Facinate in Epic Elite

[LOOON375]

I just recently built a bard to use facinate for CC.

Is it working and viable in EE?

And if so, how high should perform be? Right now Im sitting at 62.

Everything on Epic hard has been a push over as far as facinating the mobs.

Thanks in advance.

[Aashrym]

That should still work fine and still keeps you ahead of most caster DC's. The issue is still going to be with the break-on-hit instead of the actual DC's.

[sirgog]

If you have the following you should be capable of fascinating almost everything:

- +15 or better Perform item
- Max ranks in Perform
- A reasonable effort into raising Charisma (let's say 12 base or higher, +3 tome, +7 item)
- Greater Heroism

With that setup, most EE mobs will need to roll a 20 to save against your Fascinate. Possible exception of cleric mobs, some outsiders, and some CR 53+ mobs (which can have utterly extraordinary saves even in their 'bad' saves).


Fascinate is an incredibly powerful tool to use but it requires a group that are expecting it and are not idiots.

[taurean430]

On my melee bard fascinate dc sits at 72. This works on anything susceptible to it. And, as has been mentioned, it's important to note that this is not always something that is met with co operation by the rest of the party.

[sirgog]

On my melee bard fascinate dc sits at 72. This works on anything susceptible to it. And, as has been mentioned, it's important to note that this is not always something that is met with co operation by the rest of the party.

If the group can't cooperate with a Fascinate when it is needed, they should get the hell out of EE and go back to EN to learn the basics of the game.

I don't encounter many groups that try to zerg EE without legitimately being able to do it. Really there's three types of EE groups:

- The experienced EE zergers, who won't cooperate with Fascinate because they don't need it - instead they'll have a rotation of Energy Bursts or other effects to obliterate rooms full of mobs.
- The majority of EE groups that take it slowly most of the time and use tactics like Fascinate every time they get overwhelmed. These groups will cooperate with Fascinate (although mistakes happen)
- The hopelessly outmatched groups that don't coordinate at all and wipe on the third trash pull. Not even Fascinate can save these groups and they usually don't know how to use it.


If running something that's seriously difficult (for your group) - fascinate everything, and assign a 'DPS leader' who picks the target, then the whole group works on that one target. Like groups used to do in epic LOB 10% phase.

[sephiroth1084]

If the group can't cooperate with a Fascinate when it is needed, they should get the hell out of EE and go back to EN to learn the basics of the game.

That's a seriously failure of logic there, Numot. I expect better of you.

You can't demote people outclassed by the EE content they're running to EN to learn the game, because A) if that were going to happen, it probably would have somewhere between levels 1 and 20, and B) EN is such a ****ing joke that a one-armed, one-eyed, ********, monkey could complete the quests without using tactics. Honestly, if I were in a group on EN...well, first I'd punch myself, but after that I'd laugh at anyone bothering with Fascinate.

And EH isn't much better in that regard, as you well know.

[Marco_Targaryen]

If the group can't cooperate with a Fascinate when it is needed, they should get the hell out of EE and go back to EN to learn the basics of the game.

/signed



With that setup, most EE mobs will need to roll a 20 to save against your Fascinate. Possible exception of cleric mobs, some outsiders, and some CR 53+ mobs (which can have utterly extraordinary saves even in their 'bad' saves).

With perform 74 and Enthrallment I never had any problem with DC, but music of spider queen don't apply on it.

I think that a virtuoso bard with all cc songs is great on EE content.

[LOOON375]

Thanks for the responses.

[TrinityTurtle]

Not only does it work, but once the group gets it together its really really helpful in EE. We were using it the other day as the main form of crowd control. There were some problems, especially given I have some sort of bug and couldn
t see the notes the first half, and then the second half of the quest they showed up but were neon orange, and another guys graphics settings were so low hed no idea there even were little music notes...sometimes verbal/typed communication is required to organize when using fascinate.

[CoasterHops]

I have used my virtuoso bard to solo CC several Epic Gianthold Elites.

Enthrall is fascinate but one that usually takes a few hits to break, my feeling is that if you are building a bard to CC epic elite then virtuoso is the way to go, a melee virtuoso that can also bring a bit of pain.

My standard epic elite tactics: Self buff Damage mitigation before mob pulls, have the healer hard target you and group em all up and enthrall. It lasts a long time so dont be afraid about taking time to start with. I then Ottos dance the nearest mob to the party and we bash it down, I Ottos dance another and we move to that, the key is the Ottos dance acts as a target for the melee, once a mob is nearly dead, dance another just before it dies so the melee no where to go next. This is a method that will get groups through epic elite content where they arent maxed out/hard core toons who could zerg the content without issues.
If there is a good rogue in the party typically they will go freelance and assasinate mobs of their choice.
My experience of many Epic Elites is that the mobs are far more dangerous than the boss fights.

Alternatively you could use a heavily tanked out toon to group the mobs for you, but unless they have Displacement I would rather do it myself. (My split is 16/2/2 with evasion and pally dilli for saves so typically caster types arent an issue) I tend to find that displacement + some dodge + some PRR is good enough for me to do it, also it's good to have control of the situation from the outset.

Once the party gets used to this tactic it really isn't as slowas it seems.

[keveniaftw]

If used correctly, fascinate/enthrallment can be insanly powerful, especially in combinations
I actually used it to solo EE on my virtuoso 12 bard/6 ranger/2 rogue.

Enthrallment: The group of mobs stands still/Hotbar swap bow/Pin/Hotbar swap melee (TWF)/Bash the pinned mob/Back to bow for pin, with sense weakness this was very effective. I can imagine on a rough EE having a bard stop all the mobs and having one player pin a mob then bash it makes it very easy.

[CoasterHops]

If used correctly, fascinate/enthrallment can be insanly powerful, especially in combinations
I actually used it to solo EE on my virtuoso 12 bard/6 ranger/2 rogue.

Enthrallment: The group of mobs stands still/Hotbar swap bow/Pin/Hotbar swap melee (TWF)/Bash the pinned mob/Back to bow for pin, with sense weakness this was very effective. I can imagine on a rough EE having a bard stop all the mobs and having one player pin a mob then bash it makes it very easy.

Same sort of tactic I use though of course I use Ottos Dance, it puts a big "Hit Me" sign over the mobs head, but it also requires 16 levels of bard to cast it....