Did i miss the memo?

[chrisgina39]

ok so i decided to make another healer character to help with the lack of healer problem on the servers. Given i had just got druid i decided to go with them well 15 level in and iv NEVER been expected to heal and its not like i named him "iwillnotheal" or something similar and im a pure druid not a 8/7 fighter split but when ever i enter a party as the 2nd to last person its always a case of "ok all we need now is a healer"
I'm not complaining but its like if i was a mafia member and i asked someone "wheres the money" and they then gave me the money im not complaining but i was expecting to have to beat it out of someone. So was there a memo everyone got that said "druids are not healers in heroic levels"

BTW i love playing druids having fire wall and heal before was only for "the old ones" the mages and clerics that managed to survive on almost pure gimp

__________________________________________________ ______________________ any thing past here is unrelated i wrote it for fun


Plus i was doing elite ghost and at the end everyone but me was dead i managed to beat him with word of balance so i got to laugh in their faces while i raised them(one was out of my range), though i had to stop after the 3rd day of raising them as my throat started to hurt. After the tenth day they were all raised.
but we had no way out of the frozen abyss. We noticed a chest below some ice. One of the 4 kobalts i was with tried to get to it, but he froze when he touched the wall near it(its a bit cold down here). The other kobalts were getting hungry and asked some thing unthinkable. After i explained why we WOULDN'T do that(with fire and threatening to banish him to a plane of pure suffering if he ever said anything like that again).
We decided we would eat the doom sphere that only spoke of defeating the abbot and wouldn't give us a way out. After getting a vorpal ghost touch dagger from out frozen friend i asked who wanted to do it they told me to since i was the only one with SP and a way to heal negative levels sadly i didn't read the stats right and i ended up decapitating one of them since i dumped DEX.
The 2 kobalts jump at the opportunity starting eating him i said "you do realize i can raise him right?" one of them said "great can you raise him as a tomato this could use some ketchup".

Day 50 only me and one kobolt remains the abbot is about to begin his ascension the last kobolt asked "hey if you are a druid then can you not just change into a bird and fly out of here?"

So i did to this day you can still here him weeping and screams echoing from the caverns saying "kobolts still hate you!"

[psykopeta]

yup, noobs think that druid's aren't healers
and noobs need dedicated healers for heroic quests
and noobs think that sorcs can't cc
and noobs are looking for a tank & trapper for every quest in ddo

it's all but noobs

if as druid can heal 5 melees (not fighter nor paladins rofl) in mired in kobolds at lvl and succeed in the quest and the opt, guess druids are healers

but like i said before, it's all but noobs, healer doesn't exist in ddo rofl

EDIT: notice i said noobs, no newbies, a noob can be playing since 2006 and don't want to learn yet, that's what makes him/her a noob

[Charononus]

Just wait to hear the party leaders shock when you tell them they don't need a healer, you've got it covered for ee. Honestly though, most druids either are built so that healing is really bad or are really bad as a player at healing.

[chrisgina39]

Just wait to hear the party leaders shock when you tell them they don't need a healer, you've got it covered for ee. Honestly though, most druids either are built so that healing is really bad or are really bad as a player at healing.
i looked at some druid builds and i see what you mean O_o

yesh by the standard the builds are working by putting a point in umd for cure minor wounds wand would be considered a healer spec and to think i built my character around the idea i would be healing of course given the amount of points seasons herald takes -_-

now im in the mood to do the unthinkable make a BATTLE CLERIC!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cIBD22RhUE

[GlorifyQuC]

It's simply because druids are overall terrible main healers, but relatively decent complimentary healers. Mass negative levels and negative stats is impossible for you to mend, you cannot burst out AoE heals efficiently, and if you fall behind the curve your HoTs can't keep up.


yup, noobs think that druid's aren't healers
and noobs need dedicated healers for heroic quests
and noobs think that sorcs can't cc
and noobs are looking for a tank & trapper for every quest in ddo

Pretty blanket statement, but essentially druids are not healers. They can not heal efficiently.
Go run an elite enter the kobold at level on something without evasion and let me know how that goes for you.
First life sorcs have an abhorrent ability to CC and an even worse time instant-killing.
I very rarely see people looking for a tank, same for trapping, even in the most noob filled PUGs. Only times traps are a concern is when it's a trap quest, like shadow knight or tear.

[Charononus]

It's simply because druids are overall terrible main healers, but relatively decent complimentary healers. Mass negative levels
available in mass and single target http://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate

and negative stats is impossible for you to mend,
http://ddowiki.com/page/Lesser_Restoration available to you as a potion, I won't cure stat damage to you on a cleric, it's every players job to have their own potions, a "healer" takes care of your spike damage in combat that's it

you cannot burst out AoE heals efficiently, and if you fall behind the curve your HoTs can't keep up.
My regens tick for about 150+ on a non crit before healing amp. If you can't survive on 150+ every 2 secs you need to reevaluate how you are playing because you're taking way to much damage and don't deserve a completion. The exceptions to this are some ee bosses, for instance the glaberzou at the end of deal and demon required me to toss some single target heals on whoever had aggro as well as mass regen.



Pretty blanket statement, but essentially druids are not healers. They can not heal efficiently.
They heal very efficiently but can not carry people to a completion with mass heal, big difference.


