Quest Levels!

[FranOhmsford]

I've made these suggestions a number of times on the forums BUT I'm goingto put them all together here in this thread {Yes they may be different to something posted earlier today - This thread will take precedence!}.


I feel that the Adventure Compendium Needs a Complete Re-Work! From the Ground Up!
The game has changed so much over the years that this has become a virtual necessity for Quality of Life!

This is how I feel the Adventure Compendium should be:

Lvl 1
----

Storehouse's Secret
The Cannith Crystal
Heyton's Rest
The Collaborator

Lvl 2

Stopping the Sahaugin
Necromancer's Doom
Redemption
Sacrifices
Misery's Peak
Bringing the Light
Arachnophobia
Information is Key
Haverdasher
The Miller's Debt
An Explosive Situation
Home Sweet Sewer {Move Scragg outside Leaky Dinghy}
Recovering the Lost Tome {Move Questgiver outside Leaky Dinghy}
Baudry Cartamon Chain {Move Baudry into the Leaky Dinghy}
Kobold's New Ringleader {Move Guard Jung to Leaky Dinghy}

Lvl 3

Durk's Got a Secret
Garrison's Missing Pack
Butcher's Path
Stealthy Reposession
Smuggler's Warehouse
The Captives
Where There's Smoke
Kobold Assault
Waterworks Pt 1-4
Missing in Action
The Sunken Sewer

Lvl 4

Irestone Inlet
Redfang
The Swiped Signet
The Sacred Helm
STK Pt 1&2
The Sharn Syndicate {Full Chain}
The Catacombs {Full Chain}
Tangleroot Pt 1-4

Lvl 5

Halls of Shan to Kor
Freshen the Air
Proof is in the Poison
Rest for the Restless
Depths of Despair/Darkness/Discord & Doom {Depths of Despair will need work}
Dead Predators
Tangleroot Pt 5&6
Tomb of the Sanguine Heart
Tomb of the Immortal Heart
Tomb of the Crimson Heart
Tomb of the Burning Heart
The Snitch
Guard Duty

Lvl 6

Archer Pt
Ghost of a Chance
Prove Your Worth
The Legend of Two Toed Tobias
The Scoundrel's Run
The Stones Run Red
Brood of Flame
The Bloody Crypt
The Chamber of Insanity
The Lair of Summoning
The Ruined Halls
The Forgotten Caverns
Mirra's Sleepless Nights
Mystery of Delera's Tomb
Return to Delera's Tomb
Tangleroot Pt 7-10
A Small Problem
Partycrashers
Under the Big Top
Devil Assault

Lvl 7

Purge the Heretics
Caged Trolls
The Chronoscope
Redwillow's Ruins
The Missing Party
Free Delera
Thrall of the Necromancer
Valak's Mausoleum
Sorrowdusk Pt 1-4 {Grey Moon}
Gladewatch Outpost
Gwylan's Stand
Tear of Dhakaan
The Troglodyte's Get
Old Grey Garl
The Graverobber
The Bounty Hunter

Lvl 8

Taming the Flames
Caverns of Korromar
The Haunted Library
Bargain of Blood
Storm the Beaches
The Black Loch
Spies in the House
The Tide Turns
Sorrowdusk Pt 5&6
Stromvauld's Mine
Stormcleave Outpost

Lvl 9

Tomb of the Shadow Knight
Tomb of the Shadow Guard
Tomb of the Shadow Lord
Tomb of the Shadow King
Sorrowdusk Pt 7&8
The Tharashk Arena
The Prisoner
The Path to Madness
The Xorian Cypher
Claw of Vulkoor
The Last Stand
Fathom the Depths
The Giant Lieutenants
The Giants' Lair
The Giants' Supplies
Faithful Departed

Lvl 10

Sorrowdusk Pt 9&10
The Shadow Crypt
Gateway to Khyber
The Jungle of Khyber
Haywire Foundry
Sykros' Jewel
Reclamation
Tempest Spine
In Need of Supplies
The Rescue
Secure the Area
The Library of Threnal
Escort the Expedition
Hold for Reinforcements
Into the Deep
Church & the Cult

Lvl 11

The Missing Expedition
Entering the Gate Chamber/The Gate Chamber
The Vault of Night
The Plane of Night
The Chamber of Rahmat
The Chamber of Kourush
Purge the Fallen Shrine
Maraud the Mines
Raid the Vulkoorim
Relic of a Sovereign Past
The Keeper's Sanctuary
The Threnal Arena
Hiding in Plain Sight

