I guess I'm ok :D )

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?
I start my own LFMs from time to time, if I realy need a certain quest and need people to help me out.

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?
I avoid BYOH (unless I know party leader and hence the reason for that game strategy), and usually IP runs (again, unless I know the leader or if they have just stepped in and I'm near quest entrance).

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?
I have done a few new quests to myself, while in a PUG. Not too bad, I only need to say to everybody "I'm new to this quest / never done it" and usually people get along and help me on the way. I avoid it if LFM states "know quest" or something like that.

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?
I like to figure out on my own when I have the chance for it, but if I have a party to play with, if they don't mind teaching me, I do accept any tips from other players.

_____

As a learning player, I like PUGing. I've done entire quest chains with the same PUG, and still have fun with it. Luck? Be in the right place at the right time? I don't know, but usually PUGs work well for me.

As a not-so-new player, I like to start my own LFMs and teach what little I know about the quest I'm doing. In fact, I've been named party leader many times just after a finished quest (and sometimes even inside a quest) after others know myself as a player. I believe other newer players trust me in order to do that and let me guide them, wich is good and pays off the hard work as a team.

My toon names are in my sig. If you come across any of them, don't be afraid to ask me for tips or help on a quest. I may have one toon or two that I can use to help others, depending on what do they need.

Note: this thread could be in the new player section, couldn't it? When I'm new to a game, I always look in Newer Players section first :D

[~Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona]

Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

No, I don't feel like wating around. I want to play NOW, I have limited play time and tend to log in / out sporadicaly depending on situations outside the game.

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

I don't look to join, again, I want to play not wait around.

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

Yes all the time, I have yet to run all quests at least once. Mixed feelings depending on what I read on ddowiki or looked up in Youtube.

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

Figuring out on my own because I don't feel like holding back others if I decide to group someday, I want to have the knowledge of the quest before attemtping it in a group...for obvious quest drama reasons.

Raids being the exception here, I would enjoy having 1 or more players to coach / mentor me if I could find a group of people with the necessary patience and understanding, prefereably a static raiding group, heck I would be all over that in a second...but I have yet to encounter 5 like minded people on my server that are not in my guild.



see inline above.

Admirable post, and I took the time to give you my perspective on my way of playing as a recent new arrival to the game in the last 18 months. Honestly, if nobody runs stuff on Normal or Hard in the LFM pannel...how the hell are people new to the game supposed to learn when every LFM is ELITE?? But see vets don't want to play in boring mode, they want to play in uber fast excitting mode...because they ran the bloody quest a million times already and can do it with eyes closed and one hand tied behind their back.

If I only ran a quest once or twice on Hard / Normal at level and had a hard time with it, the last thing I am going to do is embarrass myself and try it with a group on Elite...I seriously don't want the backlash ...I come here to unwind and relax and enjoy a game, not deal with drama.

There will always be a disconnect between both camps of players...why? because of the gap in where they are at in the game...vets have the uber gear, they have the metagaming experience, but IMO lack the patience and understanding of what it is like to be new to something and feel intimidated by the quest mechanics and lack of meta gaming knowledge. They don't want to slow down to completing a 10 minute quest in an hour to teach someone the basics...the expectation is that we should be able to keep up and read their minds.

At least that is the impression I get reading the forums and LFM pannel. New players need and want the hand holding and to take the time to properly understand what the quest is about without being talk down to, humiliated and made to feel 2 inches tall by some elitist jerk and his e-peen attitude about how godlike he / she is just because they asked a legit question because they do not have the knowledge.

Honestly the only thing I am really interested in is running VON (which i just recently re-flagged for on my 2nf life - first TR'ed toon), Shroud, ToD and Reaver's raids...I don't want to group in quests when I can solo them just fine at level on Hard for my streak. I come back later to get the eilite favor.

Curently sitting at 97 completions for my streak on Hard - solo, almost level 13 (2 rogue / 10 sorc).

I only ever ran 1 raid, VoD with my guild. Everyone knew what they were doing, so I basically just followed and took screen shots....I did not really learn much in that run, too busy trying to keep up ... our guild leader invited me because he knew I never ran a raid before, and he walked me through the wilderness to the Raid entrance, it was a great experience to be in the group. And I will run more raids with my guild when the time difference syncs up for us (every player in the guild save me, in Canada, and another in the USA are in the same time zone, the rest are in Manila, Philippinnes). I joined this guild because it's the only Filipino guild on my server that I know of.

I play on Sarlona.

[~Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona]

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?
With regards to avoiding stuck up players, i try to remember who they are so that i won't group with them again. You can say that while they are few, just having 1 of them out of 6 in a group can be a drag, especially for a new player because the new player will be his target. Part of my learning as a noob in DDO was learning who not to group with.

