U17 epic dragon armors

[Gratch]

The cost to make any set is: 20 flawless [blue/white/black] dragon scales, 10 of each refined relics (these drop in epic gianthold chests), and 3 commendations of heroism

Feather of Sun noted the dragon armors will get updates (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4859740#post4859740) on Lama before they hit live.

Feather of Sun also said the current drop rate of epic scales (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4860583#post4860583) will remain the same.

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/7165/flawlessarmors.jpg

(there is an exhaustive set of Light, Medium, Heavy, Robe, Docent from each trader - I just wall papered a few together).

[Symerith]

First of all, thanks for posting.

Black: Very interesting for a ranged character. That's +2 damage, -15% armor piercing for a total of -40% fortif bypass on a ranged character! Comes down to the proc rate for the relentless fury and if it can stack. Will def. get one of these armors.


Finally, have you seen how many scales you need for the armors?

[patang01]

Also, the relic crafted armors are updated. They now come with a level 23 version for 10 epic relics. It's not bad considering. The Epic blue dragon armor is okay; I mean stacking 15 spellpower (since it's relic then I assume it stacks with spionic from the planar). But greater lore, spell pen 9 and potency?

Oh well. At least it has an augment slot unlike the spiderweb.

[FZTopaz]

I am assuming either the dragonscale helms are the epic versions of the older dragon helms, or this is something new to make with scales?

[FZTopaz]

First of all, thanks for posting.

Black: Very interesting for a ranged character. That's +2 damage, -15% armor piercing for a total of -40% fortif bypass on a ranged character! Comes down to the proc rate for the relentless fury and if it can stack. Will def. get one of these armors.


Finally, have you seen how many scales you need for the armors?

I can vouch that the non-epic blackscale procs quite often...same with the haste guard.

[Gratch]

Finally, have you seen how many scales you need for the armors?

Full recipe listed above, but it's 20 Epic Flawless scales for each... no nonepic armor needed. I'd guess the Epic Flawless scales fall in the Epic Tor quest hopefully at higher rates for higher epic difficulties.

[shadereaper33]

First of all, thanks for posting.

Black: Very interesting for a ranged character. That's +2 damage, -15% armor piercing for a total of -40% fortif bypass on a ranged character! Comes down to the proc rate for the relentless fury and if it can stack. Will def. get one of these armors.


Finally, have you seen how many scales you need for the armors?

Relentless fury has a 100% proc rate when you kill an enemy of equal or higher level to yourself, with reduced proc rates against lower level enemies.

[Jaid314]

First of all, thanks for posting.

Black: Very interesting for a ranged character. That's +2 damage, -15% armor piercing for a total of -40% fortif bypass on a ranged character! Comes down to the proc rate for the relentless fury and if it can stack. Will def. get one of these armors.


Finally, have you seen how many scales you need for the armors?

depends if you bother with precision or just use the precise shot stance.

[Symerith]

depends if you bother with precision or just use the precise shot stance.

Precision stacks with PS stance and IPS stance.

[Kabaon]

So the question now is, does it look different too, or did they just reuse the same armors?

[Antiguo]

First of all, thanks for posting.

Black: Very interesting for a ranged character. That's +2 damage, -15% armor piercing for a total of -40% fortif bypass on a ranged character! Comes down to the proc rate for the relentless fury and if it can stack. Will def. get one of these armors.


Finally, have you seen how many scales you need for the armors?

If its the same proc rate as the heroic version, its pretty high.

[Dolphious]

Black is really the only one that looks interesting at all. I don't have a regular blackscale, does relentless fury stack with itself? If it does that could be pretty sweet, if it doesn't it's still a decent rogue armor for at least situational use against high fort enemies. Not amazing, but decent.

White is silly. Those AC bonuses just don't mean much, and the protection part is all over the place. Maybe 0.5% more miss chance in EE. 50 stacking HP with the helm is alright I suppose, but the armor itself seems like a joke. Was hopping for +50% exceptional fort and/or a decent PRR bonus.

Blue has the same arcane lore as the lvl 14 version? I suppose its OK if you actually need everything on it, but I doubt many will. Most casters will already have better lore and better spellpower. Maybe the spellpen will attract some people? Not me...
Would have liked major lore (at least), and implement bonus to spellpower, and an purple slot so you could slot 114 spellpower if you want. Was secretly hoping for transform kinetic energy, but knew it was probably a pipe dream..

[Chronotrip]

Looks like they Hardly even touched the dragon scale armor, mostly just added a set bonus with the Helms. I for one was really looking forward to Epic GH, but if all thats to be had is junk, well looks like its back to the TR grind :/

[Kabaon]

Well Tor items/Raid items are being upgraded. I mean the Globe of Imperial Blood becomes an Augment.

I say that's better than it was.

[sirgog]

Flavor-wise, I'm surprised these don't have 20% elemental absorb like the Cormyrian ones do. Not a huge deal though.

A lot of the power of these armors comes from the fact that a blue slot is 14 PRR (if that goes live as-is).

[Shmuel]

Overall, the more I think about it, the more I like this new augment system. These armors, however, need a few buffs.

I know FoS has said he doesn't like the idea of creating "must have" items (although I really don't understand why not), but a lot of the newer stuff is tetering towards the other side of the spectrum, not "must-have" more like "second-rate-for-every-build".

Here are a few minor changes that would make these much better:

Instead of the set bonuses, make those draconic things native to the armor alone, without needing the helm. For all of them, give them +3 caster levels for spell damage and have them add 1d8 weapon damage for their native element type (electric for blue, cold for white, acid for black).

For the black armor, up the damage more for ranged and thrown weapons, give it something like stacking ranged alacrity 25%, or up the bonus to ranged damage from the non-set bonus to +4 or +5.

For the white armor, add something else defensive and watery (like grant the slippery mind feat or something else that exists nowhere else) and make it protection +8.

For the blue, the really problematic one, (meaning gimpy), it should be MAJOR arcane lore, and also something else, like 50-100 STACKING spellpoints (or wizardry 12ish), or up the potency to 100. It also should have some other bonus, perhaps up the max caster levels for all spells by 1. I was really hoping, and I know I am not alone, that this would be THE caster robe in the game, just like the original one was when GH first came out. Even if it is now anathema to have an item be obviously the best item for a specific class or build, as it is now, I cannot see why any caster would even want this in lieu of already existing robes or the ee shadowmail.

my 2cents

[susiedupfer]

Not a single item with Divine Lore.