Go run an elite enter the kobold at level on something without evasion and let me know how that goes for you. I've done it, I've also done it as byoh, next.


First life sorcs have an abhorrent ability to CC and an even worse time instant-killing. a wizard has better dc's from more feats, but web usually works great on most mobs, and it doesn't need spell pen. Now if you are talking ee well yeah, but heroic content, please.


I very rarely see people looking for a tank, same for trapping, even in the most noob filled PUGs. Only times traps are a concern is when it's a trap quest, like shadow knight or tear. I don't see it often but I've seen lfms up for need tanks ext when there are 3 barbs in the quest so while it's not that common it happens often enough.

[chrisgina39]

It's simply because druids are overall terrible main healers, but relatively decent complimentary healers. Mass negative levels and negative stats is impossible for you to mend, you cannot burst out AoE heals efficiently, and if you fall behind the curve your HoTs can't keep up.



Pretty blanket statement, but essentially druids are not healers. They can not heal efficiently.
Go run an elite enter the kobold at level on something without evasion and let me know how that goes for you.
First life sorcs have an abhorrent ability to CC and an even worse time instant-killing.
I very rarely see people looking for a tank, same for trapping, even in the most noob filled PUGs. Only times traps are a concern is when it's a trap quest, like shadow knight or tear.
most of this is invalidated by http://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate,_Mass
as for sorcs CC there role is more nuke based but in most content they can CC but wizards will have the edge

[Archangel666]

i looked at some druid builds and i see what you mean O_o

yesh by the standard the builds are working by putting a point in umd for cure minor wounds wand would be considered a healer spec and to think i built my character around the idea i would be healing of course given the amount of points seasons herald takes -_-

now im in the mood to do the unthinkable make a BATTLE CLERIC!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cIBD22RhUE

The reason why a lot of Druids are spending points in UMD, has nothing to do with "Cure Minor Wounds Wands".

It has to do with using Raise Dead Scrolls.

Why?

Because the only res spell that Druids get is Reincarnate, and it is so slow to cast that even when Quickened cannot be used in Part Four of The Shroud to res people.

[Charononus]

The reason why a lot of Druids are spending points in UMD, has nothing to do with "Cure Minor Wounds Wands".

It has to do with using Raise Dead Scrolls.

Why?

Because the only res spell that Druids get is Reincarnate, and it is so slow to cast that even when Quickened cannot be used in Part Four of The Shroud to res people.

Yeah reincarnate is the big con of healing as a druid your raises suck, and can further debuff players, it's so much fun when you give a wiz for example horc reincarnate and nerf their dc's.

[chrisgina39]

The reason why a lot of Druids are spending points in UMD, has nothing to do with "Cure Minor Wounds Wands".

It has to do with using Raise Dead Scrolls.

Why?

Because the only res spell that Druids get is Reincarnate, and it is so slow to cast that even when Quickened cannot be used in Part Four of The Shroud to res people.
That was actually a joke on my first character back in some year i added a level of cleric to use that wand so i could heal. this was on a wis speced ranger/rogue
I wasn't aware alot druids put points into UMD
and to think i used them for swim actually now that i think about it the main reason i made the druid was due to the awesome swim so i could be one with the fish.

and why wouldn't you use the CMW wand? i healed many groups though quest with that! btw what does BYOH mean?:D

(and no thats not a real question)

[Hendrik]

It's simply because druids are overall terrible main healers, but relatively decent complimentary healers. Mass negative levels and negative stats is impossible for you to mend, you cannot burst out AoE heals efficiently, and if you fall behind the curve your HoTs can't keep up.



Well, except the TWO spells druid has to take care of that, single target and mass versions too.

[Archangel666]

That was actually a joke on my first character back in some year i added a level of cleric to use that wand so i could heal. this was on a wis speced ranger/rogue
I wasn't aware alot druids put points into UMD
and to think i used them for swim actually now that i think about it the main reason i made the druid was due to the awesome swim so i could be one with the fish.

and why wouldn't you use the CMW wand? i healed many groups though quest with that! btw what does BYOH mean?:D

(and no thats not a real question)

Hey, I'm not knocking the Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds. It heals my Monk for 6 HP per tick. :D

[susiedupfer]

It's simply because druids are overall terrible main healers, but relatively decent complimentary healers. Mass negative levels and negative stats is impossible for you to mend, you cannot burst out AoE heals efficiently, and if you fall behind the curve your HoTs can't keep up.

Actually, Mass Regenerate does indeed fix neg levels, unlike Mass Heal, which does not. A cleric or FVS would have to cast Greater Restoration to remove negative levels. INDIVIDUAL Greater Restoration, as there is NO mass spell for that. Advantage: Druid.

Also, Mass Regenerate is an instant cast, unlike Mass Heal. Advantage: Druid.


Pretty blanket statement, but essentially druids are not healers. They can not heal efficiently.

Actually, having played Clerics, FVS, and Druids, Druids are MUCH more efficient. My first favorite class was Clerics. I really did not want to like Druids this much.

Go run an elite enter the kobold at level on something without evasion and let me know how that goes for you.

How about YOU go run elite ETK on a Cleric, FVS, and Druid at level without evasion(which clerics and FVS rarely have), and let me know how that goes for you? I have done that on all three classes, and it does not go well for anyone without evasion. Period.

