How should wish and miracle be implemented, if at all?

[knightgf]

Unfortunately, due to the open nature of both of these spells, the best one could do is make a list of powerful effects and give them a long cooldown. I would like to see these spells implemented in the game, seeing that they are iconic spells for both arcane and divine casters, but like I said, due to the open nature, it will be a bit tricky to make them awesome. Here is a description and list of wish spells:

Wish
Granted at Epic level 23 with at least 17 levels of wizard/18 levels of sorcerer
Spell Point Cost: 100 SP
Experience Point cost: 10,000 XP
Cooldown: 5-10 minutes or one day, depending on effect
Components: Verbal
Metamagics: Quicken, enlarge, extend
Description: You can choose to bend reality to some extent. Wish allows you to select a variety of spell effects normally not allowable to arcane casters.
List of spells:

- Rewind time (Goes back 5 seconds in time, 10 minute cooldown, extend doubles time gained)
- Change your currently prepared spells (Wizard only, 5 minute cooldown)
- Dispel the harmful effects of all ongoing spells (Like break enchantment, but automatically succeeds against all checks, 5 minute cooldown)
- Heal all HP damage or all non-magical effects (Not both, one target only, including yourself, 5 minute cooldown)
- Generate a double rainbow effect on every target in a large AoE spell (5 minute cooldown)
- Teleport to a area you have already been in (This spell is a two parter: The first places a beacon in a quest or public area, and the second part teleports you there. Only the first part has actual costs: The second has only the cooldown, which is seperate from all other cooldowns. 5 minute cooldown)
- Resurrection on a single target (10 minute cooldown)
- Add a +1 inherent bonus to a stat of your choice that goes up to +5(one day cooldown)
- Add a +2 stacking loot bonus to a chest (10 minute cooldown)
- Generate a stack of 50 potions of wonder (BtC, 10 minute cooldown)
- Summon a huge ferocous dragon (May turn on allies, one day cooldown)
- Wish a single target dead (Either turns a non-boss target undead or kills it as with power word: kill, randomly determined. 10 minute cooldown. No spell resistance or save.)
- Destroy the spell resistance, AC, shield bonus and dodge bonus on a target (5 minute cooldown)
- Rain down hams (One day cooldown, hams may damage enemies when rained down)
- Conjure things to smite enemies with (May heal or harm enemies to some extent, or do no damage, 10 minute cooldown)

I could go on and on, but I don't want to add too many spell effects. Im sure you guys have better types of wishes anyways that players would rather use.

But moving on, here is the description and spell types for miracle:

Miracle
Granted at Epic level 23 with at least 17 levels of cleric/18 levels of favored soul
Spell Point Cost: 100 SP
Experience Point cost: 0 - 10,000 XP depending on effect
Cooldown: 5-10 minutes or one day-one week, depending on effect
Components: Verbal
Metamagics: Quicken, enlarge, extend
Description: You request your deity to intervene and bestow some sort of divine effect of your choosing. Your deity may deny the quest and it may turn against you depending on how many times you cast miracle and the intended purpose.
List of spells:

Mass Resurrection (Resurrect all of your party members as per resurrection, 10,000 XP, one day cooldown)
Divine shielding (Makes you invulnurable to all damage except those from the gods themselves. One minute duration, One week cooldown.)
Heal (Removes all harmful effects on a target and heals, 10 minute cooldown)
Divine Strike (Strikes a enemy of your choosing with 100d100 damage. If a enemy is two steps from your deity, the miracle is automatically granted. If a enemy is one step, theres a 50-50 chance it may not work, and if a enemy matches your deitys alignment, theres a 50-50 chance it will strike you instead. 10 minute cooldown.)
Blessings of (Deity name here) (Recieves a blessing from your deity that benefits all your party members. Blessings can range from imbuing all weapons to holy, to slowly regenerating HP/SP and much, much more effects. Those who oppose your deity's alignment will not receive it. 10,000 XP cost, 10 minute cooldown.)
Summon celestial guardian (Summons a powerful being associated with the deity to smite thy enemies. 10 minute cooldown)
Gate (Summons 1d10 powerful beings associated with the deity to turn the tide of battle. 10,000 XP cost, one day cooldown)
AtonementSacrifice some of your life force to turn those who are your enemies into permanent allies. Works only against non-boss or rain monsters. 10,000 XP cost, takes 50% of your current HP away (Can be healed), one day cooldown)

