Yellow slots are pretty bad while blue got too good

[LeLoric]

Moving gfl and resistance both over to blue slots leaves yellow slots with very little that anyone would want. +2 school dc's is ok but anything of real consequence casters will aim for +3 boosts or have one of the items with +2 to all schools. Resistances are easy enough to get elsewharere with the spell, ship buffs, wands, 30 point pots etc.

Blue meanwhile added more to an already pretty heavy field of augments.

In general I think most people are gonna end up wanting more blue slots then they can get and use yellow mainly for colorless augments.

Either some of blues need to be moved to yellow like good luck and gfl as these are effects mostly found on accessories anyways not armor. Either that or yellow needs a big boost. A possible change would be to add + skills of a stat like you see on shroud items. have a +3 cha skills and a +2 cha skills one that can use two yellow slots to mostly replace a shroud item would be nice.

Readding toughness as an option would be important too.

[Atremus]

They should move the HP back to Yellow to keep the change consistent with the previous system.

What do we need to do for them to bring back toughness?

[Alavatar]

What do we need to do for them to bring back toughness?

Roll a 1 or 13 on 2d6?

[Dolphious]

Agreed. Move HP back to yellow (or make it both), and add a bunch of other random stuff to yellow like: blurry, melee alacrity, incorporeal, slippery surface immunity, small dodge bonuses, and the like.

Also add tactics DCs 2/4/6/8 to red.

[Vellrad]

What do we need to do for them to bring back toughness?

Roll a 1 or 13 on 2d6?

Or pay 1k TP...

[Dilbon]

Adding a chosen skill bonus to yellow slot would be nice. +15 at level 16, +17 at level 20 and +20 at level 24 plus all lower level bonuses.

[Cetus]

yea, this is the only troublesome aspect of my visit to lamaland so far.

[Rydlic]

well this is all still suject to changes.

[dejafu]

yea, this is the only troublesome aspect of my visit to lamaland so far.

The new augment system is a fantastic, much needed breath of fresh air into the DDO loot system.

That said, yeah, this is the only real issue I have with it... but it's a BIG issue. It's compounded by the fact that yellow slots will be by far the most common ones in most people's gear since it applies to accessories.

When there's already very little I'd think about slotting into even ONE yellow slot item, I foresee a lot of empty yellow slots in my inventory.

On a related note, I see that the new named rune-arm has a yellow and colorless slot. Are yellow slots going to be the standard for runearms? If so, I'm curious why... it's an off-hand item, after all. Plus I got all excited that I would FINALLY be able to fit a decent force spell power item in my artificers inventory, but it would need to be a red slot to make it happen :(

[justagame]

While the new system overall is very interesting, I agree, Yellow slots were absolutely gutted. Some of what yellow lost (resist, false life in particular) should really be put back.

[LordPiglet]

They should move the HP back to Yellow to keep the change consistent with the previous system.

What do we need to do for them to bring back toughness?

We haven't seen all the augments yet, like the raid ones. I'm hoping for a blue that toughness/heavy fort (based on heavy fort being ml 8).

[MeliCat]

Moving gfl and resistance both over to blue slots leaves yellow slots with very little that anyone would want.

I am somewhat disappointed that GFL is no longer on yellow and agree with you that yellow now seems pretty useless.

I am hoping that maybe something unique and awesome is developed that goes into yellow. Things like that globe of imprerial blood - only for a yellow. idk what effect but hopefully something that melees can use.

[Eth]

Best thing would be if they'd put healing amp on yellow slots. Pretty please?

[Viisari]

Best thing would be if they'd put healing amp on yellow slots. Pretty please?

I'm sold, where do I sign?

[Matuse]

I don't really see why people are down on yellow augments so much. Yes, it would be nice if GFL were still included, but it's not like you won't be able to find anything to put there.

Options for Yellow:
Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Sonic resist up to 30
Poison/Disease resist up to +10
Striding up to 30
UWA
Feather Fall
Blindness Immunity
Fear Immunity
Deathblock
Archmagi
Greater Spell Focus: X

Plus of course the colorless options (+7 Stat, or +1 Exceptional Stat, or +2 Insight Stat).

I forsee no difficulty in filling yellow slots.

[HalfORCastrator]

Have 10% heal amp at lvl12 and 20% heal amp at lvl16 on yellow slots. Should stop some of the bickering. :D

[Antiguo]

Have 10% heal amp at lvl12 and 20% heal amp at lvl16 on yellow slots. Should stop some of the bickering. :D

That would be a great idea.

[LafoMamone]

I don't really see why people are down on yellow augments so much. Yes, it would be nice if GFL were still included, but it's not like you won't be able to find anything to put there.

Options for Yellow:
Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Sonic resist up to 30
Poison/Disease resist up to +10
Striding up to 30
UWA
Feather Fall
Blindness Immunity
Fear Immunity
Deathblock
Archmagi
Greater Spell Focus: X

Plus of course the colorless options (+7 Stat, or +1 Exceptional Stat, or +2 Insight Stat).

I forsee no difficulty in filling yellow slots.

I, on the other hand, forsee a lot of difficulty. Especially for pre-U14 epic items.

Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Sonic resist up to 30 - Ship Buffs
Poison/Disease resist up to +10 - simply not necessary
Striding up to 30 - only worth it for ML24 items, i.e. n/a to pre-U14 epic items
UWA - perma not necessary
Feather Fall - perma not necessary
Blindness Immunity - pots are cheap
Fear Immunity - GH scrolls are cheap. For everything else, there is Draconic Necklace/Planar Gird. Or ask your arcane nicely.
Deathblock - ML24 items, and you will STILL need a source of Deathward for level drain.
Archmagi - ML 24 items
Greater Spell Focus: X - ML 24 items, and hardly anyone i know (arcane or divine) wants to be good at more than 2 or 3 schools anyway.

Out of the ML24 slots that actually might have some use (DB, AM, GSF), they will have to heavily compete with colorless slots, given that the latter provide +7 or +2 ins bonus to any stat, and are arguably more useful.

[bbqzor]

Unless I'm mistaken, the aug level is not the level of the item slot it goes into, its the level it makes the item if the item is lower.

For example, putting a ML24 aug into a waterworks item makes the waterworks item ML24. Its to prevent using epic augs on TRs etc.

So, any epic item should be able to use the ML24 augs, provided you are level 24 to equip them. This makes several options somewhat appealing (Striding, Fear Immunity, and possibly Archmagi or Greater Spell Focus)... but in the end I think its fair to state 90% of the slots will wind up with Colorless Augs. Thats a sign a few more options might help out.

I mentioned it in another thread but will again here, the "False Life" line really needs to appear in Yellow, as it has since forever. It can be in blue too... but moving it from yellow to blue really unbalances the availability of modifiers to players, and effectively nerfs old epic items (which were designed knowing they could have GFL in those slots).

Don't be a nerfy-nancy... removing toughness now because its going back in later is fine, but removing GFL yellows because <randomness> is going to make re-gearing, again, very annoying.

[SealedInSong]

I, on the other hand, forsee a lot of difficulty. Especially for pre-U14 epic items.
(snip)

Agreed on all points.

[SealedInSong]

Unless I'm mistaken, the aug level is not the level of the item slot it goes into, its the level it makes the item if the item is lower.
(snip)


I think his point is that most yellow augments (that we know of now) are either irrelevant, easily duplicated, not necessary to be worn at all times, OR given at a level punitively high--in particular, he cites it for deathward and archmagi which you can already get at *level 5*!

Level 5 vs level 24, and the level 5 items come with other desirable mods.

Colorless, blue, and red augments offer bonuses that are either competitive (and slightly lower) or equivalent to effects found at items of the same level, and they draw from a pool of effects that most characters need on at all times that cannot be reproduced without gear.

Yellow augments as projected seem to offer poor competition or strictly inferior effects found at items of far lower level, and from a list of effects that are circumstantially relevant only some of the time that can easily be reproduced without gear.

[lronEnema]

Unless I've missed a change somewhere, Deathblock raises an item to ML 12 not 24.

Level 12 is a little late, but not appallingly so - mostly needed where deathward is going to be dispelled (off the top of my head, quests where you would want it earlier include Prisoner, Jungle, Small problem. I'm sure there are other minor ones). The others are all ML 10 and over, so assuming running elite 2 lvls over nominal quest level, yellow slot Deathblock is available - if not running elite then it is less necessary (beholders have lower DC's/HP's)

[bbqzor]

I think his point is that most yellow augments (that we know of now) are either irrelevant, easily duplicated, not necessary to be worn at all times
Hm...

I, on the other hand, forsee a lot of difficulty. Especially for pre-U14 epic items.
Striding up to 30 - only worth it for ML24 items, i.e. n/a to pre-U14 epic items
Deathblock - ML24 items, and you will STILL need a source of Deathward for level drain.
Archmagi - ML 24 items
Greater Spell Focus: X - ML 24 items
Out of the ML24 slots that actually might have some use
I took the mention of pre-U14 items (as in, items with a level of 20 tops), and the citation of lv24 items (ie post U14) and lv24 slots (which don't exist since its just a ML bump), as a completely different point.

