Barbarian Tank questions

[dragonhighlord1]

I am trying to do my version of "beat ddo". All quest on Epic Elite(or leet if epic is not offered).

It seems while most (95% or so)of content you really do not need a tank, there are 3 or 4 raids? and and some of the epic leet stuff that tank is great method for success.

I am a 34 point horc,(currently level 13) with basically 0 named loot, at this point, except for the Eveningstar commendation stuff(pretty much get anything I need or is recommended).

I am guessing hate tank with a great axe would be best. What feats? prestige class? enhancements ? and/or gear are the must haves?

[Feithlin]

To pike everything on elite / epic elite ... you just need friends ! :)

On a more serious note, for what you seem to look for, you should probably better go for WF sorc / shiradi, or maybe the Dreadnought artie thing.

[Standal]

Barbarian hate tanking was kind of an example of how you don't need a tank. The barb takes and holds aggro, but gets beat on constantly. Your healer has to heal him through it.

The key here is to have maximum heal amp gear. The PDK gloves give 30. You can put 20% on any TOD ring, or get a pair of convalescent bracers. 10% from a lesser convo item and the ship. Your best destiny is probably Fury of the Wild.

A proper tank would probably be a stalwart defender fighter or a defender of siberys paladin. They can achieve high AC and PRR with some pretty common gear. Destiny would be Unyielding Sentinel.

[Dieterstrife]

First you're going to need to lr and take at least 12 fighter. Make sure you go stalwart, to help you tank easier.

12 fighter 8 barbarian should be good to tank with the occasional improved uncanny dodge.

Then, the rest is gear

[Riekan]

First you're going to need to lr and take at least 12 fighter. Make sure you go stalwart, to help you tank easier.

12 fighter 8 barbarian should be good to tank with the occasional improved uncanny dodge.

Then, the rest is gear

The problem with this would be as soon as you turn on the Stalwart stance you become immune to all rage effects, so the 8 levels of barbarian become useless. 8 levels of barbarian just for improved uncanny dodge is not worth it. Without the benefits of str and con going up from raging there is no reason to go barbarian at all if you want to tank. The days of hate tanking are gone with the addition of epic elite to the game. Healing amp is awesome but no where near enough to keep you alive with frenzy/death frenzy and no defensive ability. Without high AC and high PRR, no healer has any chance of keeping you alive for more than 2 hits on epic elite. 20 fighter or 20 paladin in the defensive stances are the safest way to tank now. There is also the DDD tank build which is still 20 fighter but concentrates more on damage through destinies. Look it up, it is also a good build. As a barbarian you will only be DPS and hoping that someone else can hold agro, because as soon as you pull it you will go down. This is all of course just on epic elite. In all other difficulties, you will most likely be fine as the game is almost soloable on epic hard or lower with the right gear and build.

[jbleargh]

Barbarians are not tanks... and is not the easiest class to "solo with a hireling" due to the lack of ranged damage.

That said, any properly build lvl 25 barb can do most regular quests in heroic elite with a hireling without any problem.

Exceptions would be:

New Invasion - last fight is tough without dots

Fleshmaker's Lab - need to light several runes in a short period of time... doable with fvs wings, abundant step, air savant thing.

Monastery of the scorpion - Need to do a puzzle being hit/kitting, can only be done with some self healing because the hireling will probably die.

There is also a handful that need pulling levers, stepping on plates, etc... but those can be done. Ddowiki and youtube will show how.

The only Epic Elite that my 18 barb/2 fighter 34 pt build horc has "soloed" with a hireling is Rusted Blades... the rest is simply too tough to keep the hire alive and at healing range.

The only raid that is probably doable in the highest difficulty by a lvl25 barb solo is Demon Queen (haven't tried but can't see any big obstacle). Heroic Elite Chrono is very easy, epic Elite Chrono isn't.

Gear/build...

eAntique - relatively easy to get till you make an eSOS. Breaks most DRs and you will see big numbers all the time.

Heal amp - I use a ToD ring with 20% and 30% from purple dragon gloves.

Defense - Blurry from the Bracers of Twisting Shade, Ghostly from the Treads of Falling Shadow or Mabar Cloak, Shroud Displacement clickies (a bit annoying because can't be activated while raged). Fireshield cold from Firebreak (heavy armour, my barb has a fighter splash) and the cloak clickie from one necro series (don't remember the name). Adamantine Cloak of the Bear for a bit PRR.