[dejafu]

Not a single item with Divine Lore.

Arcane Lore works on all spells, arcane and divine.

If you're going to make the exact same complaint in multiple threads, please make sure you understand what you're talking about.

[HatsuharuZ]

I wonder if it will be possible to trade in a number of normal dragonscales for a flawless one?

[phalaeo]

Said it in the other thread, but it can't be said enough...
Blue Scale should have Major Lore already. Greater is just not enough to grind for it.

[Tharlak]

Is there an upgrade path if you already have the dragon armor?

[MeliCat]

The cost to make any set is: 20 flawless [blue/white/black] dragon scales, 10 of each refined relics (these drop in epic gianthold chests), and 3 commendations of heroism (omg these better fall somewhere(s) in epic gianthold as well).



heroic comms?

lol

oh no... we're all going to be LIVING in CITW now. which bright spark wanted to stop people from swapping out at the end?

i really really really hope that they drop in epic GH as well - and in a much more reliable drop rate. possibly in a much more FUN way than CITW also too. please. OH PLEASE.

[4tonmantis]

I agree with the sentiment that for end game.. which is what these would have to be geared towards at that ML.. there is waaaaaaay better Planeforged Lootgen and other items that are just flat out easier to farm for or otherwise acquire. I thought it was said that the team was aware that Epic items weren't worth the grind for the effect. This is basically two steps back.

Also, the devs need to look at how much of the stuff that's out there overlaps. I got a TOD ring with exceptional Con 2.. awesome.. except.. that I just turned in for Bracers of the Sun Soul.. and PDK Gloves..
With this armor, especially the blue.. it is a very similar story.. and it's not even optimal considering the effects that were listed. I will have to look more closely at each one individually.. maybe there are subtleties, but outside of the higher armor rating and set bonuses, the rest is just extremely underwhelming.


EDIT: I just realized the TOD Ring was con 1, but the point still stands.

[UurlockYgmeov]

heroic comms?

lol

oh no... we're all going to be LIVING in CITW now. which bright spark wanted to stop people from swapping out at the end?

i really really really hope that they drop in epic GH as well - and in a much more reliable drop rate. possibly in a much more FUN way than CITW also too. please. OH PLEASE.

I would hope that HC's would drop in the new epic GH raid.... that would make sense - and if they aren't - they should.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Also, the relic crafted armors are updated. They now come with a level 23 version for 10 epic relics. It's not bad considering. The Epic blue dragon armor is okay; I mean stacking 15 spellpower (since it's relic then I assume it stacks with spionic from the planar). But greater lore, spell pen 9 and potency?

Oh well. At least it has an augment slot unlike the spiderweb.

I would expect major arcane lore - I know how powerful that is - but this is supposed to be endgame armor.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Is there an upgrade path if you already have the dragon armor?

it doesn't appear there is - and according to the release notes - as of U17 you won't be able to swap in old non-epic dragonscale armor for the revised version.

[4tonmantis]

The other thing I forgot to mention.. but kinda deals with the overlap thing.
Why oh why do the devs keep giving casters stuff that buffs spell points, lore, spell power, etc etc.. and forgetting that what most casters need desperately are more freakin HP. On Cannith you see a ton of guys with 4 digit HP and that's great for epic content.. but casters are having to really really really scrap stuff together to keep from being uber squishy. Unless I mis-remember, Magister has no way of increasing your HP.. nor do the majority of other caster-specific items. Blue Scale armor would probably be better off dropping frankly anything from it's list and adding Superior False Life or anything really.

[Syllph]

so with the blue armor and the blue helm my sorc would gain a blue, colorless, and yellow. (this is based on the EN version.)

doesn't seem like much of an improvement. (assuming here they will offer + Charisma. If they don't this set is even worse)

Helm gives yellow + colorless +3 insight

Level 24 colorless will give +7 to a stat or +2 insight. I'm already getting +8 CHA (goggles) and +3 insight (Focus) so colorless is pretty much useless. Additionally +3 insight is innate on the helm so that's completely redundant. Sure I could add +7 CON or +2 insight con but I already have that and I'd be gearing a helm just to have +2 con when I could make a Greensteel HP helm that's infinitely better (Heavy fort +45 HP and more) Greensteel will probably be easier to get than the EE version too.

the yellow gives +35 to an elemental resist, 200 SP, or a greater focus. Using Twilight and a focus I get +250 SP which would not stack with the +200 SP of the yellow and +2 focus is covered pretty much anywhere else. Marginally useful.

Blue gives +7 AC, greater spell pen IX (very nice), greater Lore, Potency 80, and a blue slot. using a twilight set I get almost all of that (one less spell pen) and much more.

The green scale armor gives so much more: better AC +9 (kind of useless for my caster but hey), toughness - very useful, resistance, absorption, +6 to all resists, Proof +10, and of course +10% more Spell points.


All in all seems pretty lack luster to me. I can't imagine changing from my Green armor for 1 spell pen. Plus with the Twilight set everything else this blue set offers is redundant and two of the three augment slots are also made redundant. I would gain a wimpy +15 (most likely) stacking bonus to everything. Just doesn't seem worth it.

2/10 rating from my caster.

[soloist12]

I would expect major arcane lore - I know how powerful that is - but this is supposed to be endgame armor.

Yeah, people are using superior lore to aquire a ML 25 item with greater lore? lol.

So far, this looks like a huge grind for 15 spell power and 1 spell pen.

No thanks.

[oradafu]

Black is really the only one that looks interesting at all. I don't have a regular blackscale, does relentless fury stack with itself? If it does that could be pretty sweet, if it doesn't it's still a decent rogue armor for at least situational use against high fort enemies. Not amazing, but decent.

White is silly. Those AC bonuses just don't mean much, and the protection part is all over the place. Maybe 0.5% more miss chance in EE. 50 stacking HP with the helm is alright I suppose, but the armor itself seems like a joke. Was hopping for +50% exceptional fort and/or a decent PRR bonus.

Blue has the same arcane lore as the lvl 14 version? I suppose its OK if you actually need everything on it, but I doubt many will. Most casters will already have better lore and better spellpower. Maybe the spellpen will attract some people? Not me...
Would have liked major lore (at least), and implement bonus to spellpower, and an purple slot so you could slot 114 spellpower if you want. Was secretly hoping for transform kinetic energy, but knew it was probably a pipe dream..

These are pretty close to my thoughts of the Epic dragonscale armors.