However, the fact that a case can be made for Yellow Augs being a bit under par, while coming from multiple points of view using entirely different metrics, is, if anything, an even stronger indicator they could use a boost.

To be fair though

OR given at a level punitively high--in particular, he cites it for deathward and archmagi which you can already get at *level 5*!
Level 5 vs level 24, and the level 5 items come with other desirable mods.
is probably not the strongest reason. To get an unlocked Ioun stone, you effectively need a higher level character to do the quest, and its hardly the standard for level 5 itemization. While I can agree 24 is high for Archmagi (it shows up plenty of places at 20, and several before), level 5 is a bit much... at that point one could say 95% of mana items in the game are underpowered.

Scaling it to 20 might be more appropriate, which is something to consider. Why do all the augs have to scale up to 24? For something like Greater False Life, where 35 is more than the old 30, and 30 is at level 20, it makes sense. For others, like mana, I understand they may not want to put 225 on the lv24 tier, since right now its a "unique" mod to raid level things. But that doesn't mean everyone from 20+ should have to wait on the old Archmagi mod which has been available.

I am sure they will say, well, the old one was only 150 its an upgrade... but the old one was also underpowred and unused. Resistance is a great example, the old value of +4 was useless, and the new scale fits much better... that metric could go a long ways on the mana ones. Consider scaling it 25/50/75/100/150/200/(either skip 24, or 225). Its much more relative to items which drop, commonly, in those levels. Or, if you want to keep archmagi at 24 (since it seems to be 20+ on the loot table anyhow), at least rescale it so the modifiers match loot a bit better.

Going 25/50/75/150/175/200 makes a lot more sense. The 25 to start matches Venns Necklace, and is close to the Archivists set, and could help compensate the loss of available guild slot items for new players (a base 10 or 20 item with a 10 mana guild aug is ballpark 25). The 50 at level 4 is close to the Crimson Gemstone and a few other lv4-6 drops. The 75 at 8 matches a items like Ring of Artifice, Eldar's Focus, Pearl of Power IV-IX, etc. The 100 at 12 is a late version of the Pearl of Power X, and other assorted items. A 150 at 16 parallels shroud gear, Ring of the Artifice, etc. Having 175 at 20 means at 20, people who choose to spend the tokens on an Aug can at least get an upgrade between their lv14-16 gear and lv24... otherwise the 20 aug will just be unused.

Striding is another one which could use tuning. It is a great addition at 20+, but the intent here is to make the new system usable at all levels, without detracting from the old system. Having 30% Striding is a good fit at 20+ considering the old epic items can now all slot it. But its also virtually useless before then, since striding 30% is available commonly at 13, and very much a near mandatory mod.

I understand not wanting augs to outclass dropped loot, but it might make more sense for that to be the level 16 mod, and maybe cut 5% off the table. Considering anyone leaving Korthos can easily have 5% from the mandatory quest rewards, it might make sense for the first tier to be an "upgrade" in that case, so the low level items that basically just have a yellow slot now are "useful" over the "default gear". I mean, expecting a new player who has 5% striding, to both get a yellow slot item and then go find/buy a yellow aug, just to free up an item sllot to use for 2 levels (if he leaves Korthos at 2, until he gets to 4) in order to get the 10% striding aug anyhow.... bit of a stretch. Just let them use it early if they go through that effort, for a new player that could be a pretty complex achievement, and for old players it just means they might use the system instead of just using dropped boots and ignoring it. More meaningful participation = good times. Just some thoughts.

[Forzah]

I wouldn't mind some of the options for blue slots to move to yellow slots. However, I could also live with the proposed system. After all, it's still better to have a yellow slot than a colorless slot. I'm just gonna fill my slots with resists so that I have permanent protection against anything.

[Zerkul]

Moving gfl and resistance both over to blue slots leaves yellow slots with very little that anyone would want. +2 school dc's is ok but anything of real consequence casters will aim for +3 boosts or have one of the items with +2 to all schools. Resistances are easy enough to get elsewharere with the spell, ship buffs, wands, 30 point pots etc.

Blue meanwhile added more to an already pretty heavy field of augments.

In general I think most people are gonna end up wanting more blue slots then they can get and use yellow mainly for colorless augments.

Either some of blues need to be moved to yellow like good luck and gfl as these are effects mostly found on accessories anyways not armor. Either that or yellow needs a big boost. A possible change would be to add + skills of a stat like you see on shroud items. have a +3 cha skills and a +2 cha skills one that can use two yellow slots to mostly replace a shroud item would be nice.

Readding toughness as an option would be important too.
I agree with everything you said.

[Matuse]

Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Sonic resist up to 30 - Ship Buffs

Which go away if you die, and not everyone has access to 30 point altars.


Poison/Disease resist up to +10 - simply not necessary

While you could certainly get away with less than +10, I find both of these boosts to be essential.


Striding up to 30 - only worth it for ML24 items, i.e. n/a to pre-U14 epic items

Striding is probably the least useful option, since there are other ways to get it. But that doesn't make it useless. If you literally have it nowhere else, well now you can put it in almost any equipment position if it has the slot.


UWA - perma not necessary

Less swapping = good.


Feather Fall - perma not necessary

Completely disagree.


Blindness Immunity - pots are cheap

Drinking pots uses time and inventory/hotkey space. If you're not immune, blindness is distressingly common.


Fear Immunity - GH scrolls are cheap. For everything else, there is Draconic Necklace/Planar Gird. Or ask your arcane nicely.

UMD for GH scrolls is not cheap. The gird/necklace don't last long enough, and an arcane is not always available.


Deathblock - ML24 items, and you will STILL need a source of Deathward for level drain.

Deathblock is a level 12 augment, not 24. Death ward is of course better, but you either need "a friendly divine", or an entire inventory page of render goggles. Finger/Destruction seem specifically designed to make you roll 1s against them, and deathblock nips that in the bud.


Archmagi - ML 24 items

Yes, this is unfortunate. But it also means you do not need a dedicated SP item.


Greater Spell Focus: X - ML 24 items, and hardly anyone i know (arcane or divine) wants to be good at more than 2 or 3 schools anyway.

Which is a problem...why, exactly? Odds are you're only going to have 2-5 yellow slots anyway. At no point has anyone suggested slotting every type of spell focus.

[voodoogroves]

The big issue I have is that I will likely use yellow for "trash" minor effects.

FF is nice, so is deathblock, etc.

What would rock would be something akin to the shroud combos at a higher ML. Blindness ward + Disease 6 as one slot ... etc.

[Matuse]

Named augments that give combo abilities (or other requested ones like Healing Amp) that only go in Yellow slots would be nice.

[Jaid314]

On a related note, I see that the new named rune-arm has a yellow and colorless slot. Are yellow slots going to be the standard for runearms? If so, I'm curious why... it's an off-hand item, after all. Plus I got all excited that I would FINALLY be able to fit a decent force spell power item in my artificers inventory, but it would need to be a red slot to make it happen :(

so... for example...

the epic hellfire crossbow
the epic silver slinger
the epic doublecross bow
tier 3 alchemical crossbows
the tier 3 calomel crossbow

are somehow *not* going to provide you with the red slots that you would need?

[sirgog]

I, on the other hand, forsee a lot of difficulty. Especially for pre-U14 epic items.

Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Sonic resist up to 30 - Ship Buffs
Poison/Disease resist up to +10 - simply not necessary
Striding up to 30 - only worth it for ML24 items, i.e. n/a to pre-U14 epic items
UWA - perma not necessary
Feather Fall - perma not necessary
Blindness Immunity - pots are cheap
Fear Immunity - GH scrolls are cheap. For everything else, there is Draconic Necklace/Planar Gird. Or ask your arcane nicely.
Deathblock - ML24 items, and you will STILL need a source of Deathward for level drain.
Archmagi - ML 24 items
Greater Spell Focus: X - ML 24 items, and hardly anyone i know (arcane or divine) wants to be good at more than 2 or 3 schools anyway.

Out of the ML24 slots that actually might have some use (DB, AM, GSF), they will have to heavily compete with colorless slots, given that the latter provide +7 or +2 ins bonus to any stat, and are arguably more useful.

All of those resist buffs you mention are wiped on death.

Deathblock is MANDATORY for Fall of Truth. I died repeatedly because I didn't have a Deathblock item and was relying on the Tangleroot visors that have served me well in the past - until a dragon breath kills me, then I'm raised and insta-popped by a Destruction. Persists-through-death fire resist is of extreme importance too, and there's more important things to do when you are raised than fiddle around with a resist wand.

[DarkForte]

I, on the other hand, forsee a lot of difficulty. Especially for pre-U14 epic items.

Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Sonic resist up to 30 - Ship Buffs
Poison/Disease resist up to +10 - simply not necessary
Striding up to 30 - only worth it for ML24 items, i.e. n/a to pre-U14 epic items
UWA - perma not necessary
Feather Fall - perma not necessary
Blindness Immunity - pots are cheap
Fear Immunity - GH scrolls are cheap. For everything else, there is Draconic Necklace/Planar Gird. Or ask your arcane nicely.
Deathblock - ML24 items, and you will STILL need a source of Deathward for level drain.
Archmagi - ML 24 items
Greater Spell Focus: X - ML 24 items, and hardly anyone i know (arcane or divine) wants to be good at more than 2 or 3 schools anyway.

