Someone explain something

[Charononus]

Ok so a lot of people are upset about the new collectables system. Honestly I've been looking at it and I don't get why, so I'm hope someone can spell out what they use the old(current) one for because while the new costs of things are high, the current system seems much more worthless as all it can give is pretty much vendor trash. (minus the undead vendor, pm's got hit with the greater nerf bat of undead bane) But unless you are a pm why so much dislike for it, I don't get it.

[redspecter23]

The amount of time it could take you to assemble one turn in set under the new system is potentially 10x - 1000x longer than it could take you to just go buy/loot the item you would be trading for anyway. The person that was in charge of assigning the turn in ratios has such a huge disconnect with the rate at which collectables can be acquired that you wonder if they even play the game or know that the numbers they are assigning are for a system in a game that actually exists.

[FZTopaz]

The biggest issues people are having is that they changed it in the test server and it was useful....then....after all this positive feedback, they changed it AGAIN and made it near impossible to get some of the items. I have collectables going back almost four years and don't have enough to get some of the stuff there. 10 Amulets of the Six for a greater heroism pot? I think I have 6 total between 10 toons....it was just a ridiculous cost increase for absolutely no reason.

Basically, they had it right, then screwed it up.

[Charononus]

The biggest issues people are having is that they changed it in the test server and it was useful....then....after all this positive feedback, they changed it AGAIN and made it near impossible to get some of the items. I have collectables going back almost four years and don't have enough to get some of the stuff there. 10 Amulets of the Six for a greater heroism pot? I think I have 6 total between 10 toons....it was just a ridiculous cost increase for absolutely no reason.

Basically, they had it right, then screwed it up.

That I can understand, from my perspective when I looked at it not seeing that my thought was well those will be useful but rare so better than the current which I view as useless except for xp pots from shards. I honestly don't know how many of what I have but I was planning on looking on monday to see what I could get. It just felt like such a huge disconnect from what others have been saying.

[squishwizzy]

Frankly speaking the collectable turn-in system is useless for anyone other than a brand new player who hasn't quite figured out how to make a marginal amounts of plat in the game.

I haven't done any turn-ins since my first toon, and even with him, at a point I found the whole reward system kinda useless. I'd rather keep the collectables for crafting.

[Enoach]

While some argue the "old" system wasn't useful, I disagree. For new players the collectable system was a way to supplement supplies they would need during the normal course of questing.

Example are the collectibles that first showed up in Tangleroot gorge. Which included the ability to get cure serious and remove curse potions. A couple runs in the gorge could get supplies that the coin purse could not support during this time in the game.

Others included the Wand - Various low level types that helped supplement the ability to heal a group, self or even continue to do some damage during the course of the quest.

Again, for low levels this was a good system to help line the pockets and give them tools that they could not afford to buy. Later with crafting some of the collectibles became part of that system, unfortunately those chosen were also already seen as valuable based on what their turn in was for. It still left a large amount of collectibles that would not be useful.

With the change in amount on LAM, meant to me that the primary target of the system would no longer be able to use it. To me that is a sad thing because it can make the start-up for a new player even harder.

I don't mind an overhall of the system. I do think it is wrong to make it only affordable to those who have been around a long time for stuff that they would not necessarily need and would be more beneficial to a newer player.

[CheeseMilk]

For me, it was seeing the new list, liking it a lot, then seeing the NEW new list given without comment or reason, doing some quick maths on the number of collectibles I had amassed over the years, and getting kinda mad about it.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

While some argue the "old" system wasn't useful, I disagree. For new players the collectable system was a way to supplement supplies they would need during the normal course of questing.

Example are the collectibles that first showed up in Tangleroot gorge. Which included the ability to get cure serious and remove curse potions. A couple runs in the gorge could get supplies that the coin purse could not support during this time in the game.

Others included the Wand - Various low level types that helped supplement the ability to heal a group, self or even continue to do some damage during the course of the quest.

Again, for low levels this was a good system to help line the pockets and give them tools that they could not afford to buy. Later with crafting some of the collectibles became part of that system, unfortunately those chosen were also already seen as valuable based on what their turn in was for. It still left a large amount of collectibles that would not be useful.

With the change in amount on LAM, meant to me that the primary target of the system would no longer be able to use it. To me that is a sad thing because it can make the start-up for a new player even harder.

