If given the choice...

[FranOhmsford]

If the devs were to say to us "We're going to condense the Necropolis I-III into 1 Epic Chain with 6 Flaggin quests and 1 Raid{Yes Raid!}.

Which quests would you vote to keep?
And which End quest would you vote to be turned into a Raid?

My Votes...

Tomb of the Crimson Heart {I like this quest a lot - Random Runes and everything}
Tomb of the Immortal Heart {Epic - The Optionals would have to be made None-Optional}
Tomb of the Shadow Guard {The Swimming is Cathartic - The Fights would be amazing on Epic}
Tomb of the Shadow Knight {A Trapper's Dream come True - 90+ DCs on Epic Elite a MUST!}
Tomb of the Shadow Lord {Best of the three MUST TAKE more than one person quests}
Tomb of the Tormented {Actually a pretty good quest compared to the rest of Necro III}

Raid - The Bloody Crypt! {PnP D&D at it's best!}

[Mastikator]

More than anything I'd demand a refund for the quests I purchased.

[ddobard1]

More than anything I'd demand a refund for the quests I purchased.

this^^

[Keylon]

I'd never set foot in the necropolis again.

[Failedlegend]

Am I the only person who loves the Necro quests...some of them are hard as balls and highly unfair at times but its so satisfying once you beat them and are just an interesting experience.

[susiedupfer]

OP- it may have escaped your notice, but Necro I, II, IV provide a great deal of XP on TR lives. Changing these packs to what you describe would result in a LOT of gnashing of teeth and foaming at the mouth on the part of those on a completionist path, or indeed, anyone(like me) who TR's quite a bit.

I do, somewhat, understand your desire for the devs to give a little love to some seldom played quests(Tomb of the Tormented), but there are very valid reasons why these are played little. And I do appreciate that you enjoy the slow, thorough approach to dungeon crawls. However, the current list of TR XP farms requires these dungeons to remain much the same as they are. And the devs(though I do appreciate that these are some very smart and hard working people) are not well known to leave well enough alone. Once they start fooling in an area, they "fix" what is not broken.

[Silverwren]

I'm of the mind that Necropolis needs rework. About the only thing I ever do there is the Orchard.

So, yes. Your idea sounds as good as any other for a revamp. I might swap Tormented for some other one though. The only ones tormented in that one are the players.

[Dhalgren]

I'm of the mind that Necropolis needs rework. About the only thing I ever do there is the Orchard.

That's you. What about the rest of us?

[Wipey]

That's you. What about the rest of us?
Was going to say this. Necro 1 flags + Bloody Crypt, Shadow Crypt and Necro 4 ( especially now when people might want to avoid farming GH ) are popular and run by every TR.
Some of the best quests ( yes, even rats, once ! :)) in the game.

[TrinityTurtle]

The only necro quest I really despise is the rat one/tormented. And through patience and a really good map off the wiki I have reached the point where I can even solo that one if I can't find other fun people to share the hell with me. I like the rest, and would be sad to see it go.

Furthermore, they area great source of silver flame xp for those that rely on the pots to self heal.

[fco-karatekid]

OP- it may have escaped your notice, but Necro I, II, IV provide a great deal of XP on TR lives. Changing these packs to what you describe would result in a LOT of gnashing of teeth and foaming at the mouth on the part of those on a completionist path, or indeed, anyone(like me) who TR's quite a bit.

I do, somewhat, understand your desire for the devs to give a little love to some seldom played quests(Tomb of the Tormented), but there are very valid reasons why these are played little. And I do appreciate that you enjoy the slow, thorough approach to dungeon crawls. However, the current list of TR XP farms requires these dungeons to remain much the same as they are. And the devs(though I do appreciate that these are some very smart and hard working people) are not well known to leave well enough alone. Once they start fooling in an area, they "fix" what is not broken.

+1 - only quest in that chain I highly dislike running now is Tormented because my enjoyment of the puzzle wears off while waiting on the rats.

Maybe if they sped them up, I'd like it more. I just don't find standing still doing nothing fun.

The design was great, the execution is boring.

But the last sentence is so true.

[Cyndrome]

That's you. What about the rest of us?

That's not just him. There are a lot of us that are like minded.

[Cyndrome]

The only necro quest I really despise is the rat one/tormented. And through patience and a really good map off the wiki I have reached the point where I can even solo that one if I can't find other fun people to share the hell with me. I like the rest, and would be sad to see it go.

Furthermore, they area great source of silver flame xp for those that rely on the pots to self heal.

Rats was more fun to me when you could bb the stuff in the maze. I am sure there are other ways to deal with them other than luring them away (which does not work as well as advertised), but I skip it now. If the last maze was an optional for more xp I would probably run the quest but skip the optional.