Out of the ML24 slots that actually might have some use (DB, AM, GSF), they will have to heavily compete with colorless slots, given that the latter provide +7 or +2 ins bonus to any stat, and are arguably more useful.

I agree for the most part. However, you can put a ML:24 augment slot on a level 20 (or any level actually) item. The only issue is that the item's ML will be raised to 24.

[LafoMamone]

All of those resist buffs you mention are wiped on death.


Deathblock is MANDATORY for Fall of Truth. I died repeatedly because I didn't have a Deathblock item and was relying on the Tangleroot visors that have served me well in the past - until a dragon breath kills me, then I'm raised and insta-popped by a Destruction. Persists-through-death fire resist is of extreme importance too, and there's more important things to do when you are raised than fiddle around with a resist wand.

Christ, we're talking about a raid that has been out for less than a week. This is the exact same sentiment that was echoed when epic LoB first came out, and once it became clear what needed to be done, it became much easier and far less dramatic than people made it out to be. Give it time. We don't know yet what works best and what doesn't.

And for the record, I never said that I wouldn't slot something like DB. I simply disagree with the notion that yellow slots currently offer plenty of good choices. There is no reason to move GFL away from yellow, and there is also no reason NOT to expand the augment repertoire with real crowd-pleasers like healing amplification, dodge bonuses, or maybe even various stages of incorporeality.

[Matuse]

In which case you should have Resist energy wand/scroll/spell

Don't go to 30, don't go to 30, and not available for most characters.


Fireshield or some other form of elemental damage mitigation items, such as Cloak of Ice, Firestorm Greaves, Ring of the Djinn, or Cannith-crafted gear.

Or a yellow slot with a resist crystal?


Get away with less than +10? I easily get away with none at all. Being poisoned now is as much of a joke as it was pre-U14, despite Turbine working towards making poisons relevant.

And yet my pale master with a +38 fort save gets absolutely wrecked by poison on a regular basis. Most fun was when I was doing a Devil Assault and the pit fiend knocked me for 30 points of con damage.


You mean you actually use UWA? Like, you have trouble swimming from A to B without dying?

Please tell me you're joking.

Did I say that drowning was a big concern? No, I said less swapping is good. In 6 years I've never drowned once. I also detest item swaps. Avoiding them is a huge priority. So yes, I look for things like UWA on items that I won't be taking off.


Again, do you have a history of dying because you don't swap your FF item in fast enough? Perma-FF can slow you down considerably and unnecessarily in many instances, which is particularly annoying if you have a bit of a zerging mentality. I learned this as soon as my first FvS got to level 17.

Love the wings. Hate the next 2 minutes after that.

Feather fall is tactical, not survival. There are only 2 times when I don't use it; Risia ice ramp jumping, and hopping off the boat to Reaver's Reach.


The 1 - 2 seconds it takes for me to move my cursor to the blindness pot on my hotbar is hardly a nuisance I'd consider spending 20 epic tokens over.

Good thing it only costs a handful of gianthold relics then, isn't it?


Well, your wish list for yellow augments seems to be rather huge.

Wish list? That's the present list of actual things.

Why are you commenting on a system you clearly have no comprehension of?

[DarkForte]

Don't go to 30, don't go to 30, and not available for most characters.

There are resist 30 pots, and resist energy (11) wands. Those drop a lot from barrels.

Or a yellow slot with a resist crystal?

It's a waste of a slot considering how often it comes up.

And yet my pale master with a +38 fort save gets absolutely wrecked by poison on a regular basis. Most fun was when I was doing a Devil Assault and the pit fiend knocked me for 30 points of con damage.

Methinks you should take a look at your saves in general. It's annoying, but you'll still fail more saves than it's worth.

Did I say that drowning was a big concern? No, I said less swapping is good. In 6 years I've never drowned once. I also detest item swaps. Avoiding them is a huge priority. So yes, I look for things like UWA on items that I won't be taking off.

I've never used UA and I never needed it, not in that necro 2 quest, not in crucible. When exactly did one ever need to swap it in?

Feather fall is tactical, not survival. There are only 2 times when I don't use it; Risia ice ramp jumping, and hopping off the boat to Reaver's Reach.

FF makes you zerg slower. No point in having it on 99% of the time, being actually detrimental.


Good thing it only costs a handful of gianthold relics then, isn't it?

I wouldn't want to burn those on these either.

Responses in red.

[LafoMamone]

Don't go to 30, don't go to 30, and not available for most characters.

Uh, yes they do. In 6 years of playing, you've never seen a CL 11 Resist Energy Wand? I see them rather frequently.


Or a yellow slot with a resist crystal?

You plan to slot all of them? I'd rather equip/use a temporary item and use the slots on something more valuable.



And yet my pale master with a +38 fort save gets absolutely wrecked by poison on a regular basis. Most fun was when I was doing a Devil Assault and the pit fiend knocked me for 30 points of con damage.

Cool, so you admit that slotting poison resist is useless, yes?

BTW, and not sure if this works for PMs since I've only played AMs till recently, but it helps if you don't let that timer count all the way down when dealing with a Pit Fiend.


Did I say that drowning was a big concern? No, I said less swapping is good. In 6 years I've never drowned once. I also detest item swaps. Avoiding them is a huge priority. So yes, I look for things like UWA on items that I won't be taking off.

My question to you is: why do you need UWA at all? I haven't used a UWA item pretty much since I started levelling my very first toon.


Feather fall is tactical, not survival. There are only 2 times when I don't use it; Risia ice ramp jumping, and hopping off the boat to Reaver's Reach.

And I keep it off, swapping it in only for the few seconds when I actually need it.


Good thing it only costs a handful of gianthold relics then, isn't it?

They cost a slot. Which is not a good thing at all, IMO.


Wish list? That's the present list of actual things.

Why are you commenting on a system you clearly have no comprehension of?

Why are you commenting when you are clearly so frustrated that people don't agree with you? If you haven't noticed, the issue of yellow augments has been brought up by multiple posters in multiple threads since the day they were announced by Tolero. So just because you feel the need to convince others of your sub-par gearing methods (like the time you suggested using the Epic Ring of the Buccaneer on an Evoker FvS), doesn't mean that it's right to just sit back and not provide criticism when there is still time to change things for the better.

And yes, it is your wish list, since you seem to find it very hard to pick and choose between things that can be replaced, replicated, or ignored entirely.

[Candela90]

Adding a chosen skill bonus to yellow slot would be nice. +15 at level 16, +17 at level 20 and +20 at level 24 plus all lower level bonuses.

This. Or e.g. +5 to charisma skills. +5 UMD would be pretty cool for almost all characters.
And moving hp here too.
Resistances 30 also are great idea.

[EllisDee37]

like mana, I understand they may not want to put 225 on the lv24 tier, since right now its a "unique" mod to raid level things. But that doesn't mean everyone from 20+ should have to wait on the old Archmagi mod which has been available.

I am sure they will say, well, the old one was only 150 its an upgrade... but the old one was also underpowred and unused. Resistance is a great example, the old value of +4 was useless, and the new scale fits much better... that metric could go a long ways on the mana ones. Consider scaling it 25/50/75/100/150/200/(either skip 24, or 225). Its much more relative to items which drop, commonly, in those levels. Or, if you want to keep archmagi at 24 (since it seems to be 20+ on the loot table anyhow), at least rescale it so the modifiers match loot a bit better.

Going 25/50/75/150/175/200 makes a lot more sense. The 25 to start matches Venns Necklace, and is close to the Archivists set, and could help compensate the loss of available guild slot items for new players (a base 10 or 20 item with a 10 mana guild aug is ballpark 25). The 50 at level 4 is close to the Crimson Gemstone and a few other lv4-6 drops. The 75 at 8 matches a items like Ring of Artifice, Eldar's Focus, Pearl of Power IV-IX, etc. The 100 at 12 is a late version of the Pearl of Power X, and other assorted items. A 150 at 16 parallels shroud gear, Ring of the Artifice, etc. Having 175 at 20 means at 20, people who choose to spend the tokens on an Aug can at least get an upgrade between their lv14-16 gear and lv24... otherwise the 20 aug will just be unused.I don't think almost any of these are reasonable. They are way too low. 150 at 16 to parallel ML11 shroud gear doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Archmagi is ML15 (FIFTEEN!!!!) on lootgen now. I submit that since spell power augments are scaled to their lootgen counterparts -- eg: +78 at ML16, just like ML16 lootgen -- so too should spell points. Make the 16 augment archmagi and then just don't have 20 or 24 augments if you want to cap it at 200.

[Matuse]

FF makes you zerg slower.

You'll be astonished at how little I care about zerg speed. Zerging isn't fun, and I play to have fun.


Uh, yes they do. In 6 years of playing, you've never seen a CL 11 Resist Energy Wand?

With a UMD of 40...


Why are you commenting when you are clearly so frustrated that people don't agree with you? If you haven't noticed, the issue of yellow augments has been brought up by multiple posters in multiple threads since the day they were announced by Tolero.