I don't mind an overhall of the system. I do think it is wrong to make it only affordable to those who have been around a long time for stuff that they would not necessarily need and would be more beneficial to a newer player.

I recently rolled a new toon. I handed over all the non-rare/crafting collectables that actually looked like they might give anything useful to a lowbie toon and spent over 30 mins running around to hand them in.

Other than a couple almost-decent lowbie bane weapons, I vendor trashed most of what it gave me.
Anyone joining a lvl 25+ guild will have access to cheap pots and wands, and there are still newbie friendly guilds with guild chests where that kind of stuff is stocked.
And the most useful pots from collectables are often inventory problems for the people who can use them most.


So, I'll semi-agree that when I was a newbie premium player running 28 pt builds, it was semi-useful.

However, it wasn't relevant at all for many users. So, I will agree that an overhaul was owed. However, I'm not sure at all what to think of this setup.

[Daemoneyes]

Ok so a lot of people are upset about the new collectables system. Honestly I've been looking at it and I don't get why, so I'm hope someone can spell out what they use the old(current) one for because while the new costs of things are high, the current system seems much more worthless as all it can give is pretty much vendor trash. (minus the undead vendor, pm's got hit with the greater nerf bat of undead bane) But unless you are a pm why so much dislike for it, I don't get it.

My experience with the current system:
I was new and tried to trade in stuff because it clattered inventar.
First thing that annoyed me was how to find out where to trade what stuff, the collectable should mention who wants it.
Second was how it was traded, clicking my life away.
Third was the actual "reward" useless even on first-life.
Then i used wiki and found out that most stuff is used for crafting/enchant and those could be sold for horrendous amounts, never again talked to a collector.

My view of the new system:
I wasnt overly enthusiastic over the first changes but at least it was enough for me to consider to trade in a few things.
Then came the change and i am back to either use them myself in crafting/enchant or sell them for horrendous amounts but if those rates stay at those ridicules amounts i will again never talk to a collector.

[Kilbar]

The old system was NOT useless, and I'll tell you why. Ever over-extend yourself buying things on the auction house? Ever suddenly find yourself dangerously low on plat? Ever find yourself just a few coins short of that perfect item purchase?

With the old system, I could go spend an hour or so off-loading collectibles and then selling the rewards and make THOUSANDS of plat in the process. Now the whole deal was tedious, no lie, so I only did it about once a year, but I'd end up with about fifty thousand plat for my troubles! And that's not counting the rare collectibles I could put on the auction house for who knows how much!

[Daemoneyes]

The old system was NOT useless, and I'll tell you why. Ever over-extend yourself buying things on the auction house? Ever suddenly find yourself dangerously low on plat? Ever find yourself just a few coins short of that perfect item purchase?

With the old system, I could go spend an hour or so off-loading collectibles and then selling the rewards and make THOUSANDS of plat in the process. Now the whole deal was tedious, no lie, so I only did it about once a year, but I'd end up with about fifty thousand plat for my troubles! And that's not counting the rare collectibles I could put on the auction house for who knows how much!

Still useless,
in the time you waste running around and clicking you could have run 2-6 Epic Quests with trash loot for 10-50k and named items from 150k - 2mio depending on your luck.
On average i get 1 named every 3 quests, so thats 1-3 items for at least 300k plat and if you are lucky and have time to sell way more.

[Kilbar]

Still useless,
in the time you waste running around and clicking you could have run 2-6 Epic Quests with trash loot for 10-50k and named items from 150k - 2mio depending on your luck.
On average i get 1 named every 3 quests, so thats 1-3 items for at least 300k plat and if you are lucky and have time to sell way more.

I could do that on a non-epic character, though. I solo a lot and I'm not capable of soloing epic content.

[Daemoneyes]

I could do that on a non-epic character, though. I solo a lot and I'm not capable of soloing epic content.

Yes but you need to have already accumulated tons of collectables to even come to 50k from the trade in.

Then you need some help to learn the basics of the game,
after that you are able to solo Epics,
surely not Epic Elite but Epic Normal can be solod with every build.
Trust me, you cant gimp yourself so much to not being able to complete Epic Normal.

