melee-healer/dot

[Kza]

Hello, what do ppl Think of this? I have been bored on my paladin (groljer), so i have Tr:ed him to a cleric type.

17cleric 2 paladin 1 fighter (human)

stats: str16 dex 14 int10 cha14 con 14 wis14

pastlives: 1 monk 1 ranger 2 paladin

feats (melee) Power attack cleave great cleave overhelming crit improved crit (5)
(heal/dot) empover heal empower maximize quicken (5)
(lazy) extend (for ppl not as lazy probably 2handed fighting better ? (1)

1 human 1 fighter 1 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 = 11

Playstyle: be a pally but with way stronger heals and better utility to kill things wia dots and even gimp bb:s (and be able to join any pug raid on any diff as dedicated healer)

My question: do any see any improvements in feats or something else?

[Whesper]

Actually looks rather decent. Extend is very meh, but if it's for convenience, why not :) Could drop it and change to helf and grab monk dilly for a bit more hamp I guess, but it would be a minor improvement.

[Kza]

Actually looks rather decent. Extend is very meh, but if it's for convenience, why not :) Could drop it and change to helf and grab monk dilly for a bit more hamp I guess, but it would be a minor improvement.

Y i agree, its better wo if you like to play Active and smash buttons, i am too old nowadays and like extend even after big sad nerf on bb, wof etc on it. (i Think it should be reverted back, let dots, barriers and Clouds etc be affected of it. Think some on all us oldies that start get grey and cant renew Everything every 10 sec :-)

So ok, any change that is good except my flavor of including extend :-) ?

[firemedium_jt]

For Melee Clerics this is becoming more popular for more feats.

CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2

The Wiz1 I like early cause it gives you what you need from the FTR1 with just casting Master's Touch spell on your held weapon for proficiency. You get more Meta feats earlier. You get Force Manipulation 1 with just one Wiz lvl (the game info is wrong) for 40 spell power to blade barrier which is relied on for a Wis dump divine with no spell pen.

You need Toughness early. Level 1.

More feats gives you THF and ITHF.

You can also go CLR17/MNK2/?

How you lvl up your stats is just flavor.
I would dump dex, chr and take more STR and WIS. WIS still helps your DCs against trash even if you don't up it during lvls. INT9 if you take WIZ1 early. I would not splash more than one lvl till you get CLR17. You do not want to wait on CLR17.

I rarely run out of turn undead. With Prestige enhancements they regenerate.

As for extend. Dump it by lvl 6-9. Just buy a bunch of Divine Power items to click. Keep one hot keyed for surprise attacks. I fun most of my Clerics with melee and I very rarely cast Divine Power Spell. Heck my 'to hit' is good enough in epic I just click a Divine Power item for attack speed when needed.

Don't gimp your Smiting enhancements. Divine Punishment is your best boss weapon as a healer that might not melee all the time. Even though you are a melee Cleric and built that way. You still have a role in a good group if they have enough melee's (that are decent pugs at low lvl?) to hang back, stay alive and heal mostly.


______________________________
forward from another thread:


The Epic Generalist


The bit with this build was he pulled a WIS+4 tome from TOD, but is a first life with no spell pen past lives. I took enough STR just for Overwhelming Critical and the rest into Wisdom to help my BB DCs and blinding for Holy Smite.

I took WIS3 and Life of the Magic 4 so far. Dumped Scroll Mastery 2 and HV2



++++ For all in melee just max STR with all lvl ups in STR. Dump Heighten. Take GTHF@lvl24. Dump Life of the Magic 4 and WIS1/2/3 for Human Versatility and extra turning, and scroll mastery 2. ++++



Well this is how I would build it from scratch:

Only thing is should I dump Wisdom 3 enhancement worth 6 points for extra turning2 and life of the magic 4?

If my spells don't hit with Heighten and increases from epic destinies to spell focus I will just up STR and trade Heighten for Greater Two Handed Fighting on this build. If BB and other non spell resistant spells might hit for full damage in EN or EH with this build is the goal for the split between WIS and STR.