First life sorcs have an abhorrent ability to CC and an even worse time instant-killing.
I very rarely see people looking for a tank, same for trapping, even in the most noob filled PUGs. Only times traps are a concern is when it's a trap quest, like shadow knight or tear.

I really do wish people would go play the classes they post so freely about on these forums before they make statements about them.

To the OP: Druids make fine healers. Rezzers, not so much. The problem with public perception is twofold at the current time.

The first issue is that there are so very many different ways to build and play druids, that few people(even people who play druids, sometimes) are aware of their full capabilities right now. I raid heal, quest heal and CC on the same toon. This confuses people. Even people I quest and raid with frequently. They call me "duct tape". Meaning I can do so many different things that I pretty much just do whatever needs doing at that moment. You have to teach people what YOU are capable of.

The second issue is that some people equate the ability to rez quickly with healing. Those are two separate issues. But, to be perfectly honest, those people are not ones you WANT depending on you for sole healing/rezzing. They usually require LOTS of both. You know what I mean.

[unbongwah]

There are a few major drawbacks to playing a druid healer:


No Mass Cures / Heals nor Remove Curse; only get Lesser Restoration
No Raise Dead or Resurrection; Reincarnate is hella slow, even w/Quicken
Don't get the healing perks that Radiant Servants do (i.e., auras, bursts, free boost to Emp Heal) nor the deep SP pool of FvS
No Wand & Scroll Mastery enhs; so while you can scroll-Heal, you're worse at it than even a properly specced rogue, ironically

What's nice about being a druid healer:


The HoTs are more SP-efficient than Cure / Heal (I think)
Season's Heralds get Spring Resurgence, a free spammable AoE heal which auto-triggers if target drops below half-HPs
Nature's Warriors get free temp SPs from Shrike / Turtle to help power spells (20 SPs is enough to cover Mass Vigor, I think)
Regenerate heals ability point damage, level drain, and bleed effects
Earthquake is great AoE CC and druids get some nice DoTs that cleric / FvS don't (Creeping Cold, Ice Storm, Storm of Vengeance, Body of the Sun, etc.)

IMHO, being a good druid healer requires a different mindset from cleric / FvS. You rely on HoTs more than burst heals, so you have to be better at being proactive and anticipating what's to come. In a sense, you want to cast Vigor / Regen just before they're needed, rather than wait until the waste product has hit the rotating blades. Likewise, just as a good cleric / FvS knows when to use Cometfall or Greater Command to control the battlefield, so too does a druid need to use Earthquake. And one minor advantage to being a druid healer vs cleric is you don't need to stick as close to the frontlines, since you have no auras / bursts which keep you close to the melees.

[danotmano1998]

It's all about perception.

Only drawbacks to healing on the druid have been gone over here already.

1. Slow rez. Like, so slow I still think it's a bug or a bad joke.
2. No mass heal.
3. No scroll enhancements.

But druids have many roles they can fill, and it entirely depends on the way they are built as to how/if they can "effectively" heal. With a devotion item and a few enhancements into the positive line, they can do very well. However, if they aren't built for it and don't have the gear, they will be limited, especially in the higher difficulties.

Which is probably the single best reason why most people don't expect a druid to be a competent healer. Simply put, there are too many variations of druid to reasonably expect a pug player to be able to solo heal a difficult quest/raid, especially in an average pug situation.

At least, that's my perception of them.

[GlorifyQuC]

available in mass and single target http://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate

http://ddowiki.com/page/Lesser_Restoration available to you as a potion, I won't cure stat damage to you on a cleric, it's every players job to have their own potions, a "healer" takes care of your spike damage in combat that's it

My regens tick for about 150+ on a non crit before healing amp. If you can't survive on 150+ every 2 secs you need to reevaluate how you are playing because you're taking way to much damage and don't deserve a completion. The exceptions to this are some ee bosses, for instance the glaberzou at the end of deal and demon required me to toss some single target heals on whoever had aggro as well as mass regen.


They heal very efficiently but can not carry people to a completion with mass heal, big difference.
I've done it, I've also done it as byoh, next.
a wizard has better dc's from more feats, but web usually works great on most mobs, and it doesn't need spell pen. Now if you are talking ee well yeah, but heroic content, please.
I don't see it often but I've seen lfms up for need tanks ext when there are 3 barbs in the quest so while it's not that common it happens often enough.

Very defensive on the subject, which is never a good sign when speaking of balance and viability. Anyways, regeneration heals 2 ability damage every 2 seconds, this is garbage when faced with mass amounts of party wide or single target ability damage. Lesser pots cannot quickly cure 10+, 20+, 30+ stat damage which can accumulate in seconds. 1 negative level every 3 seconds is pretty garbage when it can be applied quicker than you can remove it to multiple party members.

By efficient, when regarding druid heals, I did not mean mana efficient. Though, any amount of mana efficiency gained is garnered lost when you have to single target cast death ward on the entire party for certain quests since they don't have it. Or is it everyone's job to have every single clicky in the game in that regards as well? In any case, it's quite impossible to burst heal on a druid except for on a single target, which is very detrimental unless you run with a single melee and a bunch of casters, in that case it would be mildly appropriate. You simply cannot keep a group of melees up against any cleaving mob, for example, the skeleton EE PoP. Another problem is the low mana pool druids are given and the lack of healing effects that can be done without expending mana. Clerics have aura, bursts, fvs naturally have MUCH higher mana pools, druids have slightly more efficient mana per heal spells but garner the REQUIREMENT of having vigor+regen up in any difficult content, thus destroying any form of mana efficiency.