Epic Destinies - I usually run in Fury of the Wild with Momentum Swing, Lay Waste and Brace for impact twisted. I've done some experiments with U Sentinel, but the result is nowhere near a proper tank (capable of tanking the Lord of the Blades in higher difficulties)

This is my humble experience... I also need suggestions to improve my barb from the uber players.

The only things that I'm trying to get is that elusive eSOS shard, a encrusted ring and the PDK favor to make a Cormyrian redscale.

[dragonhighlord1]

Barbarians are not tanks... and is not the easiest class to "solo with a hireling" due to the lack of ranged damage.

That said, any properly build lvl 25 barb can do most regular quests in heroic elite with a hireling without any problem.

Exceptions would be:

New Invasion - last fight is tough without dots

Fleshmaker's Lab - need to light several runes in a short period of time... doable with fvs wings, abundant step, air savant thing.

Monastery of the scorpion - Need to do a puzzle being hit/kitting, can only be done with some self healing because the hireling will probably die.

There is also a handful that need pulling levers, stepping on plates, etc... but those can be done. Ddowiki and youtube will show how.

The only Epic Elite that my 18 barb/2 fighter 34 pt build horc has "soloed" with a hireling is Rusted Blades... the rest is simply too tough to keep the hire alive and at healing range.

The only raid that is probably doable in the highest difficulty by a lvl25 barb solo is Demon Queen (haven't tried but can't see any big obstacle). Heroic Elite Chrono is very easy, epic Elite Chrono isn't.

Gear/build...

eAntique - relatively easy to get till you make an eSOS. Breaks most DRs and you will see big numbers all the time.

Heal amp - I use a ToD ring with 20% and 30% from purple dragon gloves.

Defense - Blurry from the Bracers of Twisting Shade, Ghostly from the Treads of Falling Shadow or Mabar Cloak, Shroud Displacement clickies (a bit annoying because can't be activated while raged). Fireshield cold from Firebreak (heavy armour, my barb has a fighter splash) and the cloak clickie from one necro series (don't remember the name). Adamantine Cloak of the Bear for a bit PRR.

Epic Destinies - I usually run in Fury of the Wild with Momentum Swing, Lay Waste and Brace for impact twisted. I've done some experiments with U Sentinel, but the result is nowhere near a proper tank (capable of tanking the Lord of the Blades in higher difficulties)

This is my humble experience... I also need suggestions to improve my barb from the uber players.

The only things that I'm trying to get is that elusive eSOS shard, a encrusted ring and the PDK favor to make a Cormyrian redscale.

Thank you, lots and lots of grinding.

[Enoach]

Trade Monk for Barbarian - Keeping in mind getting Dodge will be harder on a barbarian than a monk


I think maybe the best way to evaluate a Monks ability to tank a boss is to understand what is needed on a boss by boss situation.

Damage Reduction - Goal is to cost less than it would to heal the entire party.

Armor Class: Depending on the CR of the Boss (Heroic to Epic Elite) if the AC range is possible than it is a bonus in damage reduction
Physical Resistance Rating: The more damage you can shrug off means less HP lost, which means less healing required to keep you up
Dodge %: This is better than AC - Even if capped at 25% (sans ED abilities) as it does not matter about the bosses abilities to hit you even if it is 100% as with dodge you can make that equal to 75%.
Saves: Fortitude/Reflex/Will - These are important in preventing damage and being disabled. Remember a Stunned Tank cannot hold agro.


Evasion and Improved Evasion are good tools, but only come into play vs. Reflex damage. Bosses have High damage attacks that run the gambit of Fortitude and Physical Damage mitigation. Example: ToD disintegrate is a Fort Save. LoD most of his attacks are Fort save and the Mornland Curse can be mitigated by using a Shield.

Threat: Not just intimidation but the ability to generate enough Hate to hold against the hardest of hitters. Intimidate is a tool to help bring you to the top of the list, without it, you will need to not only hit "Really Really Hard" but have much of your gear slots dedicated to Incite (hate) creation.