And I've also said that I think GFL should be moved back over to yellow, as well as having things like Healing Amp added.

But I find none of those effects to be useless.

I missed the part where something had to be personally useful to you in order to justify its existence at all.


And yes, it is your wish list, since you seem to find it very hard to pick and choose between things that can be replaced, replicated, or ignored entirely.

In addition to you needing to look up the meaning of "Wish list", you might also want to consider not trying to guess what other people think when they haven't mentioned it.

Are you under the impression that I'm going to try to get a set of equipment with 20 yellow slots so as to put in each of these effects? It would reflect poorly on you if you did.

[bbqzor]

I don't think almost any of these are reasonable. They are way too low. 150 at 16 to parallel ML11 shroud gear doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Archmagi is ML15 (FIFTEEN!!!!) on lootgen now. I submit that since spell power augments are scaled to their lootgen counterparts -- eg: +78 at ML16, just like ML16 lootgen -- so too should spell points. Make the 16 augment archmagi and then just don't have 20 or 24 augments if you want to cap it at 200.

Well, that could work too. I was trying not to have the augment match the best option, simply because then you could aug whatever items up to the best and invalidate 99% of the loot table. To me, it made sense to aim for a solid middle level, so augs ensured you were at least keeping up, if not maxing out.

But, it only highlights how artificially late 24 is for archmagi, and some of the rest of the scale. Without even a 175, it simply stays mostly worthless until 200 at the top end to save you slotting an item... not all that great for anyone below 24, and somewhat poorly scaled in general.

So, details aside, I'm glad we can agree its not patterned very well right now. I hope some kind of change makes it in, whatever it might be, to make it fit better.

[LafoMamone]

With a UMD of 40...

Completely unachievable, I know. I probably shouldn't bother with no-fail Heal scrolls on any of my toons either. Better try to get that UWA slotted instead.


I missed the part where something had to be personally useful to you in order to justify its existence at all.

You mean when I questioned the slotting of UWA? Aw c'mon man, I was just kidding. I have it on all my toons, and I even play the Jaws theme when I swim through the first part of Sleeping Dust. What a rush! I think last time I even peed a little.


In addition to you needing to look up the meaning of "Wish list", you might also want to consider not trying to guess what other people think when they haven't mentioned it.

I am guessing (and I know I'm so right about this) that they all want UWA on their toons. It only makes sense with this upcoming update. Also, do you think it's okay if I put two UWA augments on the same toon?

I can't tell you how much of an eye-opener our discussion has been. Thanks so much. You my boy, Matuse!

[DarkForte]

I even play the Jaws theme when I swim through the first part of Sleeping Dust.

I'm not sure if I should be happy or sad that you don't have voice chat so I don't get to see that.

[Cetus]

I cannot believe that there is disagreement about the usefulness of these yellow slots. Everyone of them Suck.

Resists? Ship buffs. Die? Get the relevant ones off a friendly caster OR swap in the relevant one on a different item for the remainder of the quest. You won't ever slot all 6 anyway, so even still you'll need a buff if you need more than 1 or 2. So, this is moot.

Deathblock? Swap it in when you need it. Plenty of Items out there. For 99% of all endgame content, a simple deathward suffices.

Greater focuses? Spell mastery +2 orb/cloak covers all of your DC's, as well as the other hand or robe of shadow for +3 majors.

Only limited to casters on this one as well.

What else?

Feather fall? Get outta here. This should be a colorless. I won't touch this easily swappable item.

Poison? Disease? underwater action? Blindness? Laughable

Striding? Get some haste clickies

Archmagi? Who cares - use 250 sp from conflux set or wizardry 10 off shadowmail when you zone in, spend your spellpoints then swap out to a better setup for the remainder of the quest. I'll NEVER slot this.

Now...the useful stuff that I would like - Greater false life, how about you add +8 stats/insightful 3 stats for yellow slot for super customizability? How about exceptional fortification? How about 3% doublestrike? Lesser guard effects? Stunning/Vertigo/Shatter/Tendon Slice 6-8% ?

I can get MUCH more creative with what kind of things to put into yellow than this crappy system.

Sorry for sounding off a bit harsh, but this could be so much better than it is now. There is nothing that yellow provides that I would want permanently. I'll end up using them as a colorless

Blue Augments >> Colorless slot Augments > Yellow Slots right now

[FestusHood]

Once again you folks seem to not realize that the devs make this game for everybody that plays it, not just you elitist types. I don't care that you can hit umd of 100 at level 4 on your barbarian. Most people can't. You must be awfully fast at the crucible swim if you can manage it without a UA item. Bravo for you!

You say that all of these effects are easily slotted elsewhere if you want them. So are all of the things that you are asking for. If you want the highest available effect for the level you are, then put it in a gear slot. These are for extras, and i for one would not really like to see them completely make every other gear effect obsolete at all levels.

[Cetus]

Once again you folks seem to not realize that the devs make this game for everybody that plays it, not just you elitist types. I don't care that you can hit umd of 100 at level 4 on your barbarian. Most people can't. You must be awfully fast at the crucible swim if you can manage it without a UA item. Bravo for you!

You say that all of these effects are easily slotted elsewhere if you want them. So are all of the things that you are asking for. If you want the highest available effect for the level you are, then put it in a gear slot. These are for extras, and i for one would not really like to see them completely make every other gear effect obsolete at all levels.

huh, this post doesn't make much sense to me

Do crucible swim without a ua item? Swap one on instead of having it permanently. Do you need ua in detour or caught in the web?

All these affects aren't easily slotted elsewhere, they're easily swapped into on a need by need basis instead of wasting mats for permanent additions that are useful in only niche situations.

Work put in: Grinding for Mats
Reward: superior gear consolidation (which leads to build uniqueness)

Where in this interplay are gear effects obsolete, especially at ALL levels?

This system has nothing ot do with elite vs. casual players. A more involved system caters to all players. Removing GFL from yellow slots is a detriment to casuals as well.

[Habreno]

Blue Augments >> Colorless slot Augments > Yellow Slots right now

Only part I disagree with. You can at least throw something else in a Yellow (granted, maybe not worth much, but you can still do it) and even still, a Yellow can always take a Colorless.

I'd probably (knowing how useful* Yellows are) say:

Blue >> Yellow ~ Colorless


* Sarcasam check. Roll 5d20. Roll of 100 or lower fails.

[Cetus]

Only part I disagree with. You can at least throw something else in a Yellow (granted, maybe not worth much, but you can still do it) and even still, a Yellow can always take a Colorless.

I'd probably (knowing how useful* Yellows are) say:

Blue >> Yellow ~ Colorless


* Sarcasam check. Roll 5d20. Roll of 100 or lower fails.

Heh, thats why I wrote colorless augments instead of colorless augment slots

What I meant was that all of the augments that go into a colorless slot are better than the exclusively yellow ones imo

[SableShadow]

Once again you folks seem to not realize that the devs make this game for everybody that plays it, not just you elitist types.

I don't understand this comment.

Yellow got worse.

All the players you apparently hate are already sorting out how they're going to get green slots where they currently have yellow to make up for the move in gfl/resist/prot that comes with this change.

The people who are going to be most disadvantaged are not the people you think will be.

[FestusHood]

huh, this post doesn't make much sense to me

Do crucible swim without a ua item? Swap one on instead of having it permanently. Do you need ua in detour or caught in the web?

All these affects aren't easily slotted elsewhere, they're easily swapped into on a need by need basis instead of wasting mats for permanent additions that are useful in only niche situations.

Work put in: Grinding for Mats
Reward: superior gear consolidation (which leads to build uniqueness)

Where in this interplay are gear effects obsolete, especially at ALL levels?

This system has nothing ot do with elite vs. casual players. A more involved system caters to all players. Removing GFL from yellow slots is a detriment to casuals as well.

I have no disagreement with adding greater false life to a yellow slot. What i don't like is the blanket statement that all of these augments are completely useless, made several times in this thread. Sure, let's put every desirable effect into a slot. Heal amp? sure. Archmagi at level 5? Why not.

Again, these slots are meant to be something extra.

Here is a list of the current on live available effects for yellow slots.

Greater false life
Underwater Action
Featherf alling
Wizardry 6
Proof against Poison +6
Proof against Disease +6
Blindness Immunity
Fear Immunity
Spell focus

Notice that they are the same augments? So why all the big fuss that the NEW augments suck. Apparently, the yellow augments have always sucked.

Now you can slot some of these effects, in a lesser version pre-epic. No way that's not a win.

Now i know all you ubers don't think anyone actually plays the game below level 25, but believe me, out here with the Helots, there are plenty.

One thing i want to say about blindness immunity. All of my toons have it by level 5, period. Back when i first started playing, i ran the quest Faithful Departed. During the endfight, i had about 20 cure blindness pots. The spammage of blindness was so extreme that they were useless, because as soon as i drank one i was blinded again before i could move. I used up all 20 pots in less than a minute, and was still blind.

[Cetus]

I have no disagreement with adding greater false life to a yellow slot. What i don't like is the blanket statement that all of these augments are completely useless, made several times in this thread. Sure, let's put every desirable effect into a slot. Heal amp? sure. Archmagi at level 5? Why not.