Sorcs cannot CC very well first life nor can they instant-kill efficiently, this is fact, even in heroic content. Second lives, sure. First life? Unless you sacrifice the majority of your potential through nuking you aren't hitting the DCs or the spell pen.

Like, since I've come back, ~3 months leveling in all content including EE I've not seen a single applicable 'we need a tank'.

On the last note, I find that divines and apparently through you druids seem to have this false sense that everyone is supposed to be entirely self-sufficient. This actually just happened to me. Playing a barb, literally just made it, only had time to go to the house J shop for pots(no lesser resto) before the 'TRs at work' deleras group wanted to get started. So I went in, already noticing that the 36 point build TRs in my group were horrid beyond imagination, but either way no one was really dying and the content was smoothed over by the fact that I was capable of carrying even bad TR players. Never once did I require a heal or a restore for my rage, but, halfway into deleras2 I get a neg level and ask the 7/2 fvs/rogue for a restore. Well, he can't restore, so he lesser restores me and I say whatever and continue on. (This level 9 36 point, apparently 10th life, player was incapable of soloing the optional rooms in deleras 1 elite, if that gives you a brief glimpse into how blatantly garbage he was). In any case, I raged, hit fatigue and since lesser restos are only sold in marketplace I asked for a restore and this 2 kill(to my 90, the TR rangers who were -at work-'s 20s) had the audacity to tell me he was not my heal bot.

Forget the fact he'd not thrown me a single heal, had 2 kills to my 90, and I was outkilling the entire group of 36 point TRs. So when I brought it up in voice calmly, I was met with 'enjoy soloing 3 and 4'. Whatever, I left before 2 finished, and redid 2/3/4 before they even finished 3.

The point of that long winded story, healers should man the **** up and stop *****ing that everyone doesn't have every potion/clicky in the game for every situation. Players may not have had time/money to buy them, find them, or whatever reason. You're a divine, you will -never- out damage a barbarian. This isn't to say you're a slave to damage dealers, but man the **** up and do your job.

[Charononus]

Very defensive on the subject, which is never a good sign when speaking of balance and viability. Anyways, regeneration heals 2 ability damage every 2 seconds, this is garbage when faced with mass amounts of party wide or single target ability damage. Lesser pots cannot quickly cure 10+, 20+, 30+ stat damage which can accumulate in seconds. 1 negative level every 3 seconds is pretty garbage when it can be applied quicker than you can remove it to multiple party members.

By efficient, when regarding druid heals, I did not mean mana efficient. Though, any amount of mana efficiency gained is garnered lost when you have to single target cast death ward on the entire party for certain quests since they don't have it. Or is it everyone's job to have every single clicky in the game in that regards as well? In any case, it's quite impossible to burst heal on a druid except for on a single target, which is very detrimental unless you run with a single melee and a bunch of casters, in that case it would be mildly appropriate. You simply cannot keep a group of melees up against any cleaving mob, for example, the skeleton EE PoP. Another problem is the low mana pool druids are given and the lack of healing effects that can be done without expending mana. Clerics have aura, bursts, fvs naturally have MUCH higher mana pools, druids have slightly more efficient mana per heal spells but garner the REQUIREMENT of having vigor+regen up in any difficult content, thus destroying any form of mana efficiency.

Sorcs cannot CC very well first life nor can they instant-kill efficiently, this is fact, even in heroic content. Second lives, sure. First life? Unless you sacrifice the majority of your potential through nuking you aren't hitting the DCs or the spell pen.

Like, since I've come back, ~3 months leveling in all content including EE I've not seen a single applicable 'we need a tank'.

On the last note, I find that divines and apparently through you druids seem to have this false sense that everyone is supposed to be entirely self-sufficient. This actually just happened to me. Playing a barb, literally just made it, only had time to go to the house J shop for pots(no lesser resto) before the 'TRs at work' deleras group wanted to get started. So I went in, already noticing that the 36 point build TRs in my group were horrid beyond imagination, but either way no one was really dying and the content was smoothed over by the fact that I was capable of carrying even bad TR players. Never once did I require a heal or a restore for my rage, but, halfway into deleras2 I get a neg level and ask the 7/2 fvs/rogue for a restore. Well, he can't restore, so he lesser restores me and I say whatever and continue on. (This level 9 36 point, apparently 10th life, player was incapable of soloing the optional rooms in deleras 1 elite, if that gives you a brief glimpse into how blatantly garbage he was). In any case, I raged, hit fatigue and since lesser restos are only sold in marketplace I asked for a restore and this 2 kill(to my 90, the TR rangers who were -at work-'s 20s) had the audacity to tell me he was not my heal bot.

Forget the fact he'd not thrown me a single heal, had 2 kills to my 90, and I was outkilling the entire group of 36 point TRs. So when I brought it up in voice calmly, I was met with 'enjoy soloing 3 and 4'. Whatever, I left before 2 finished, and redid 2/3/4 before they even finished 3.

