Set a monthly fee to play: wouldn't it be better?

[Belsogno]

I would like to see that introduced, in order for Turbine to get the necessary profit from that, rather than to see all the changes with the goal of getting as much money as they can.
I would rather to pay monthly (ok I am VIP, so i already do, but I mean mandatory for all) and see all the efforts aiming to improve the gameplay and the fun. I don't want to see any more greedy releases.

I don't like DDO still claiming to be a free game. Actually people already need to pay a lot in order to enjoy the game and in a couple of months they will have to do even more if the ASAH go forth.
The way the management has taken is, in my opinion, leading DDO to die.

[kierg10]

as a vip: NO!

see every other thread about this for why.

[Paleus]

I see that your join date, much like mine, comes right around the time that Turbine went from a monthly fee to play to a free to play model with premium features.

[Chai]

I agree with you that it helps keep the focus on the quality of the game as the enticing factor for people to keep paying, but...

Those days are over.

DDO used to be sub only from 2006-2009. In 2008 we got one content update in one year because ATARI did not want to invest more financially into the game. In 2009 after Turbine was granted rights to market the game, the f2p model was released.

Apparently you can use the word "free" if you market a game where no one has to pay, no matter how absurd it would be to play for free and be on the same level as those who do pay are.

[AZgreentea]

Yes, in the face of a major competitor coming to the market as F2P (NWO) Turbine should take a giant step back to the time when the game was slowly dying because there were not enough subscribers to fuel development. Sounds like a plan.

F2P with micro transactions is the way MMO's will be in the future, as a flip from the past norm. Games like the one that shall not be named will be the exception, and not the rule. Its not in Turbines best interest to go backwards, especially when they are personally responsible for making the F2P trend so incredibly popular.

[Thalmor]

Well I'm sure you suggestion would help solve some of the lag issues DDO has, as every Premium player ( Including myself) wouild stop playing DDO and move to someother free (free to download and play, but pay for premium services) game.

There are lots of games out there that use a similar model, introducing the a fee to play per month would bring in less money for turbine, thereby causing the game to suffer.

DDO is still a free game you can download the game for free and you don't ever have to pay a cent to play the game. I's sure there are example of people who have done this, and still are.

[Memnir]

The pure-subscription model has already failed DDO once, I don't see it coming back. Ever.

The Free label saved this game's posterior, and continues to bring in new players every day. I know many Free players that transitioned to Premium who transitioned to VIP.


Going back to subscription-only would be the death knell for this game.

[Impaqt]

Just about every MMO out there.... F2P, Subscription, Hybrid.. Doesnt matter, have "expansions" that need to be paid for outside of the "regular" form of payment a player chooses to partake in.

[9Crows]

greed is a very strong drug....nothing will abates its hunger but ever increasing profits

http://s18.postimg.org/yq3mwtzxl/1etetwx.jpg

[dunklezhan]

Just about every MMO out there.... F2P, Subscription, Hybrid.. Doesnt matter, have "expansions" that need to be paid for outside of the "regular" form of payment a player chooses to partake in.

True true... but none of those other games said that all you would ever have to pay if you subbed was your sub, and you would get ALL new content automatically. DDO did. And then they went back on it... and less than a year later they're doing it again? There's been what, 3 updates since the expansion came out? Year before the expansion there were at least 6, similar the year before that, and in the first year of F2P there were still four or five if you count the actual F2P launch which introduced IQ.

I don't actually mind paying for expansions myself and I have certainly enjoyed the last expansion's content and systems updates very much - but I'd much rather go back to constant new content every 2-3 months for another few years before they try to gouge me for another expansion. An expansion every 2 years is one thing. An expansion every year is just going to reduce the amount of free-to-VIP content and I didn't start paying a sub 18 months ago after two years as a premium player just so that I'd have to go back to forking out extra sums of money on top on a regular basis.