Again, these slots are meant to be something extra.

Here is a list of the current on live available effects for yellow slots.

Greater false life
Underwater Action
Featherf alling
Wizardry 6
Proof against Poison +6
Proof against Disease +6
Blindness Immunity
Fear Immunity
Spell focus

Notice that they are the same augments? So why all the big fuss that the NEW augments suck. Apparently, the yellow augments have always sucked.

Now you can slot some of these effects, in a lesser version pre-epic. No way that's not a win.

Now i know all you ubers don't think anyone actually plays the game below level 25, but believe me, out here with the Helots, there are plenty.

One thing i want to say about blindness immunity. All of my toons have it by level 5, period. Back when i first started playing, i ran the quest Faithful Departed. During the endfight, i had about 20 cure blindness pots. The spammage of blindness was so extreme that they were useless, because as soon as i drank one i was blinded again before i could move. I used up all 20 pots in less than a minute, and was still blind.

Extra? Us "elitists" have a current setup that is getting shafted, how is this extra? I want my current stuff compensated first before I try to squeeze out anything "extra".

And no, yellow augments haven't "always" sucked, because today yellow has false life and resistance. Tomorrow it won't, and resistance got bumped up to blue. Hence, yellow got worse. FURTHERMORE - toughness is removed COMPLETELY.

Whatever, I give up. According to feather's response rate, my feedback isn't going to change anything anyway it seems. Enjoy your new system.

[Dilbon]

GFL is serious business.

[FestusHood]

I don't understand this comment.

Yellow got worse.

All the players you apparently hate are already sorting out how they're going to get green slots where they currently have yellow to make up for the move in gfl/resist/prot that comes with this change.

The people who are going to be most disadvantaged are not the people you think will be.

You mention resistance. It's +4. Are people really slotting that? Protection is +4. Most people that care about these effects are slotting them with higher values.

Nightshield gives plus 3 to saves. Most people consider that bonus to be too low to be worth considering. But not being able to slot plus 4 is worth rage posting?

You can readily buy protection plus 3 potions and plus 4 and 5 versions aren't that uncommon. Shield of faith goes up to plus 5.

As i said before, i agree losing greater false life is rough. It's the complaints about the other stuff, like elemental resists being useless that bothers me. No more useless than the resistance and protection you can currently slot.

[SableShadow]

As i said before, i agree losing greater false life is rough.

It's not rough, it's annoying. That's all.

I simply pointed out that you're further polarizing the conversation with this "elitist" nonesense.



It's the complaints about the other stuff, like elemental resists being useless that bothers me. No more useless than the resistance and protection you can currently slot.

The rhetoric could use a bit of a tone down; help with that.

[FestusHood]

It's not rough, it's annoying. That's all.

I simply pointed out that you're further polarizing the conversation with this "elitist" nonesense.



The rhetoric could use a bit of a tone down; help with that.

I'll tell you why i use the term elitist in this way, and in almost all cases it stems from the assumption that everyone can use umd easily.

In this thread specifically, it is in response to the stated point that caster level 11 resist wands are easy to get therefore being able to slot elemental resistance in a yellow slot is completely useless.

I decided to try this umd thing, so i made a fighter with a level of bard, so that he could take full ranks in umd. He also has the feat skill focus umd, a persuasion item, and a charisma of 20. He is level 16, and guess what? He STILL cannot reliably umd a caster level 11 resist wand, or a heal scroll obviously.

The assumption is, apparently that he will, of course have a charisma skills greensteel item to boost his umd. No fighter is going to make a charisma skills item before a hp item. No fighter is going to make a charisma skills item before he makes a weapon. Therefore it follows that all melee characters have at least 3 pieces of greensteel.

I'm saying that assuming this as de rigeur is an elitist attitude.

Swapping in a dedicated elemental resistance item means swapping out something else that is otherwise more useful.
If you can't cast the spell, yellow slotting something like fire resistance, which is useful almost all the time, seems better to me than yellow slotting a low level saves resistance. Ditto with protection plus 4. Blindness immunity is highly useful, as is fear immunity.

So in summation, when i said earlier that the game is made for everybody, i meant that it was even meant for gimpy players who don't have 3 pieces of greensteel.

[SableShadow]

I'll tell you why i use the term elitist in this way, and in almost all cases it stems from the assumption that everyone can use umd easily.

Yes, no one has mentioned groups, pots, House P, or guild buffs yet.



I'm saying that assuming this as de rigeur is an elitist attitude.

I think you're just fitting this entire thread into your existing worldview.

If your whole argument is "but now I can get resists!" ... why didn't you have them before? The new stuff isn't going to be free any more than the old options were. :confused:

Plenty of folks I run with can't wand a resist; that's part of why I'm there, to back them up.

Assuming the don't carry resist pots.



Blindness immunity is highly useful, as is fear immunity.

I find slots for those on my guys. Too handy if you're in a dispel rich environment.



So in summation, when i said earlier that the game is made for everybody, i meant that it was even meant for gimpy players who don't have 3 pieces of greensteel.

Like I said, fitting it into your worldview.

The biggest improvement with the change is deathblock and striding, imo.

And the fact that augments are now drops as well as purchasable, which adds a random "omg! awesome drop!" element instead of a generic token grind.

The most annoying part is the move of false live to blue; but that's all it is, annoying.

[EllisDee37]

The most annoying part is the move of false live to blue; but that's all it is, annoying.For me the move of resistance from yellow to blue is equally annoying.

[Cetus]

You mention resistance. It's +4. Are people really slotting that? Protection is +4. Most people that care about these effects are slotting them with higher values.

Nightshield gives plus 3 to saves. Most people consider that bonus to be too low to be worth considering. But not being able to slot plus 4 is worth rage posting?

You can readily buy protection plus 3 potions and plus 4 and 5 versions aren't that uncommon. Shield of faith goes up to plus 5.

As i said before, i agree losing greater false life is rough. It's the complaints about the other stuff, like elemental resists being useless that bothers me. No more useless than the resistance and protection you can currently slot.

Take a look at the resistance +4 augment in the new system. Useful or not, use it as an apples to apples comparison. Its being removed as a potential yellow slot filler and turned into a potential blue slot filler. Resistances 5,6, and 7 subsequently appear as slot fillers for higher and higher level characters - yet the slot remains blue where it otherwise could have been yellow with the same attribute progression.

As far as resists are concerned, nobody ever said to remove them. If you like them, by all means slot them. My concern is with regard to these abilities being the ONLY ones available in that list, and to me they suck.

Again, whether yellow is better or worse isn't up to opinion - its obviously worse.

Whether the existing augments are crappy or not IS up to opinion, and my opinion is that they are pretty bad. Therefore, I advocate for the addition of more useful ones in addition to these, including the reversion of false life, so that we can both benefit from this system. I'm not advocating for their removal, in fact I think that resists should be colorless upgrades instead, they are a fairly trivial buff to obtain in my opinion.

This system has absolutely nothing, zilch, nada to do with casual vs "elitist" gamers. This is a system that all of us are being forced into.

[SableShadow]

For me the move of resistance from yellow to blue is equally annoying.

I follow you. I've toyed with it from time to time, but I don't currently have resist slotted. Doesn't mean it doesn't bork up someone else's build, tho.



This system has absolutely nothing, zilch, nada to do with casual vs "elitist" gamers. This is a system that all of us are being forced into.

Won't matter, man; even pointing out that it screws him over more than it does you or I doesn't phase him.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face ...

[FestusHood]

Yes, no one has mentioned groups, pots, House P, or guild buffs yet.
My guys do carry the resist pots, they take up a lot of space and they only last for what? 7 minutes? Most of the times i remember to renew them is after i am hit with a spell i wish i'd had a resist on for.



I think you're just fitting this entire thread into your existing worldview.
Everyone posting in this thread is basing their comments on their existing worldview.


If your whole argument is "but now I can get resists!" ... why didn't you have them before? The new stuff isn't going to be free any more than the old options were. :confused:
It absolutely will be free, since it will be able to be placed into the auxiliary slot of an item, which, prior to this update, would not have had a slot.


Plenty of folks I run with can't wand a resist; that's part of why I'm there, to back them up.
I don't have the luxury of always partying with an ideal group. Most of the time i roll short man or even solo and often resists spells aren't available.


I find slots for those on my guys. Too handy if you're in a dispel rich environment.

Blindness immunity i agree. It will be nice to get it off of the goggles, and not to take up a prefix with it. Fear immunity? How do you slot that? I've never looted it on an item and i don't think it can be crafted. If you mean epic yellow slots i agree. It will be nice to be able to slot it before then.


Like I said, fitting it into your worldview.
As always.


The biggest improvement with the change is deathblock and striding, imo.
These i actually don't care much about. Deathblock really is easy to swap in, i don't find it needed all that often. The striding values are too low. I just usually wear 30% boots, or cast expeditious retreat, which actually is easy to umd or get on a clicky.


And the fact that augments are now drops as well as purchasable, which adds a random "omg! awesome drop!" element instead of a generic token grind.
Yes. I like that both are available. I like getting drops, but i also like not having to depend on them if i really want something.


