Give elves and rangers 10% movement speed increase.

[maximus123123]

Give elves 10% movement speed increase.

Rangers like Barbarians should have this innately.

Elves should have this because they are elves and in all fantasy settings they are pretty fast (albeit dainty thus their -2 con starting out).

Half-elves possibly should get 5% being half elves.

Plus movement speed is just cool and something needs to be done to make both elves and rangers more alluring to take.

[Kmnh]

I'd be all for that if manyshot imposed a 95% movement penalty. No kiting please. :)

[Memnir]

No thank you.

[Kilbar]

/not signed

Barbarian movement speed is taken straight from the tabletop game. Rangers and Elves have no such bonus. You want to improve Rangers, give them their pets that they've been denied all this time. You want to improve Elves... Don't. They're meant to be on par with dwarves and halflings in terms of capability, and I'd say they are.

[Musouka]

No thank you.

http://www.oilogosphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/No-thanks-2.jpg

[Bacab]

Would an Elf Ranger with a Barbarian splash get +30 movement?

[maximus123123]

Would an Elf Ranger with a Barbarian splash get +30 movement?

Yup. But so would an Elven Barbarian with a Ranger splash.
It would just make the game funner in my opinion and give people a reason to roll up Elves.

The only people it would affect are all those out on a personal agenda to destroy Elves as a playable character in DDO (of which I've seen quite a few).

[Kilbar]

People ALREADY have a reason to roll up elves. It's called Arcane Archer Racial Prestige.

[Musouka]

People ALREADY have a reason to roll up elves. It's called Arcane Archer Racial Prestige.

I would say the Spell Penetration enhancements too, but I am not sure Spell Pen is all too important anymore.

[Kilbar]

I would say the Spell Penetration enhancements too, but I am not sure Spell Pen is all too important anymore.

True enough. And Elven Arcane Fluidity for casters is pretty good if you want to wear armor. There's plenty of reasons to play an Elf without giving them run speed bonuses that are unprecedented in the tabletop game outside of Dark Sun.

[Mastikator]

Rangers and elves are already fine options.

[Uska]

/not signed

Barbarian movement speed is taken straight from the tabletop game. Rangers and Elves have no such bonus. You want to improve Rangers, give them their pets that they've been denied all this time. You want to improve Elves... Don't. They're meant to be on par with dwarves and halflings in terms of capability, and I'd say they are.

We got to be both ranged and melee instead of having half-strength nearly useless pets with a bad AI

[Kilbar]

We got to be both ranged and melee instead of having half-strength nearly useless pets with a bad AI

Pets are borked, I know. That's a separate issue, however.

[blerkington]

We got to be both ranged and melee instead of having half-strength nearly useless pets with a bad AI

Hi,

Yes, for me this is definitely the preferable situation. And would be even if pets/hirelings were much better than they are now in DDO.

I do appreciate that some people want pets though, so perhaps one way to keep everyone happy would be to allow those who do want pets to sacrifice one of the two combat styles.

So at first level you choose a path, then at the points where combat feats were autogranted, you'd choose feats which built your combat style/s and/or improved your pet.

I don't think we need to support any sort of racial quota by making some races more attractive than they are, even though what the OP proposes would be very useful to my main, an elf ranger.

There is fun to be had from playing a character which is not one of the powerhouse races and classes. And being 'weak' teaches you to be better at the game. There is a lot more to being good at the game than picking one of the the more powerful builds.

Thanks.

[Archangel666]

Personally I just want the Longstrider spell to stack. By mid to late game the spell becomes largely useless because everyone has 30% Striding. Rangers already have a ton of useless spells as it is.

[scoobmx]

More buffs to helf? No.

[Bacab]

We got to be both ranged and melee instead of having half-strength nearly useless pets with a bad AI

+1


This is a typical "I want something for nothing" thread.

Elves (which I do not like) are a very strong race as is.
Arcane Archer=Awesome

Ranger is a very strong class in EE since manyshot Fury of the Wild is AWESOME.

And having a RANGED OPTION (yes melee too when Manyshot is NOT up)

Oh yeah...

Elf>Drow

And I do not like Drow either (but they need the most help...along with Warforged melees)

[Archangel666]

+1


This is a typical "I want something for nothing" thread.