[Gremmlynn]

Apparently you can use the word "free" if you market a game where no one has to pay, no matter how absurd it would be to play for free and be on the same level as those who do pay are.What level is that?

[DeafeningWhisper]

Anyone else get the feel that to play this "free" game it's starting to get awfully expensive?

[Kadran]

Nothing in this world is free.

If I already pay for the game via VIP or unlocking content as Premium, I am not going to pay more on top of that for literally nothing in return.

If Turbine wants more money, they can sell more features. I've been begging for bank space for YEARS. I'd buy more in a heartbeat. Shut up and take my money.

[Missing_Minds]

I don't like DDO still claiming to be a free game.
Oh shesh.. this again.

It is free to play. In so much as no one has to pay to access the servers to try it out.
If you want to advance easily, you do have to pay for content. Frankly, that makes sense.

If MMOs had offered unlimited F2P server access years ago, I probably would have tried out MMOs years ago. But I was NOT going to be beholden to them for a month that I may or may not like the game, have time to try the game, let alone actually get an accurate feel for the game on top of buying a copy of said game.

F2P is the best way to attract people. It is then that the game has to stand on its own to keep people and to make them want to buy content or become a ViP. This is now what most of the market is now trying to figure out. Frankly, their bean counters have been over ruling their psychologists for intelligent answers in so far as making profit and continual customers often settling for spikes of profit rather than a loyal consistent customer base. Granted this later idea is extremely difficult to nurture in the volitial market of gaming and world economics. Are there steps that Turbine could actually take? YES! have the people in charge been listening? No.

[Thalmor]

Anyone else get the feel that to play this "free" game it's starting to get awfully expensive?

What do you mean starting to, it already has been since it went Free to Play...

[Gkar]

What level is that?

Well you really can't be very useful in EE anything without having paid for ED.

And really there isn't that much free epic content period, so you have to buy the expansion.

But pre epic, yeah, it can be done 100% for free if you want to.

[goodspeed]

I could state my opinion on the thread question. But as their are children about, and it would almost certainly actually do the impossible (draw dev attention) it's best to just leave it to the individuals imagination pondering the most somewhat obscene mix of words and gesturing actions would be.

[DeafeningWhisper]

What do you mean starting to, it already has been since it went Free to Play...

When I started, add 4 months to join date, you could go VIP for 3 months save your TPs gain a few more from favors during those months then spend around d30 $ in TPs to buy the "essential" end-game packs and be pretty much set.

Now thou? In how many hundreds of dollars would you measure the amount required to have acccess to the end-game and end-game features? Destinies, MoTU and so on...

[Memnir]

it's best to just leave it to the individuals imagination pondering the most somewhat obscene mix of words and gesturing actions would be.I'm visualizing something along these lines:
.
.
.
http://i.imgur.com/xHh2XS1.gif
.
.
But then again, I do tend to see things differently then most.

[Gkar]

greed is a very strong drug....nothing will abates its hunger but ever increasing profits

http://s18.postimg.org/yq3mwtzxl/1etetwx.jpg

Just as a side note, did you know that the gold bars held by banks and countries can't be traded easily? They are known as "Good delivery bars", they don't even necessarily weigh 400oz as advertised, are less pure than smaller gold bars held for investment, and are valued based on paperwork that follows them from creation of the bar to every trade.

A stolen gold good delivery bar can only be used if you have access to the equipment to melt it down refine new gold bars or coins under a recognized authority.

To steal resellable gold you would have to steal smaller investment grade gold (1kg bars or flats being your best choice. However event that is risky since each bar has a unique serial number that is recorded on each sale by the buyer and seller. That means your gold can be traced back to you.

That leaves you with low value gold coins or bars, which may or may not have serial numbers but are hard to move in the billion $ values shown in movies.

/sigh

Guess that means I really can't rob a bank and get rich in their precious metal vaults.

[danzig138]

Anyone else get the feel that to play this "free" game it's starting to get awfully expensive?

I"m absolutely positive that someone else thinks that also. Whether or not they do does not make it true.