Self Preservation: While generally the Tank is "Supported" by a dedicated party healer, that does not mean they should not be able to heal themselves, be it HP or debilitating effects to their attributes/saves. I have at times needed this ability to allow the dedicated healer time to "Save" the rest of the party. I've also lost support due to trip/stun on the dedicated healer. The paladin advantage here is the ability to "Heal their Healer" in a pinch and I've had to do that a few times.

So is it possible to have a Monk tank? Sure.
Will it always be the best option? No. But than again a SD/DoS is not always the BEST option either.

In my last Elite ToD I was able to tank Horrath and was healed the entire time by a Cleric Aura and two bursts and didn't fall below 500 HP the entire time. Being healed by a Clonk also meant that I received the Anti-Stun regularly so I will not take full credit for my ability to require so little healing. Also between both of us we brought Horraths health down to 1/4 while the rest of the party beat on SULU.

Keeping in mind the number one reason to use a tank is to minimize resource usage. If you can't do that, than you are probably not best suited for the role.

[aradelothion]

Keeping in mind the number one reason to use a tank is to minimize resource usage. If you can't do that, than you are probably not best suited for the role.

Quoted for emphasis and truth. Can't be said enough.

[DarkForte]

Barbarians tanking were a lot more viable when their DR actually mattered, which it hasn't since u11 or so. Today, a barbarian will take more damage than pretty much anyone.

[Dieterstrife]

The problem with this would be as soon as you turn on the Stalwart stance you become immune to all rage effects, so the 8 levels of barbarian become useless. 8 levels of barbarian just for improved uncanny dodge is not worth it. Without the benefits of str and con going up from raging there is no reason to go barbarian at all if you want to tank. The days of hate tanking are gone with the addition of epic elite to the game. Healing amp is awesome but no where near enough to keep you alive with frenzy/death frenzy and no defensive ability. Without high AC and high PRR, no healer has any chance of keeping you alive for more than 2 hits on epic elite. 20 fighter or 20 paladin in the defensive stances are the safest way to tank now. There is also the DDD tank build which is still 20 fighter but concentrates more on damage through destinies. Look it up, it is also a good build. As a barbarian you will only be DPS and hoping that someone else can hold agro, because as soon as you pull it you will go down. This is all of course just on epic elite. In all other difficulties, you will most likely be fine as the game is almost soloable on epic hard or lower with the right gear and build.

Oh I agree, taking 8 barb just for that 1 ability is a complete waste of levels, however I will say that all you are losing is +2 str/con from stance, 50% hate gen (depending on who you group with, this may or may not be a problem) with a shield, and 10prr. What you gain in return is d12 hit die for 8 levels (this will partially close the gap in hp, which is why I didn't mention it earlier) and a few % more dodge as an innate. Go basic, cleave chain+gthf+spring attack+fighter/barb past lives+bastard or daxe prof, and ISM, use medium armor (terrorweb is actually really good about this. That setup get's you 13 mdb with it, and it can go higher) and a heavy shield (no mdb) and you could nearly dodge/prr tank most stuff. EELoB is out of the question, but it's not 100% an impossibility.

[Riekan]

Oh I agree, taking 8 barb just for that 1 ability is a complete waste of levels, however I will say that all you are losing is +2 str/con from stance, 50% hate gen (depending on who you group with, this may or may not be a problem) with a shield, and 10prr. What you gain in return is d12 hit die for 8 levels (this will partially close the gap in hp, which is why I didn't mention it earlier) and a few % more dodge as an innate. Go basic, cleave chain+gthf+spring attack+fighter/barb past lives+bastard or daxe prof, and ISM, use medium armor (terrorweb is actually really good about this. That setup get's you 13 mdb with it, and it can go higher) and a heavy shield (no mdb) and you could nearly dodge/prr tank most stuff. EELoB is out of the question, but it's not 100% an impossibility.

You are also losing 10% double strike from the fighter capstone, which is a significant source of DPS. My fighter tank hits a 34% double strike with gear and twists. Pretty hard for me to give that up.

[unbongwah]

Although not intended as a tank per se, I've been toying with the notion of S&B barbs (think old-school Vikings); the idea being the doublestrike bonuses from Shield Mastery help make up for lower base DPS of using, say, d.axes instead of greataxes. The main problem is they wouldn't get the +10% doublestrike bonus ftrs & pallies get from capstone & Zeal, respectively; I'm also not sure if the glancing blows bonuses from FB apply to S&B. But it's a fun idea to theory-craft. :)