ED track is Exalted Angel for more spell points and Renewal for raid healing to lvl4 then Unyielding Sentinal active and key of desitinies to get over to Legendary Dreadnought to lvl5 Headman's Chop.

Draconic Incarnation active then for more spell focus or maybe Magister if necerssary ya think?

Epic feats:
Overwhelming Critical
Improved Two Handed Fighting



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

The Epic Generalist Perfbuild
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 17 Cleric \ 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 292
Spell Points: 1178
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 4
Will: 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 25
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 16 26
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3 (from auction house)

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 0 9
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 6 25
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 3 10
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 4 7
Listen 3 8
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 3 8
Swim 4 7
Tumble 0 0
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I




The INT tome is for lvl1 Wizard spell Master's Touch if you take the Wizard Lvl early and you just need a INT+2 item then.

[Kinerd]

The THF chain will give you more DPS than the OC chain.

Consider that in 5 seconds you auto-attack about 8 times with a THF. With GTHF, we have:
8 full attacks on main target
6 glances on main and surrounding targets at 50% damage

With Cleaves & OC, we have:
8 full+ attacks on main target
2 full+ attacks on surrounding targets
4 glances on main and surrounding targets at 20% damage

For main target, we have...
.95 * (2 * 50% + 4 * 30%) vs. 8 * 10%
2.09 > .8

For surrounding targets, our equation is weapon-specific, so we introduce C for critical profile...
(2 * 50% + 4 * 30%) vs. 2 * C
2.09 vs 2 * C

The best base THF value for C is 27/20 = 1.35 for a falchion with OC. That gives us...
2.09 < 2.7

And now we can solve for how many targets you would have to hit on average for the OC chain to be superior...
1.29 / .61 = 2.11

Or looking at it another way, every time you swing and only hit one target you have to have another time where you swing and hit three targets to make up for it, and you'll still be behind. GTHF is the way to go.

.

firemedium's build that allows 5 feat slots for these 6 feats benefits most from having GTHF and both Cleaves. For THF especially, OC is overrated.

[firemedium_jt]

With Cleaves & OC, we have:
8 full+ attacks on main target
2 full+ attacks on surrounding targets
4 glances on main and surrounding targets at 20% damage


My build has ITHF for 40% not 20%


I agree GTHF is better than OC for multiple targets. Against single target boss though?

But, because this build has a WIS+4 tome has some wisdom I had to get Heighten in there. And I am not sure I am going to keep it. I might LR and dump wisdom and dump Heighten and take GTHF.

Now against a boss or red/orange name I like OC better. I got so much with mobs with my BB that I wanted more damage against a single target.

If I understand you right? I think OC is better against single targets. Against mobs GTHF is better, but how much do u need against mobs when I have my blender (blade barrier) doing full damage to those with low reflex?

Are you saying that GTHF is better also against a single target? The diff between ITHF and GTHF didn't seem like much except I know you get an extra attack in there, but they do not always hit. OC on a 19-20 will more than likely hit and with seeker items confirm the critical.

The best thing about Cleaves is that when you critical it goes to all the targets? That is what I see. That is a lot of damage.

Cleaves apply cursespewing and Paralyzer to all targets if they fail their save.

Are you talking about Cleave,GCleave OC vs. the THF set or




Are those numbers... Cleave/Gcleave/THF/ITHF, OC vs. Cleave/GCleave/THF/ITHF, GTHF?
or
Cleave,Gcleave, OC vs. THF,ITHF, GTHF?
?
?
?
Cause all my guy is missing is the last GTHF. That is only 40% vs. 50%.
Now the extra attack on the 3rd swing by GTHF almost made me take GTHF instead of OC, but targets don't always stand still for me to stand still. How often do you get more than the 1st glancing?

So it is really about:

2 out of 4 glances at 40% + OC
vs.
3 out of 4 glances at 50%, and only if you are standing still for all 4 attacks (1st,3rd,4th), and have less of a chance of hitting on glances.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Glancing_blow
http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Two_Handed_Fighting
http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Two_Handed_Fighting


And there is the kisser.



