Barb & Sorc Duo need to work in Trapskills..which one?

[Failedlegend]

Hey guys me and a friend of mine have been playing a duo of a Half-Elf Air Savant (lightning magic is SO visually appealing) and a Human Barbarian...while the duo is a bit dangerous as we lack in the defense department (our main duo is a Arcane Tank and a Light Monk) but its really fun to just stomp anything (we don't normally zerg but its fun to do occasionally)

Now background aside we've found a MAJOR problem...traps obliterate us and we have no way as a static group (We play these guys static so we can screw around without upsetting a group) so I'm looking to fit in trap skills in one or the other.

Now a few things:

- The Sorc must stay a Sorc I already have a Wiz18/Rogue2, its very effective but I don't want to do it again
- No more than 2 splash on the Sorc (preferably 1) to keep Savant3 and least DC impact as possible...One thought is a Sorc19/Arty1
- The Barb must stay THF, the idea of these characters is just to make things go squish as all our other characters are fairly complicated and sometimes is nice to just kill things that said she's open to multiclassing both splashes or deeper
- We have access to pretty much everything race & class wise (except the Barb doesn't have FvS or the Half-Races) and all but a few adventure packs (have all low/mid, missing a few high)

Here's the current builds btw...we just started so rerolling is ok.


Human Barbarian20 (Frenzied)
Str 18 (Lvl-ups here)
Con 18

H Stunning Blow
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
6 Greater Cleave
9 IC: Slashing
12 Improved Sunder
15 THF
18 ITHF
ED Fury of the Wild
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 GTHF

Skills: Intim, UMD, Spot, Balance



Half-Elf Sorceror20 (Air Savant)

Str 10
Con 16
Int 12
Cha 18 (Lvl ups here)

HE Pally
1 SF:Evo
3 Empower
6 Maximize
9 GSF:Evo
12 Heighten
15 Spell Pen
18 G-Spell Pen
ED Draconic Incarnation
21 ESF: Evo
24 ESP

Skills: UMD, Concen, Diplo

1 Jump. Exp Retreat, DSD, Nightshield
2 Resist Energy, Blur, False Life, Glitterdust
3 Haste, Lightning Bolt, Rage, Fireball
4 Ice Storm, D-Door, Stoneskin, Firewall
5 Eladar's Electric Surge, Cyclonic Blast, Ball Lightning, Teleport
6 Chain Lightning, Greater Heroism, True Seeing
7 Hold Mass, PFE Mass, FoD
8 TtS, CM Mass, Otto's
9 Summon IX, Energy Drain, WotB

[Lonnbeimnech]

Def the human barb, give him 14 int, put the rest in str and con, same feats as he has. that is enough to cover search disable and umd and still have a point left over for whatever, maybe he likes intim. if he has eaten a +2 int tome he can put a few points in balance starting at level 7.

There is good synergy with inherent barb trap sense, so even with no dex his reflex save verse traps will not be bad... it wont be great either, just to be clear. The problem is that you cant do traps while raged, so take extra rages so you can turn them off and turn them back on without running out when you need them.

Also the rogue splash is nice for rogue haste boost, and evasion.

[Failedlegend]

I figured the Barb would be easier especially since its less punishing to Multi-class and has a higher natural skill point amount so assuming Barb18/Rogue2 this is how it would look.

Might drop Diplo and take spot on my Sorc to fill that hole. Not sure if it would be effective at all with half points.


Human Barbarian18/Rogue2 (Frenzied)
Str 18 (Lvl-ups here)
Con 16
Int 14

Rogue at 1 & 8

Skills (Max skill than move on)

Barb Levels: Intim, Search, Disable, UMD
Rogue Levels: Intim, Search, Disable, UMD, OL

If +2 Int tome found add Balance

H Stunning Blow
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
6 Greater Cleave
9 IC: Slashing
12 Improved Sunder
15 THF
18 ITHF
ED Fury of the Wild
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 GTHF

Skills (Max skill than move on)

Barb Levels: Intim, Search, Disable, UMD
Rogue Levels: Intim, Search, Disable, UMD, OL

[Steveohio]

Definately want to multi the barb with rogue.

While 2 rogue is a nice splash, you may want to look at 7 rogue also for acrobat.
You'll have many more skill points to go around, meaning you don't need to pump int as much.

But the bigger perks are knockdown immunity, 10% attack speed with staves, in addition to 4d6+9 +dex bonus sneak attack, and some other enhancements. Can put the odd level into ftr for another feat and heavy armor prof, or something else.

[Steveohio]

Also your barb build lacks toughness, personally losing 58 HP on a melee with poor defense isn't a wise choice.

[Therigar]

I'm assuming that you want Spot to see the traps first.

I'm going to recommend not bothering with that too much.

The barb, with the 2 rogue levels, will have evasion. That's a help in traps. Then, it will have enhancements to boost trap saves.

Just make sure that the barb leads and the sorc follows.

Next thing, you really do not need any INT for your trap or search skills. It has been shown time and time and time again that every trap in the game can be found and disabled by a minimum INT character wearing top-of-the-line gear. When you find a trap just stop, gear swap, search, gear swap, disable.

The only reason to increase INT is if you have points left over from STR and CON to start with.

Of course, it probably pays in your case to NOT max STR and CON but to save 12 build points by stopping both at 16. If you do that then you should raise DEX to 16 and INT to 10. The 10 INT is enough, especially if you will eventually use tomes.