The black dragonscale armor appears fine as is and honestly what I expected it to should be.

However, White and Blue Dragonscale is a bit of a let down.

White Dragonscale needs some additional Exceptional Fort on it or increased PRR. Maybe 50% is asking too much, but as it stands, the ML 24 Leaves of the Forest appears in my mind to be better armor than this, even if the White Armor has more AC.

As for the Blue Dragonscale Armor, it needs something more to be worth the grind. As stated, Major Arcane Lore would seem like the natural progression for Epic Armor. Also, increasing the Potency to at least 85.


Flavor-wise, I'm surprised these don't have 20% elemental absorb like the Cormyrian ones do. Not a huge deal though.


I'm not too surprised about the lack of Elemental Absorption on these armors. It seems to be one of those Ebberon vs FR things. Appears the Devs have made the Elemental Absorption on Dragonscale to be FR only. Might be only for Flavor or... It might be leaving the door open for possible Cormyrian Blue/Black/White Armors in a future update.

[Dieterstrife]

Totally random question, but can anyone get me the Max Dex bonus for the Flawless White Medium armor?

I will love you forever.

[4tonmantis]

Totally random question, but can anyone get me the Max Dex bonus for the Flawless White Medium armor?

I will love you forever.

Flawless White Medium is Armor Bonus +26, Max Dex 8, Check Penalty -1, 25% ASF

[Ebergar]

Have anyone checked green dragon armor changes? Did it get any augment slots?

[fool101]

IDK,

The white dragonscale is looking pretty sweet for my 12monk/8fighter.

I would probably use the blue dragonscale for my wizzie simply because I do not have any gear yet with potency that high, or greater spell pen 9. I also only am using normal arcane lore. Although if the grind is too much it would probably be a year or so till I acquire any of them anyway.

I can understand the disappointment with the blue armor if a person already has end-game gear though.

[Saravis]

IDK,

The white dragonscale is looking pretty sweet for my 12monk/8fighter.

I would probably use the blue dragonscale for my wizzie simply because I do not have any gear yet with potency that high, or greater spell pen 9. I also only am using normal arcane lore. Although if the grind is too much it would probably be a year or so till I acquire any of them anyway.

I can understand the disappointment with the blue armor if a person already has end-game gear though.

The thing is, the Ingot Arcanum staffs have 80 Potency AND +30 Implement Bonus, while running Tor to pick up all the dragonscales you need, you're more than likely to pick up at least one of the staffs. While the greater arcane lore and greater spell pen ix is nice, those can be found elsewhere and with less effort to acquire.

I don't even have much end-game gear and I'm rather disappointed by it and I say that finally having seen what the helms look like. I wanted to withhold judgment until I saw what the Dragonscale Set looks like and overall its just very disappointing, especially with the amount of effort required to obtain it all.

[Dolphious]

IDK,

The white dragonscale is looking pretty sweet for my 12monk/8fighter.
.
Can you elaborate on that? What about white is attractive for you? the 50 stacking HP from the two item set?

[Missing_Minds]

Can you elaborate on that? What about white is attractive for you? the 50 stacking HP from the two item set?

he likes to wear a white wedding dress.

*grumbles about lack of outfits*

[Kirlian]

White looks good. It is known.
Black has its advantages. It is known.
Blue needs upgrade in all aspects. It is known.

[SealedInSong]

(snip...) doesn't seem worth it.

2/10 rating from my caster.

Where can I find the stats for the epic helms and for the ingot arcanum staves? (thanks in advance)

I think all of these points are good ones.

Personally, I think I understand why Feather is hesitant to implement major arcane lore--currently we can only get it by wearing three pieces of equipment: something with with gAL, and the two pieces of Rahkir's set.

However, since there are sources of greater arcane lore at level 12 (Greenblade) and Rahkir's set is lvl 18, one would think that mAL might be acceptable this late in the game (lvl25).

Barring the addition of mAL, I don't think that the blue scale offers as much slot consolidation as it should. As was pointed out earlier, green scale offers a lot more competitive slot consolidation.

Power store in particular is something very desirable for any caster and normally offered either on three pieces of equipment (Eveningstar set) or a two-handed weapon (staff of the petitioner). The current destiny enhancement in Magister that is supposed to replicate its effects is untwistable and also doesn't even provide the 10% discount it's supposed to (iirc it's bugged at -5% nonstacking enhancement bonus).

I'm not clamoring for something best in slot--in fact, I think there have been too many items released in MotU that are best in slot and not by much, thereby killing diversity and not for a very big payoff. I already see enough people in dragonscales and caparisons and spiderspuns and stone hearts.

I think the epic gianthold sets should be a good choice to create some new (not code intensive) effects that really ask players to make a choice about their gear.

Ex: Epic Blue Scale
armor +10
draconic mind set
greater spell pen IX
arcane strike (All spell criticals damage is increased by adding 0.75 to the spell damage critical damage multiplier. This effect does not stack with other item effects or potions)
superior lightning resistance
blue slot

Spell pen IX is only offered on eGreen Blade and Magewright's Spectacles as far as I know, so greater spell pen IX and the draconic mind set are the only truly novel and appealing things on this armor. The rest is slot consolidation (gAL, slot) and irrelevant gravy (armor, lightning res).

I would urge Feather to think of giving the blue and white armors a unique flavor and character like the black scale, rather than trying to make it yet another consolidation item that doesn't even fulfill that purpose.

More novel player suggestions for epic gianthold loot:
Trillea OP http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232401
Shade OP http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=392821

[MeliCat]

With the exception of the heroic comms, these armors are not that hard to get ingredients for - so maybe they should be on par with clerics, Druids, wizards etc hand ins

However if heroic comms remain as hard to get as the have been to date maybe we won't see that many people investing in these armors.

I will wait and see what the vanilla raid options look like and a genuine idea of the heroic comms drop rate before I get excited.

[Epitome]

Are these fullplates the highest AC in the game now for armors when adding their armor bonus with their max dex bonuses?

[Dolphious]

With the exception of the heroic comms, these armors are not that hard to get ingredients for - so maybe they should be on par with clerics, Druids, wizards etc hand ins

However if heroic comms remain as hard to get as the have been to date maybe we won't see that many people investing in these armors.

I will wait and see what the vanilla raid options look like and a genuine idea of the heroic comms drop rate before I get excited.