The point of that long winded story, healers should man the **** up and stop *****ing that everyone doesn't have every potion/clicky in the game for every situation. Players may not have had time/money to buy them, find them, or whatever reason. You're a divine, you will -never- out damage a barbarian. This isn't to say you're a slave to damage dealers, but man the **** up and do your job.

Please go play wow or whatever standard mmo you want if you want a healbot. You should have lesser restore pots especially to clear fatigue. No I'm not saying you should have every clicky in the game but honestly, I think you did that group a favor, if it had been me I would have dropped and reformed around you as you are the type of player I try to avoid by either not pugging or putting up byoh groups. As far as your 30 pts of stat damage a second, I'd love to see where in the world you're getting that as I've never seen that kind of stat damage and I've ran everything but the titan raid on elite.

[Pape_27]

Advantage: Druid

Totally bogus. In terms of a heal specced character, there is no way the druid ever has the advantage in terms of healing vs a cleric. Maybe a fvs because of a limited spell selection, but never a cleric.


Can a druid be an effective healer? sure can.

Problem is most people don't play them as healers in my experience. That's why people tend to look askance when its suggested.

[Wipey]

Never once did I require a heal or a restore for my rage, but, halfway into deleras2 I get a neg level and ask the 7/2 fvs/rogue for a restore. Well, he can't restore, so he lesser restores me and I say whatever and continue on. (This level 9 36 point, apparently 10th life, player was incapable of soloing the optional rooms in deleras 1 elite, if that gives you a brief glimpse into how blatantly garbage he was). In any case, I raged, hit fatigue and since lesser restos are only sold in marketplace I asked for a restore and this 2 kill(to my 90, the TR rangers who were -at work-'s 20s) had the audacity to tell me he was not my heal bot.
7 fvs can't have restore or dw. Heck even pure 9 ( or level 11 ) fvs usually don't have any healing spell, restore or dw. Holy smite, fom. Cure serious pots ( yeah even on fvs, because those are plenty enough for anything elite until Sands or whatever ), heal scrolls later. DW, same thing, no slots for it, carry 2 -3 dw clickies ( yes even on fvs ).
Asking for lesser restore ( a spell that no fvs carry, because there are pots for that ) for barbarian fatigue ? ...
You "might" get a burst bullying a newbie cleric though.


The point of that long winded story, healers should man the **** up and stop *****ing that everyone doesn't have every potion/clicky in the game for every situation. Players may not have had time/money to buy them, find them, or whatever reason. You're a divine, you will -never- out damage a barbarian. This isn't to say you're a slave to damage dealers, but man the **** up and do your job.
I need more signature space !

[Daemoneyes]

Please go play wow or whatever standard mmo you want if you want a healbot. You should have lesser restore pots especially to clear fatigue. No I'm not saying you should have every clicky in the game but honestly, I think you did that group a favor, if it had been me I would have dropped and reformed around you as you are the type of player I try to avoid by either not pugging or putting up byoh groups. As far as your 30 pts of stat damage a second, I'd love to see where in the world you're getting that as I've never seen that kind of stat damage and I've ran everything but the titan raid on elite.

You dont need a healbot but you definitely want someone who can cure stat damage in some of the quests.
Lesser resto pots dont let you keep up with the draining and no first lifer can get enough Resto pots.
And no its not 30 stat damage per second but 10 damage per pot cooldown still lets you go incap very fast.

[Charononus]

You dont need a healbot but you definitely want someone who can cure stat damage in some of the quests.
Lesser resto pots dont let you keep up with the draining and no first lifer can get enough Resto pots.
And no its not 30 stat damage per second but 10 damage per pot cooldown still lets you go incap very fast.

Funny that I don't have that problem then even on a barb.

[Tuney]

I'm with the group on Druid healing being very effective. They unlike a Cleric/FVS able to power heal though 'stupid' ammounts of damage. My two primary healers are a Bard and a Druid ,Have played as a fvs healer.

At lower levels , A druid healing isn't very effective using the HoT but once you get Greater Vigor and Regenerate they cover a lot of your healing needs but this is only my point of view from one run from 1 to 25. For healing , I only have Greater vigor , Regenerate with both mass versons , Heal and Panacea. Why the Panacea you may ask, to remove an assortment of things with out using Heal. I can keep a lot of EE groups up using just Mass Regenerate , sometimes I throw in a Mass greater vigor or just spot with Heal.

Druids being able to heal is like a Bard able to heal. For them to do it very well requires them to build for it. Like the bard , they have so many options to focus on and general 'welcome mat' people have to the other healers might make it easier for a druid to not get enough healing power but to just to self heal.

[Daemoneyes]

Funny that I don't have that problem then even on a barb.

Must be nice to not get con drained in Ghosts of Perdition,
oh wait you also get drained there. :eek:
On a TR, sure lots of stuff to prevent drain but on first lifer or without that gear?
No.
At least not without investing a healthy sum of money into spell absorb items.