You may not be able then to run more then 1-2 quests in that 30-45min you need to trade in the collectables. But you will net much more money after 2-3 days running Epics then Collectables could ever give you.

[Kilbar]

Yes but you need to have already accumulated tons of collectables to even come to 50k from the trade in.

Then you need some help to learn the basics of the game,
after that you are able to solo Epics,
surely not Epic Elite but Epic Normal can be solod with every build.
Trust me, you cant gimp yourself so much to not being able to complete Epic Normal.

You may not be able then to run more then 1-2 quests in that 30-45min you need to trade in the collectables. But you will net much more money after 2-3 days running Epics then Collectables could ever give you.

I'll have to try an epic normal run to confirm this. I'm still accustomed to the pre-update 14 epics, having not run an epic since then. I just got frustrated trying to get pugs together for the damned things. I have an 18/2 Fighter/Cleric and a 20 Monk both in desperate need of the XP.

[EllisDee37]

My impression is that the current system is for new players.

When I was a new player, every week or two I'd run around and turn-in all my non-crafting collectables for vendor trash that I'd promptly decon for essences. That was helpful. Now that you actually get xp for decon it would be even more helpful.

[Daemoneyes]

I'll have to try an epic normal run to confirm this. I'm still accustomed to the pre-update 14 epics, having not run an epic since then. I just got frustrated trying to get pugs together for the damned things. I have an 18/2 Fighter/Cleric and a 20 Monk both in desperate need of the XP.

Try it, worst case you will want a hireling with you but epic normal is really like a walk in the park on a warm sunny day with a icecream cone in your hand and benches everywhere in case you feel tired.

Epic hard needs you to have at least 125% fortification / blur and some more hp and damage but otherwise its also relative easy depending on which char you play.

Epic elite is something you only want to enter prepared, mobs hit 3 times as strong as on hard and bosses have tons of hp and hit even harder.
150%+ fortification, blur/displace, hp and good damage is what you want at least.
I would not recommend this to anyone that doesnt feel secure with epic hard, it would feel like going through a meatgrinder for most.

[Charononus]

Try it, worst case you will want a hireling with you but epic normal is really like a walk in the park on a warm sunny day with a icecream cone in your hand and benches everywhere in case you feel tired.

Epic hard needs you to have at least 125% fortification / blur and some more hp and damage but otherwise its also relative easy depending on which char you play.

Epic elite is something you only want to enter prepared, mobs hit 3 times as strong as on hard and bosses have tons of hp and hit even harder.
150%+ fortification, blur/displace, hp and good damage is what you want at least.
I would not recommend this to anyone that doesnt feel secure with epic hard, it would feel like going through a meatgrinder for most.

This is a fair summary, the only thing I have to add is that if you have maxed destinies ext ee feels fairly similar in some quests to old epic, ie pay attention and you can smash it.

[Kilbar]

Try it, worst case you will want a hireling with you but epic normal is really like a walk in the park on a warm sunny day with a icecream cone in your hand and benches everywhere in case you feel tired.

Epic hard needs you to have at least 125% fortification / blur and some more hp and damage but otherwise its also relative easy depending on which char you play.

Epic elite is something you only want to enter prepared, mobs hit 3 times as strong as on hard and bosses have tons of hp and hit even harder.
150%+ fortification, blur/displace, hp and good damage is what you want at least.
I would not recommend this to anyone that doesnt feel secure with epic hard, it would feel like going through a meatgrinder for most.

I bought the MotU collector's edition, so I have onyx panthers to help me along. I even wasted a feat on augment summoning just to squeeze the most out of them.

[Daemoneyes]

I bought the MotU collector's edition, so I have onyx panthers to help me along. I even wasted a feat on augment summoning just to squeeze the most out of them.

Augment summon is not a bad feat if you dont have reliable self-healing because it really helps to tune down the damage your heal hire will get.

The panther while not bad, is to much of a double edged blade for my taste,
having him on a healer is nice but together with a heal hire he increases scaling to much for my taste.
But try it, your results may differ :)

[Kilbar]

Augment summon is not a bad feat if you dont have reliable self-healing because it really helps to tune down the damage your heal hire will get.