As I think about it more, I'm inclined to agree with this. Looks like flawless scales will drop like regular scales do now on live (not like they did before the recent boost), which means 3-6 scales total for a EH run (between all the dragons), so about 4-5 EH runs and some trading and you have the scales. Relics are even easier to get than faction coms in eveningstar. Heroic Coms are a big sticking point for those of us that are trying to upgrade a CiTW item, but if you're not doing that it's pretty easy to get just three coms.

IOW, they're just not the grind that the other epic dragonscale armors are, and I think their power was designed to be "solid endgame" but not the new "best of the best."

I don't know how keen on this design I am, I kind of liked "dragonscale armor" being something you worked towards as a long term goal, but I'm not the one who makes those calls, so it is what it is.

The helms also look quite nice, so I think you can kind of take the set bonus as a given if you wear the armor.

[ormsbygore]

***Repost***
This is a repost of my opinion on the Dragonscale Armor/Helms from the "Epic Gianthold - Other Quest Loot" thread, but I thought it might fit here as well.
***


As a lot of people have already done...I'd like to comment on the Dragonscale Armor/Helms. Most all the other loot I've seen posted looks really nice, even if I don't have a use for it, somebody will.



#1 - I LOVE the fact that you've added a set bonus for the Dragonscale Armor/Helms. The bonuses are a little underwhelming, but they are there, it's a start at least. I know I've put in my suggestions for this stuff in the past, and plenty of others have as well.



#2 - I'm kinda disappointed that the Dragon Helms don't have Breath Weapon clickies anymore. It would be really cool, if for nothing else but a role play factor or nostalgia, to have a 3-5 charge breath weapon clickie(maybe a toned down version of the Dragon Breath ability from the Sorc ED) that refreshes a charge every minute or so.

Also assuming that the +3 exceptional stat on the helms is random, similar to a bunch of the newer loot. DDOwiki shows that they have +8 or +3 exceptional stat bonus, of a random stat between a predetermined set of three stats depending on the helm.(+8 or +3 Exception of --> Black/White: Str, Con, Dex; Blue: Int, Cha, Wis)



#3 - Dragonscale Armors...I can't say much that others haven't, but I'll add my 2cp. First thing I'd like to note is they have a higher ML(minimum level), but are either on par or not as good as the Cormyrian Green/Red armors, in my opinion.

Blue - Redundant caster based effects. Not necessarily a bad thing, different people with different builds slot different things in different places...this requires a bit of redundancy. On the other hand, it's going to be new and shiny, so everyone is going to want a reason to want it...and it's kinda bland, save the set bonus. It's also not a big step up from the non-Epic version, same goes for the rest of them. I believe it, and the white armor, should have a unique effect similar to the black armor.

-- Suggestion:
----- Arcane Resurgence(spell point conservation proc): (small%)5% chance on casting a spell, regenerate (small%)3-8% SP over 30 seconds.(doesn't stack if recast, just resets timer)

White - Basically it's in the same situation as the blue, redundant tank based effects, not bad...but not the "Ooo! Shiney!" everyone is looking for. Not going to repeat.

-- Suggestion:
----- Hardened Scales(defensive bonus guard): (small%)5% chance on being hit, gain (small# eNAC or % AC)+2 Exceptional NAC and (small#)+2 PRR for 30 seconds.[Stackable 5-10x?(would be +10-20 eNAC and +10-20 PRR, once max stack is reached, can't proc for another 60-120 seconds?)...if not then increase the bonus received and duration]

Black - Don't have much to say for this one. Like most have said before me, it's fairly decent. I'd personally like to see it geared toward ranged a bit more, but I like the underdog that is ranged combat. It would also be nice if this one had a similar damage proc like the red armor from VoN(Eternal Fire, except acid based).




Just for a comparison:
VoN Red Armor - (ML: 20) +8, 6 different effects, 2 slots
Cormyrian Red/Green Armors - (ML: 23) +9, 6 different effects, no slots
GH Black/Blue/White Armors - (ML: 25) +7, 4 different effects, 1 set bonus effect(requires second item), 1 slot

That comparison right there just doesn't add up...
If nothing else, give them another +1 and another effect, to be on par with the existing epic dragonscale armors.

[voodoogroves]

Love it if the white had freezing ice or freezing ice guard; thinking of the dragon fight in Tor.

Blue needs something else.

[muny21]

The blue scale armor is definitely something I would be skipping if it goes live as is. Just not worth giving up the spidersilk robe for one extra spell pen and 15 spell power, when worn together with helm. My suggestion for the blue armor:

1. Add major lore, or even superior lore would not be overpowered. If you think about it, sorcs only use two major lines of spells and usually carry two superior lore max spell power for that school on two scepters. For example, I have one air/water sorc and one water/air sorc and both carry a scepter of 120 glac/mag and superior ice/lightning lore. When a mob is immune to ice/electric just switch scepters and now have superior lore for whatever spell I am casting. Therefore, putting superior lore on an epic item just does not seem over powered to me, just a simpler way of have superior lore without having to swap gear.

2. Magnetism 130 instead of potency 80, it should be the most powerful electric source in game since the blue dragon is an electric dragon.

3. Can keep the greater spell pen IX, that is the only thing really worth it as is.

4. Evocation Augmentation IX, would say Arcane Augmentation IX but that might be a bit much.

5. The set bonus is ok with the 15 spell power. Could use a bump with % chance to Spell Critical and Critical Damage Multiplier for electric spells like TOD set. Give another option to slot that bonus.

6. Keep the blue slot.

All in all, I think the blue armor should be all about nuking power like the blue dragon and since it is an electric dragon should be the most powerful source for adding power to that spell school. Just like the green armor is suited towards the green dragon.

[Missing_Minds]

Feather,

By now I'm certain you've read all the reviews players have done with the armor, and I think I've got an idea of why you've selected what you have selected.

I'm going to go ahead and list out those thoughts, and if you are so inclined correct me please.

You've made them weaker than what players have been expecting because of the ease of getting the inital set. No favor requirements or anything. Just the scales.
You built in upgrades via slots.
You expect these slots to add a lot of ability/power to the armor for players so they can build in what they really want.
You expect slots to be a gear game changer in so much we can have more of what we really like in regions unlike everyone wearing the same thing. Aka going back to the premise that no one item should be the defacto standard.
Not all augments are finished and once finished (in U18 maybe) more things will become very apparent for the decisions that were made.