INT 10 gives 5 skill points per barb level to keep search and disable at max and to keep intimidate at max. Backfill skills with the rogue points at L8 by cheating on search/disable until then (that is, skip or only half levels while barb).

Traps at the early levels are mostly harmless and you'll be able to get away with it if you gear up.

[Therigar]

Also your barb build lacks toughness, personally losing 58 HP on a melee with poor defense isn't a wise choice.

In some cases this is true, but not in a static duo. Keep in mind that these two are running just with themselves and (reading between the lines) seldom grouping with others. They will adjust their tactics so that the HP loss isn't important.

In the larger scheme, it may be that barbarians don't take toughness any longer because they can get so many HP out of their ED choice that it doesn't much matter. When the HP max for most players was ~600 it now can rise into the thousands. The loss of the HP by not having toughness is much less important in the current game.

[Failedlegend]

Also your barb build lacks toughness, personally losing 58 HP on a melee with poor defense isn't a wise choice.

Honestly I have no qualms with dropping Improved Sunder...originally that feat was for Legendary Dreadnaught but honestly FotW is alot cooler than I first though it was so IS is kind of bleh and the extra HP can't hurt


I'm assuming that you want Spot to see the traps first.

I'm going to recommend not bothering with that too much.

The barb, with the 2 rogue levels, will have evasion. That's a help in traps. Then, it will have enhancements to boost trap saves.

Just make sure that the barb leads and the sorc follows.

Yeah I don't think I can really fit it in and it would be a bit awkward to have the Sorc doing the spotting...also to tell the truth the cleric hirelings tend to spot most things anyway :P



Next thing, you really do not need any INT for your trap or search skills. It has been shown time and time and time again that every trap in the game can be found and disabled by a minimum INT character wearing top-of-the-line gear. When you find a trap just stop, gear swap, search, gear swap, disable.

The only reason to increase INT is if you have points left over from STR and CON to start with.

Of course, it probably pays in your case to NOT max STR and CON but to save 12 build points by stopping both at 16. If you do that then you should raise DEX to 16 and INT to 10. The 10 INT is enough, especially if you will eventually use tomes.

INT 10 gives 5 skill points per barb level to keep search and disable at max and to keep intimidate at max. Backfill skills with the rogue points at L8 by cheating on search/disable until then (that is, skip or only half levels while barb).

Traps at the early levels are mostly harmless and you'll be able to get away with it if you gear up.

Hmmm...I guess the Barb doesn't really NEED UMD especially if I make her Chaotic Good...the Sorc can handle any UMDing needs. So How about this


Human Chaotic Good Barb18/Rogue2

Rogue @ 1 & 8

Str 16
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 10

Skills: Max than move on to the next skill

Barb Levels: Intim, Search, Disable
Rogue Levels: Intim, Search, Disable, OL

If tome found add balance to both at the end


H Power Attack
1 Cleave
3 Toughness
6 Great Cleave
9 Stunning Blow
12 IC:Slashing or Bludgeoning (up to her)
15 THF
18 ITHF
ED Fury of the Wild
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 GTHF

[OldCoaly]

Might drop Diplo and take spot on my Sorc to fill that hole. Not sure if it would be effective at all with half points.

If you want to spot traps during an elite bravery bonus streak, you'll need to be within +2 of the best Spot item possible per level, have a +WIS item, and max ranks in the ability.

Once you hit the Sands, half ranks won't be enough, even with the other pieces.

In a static duo team, having one team member Spot while the other Searches/Disables can be nice - both players are aware of the trap and there's a lot less gear swapping, but cross-class Spot on a Sorc is not of any value at all.

[Failedlegend]

If you want to spot traps during an elite bravery bonus streak, you'll need to be within +2 of the best Spot item possible per level, have a +WIS item, and max ranks in the ability.

Once you hit the Sands, half ranks won't be enough, even with the other pieces.

In a static duo team, having one team member Spot while the other Searches/Disables can be nice - both players are aware of the trap and there's a lot less gear swapping, but cross-class Spot on a Sorc is not of any value at all.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion :D

[unbongwah]

Might drop Diplo and take spot on my Sorc to fill that hole.
W/out a rog or arty splash on your char, you won't be able to Spot any traps w/DC>20, so don't bother.

I would strongly consider doing rog 8 / barb 12 instead of rog 2 / barb 18; you give up FB III and some HPs, but gain a lot more skill pts, extra sneak atk, and W&S Mastery III to boot. Plus you can beef up your DEX instead of INT to improve your Reflex saves.

[unbongwah]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 25 True Neutral Human Female
(12 Barbarian \ 8 Rogue \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 404
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 12
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 25)
Strength 18 24
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 25)
Balance 6 11
Bluff -1 4
Concentration 3 8
Diplomacy -1 4
Disable Device 3 27
Haggle -1 4
Heal -1 4
Hide 2 7
Intimidate -1 4
Jump 4 12
Listen -1 4
Move Silently 2 7
Open Lock 6 15
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 4
Search 3 27
Spot 3 27
Swim 4 12
Tumble 6 11
Use Magic Device 3 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Trap Sense I


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
New builder's still a bit bugged, so didn't show epic levels. [Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical and Stunning Blow]

[Kmnh]

18 barb/2 rogue is a viable build. Barbarians have enough skill points per level to feed search and disable. You will need a bit of intelligence and gear, but it's doable. I have one, and it can disable EE traps.