***You have to be standing still for glancing blows!***
*
*
*

And really what about twitching???
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=334519
?
?
Resetting Momentum Swing and Lay Waste is probably more important than GB?

[Kza]

Hello and thanks for nice feedback.

Yes, getting 2 more feats + evasion + more damage on bb is really nice. I considered those builds Before chosing 2 pally instead. Why i Went for 2 pally and getting +9 in save (if taking 2 monk and spending 1 feat on Lightning reflexes my build only get 4 more in reflex). I want to get rockethigh saves. So i trade dps for that.

Im not sure if it is "better" it might even be worse.

This is not my main, my main is a completionist and i play that much more often. So i Think those extra saves will make the build very solid.

Thanks alot on the info for THF chain vs cleave etc. Problem here is that cleave is so fun! I love spamming that. So hmm i start to Think that maybe drop extend anyway and go full thf + cleave or have extend and take 2 first thf + cleave. Hmm... choises :-)

(edit: i start to Think, drop extend take first in thf chain and full cleave great cleave + oc, just because so fun, instead of reverse :-)

[Adrian99]

You get Force Manipulation 1 with just one Wiz lvl (the game info is wrong) for 40 spell power to blade barrier...

I'm too lazy to dig up the post, but this theory has been tested and disproven. Class-based spell power enhancements only affect the spells of that class. So force manip will amp your magic missile, but not your blade barrier. Unless that changed in a recent update and no one noticed.

[firemedium_jt]

I did.

I found this but a year old. Do you have an update number that they changed it?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=365775&page=2


Since I have a cleric / arti character ....

I did do some testing when I hit BB level with it,
I went out and cast BB in the vale and watched the number against the famous 'rats'
Then went and got the force enhancements and went back to abuse said 'rats'
The numbers did go up by the expected amount :)

I also did the same testing with the light damage rune arms
For the 'charged up and fire' I saw an increase in damage :)
For the weapon added damage there was NOT an increase :(

Not quite the same as a Wiz / Sorc although I believe (hope) that the enhancements would act the same


I created a Cleric/Wiz character that I tested.

I had a level 14 cleric and this cleric at 14 cleric/1 Wiz and the BB (Cleric levels the same) and the enhancement did boost damage by 20%. The damage of the 14/1 was just below 300 (290'ish) and the pure was around 250. Granted I do not have the logs on this computer, but yes the 1 wiz does boost the damage to blade barrier and even flame strike with the fire dmg enhancement.

I would like them to change the wording in the enhancements though, because it says that character level is required to get to the crit lines or higher enhancements and in truth it is still tied to the wizard level.

[Kza]

Lil Groljer just used a stone and is now 17, so i start to Think of his gear. Since this is the last Life for him (hopefully) i am a tad wondering what to go for.

I want to have radiance devotion and impulse for spells (heals, dots and occasionally bb)
I want +7 or more in all stats, except int. (str, con and cha also insight atleast.)
I want to have hands free for any 2hander, even when i am raid healing.
I want to sceeze in as much melee dps and + in saves as possible and + prr.

Do any experienced item puzzler have a good build (like a selfhealing pally + radiance and impulse really methinks)

(Any items nomatter how hard to aquire is nice, i like to have things to aim for :-)

(i already have torc, if torc and con opp can be squeesed in it would be even funnier but not necessary after 6+ years you have some pots...)

And suggestions for good 2handers from 17 and upvards would be nice! (easy to aquire --> what to work for in long term)

[Kinerd]

My build has ITHF for 40% not 20%I did not make it clear enough, but the bulk of my post was directed specifically to the OP. For you...
I agree GTHF is better than OC for multiple targets. Against single target boss though?The key is that OC only works on your main blows, so over 20 hits on average you get +2 * base. Meanwhile GTHF gives you another glancing blow and soups up your glancing blows, which over 20 hits on average gets you (.25 * .5 [the new glancing blow] + .5 * .1 [souping up the existing glancing blows]) * 19 [auto-miss] = +3.325 * base... on single targets.