But over all, what has confused me the most were the set bonus with the helms and the helms themselves.
(1st. Thank you for making set bonus with them. Even if I consider some very lackluster at the moment, I am glad for the option.)
Why the utter change away from the stat bonus that they used to have? Or is that an "oops"
I would suggest that in addition to the set bonus, but that the +3 insight stat bonus the helm offers, the set bonus bumps that up to a +5 insight stat bonus. (not stacking, obviously as only the highest value of the same name bonus applies)
As was pointed out once before, with the Blue helm, if it took a set bonus to get major arcane lore, why not a set bonus here to get major arcane lore just like the AM TOD belt/ring set?

Any how, the weekend is fast approaching. I hope you'll be able to enjoy one again soon.

[LVSammy]

I know many people have beat this to death, but i need to add my thoughts to it as well, so hopefully this tragedy does not go live. I have been looking forward to epic blue armor since i got my base set and thought, "wow, could you imagine this epic?!" Needless to say, I am VERY disappointed. Most people argue that the arcane lore should be major or even superior, but I can understand why it has not been made so (though i think it's a great idea that when you equip the set with the helm, you could easily upgrade it to at least major). The biggest problems that I have with it are that, 1) It is WAY too redundant, and 2) It has absolutely NOTHING to do with being from an electric based dragon (with the exception of the resist...)

Now first off, on this point, it must be obvious that pretty much EVERY ability on this "epic" robe is accounted for on multiple other items/sets that make up the majority of end game gear used today. Specifically the thing that gets me is that this is, or rather should be, a damage focused armor. Primarily sorc based, but still really good for a wizzy/divine/other when they wanna dish out damage/evoc magic this should stay focused on that idea. Therefore, spell pen has no place on this armor. At first thought, i wanted to say that it should have greater arcane augmentation IX, however, after reading the previous posts, i LOVE the idea of even just evocation augmentation, tho there has yet to be precedent for it, it really speaks across the class lines. Either way, plz replace the spell pen with some sort of spell augmentation. Secondly, the potency is ridiculous. Plenty of other sources; please change to either 130+ electric or even better, +30 or more implement bonus. Neither of those options are overpowered, but are at least still useful, even if minimally. Want to also mention, that I love the idea of transform kinetic energy, or some other sort of spell cost saver like the 10% mana cost reduction or a mana regen proc is a GREAT idea. Lastly, I really would like to see electric absorbtion as well, if only as a flavor tie in, or something else to relate to being an electric dragonscale armor.

Well, there's my two cents... I REALLY hope we can make a difference here and that this armor doesnt go live this way, would be such a HUGE dissappointment compared to the otherwise amazing looking update.

[Lycurgus]

Although the blue armor seems lackluster in some regards, the set has some appeal for warforged AM wizards.

+3 insight on the helm opens up the trinket for litany. G spell pen on the armor makes up for losing the CitW set bonus. The blue dragon set + litany conjoined with the tablecloth cloak and Twilight seems like it would be an optimal gear layout for WF AMs.

[Dieterstrife]

That black dragon armor.

The only question I have now is very, very plainly simple.

The helm. What will be the stats on it. Because at this exact moment, I'm pleading and praying for one thing and one thing only.

+3 Insightful Wisdom.

[Candela90]

BLUE - pretty good but the bonus is not really usefull. Id raise the bonus of both to 40-50 alchemical spell power and made it +8 enhancement OR instead of raising spell power Id add 12% crit for having set helm + armor.

WHITE - while bonus is pretty good here it should be protection +8 , enh bonus +8 + some kind guard (desint? earthgrab?)

BLACK - +8 enh bonus as well. Id also add resistance +8 to it as its mainly for rangers and rogues and monks who would love to get better saves. And set bonus is just... meh :P. Make it 6% doublestrike and +2 artifact dmg to ranger AND melee. Or maybe fit resistance +8 in here as a part of set, cause grinding for both items to get +3% doublestrike on melee is a joke. Black itself is good armor but... with this set bonus its better to get armor with the same effects for relics - loosing only blue slot and 3% melee doublestrike and not having to grind XXX times and freeing helm spot for sth more usefull :P.

[Eighnuss]

Would it be too much to ask for the standard blue docent + composite plating to show a bit more blue scale and a bit less crappy docent? Compare robe vs composite plating docent:

http://ddowiki.com/images/Blue_Dragonscale_Docent_shown.jpghttp://ddowiki.com/images/Blue_Dragonscale_Robe_shown.jpg

Come on now, I shouldn't have to waste a feat on mithril body just to look cool.

[Feather_of_Sun]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

[SableShadow]

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Aw ... well, it's best to take some time when you can, else you end up opening Notepad++ to find 5G of ...


"All work and no play make Feather a dull boy."

http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Content/121015/News/1_mon/thumbs/121015shining1_300x206.jpg

And if you haven't got your health, you haven't got anything.

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/polls/198000/198281_1236281233696_full.jpg

[Viisari]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

I'll give 5/5 for these changes, especially the blue scale just got a whole lot more interesting.

[Lighti]

And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

[dejafu]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Feather, you don't get nearly enough credit. You've really stepped up to find ways to make loot better in ways that make sense (e.g. Caught in the Web raid loot), and I'm VERY happy you've decided to answer the request to bring in Major Arcane Lore on an item that definitely deserves it. The fact that you take holiday time to do this is something I plan to bring up every time somebody makes some offhand snotty comment about "lazy" loot design.

Big kudos!


And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

While I think useless is an exaggeration, I agree that white could use a little something-something. Maybe make the shield bonus also grant immunity to Magic Missiles like the Shield spell?

[Viisari]

And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

Man it's not useless for monks who want AC or twf/thf toons with sufficient AC :p

[LVSammy]

First off,


Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore



Thank you! It is so nice to see that we little people are actually heard AND listened to. Great job Feather.

However,


I'll give 5/5 for these changes, especially the blue scale just got a whole lot more interesting.

Agreed, but only 4/5. But I still think that the spell pen should be some sort of augmentation instead. I'm not asking for both, I just think there are so many other sources of spell pen out there, that we need more items with the augmentation version (and by the way, all aug abilities should be for arcane AND divine, it's just fair).

[Lighti]

Man it's not useless for monks who want AC or twf/thf toons with sufficient AC :p
And how many of those will choose white over Red? Why not make it stack so all charecters that want a Defensive benefit can use it. Makes no sense at all.

[DrunkenBuddha]

I gotta say that I'm grateful to FoS for listening to the community commentary. This type of interaction and response is quite helpful.