Elves (which I do not like) are a very strong race as is.
Arcane Archer=Awesome

Ranger is a very strong class in EE since manyshot Fury of the Wild is AWESOME.

And having a RANGED OPTION (yes melee too when Manyshot is NOT up)

Oh yeah...

Elf>Drow

And I do not like Drow either (but they need the most help...along with Warforged melees)

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Manyshot and Fury of the Wild is very strong in EE? Because it's not like Manyshot is only available to Rangers.

Also, with the exception of my own pure Ranger I very, very rarely see full level 20 Rangers. I see a hell of a lot of 6 Ranger/ 14 Something other than Rangers on a daily basis though.

Are all those people somehow misinformed?

Claiming that Rangers are strong when 90% of players stop being a Ranger after the first six levels...erm...how does that work exactly?

And as for the whole Rangers can melee too, well, since you brought up Epic Elite, when's the last time you saw an AA Ranger meleeing on Epic Elite? Isn't the reason why Ranged is the Flavour of the Month down to the fact that Epic Elite mobs hit so hard that being Ranged gives you a chance to survive?

[ddobard1]

...Barbarian movement speed is taken straight from the tabletop game. Rangers and Elves have no such bonus...


/ not signed

[JPGR]

Hows bout fixing ranger capstone, combat archery, and de nerfing FoM.

[Bacab]

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Manyshot and Fury of the Wild is very strong in EE? Because it's not like Manyshot is only available to Rangers.

Also, with the exception of my own pure Ranger I very, very rarely see full level 20 Rangers. I see a hell of a lot of 6 Ranger/ 14 Something other than Rangers on a daily basis though.

Are all those people somehow misinformed?

Claiming that Rangers are strong when 90% of players stop being a Ranger after the first six levels...erm...how does that work exactly?

And as for the whole Rangers can melee too, well, since you brought up Epic Elite, when's the last time you saw an AA Ranger meleeing on Epic Elite? Isn't the reason why Ranged is the Flavour of the Month down to the fact that Epic Elite mobs hit so hard that being Ranged gives you a chance to survive?

Well, I was speaking why ranger should not just get a random 10% run speed (like barb). They do get sprint boost and longstrider.

TBH the best AA's do put their bow away when appropiate.

Level 9 RNG gets Evasion

Level 11 They get GTWF

Level 18 They can get Supreme TWF (Tempest PRE3)

An elf can be Tempest and AA. I think that is fantastic.

I can definitely agree about the capstone being fixed.

OTHERWISE there is very little reason to not go 18RNG/2xxx or 18RNG/1xxx/1xxx

[danzig138]

There is a flaw in your logic, that being

in all fantasy settings they are pretty fastExcept for in Eberron, Greyhawk, or the Forgotten Realms, where they are not faster. You know, two of which are where this game takes place. So, no. Now if this was Dark Sun, maybe. IIRC, the elves there were faster (at least they had some crazy long distance running endurance).

[Kilbar]

Well, I was speaking why ranger should not just get a random 10% run speed (like barb). They do get sprint boost and longstrider.

TBH the best AA's do put their bow away when appropiate.

Level 9 RNG gets Evasion

Level 11 They get GTWF

Level 18 They can get Supreme TWF (Tempest PRE3)

An elf can be Tempest and AA. I think that is fantastic.

I can definitely agree about the capstone being fixed.

OTHERWISE there is very little reason to not go 18RNG/2xxx or 18RNG/1xxx/1xxx

Barbarians do NOT have a random run speed bonus. They've had a run speed bonus in every tabletop iteration for over thirty years. If it were just something Turbine cooked up just for DDO, maybe. But it isn't, so no.

[Uska]

+1


This is a typical "I want something for nothing" thread.

Elves (which I do not like) are a very strong race as is.
Arcane Archer=Awesome

Ranger is a very strong class in EE since manyshot Fury of the Wild is AWESOME.

And having a RANGED OPTION (yes melee too when Manyshot is NOT up)

Oh yeah...

Elf>Drow

And I do not like Drow either (but they need the most help...along with Warforged melees)


For sure on the WF they nerfed them to far heck they didnt need to be nerfed at all.

