Why do monsters not roll d20 for save throws?

[knightgf]

Alright, after extensive gameplay experience through DDO, I can conclude that monsters of all sorts DO NOT use a d20 die like us to make saving throws. If anything, its more of a 1d6, maybe 1d8 throw. My question is, why not d20 like us? I can't think of any good explanation whatsoever to not use a d20 die for monster saves...

[Ape_Man]

Assuming this isn't a troll (and if it is good one, I sense some potential) what makes you draw this conclusion?

[knightgf]

Assuming this isn't a troll (and if it is good one, I sense some potential) what makes you draw this conclusion?

Mostly with Spell DC's and the DC's of various tactical feats. It seems to me that there is no way a monster rolls a d20 like us. It has to be a shorter or special type of die due to the way monsters save a lot more with even a 1 dc difference.

[Gkar]

(and if it is good one, I sense some potential)

Looking at his last couple threads... I'm thinking Ape Man may have mutated into Troll Man

[redspecter23]

Alright, after extensive gameplay experience through DDO, I can conclude that monsters of all sorts DO NOT use a d20 die like us to make saving throws. If anything, its more of a 1d6, maybe 1d8 throw. My question is, why not d20 like us? I can't think of any good explanation whatsoever to not use a d20 die for monster saves...

Are you suggesting that my 16 int dumped wizard can go into EE and finger 1 out of every 6 mobs?

Are you saying that my 12 wisdom monk can stun approximately 1 out of every 3 epic elite mobs with stunning fist?

Provide some maths or go back under the bridge.

[Ape_Man]

Looking at his last couple threads... I'm thinking Ape Man may have mutated into Troll Man

My goal is to have the term "aping" replace "trolling."

[Ape_Man]

Mostly with Spell DC's and the DC's of various tactical feats. It seems to me that there is no way a monster rolls a d20 like us. It has to be a shorter or special type of die due to the way monsters save a lot more with even a 1 dc difference.

You're gonna need some real evidence to back this claim. This is like the time I claimed to invent the question mark.

[knightgf]

In all the times I've casted spells with a save, used tactical feats among other things, I swear that monsters roll either a 1d6 or 1d8 instead of the usual 1d20 like everybody else. It is just my instinct. I wish there was a way to test this claim and prove it, but alas, I cannot find such a way.

Rolling a 1 and auto-failing a save tends to be different with monsters. I'm guessing it may be a separate percentage. As for monsters making the occasional auto-save, haven't seen it. Sure, it may be rare for a monster to roll a 20 on a save, but as far as I can tell, I haven't honestly seen it.

[blerkington]

Hi,

What I'm not clear on is how you think you're seeing this at all. It doesn't seem to be explained by your posts beyond it being an impression, which is unreliable for a variety of reasons.

Some of the other posters have suggested you try going into very hard content and trying to reproduce a situation where mobs making saves could only be expected to fail their saves on a 1. That is one way to do it, but you may not survive long enough to get any useful data.

The reverse is also true too. If you have a high level character, try going into a very low level quest or wilderness area, using a save-based ability on the monsters, and seeing if they avoid it more than 1 in 20 times. Get your near max DC pale master, go out into Korthos, and starting FoDing the monsters there. I think you will see a 95% success rate or close enough.

To me, it sounds like you may be drawing this conclusion based on your observations of less extreme cases. Like using an ability whose DC is not so high that it's only working 5/6 or 7/8 times. If the ability in question is not at either extreme of the scale of effectivness, it's very hard to judge.

Thanks.

[danzig138]

What you're saying doesnt' even make any sense.