[4tonmantis]

I've got to say, I'm not accustomed to Devs who actually apply feedback in such a fast and effective manner (I test too many games from publishers who are less community involved I guess). The White armor is something I think I may have to put on my THF (possibly TWF as well) and if there's a way to slot Natural Armor 8 on it as well, it'll be the new armor of choice for my cleric as well (will let him switch to a qstaff instead of t-shield).

This really is nice and the blue is something I will have to look very closely at.

[murf201]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Kudos to you feather it's really appreciated that you took the time to implement these upgrades and to respond back to us !!

As many have posted before , I really wish you could get the chance to go over the ranged benefit of the black dragon set . The plus 2 to ranged dmg just isn't a decent number , We are lacking pretty greatly as it is ! That melee bonus on there is pretty tight !!!

Maybe something like a + 4 or + 5 wouldn't be op , Or maybe even add a ranged proc affect . Hey eternal acid I'm looking at you lol !!

Something please though , Throw an abused dog a bone !!!

[Dolphious]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

SNIP.

That's awesome, and thanks for doing that! :D

I still think white is underpowered, but I guess i just don't value AC that much compared to other defensive properties, and I have to grant that a total of +16 AC from effects (on top of a high base AC) is not trivial, despite the fact I would have preferred exceptional fort.

[Meat-Head]

I like em except white.


My 18/2 Pally DoS will be working towards some black it looks like. More interesting.


Perfect changes on Blue. Thank you!



Idea for White: Some kind of STACKING shield bonus (even if it's low) AND/OR Stacking Intim bonus. It's about time an item besides claw gloves got exceptional intim.

[oradafu]

That's awesome, and thanks for doing that! :D

I still think white is underpowered, but I guess i just don't value AC that much compared to other defensive properties, and I have to grant that a total of +16 AC from effects (on top of a high base AC) is not trivial, despite the fact I would have preferred exceptional fort.

Pretty much this. With the exceptional fort, White Dragonscale would seem like the ideal go to armor for capped Arti and Druid pets. Instead, it still looks like Livewood Core and Leaves of the Forest will respectively the armors for these pets.

[muny21]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore


So instead of fixing the armor you make it so we have to grind out 12 more hero comms to upgrade it to tier 2 for the major lore? Good job! :rolleyes:

[shadereaper33]

And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

The problem is that if they made the shield bonus stack with a shield, they would need to reduce the amount of the bonus down to somewhere in the 1-3 point range. If they did this, it would become a less than significant change for everyone, regardless of what is in their off-hand. As is, it provides a very nice source of AC properties for TWF/THF characters that want to have some defense in their build, such as my monk. That said, I think it could use +10% exceptional fortification at base and +25% exceptional fortification at tier 2 upgrade.

[MeliCat]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Thanks Feather - it's excellent that this is there to work for.

However before I get too excited... upgrade 2... if this is anything like the PDK upgrades to weapons are we looking at 3 heroic comms for creation, 5 for tier 1 and 7 for tier 2? In which case we're looking at having to get 15 heroic comms? Just checking.


I suspect there will be a lot of people hanging around that end of GH or the Eveningstar cavern if this is the case :/

[Cetus]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.
thank you very much, major kudos to you for listening to our feedback =D

Just one point - white still feels on the weaker side even with the shield bonus, if you can add some exceptional fortification then it would be complete.

Now, is it within the realm of possibility to make that skybreaker feel more epic? Or am I missing something with regard to the lore description?

[Silverleafeon]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Thank you for the upgrades, I have always looked up to the dragonscale armor with hope and respect.
After all, their orgins are...

[maddmatt70]

And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

So since it does not benefit your build it benefits no builds because that is what your my-opic view expresses. This white armor is going to be great on my unarmed defensive monk build. It also starts to breath some life back into the virtually extinct two weapon fighting ac build. I was forced to throw a shield on my 18 paladin 2 monk because it just could not tank as a two weapon fighting build because ac and physical resistance are impossible to get to high levels on non shield builds. The blue slot augment with 14 prr and this armor gives me some hope that two weapon fighting tanks might make a comeback at least my unarmed monk build is getting there.

[maddmatt70]

\


idea for white: Some kind of stacking shield bonus (even if it's low) and/or stacking intim bonus. It's about time an item besides claw gloves got exceptional intim.

no!!!

[4tonmantis]

So since it does not benefit your build it benefits no builds because that is what your my-opic view expresses. This white armor is going to be great on my unarmed defensive monk build. It also starts to breath some life back into the virtually extinct two weapon fighting ac build. I was forced to throw a shield on my 18 paladin 2 monk because it just could not tank as a two weapon fighting build because ac and physical resistance are impossible to get to high levels on non shield builds. The blue slot augment with 14 prr and this armor gives me some hope that two weapon fighting tanks might make a comeback at least my unarmed monk build is getting there.

The difference between a +6 Planeforged Lootgen Tower Shield and the shield bonus on the white armor is a bit more than you might think. The shield bonus on Bastion is 19 if that helps.. and it isn't taking into consideration the matter of PRR.

I do agree that this is better than before and not useless (my THF is eyeballing it too), it is just not going to be a huge equalizer in SnB vs not SnB. You just can't beat a huge plank of wood for tanking :/

[Nospheratus]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Thank you Feather!

Did I understand correctly that you had to spend your off-work time to do this? It's quite sad this isn't part of the job... On the other hand, this is what makes this game great - the dedication and love of the devs for this game!
+1000 to you for such an effort! Really apreciated! Also, I really like the armors now... I'm now considering crafting 3, instead of 1 :D

[BruceTheHoon]

I do agree that this is better than before and not useless (my THF is eyeballing it too), it is just not going to be a huge equalizer in SnB vs not SnB. You just can't beat a huge plank of wood for tanking :/

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Otherwise we're back to where there's no point in going S&B and people labeling everyone, who pulls out a shield, a gimp.

[sirgog]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.



Thoughts:

Firstly, go grab yourself a beer.

Black - goes from decent to excellent for anyone with sneak attack or that uses high crit range weapons - basically everyone.

Blue - Major Arcane Lore was previously only available as a three-piece set (Rakhir's Ring, Rakhir's Belt and any of the many Greater Arcane Lore items in game). That said, it's still not very significant for the reasons I said earlier - Major Lore is not much of a spell DPS increase unless you have invested in crit enhancements in the relevant element.
If I wear this on any toon, it will be primarily for the set bonus and spell pen (and the three slots on the set), not the other effects.