[Jaid314]

An elf can be Tempest and AA. I think that is fantastic.

quick correction: no they can't. they can only be one or the other, just like anyone else (and even then, the tempest is only an option if they're an actual ranger, just like anyone else; you cannot choose 2 PrEs from the same class, and AA counts as being a ranger prestige).

[Archangel666]

Well, I was speaking why ranger should not just get a random 10% run speed (like barb). They do get sprint boost and longstrider.

TBH the best AA's do put their bow away when appropiate.

Sprint Boost I can agree with, though they don't tend to last long, but Longstrider? Really? Non-stacking 15% runspeed? Thanks, I'll just keep wearing my 30% Striders like everyone else.

As do I, though rarely in Epic Elite because the mobs hit so dam ned hard and I like not being a Soul Stone.


Level 9 RNG gets Evasion

Yup, so does two levels of Monk or Rogue, what's your point?


Level 11 They get GTWF

So can a Fighter, Monk or Rogue, they certainly can afford the Feats (Monk is a bit tight ofc, but when you already have the free Feats granted by 6 levels of Ranger it makes it easier), again, what's your point?


Level 18 They can get Supreme TWF (Tempest PRE3)

Yup, if they choose Tempest over Arcane Archer they can indeed, but ofc if they choose Tempest they can't have Arcane Archer also.


An elf can be Tempest and AA. I think that is fantastic.

Erm...No, no they can't. They can be one or the other, not both.


I can definitely agree about the capstone being fixed.

OTHERWISE there is very little reason to not go 18RNG/2xxx or 18RNG/1xxx/1xxx

There's some justification for such a level split if Tempest, otherwise....not so much.

And I say that as a player with a full level 20 pure Ranger.

I play it pure because I prefer pure classes, not because it's optimal or even close to it.

[CaptainSpacePony]

While I agree that rangers need some attention (come on Enhancement overhaul!) this is not what they need nor what they should get.

No idea where "elves" run faster comes from. Certainly not D&D or any of the bazillion 80's fantasy RPGs I played as a yoot.

/not signed

[noinfo]

That's a bit disingenuous isn't it?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Manyshot and Fury of the Wild is very strong in EE? Because it's not like Manyshot is only available to Rangers.

Also, with the exception of my own pure Ranger I very, very rarely see full level 20 Rangers. I see a hell of a lot of 6 Ranger/ 14 Something other than Rangers on a daily basis though.

Are all those people somehow misinformed?

Claiming that Rangers are strong when 90% of players stop being a Ranger after the first six levels...erm...how does that work exactly?

And as for the whole Rangers can melee too, well, since you brought up Epic Elite, when's the last time you saw an AA Ranger meleeing on Epic Elite? Isn't the reason why Ranged is the Flavour of the Month down to the fact that Epic Elite mobs hit so hard that being Ranged gives you a chance to survive?

Exactly
The strength is those feats not the class itself in any way. In EE its a case of if you are being hit you are going to get smashed, ranged has a massive advantage in this situation, not rangers at all.

Most people who say that elves are powerful don't normally play them. While I am not necessarily supporting the OP, no one will normally take an elf over a helf, the helf enhancements are just too good. I used to enjoy playing elves, the extra boost you could get from a few more dex points could go a long way in an AC build but now days that small benefit is dead too. The racial bonuses due to enhancements need a massive overhaul no doubt about it.

[ThePrincipal]

/not signed on the movement

sign me up for elf doublestrike. elf should get 2% at creation and 2/4 AP for an additional 1% that stacks with equipment.

Extra 4% dps might make them playable.

[cdbd3rd]

...

Elves should have this because they are elves and in all fantasy settings they are... ...

... empowered with all manner of crazy powers/skills/resistances, just because they're poncy elves. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVwYKtgFYCc)

:p



...
sign me up for elf doublestrike. ....

Wholeheartedly agreed!! I, too, feel that every time we swing at an elf, we get to hit it twice. :)

[HungarianRhapsody]

I would like to see all classes get a stacking +10% movement bonus, but that's just because I like to move faster.

[Gkar]

I would like to see all classes get a stacking +10% movement bonus, but that's just because I like to move faster.

That I could get behind.

[Archangel666]

I would like to see all classes get a stacking +10% movement bonus, but that's just because I like to move faster.

Wish Granted!

But you have to be VIP and it doesn't work in Quests or Slayer Areas...