The most annoying part is the move of false live to blue; but that's all it is, annoying.
For my toons that don't have cove hats with superior false life, i suppose being able to yellow slot this would be good. I generally dedicate an item slot to it. So i guess slotting this would be good.

[SableShadow]

For my toons that don't have cove hats with superior false life, i suppose being able to yellow slot this would be good. I generally dedicate an item slot to it. So i guess slotting this would be good.

Then what is problem? :confused:

[EllisDee37]

Fear immunity? How do you slot that? I've never looted it on an item and i don't think it can be crafted. If you mean epic yellow slots i agree. It will be nice to be able to slot it before then. I generally umd GH scrolls for that.

[FestusHood]

Take a look at the resistance +4 augment in the new system. Useful or not, use it as an apples to apples comparison. Its being removed as a potential yellow slot filler and turned into a potential blue slot filler. Resistances 5,6, and 7 subsequently appear as slot fillers for higher and higher level characters - yet the slot remains blue where it otherwise could have been yellow with the same attribute progression.

As far as resists are concerned, nobody ever said to remove them. If you like them, by all means slot them. My concern is with regard to these abilities being the ONLY ones available in that list, and to me they suck.

Again, whether yellow is better or worse isn't up to opinion - its obviously worse.

Whether the existing augments are crappy or not IS up to opinion, and my opinion is that they are pretty bad. Therefore, I advocate for the addition of more useful ones in addition to these, including the reversion of false life, so that we can both benefit from this system. I'm not advocating for their removal, in fact I think that resists should be colorless upgrades instead, they are a fairly trivial buff to obtain in my opinion.

This system has absolutely nothing, zilch, nada to do with casual vs "elitist" gamers. This is a system that all of us are being forced into.

Protection and resistance just seem to me to be things that are already primary attributes on a lot of named items. If not on a named item, i consider saves resist to be worthy of taking up an item slot to get higher than plus 4.

I agree that for the most part, the existing yellow slot effects are pretty crappy. Funny thing is, it's the low values of resist and protect that make me think those particular augments are unusable. So to me, losing those is a non factor. Blindness immunity and Fear immunity, and possibly wizardry 6 are actually the most usable current augments to my mind, along with greater false life.

I'm mostly excited that these slots will be able to be used prior to level 20 since most of my toons are not level 20,
and those that are soon won't be.

As far as elemental resists being a fairly trivial buff to get, they are, except when they aren't. Most of my toons are in guilds which don't have 30 resist shrines. I join guilds because i like the people in them, not because of what they can give me. Some of my toons can cast the spells, some can't. Some can umd the wands, some can't.

Having the saves resists go to higher values now, i can see how you would say it would be nice if they had remained in yellow slots. But not being as good as it might have been doesn't necessarily mean it is worse than the current system, since it doesn't go that high. That's how i see it.

[FestusHood]

I generally umd GH scrolls for that.

See my post at # 54 for my thoughts about that.

[Matuse]

Striding? Get some haste clickies

This just made me laugh and laugh and laugh. "Get some haste clickies"...because 30 second haste off a clickie is so uber useful.


Archmagi? Who cares - use 250 sp from conflux set or wizardry 10 off shadowmail when you zone in

Adore the assumption that everyone has the ability to get the conflux bonus. 375 PDK favor just falls from the sky like rain, yes?

Don't like an ability? DON'T USE IT! I missed the part where you were compelled to fill yellow slots with things you don't like.


I can get MUCH more creative with what kind of things to put into yellow than this crappy system.

So, because there are things you want more, the things you don't want shouldn't exist. Gotcha. The game revolves around you.

So quick question. If you have an item with a yellow slot, will you simply refuse to put anything into it to protest this grave injustice?

[FestusHood]

Then what is problem? :confused:

I never said i did have a problem with it. It's the one thing that i can actually see why it is inconvenient to move it from a yellow to a blue slot. Not necessarily because it affects me (stepping out of my narrow worldview for a second there)

[FestusHood]

This just made me laugh and laugh and laugh. "Get some haste clickies"...because 30 second haste off a clickie is so uber useful.



Adore the assumption that everyone has the ability to get the conflux bonus. 375 PDK favor just falls from the sky like rain, yes?

Don't like an ability? DON'T USE IT! I missed the part where you were compelled to fill yellow slots with things you don't like.



So, because there are things you want more, the things you don't want shouldn't exist. Gotcha. The game revolves around you.

So quick question. If you have an item with a yellow slot, will you simply refuse to put anything into it to protest this grave injustice?

Be careful, you are dangerously close to exhibiting a worldview.

[SableShadow]

stepping out of my narrow worldview for a second there

Be careful, you are dangerously close to exhibiting a worldview.


Sorry, I was trying to be nice.

"Chip on your shoulder" might be a tad more accurate. :D

[FestusHood]

Won't matter, man; even pointing out that it screws him over more than it does you or I doesn't phase him.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face ...

Sorry, i just now noticed this one. I admit i can be pretty dense sometimes. Explain to me again how this change in the system screws me over. Please be specific as you apparently know how my toons are geared.

[FestusHood]

Sorry, I was trying to be nice.

"Chip on your shoulder" might be a tad more accurate. :D

No need to be nice on my account, i'm a big boy.

[Cetus]

This just made me laugh and laugh and laugh. "Get some haste clickies"...because 30 second haste off a clickie is so uber useful.



Adore the assumption that everyone has the ability to get the conflux bonus. 375 PDK favor just falls from the sky like rain, yes?

Don't like an ability? DON'T USE IT! I missed the part where you were compelled to fill yellow slots with things you don't like.



So, because there are things you want more, the things you don't want shouldn't exist. Gotcha. The game revolves around you.

So quick question. If you have an item with a yellow slot, will you simply refuse to put anything into it to protest this grave injustice?

I provided my opinion. If you have a problem with it, then good - because my feedback isn't going to get incorporated anyway, so you're getting exactly what you want. Enjoy the new system.

And just to point out - Haste clickies are 1:30. Welcome to shroud and Echrono. =D

Seriously, it comes on a quiver if you are that adamant about striding 30. What are you going to say next? Not everybody knows or can do abbot?

I'm not looking to take away any of the augments, I'm simply calling the system massively incomplete.

[Cetus]

Sorry, i just now noticed this one. I admit i can be pretty dense sometimes. Explain to me again how this change in the system screws me over. Please be specific as you apparently know how my toons are geared.

You yourself don't even know how your toons are geared because as you have mentioned, your characters are still progressing to 20, let alone 25. As you equip higher ML gear, your entire setup is going to change 5 times over between now and then.

Us "elitists" actually have a static endgame gear setup; the construction of which you haven't experienced yet. A setup that required lots of planning and grinding, with painful incorporation of attributes such as greater false life, resistance, fortification, toughness, etc into the few slots we DO have. And now, they get moved, or in the case of toughness - removed.

Before epic gianthold was announced, I spent the last 2 weeks ransacking 5 characters in each of the epic desert quests to get spiked turban mats because it worked to consolidate charisma 6 / resistance 5 / and greater false life on a helm slot. The GFL would've went into the yellow slot, and the charisma into the colorless. Resistance was already present on the item. And now, the devs just "decide" to move GFL to a blue slot, essentially making even that item useless now, an item that, mind you, I spent a considerable amount of effort to make and still haven't found the seal for as I write this.

Of course, with gh announced - I won't care about that helm anymore particularly, but the point remains. Blue slots are much rarer than Yellow slots, therefore making the attributes that moved over there harder to incorporate. Yes, this includes YOUR gear setup.

[FestusHood]

You yourself don't even know how your toons are geared because as you have mentioned, your characters are still progressing to 20, let alone 25. As you equip higher ML gear, your entire setup is going to change 5 times over between now and then.

Us "elitists" actually have a static endgame gear setup; the construction of which you haven't experienced yet. A setup that required lots of planning and grinding, with painful incorporation of attributes such as greater false life, resistance, fortification, toughness, etc into the few slots we DO have. And now, they get moved, or in the case of toughness - removed.

Before epic gianthold was announced, I spent the last 2 weeks ransacking 5 characters in each of the epic desert quests to get spiked turban mats because it worked to consolidate charisma 6 / resistance 5 / and greater false life on a helm slot. The GFL would've went into the yellow slot, and the charisma into the colorless. Resistance was already present on the item. And now, the devs just "decide" to move GFL to a blue slot, essentially making even that item useless now, an item that, mind you, I spent a considerable amount of effort to make and still haven't found the seal for as I write this.

Of course, with gh announced - I won't care about that helm anymore particularly, but the point remains. Blue slots are much rarer than Yellow slots, therefore making the attributes that moved over there harder to incorporate. Yes, this includes YOUR gear setup.

Do you realize that you can legacy slot all the items you have now, and won't have to change them if you don't want to?

[Viisari]

Do you realize that you can legacy slot all the items you have now, and won't have to change them if you don't want to?

You mean that Spiked Turban that he doesn't even have at the moment? Getting a specific item from desert can be notoriously difficult.