Lvl 12

Slavers of the Shireking Mines
Bring Me the Head of Ghola Fan
The Spawn of Whisperdoom
And the Dead Shall Rise
From Beyond the Grave
Dreams of Insanity
Offering of Blood
Chains of Flame
The Chamber of Raiyum
Made to Order
Diplomatic Impunity
Tomb of the Blighted
Tomb of the Tormented
Tomb of the Unhallowed
Tomb of the Forbidden

Lvl 13

The Twilight Forge
The Titan Awakes
Frame Work
Eyes of Stone
Against the Demon Queen
Zawabi's Revenge
Mired in Kobolds
Trial by Fire
Feast or Famine
The Maze of Madness
The Cursed Crypt

Lvl 14

A Cabal for One
A Cry for Help
Foundation of Discord
Madstone Crater
Prison of the Planes
Assault on Summerfield
Blockade Buster
Undermine
Siegebreaker

Lvl 15

Delerium
Acid Wit
The Crucible
Gianthold Tor
The Reaver's Fate
Desecrated Temple of Vol
Inferno of the Damned
The Fleshmaker's Laboratory
Ghosts of Perdition
The Lords of Dust
The Missing
Sinister Storage
Fear Factory

Lvl 16

In the Flesh
Servants of the Overlord
The Spinner of Shadows
Rainbow in the Dark
Running with the Devils
Ritual Sacrifice
The Coalescence Chamber
Let Sleeping Dust Lie
Beyond the Rift
Litany of the Dead

Lvl 17

Murder by Moonlight
Outbreak
Overgrowth
Thorn & Paw
Finding the Path
Prey on the Hunter
The Thirteenth Eclipse
Ascension Chamber

Lvl 18

Acute Delirium
The Sane Asylum
Lord of Stone
Lord of Eyes
The Druid's Curse
The Riddle
Enter the Kobold
Monastery of the Scorpion
Vision of Destruction
Hound of Xoriat
Dream Conspiracy

Lvl 19

Stealer of Souls
I Dream of Jeets
The Shipwrecked Spy
The Mindsunder
In the Demon's Den
Eye of the Titan
Reclaiming Memories
Raiding the Giant's Vault
Mining for Ancient Secrets
Wrath of the Flame

Lvl 20

The Dreaming Dark
The Weapons Shipment
Genesis Point
Sins of Attrition
A New Invasion
Bastion of Power
Blown to Bits
Schemes of the Enemy
Power Play

Lvl 21

Tower of Despair
The Master Artificer
The Lord of Blades
The Lost Thread
Impossible Demands
The Unquiet Graves

Lvl 22

The Battle for Eveningstar
House of Rusted Blades
House of Broken Chains
House of Death Undone
Deal & the Demon
Reclaiming the Rift
The Portal Opens
Trial By Fury

Lvl 23

A Stay at the Inn
Detour
Lost in the Swamp
Rest Stop
The End of the Road

Lvl 24

Caught in the Web
Return to A Cabal for One
Return to Madstone Crater
Return to Prison of the Planes

Lvl 25

The Fall of Truth

If I've missed anything please let me know.

[FranOhmsford]

Lol - Forgot Ringleader!

Added.

[Gremmlynn]

Um, why?

Also you missed the church and the cult and the faithful departed that I noticed.

[DrNuegebauer]

Yeah, I don't get it. Why?

I can understand changing the a few of the 'less run' quests to a different level, but can't see the sense in what you're suggesting.

[Vellrad]

Why move questgivers from lobster to other side of harbor?

[FranOhmsford]

Why move questgivers from lobster to other side of harbor?

When I started this game I didn't even know the Cerulean Hills was there till my first two characters had outlevelled the slayer!

If Ringleader, Baudry, The Lighthouse and Scragg's Sewer Questgivers are moved to the Dinghy newbies will catch them in a better order than the current situation.

And I'm sure no-one here is going to disagree when I say that Durk's, Butcher's, Garrison's, Stealthy Repo and Smuggler's Warehouse Are significantly more difficult than Ringleader, Baudry and the Lighthouse!

I'm simply suggesting that those 3 quests {and Scragg's Sewer} are bracketed with BtL, Info is Key, Haverdasher and the other 3 Solo Quests rather than hidden on the opposite side of the Harbour.



Um, why?

Also you missed the church and the cult and the faithful departed that I noticed.

Thank you - Have added them both.
Moved them both up one level too - I know this leaves Lvl 8 looking light but that's more to do with having to move Threnal up than anything else {and Threnal hasn't been NEEDED for XP since I've been playing}.