[Missing_Minds]

But then again, I do tend to see things differently then most.
You and me both. All I'm really noticing in that picture are the baked goods in the background. mmmmmmm....

[squishwizzy]

I would like to see that introduced, in order for Turbine to get the necessary profit from that, rather than to see all the changes with the goal of getting as much money as they can.
I would rather to pay monthly (ok I am VIP, so i already do, but I mean mandatory for all) and see all the efforts aiming to improve the gameplay and the fun. I don't want to see any more greedy releases.

I don't like DDO still claiming to be a free game. Actually people already need to pay a lot in order to enjoy the game and in a couple of months they will have to do even more if the ASAH go forth.
The way the management has taken is, in my opinion, leading DDO to die.

It'll never happen.

F2P is a thing called a "loss leader." It gets people in, gets them hooked on the game, and then they eventually spend money for more nice stuff. It works as intended.

There is no way that Premium uses will switch to VIP, as many of them were VIP, and got tired of getting shagged by Turbine's VIP "benefits."

Of course, the "enlightened" position many premium users have taken - chosing to "own" their content instead of "renting" may very wll be short-lived. At one point, Turbine's current philosophy - nickle-and-dime everyone - will eventually catch up with them, and their "owned" content will all of a sudden become "not-so-owned."

But until things get to that point, you'd be hard-pressed to get premium users to switch back to something like VIP and having a monthly subscription.

[Memnir]

You and me both. All I'm really noticing in that picture are the baked goods in the background. mmmmmmm....You mean there is anything else?


:eek:

You're right! There is a gap in the queue line.

[Gremmlynn]

Well you really can't be very useful in EE anything without having paid for ED.

And really there isn't that much free epic content period, so you have to buy the expansion.

But pre epic, yeah, it can be done 100% for free if you want to.995 TP for ED's isn't that hard, MotU is about the price of three packs, but not unattainable. The packs with an epic option also tend to be picked up before many of the more peripheral one's too. It's really mostly a matter of patience in my experience, but the potential is there...without any real grinding. The play is definitely different as 2 chars/server tends to mean one plays several servers until a good base of content is built up and other similar differences.

[Kadran]

Well you really can't be very useful in EE anything without having paid for ED.

And really there isn't that much free epic content period, so you have to buy the expansion.

But pre epic, yeah, it can be done 100% for free if you want to.

I've soloed several EEs and a bunch more of the old epics w/o EDs. I own EDs, I just haven't messed with them much. I am level 4 LD and that's it right now.

My point is, you exaggerate.

[CoasterHops]

Lets get some of this in context:

-The base game itself is free, you can level all the way to 20 by not paying a sent, you can acquire TP in game by not paying a sent, you can use that TP to purchase packs. Admittedly it would take awhile to get the TP to purchase a decent pack.

-As people have mentioned the "Free to play" tag is what draws in the new players, remove this and new player numbers will decline rapidly.

-Paying for a sub is cheap entertainment (I don't agree with the VIP tag, I'm premium but have spent several hundred dollars on this game) for that you now get 10% extra xp, all content other than expansions and 500TP a month, for the price of what a coffee and a donut?

-Many premium players have spent as much if not more than alot of vips, yet premium players never seem to complain about this and that, now wouldn't it be nice to see the permanent stacking 10% bonus available in the DDO store? I believe that the model we now play under is the only way DDO can keep updating.
Premium players have already purchased their content you think that many would like to have to pay for a sub as well?

-DDO has it's issues, lag, bugs and broken things that will never be fixed but what it also has is by far the best Character/Class building mixing and matching to match your playstyle and an awesomely immersive combat system that beats the heck out of almost every other MMO out there. So yeah a stand alone generic game is $100, DDO is a few hundred for all good content, that stand alone generic game you bought 12 months ago is now gathering dust on your bookshelf.....

[cdbd3rd]

I would rather to pay monthly (ok I am VIP, so i already do, but I mean mandatory for all)....