Even though the quest is such a pain- you have to admit it's design is way more interesting than any quest that has come out in the past three years.

[FranOhmsford]

I get the feeling many of you have missed the point.


More than anything I'd demand a refund for the quests I purchased.


OP- it may have escaped your notice, but Necro I, II, IV provide a great deal of XP on TR lives. Changing these packs to what you describe would result in a LOT of gnashing of teeth and foaming at the mouth on the part of those on a completionist path, or indeed, anyone(like me) who TR's quite a bit.

I do, somewhat, understand your desire for the devs to give a little love to some seldom played quests(Tomb of the Tormented), but there are very valid reasons why these are played little. And I do appreciate that you enjoy the slow, thorough approach to dungeon crawls. However, the current list of TR XP farms requires these dungeons to remain much the same as they are. And the devs(though I do appreciate that these are some very smart and hard working people) are not well known to leave well enough alone. Once they start fooling in an area, they "fix" what is not broken.

Did I say anything about the base quests being removed from the game?

I have characters on their 2nd lives and there's plenty of Lvl 5 and 6 quests - So many that if you Run an Elite Streak from Korthos you'll hit the wall at lvl 8 and have to take 9 BEFORE completing all the Lvl 6 quests {This on a 2nd Life}!
And that's with NO Repetition whatsoever!

I already ignore Carnival so it's there for Epic!

BUT Again - I said NOTHING about removing the base quests!

I was talking about creating an Epic Version of Necropolis I-III that wouldn't be Unwieldy! 12 flags and 3 End-Quests!

When Sands was Epicced was there a wailing and Gnashing of Teeth that the Walkups weren't Epicced? I know I'd love to run Epic Purge the Fallen Shrine for one!
Does ANYONE complain that they can't run Wiz King, CoF or OoB at Level because of Epic?

NO!
This is a new thing inspired by the Devs messing up Gianthold {Yes I said it - They messed up GH}!
And also by the Devs insistence on rushing to Lvl 28 so soon without adding in enough quests from 17-25 to make the journey anything other than a grind!

Silver Flame Favour btw is just as available to TRs by running Epic Elites as by running Heroic Elites {Considering I have Multiple Epic characters who haven't hit 400 SF Favour yet I doubt saving those quests for Epic would even make a difference to most players}.


Lastly - I run EVERY quest from lvl 1-8 on EVERY character {This includes the Necro I and II Flags}.
AND I put an LFM up for those Necro II flags EVERY time! {Not so much for Necro I which I can solo all four in 20 mins given luck with Runes and Baby Zombies}.
It's rare I get anyone hit those LFMs!
As soon as I put Shadow Crypt up however...Boom!
Where are all these people who'd be put out by the loss of the Necro II flags at Heroic levels? There'll always be 1st lifers willing to flag for Shadow Crypt so y'all can redbox it!


tbh however - the idea of the thread was more to see which quests people would choose as the best from those 3 packs {as everyone professes to hate each and every flag}.
The Epic thing was just to give an Excuse for the vote!

I personally do prefer Bloody to Shadow and Cursed {I loathe Cursed Crypt}.

BUT it seems the fallout from Epic GH and imminent Lvl 28 is too recent - The wounds too deep.

[Cyndrome]

I get the feeling many of you have missed the point.





Did I say anything about the base quests being removed from the game?



No Fran- You missed susiedupfer's point. I want Necro I-IV left alone. The last time they touched Necro III they ruined Tormented. If they want to tinker with something they can go to Restless Isles.

[zwiebelring]

Necropolis is played because of its xp. Not because the stories are seen as awesome. If they changed the flagging mechanics so people could flag only once and repeat the last quests indefinitely more people were happier :).

For the OP suggestion:
I so did not care about that new raid and I was very angry if they took away my TR grounds for low level.

[bigolbear]

Am I the only person who loves the Necro quests...some of them are hard as balls and highly unfair at times but its so satisfying once you beat them and are just an interesting experience.

no mate your not. I love em too.

They have that 'old school pen n paper feel'.

The only one there I dislike is toomb of the tormented - and I love the concept there, I enjoy puzzels but its just a bit too much of the same and boring for the rest of the group.

@ the op.

If they removed these quests id be very upset and vocal about it.

If they made a bunch of them epic but not the rest id wonder why! It already irks me that some great quests out in the sands never get seen past lvl 12 but the big flagging quests are epic.

And as for the raid - Id have us go back in time...

the plot: the black dragon in litany is infact an agent of argonessan, he has been tasked with helping the abbot to stop sorjek (thats right folks the abbot was actualy a good guy.....he became a lich so hed still be around to play his part in the prophesy, alass... power and lichdom corrupts.)