This does assume, as Chai so often despises, planting your feat and swinging for the fences. In my experience, this is representative of melee combat, but keep in mind that I do not play meleeing clerics, so it is conceivable that they engage in a lot more shuttle run melee. With that said, we can directly calculate how often you have to stand still for GTHF to be better: 2 / 3.325 = 60.2%, so if you're standing still about two thirds of the time go with GTHF.
Thanks alot on the info for THF chain vs cleave etc. Problem here is that cleave is so fun! I love spamming that.You are welcome, and I agree that it is definitely the case that Cleaving is more fun than boring old glancing blows.
And suggestions for good 2handers from 17 and upvards would be nice! (easy to aquire --> what to work for in long term)The #1 easy money THFer is the Epic Antique Greataxe out of the Phiarlan Carnival. Breaks every cool DR out of the box, has a jumbo [W] which ups the "I just got a huge number!" factor, the relevant quests are quite easy to grind, no raids involved.

[firemedium_jt]

The #1 easy money THFer is the Epic Antique Greataxe out of the Phiarlan Carnival. Breaks every cool DR out of the box, has a jumbo [W] which ups the "I just got a huge number!" factor, the relevant quests are quite easy to grind, no raids involved.

+1

The clerics when I melee can only take so much before they have to step out of the way. I usually cast bb to keep the boss from running but I have to Step out with too much aggro and back in cause I only have 500+ hp.

[Kza]

"This does assume, as Chai so often despises, planting your feat and swinging for the fences. In my experience, this is representative of melee combat, but keep in mind that I do not play meleeing clerics, so it is conceivable that they engage in a lot more shuttle run melee. With that said, we can directly calculate how often you have to stand still for GTHF to be better: 2 / 3.325 = 60.2%, so if you're standing still about two thirds of the time go with GTHF."

This may explain why i really like cleave. The Little i have grouped is like jump in cleave great cleave, throw masses and take care of ppl and then they out of cooldown swing again. (when this toon hits 25 i will try get it to lamania and try all different feat configs and check whats best for my playstyle)

Hmm on Epic antiq, i hoped there was some new fun faster to get 2hander from gianthold. But i agree, that one is nice, it feels so useless get a min2 while waiting but might be forced to do that, cry for all my greensteel dorfaxes collecting dust.

(18 now and have had a nice time, fun pugs on khyber, many great and nice players there, all elite vale was cake, but that was more of some ubba monk players, i had it relaxing)

Feels great have used a stone this Life, i havent touched gh so will get lots of xp from 20 and up there :-)

[firemedium_jt]

Momentum Swing and Lay waste are really nice attacks for tons of damage when they hit, and more likely to critical with increased critical multipliers and range. So far they do 1200-1300 a critical hit for my STR based Melee Divine with Overwhelming Critical.
Cleaves and Great Cleaves have a 50% chance of resetting the timer on them with full ED lines.

Cleaves reset your glancing blow attack sequence, so you only get one or possibly two in if you are "unlucky" enough to not reset your Momentum Swing and Lay Waste.

Maybe you mean the Fury of the Wild line with glancing blows, and none of the Legendary Dreadnought attacks?
I think most try to twist in Momentum Swing it seems.

I am interested in how FOTW plays in with LD. I see discussions on which is better. I would like to know how you guys mix in those destinies and twist them for the best DPS??


The Epic Destinies have changed many things for Divines. Now with those minor sacrifices on the Heroic side of casting or melee can go a longer way with Epic Destinies. Ie. I might drop ITHF on my Generalists for SF evoc to allow the SF Epic Destiny Enhancements. That was my original plan when I thought the Magister Line didn't need it. Having the feats for the ED enhancements gets you much more power than maxing out the Heroic feat lines or staying pure. Even maybe the Spell Pen builds with Epic Spell Pen feat and the Spell pen Epic Destiny enhancements means losing one Spell Pen from a splash is not as bad as a percentage.

