Refund 2 days VIP

[20FootCezanne]

It is my opinion that everyone who subscribes to this game be refunded 2 days of membership for time lost due to maintenance.

After all, with all the updating to your billing system, surely you have the technology to do this, right?

[Limey]

If you look down the back of your sofa you will find that much.

[Memnir]

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http://i.imgur.com/kHdP7jt.png
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Keep the change. :)

[Derailment]

It is my opinion that everyone who subscribes to this game be refunded 2 days of membership for time lost due to maintenance.

After all, with all the updating to your billing system, surely you have the technology to do this, right?

Don't think so.

Usual software stuff in EULA



YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT THE USE OF THE GAME AND THE INTERNET IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT ALLOWED BY LAW, THE GAME, AND ANY OTHER PRODUCTS OR SERVICES MADE AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, ARE PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” AND “AS AVAILABLE” BASIS ...

THE TURBINE PARTIES DO NOT WARRANT THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS OR USE ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES AT TIMES OR LOCATIONS OF YOUR CHOOSING, OR THAT THE TURBINE PARTIES WILL HAVE ADEQUATE CAPACITY TO PROVIDE ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES AS A WHOLE OR IN ANY SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC AREA. THE TURBINE PARTIES DO NOT WARRANT THAT ACCESS TO OR USE OF THE GAME WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS GAME AT ANY TIME OR IN ANY GEOGRAPHIC AREA, OR THAT THE GAME WILL MEET ANY PARTICULAR CRITERIA OF PERFORMANCE OR QUALITY.

[Grosbeak07]

It is my opinion that everyone who subscribes to this game be refunded 2 days of membership for time lost due to maintenance.

After all, with all the updating to your billing system, surely you have the technology to do this, right?

Its .62 cents with a $15 dollar sub, .54 cents with a 1 year sub.

We will get some bonus xp out of it. Honestly that's better than a refund at these amounts.

[Missing_Minds]

awww.. the op is upset he/she can't play a few hours, so they want a full 24 hours even though they obviously wouldn't be playing that much.

Isn't that special.

[redspecter23]

Is Turbine required to give us anything to make up for the downtime? No.

Would it be awesome if we got +heroic xp, +epic xp and +loot bonus? Yes.

We'll see what happens. I'm not expecting any sort of compensation and certainly nothing monetary at all. An ingame bonus as a thank you for our patience would be a classy move though.

[Buggss]

It is my opinion that everyone who subscribes to this game be refunded 2 days of membership for time lost due to maintenance.

After all, with all the updating to your billing system, surely you have the technology to do this, right?

Bloody hell, don't go suggesting they mess with the billing system again just yet, it'll be down a week this time!! :D

[LOOON375]

Make sure you come back next week and start a thread complaining how Turbine never fixes anything......

[Magil]

As above, it's in the stuff you agreed too when you made your account (That stuff you said you read, but you didn't.), and we are more than likely going to get an XP bonus anyway. I recall it being done before.

In the mean time, enjoy your time off from DDO. The internet has far more to offer than just a game.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Make sure you come back next week and start a thread complaining how Turbine never fixes anything......
Um... so what was "fixed" this time? And will the "fix" actually fix or break?

I'll check back in a week.

[sheepface]

Try going outside.

[TrinityTurtle]

Hey guys, be nice to the op. The economy is hard, he probably needs that 62 cents really badly right now for lunch money!

[20FootCezanne]

Oops, looks like people are misinterpreting what I meant. I meant add 2 days to our current subscription, not mail me 62 cents.

Not that it's significant, it'd just be a nice gesture.

[knockcocker]

Don't think so.

Usual software stuff in EULA

Yeah, I'd love to see this stuff legally tested (perhaps it has been...). Agreeing to things
in a EULA may hold no legal water if the terms of the contract violate certain other laws
or your statutory rights (effectively nullifying the contract). Companies can't just put
whatever the hell they like in a EULA then expect it to be legally binding - they should
be bound by all the same laws as other service providers.

Reminds me of the human Cent-Ipad - now that's EULA satire at it's finest ;)

[Vua]

awww.. the op is upset he/she can't play a few hours, so they want a full 24 hours even though they obviously wouldn't be playing that much.

Isn't that special.

I don't agree with getting a refund for some downtime but your reasoning is faulty. We pay monthly for vip access, not 30 days worth of actual gameplay. Since we don't pay per hour played, a refund shouldn't be based that way. It should be based on lost access time. Not that we should get a refund at all.

[20FootCezanne]

And I agree with all of you, extra xp % would be preferable to a refund.