Ooops, wrong thread.

You know, I still say the best option is changing the otherwise useless spells Longstrider and Longstrider, Mass to be stacking. I say useless because everyone just uses 30% Striders.

[decease]

well it is not part of the rule.. but if they are doing enhancemnt revamp they might consider it..

[Ganolyn]

I'd be happy if they just created a Run skill we could put points into to increase our base run speed.

[FranOhmsford]

Personally I just want the Longstrider spell to stack. By mid to late game the spell becomes largely useless because everyone has 30% Striding. Rangers already have a ton of useless spells as it is.

Rangers have a ton of useless spells?

Erm...PALADIN!
Lvl 2 Spell Choices: Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendour, Owl's Wisdom, Angelskin, Remove Paralysis AND Finally the only one of any use whatsoever - Resist Energy!

Bull's Strength - What Paladin in Today's game is gonna use this past Lvl 6? Oh sorry Pallies don't get Lvl 2 Spells that early!

Owl's Wisdom and Eagle's Splendour - Again +4 Stat Items abound from Lvl 7 onwards now!

Angelskin - Lol - Invuln is far more useful below Lvl 10, Spearblock or Axeblock after!

Remove Paralysis - Unusable on Self = Pointless!


Meanwhile - Lvl 4 Paladin Spells include Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Stalwart Pact, Break Enchantment and Holy Sword - None of which would be out of place at Lvl 8 {When Paladins actually get their first 2nd Lvl spell!}.
And all of which fall by the wayside as Lvl 4 Spell Choices {even the sword with new Loot changes}.

A Paladin gets a Maximum of 4 Spells of each level at Lvl 20!
The First three Lvl 4 Spells are going to be: Cure Serious, Deathward and Zeal for the Majority of Pure Paladins!
Whereas Lvl 2 - Only Resist Energy is likely to be afforded a slot {5 slots sorry} on your Hotbars!


I've got nothing against Rangers; Longstrider especially does need reviewing by the Devs - Anger's Step from Korthos gives 10 minutes {2 x 5} of Expeditious Retreat which is far faster!
BUT Let's not forget that there's One Class in DDO that when it comes to Spell Selection has it even worse!

[Archangel666]

Rangers have a ton of useless spells?

Erm...PALADIN!
Lvl 2 Spell Choices: Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendour, Owl's Wisdom, Angelskin, Remove Paralysis AND Finally the only one of any use whatsoever - Resist Energy!

Bull's Strength - What Paladin in Today's game is gonna use this past Lvl 6? Oh sorry Pallies don't get Lvl 2 Spells that early!

Owl's Wisdom and Eagle's Splendour - Again +4 Stat Items abound from Lvl 7 onwards now!

Angelskin - Lol - Invuln is far more useful below Lvl 10, Spearblock or Axeblock after!

Remove Paralysis - Unusable on Self = Pointless!


Meanwhile - Lvl 4 Paladin Spells include Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Stalwart Pact, Break Enchantment and Holy Sword - None of which would be out of place at Lvl 8 {When Paladins actually get their first 2nd Lvl spell!}.
And all of which fall by the wayside as Lvl 4 Spell Choices {even the sword with new Loot changes}.

A Paladin gets a Maximum of 4 Spells of each level at Lvl 20!
The First three Lvl 4 Spells are going to be: Cure Serious, Deathward and Zeal for the Majority of Pure Paladins!
Whereas Lvl 2 - Only Resist Energy is likely to be afforded a slot {5 slots sorry} on your Hotbars!


I've got nothing against Rangers; Longstrider especially does need reviewing by the Devs - Anger's Step from Korthos gives 10 minutes {2 x 5} of Expeditious Retreat which is far faster!
BUT Let's not forget that there's One Class in DDO that when it comes to Spell Selection has it even worse!

I have no problem whatsoever with your comment. Pally's are indeed worse off, but honestly not by much.

For me the list of useful Ranger spells are about the same as the list of Pally ones.

Resists (Useful if someone dies or if a quest or something takes longer than an hour, also useful for new players without a guild or in a low level one, but other than that? Not so much).

Ram's Might (Stacking +2 to STR, no problems with this one, it's a useful spell that scales with the caster and so stays useful).