______________________________________________

As a Divine Melee with only 500-600+ HP I find my technique is to not stand still for long periods of time. As the only Divine in the group I just can't stay still and melee for those glancing blows when I have to keep myself alive. I don't like getting hit and coming close to death unless there is another Divine that is casting mass heals while I burst and aura.

So I swing and cleaves and reset my timers. When my MS or LW hits along with my Divine Punishment (triple stack) I pull aggro and my hitpoints go down even with 100% fortification.

I simply jump out and back slightly. Slightly cause you don't want to kite. Heal myself while in the air and charge back in if the boss does not go through the Blade Barrier I was using to hold him in a spot. This also works if you want to heal a tank or melee and don't want to stand still in the thick of melee getting hit. Cause while healing someone else you could get hit and die if you stand there next to the boss or monster.

As the only Divine in the group responsible for healing for me to melee standing still is a bad idea most of the time, IMHO.

[firemedium_jt]

delete. multi post

[Phidius]

...(i Think it should be reverted back, let dots, barriers and Clouds etc be affected of it. Think some on all us oldies that start get grey and cant renew Everything every 10 sec :-)...

They should at least clarify the login tip (not sure this one still shows - I no longer pay attention to those things).

Tip #165: Extend Spell only affects spells that have a duration greater than instant and less than permanent except for spells that do damage, or even affect mobs. Or certain buffs like Stoneskin or Protection from Energy. And summons - they all last a fixed time too. Heck, just roll up one of each caster and figure it out for yourself - we can't keep it straight these days . You can cast instant and permanent spells without an increased Spell Point cost.

[wtorchia]

I am currently running a half orc 18 cler/2 fight build my self. He is a 2nd life cleric. I really like the build. I am able to get in all the meta feats and combat ones that I could want. I have : extent, quicken, maximize, empower, empower heal, THF, ITHF, GTHF, IC slash, PA, and toughness. I was initially a lower wis build, but I LRd to a max wis. With the right gear/destiny I can still land my implosions on EH. 2 lvls of paladin would be nice, but I feel you get more from fighter then paladin on a melee cleric.

[firemedium_jt]

I am currently running a half orc 18 cler/2 fight build my self. He is a 2nd life cleric. I really like the build. I am able to get in all the meta feats and combat ones that I could want. I have : extent, quicken, maximize, empower, empower heal, THF, ITHF, GTHF, IC slash, PA, and toughness. I was initially a lower wis build, but I LRd to a max wis. With the right gear/destiny I can still land my implosions on EH. 2 lvls of paladin would be nice, but I feel you get more from fighter then paladin on a melee cleric.

What is your plan for epic? No epic spell pen or spell focus?

Have you considered a Wiz1 to that? Drop Extend? And you have 2 more feats to take.

Heighten unless u just like Implosion.

Spell pen 1 and 2 for Epic spell pen?

SF for ED enhancments?

[wtorchia]

What is your plan for epic? No epic spell pen or spell focus?

Have you considered a Wiz1 to that? Drop Extend? And you have 2 more feats to take.

Heighten unless u just like Implosion.

Spell pen 1 and 2 for Epic spell pen?

SF for ED enhancments?

I have played around with a few of the things you listed.

Extend: I am lazy and like my divine might to not have to be cast every 2 min. Other then that it is OK for some buffs when soloing.

Epic: EH is a breeze. I can solo most content. EE is a different story. I tend to fall back to heal bot mode for with a bastion, and a 120 devotion weapon. If I feel the group is doing OK with out me baybe sitting them, then I switch back to being more up front. I basically do not cast any of the insta kill spells except implosion. I really only use DM, BB, heal spells , implosion, resits, and a few buff spells. Depending on the ED I am in I have ~800 HP/1900 SP (Sentinel) or ~500hp/2400 SP (Angel).