He sends us back in time to prevent the betrayal of kai-teng and allow the abbot to remain good despite lichdom(he instead becomes a member of the undying vanguard). We then return to the near present where we help the abbot secure access reavers refuge and disrupt a critical part of the ritual that turns sorjek into a lich.

Completing this raid grants us an item that can only be used in fall of truth and then only by one party memeber - it summons the abbot to assist in combat vs the truthfull one and the abbot takes the place of the storm reaver locking the truthful one in eternal prison.

EDIT:
Would love to see the utter devastation epic elite fight in the light would cause ;)

[FranOhmsford]

No Fran- You missed susiedupfer's point. I want Necro I-IV left alone. The last time they touched Necro III they ruined Tormented. If they want to tinker with something they can go to Restless Isles.


OP- it may have escaped your notice, but Necro I, II, IV provide a great deal of XP on TR lives. Changing these packs to what you describe would result in a LOT of gnashing of teeth and foaming at the mouth on the part of those on a completionist path, or indeed, anyone(like me) who TR's quite a bit.

I do, somewhat, understand your desire for the devs to give a little love to some seldom played quests(Tomb of the Tormented), but there are very valid reasons why these are played little. And I do appreciate that you enjoy the slow, thorough approach to dungeon crawls. However, the current list of TR XP farms requires these dungeons to remain much the same as they are. And the devs(though I do appreciate that these are some very smart and hard working people) are not well known to leave well enough alone. Once they start fooling in an area, they "fix" what is not broken.

So you completely ignore the rest of Susie's post {which I was replying to btw} and insist that her point was simply the last 2/1/2 lines?

Here you go - "However, the current list of TR XP farms requires these dungeons to remain much the same as they are."
That's the sentence immediately before the 2 1/2 lines you concentrated on!


It seems to me that too many people are concentrating on some potential XP loss!
And ignoring that this stems from the Devs insistence on rushing Epic Levels! {Incl GH}!

I always feel strange when the slightest criticism of Necropolis quests on these forums is instantly rebutted by so many people saying they love these quests.
Well if that is so then why are groups so hard to find?
Why do i find myself 3/4 of the way thru Shadow Guard regularly before even ONE person hits my LFM? {Which BTW is usually something like Necro Flags Elite BB IP Pt1 - and the IP Pt1 bit doesn't get put in for a good 5-10 minutes either!}.
Why do I no longer even bother to put up an LFM for Necro I flags? {Having usually finished the four before anyone hit it anyway}.
Why is it that the ONLY LFMs I see for Necro III Flags {and Cursed Crypt for that matter} the Leader is between Lvl 18 and 25 and asking for a Guide?

Oh yes and I've ended up guiding a Cursed Crypt run or two even though I barely know said quest because no-one else in the group knows it at all!
As for Shadow Crypt - I'm very very glad of DDOWiki's Instance Paths page - Very Very glad indeed!


BUT AGAIN - The Original Post was simply me asking which Necro quests people actually liked {I used the Epicification as a convenient Lure BUT it seems as I said at the end of my first reply that the wounds from Epic Lvl 28 and GH are just too fresh!

[Cyndrome]

Well if that is so then why are groups so hard to find?
Why do i find myself 3/4 of the way thru Shadow Guard regularly before even ONE person hits my LFM? {Which BTW is usually something like Necro Flags Elite BB IP Pt1 - and the IP Pt1 bit doesn't get put in for a good 5-10 minutes either!}.
Why do I no longer even bother to put up an LFM for Necro I flags? {Having usually finished the four before anyone hit it anyway}.
Why is it that the ONLY LFMs I see for Necro III Flags {and Cursed Crypt for that matter} the Leader is between Lvl 18 and 25 and asking for a Guide?



Maybe the problem with your groups not filling is not with the quests.

All of my Necropolis groups fill.

[Sonos]

I get the feeling many of you have missed the point.





Did I say anything about the base quests being removed from the game?

I have characters on their 2nd lives and there's plenty of Lvl 5 and 6 quests - So many that if you Run an Elite Streak from Korthos you'll hit the wall at lvl 8 and have to take 9 BEFORE completing all the Lvl 6 quests {This on a 2nd Life}!
And that's with NO Repetition whatsoever!

I would venture to say that a lot of pushback would not have been from 2nd lifers. 2nd life is still a breeze. 3rd life there is plenty of xp for a lot of low level stuff, but when you want to cap quickly, you want the Bloody Crypt farm, you want the ShadowCrypt farm, best xp per rank in the game.