You're VIP, works for you. Good good.

Mandatory for all? Right. Not.

[Chai]

I've soloed several EEs and a bunch more of the old epics w/o EDs. I own EDs, I just haven't messed with them much. I am level 4 LD and that's it right now.

My point is, you exaggerate.

Which EEs would those be? And on what build?

The power increase between having EDs and not having EDs is substantial.

[dunklezhan]

Oh shesh.. this again.

It is free to play. In so much as no one has to pay to access the servers to try it out.
If you want to advance easily, you do have to pay for content. Frankly, that makes sense.

If MMOs had offered unlimited F2P server access years ago, I probably would have tried out MMOs years ago. But I was NOT going to be beholden to them for a month that I may or may not like the game, have time to try the game, let alone actually get an accurate feel for the game on top of buying a copy of said game.

F2P is the best way to attract people. It is then that the game has to stand on its own to keep people and to make them want to buy content or become a ViP. This is now what most of the market is now trying to figure out. Frankly, their bean counters have been over ruling their psychologists for intelligent answers in so far as making profit and continual customers often settling for spikes of profit rather than a loyal consistent customer base. Granted this later idea is extremely difficult to nurture in the volitial market of gaming and world economics. Are there steps that Turbine could actually take? YES! have the people in charge been listening? No.

This. All of this.

Like you said - you want to progress *fast*, then you buy content or sub or whatever.

But you don't *have* to - quite rarely amongst MMOs, turbine do actually provide a mechanic both here and in LOTRO to play entirely for free in that you can grind favour (and I mean GRIND) and buy content with the TP you earn. It is theoretically possible to unlock all content in the game with TP - including the last expansion. I can't imagine it would be fun or quick, but if you want faster, as we've established, you pay some cash. Not even that much, really given you immediately get premium status making it even easier to grind out favour with more character slots. This is a completely transparent system, and is the reason DDO was saved by it.

Because of the free 500TP per month with their sub a VIP can also, technically, get the expansions for free, if they're prepared to save and spend their free monthly TP award on them. But if they're going to release one annually then that that's as disingenuous as saying folks can "unlock" the store-only extra bag and bank slots "in game", or saying that red fens brought us 'underwater combat'. You'll have to save all your TP every month each year to buy each expansion - it actually devalues the VIP package overall. Every 2 years is a much more reasonable timescale for expansions, a timescale over which I would have no problem forking out real cash each time. It works for WoW, it should work for Turbine - and Blizzard also add new content all the time in between at no extra cost to subscribers just like Turbine do.


As it happens, I've always thought MMOs generally priced "expansions" completely wrongly anyway.


They should knock an amount off the expansion price for each month you've been subbing up to that point, down to a set minimum price so that the reward you get as a subscriber ADDS tangible value over time. Expansions should be about encouraging those steady-streamers to stay and keep streaming you income, and getting a cash injection from new players while giving them a reason to become steady-streamers (or in the case of Turbine, frequent income contributors). Profits are probably lower short term, yes, but it's likely to keep long term players for even longer - the longer someone is playing the more reluctant they are to switch due to time/cash invested. If you show them that the investment genuinely pays off financially they'll find it even harder, psychologically speaking, to switch - even if they aren't really enjoying the game that much anymore. All the while, giving you more money. I know this because I'm one of these people, and lets just say you're not showing my that my investment pays off, and there's a number of MMOs on the market that look really enticing right now.


Now, if you don't have a sub option in the first place (as Neverwinter is rumoured not to) then fair game - charge for what you want, when you want, and hope you get your pricing well enough set to retain people and encourage them to spend money.


TL DR:

1. The fact that it's a paid for expansion is not actually the problem, it's the frequency of expansions that is the problem
2. Making VIPs pay for an expansion is fine, but the cost should be adjusted to reflect their long term commitment in a more direct way than via the indirect monthly TP award.
3. None of this means that F2P should be dropped, or is in some way concealing the cost of playing if you want access to as much content as possible.