Are you Pinoy? Your forum name seems Pinoy...lol

[Lanatir]

Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm. We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

So I thought I'ld try asking all y'all directly.
While I wish I could promise no one will come here and say something callous or derogatory in response to anything you have to say on the matter, the simple truth is I can't. However, I can be fairly certain that should someone do so, you'll likely get the satisfaction of seeing someone else tell 'em where to stick the unneeded/unhelpful commentary ;)

So please, sound off and tell us "vets" what you new folk actually are: looking for, thinking about and wanting to find when it comes to lfms in general & new (to you) quests in particular.

Thanx in advance :)

Well, considering that i started 2 days ago, i assume i am what can be considered a noob (even tho i played this game a bit in the time before there were hirelings.

Doesnt get much noobier than me i would think.

Since i did remember that this game depends a lot on character build i spent my first day researching on various webpages and forums on what to play and how to build my character. Changed my mind about 342 times while i did it.

Now, to answer your questions: Do i start LFM? No. Not anymore. After some rather weird experiences with people popping up in my group that simply couldnt grasp the fact that there is still players with 28 point builds that werent on their 58th new life, i stopped LFM and started to spend points on hirelings. the gold ones.

Do i enter LFM? No. i dont understand the new LFM system where it says something about active or not active or expired, and i dont wanna jump into a quest that is already going on, i want the full monty.
If i WOULD join a LFM it would probably be one where it says 'newbie friendly'. But since i havent seen that so far, didnt happen.

Entering a new quest is exciting, but i try to do some research in advance to see if it is even possible to do it solo or with hirelings.

I would LOVE to end up in a group where someone would take the time to explain the ropes to me and give me advice on how to play this particular quest or other Quests, as long as it doesnt sound like 'rofl, dood, you are still wearing the starter ****, you know ****, what a stupid noob you are, i am so much better than you!'

Yes. I do know i am a 28 point build. I do realise my build is probably far from being acceptable, or even good. Yes, i do know i am slow. And after you get tired of hearing it for the umptieth time...you simply stop grouping.

[Ammonihah]

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

I start my own lfms only if there are none up for me to join, I prefer to join than to start.

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

I join any lfm in my level range that isn't byoh, know it, be able to solo, or the like. The reason bring that I don't feel I can meet those requirements at this point. I've had great experiences joining and letting the group know I'm new to the quest.

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

Dauntingly exciting? It's stressful, but fun at the same time.

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

I like to be taught if someone actually knows the quest. I don't like to be"taught"by people who think they know a quest, but don't really. I'll often check the wiki before a new quest to get an idea of how to prepare for a quest.

[bsquishwizzy]

Any of your Newbs, Noobs, inexperienced players on G-Land, if you need someone for a PUG hit me up:

Antipan,
Pandargon,
Pandolin,
Panifin,
Pangrael,
Panmorgan.

I'll run with ya if I'm not running with my regular peeps...uh..."yo."

Just please, don't fireball my webs. That's really all I ask.

[PermaBanned]

Forum issue double post

[PermaBanned]

Note: this thread could be in the new player section, couldn't it? When I'm new to a game, I always look in Newer Players section first :D

I considered this, and decided that dew to the double purpose of the thread, general was a better location. You see, I not only wanted to "hear the voices" of the newer players, I also wanted the "vets" who -my self included- often squabble with eachother over lfm posting practices and how they relate to/effect new players, see this and if they were interested check out the responses.

The general consensus I'm seeing (with some exceptions, of course) is that many of you prefer to solo a quest at least your first time through. In some cases just because it's your preceded playstyle, in others because of poor grouping experiences. In many posts I'm seeing that people would like to find "first timers welcom" lfms, which are unfortunately few & far between. On quests I know well enough I'll start posting these... At least on my healer type lives ;)

Another common trend I'm seeing is a dislike for waiting around for groups. This is the driving force behind "IP" lfms. For those who would like to group with other new-to-quest players, may I suggest starting an lfm with notes along the lines of "learning the quest, starting in 5 minutes." This takes the leadership burdon off of the pl(party leader) and limits waiting around time to something pretty reasonable, while still giving enough opportunity for some people to join. This is how I did much of my early adventuring carreer, and had some great times running a quest new quest with other new-to-questers. Never liked soloing much early on (personally I hate hirelings and get the impression the feelings mutual) nor did I like the "letting them down" feeling that came with, well, being a noob in the company of vets. Once I became more comfortable with grouping in general, I found it easier to join pugs and just announce "hey, I still don't this quest well, that ok?" More often than not it's more than ok. Many of us actually do enjoy showing newer players how a particular quest works, but will assume that if nobody claims to be new, then nobody is so no explanations are given.