The main thing with this build is that I look @ my SP as being there for healing/buffing mostly. My last life was a human caster cleric and I played him as a heal bot / invoker. It was fun, I just wanted something different. I am set up and play more like a paladin that can heal then a cleric that can fight. In the Sentinel ED I have over 10 turns, and I take the AOE heal from that line. That give me 4 more free burst heals that regen on there own timer.

I realize that this build gives up a lot on the caster side. I found that with my play style I just did not get to use the caster side much in groups. For most quest/raids you are not going to do much else then heal and buff. Melees and casters are just dropping stuff too fast. So I am setup to take a beating in melee range and use my aura, bursts and AOH to heal them while I swing a way with auto attack , cast spot heals and Divine punishment. I also have a torc and con op goggles. So getting hit is not THAT bad for me.

[Kza]

My whole idea of getting 2 pally is to get great saves even on ee GH.
So i started like this: defence/heals good enuff for ee. (and for me the saves are a key, if they get too high i can
swap in other things as twists and get more dps/healage that way.)

offence: good enough melee(+dot) so i can solo gh eh wo falling asleep (i hope this will be
true 99% it will be decent, but toon only 19 right now).

I took fighter instead of wizard (1 lvl) for haste boosts, and Tower shield prof if i need to
respec up my defences til shieldmastery*2, this was very hard decision not sure yet if
17cleric 2 pally 1 wiz had been better, just for some better bbs when soloing en and so.

(my main my completionist will probably be 17cleric2monk1wiz and that makes the builds a tad more different also, or so will he be a bard argh i can never decide, he knocking of all spellpene lives Before final build)

conclusion: 2 pally was a key for me, more than 17 cleric not needed and then if 1 fighter or 1 wizard.... ok im still not sure i did right.

[wtorchia]

My whole idea of getting 2 pally is to get great saves even on ee GH.
So i started like this: defence/heals good enuff for ee. (and for me the saves are a key, if they get too high i can
swap in other things as twists and get more dps/healage that way.)

offence: good enough melee(+dot) so i can solo gh eh wo falling asleep (i hope this will be
true 99% it will be decent, but toon only 19 right now).

I took fighter instead of wizard (1 lvl) for haste boosts, and Tower shield prof if i need to
respec up my defences til shieldmastery*2, this was very hard decision not sure yet if
17cleric 2 pally 1 wiz had been better, just for some better bbs when soloing en and so.

(my main my completionist will probably be 17cleric2monk1wiz and that makes the builds a tad more different also, or so will he be a bard argh i can never decide, he knocking of all spellpene lives Before final build)

conclusion: 2 pally was a key for me, more than 17 cleric not needed and then if 1 fighter or 1 wizard.... ok im still not sure i did right.

That make sense to me. It is all up to how you want to build the char. I have looked at 2 pal or 2 pal 1 fight my self.

[firemedium_jt]

If you are worried about saves do you have a few Heroism items to click for +2 to saves for 5 minutes?
Greater Heroism necklace for +4 to saves for 11 minutes from TOD?

Superior Parry Bracers from 5 Villager commendations for exceptional saves +4?
Or auction house Bracers with Sup Parry for +4.

Resistance +6 or +7 item?
Cleric commendation armor or auction house cloaks are easy to get.
Wizwar robe.

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If a Cleric is not a Spell Penetration build I can't see much sense not to splash 3 levels. WIZ1 gives you more force spell power and WIZ umd for the easiest greater arcane item from Wizwar staff commendations. Another feat for Spell Focus for ED enhancements. Master's Touch for you at low level and your friendly pure divines.

I guess the main reason is more lvl9 spells?
but Clerics can swap them out. True rez and Mass heal is nice for raid healing but mass heal is rarely used in 6 man groups, and you can get by without True rez, so you can have Implosion all the time. Just do regular Resurrection and a heal scroll and have Raise Dead to stack with Rez on cool down. So it is just whether you want energy drain or mass heal really. Really you just give up True Rez for WIZ1.