Changing so many good augments for blue is a bit silly but I guess they're going to add something for them in the future since U18 already has planned named augments.


Adore the assumption that everyone has the ability to get the conflux bonus. 375 PDK favor just falls from the sky like rain, yes?

The favor is rather easy to get if you want it, Belly and Well are the most difficult ones and you can have on of them on EH or EN.

[Tid12]

And just to point out - Haste clickies are 1:30. Welcome to shroud and Echrono. =D


And Haste pots lasting 2:00 from Commendation Trader. Unbound. Can buy off the AH.

Seriously people, before talking at least know what you are talking about.

As Durnak said, do abbot if you want quiver.

You don't have favor for the 250 SP bonus from CitW set? Then good, here is an item for you: It's called Spidersilk robe (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Spidersilk_Robes). Will you argue that you will have 50 less SP now? Archmagi is meh at best, it should have been at least Wizardry IX.

GFL and Resistance should be back to Yellow slots.

[Matuse]

Seriously, it comes on a quiver if you are that adamant about striding 30. What are you going to say next? Not everybody knows or can do abbot?

I have an upped Abbot quiver on my main. But I'm also not going to pretend that this is something that anyone can EXPECT to have.

In 50ish Abbot runs, the one I have is the only one that has dropped (not just for me, for ANYONE in those runs, almost all done H or E) or appeared on 20th end lists. I still haven't seen a litany show up under anyone's name, ever.

The trend I've noticed in the "ZOMG YELLOW SUCKZORZ!" crowd is wild assumptions about gear and build layout. Like everyone walks around with 40 UMD (including at very low levels...oh yea, slots aren't just in epic items anymore!), has perfect PDK favor, gets uber-rare drops from seldomly run raids, an endless supply of rare wands, belongs to a level 85+ guild, etc, etc.

What I see is a huge amount of entitlement complex. "I don't personally find this effect useful, so the system sucks!". Usually followed by intimations that anyone who thinks any given yellow effect is desirable is a bad player. Very mature.

Can you find anyone who approves of having GFL/Resistance taken out of yellow?

Can you find anyone who has opposed adding effects like Healing Amp or Lores or Element Absorb, etc to yellow?

Because I haven't. Thinking that the current choices are useful is hardly the same thing as wanting nothing to change.

[Cetus]

I have an upped Abbot quiver on my main. But I'm also not going to pretend that this is something that anyone can EXPECT to have. Work = Reward. If you think striding 30 is THAT good, then you'll run your abbots.

In 50ish Abbot runs, the one I have is the only one that has dropped (not just for me, for ANYONE in those runs, almost all done H or E) or appeared on 20th end lists. I still haven't seen a litany show up under anyone's name, ever. And I got my litany on my 2nd run ever on my kensei. Luck swings both ways. Bottomline: I'm not asking for striding 30's removal, I'm just saying that it really isn't that important given its appearance on items elsewhere.

The trend I've noticed in the "ZOMG YELLOW SUCKZORZ!" crowd is wild assumptions about gear and build layout. Like everyone walks around with 40 UMD (including at very low levels...oh yea, slots aren't just in epic items anymore!), has perfect PDK favor, gets uber-rare drops from seldomly run raids, an endless supply of rare wands, belongs to a level 85+ guild, etc, etc. Assumptions? Look at all of the gear, most of them have yellow slots. Thats evidence for the statement that placing GFL in a yellow slot is much more accommodating than blue. How is this an assumption? LOOK at all the gear. Its all yellow.

Second, you don't need level 85 guild for your resists. In my experience, most people that are reasonably interested in improving their builds are at least in a level 60 guild for all of their resists.

Third, hey do you know what the statement "all yellow augments suck" is? An opinion. This is me typing, and to me all of these augments aren't worth a ****. So yes, they do ALL SUCK, as far as I'm concerned, because I am the one providing that opinion. They may be amazing to you.

What I see is a huge amount of entitlement complex. "I don't personally find this effect useful, so the system sucks!". Usually followed by intimations that anyone who thinks any given yellow effect is desirable is a bad player. Very mature.

Can you find anyone who approves of having GFL/Resistance taken out of yellow?No.

Can you find anyone who has opposed adding effects like Healing Amp or Lores or Element Absorb, etc to yellow? No.

Because I haven't. Thinking that the current choices are useful is hardly the same thing as wanting nothing to change So, in the end we both agree that the yellow slot system is incomplete. Ok, great. Instead of you going aroudn in circles about my opinion, lets hear your opinion about how you'd like to improve this yellow slotting system.

Red

[SealedInSong]

(snip...)
Well, your wish list for yellow augments seems to be rather huge. Odds are you covered your schools of importance with +3s, like someone said before...and if you haven't, you should. Colorless augments will provide enough competition for the rest.

I mostly like the new augment system but mostly every comment regarding the weakness of yellow I find reasonable. Well-stated.

[WruntJunior]

The favor is rather easy to get if you want it, Belly and Well are the most difficult ones and you can have on of them on EH or EN.

My way of getting exactly 375 favor is actually all 3 chains EE, Web/Belly/Well EH, 5-star challenges - that gets you exactly 375 favor. >_>

The main 3 chains can be easily done on EE as long as you get a couple competent people and are competent yourself (hardest one being Reclaiming the Rift).

More on-topic-ish, I'm sad that yellow slots are kinda bad, but I'm super happy for yellow slot 30% striding.

[Viisari]

(hardest one being Reclaiming the Rift)

Cheese is good.

[FestusHood]

You mean that Spiked Turban that he doesn't even have at the moment? Getting a specific item from desert can be notoriously difficult.


This same argument can be used for the statement that's been put forward that striding is worthless, since everybody can just equip an Abbot quiver.

[LeLoric]

This has nothing to do with casual versus hardcore players. It's a simple math problem. Yellow comes on accessories and therefore will be more prevalent than blue slots. Blue has many more desirable effects than yellow.

Green accessory slots can help here somewhat but it still boils down to not enough good effects on yellow and too may on blue. Changing false life and resistance over to blue further amplifies this issue.

[Matuse]

Green accessory slots can help here somewhat but it still boils down to not enough good effects on yellow and too may on blue.

It's difficult to say since the vast majority of old named items haven't been re-discovered on Lamania to see what their slotting is going to be. The gianthold items are further complicated by the various epic difficulty versions frequently featuring an upgrade on the slot colors (Madstone Skull goes from Purple + Yellow to Purple + Orange, for example).

But looking over the list, it's not like currently where you generally only see Blue/Green on Armor and Shields with the occasional rare exception (cove ring, jerky pouch).

Blue, Green, or Purple slots are found on:
Gloves of Forgotten Craft
Ring of Stormreaver Prophecy
Bulwark Of Storm's Fist (Purple AND Blue)
The Turmoil Within
Giantcraft Siberys Compass
White/Blue/Black Dragon Helms
Arcing Sky
Madstone Skull
Adamantine Knuckles
White/Blue/Black epic Armors of all flavors.

What existing named items will be joining that group? I'm guessing a fair number.

[LeLoric]

It's difficult to say since the vast majority of old named items haven't been re-discovered on Lamania to see what their slotting is going to be. The gianthold items are further complicated by the various epic difficulty versions frequently featuring an upgrade on the slot colors (Madstone Skull goes from Purple + Yellow to Purple + Orange, for example).

But looking over the list, it's not like currently where you generally only see Blue/Green on Armor and Shields with the occasional rare exception (cove ring, jerky pouch).

Blue, Green, or Purple slots are found on:
Gloves of Forgotten Craft
Ring of Stormreaver Prophecy
Bulwark Of Storm's Fist (Purple AND Blue)
The Turmoil Within
Giantcraft Siberys Compass
White/Blue/Black Dragon Helms
Arcing Sky
Madstone Skull
Adamantine Knuckles
White/Blue/Black epic Armors of all flavors.

What existing named items will be joining that group? I'm guessing a fair number.

Yes and compare that to the number of yellow capable slots amongst those and it still highly favors yellow which was my point. I can pull out a larger list of older epic items with blue capable slots but the sheer fact is for almost any good gearset you will see more yellow slots than blues.

[Cetus]

It's difficult to say since the vast majority of old named items haven't been re-discovered on Lamania to see what their slotting is going to be. The gianthold items are further complicated by the various epic difficulty versions frequently featuring an upgrade on the slot colors (Madstone Skull goes from Purple + Yellow to Purple + Orange, for example).

But looking over the list, it's not like currently where you generally only see Blue/Green on Armor and Shields with the occasional rare exception (cove ring, jerky pouch).

Blue, Green, or Purple slots are found on:
Gloves of Forgotten Craft
Ring of Stormreaver Prophecy
Bulwark Of Storm's Fist (Purple AND Blue)
The Turmoil Within
Giantcraft Siberys Compass
White/Blue/Black Dragon Helms
Arcing Sky
Madstone Skull
Adamantine Knuckles
White/Blue/Black epic Armors of all flavors.

What existing named items will be joining that group? I'm guessing a fair number.

That list is tiny compared to the one I can pull up that have only yellow and colorless slots.

Furthermore, 2 of your items are rune-arms, 1 is a shield, 1 is a set of handwraps, 1 is an orb and you included the armors, which ALWAYS have a blue slot.