NO!
This is a new thing inspired by the Devs messing up Gianthold {Yes I said it - They messed up GH}!
And also by the Devs insistence on rushing to Lvl 28 so soon without adding in enough quests from 17-25 to make the journey anything other than a grind!

From most accounts, GH was a success, don't know that you'd get a lot of sympathetic ears there.



Lastly - I run EVERY quest from lvl 1-8 on EVERY character {This includes the Necro I and II Flags}.
AND I put an LFM up for those Necro II flags EVERY time! {Not so much for Necro I which I can solo all four in 20 mins given luck with Runes and Baby Zombies}.
It's rare I get anyone hit those LFMs!
As soon as I put Shadow Crypt up however...Boom!
Where are all these people who'd be put out by the loss of the Necro II flags at Heroic levels? There'll always be 1st lifers willing to flag for Shadow Crypt so y'all can redbox it!

I farm Shadow Knight as well if I have trap skills the xp is just as good as ShadowCrypt with optionals, albeit it takes a little longer.




BUT it seems the fallout from Epic GH and imminent Lvl 28 is too recent - The wounds too deep.

I don't see a lot of fallout from Epic GH, the issues mainly being the update bugs and not the content itself.

[FranOhmsford]

Maybe the problem with your groups not filling is not with the quests.

All of my Necropolis groups fill.

Wow!

So now you resort to personal attacks?

A 10th Lvl Paladin {2nd life} puts a Shadow Flags Elite BB run up and No One joins {BTW this has happened on TWO servers {Sarlona AND Cannith} and it's my fault?

A Lvl 7 Cleric puts a Necro I Flags LFG up {with a Rogue also in group} and the two of us end up Duo-ing all four!
I didn't bother putting the LFG back up for Bloody Crypt!
And it's my fault?

Just Wow!

[Cyndrome]

Wow!

So now you resort to personal attacks?



I am sorry. I in no way intended to hurt your feeling or make you feel insulted. Perhaps my command of English is at fault.

I was just saying that my groups for all of Necro always fill. It might be that most of them fill from within my small guild and channels before they even make the LFM panel. It might just be that I have a larger support system that likes running the quests I run, and that I know a lot of people that just like running with me. I am not saying that people do not like running with you Fran, nor am I saying that you do not have any friends. I really do not know why your groups do not fill, and I have no desire to test it empirically. Though, I would be happy to dissect your group filling problems further if you give us more data.

[Phidius]

The only change I want to see to the Necropolis is for them to open up all the rooms in the Tomb of the Tormented, so that when I run it in a group the other 5 people aren't sitting around picking their noses while one person solos the puzzle.

[Sonos]

The only change I want to see to the Necropolis is for them to open up all the rooms in the Tomb of the Tormented, so that when I run it in a group the other 5 people aren't sitting around picking their noses while one person solos the puzzle.


Or make the new etiquette of paying the puzzlemaster 20k plat to pike the mazes :P

I'd gladly pay it.

100k a pop for 5 people

[Phidius]

Or make the new etiquette of paying the puzzlemaster 20k plat to pike the mazes :P

I'd gladly pay it.

100k a pop for 5 people

Tempting, if for no other reason than it would spawn a new tradition of coming to the forums to complain about people charging other people to pike while they farm the XP and favor for them :D

[danzig138]

and run by every TR. That's simply not true. I have not run them on any TR. Because they suck. One should not make assumptions about the entire player base.

[susiedupfer]

No Fran- You missed susiedupfer's point. I want Necro I-IV left alone. The last time they touched Necro III they ruined Tormented. If they want to tinker with something they can go to Restless Isles.

And I was not clear enough. Mea culpa. What I meant is that we do NOT, under ANY circumstances, need for the devs to move any more quests into the, "don't run more than once so you do not ruin your epic XP" catagory. If they would simply reset the repetition counter at level 20, you would find MUCH less resistance to this idea. I will, however, stick firmly to my statement that devs fix what is not broken. And, I really, really do not want them to "fix" the chance to get xp from those quests.

[Musouka]

More than anything I'd demand a refund for the quests I purchased.

Agreed.

Plus, I don't agree with all of these personal opinions by the OP.

[kierg10]

Wow!

So now you resort to personal attacks?

A 10th Lvl Paladin {2nd life} puts a Shadow Flags Elite BB run up and No One joins {BTW this has happened on TWO servers {Sarlona AND Cannith} and it's my fault?

A Lvl 7 Cleric puts a Necro I Flags LFG up {with a Rogue also in group} and the two of us end up Duo-ing all four!
I didn't bother putting the LFG back up for Bloody Crypt!
And it's my fault?

Just Wow!


on two seperate servers noone will join your groups for necro........either bad timezone or you got a rep...

also not signed