Pally is good for a CHR Divine build, but I dump CHR. I can't see doing CLR17(18)/Pal2 with less than CHR16 and CHR+2 tome or CHR14 and CHR+4 tome. But heck. Just go Fav Soul if own it you are worried about saves if you have it, and the old mantra of staying Pure Fav is over with so much power from Epic Desitinies. Then skip Pal2 and splash something more powerful like FTR2 or MNK2 or FTR1/WIZ1 (yes the Force Manip1 stacks with Fav Soul Prestige, but I never tried it. On forums)

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[Kza]

"If you are worried about saves do you have a few Heroism items to click for +2 to saves for 5 minutes?
Greater Heroism necklace for +4 to saves for 11 minutes from TOD?

Superior Parry Bracers from 5 Villager commendations for exceptional saves +4?
Or auction house Bracers with Sup Parry for +4.

Resistance +6 or +7 item?
Cleric commendation armor or auction house cloaks are easy to get.
Wizwar robe."

Ofcourse i have them :-) all that kind of basics is covered. Favored soul is a different build altogether in my book, i want atleast 2 lvl9 slots as divine, and i love the utility of swapping spells so i dont like them so much (except wings those i love). And radiant servant makes healing so easy, i like the game easy ;-)

My aim is a rocket high reflex save (for being a cleric), so i can be in the middle of things and not sitting on my back. So i Think 2 pally lvls very good for lil me. Its more if 1 wiz or 1 fighter that was my biggest problem with build.

(I started 14 cha + 4 tome + 8 item +2 enhancements + 2 insight = 30 cha = +10 in all saves, so 7 more in reflex vs 2 monk splash and 5 more if 1 feat go to Lightning reflexex and 4 more if you use the stat Points on cha to boost dex from 14 to more.) (can get +3 insight and +1 exc for 1 more but i dont have that in immediate future)

(in some destinies being way more)

- to play a fav soul splashed 2 other is sacrificing mass heal. Suddenly you are not a pug raid healer, that is one thing this build must be able to do.
- That you are so hardcore about that 2 monk or 2 fighter is more powerful... I say it isnt it is different builds with different goals. I lose 2 feats so i lost some melee dps (ithf gthf), and for that i get higher saves. Different goals different builds, not so that 1 is "auto" better.
- I agree that 1 wiz might been better so 1 wiz 2 pal 17 cleric for stronger bbs instead of 1 fig for a haste boost.

[firemedium_jt]

With those items you have enough reflex for Heroic lvls. IMHO

For Epic saves are more important.
What about the reflex saves from Epic Destinies?

Unyielding Sentinal can have some nice twists to help your survivability with hitpoints and some minor boosts to saves.

Magister and Draconic have a Tier 1 Reflex save boost that is easy to twist.
Rank 3 is +6 reflex,
and tumble phasing!
or Fort saving on a 1.

A much better investment for you than Heroic lvl splashing Pally for just Reflex. And Pally is a boost to the other saves as well, but if that is not your concern? then you are better off splashing something else maybe?

You are a Cleric. You have things for a reason including lower reflex. Be what you can be, and don't be what you can't be ;) It is all about expectations, and for the Devs and other players... balance.

[Kza]

I will have +6 reflex and then brace for impact slotted for +8 aim is to get all saves even on ee as cleric on a 2.
Why? Cause i can :-)

And yes in ee i probably will go sentient for max defence and in all else whatever for most dps.

That and being able to raid heal everuthing in any diff is like no1.
After that its like getting most dps as possible via melee/dots.

If im right i will get 57+ selfbuffed in all saves wo any significant effort (relative, i play very much). And that i Think is enough even for ee saves in gh on a 2. If not i can get it even higher some. (but then it start cost like hefty, i want to be able slot absorb items wo losing saves)

21 now, and having a good time. But wont stress test build yet, i want to be 25 first so have all gear avail.

And what devs and other ppl have for expectations on a cleric, well my expectations on my cleric is that he never dies and will be able to heal through more or less whatever. That im pretty sure build will do, and hopefully dps will be good enough in fury or dread so its fun playing in easier than ee also. Othervise i got atleast
1 extra pl cleric :-)