[Gremmlynn]

Which EEs would those be? And on what build?

The power increase between having EDs and not having EDs is substantial.ED's are comparable to the GH pack in the store. 995TP isn't hard to accumulate. I did it from the time U17 launched and the time ED's appeared in the store without any grinding.

[Silverwren]

........... for that you now get 10% extra xp, all content other than expansions and 500TP a month, for the price of what a coffee and a donut?


You pay $9.99 for coffee and a donut? You have to stop shopping at Tiffany's. :p

[Antiguo]

I've soloed several EEs and a bunch more of the old epics w/o EDs. I own EDs, I just haven't messed with them much. I am level 4 LD and that's it right now.

My point is, you exaggerate.

Proof?

[dunklezhan]

wouldn't it be nice to see the permanent stacking 10% bonus available in the DDO store?


As a VIP I hate hate HATE the new XP bonus. It's unfair, it delevels the playing field, it's horrid and divisive and makes further worsens the difficulty of staying in an at-level group for more than a few quests due to people levelling at different rates, and should be swapped for something else, like say an extra 100TPs/month, or the expansion discount I mentioned in my last post.

Hate it. If it wouldn't cost me about a hundred quid to buy all the content that's come out since I went VIP, I genuinely would cancel my sub over this. As it is, i'm just looking for a new MMO and will cancel my sub when I find it.

[apaurin]

Anyone else get the feel that to play this "free" game it's starting to get awfully expensive?

I don't find 10$ I'm paying per month "awfully expensive". I can't even get drunk for that amount :D.

[FestusHood]

I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this, but i have actually not spent very much money to play this game. It's not that i'm cheap, i'm poor. Been playing for about a year and a half now. Actual dollars spent: $25.50. I know i'm far from their ideal customer, but i love the game, and frankly, if it weren't for the health issues which prevent me from having much money, i would never have found the game. I used to be an active, outdoorsy type.

I don't feel like i'm missing anything significant about the ddo experience. Between the small amount of money i had to spend, taking advantage of sales, and just accruing tp from playing, i've gotten quite a bit of the game.

When i was still active, I could easily spend, and did frequently, $25 in a bar in an hour or two. $25 in a year and a half is almost indistinguishable from free.

What is it exactly that makes you think you need to spend a lot of money to play this game? Because you hear of other people spending lots of money on it? I'm glad they do. If all their customers spent as little as me, this game would have folded long time ago.

I have a great time playing, know some great people, and i'm continually getting better at the game. What more do i need?

[DeafeningWhisper]

I don't find 10$ I'm paying per month "awfully expensive". I can't even get drunk for that amount :D.

LOL, you realize that you just said that paying 10 $ a month is not "awfully expensive" when talking about a "free" game right? :)

You did however make my point for me, if paying 10 $ is what is consider normal for a free game I'de hate to see what a pay to play game feels like...

[MagicalDad]

Anyone else get the feel that to play this "free" game it's starting to get awfully expensive?

Well, the game can be enjoyed in many ways. You *can* play for free - it's a slightly different experience, obviously. And the big win in micro-transactions for Turbine is the very low pain threshold in making just ONE more purchase.

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-CV2d9W4/0/950x10000/i-CV2d9W4-950x10000.jpg

[Ivan_Milic]

Last points I bought were year ago,and I bought motu with tp,bought mm2,3,alignment change because I screwed up when I tred,arti class,druids deep,1 greater tome of learning,netherese pack and I still have 1k tp.
Spent like 50 bucks back then,that can barely get me drunk for 1 night.

[fco-karatekid]

Anyone else get the feel that to play this "free" game it's starting to get awfully expensive?

so, between my and my two kids' premium accounts, it already was :D

[apaurin]

LOL, you realize that you just said that paying 10 $ a month is not "awfully expensive" when talking about a "free" game right? :)

You did however make my point for me, if paying 10 $ is what is consider normal for a free game I'de hate to see what a pay to play game feels like...