[Captain_Wizbang]

oh boy

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/th_ibtl.gif (http://s299.beta.photobucket.com/user/chefricochet/media/animated/ibtl.gif.html?sort=3&o=19)

[Gkar]

Its .62 cents with a $15 dollar sub, .54 cents with a 1 year sub.

We will get some bonus xp out of it. Honestly that's better than a refund at these amounts.

Don't forget some downtime without compensation was provided for in the contract he signed. Thus, you probably have to cut that amount in half, which means this isn't even worth a full roll of pennies (since you Americans still use the 1cent coin :p )

[Ape_Man]

We have no SLA with Turbine, no recourse.

They could/should compensate us with something that costs them nothing like a big-ass XP bonus weekend but we won't see anything more than that.

[Hendrik]

They will do something for us, they have in the past and they will again this time.

The sad part will be the complaints about what they gave all us.

[Gkar]

Yeah, I'd love to see this stuff legally tested (perhaps it has been...). Agreeing to things
in a EULA may hold no legal water if the terms of the contract violate certain other laws
or your statutory rights (effectively nullifying the contract). Companies can't just put
whatever the hell they like in a EULA then expect it to be legally binding - they should
be bound by all the same laws as other service providers.

Reminds me of the human Cent-Ipad - now that's EULA satire at it's finest ;)

As someone who ran a gym, in Canada at least, yes, its been verified as legally binding. It is reasonable to expect certain types of operations to have both planned and unplanned, times when they are not functional. Such times do not warrent compensation for those who pay in calandar time increments for access, it is considered a normally and expected risk into entering into such agreeements. Only if the time loss ends up creating a material harm (and <$1 will not be ruled as such) would the claim be satisfied.

Legalities aside, smart companies do nice things for people they just created inconvinienced

[Hafeal]

... but I think 'mere' monetary compensation is not adequate for the damages caused with this outage. Not close. I think we should demand compensation much more appropriate to the harm:

1) all players should be immediately given 5 pieces of named loot of their choice (I mean, it would have been pulled anyway, right?);
2) all players should be able to immediately level any existing character with 10 million xp (clearly, this is the amount of xp that would have been earned, at a minimum during this downtime)
3) 2,000 TPs. Just because
4) A permanent and forever 350% xp bonus.
5) All (ten? fifteen?) ViPs should be personally called and apologized to by Fernando.
6) Fernando should have to enter teh Marketplace and be subject to players greasing, tripping and cometfalling him for 2 hours.
7) WB should give everyone a $50 give card; I mean c'mon, Fortune 100 company, right?
8) Turbine should offer to put everyone up for the next GenCon.
9) Fix all bugs, effective yesterday.
10) Start sending posts like this via in-game mail.

C'mon, if you are making demands, let's go BIG. ;)

[Missing_Minds]

C'mon, if you are making demands, let's go BIG. ;)

huh... normally the heros are just splashes on the ground by now. That gives me a chance to... GO BIG!

[cdbd3rd]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/prov31ldg/exasperated.jpg


They've always made it right when things have fubared - and it wasn't demanding refunds and spouting imaginative legalese that did it.


http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk192/allensgirl4160/relax.jpg

...soon™

[cdbd3rd]

huh... normally the heros are just splashes on the ground by now. ...


ew! :eek:

[Pape_27]

refund? not needed.

extend your billing period by a day? that that could do withiut much effort. Provided that the billing software they are trying to install actually works properly.

[Juduss]

Try going outside.

AaaaAaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! The light... It buuurrrrrnnnnnnnnssssss!!!!!!!

[jfgddo]

I hope you do realize that a 2 day, 9.99 a month subscription, will get you a whole 66 cents for 2 days lost.

[arkonas]

instead of demanding compensation for just vips because they arent the only ones paying for the game. just do a ddo days that can make everyone happy. Even do a big one. most people will forget the 30+ hrs then.

[rsking]

aaaa for thoses that don't read the fine print you better read your VIP subscription Agreement -.-

It basically states that you get what is given and nothing more but thats the entire thing in a nut shell but its best you READ THE **** THING BEFORE YOU GET IT.

[LordPiglet]

I don't agree with getting a refund for some downtime but your reasoning is faulty. We pay monthly for vip access, not 30 days worth of actual gameplay. Since we don't pay per hour played, a refund shouldn't be based that way. It should be based on lost access time. Not that we should get a refund at all.

It's quite common for many service providers (cable companies, phone companies) to provide you with a credit for any time that you can't access their service. When I was a tech support team supervisor for Dish Network, if you called in about an outage that required new equipment be sent out, a technician come out, etc, even if it was for something like you cut your own lines, you still got credit for time without service. Comcast does the same thing now if you don't have service, they automatically credit you. When the cell towers were down in Houston after Hurricane Ike hit Houston, I got time without service credit from AT&T.