As to why - There are many, many quests in the game that do feel like they've been shoe-horned into the wrong level.
I'm simply making a comprehensive list so that it can be referred back to when posting about this issue in the future as every time I talk about this issue I mention 2 or 3 quests but really want a comprehensive re-work of the Adventure Compendium.

At the Mid-Levels my main issue is BB and how it has impacted on Tier 2 Prestiges {The likes of HotD being basically heavily nerfed for Shadow Crypt was an annoyance}.
If I thought the Devs'd go for it I'd ask for the Shadow Flags to be moved to Lvl 10 rather than 9 BUT I expect that would be too much to ask.

[Spoonwelder]

I get where you are coming from ....other changes I would make....

Get all of Tangleroot in the same level range or at most two levels - I'd say 4 myself since 5 is pretty populated whlle 4 is light.

Same thing for Delera's shift it all to L7 - then move Tear to L8 to spruce that category up - I would even bump up the Troll and Heretics quests from 6-8 to help out L6.

I know this would all be a nice to have but will never happen but I can't help but think they could do a bit of tweeking to make these old packs fit the new single level mold.

[voxson5]

Why why why would you want to make the bauldry chain more of a run?

Apart from Kobold Assault, Irestone and the two cerulean hills quests; the harbour follows a nice and easy progression as you work from the leaky dinghy, around the outside of the map, then up the middle to the marketplace.

[redspecter23]

As far as moving quest givers around is concerned, I'd personally like to see more of them in taverns from a flavor point of view. It's an extra loading screen, which adds a bit of annoyance, but consolidating at least the harbor quest givers in 2 locations would make it easier for new players as well as make the taverns more like early game "hubs" for questing.

I will give the OP points for trying, but as pointed out, I think most of the quests are ok for the level they are at. The biggest offenders, in my opinion, are the early chains like STK, Delera's, TR, etc. I'd put them all within a 2 level range, either raising or lowering as necessary. I'd add a second version of 3bc and title it "Paragon 3BC" to keep in line with epic naming conventions. Paragon 3BC would be level 15-16 versions of the same quests with new higher level named loot. I think the quests and explorer might be run more often if they were in a level range that has few other options. I'd also eventually revamp Titan into an epic version as well with the new versions of the quests at level 26-27 (new raid like what was done in GH) with level 25+ versions of the raid loot dropping in the new raid. At the same time I'd raise heroic Titan and it's quests to level 15, again, in order to fill in the xp and quest gaps in that range and promote people running it for xp.

[FranOhmsford]

Why why why would you want to make the bauldry chain more of a run?

Sorry, No idea what you mean?

I've left the Baudry Chain at Lvl 2!
Putting Baudry in the Dinghy is so that Newbies from Korthos hit that chain BEFORE rather than AFTER the likes of Durk's, Garrison's, Butcher's & Stealthy Repo {all much harder quests}.


Apart from Kobold Assault, Irestone and the two cerulean hills quests; the harbour follows a nice and easy progression as you work from the leaky dinghy, around the outside of the map, then up the middle to the marketplace.

No - It really doesn't!

Standard progression as of now {and for the past 3+ years} is:

BtL, Info is Key, Haverdasher, Durk's, Garrison's, Ringleader, Baudry, Smuggler's, Stealthy.

The Lighthouse may get missed entirely as it's out of the way!
Butcher's tends to get hit last!

I'm simply suggesting that Newbies should be directed to the easier quests FIRST!



I get where you are coming from ....other changes I would make....

Get all of Tangleroot in the same level range or at most two levels - I'd say 4 myself since 5 is pretty populated whlle 4 is light.

Same thing for Delera's shift it all to L7 - then move Tear to L8 to spruce that category up - I would even bump up the Troll and Heretics quests from 6-8 to help out L6.

I know this would all be a nice to have but will never happen but I can't help but think they could do a bit of tweeking to make these old packs fit the new single level mold.

I've tried to stay within the realms of Putting quests where they belong for their CURRENT Difficulty.

Moving Delera's Pt 1 to 7 would require beefing said quest up {slightly - though the Devs would probably over-do it}.
Lvl 6 fits though as is - By my List the whole chain would be 6-7 rather than 5-8 {a definite improvement}.

Tangleroot:
I've moved Pt 1 & 2 up to Lvl 4
I've moved Pt 9 & 10 down to Lvl 6
So we'd have 4 Lvl 4 quests, 2 Lvl 5 and 4 Lvl 6 - A definite Improvement on the current 2 per lvl and 3-7 Lvl range!
Again - Doing this would NOT require any changes to the quests themselves!