White - Offers less protection against the things that actually kill characters (spiky elemental damage, melee criticals that penetrate 100% fortification) than other endgame armors. AC isn't useless, but it isn't as effective as elemental absorbs, exceptional fortification and PRR. This might be used for the set bonus but probably won't even with the higher AC.



Now the big question - what's the upgrade process? Is it Heroic Commendation intensive, or scale intensive? We're presently looking at a situation where ENORMOUS amounts of unneeded dragonscales will be in the economy, worse than large bones from Shroud, so I would suggest something like this (heavy on scales, light on comms):

Initial armor acquisition: 20 scales
First upgrade: 20 scales, 3 Comms
Second upgrade: 30 scales, 5 Comms

Remember that at present drop rates are ~10 times those of Don't Drink the Water AND eTor will be run by people chasing named items long after they have all the scales they want.

[Moltier]

I dont really care about the item stats (ok maybe the white could use some exceptional fort), but...
PLEASE dont use the Cormyrian dragon armor skins!
Or at least give us a choice in game between that and the old skins.

[Tid12]

Ah now we are thinking. Thanks Feather.

I might swap my Cormiryan green for that blue scale. And that black is looking sweet.

[Cade_Wells]

Any chance of the red dragon plate getting upgrades we well then? :)

[patang01]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Thank you for this. Now it feels like the armor and the helmet are on par with each others. And that we're indeed talking about high ML epic items.

[Lighti]

So since it does not benefit your build it benefits no builds because that is what your my-opic view expresses. This white armor is going to be great on my unarmed defensive monk build. It also starts to breath some life back into the virtually extinct two weapon fighting ac build. I was forced to throw a shield on my 18 paladin 2 monk because it just could not tank as a two weapon fighting build because ac and physical resistance are impossible to get to high levels on non shield builds. The blue slot augment with 14 prr and this armor gives me some hope that two weapon fighting tanks might make a comeback at least my unarmed monk build is getting there.

Yes it will be useful on a monk that wants to go for AC. One type of toon. Tempest Rangers wont gain much from it as they get shield of whirling steel. If it is changed to a smaller stacking bonus then ALL defensive toons gain. Even if it is changed to Exceptional fort it is useful for ALL defensive toons.

[Dexol]

Still missing Outfits... otherwise nice

[redspecter23]

I'm loving the upgrade, but I share the same concern about the white as others have. The numbers are great, but unfortunately they are AC numbers and AC just isn't what it was before. For epic norm - hard you can completely ignore AC and if you do bother with it, an average amount will help you significantly. For epic elite, those moderate numbers, while they may provide some benefit, are overshadowed by the 150+ damage coming in for each hit. You may be protected 5% more, but you're still killed in the same 4 - 5 hits. As you need to work on a complete defensive package, the relative value of AC goes down, especially as the total number goes up.

S+B tanks feel as though the shield bonus is wasted as they get much more from an actual shield, leaving this as a set that appears to appeal to monks and twf'ers, but in a world where AC is a small portion of your defense, giving up other amazing armors for such a small boost isn't viewed as ideal, even for a toon looking for great defense.

I think this armor could have been a smaller boost overall, but to multiple stacking areas. A high armor bonus combined with maybe 5% dodge, 10 stacking PRR and possibly a small stacking boost to threat gen could have made this a defensive armor of choice for a few builds I think. The stacking HP that the set provides round out the defensive package quite nicely. People looking for protection and natural armor bonuses are probably looking for ways to squeeze them into blue slots and the difference between +7 and +8 is very small when you start looking at a toon that is aiming for a high AC.

So while white is undoubtedly the best raw AC armor by the looks of it, the actual benefit of such a piece of gear is questionable because of the mechanics of the game currently and not necessarily because the numbers are on the gear are low for what they are aiming to do.

[voodoogroves]

Remember that at present drop rates are ~10 times those of Don't Drink the Water AND eTor will be run by people chasing named items long after they have all the scales they want.

Drop rates on Lam for these things tend to be adjusted up; I'd expect the scale rate to go down somewhat. Which sucks.

[Feather_of_Sun]

Drop rates on Lam for these things tend to be adjusted up; I'd expect the scale rate to go down somewhat. Which sucks.

It's staying the same. Per each dragon - 1 scale on ENormal, 1-2 on EHard, 2-3 on EElite.

[Ginarrbrik]

Nice changes! Very good to see.

[voodoogroves]

It's staying the same. Per each dragon - 1 scale on ENormal, 1-2 on EHard, 2-3 on EElite.

TY (again) for the response.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

I think the upgraded armors look great. Including the white. Those complaining about the white armor are all assuming it's meant to be tanking armor. While it can be used for that purpose if desired, I think it's more clearly aimed at throwing a bone to TWF who care about AC. I used to have a halfling exploiter build that was dex and AC based, and the AC changes with the expansion nerfed him into oblivion, forcing me to TR into something that wouldn't be a complete liability. An upgraded epic white dragonscale robe might have been enough for me to keep the character, and may be helpful to many of the other exploiters out there who have been shelved.

[Ginarrbrik]

I think the upgraded armors look great. Including the white. Those complaining about the white armor are all assuming it's meant to be tanking armor. While it can be used for that purpose if desired, I think it's more clearly aimed at throwing a bone to TWF who care about AC. I used to have a halfling exploiter build that was dex and AC based, and the AC changes with the expansion nerfed him into oblivion, forcing me to TR into something that wouldn't be a complete liability. An upgraded epic white dragonscale robe might have been enough for me to keep the character, and may be helpful to many of the other exploiters out there who have been shelved.

Agreed.

[Meat-Head]

no!!!


Someone afraid that new loot would invalidate old grind?

It would still be a viable slot since it has multiple things going for it. Would be nice if claw gave 7 str.. but I digress.

[Lighti]

An upgraded epic white dragonscale robe might have been enough for me to keep the character, and may be helpful to many of the other exploiters out there who have been shelved.

Shield of Whirling steel doesnt stack with Shield Bonus on the White.

[bloodnose13]

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.


my question is, what is the point of giveing this armor an shield replaceing effect? when i seen this shield effect on that armor for the first time, my first thought was that its an effect that means the armor is giveing more ac to the actual shield users. now im pretty dissapointed becouse it is completely meaningless when combined with shield. unless i dont know something......

my opinion of it is that it would be much better if that armor had a actual dr OR exceptional bonus to prr, but this effect seems completely useless for the ones that will probably use that armor.

