Please comment my Rogue TR build

[oliocean]

In a few days I will TR my Fighter into a Dex based Rogue.

Goals for my Rogue life:
level up to at least to 20 and stay there until I have
- farmed 20 dungeon tokens
- capped 1 additional Epic Destiny
- I have done 20 shroud runs
I don't want to invest heavily in farming gear
- In early levels I will use my Carniflex and maybe my MinII Greataxe
- At lv 16 I will use 2 Envenomed Blades
- Maybe I will try to get 2 Sky Pirate's Daggers from 3 Barrel Cove
- At 18 I will use the Tinker's Finesse set

Questions I have:
Is the ability distribution Ok or should I move points from STR to DEX or INT?
Which skills are important?
- For sure I have to cap DD, OL, Search, Spot, Balance, UMD.
- But what about Move Silently, Hide, Bluff and Diplomacy. Which is one important and which I could ignore?



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Darri 5 Rogue DEX
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 20
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 18
Dexterity 16 26
Constitution 15 17
Intelligence 16 22
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 31
Bluff 3 30
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy 0 1
Disable Device 7 29
Haggle 3 23
Heal -1 0
Hide 4 36
Intimidate -1 2
Jump 6 27
Listen 0 14
Move Silently 4 36
Open Lock 7 31
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 6
Search 7 29
Spot 3 23
Swim 2 4
Tumble 7 12
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Intelligence I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Bluff I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[Lonnbeimnech]

How do you plan on dealing with agro? Do you have an improved deception item? rad II weapon?

The difference in dps, between sneak attacks and no sneak attacks is huge, HUGE!

If you enjoy the run in and smash everything playstyle, then splash monk, take stunning fist and stunning blow.

No need to grind gear, you would do more dps on a stunned mob with a scroll in your hand than if you had agro and a minII great axe.

[.Revenga.]

Seems like you won't be staying a rogue for such a long time.

I'd stronly adivise going str based instead of dex as it will allow a much easier leveling process (I tend to solo alot on TR's, means aggro, means str).
Also you can use any weapon you like (like your MinII axe).

With the barb past life you actually loose some hitpoints, in return you get the 30sec rage which is pretty useless on a rogue.

You're skills are fine, take bluff over diplo if you need to choose, haggle doenst hurt etc

[oliocean]

How do you plan on dealing with agro? Do you have an improved deception item? rad II weapon?

The difference in dps, between sneak attacks and no sneak attacks is huge, HUGE!

If you enjoy the run in and smash everything playstyle, then splash monk, take stunning fist and stunning blow.

No need to grind gear, you would do more dps on a stunned mob with a scroll in your hand than if you had agro and a minII great axe.

I can craft deception items and later on I can use my Golden Guile.

Most of the time I play in groups, therefore there should be somebody else who has the aggro. I know, this will be challenging, but I also want to learn to play a pure rogue in this life.
Nevertheless, i will think about Stunning Blow. With +2 DC from my Fighter past lifes it should work.

[oliocean]

Seems like you won't be staying a rogue for such a long time.

I'd stronly adivise going str based instead of dex as it will allow a much easier leveling process (I tend to solo alot on TR's, means aggro, means str).
Also you can use any weapon you like (like your MinII axe).

With the barb past life you actually loose some hitpoints, in return you get the 30sec rage which is pretty useless on a rogue.

You're skills are fine, take bluff over diplo if you need to choose, haggle doenst hurt etc

I take the Barbarian Past life mainly because I will get the +20 hit points immediately at lv 3.
STR based is another option I considered. Currently I have a Fighter with 2 rogue levels. Going STR based would mean, I could use nearly the same gear than before. I will think about this option again.

Regarding the skills, are move silently and hide usefull e.g. to assassinate or should I dump them.

[Kinerd]

There are two good reasons to put points in Dex: to get GTWF (17), and to get Improved Sneak Attack (21, epic feat). Any spare points beyond that are superfluous and will be more useful in Int or Str. In the planner you have a base Dex of 24, so moving points around a bit is warranted. I recommend leaving your starting distribution, but putting your first three level-ups into Str (and your level 24 if you get that high). For a permanent rogue I would recommend Int, but that does not appear to be your goal. That leaves you with 16 + 3 tome + 2 level-ups = 21 Dex, perfect. The Sky Pirate's Dagger is really cool but you don't want to be using a +1 khopesh at higher levels. Similar story with the Envenomed Blade, it has its niches but if you're stuck with it it's not very enthusing. A +3 Holy of Bleed is pretty easy to craft, and will serve you very well on a rapier.

You will be very happy if you trade Rogue Damage Boost 3 and 4 for Rogue Haste Boost 3. RHB + HDB = good times.

I also think you will be happier moving to TWF faster than most melee builds, especially if you're mostly in groups. Rogue sneak attack damage adds up very quickly.

MS/Hide can be useful for surgical Assassinations, and while those are relatively rare I don't see any other skill crying out to be spent on.

[Todkaninchen]

If you get the Sky-Pirate's Dagger and/or Tiefling Assassin's Blades (or Midnight Greetings albeit with lower damage) you will do more damage with less STR and can conceivably run with 10 STR/18 DEX.

However, you will be very restricted on being able to do much damage with anything else. Sky-Pirate's is awesome though. It's a min-level 4 that has the crit profile of a keen khopesh.

However, there aren't many of the STR/DEX weapons in the game and nothing particularly good vs. undead. I'm leveling a 32-pt Assassin built around max INT/DEX for assassinate DC's. So, 2WF and most of the STR/DEX weapons so far. I do lots of damage melee with or without sneak attack damage because of the STR/DEX weapons I have but I have to grind through DR. The only weapon I have that might (partially) break DR is Staff of Nat Gann (Also STR/DEX) with Silver on it. Otherwise, I'm just trying to bluff and deception them to (untyped?) sneak attack damage vs. DR.

If you're mainly STR based, don't bother with Sky-Pirate's unless you want one for the plain old critical profile.

[oliocean]

Thanks to all who have given me some hints.

I have moved some points from DEX and INT to STR. I totaly missed the DR problem, I will run into with the pure DEX build. With more STR, my MinII Greataxe may solve that problem in most cases.
CON is not even, because I have an +1 exceptional CON item to get an even number.




Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Darri 5 Rogue STR
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 18
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 16 22
Constitution 15 17
Intelligence 15 20
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 29
Bluff 3 29
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy 3 23
Disable Device 6 28
Haggle 2 23
Heal -1 0
Hide 3 27
Intimidate -1 2
Jump 7 30
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 3 26
Open Lock 7 29
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 5
Search 6 28
Spot 3 23
Swim 3 7
Tumble 4 7
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II