Protection from Energy (Situationally useful, though more so at lower levels than higher due to incoming damage at that level, also somewhat redundant if in a party with a Divine or Arcane who simply use the Mass version that gives all of them at once).

Freedom of Movement (Don't even get me started on the nerf to FoM. Still, since I have it, I may as well cast it, not like I have any other choices for the spell level).

Barkskin (Barely useful and superseded by the Druid's Spiderskin spell).

Camoflage and the Mass version (Situationally useful while soloing or in the unlikely event that you end up in a group that actually uses Stealth. Main purpose in general play? Removing the wood look from Barkskin).

Jump (No issues here, everyone likes Jump).

Tumble (On the whole, useless except for fun, situationally useful in things like Reaver's Fate for reducing fall damage slightly).

Pass Without Trace (See Camoflage)

Neutralize Poison and Remove Disease (Situationally useful, though for the most part it makes more sense to just use pots like everyone else rather than waste the spell points that could go towards a Cure Serious Wounds.

Cure Light, Moderate, Serious Wounds (Useful, no arguments here, would be nice to have a choice between these and the Vigor versions though).

Cats Grace, Bears Endurance, Owls Wisdom (lol, just lol)


My personal favourite of all of the Ranger spells though on the list of "What's the bloody point?" would definitely be a spell gained at level 14:

Summon Nature's Ally 4 (Summons a CR 4 Young Razorcat. CR 4 at level 14? The thing gets killed in Korthos!)

Rangers and Pally's desperately need looking at when it comes to spells. The only thing Pally's have going for them over Rangers is that you're much less likely to see a 6 Pally/14 Something Else than you are a 6 Ranger/14 Something Else.

[FranOhmsford]

I have no problem whatsoever with your comment. Pally's are indeed worse off, but honestly not by much.

For me the list of useful Ranger spells are about the same as the list of Pally ones.

Resists (Useful if someone dies or if a quest or something takes longer than an hour, also useful for new players without a guild or in a low level one, but other than that? Not so much).

I'd still say that Resists are an absolute must for anyone who can cast them to have loaded!
You never know when you're gonna need em!


Ram's Might (Stacking +2 to STR, no problems with this one, it's a useful spell that scales with the caster and so stays useful).

New Issue - Druids get this at Lvl 1!
Rangers have to wait till Lvl 4!

It's no longer a Ranger Only Buff!


Protection from Energy (Situationally useful, though more so at lower levels than higher due to incoming damage at that level, also somewhat redundant if in a party with a Divine or Arcane who simply use the Mass version that gives all of them at once).

Freedom of Movement (Don't even get me started on the nerf to FoM. Still, since I have it, I may as well cast it, not like I have any other choices for the spell level).

With you on both of these - I feel that Rangers should perhaps get the Mass Version of Prot instead {at the lesser level}!


Barkskin (Barely useful and superseded by the Druid's Spiderskin spell).

Uh? What?
Spiderskin's a terrible spell!
Even at lvl 10-14 I'm still using Bark on my Druids over Spider!
When does this change exactly?


Camoflage and the Mass version (Situationally useful while soloing or in the unlikely event that you end up in a group that actually uses Stealth. Main purpose in general play? Removing the wood look from Barkskin).

Camo's a complete Joke - We all know this!


Jump (No issues here, everyone likes Jump).

Aye


Tumble (On the whole, useless except for fun, situationally useful in things like Reaver's Fate for reducing fall damage slightly).

Aye


Pass Without Trace (See Camoflage)

This was added with Druid right?
Just one more Spell that won't get a Hotbar slot!


Neutralize Poison and Remove Disease (Situationally useful, though for the most part it makes more sense to just use pots like everyone else rather than waste the spell points that could go towards a Cure Serious Wounds.

Cure Light, Moderate, Serious Wounds (Useful, no arguments here, would be nice to have a choice between these and the Vigor versions though).

I honestly feel that with the Power-Game of DDO Paladins and Rangers should get the useful Curatives at Levels where Clerics etc. can't fit them in!

Prot Elements as noted above should replace Prot Energy for Rangers!
Neutralize Poison, Remove Disease, Remove Curse etc. should be brought down to spell levels equal to when a Cleric gets said spells!
So Basically...As Rangers and Paladins get Lvl 2 Spells at Lvl 7-8 this is where I feel those spells belong!