[Enoach]

Druid's healing abilities are mysterious to the player base as a Bard's healing ability. Clerics have been making a name for themselves since the game started (which is part of the stigma many have to overcome when they don't want the primary role of party healer)

My personal feeling is that between levels 1 to 6 the best Party "healer" is actually the Artificer because of Cure Admixture and their tendency to spend most of their time behind the front line using their crossbow/runearm. This is because of the Potion Enhancements they get and the ability to have a "Mass Cure" ability making it more efficient.

FVS are limited in their spell selection due to not having Cure spells "Automatically" available as well as receiving spells one level later than their cleric cousins.

Bards also have a limited healing ability but do get mass cures later on. Their UMD ability as well as songs from a Vert can help trickle in healing over time, or a Spell Singer can help by having SP even on longer quests.

The basic problem is that so many don't understand that even a level 15 quest on elite can be solo healed by a Paladin, I've personally done this in Delirium with no deaths. I've also been the only one standing in ETK's Final Fight on Elite while both the Rogue and Monk got pounded into the ground and I don't have evasion and also did not have a PLIS at the time. This can be done with knowledge of how to make that fight work in your favor. Evasion should make that fight easier and for some it does, others not so much.

What I'm tired of is the attitude that BYOH means we don't look out for each other - that was not it's initial intent. Its initial intent was to foster an environment where people are prepared for the quest and prepared to cure themselves and prepared to help others also survive. Too many stop at the prepared to self heal and forget to prepare to help others part.

Also, different groups require different levels of healing and this is less dependent on the builds as the player behind them. I've run even Epic Elite Quests with groups where my healing abilities was a benefit but not something leaned on - I guess I could say I was more "Insurance: something we have and hope never to have to use". I've been in others were I was much more needed.

[Pilgrim1]

Having played both a druid and a FvS I will say that if I had to pick mass heal or mass regenerate I would pick mass regenerate.

Druids lack the deep mana pool of a fvs or the radiant servant bursts of a cleric, but until they run out of manna they are better healers than FvS or clerics.

[buddabopp]

i have found through playing a druid specced for cc and healing i can get 2700 sp on an 18/2 split and through creative healing can easily keep parties up during EE with the only problems coming from people who arent properly set up for EE content ie only heavy fort.

also for all those who think druids need a crutch because they dont have mass heal then just go EA destiny and grab divine wrath it heals comparatively to mass heal when maxed and emped costs 30 sp and is crazy easily charged on a druid (sunburst a group of mobs to prime then just using it on a party will nearly recharge it).

[moriedhel]

People don't really look to druids as healers or ask them to heal because just like bards, to dependently heal others you have to build for it (though maybe to a lesser extent than bards have to specialize). And honestly not many druids do. So people aren't used to seeing druid healers.

Also early game healing on a druid is not quite enough, you either need burst there for people that are not prepared/knowledgeable, or you don't really need any at all because guild buffs/pots/wands/PLIS/invulnerability will cover any experienced player. One other thing though, once you get earthquake if you are a caster, it's much more sp efficient and safe in 90% of the time to just CC the mobs with EQ than to try healing through the damage they would do if you let them fight.

[Mubjon]

On the last note, I find that divines and apparently through you druids seem to have this false sense that everyone is supposed to be entirely self-sufficient. This actually just happened to me. Playing a barb, literally just made it, only had time to go to the house J shop for pots(no lesser resto) before the 'TRs at work' deleras group wanted to get started. So I went in, already noticing that the 36 point build TRs in my group were horrid beyond imagination, but either way no one was really dying and the content was smoothed over by the fact that I was capable of carrying even bad TR players. Never once did I require a heal or a restore for my rage, but, halfway into deleras2 I get a neg level and ask the 7/2 fvs/rogue for a restore. Well, he can't restore, so he lesser restores me and I say whatever and continue on. (This level 9 36 point, apparently 10th life, player was incapable of soloing the optional rooms in deleras 1 elite, if that gives you a brief glimpse into how blatantly garbage he was). In any case, I raged, hit fatigue and since lesser restos are only sold in marketplace I asked for a restore and this 2 kill(to my 90, the TR rangers who were -at work-'s 20s) had the audacity to tell me he was not my heal bot.

Forget the fact he'd not thrown me a single heal, had 2 kills to my 90, and I was outkilling the entire group of 36 point TRs. So when I brought it up in voice calmly, I was met with 'enjoy soloing 3 and 4'. Whatever, I left before 2 finished, and redid 2/3/4 before they even finished 3.

The point of that long winded story, healers should man the **** up and stop *****ing that everyone doesn't have every potion/clicky in the game for every situation. Players may not have had time/money to buy them, find them, or whatever reason. You're a divine, you will -never- out damage a barbarian. This isn't to say you're a slave to damage dealers, but man the **** up and do your job.

Or maybe Barbs should man up and keep a stack of lesser restore pots on hand at all times, also while you are at it. Neutralize poison, cure disease, remove curse are all must have pots. Do not need a full stack, 50 will do for each quest. If you drop below that, go and get more before starting quest.

If by level 9 you cannot afford at minimum 50 of each of those 4 pots to have on hand all the time, then you are doing something horribly wrong.

On my divines I never carry those spells that can be purchased in pot form as i carry the House K pots to use and save my mana. I do carry greater restore scrolls to use on those that are worthy, by your tone I can tell you would not be worthy of my plat nor SP.