What do you guys expect, not to put one dollar in a game and to have exactly the same experience as people that pay? Wouldn't make any sense. Either you pay or you grind. And btw, I do hate all that silly p2w stuff they are putting in with every update too.

[Vellrad]

When I started, add 4 months to join date, you could go VIP for 3 months save your TPs gain a few more from favors during those months then spend around d30 $ in TPs to buy the "essential" end-game packs and be pretty much set.

Now thou? In how many hundreds of dollars would you measure the amount required to have acccess to the end-game and end-game features? Destinies, MoTU and so on...

Since I started playing this year, month after it went f2p, I spent little above 650PLN on it.
In USD, it would be about 180-250 (exchange rates was changing during that time).

But most of that TP was spent on some useless fluff, and I'd say about half or quarter of that sum is essential for all content, classes and races.

[Kadran]

Which EEs would those be? And on what build?

The power increase between having EDs and not having EDs is substantial.

I'm sure it is. I'll have to take your word on it until I actually level some up.

The trick is ranged damage and self healing. A powerful combo. I only play WF, and i'm not going to list my builds. But I can say for certain Wizard, Sorcerer and Artificer.

And i'm talking about eberron epics, because i'm much more familiar with them. And when going solo, you choose content you know by heart. Not something you'll have to learn the hard way.

[DeafeningWhisper]

What do you guys expect, not to put one dollar in a game and to have exactly the same experience as people that pay? Wouldn't make any sense. Either you pay or you grind. And btw, I do hate all that silly p2w stuff they are putting in with every update too.

I'm VIP, have been since join date, just pointing out that DDO is "free" but spending 120 $ a year is considered normal...

They should just do what WOW and other MMOs have done and call DDO "free to try", since I know no one who plays the game at any sort of length that did not spend money on it.


Also the guy who posted the League pic is dead on, League is completely free but you can buy "skins" for real money. My friend has unlocked all the features (champs, extra rune pages...) by playing yet he has spent over 500 $ on skins.


P.S. Like all drugs, the first taste of DDO is free after that you have to pay for your "fix". :)

[eonfreon]

When I started, add 4 months to join date, you could go VIP for 3 months save your TPs gain a few more from favors during those months then spend around d30 $ in TPs to buy the "essential" end-game packs and be pretty much set.

Now thou? In how many hundreds of dollars would you measure the amount required to have acccess to the end-game and end-game features? Destinies, MoTU and so on...

MoTu and Destinies? $9.99. Not that expensive. Ever since DDO went f2p I've spent maybe $75 all told? Plus another $25 or so recently for more bank and inventory space (and I still have TP left over). So a bit over $100 in 3 years time I'd say. That's pretty cheap for the amount of entertainment hours I've gotten from DDO over that time period.

Sure, before I spent more because it was a subscription only. So I had no choice. I took all those TPs I got allotted for being a loyal customer during the transition period and "bought" all the aspects of the game I enjoyed. I'm not worried about getting every adventure pack because I really care more about endgame, so that's where I'll spend my money. I'm glad that Turbine is finally developing more endgame content lately. The game was too much about TRing and rerunning old quests over and over. I didn't care for that aspect.

Of course I have times when I play a lot and times when I play a little. Currently I'm playing a lot. For over six months before I was playing very little. But I wasn't paying anything extra and I still had access to all I had.

As far as the OP. It'll never happen. It would be too complicated since there are so many people who "own" content already. I suppose they could find a way to limit access to further development to just a subscription model, but that would be a tactic that few Premiums would convert to. I don't think there's much chance of that happening. Plus they seem rather successful with this model. Whereas, even putting aside Atari's manipulations, DDO was a rather small, niche game before it went to the f2p/Premium/VIP model. More people would rather tryout a game then invest in it right from the get-go. If they changed at this point I'm betting they would lose far more customers then they would gain. The sub fee would have to be quite large to compensate.