The Cleric Can't fit them in -The Ranger or Paladin CAN!


Cats Grace, Bears Endurance, Owls Wisdom (lol, just lol)

Aye..Just like Paladins with Bull's, Owl's, Eagle's.
These spells are utterly useless by the time these classes can even cast them!


My personal favourite of all of the Ranger spells though on the list of "What's the bloody point?" would definitely be a spell gained at level 14:

Summon Nature's Ally 4 (Summons a CR 4 Young Razorcat. CR 4 at level 14? The thing gets killed in Korthos!)

ALL Summons need reviewing BUT Rangers most of all!


Rangers and Pally's desperately need looking at when it comes to spells. The only thing Pally's have going for them over Rangers is that you're much less likely to see a 6 Pally/14 Something Else than you are a 6 Ranger/14 Something Else.

I'm personally waiting for the Enhancement update in the hope {vain though it may be} that Radiant HotD becomes a Reality!
Still - Cleric 12, Paladin 6 and either Fighter or Monk 2 seems to me like it should work {whether it does in DDO or not is a different story!}.

As for Rangers - I've said this too many times to count now...
Pure Ranger is the Red-Headed Stepchild of DDO!
Tempest III no-one takes!
Deepwood = Lol!
AA = Monkcher, Bardcher, Fighter Kensaicher!
Whatevercher - BUT rarely Ranger!

P.S. A Pure Ranger AA is a sight to behold when played properly {something I for one will never be able to do} - This Prestige isn't that bad off {apart from Player Perceptions that is}.
Tempest and Deepwood however need serious Re-Work!

[Archangel666]

I'd still say that Resists are an absolute must for anyone who can cast them to have loaded!
You never know when you're gonna need em!

Oh, don't get me wrong, I have it permanently loaded and on a hotbar with each separated. I did say it was useful if someone dies etc, but for the most part Ship Buffs cover this.


New Issue - Druids get this at Lvl 1!
Rangers have to wait till Lvl 4!

It's no longer a Ranger Only Buff!

Yeah, I have a Druid too.



Uh? What?
Spiderskin's a terrible spell!
Even at lvl 10-14 I'm still using Bark on my Druids over Spider!
When does this change exactly?


It doesn't come into its own until fairly high level, but Barkskin caps at +5 while Spiderskin caps at +6.


This was added with Druid right?
Just one more Spell that won't get a Hotbar slot!


Yup. They added it when Druids came out (They also gave Rangers Animal Growth as a Fourth Level spell, which quite frankly is pretty useless even if you make use of Improved Wild Empathy, which incidentally cannot be cancelled, because someone forgot to give that Feat to Rangers...).




I honestly feel that with the Power-Game of DDO Paladins and Rangers should get the useful Curatives at Levels where Clerics etc. can't fit them in!

Prot Elements as noted above should replace Prot Energy for Rangers!
Neutralize Poison, Remove Disease, Remove Curse etc. should be brought down to spell levels equal to when a Cleric gets said spells!
So Basically...As Rangers and Paladins get Lvl 2 Spells at Lvl 7-8 this is where I feel those spells belong!

The Cleric Can't fit them in -The Ranger or Paladin CAN!


No arguments from me on this at all.



As for Rangers - I've said this too many times to count now...
Pure Ranger is the Red-Headed Stepchild of DDO!
Tempest III no-one takes!
Deepwood = Lol!
AA = Monkcher, Bardcher, Fighter Kensaicher!
Whatevercher - BUT rarely Ranger!

P.S. A Pure Ranger AA is a sight to behold when played properly {something I for one will never be able to do} - This Prestige isn't that bad off {apart from Player Perceptions that is}.
Tempest and Deepwood however need serious Re-Work!

Yeah, I have one. Pure level 20 (well, technically 23, holding 24 and 25) Ranger AA.

I play it because I prefer pure classes on the whole, not because of any delusions of power.

Where my Ranger really shines is in endurance type scenarios. It just keeps going (Especially with Con Op and Fast Healing). Sadly Endurance type scenarios are quite rare in DDO, because there's Shrines 'round every corner. It does make Slayer Areas a joke though, you can be out there for hours on end and finish off all of the mobs in something like the Kings Forest without ever needing to shrine.