[Mubjon]

People don't really look to druids as healers or ask them to heal because just like bards, to dependently heal others you have to build for it (though maybe to a lesser extent than bards have to specialize). And honestly not many druids do. So people aren't used to seeing druid healers.

Also early game healing on a druid is not quite enough, you either need burst there for people that are not prepared/knowledgeable, or you don't really need any at all because guild buffs/pots/wands/PLIS/invulnerability will cover any experienced player. One other thing though, once you get earthquake if you are a caster, it's much more sp efficient and safe in 90% of the time to just CC the mobs with EQ than to try healing through the damage they would do if you let them fight.

That is why druid is fast becoming my favorite class. I can actually play the game without having someone tell me that I should stand back and pick my nose waiting for them to take damage.

[Archangel666]

In my opinion, Druids when built for it are respectable at healing, though not exceptional in that role.

Some players can get more out of Healing abilities than others and can push the envelope a bit more than others, but I still think that Druids have three Achilles Heels.

Lack of a response to high spike damage.

Regen spells don't mesh with the spells the Divines use.

Reincarnate.

Regen and Mass Regen are very good spells, and can heal someone to full quite quickly, but when damage is spiking as it can in some of the higher difficulties it can be insufficient. The worst part of this for me is that I have a few Scrolls of Cure Critical Wounds, Mass sitting in my Druid's bank taunting me. If you look at the scroll it says no UMD for CLR 15, FVS 16, DRD 17 (Something like that, working from memory), so why isn't it in the Druid's Spellbook? An Empowered or Maximized Mass Cure Crit would serve the purpose of dealing with high spike damage while the Mass Regens would remove neg levels, stat damage etc.

Regens really don't mesh with Divines spells. Most of the time you'll cast a spell on someone who's taken damage and if they were left alone for a couple of seconds they'd be back at full HP. The problem is that the majority of your time you'll cast the spell (Costing you Spell Points) and a second later a Divine in the group will throw them a Heal (Costing them Spell Points). Your throwing the regen is what made the Divine notice the player with low HP, but Druids are still too new and they (Divine players) don't as a general rule understand that just because you didn't fill their HP within a milisecond of casting your spell on them, doesn't mean that the spell wasn't effective. It simply means that you need to give it a second or two.

Reincarnate. Enough said.

[FranOhmsford]

7 fvs can't have restore or dw. Heck even pure 9 ( or level 11 ) fvs usually don't have any healing spell, restore or dw. Holy smite, fom. Cure serious pots ( yeah even on fvs, because those are plenty enough for anything elite until Sands or whatever ), heal scrolls later. DW, same thing, no slots for it, carry 2 -3 dw clickies ( yes even on fvs ).
Asking for lesser restore ( a spell that no fvs carry, because there are pots for that ) for barbarian fatigue ? ...
You "might" get a burst bullying a newbie cleric though.

I need more signature space !

Spot on about the Restoration/DW - A Lvl 7 FS would have to use SCROLLS here - You NEED these at Lvl 7 = You provide the Scrolls OR ask the CLERIC!

As for the rest of your post - Eurggh - That would be an insta-squelch from me!

Carry 2-3 DW Clickies? Really? On a 1st Life?
Visors are NOT Guaranteed End Rewards!
And even if they were you'd do well to Run Splinterskull 3 Times and Still be Lvl 9 or Lower at the end {unless you ran nothing else that is!}.
TRing it's a Once and Done!

Cure Mod at least should be on your bar {and I'd personally be carrying Cure Serious at Lvl 7 {Yes FoM/DW/Restoration make Cure Crit an issue WHEN YOU HIT LVL 8!}.

Lvl 2 Divine Spells that are useful to a FavSoul:
Resist Energy {Not everyone has Lvl 60+ Ships!}
Cure Mod
Lesser Resto
Soundburst {Until Holy Smite becomes available - Lvl 4 is a female Dog to FvSouls! Prob best just to wait for BB.}.
Hold Person {I'd stick with Command Until better option came up frankly}

A 7th Lvl FvS can choose 3 of these!
If you can't fit in Cure Mod then take Cure Serious as soon as you hit Lvl 6!

Elite Deleras can actually do some nasty Spike Dmg at Lvl you know.

And btw - The Person you quoted was at pains to mention that He/she got NEGGED {That was why they wanted Resto NOT Fatigue!}.
Yes he/she did contradict this later in their post {and he/she needs to learn what lvl certain spells are actually available {Not Scrolls - You don't want to buy pots then don't expect the Divine to buy scrolls either!}.


You want to NOT take any Cures until Heal on a FvS = Please don't join Pugs! Stick to BYOH and it's Ilk OR Solo!

[Moltier]

Im pretty sure druids can heal many content with the right setup. What they lack is burst heals. When a non red named EE mob can hit for 300 aoe melee damage, or a rednamed for 400+, i just dont see how they can react that. 2-3 quick hits from those, and the mentioned 150/2sec will not do much. Spike damages happens from many sources, and if its aoe, thats no good for a druid.

Thats the reason why i dont expect heals from druids, but im happy if/when they do.

If the party takes low damage, a druid can easily solo heal anything.
But a good healer can deal with unexpected situations, when s**t hits the fan.
I have yet to see a druid solo healing raids (EEs too), or EE quests with an average group.

Of course just because i havent seen or heard about such a good druid, it doesnt mean it cant be done.

