Good first life 28 point build?

[ricky4105]

Hey i havent played in a long time and decided to start out as a monk again. Before i took a break i never got my 32 point build but i really would like to level a monk. I cant seem to find a good dps build that also has some survivability. I was in a dung with a lvl 7 monk running tear that went and wrecked everything (Killed everything so fast that no one else could even get a chance) without dieing once, and ending with the most kills. Is there and build like this that i could find? Thanks for reading, hope i can get some help :D

[voxson5]

There are many ways that monk you ran with could have done so well, there is a lot of twink gear for low levels now, which makes nerfed quests like tear an absolute cakewalk.

That aside, the player possibly also knew the quest very well, knowing where the spawn points are, who to target first, and best forms of damage mitigation.

So; that said, here's an idea:

28pt monk
(I like helf w/rogue dil. or wf, but can be anything really. Human & dwarf are good choices too, and many players like the other races).

Go 14 STR, CON, WIS
Go 15 DEX

That is 6+6+6+8 = 26 build points, so you have 2 spare
(Races will alter the values oc)

I would put build points into WIS & STR, but you need certain. Watermarks for some epic feats, so check out the wiki for clarification.

Feats:
Dodge
Twf chain
Stunning fist
stunning blow (personal preference to have 2 stuns)
Cleave
Great cleave
Improved crit: bludgeoning
Power attack

Go dark path, more DPS & good mitigation, easy to self heal.
That's the 10 feats you get for a non-human.

For your epic feats?
Improved martial arts
Overwhelming critical

There is a huge variety of gear to farm for, try to get the cannith frozen tunic though - while not yet nerfed; it is very powerful, as is the spare hand.

[ricky4105]

There are many ways that monk you ran with could have done so well, there is a lot of twink gear for low levels now, which makes nerfed quests like tear an absolute cakewalk.

That aside, the player possibly also knew the quest very well, knowing where the spawn points are, who to target first, and best forms of damage mitigation.

So; that said, here's an idea:

28pt monk
(I like helf w/rogue dil. or wf, but can be anything really. Human & dwarf are good choices too, and many players like the other races).

Go 14 STR, CON, WIS
Go 15 DEX

That is 6+6+6+8 = 26 build points, so you have 2 spare
(Races will alter the values oc)

I would put build points into WIS & STR, but you need certain. Watermarks for some epic feats, so check out the wiki for clarification.

Feats:
Dodge
Twf chain
Stunning fist
stunning blow (personal preference to have 2 stuns)
Cleave
Great cleave
Improved crit: bludgeoning
Power attack

Go dark path, more DPS & good mitigation, easy to self heal.
That's the 10 feats you get for a non-human.

For your epic feats?
Improved martial arts
Overwhelming critical

There is a huge variety of gear to farm for, try to get the cannith frozen tunic though - while not yet nerfed; it is very powerful, as is the spare hand.

Thanks, and is there any level that i should take "path of inevitable dominion"?

[Therigar]

Thanks, and is there any level that i should take "path of inevitable dominion"?

You will be compelled to choose at L3.

However, do not waste your time on stunning blow. It is not a good feat choice.

Stunning blow is STR based and a very slow cool down. Stunning fist is WIS based and a very fast cool down. There really is no purpose in taking stunning blow.

Monks get two epic feats -- Improved Martial Arts and Vorpal Strikes. Improved Martial Arts is available to any monk with 12+ levels. Vorpal Strikes requires 12+ levels AND WIS 23.

The secret to monk damage is getting the stun in. Stunning fist is WIS based. So is Touch of Death (the reason you choose dark path). This means you want your WIS to be as high as possible.

You also need a base DEX of 17 to qualify the whole TWF line. This is almost a requirement for monks and I don't recall reading of any monk that does not take this.

The recommended 14 STR/CON/WIS w 15 DEX is very problematic. With 14 WIS you need a +3 tome and all stat increases in WIS to get Vorpal Strikes. You need a +2 tome to get the whole TWF line unless you pull from WIS with stat increases.

Of course, pulling from WIS means lowering your stunning fist and touch of death DC.

You cannot use enhancements to help you get to the target numbers.

Many players, realizing that they don't want to make the commitment to WIS, drop Vorpal Strikes. And, without enough WIS that is probably a good choice because it really is not a good feat if you are not going to put all your effort into WIS.

So, on a 28 point build I might consider the 14 WIS/CON and go with 15 STR/DEX. Put the first 2 stat increases in DEX giving the required 17 for ITWF/GTWF. Put the next 4 stat increases in WIS for increased stunning fist DC.

Take 2 monk WIS enhancements. Take a human adaptability to round out STR.

With gear your STR will approach 24. That isn't really a lot but it can still be buffed with ship buff, rage, etc. DEX will approach 26. This is so close to the STR value that it does not justify taking weapon finesse.