^ All of these are equipped in your hands.

So, as far as accessories are concerned, your toon can get an extra green slot either off- one ring, one trinket, and a pair of gloves.

3.....

So, in order to get back an effect I'm wearing in yellow right now, I am forced to wear a specific ring, gloves, or trinket in order to get it back because those are the only items that have the blue slot needed now.

Edit: Missed the Helms - these are among my favorite items in this whole pack. Actually a truly useful item - I bet a different dev designed these.

That enforces the point.

[DarkForte]

This same argument can be used for the statement that's been put forward that striding is worthless, since everybody can just equip an Abbot quiver.

Striding IS mostly worthless, and at best, a mere convenience. No build is any worse for raiding/ee questing due to not having 30% striders, due to the fact that most of those groups will either have an arcane with haste, or will have enough melees with haste clickies, or you can just chug haste pots. If I get any extra slots on my stuff (for example, my melee FvS has an open yellow slot on his epic mask of comedy), I'll stick striding in there for lack of something better for running through wilderness areas. If I don't? Doesn't matter.

Losing 30 HP while gaining nothing you wouldn't have had, on the other hand objectively makes your toon undeniably worse.

[WruntJunior]

Striding IS mostly worthless, and at best, a mere convenience. No build is any worse for raiding/ee questing due to not having 30% striders, due to the fact that most of those groups will either have an arcane with haste, or will have enough melees with haste clickies, or you can just chug haste pots. If I get any extra slots on my stuff (for example, my melee FvS has an open yellow slot on his epic mask of comedy), I'll stick striding in there for lack of something better for running through wilderness areas. If I don't? Doesn't matter.

Losing 30 HP while gaining nothing you wouldn't have had, on the other hand objectively makes your toon undeniably worse.

This isn't exactly true - a build with Master's Blitz, for example, can lose quite a bit of damage by not having 30% striding if that prevents them from getting to another enemy fast enough (even losing one tier is a decent damage drop) - still mostly convenience, but it does have occasional importance.

That said, augments should have some convenience items such as striding...though yellow slots need some solid good options, too, as they're not doing good enough.

[Matuse]

Yes and compare that to the number of yellow capable slots amongst those and it still highly favors yellow which was my point. I can pull out a larger list of older epic items with blue capable slots but the sheer fact is for almost any good gearset you will see more yellow slots than blues.

I didn't deny that yellows are more common than blues. I only said that it looks like blues will be more common than they currently are.

But yellow has more effects period, so this isn't a huge deal. The problem is that blue has a higher ratio of "must have" effects. Yellow has some 20 effect types, blue only has 9. But of those 9, 5 are desirable by everyone:

+PRR
Heavy Fort
GFL
Good Luck
Resistance

Those are the big ones. Fitting in 5 blue slots in a gearset is likely going to be difficult-to-impossible. However, you also won't really -need- that many blues, since some of your gear is going to come with those things (resistance and heavy fort are both common enough). Getting 2-3 blue slots will not be too onerous.

[dejafu]

Fitting in 5 blue slots in a gearset is likely going to be difficult-to-impossible. However, you also won't really -need- that many blues, since some of your gear is going to come with those things (resistance and heavy fort are both common enough). Getting 2-3 blue slots will not be too onerous.

Heavy fort has actually been surprisingly hard to come by on new gear since MotU. You've got it on a couple of named heavy armors and that's about it. My biggest headache whenever trying to determine new gear setups lately has been trying to craft yet another Mineral II greensteel item for every character.

[FestusHood]

Striding IS mostly worthless, and at best, a mere convenience. No build is any worse for raiding/ee questing due to not having 30% striders, due to the fact that most of those groups will either have an arcane with haste, or will have enough melees with haste clickies, or you can just chug haste pots. If I get any extra slots on my stuff (for example, my melee FvS has an open yellow slot on his epic mask of comedy), I'll stick striding in there for lack of something better for running through wilderness areas. If I don't? Doesn't matter.

Losing 30 HP while gaining nothing you wouldn't have had, on the other hand objectively makes your toon undeniably worse.

If striding is truly worthless, why do so many people grind the abbot quiver? Why would someone obtain all of these haste clickys/pots just to simulate it's effect? For the record, i'm not likely to throw haste with my arcane just to simulate a striding effect, not even for myself.

Also, they didn't just move gfl to blue, they also removed toughness. So slot the new hp effect in blue where you would have previously had toughness.

It's quite possible that the devs simply don't want every good effect to be available in an augment slot.

People have mentioned that a lot of named gear has augment slots that don't fit the pattern. Let us also consider that there will be named augments, which also will not fit the pattern. If you could just pick up every good one down at your local convenience store, then what would be left for these?

[Matuse]

Also, they didn't just move gfl to blue, they also removed toughness.

It's not removed, it's removed from vendors. Feather said they will introduce the Toughness augment as a named drop.

[kingfisher]

i still dont understand their logic in moving gfl and resistance. was there a note on this? the removal of toughness was explained 'to limit stacking' or some similar nonsense, which in reality will only hurt the players they are trying to help.

[Cetus]

It's not removed, it's removed from vendors. Feather said they will introduce the Toughness augment as a named drop.

Yea, in U18.

[Eth]

It's not removed, it's removed from vendors. Feather said they will introduce the Toughness augment as a named drop.
Oh that's great to know.
Considering this and the one unique slot effect we already have in U17 (globe of imperial blood), I think this discussion here might not be all that necessary.
I know usually we can't have nice things, but I have a good feeling we will see GFL and resistance on yellows, heavy fort on blues and a bunch of other stuff (still - healing amp, pls? :D).
You just won't be able to trade in for them, but have to find them.

...and yes, probably not in U17, but could be worse.

[~spathic]

In addition to false life and healing amp, how about enhancement or insight bonus to skills at upper levels? Since skills and yellow slots are associated with equipment, it would fit thematically to put a skill bonus that stacks with the regular competence bonus. Maybe +1/3/5 for ML 16/20/24 and +1/+2 for UMD at 20/24.

[Tid12]

Oh that's great to know.
Considering this and the one unique slot effect we already have in U17 (globe of imperial blood), I think this discussion here might not be all that necessary.
I know usually we can't have nice things, but I have a good feeling we will see GFL and resistance on yellows, heavy fort on blues and a bunch of other stuff (still - healing amp, pls? :D).
You just won't be able to trade in for them, but have to find them.

...and yes, probably not in U17, but could be worse.

That's actually a very nice idea.

Make the traders give GFL, Toughness and Resistance BLUE Augments but make the Yellow version of these augments drop in quests also.

[voodoogroves]

I wouldn't mind higher-level yellow augments that gave
- resist to whatever AND not fail saves on a 1 (poison, disease, etc.)
- combined capabilities, a la shroud bits - blindess & disease, bundled
- etc.

It does suck that HP moved. That's a blow.

[Indoran]

Best thing would be if they'd put healing amp on yellow slots. Pretty please?

this!!!

[SealedInSong]

In addition to false life and healing amp, how about enhancement or insight bonus to skills at upper levels? Since skills and yellow slots are associated with equipment, it would fit thematically to put a skill bonus that stacks with the regular competence bonus. Maybe +1/3/5 for ML 16/20/24 and +1/+2 for UMD at 20/24.

I like this suggestion.

Healing amp in yellow slots seems very strong...I'd be all for the flexibility, but it would only seem fair if it were in common amounts (10/20/30).

Edit: stacking with competence bonus seems perhaps too strong. Also, augments are generally nonstacking enhancement bonuses so it wouldn't scale well. I'd think it'd be less problematic to add:

ML--Bonus
4--+3
8--+6
12--+9
16--+12
20--+15

all types as competence. That way, we preserve the flavor of customization without stacking power creep. Maybe ML20-24 would have enhancement-typed +1-2 skill bonuses.

[Forzah]

this!!!

Wow, you necroed a thread just to say "this!!"?

[LightBear]

I like what's on yellow at the moment but it could use more.

Like mentioned skills and healing amp would fit in here but how about some spells or some summons?
Or what to think of dodge, spell resistance or spell absorption?
Why not go a bit further and drop something like omniscience, greater luck, warding, prisms etc etc on augments?

Why stop at yellow and go all whack on red as well?
Throw in paralyzing, metal line, aligned, vorpal, banishing, smiting, radiance and such on reds?
Why not take that even further and drop something like Crusader, Destroyer, Rebel etc etc on augments?

[SirValentine]

Adding a chosen skill bonus to yellow slot would be nice. +15 at level 16, +17 at level 20 and +20 at level 24 plus all lower level bonuses.

Though I agree with adding skill bonuses, I don't agree on the numbers. Slots should be about flexibility and utility, not getting the highest bonuses. I think the highest bonuses should be only on appropriate named items. This is just like only having +6 stat at level 20, +7 at 24, and no +8 option.

[Natashaelle]

Wow, you necroed a thread just to say "this!!"?

Given what "this!!" is, Carry On Necromancing !!!

(Though given the topic in question, isn't this a maxed-out Epic Heal sent out to a wounded comrade-in-arms instead ????)