Phew, that took a little bit, but there you have it. It's going to be difficult for Turbine to come up with a bunch of useful spells for these two types of iconic spells, but it can be done.

Now the question I ask you is: "What kind of things would you cast miracle or wish for in DDO:MotU?"

[justhavinfun]

IMO these spells should not be implemented and if they were I feel that they would rarely if ever be used. Yes these are iconic PnP spells that I feel do not translate well to a MMO.

First of all in every campaign I was ever in if someone wanted to cast a wish spell the wording of it was extremely crucial. We would spend days trying to word it in such a way as to negate any negative effects that could happen. As is stated at the beginning of the spell description you are attempting to warp reality. This can have many devastating effects if not worded correctly. To me it would mean that a live GM would have to look at the wording of each wish/miracle cast by each player and then determine what exactly happens.

Secondly I do not feel that these spells would even be used simply because of the XP cost in doing so. The Devs have already done away with the XP penalty for death because people did not like it. This would cause them to end up being like many of the stat buffs that no one carries simply because they are useless for the reason that they do not stack and most people actually have items that do what the buff does only better.

[BruceTheHoon]

Cast wish: get a shard in end epic chest.
Cast miracle: it's an ESOS shard!

[Kilbar]

As a player-cast spell, I don't think Wish should be implemented. A Ring of Three Wishes with a menu of ACTUALLY WORTHWHILE items, on the other hand... I don't mean piddly garbage like those birthday cakes and boxes give out, either. I mean random Epic Elite loot (a LARGE list of options, too) with the possibility of getting a +4 Supreme Tome. The ring has three charges and has a one real-world week or even month cooldown to keep the owner in suspense and while the ring has any charges left, it is an Exclusive item. Once it is gone, the character can resume farming attempts.

The ring is Bound to Character, but all items it produces are Bound to Account.

[BruceTheHoon]

If the spells were to be implemented, they would have to do something that's not out of scope of the usual game mechanics, so that content could be predictably balanced against the possible use cases.
A few other uses come to a lazy mind:
- Restore full SP to one individual.
- Restore full HP to one individual.
- Chest bless +2.

[donfilibuster]

Plenty of food for tought on wish, it is traditional in D&D but so are the risks and consecuences involved.
Mind that while wish is meant to be the most powerful spell in the spellbook, it has very clear limits.

You can replicate some spells and some crafting, but not all.
You may even replicate spells in artifacts but not the artifact itself.
You may however, substitute materials, time, etc.

DDO rules may apply, such as for crafting on-the-fly, the item must be craftable and min level would increase.
Spells on-the-fly are trickier but that'd be the most easy of the possible usages.
Balancing that is another matter of course, along with making stuff redundant, etc. that'd be the issues to tackle.

It'd be good to have wish in-game to do neat things you can't normally do.
For best results devs would have to add specific spots where you can use it in every quest and area.
e.g. on key situations in quests, including timers, gates, npcs, etc.
Other not so obvious usages would be nice, such as a rainbow bridge to the purple coin ;)

For everything else you'd need to add the risks involved. Typical stuff related to wish are:
Even on a good wording there's consecuences, riches don't come out of thin air.
Wishes are valuable, even on a high magic setting, they are used as trade since coins are useless (not surprisingly).
Even if you bind a djinn you may still make enemies. Djinns may be weak but will die before giving up their wihes.
A wishful wisher is more dangerous than the actual villain. (some deities take special interest)

Just be glad this is D&D and not the Discworld, because there a powerful spell can take life on its own and...