It doesn't matter what the actually monetary amount it, it's a standard of care that's been established by other companies. If we can't access your service, we shouldn't be billed for it. However, the standard in the gaming industry is that we'll get an xp or loot bonus.

[20FootCezanne]

aaaa for thoses that don't read the fine print you better read your VIP subscription Agreement -.-

It basically states that you get what is given and nothing more but thats the entire thing in a nut shell but its best you READ THE **** THING BEFORE YOU GET IT.



This has already been mentioned in this thread.

[LordPiglet]

aaaa for thoses that don't read the fine print you better read your VIP subscription Agreement -.-

It basically states that you get what is given and nothing more but thats the entire thing in a nut shell but its best you READ THE **** THING BEFORE YOU GET IT.

Local law may over rule those statements. You'd also be suprised at how much of a EULA can't be upheld for various legal reasons. Just because there's a EULA doesn't mean there's no recourse.

[Menace13]

awww.. the op is upset he/she can't play a few hours, so they want a full 24 hours even though they obviously wouldn't be playing that much.

Isn't that special.

No, I would be playing that much. Cos, I have no frandz or life.

[bruener]

The sad part will be the complaints about what they gave all us.

its as my Grandma use to say "some people would complain if hung with a new rope"

[Dagolar]

I will accept Stones of XP, A Bottomless Flagon of Liquor, and Gnomes as suitable recompense for the two days lost nevermindI'mnotVIP.

I will not settle for anything less!
Except, perhaps, for a shiny rock.
Kobold like shiny things.

[knockcocker]

its as my Grandma use to say "some people would complain if hung with a new rope"

"Hanged"

Thank you, I'll be here all day (unless the game miraculously comes back up ;))

[squishwizzy]

Actually, their ELUA can say whatever it wants. Using downtime for maintenance as an excuse for taking money from paying customers and providing nothing in return isn't a blanket "get out of jail free" card. Because technically, if we go by the EULA alone, they have the "right" to charge you even if the servers never come up. This wouldn't fly.

In many instances, it isn't about what's "legal," it's about what you can win in court.

That being said, for a buck a person, you'd have a hard time making your case in court.

[arkonas]

Actually, their ELUA can say whatever it wants. Using downtime for maintenance as an excuse for taking money from paying customers and providing nothing in return isn't a blanket "get out of jail free" card. Because technically, if we go by the EULA alone, they have the "right" to charge you even if the servers never come up. This wouldn't fly.

In many instances, it isn't about what's "legal," it's about what you can win in court.

That being said, for a buck a person, you'd have a hard time making your case in court.


who says they wont do anything to makeup for the downtime? the game isnt even back up yet to make that statement. So why not wait and see first before making such a claim. Maybe they will give us a bonus to make up for the time lost. ever think of that?

[riskyraines]

It is my opinion that everyone who subscribes to this game be refunded 2 days of membership for time lost due to maintenance.

After all, with all the updating to your billing system, surely you have the technology to do this, right?

which address should we send your .38 cents?

[Lyle_Vertigo]

Being F2P is nice :3

Time to enjoy watching Nuke'm High 1&2.

[bruener]

"Hanged"

Thank you, I'll be here all day (unless the game miraculously comes back up ;))

i did say what "my Grandma" said not what you would say. try not to miss the details

[Dagolar]

which address should we send your .38 cents?

Note the 2.99$ handling fee, and the 15$ shipping fee if shipping is required.

Oh, wait, I forgot how Turbine evaluates these things (http://support.turbine.com/link/portal/24001/24001/Article/57/DDO-World-Character-Transfer-FAQs):

Your 29.99$ handling fee, then.

[Cyndrome]

As someone who ran a gym, in Canada at least, yes, its been verified as legally binding.

This is either the worst attempt at sarcasm or the best example of an argument from authority fallacy that I have seen in a long time.

[knockcocker]

As someone who ran a gym, in Canada at least, yes, its been verified as legally binding. It is reasonable to expect certain types of operations to have both planned and unplanned, times when they are not functional. Such times do not warrent compensation for those who pay in calandar time increments for access, it is considered a normally and expected risk into entering into such agreeements. Only if the time loss ends up creating a material harm (and <$1 will not be ruled as such) would the claim be satisfied.

Legalities aside, smart companies do nice things for people they just created inconvinienced

That wasn't really the point I was making. Essentially, just because something's in
the EULA does not make it legally binding even if you agree to it. After all, if you'd
promised your first born, do you think any court would enforce that?