[susiedupfer]

*snip*
On the last note, I find that divines and apparently through you druids seem to have this false sense that everyone is supposed to be entirely self-sufficient.

The point of that long winded story, healers should man the **** up and stop *****ing that everyone doesn't have every potion/clicky in the game for every situation. Players may not have had time/money to buy them, find them, or whatever reason. You're a divine, you will -never- out damage a barbarian. This isn't to say you're a slave to damage dealers, but man the **** up and do your job.

It is attitudes just like this that drives people away from playing divines. You have yourself, and people like you, to thank for the current lack of people willing to play any sort of healing role. You need to go get yourself those clickies and pots and feel responsible for your own red bar. You also need to go play a cleric, a FVS, and a druid for a whole life each, and you can never, ever join any BYOH groups. THEN come back to these forums and be able to speak from PERSONAL experience.

Until then, I, and most others, will just view you as yet another mana sponge wanting to stay a mana sponge.

[psykopeta]

sooooooooooo
after 3 clr lives
3 fvs lives
(3 wiz and sorc, but don't count as healers XD)
actually 2nd druid life, can say calmly

druids are awesome healers

and 1st life sorc isn't good at cc? are u comparing it with 2nd and 3rd live sorc? where's the difference? the +1 evo or the 20 sp? lolmao?

soooo to the point where "druids aren't as good as clrs" depending the clr of course, 1 put ONLY 1 ap in healing, is a recquisite for the caster pre (you know, having a cc with evo dc is simply awesome), then some potceny item, because u know, having fire, ice and lightning effectivity changing with time (or depending mob/boss weakness) is kinda stressing having to swap gear

have crown of summer, nice boost to healing amp
regenerate and greater vigor, the ultimate healing spell, if you think that casting reactive healing spells is better than HoTs go play WoW, oh wait, even there best healers are with HoTs lol
druids haven't healing pre, yes, in fact i would like to see another pre as clr, my last life will be clr (i love turning undead) but man..clrs haven't enhancements to boost anything but healing and light, that's not fair

are clrs easier to play as healer bots? yes, they have enhancements for this or for light damage (or turning undead!! i (L) turning undead!! XD)
are clrs the most versatile divine class? nope
well played clrs and druids, who are the best? i would say druids, but that needs some maths behind to demonstrate it, since i have no interest on it, will say that both are equal

EDIT: back, was too hungry to keep writing lol

etk elite at lvl? really? where's the trouble? ppl w/o using ice shield nor kiter? then doesn't matter if you are clr or gm, that's a wipe, the only useful a clr has for that quest w/o kiters and ice shields is heal mass, the rest are useless, and the aura too

with kiter but ppl w/o ice shield nor evasion? did as druid for my 1st run
with ice shield with 2 monks, 1 ranger and 1 rogue, w/o kiter? did as druid for my friend's 1st run

deaths? 0, was as easy to vigor mass + regenerate mass, thats near 200/2 secs, far more than u will receive with ice shield, just got crown of summer on me and tossing the heal spell on ranger

ppl who has never played a healer, or it's their first time using one, never should try to tell ppl wh are and who aren't healers, i've been playing as healer in all kind of mmorpg since... 8 years?

druids are awesome healers with 1/1/1 and with a potency item equipped, clrs w/o pre or fvs can't say the same

[hermespan]

yup, noobs think that druid's aren't healers
and noobs need dedicated healers for heroic quests
and noobs think that sorcs can't cc
and noobs are looking for a tank & trapper for every quest in ddo

it's all but noobs

if as druid can heal 5 melees (not fighter nor paladins rofl) in mired in kobolds at lvl and succeed in the quest and the opt, guess druids are healers

but like i said before, it's all but noobs, healer doesn't exist in ddo rofl

EDIT: notice i said noobs, no newbies, a noob can be playing since 2006 and don't want to learn yet, that's what makes him/her a noob

I haven't seen anyone run an at level quest in 2 lives. Usually it's 2+ above level people are running at. It's pretty inefficient, but that's what they do because they are "uber".

If you have a party full of dependent players in a quest 2 levels above the party (especially EE), a druid won't do so well as healer. You need an FvS for that. If you have a party full of self sufficient players, a druid will have no problems keeping them up in an at level quest.

There are too many variables to make sweeping generalizations about whether a given druid can heal or not. It depends on the intelligence of the group (just like it does for any type of healer), the gear the druid has and how the druid is built.

No one can heal stupid.

[hermespan]

The point of that long winded story, healers should man the **** up and stop *****ing that everyone doesn't have every potion/clicky in the game for every situation. Players may not have had time/money to buy them, find them, or whatever reason. You're a divine, you will -never- out damage a barbarian. This isn't to say you're a slave to damage dealers, but man the **** up and do your job.

...says the soul stone.

Here's the deal. Barbarians are Real Expensive(tm) to play. If you don't have money, run a less expensive class to level cap, and raid frequently to support your mana sponge. Don't expect other people to spend all their plat supporting you.

That's basically what you are telling us we need to do.

If you don't like it, don't play a barbarian. You'll get squelched/ignored real quick in my group talking that kind of smack. I'd rather have you drop because I don't need you there in the first place. It doesn't take 12k crits to finish a quest.