If I may, I'ld like ask some new questions:
For the groups you don't want to join ie: byoh, know it, etc... Do you find it a good thing that people who would likely be intolerant of new players use these, thus informing you they're not likely to be a fun group for you to join?

Conversely, do you think these types of "no noob" lfms are a bad thing and that all quest lfms should be open to all players (of appropriate level range of course), so that the new folks can learn/benefit from running with experienced players?

Those two questions seem to be the "meat and potatos" of most of the lfm arguments we vets indulge in. Some of you have even noted that coming across these particular discussion threads are what preemptively turned you off from pugging from the get-go.

Again, this whole thread has turned out even better than I had hoped and I thank you all! :D

Btw: I play "Myhealer" on Thelanis, though not at any regular times. Most often I'm on from 10:00 am to 2ish pm, and again from 10pm to 3ish am; all times US/Pacific. I'm TRing constantly, so I revisit any given level range about once every 3-4 weeks. Hit me up anytime you have questions, want a quest guide or need someone of the particular class I am at the moment - currently a Favored Soul, and every life can do traps.

[marciosilva]

For the groups you don't want to join ie: byoh, know it, etc... Do you find it a good thing that people who would likely be intolerant of new players use these, thus informing you they're not likely to be a fun group for you to join?

I think they are ok. Sometimes, even myself want to try a fast run just for completion or that tad of xp I need to level or rank up to get 1 more action point. I usually don't like that LFMs for myself, but I understand people who want fast runs. I'll usually pass them and look at the other more friendly LFMs.




Conversely, do you think these types of "no noob" lfms are a bad thing and that all quest lfms should be open to all players (of appropriate level range of course), so that the new folks can learn/benefit from running with experienced players?


If new players need friendly groups, then its natural that more experienced players need more equally experienced party members (or at least, with quest know-how to not ask silly and basic questions). Neither all of veteran players have time to teach others. I usually have time to teach what little I know. Newer players just need to avoid those more advanced LFMs, as I use to do.

[Brunhildha]

Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

...snip...

Thanx in advance :)

Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

Not usually, EXCEPT when on Niwareka, who is in the middle of a project of exploring every corner of every quest in a group. See https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/401371-Postcards-from-Niwa

I do clearly remember two problems. One was the social one previous posters refer to, and oddly, every good and patient leader who makes the group a joy to run, raises the bar and makes it more intimidating to have a go at leading yourself.

The second, though, was simply technical ignorance. This game is immensely complicated, which of course is part of its enduring appeal, but it IS confusing to start with. I suspect many handle this as I did, by deciding that some aspects I would simply ignore to begin with. And so I left the niceties of chat windows and the LFM panel for later. I think Niwa was level 5 and in a Guild before I knew how they worked.

How you could introduce them into the Korthos tutorial I have no idea, but it would certainly be worthwhile.

What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

When Niwa posts an LFM she adds "All Welcome, but may sniff flowers". The hope is that those who don't know what she means won't mind the pace anyway. Sometimes it works.

I play this game as an entertainment. It's much more engaging than the TV, but in the end, the aim is the same, which is to have spent two hours of an evening in a rewarding and enjoyable way. So while enjoying my two hours is important, whether I get one quest done or five, is not.

I have played competitive sport, and I do understand the other side of the coin, but I can't help thinking that this is the wrong vehicle for that mindset. It is after all, a fantasy role playing game. If you ever loose sight of the fact that you are pretending to be a (insert favourite character here) then something is just a bit wrong.

Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

I usually feeling both, and of course that's the appeal of new content. The best new runs were the Guild runs where everyone either really was new, or was at least willing to pretend ignorance.

Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

I prefer being taught, but I have had some good teachers. I remember my first ever Tempest spine happened to be lead by one of DoctorWhofan's alts. I only found out about her well afterwards, but I still remember the run, and the Raid.

[~MntMan]

I've been playing since FTP and sometimes I still consider myself a noob depending on if it is a new class I'm playing (As my 11th character I rolled a rogue. Who knew how awesome they could be? Kill count does mean something when you are assassinating 3 mobs at a time and just decimating a dungeon :p Kidding of course, but I love racking up the kills).

Also if it's a new quest to me or the game I can feel a it noobish. I absolutely hate logging into a new raid/quest as the only arcane or only healer not knowing if that role is absolutely critical to the completion of the quest and if I'll play my part right. Don't get me wrong, everyone's role can be critical but long long long ago I was scared out of my wits being the only caster in a Shroud run at level (well before epic levels) and having to break the crystal. I'd watched once on a melee to see it done as kind of a study to be prepared, but I hated the pressure. It was even longer still before I would join on my healer, but then only after i saw two other healers join before me so I knew it wouldn't be as hard. I was floored when I saw a FVS solo heal it and I thought they had to be the best player in the game at the time.