The panther while not bad, is to much of a double edged blade for my taste,
having him on a healer is nice but together with a heal hire he increases scaling to much for my taste.
But try it, your results may differ :)

I like cats, and I LOVE big black panthers. Bagheera from The Jungle Book is my original childhood hero. So having him questing alongside me just makes me smile, you know?

[Gremmlynn]

With the change in amount on LAM, meant to me that the primary target of the system would no longer be able to use it. To me that is a sad thing because it can make the start-up for a new player even harder.This is how I saw it. Despite the system being rather limited in utility, it was competing with the cash shop and competing with it primarily with a group of players who were in the process of developing game habits. Better, for Turbine, they get in the habit of just going to the DDO store first when they need...well anything.

[Gremmlynn]

Augment summon is not a bad feat if you dont have reliable self-healing because it really helps to tune down the damage your heal hire will get.

The panther while not bad, is to much of a double edged blade for my taste,
having him on a healer is nice but together with a heal hire he increases scaling to much for my taste.
But try it, your results may differ :)That and heal hires have a tendency to ignore players so as to be ready at all times to heal pets. Though the panther, technically being a hireling, might not generate this effect.

[Daemoneyes]

I like cats, and I LOVE big black panthers. Bagheera from The Jungle Book is my original childhood hero. So having him questing alongside me just makes me smile, you know?

Hey we are all here to have fun ;)
So if it makes you smile go ahead and use it when you solo or you create an lfm.

[Antiguo]

You can use like 50 collectables to get a RANDOM augment gem OR you can use euros/dollars to get the augment you want.......... yeah, i really cant see why someone would dislike the new system, geez.

/irony off

[Daemoneyes]

You can use like 50 collectables to get a RANDOM augment gem OR you can use euros/dollars to get the augment you want.......... yeah, i really cant see why someone would dislike the new system, geez.

/irony off

See the positive Side, only Deathblock and Fortification have any worth till epic :)

[FestusHood]

The old system was NOT useless, and I'll tell you why. Ever over-extend yourself buying things on the auction house? Ever suddenly find yourself dangerously low on plat? Ever find yourself just a few coins short of that perfect item purchase?

With the old system, I could go spend an hour or so off-loading collectibles and then selling the rewards and make THOUSANDS of plat in the process. Now the whole deal was tedious, no lie, so I only did it about once a year, but I'd end up with about fifty thousand plat for my troubles! And that's not counting the rare collectibles I could put on the auction house for who knows how much!

This SO reminds me of the old Sam Kinison joke. Does anyone remember it? When he talks about wanting to go into rehab for a cocaine addiction, but they charge 20,000 dollars? The punchline being, if you've got 20,000 dollars YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM YET!

Here, if you have enough collectibles to get 50,000 plat from vendors, The new collectible turn ins aren't too high for you. Given that the actual value of the current turn in rewards is what? maybe 20 plat on average at a vendor?

Here is what should happen with the new system. Newbies will pull those same collectibles, but instead of trading them in for sub korthos vendor junk, they will sell the collectibles directly to other players so that they can do the turn ins. Would you pay 10k plat to get the collectibles required to get a greater heroism pot? I have to say i would.

This will just add some of the turn in collectibles to the list of crafting collectibles, as to which collectibles are actually valuable for selling and buying.

I also have to mention that the arrows available in the new system seem to be a better deal than before. Yes, they take more collectibles, but you get 5x more arrows, and exactly the ones you want, rather than most of the time getting stuff that is not the arrows you want.

[FestusHood]

Yes but you need to have already accumulated tons of collectables to even come to 50k from the trade in.

Then you need some help to learn the basics of the game,
after that you are able to solo Epics,
surely not Epic Elite but Epic Normal can be solod with every build.
Trust me, you cant gimp yourself so much to not being able to complete Epic Normal.

You may not be able then to run more then 1-2 quests in that 30-45min you need to trade in the collectables. But you will net much more money after 2-3 days running Epics then Collectables could ever give you.

No need to solo epics to out earn the rate of income from turning in collectibles. You can solo haverdasher and do that.

[FestusHood]

I'll have to try an epic normal run to confirm this. I'm still accustomed to the pre-update 14 epics, having not run an epic since then. I just got frustrated trying to get pugs together for the damned things. I have an 18/2 Fighter/Cleric and a 20 Monk both in desperate need of the XP.

Jeez, i hope the 2 is not the cleric part.