[Chai]

Each unexpectedly lengthened downtime theres always a few debates about the legalities of the situation. Whose filing a suit for laundry change?

[arkonas]

Each unexpectedly lengthened downtime theres always a few debates about the legalities of the situation. Whose filing a suit for laundry change?

exactly it would cost more to file it then actually lose chump change.

[Cyndrome]

Each unexpectedly lengthened downtime theres always a few debates about the legalities of the situation. Whose filing a suit for laundry change?

How much laundry change are we talking about?

[Gkar]

This is either the worst attempt at sarcasm or the best example of an argument from authority fallacy that I have seen in a long time.

You can call it authoritative fallacy, but I'm sharing my life experience. I spent 10 years as the senior admin officer in a gym. During that time I became well aquainted with the law and case law around memberships. I even had an experience where we had an unplanned 3 week shutdown of our main pool due a massive failure in a burried water return line (we were losing thousands of L a day), and you can believe we had our lawyers in on that one.

Simply saying "authority fallacy" doesn't make you look smart or disprove what I'm saying. A question was thrown out, I gave back the knowledge I had on the subject. I also did throw in a juristictional disclaimer.

[Hambo]

It is my opinion that everyone who subscribes to this game be refunded 2 days of membership for time lost due to maintenance.

After all, with all the updating to your billing system, surely you have the technology to do this, right?

Oh My! What ever will I do with 66 cents?

I probably shouldn't spend it all in one place... :eek::rolleyes::cool:

[Gkar]

That wasn't really the point I was making. Essentially, just because something's in
the EULA does not make it legally binding even if you agree to it. After all, if you'd
promised your first born, do you think any court would enforce that?

On that I agree. You can't agree to anything illegal in a contract, in most cases.

I was just providing what I knew in reply to the 'I wonder if anyone had tested that line in court' type comment.

[patang01]

I'm VIP and I don't need a refund. Offer triple point TP bonus instead. Win win in my book.

[NaturalHazard]

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http://i.imgur.com/kHdP7jt.png
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Keep the change. :)

isn't it actually less than this? much less? 2 days vip?

[Flavilandile]

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http://i.imgur.com/kHdP7jt.png
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Keep the change. :)

Can I have the other side too ?

[Hafeal]

Whose filing a suit for laundry change?

Not that it matters for DDO in all likelihood, but some of the most successful class action lawsuits have occurred where companies were stealing many millions of pennies across their customer base. For example, Amerigas was sued in a class action in Missouri for not fully filling the gas tanks they sell; the amount of underfill was very small - but it added up to millions over the years.

And before someone over-reacts from DDO withdrawal, I don't think the scenario here is, at all, worthy of a class action lawsuit.

[Dribble]

On that I agree. You can't agree to anything illegal in a contract, in most cases.

I was just providing what I knew in reply to the 'I wonder if anyone had tested that line in court' type comment.

Actually...in ALL cases. Lol. Given some of the things you've said, I doubt you have any real experience here.

As for the OP...I am sure Turbine will boost xp/loot or something. What's the big deal. If the game is down for a week or more, then I could see your issue.

[Uska]

For me that would be like .53 they can keep it I wont die if I can't play a couple days.

[Dagolar]

For me that would be like .53 they can keep it I wont die if I can't play a couple days.

Best watch your step till the maintenance is over, after saying that..

[Uska]

Best watch your step till the maintenance is over, after saying that..

Lets me work on my thesis:)

[Missing_Minds]

Lets me work on my thesis:)

oooooh. M.S. or Ph. D?

[Grosbeak07]

oooooh. M.S. or Ph. D?

Hey! Don't knock M.A! :D

[denna1]

It is my opinion that everyone who subscribes to this game be refunded 2 days of membership for time lost due to maintenance.

After all, with all the updating to your billing system, surely you have the technology to do this, right?

Do you ask for money off your car payment becuase you can't use it while it's in the shop for maintenance?

You do understand that regular maintenance is required right? You also knew this when you started a subscription I hope.

I have 3 VIP accts and I'm cool with them doing maintenance if it is going to improve my gaming experience. Historically DDO has been really good at giving us some kind of freebie whenever things like this take longer than intended, but get real.

[Derailment]

I have 3 VIP accts and I'm cool with them doing maintenance if it is going to improve my gaming experience.


Sadly, billing systems have little to do with gaming experience.

[denna1]

Sadly, billing systems have little to do with gaming experience.