Essentially, you have 1 feat left after you take the recommended list (less stunning blow). Replace it with Precision.

Half-elf is the recommended race if it is available. Human if not.

Half-elf with high WIS opens cleric as a dilettante for some wand healing -- useful at low levels and even in higher levels. With STR, DEX and CON it also opens fighter, barbarian, ranger, druid and rogue. Rogue is a good dilettante choice because you can gain a DEX enhancement to round out your score there.

Otherwise, human is probably better than other races. With the extra human feat you can consider adding IC:Pierce to the list of feats since dark monks count short swords as ki weapons.

I'm not sold on the cleave/great cleave/overwhelming critical feats, but that is somewhat of a personal choice. You can't get OC unless you have 23 STR (base, that is stats, stat increases & tomes -- no enhancement or gear). Personally, I'm not sure that it is worth surrendering the WIS DC for stunning fist/touch of death.

If you don't invest in STR then cleave/great cleave are wasted feats. Personally, I'd replace them with mobility and spring attack on the assumption that higher dodge bonuses on first live characters w/o twink items or festival gear is a good thing.

[voxson5]

Absolutely agreed on the above points, personal preferences aside of course :)

There are good arguments for both builds, Therigar is a player I have a great deal of respect for & he knows his stuff.

That said, having run both single stun and double stun builds, I definitely prefer the versatility of 2. Stunning blow will have a longer cool down and potentially lower DC - but! Does not require ki.

I think your str calc may be a little underestimated though.
(Based on drop luck, gifting from guild/players, size of OP's wallet and store specials oc)

[Therigar]

I think your str calc may be a little underestimated though.

I'm working from 15 base with 1 enhancement and no stat increases (instead the stat increases are in DEX and WIS). So, that is 16 to start.

Add in +6 STR item and it is 22. +8 at epic levels makes 24 instead. Exceptional and insight bonuses are a bit more difficult for monks because they (should) use handwraps. Without augment slots or greensteel it gets a bit tricky.

I did not include any tomes in any of the estimates. That is really the only place to make up the difference for most players. So, realistically on a first life IF they go with all the stat recommendations STR is going to fall somewhere between 22 and 28 before buffs.

You may be right that 24 is a bit low. I thought it was most likely reachable as a target.

[ricky4105]

Thanks, both of you! I can finally build a monk. I'm now working on mine, again guys thats for the help building him :D

[ricky4105]

I'm working from 15 base with 1 enhancement and no stat increases (instead the stat increases are in DEX and WIS). So, that is 16 to start.

Add in +6 STR item and it is 22. +8 at epic levels makes 24 instead. Exceptional and insight bonuses are a bit more difficult for monks because they (should) use handwraps. Without augment slots or greensteel it gets a bit tricky.

I did not include any tomes in any of the estimates. That is really the only place to make up the difference for most players. So, realistically on a first life IF they go with all the stat recommendations STR is going to fall somewhere between 22 and 28 before buffs.

You may be right that 24 is a bit low. I thought it was most likely reachable as a target.

Just wondering at L7 would it be a good idea to take Elven Dex, or Human adapt. Dex? Im at 16 Dex right now and that extra point would make me get 17 so i could spend my stat increases in a different area. Is this a good idea or should i pick a different Human adpt. ?

[voxson5]

The DEX increase needs to come from your level up points (available every 4th level).
This is done so you can reach 17 DEX by the time you need to take improved two weapon fighting.

Feats only look at your base score when determining qualification or not. Because enhancements can be easily moved around they are not counted.
Tomes do count though, so many people build with lower than qualification stats under the presumption that you have a tome to compensate.

For improved two weapon fighting you also need a base attack bonus (BAB) of 6, which means level 9 minimum for a monk. Therefore, just take your lv4 & lv8 stat points into DEX and you will be fine (or eat a +2 tome @> lv7).

[Kinerd]

However, do not waste your time on stunning blow. It is not a good feat choice.

Stunning blow is STR based and a very slow cool down. Stunning fist is WIS based and a very fast cool down. There really is no purpose in taking stunning blow.Even on a light monk I found occasions where Stunning Blow came in handy. Although I wouldn't recommend it for other light monks, it is a reasonably good choice for a dark monk, especially if the alternative is Spring Attack.
You also need a base DEX of 17 to qualify the whole TWF line. This is almost a requirement for monks and I don't recall reading of any monk that does not take this.

The recommended 14 STR/CON/WIS w 15 DEX is very problematic. With 14 WIS you need a +3 tome and all stat increases in WIS to get Vorpal Strikes. You need a +2 tome to get the whole TWF line unless you pull from WIS with stat increases.You get 2 more build points on a 28 point build, put them in Wis and now you only need a +2 tome. I wouldn't expect an effectively new player to have two +2 tomes, but by the time such a player reaches the point where Vorpal Strikes is even an option they'll be able to decide for themselves whether they want to GR/TR/etc.