When new quest chains come up I usually run them on norm with a hire a few times on a character that isn't a TR so I don't care much about BB. Or if I recognize a few names in the group that are usually pretty zergish, but are easy going if you mess up.

Another thread was posted about changing the LFM panel, and some of those were good ideas, but often times it's the people in a group that make you gun shy to join another. Case and point I ran a FoT on my water savant sorc 1st life. I'd been having some fun with him and flagged so figured I'd try. I'd run FoT maybe 2 or 3 times before when it first came out then not so much after as groups stopped appearing on LFMs and the forum buzz was that it was outrageous to complete. I saw a group and joined and realized (horror) I was the only arcane. In the last run I did the arcane kited the Liar pair (I think it was) so I PM the group leader and tell him I've never kited the group, but would do what he asked. He said don't worry about it. Just dps and maybe help kite when the mobs spawned.

So we're going through prepping and killing each pair and it's going well. We get to the reaver and the Truthful One and my ice spells don't do damage on the dragon. ****. I can fire off acid, but meta'd out I am blowing through SP. I know that if I use my ice spells I can get more dps out the door. So like all other pairs I help prep the giant because ice does damage on him. I'm laying out some nice numbers on the guy and no one is saying a word. Then I pull aggro. Honestly that is my bad and I should have had better aggro management, but I do know that the giant needs to be away from the group so instead of run away form him I run towards him and the tank and turtle up with shield and blocking. The tank goes nuts. He's got voice chat (I just type) and starts screaming at me to stop hitting him. I mean damage is done. I have aggro. I'm not hitting him. So I tell him I'm not. Meaning not any more. He goes off like a little kid (though his voice sounded more like an adult) saying I'm lying and how he saw me hitting him. He says he hopes I die (not sure if he meant me or my character ;) ) and is really having a Yosemite Sam style fit. Well I die and easily enough aggro swings back to him and all is well in the world of DDO.

He proceeds to tell me how much of a liar I am as I'm trying to type that I know I WAS hitting him, but stopped when he asked. He then says he hopes no one rez's me so I don't get any loot. Well to be honest that would have been nice. It would have saved me about 6 major pots and some raise scrolls. Instead someone raises me and I focus on the dragon. The healers die a few times and I rez them back up. The dragon get's dps'd down and the giant doesn't die in time so they reset. We die. We get raises. We dps them down again and 6 pots later we win and of course the shrines pop as they always do. So much for the tankers plan. Not getting a raise would have been the cheapest thing for me.

I any case it was a laughable moment at how bent out of shape this guy got. However it was also pretty annoying and no one likes to be yelled at during a game for which we do for recreation. I admit perhaps I should have done some more research on the forums to see if the raid completion strategy had changed. If someone had said don't hit the giant from the start I wouldn't have. I did know that if I got aggro it was better to die then lead him to the group and that my bets chance to live was to go to the tank so I felt like I kept my head. Despite that it may be a bit before I join another FoT lfm on any of my characters to include my Arti and my Ranger, both of which I know are valuable in there, but I wouldn't want to mess up my role on them either.

[~Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona]

For the groups you don't want to join ie: byoh, know it, etc... Do you find it a good thing that people who would likely be intolerant of new players use these, thus informing you they're not likely to be a fun group for you to join?

Yes, I would rather see a bunch of NO NOOB LFMs clearly spelled out, than to have an LFM with little or no info and then get beat up verbally after joining. That way I know what to avoid.

Conversely, do you think these types of "no noob" lfms are a bad thing and that all quest lfms should be open to all players (of appropriate level range of course), so that the new folks can learn/benefit from running with experienced players?

Like minded groups should play together. Mixing up vets and noobs will only work if the correct expecation is set and the leader is capable of managing the knowledge gap and pace of the quest.

Raids are a different animal, I would love to see more mentoring / training initiatives like the one I have seen on Sarlona in the foums. I know there is a dedicate channel for it, but never tried joining.

I will try an experiment this weekend during my play time (i rarely play during the week). I will post my first LFM with something like "noobs helping noobs, all welcome, no drama" and grab the first couple of people that hit it, heck I might even be the leader and see how it goes on a quest I have run a few times, but not an expert. I am even willing to sacrifice my BB by doing it at level on Normal (heck it only takes 5 quest completions to get back to full streak)

If that goes well I may start my own LFMs more often.