STK:
Again I've moved Pt 1 {And the Sacred Helm} up one level!
Pt 3 remains Lvl 5.
Still better than the current 3-5 arrangement!

Moving Trolls and Heretics to Lvl 7 as Lvl 6 has way too many quests on my list and these do just about meet the standard for Lvl 7 f2p!


I'd add a second version of 3bc and title it "Paragon 3BC" to keep in line with epic naming conventions. Paragon 3BC would be level 15-16 versions of the same quests with new higher level named loot. I think the quests and explorer might be run more often if they were in a level range that has few other options.

No, No, No!

I like 3 Barrel Cove just the way it is thank you very much!

Yes I've made small changes to the quest levels BUT NOT 10 Levels worth!

[TGOskar]

Of the only qualms I see thus far might be Proof is in the Poison. At Normal, it can be a pretty difficult quest, but it's deceptively and...erm...positively?...EVIL at Elite. Even with a decent party to work with, you can have a complete wipe thanks to the bunch of casters around and the massive acid pits.

Something around N6/H7/E8 or N5/H7/E9 would fit it better, and maybe make it give unique named loot. As of now, the only real reason why to take it is because of the great XP for its level, but it's not...say, the Pit, which has other incentives aside from its great XP. An Eternal Wand of Melf's Acid Arrow would be pretty awesome, though the amount of uses should differ (8-10 charges, recover all with rest). Lots of loot related to the Quickfoot would be pretty nice.

[voxson5]

Sorry, No idea what you mean?


Think about it. How far is Cartamon's warehouse from the Lobster?
Now, how much FURTHER away is the Dinghy?



Standard progression as of now {and for the past 3+ years} is:

BtL, Info is Key, Haverdasher, Durk's, Garrison's, Ringleader, Baudry, Smuggler's, Stealthy.

The Lighthouse may get missed entirely as it's out of the way!
Butcher's tends to get hit last!



Who's "standard progression" are you talking about? Because its not mine.

If you simply follow the path of all the level 2 quests, you go in a nice circle around the harbour.

[Vellrad]

Newbies should learn that (by default) M is for map, and gold challices are quest givers. No need to place all questgivers in one tight space, especially that its non convinient for vets.

[Vellrad]

Of the only qualms I see thus far might be Proof is in the Poison. At Normal, it can be a pretty difficult quest, but it's deceptively and...erm...positively?...EVIL at Elite. Even with a decent party to work with, you can have a complete wipe thanks to the bunch of casters around and the massive acid pits.

Something around N6/H7/E8 or N5/H7/E9 would fit it better, and maybe make it give unique named loot. As of now, the only real reason why to take it is because of the great XP for its level, but it's not...say, the Pit, which has other incentives aside from its great XP. An Eternal Wand of Melf's Acid Arrow would be pretty awesome, though the amount of uses should differ (8-10 charges, recover all with rest). Lots of loot related to the Quickfoot would be pretty nice.

Its actually easy quest, if everyone got shield or nigthshield.
Hovewer, clickies are usually out of newbies' reach, because they tendt to cost a lot (from newbies' point of viev).

[redspecter23]

No, No, No!

I like 3 Barrel Cove just the way it is thank you very much!

Yes I've made small changes to the quest levels BUT NOT 10 Levels worth!

I was suggesting a second version as well as keeping the one as it is right now. I'm wondering if you misread or of you're against two versions of 3bc, similar to epic and non epic versions of many packs currently. I understand many players do like 3bc even if it's not something I enjoy at all. That's why I suggested to keep what is there currently and add a second version for higher level player.

[FranOhmsford]

Of the only qualms I see thus far might be Proof is in the Poison. At Normal, it can be a pretty difficult quest, but it's deceptively and...erm...positively?...EVIL at Elite. Even with a decent party to work with, you can have a complete wipe thanks to the bunch of casters around and the massive acid pits.

Something around N6/H7/E8 or N5/H7/E9 would fit it better, and maybe make it give unique named loot. As of now, the only real reason why to take it is because of the great XP for its level, but it's not...say, the Pit, which has other incentives aside from its great XP. An Eternal Wand of Melf's Acid Arrow would be pretty awesome, though the amount of uses should differ (8-10 charges, recover all with rest). Lots of loot related to the Quickfoot would be pretty nice.

I've moved Proof from 4-5.

As a Lvl 5-7 Elite BB it would still be an Extreme Challenge quest for most Pugs.
As a 6-8 the Extreme Challenge would be gone and it would be just another Lvl 6 quest.

I've also moved a number of Lvl 5 quests to Lvl 6 and frankly I've overpopulated Lvl 6.