From what I have heard the billing system is tied in to the game. Part of the lag everyone is complaining about is stemming from the fact that whenever a large number of Paypal payments are made, or any other type of payments are processed in sufficiently large quantities, it causes the lag spikes we all experience. Now, I heard this is what Tolero said. That will improve my gaming experience.
If it is not the case, it still does not matter. Everything requires maintenance. It should be expected that any maintenance that is more labor intensive will also be more time consuming. If someone is going to cry about missing two days of gametime out of 30-31 days, or in this case 28 days, then they really need to evaluate their priorities. If someone feels entitled to a two day refund due to maintenance, then they really need to rethink what they are actually entitled to. Turbine owes us nothing for this. It's a fact, some folks just need to deal with the reality of this situation, and find something else to do. If whining about the lost two days is what some have chosen to do, then expect those of us more in touch with reality to offer a counter perspective.

[LordPiglet]

From what I have heard the billing system is tied in to the game. Part of the lag everyone is complaining about is stemming from the fact that whenever a large number of Paypal payments are made, or any other type of payments are processed in sufficiently large quantities, it causes the lag spikes we all experience. Now, I heard this is what Tolero said. That will improve my gaming experience.
If it is not the case, it still does not matter. Everything requires maintenance. It should be expected that any maintenance that is more labor intensive will also be more time consuming. If someone is going to cry about missing two days of gametime out of 30-31 days, or in this case 28 days, then they really need to evaluate their priorities. If someone feels entitled to a two day refund due to maintenance, then they really need to rethink what they are actually entitled to. Turbine owes us nothing for this. It's a fact, some folks just need to deal with the reality of this situation, and find something else to do. If whining about the lost two days is what some have chosen to do, then expect those of us more in touch with reality to offer a counter perspective.

Well, it looks like the people who expected a TWS credit are correct and more in touch with reality then some people think.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4896274

[Dagolar]

Well, it looks like the people who expected a TWS credit are correct and more in touch with reality then some people think.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4896274


As a thank you for your understanding and patience during this downtime, all Premium and VIP players who have logged into their account in the past 30 Days (as of 6:00AM Eastern time on 2/14/2013) will receive 250 Turbine points. In addition, all VIP players who have logged in during the same period will have their accounts credited 1 day of VIP time for each day of downtime, plus 1 additional day. All points and additional time will be granted automatically as soon as our regular service is restored and stable.


This means all those who've been.. excitable.. on the forums don't get any TP, right?

[rdasca]

This means all those who've been.. excitable.. on the forums don't get any TP, right?

lmao .... guess so :D

+1

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Do you ask for money off your car payment becuase you can't use it while it's in the shop for maintenance?

You do understand that regular maintenance is required right? You also knew this when you started a subscription I hope.

I have 3 VIP accts and I'm cool with them doing maintenance if it is going to improve my gaming experience. Historically DDO has been really good at giving us some kind of freebie whenever things like this take longer than intended, but get real.

First off, the car analogy is not relevantly similar. Something more accurate might be a membership to a 24hr club of some sort.

Regular "maintenance" should not prevent me from accessing the service I paid for for 2 days. Even with your car analogy, if it's got to be in the shop for two days, it's not maintenance.

Furthermore, maintenance is probably not the correct term. The current activities are probably more like installation of new software, or an upgrade.

If a club, or hotel denied you access to the services you normally pay for, for repairs or renovations, they typically suspend billing, or compensate you in some form or another.

Let's do get real. When I pay for something, I expect a certain degree of professionalism, courtesy/respect and most of all value for my money.

The efforts to compensate players for guild buffs &c was the first time I observed any attempt at compensation by Turbine.

"Historically," the 250TP and addition of days lost is the first time I have actually received something from Turbine other than sympathetic noises and being told the couldn't/wouldn't do anything.

In real life, a Burger King, or even a Dollar Store, would be easier to deal with and provide a more satisfactory customer service experience if I came with an issue regarding their product. And I don't pay them 3 months at a time because I want to support their overhead.

The TP is a nice gesture, but adding on 2,3 or however many days they're offline before billing me again is the really demonstrative conciliatory gesture. The TP gift involves little effort, and doesn't actually effect their revenues.

The billing maintenance/upgrade is not about the DDO lag, if it actually does help, it's probably just a fortunate accident. This is being done across all Turbine games. This is about them being more cost effective in receiving revenues and probably enabling them to find new ways to encourage us to spend money in ways that try to make us forget that TP and astral diamonds/shards are our money (the less we think of it as RL money, the easier it is to spend it impulsively/frivolously.

[Uska]

oooooh. M.S. or Ph. D?

Masters this time will start the other in Jan.