[Meat-Head]

my question is, what is the point of giveing this armor an shield replaceing effect? when i seen this shield effect on that armor for the first time, my first thought was that its an effect that means the armor is giveing more ac to the actual shield users. now im pretty dissapointed becouse it is completely meaningless when combined with shield. unless i dont know something......

my opinion of it is that it would be much better if that armor had a actual dr OR exceptional bonus to prr, but this effect seems completely useless for the ones that will probably use that armor.



Nah, the truth is it's a way for TWF to get moderately decent ac. I think it benefits monk-based tanks most. It used to be the most you could get for "shield" ac was +4 from a wand. Now it will be 8. Armor bonus going to 11 is a net gain of 2 or so. Protection 8 is probably a gain of 1-2.

So, for unarmed tanks, this armor gives around 7-8 more AC than what was previously available. For S&B types, it gives like 1 AC more. Interestingly, monk-based tanks are also the ones who will stand to benefit most from the 50 HP set bonus too I would think.

In other words, S&B won't really use it unless they find the 50 HPS really attractive. I don't plan on using it on my 18/2 pally S&B tank. I might use Black though since it essentially increases dps and therefore threat while still being a good AC armor. Us S&Bers love our doublestrike.

[Meat-Head]

Shield of Whirling steel doesnt stack with Shield Bonus on the White.


This would be unfortunate. Hope they change that.

[Missing_Minds]

Wow there is a lot of complaints about the shield bonus.

+8 shield bonus.

The standard large sheild has a shield bonus of +2. With enchantment bonus it can get up to a +7 (that I know of), so you can get to a +9 shield bonus on a large shield, but that is going to use most of the "market place modifier bonus" that could have been used to wards other stuff.
Tower shield? +4 if I recall correctly.

So instead of saying it is useless, esp with AC changes, why not use a sheild that has some awesome stuff on it to help you, and still have a +8 shield bonus? This may be a much lower level sheild that while useful, you out grew. Suddenly you could use it again.

TWF, THF, archery, cross bow. Ordinarily you are not offered any shield. +more to your AC.

Tempests. This is the only group that may complain, but only if they rate like a Tempest III. Splashes, nope this armor is still much better than your lvl 6/12 ability.

Now. 2 more things.

DR: I would assume this armor would not help your blocking DR like an actual shield will. And lets face it, if you aren't using a shield often, chances are you are not blocking often either.

EDs: US: Legendary Shield Mastery: Will this be usable with the armor or even Tempest? I have no clue.

[Meat-Head]

Wow there is a lot of complaints about the shield bonus.

+8 shield bonus.

The standard large sheild has a shield bonus of +2. With enchantment bonus it can get up to a +7 (that I know of), so you can get to a +9 shield bonus on a large shield, but that is going to use most of the "market place modifier bonus" that could have been used to wards other stuff.
Tower shield? +4 if I recall correctly.

So instead of saying it is useless, esp with AC changes, why not use a sheild that has some awesome stuff on it to help you, and still have a +8 shield bonus? This may be a much lower level sheild that while useful, you out grew. Suddenly you could use it again.

TWF, THF, archery, cross bow. Ordinarily you are not offered any shield. +more to your AC.




Not sure exactly if I'm misunderstanding you, but I use a ML 23 tower shield atm and it provides about 20 AC before bonuses from destiny and stance.. So, 8 is like... lower and stuff.

[NytCrawlr]

I might use Black though since it essentially increases dps and therefore threat while still being a good AC armor. Us S&Bers love our doublestrike.

Yes, leaning towards black for my S&B too because of the doublestrike. Might change my tempest from black to white now.

[murf201]

Who thinks the ranged dmg on the blackscale just out right sux !!! ?

I know there ain't a whole lot of us left at endgame but still .

Tell me it ain't so feather , You really wanted to give us something nice but THE MANN!! caught you !!!

" haha you tried to be well rounded and i caught you !! " " Just give them the usual non epic version +2 dmg , ahahahhhahhahahahh "

Anyway ????

[Missing_Minds]

Not sure exactly if I'm misunderstanding you, but I use a ML 23 tower shield atm and it provides about 20 AC before bonuses from destiny and stance.. So, 8 is like... lower and stuff.

I'd say you are not misundersading me. I'd say I forgot about during the AC change, they also changed AC values of the different types of shields. Rather than just buckler/small/large/tower, they spread that out more, so you are correct.

I'm also not able to find on the wiki a listing of basic shields and their values. That is irritating.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Basic_shields

It has never been updated.


Who thinks the ranged dmg on the blackscale just out right sux !!! ?
Too little too late, murf. I called feather on that back when he originally changed around the heroic versions of the armor. You can kiss any ranged advantage and dual nature it had good-bye and never to return to it.

[teh_meh]

Speaking of the white armor, I don't care about the white armor.



Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore


Shiradi casters everywhere just messed their pants in a synchronized, harmonized fashion. The green scale is nice but the Toughness can be slotted elsewhere easily, so can the resistance +6. The Acid Absorb/Resistance is situational, meaning the only real loss is the Power Store and while nice...-10% SP cost is not a make or break deal...especially with SP pot availability.

Major Arcane Lore DESTROYS Power Store, especially for my main who's routinely proc'ing every element under the sun. Will be grinding the blue immediately accordingly.

ty!

[SableShadow]

I'm also not able to find on the wiki a listing of basic shields and their values. That is irritating.


This (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shields) wasn't it? (might be out of date ... )

[murf201]

Speaking of the white armor, I don't care about the white armor.



Shiradi casters everywhere just messed their pants in a synchronized, harmonized fashion. The green scale is nice but the Toughness can be slotted elsewhere easily, so can the resistance +6. The Acid Absorb/Resistance is situational, meaning the only real loss is the Power Store and while nice...-10% SP cost is not a make or break deal...especially with SP pot availability.

Major Arcane Lore DESTROYS Power Store, especially for my main who's routinely proc'ing every element under the sun. Will be grinding the blue immediately accordingly.

ty!

Man !! another reason for what i stated above lol . The blue scale makes a caster even more bamf in a shiradi stance then the black scale on a ranged char in shiradi stance .

[teh_meh]

Man !! another reason for what i stated above lol . The blue scale makes a caster even more bamf in a shiradi stance then the black scale on a ranged char in shiradi stance .

Maybe they can up the proc percentage for 'ranged' someday...to say 14% or even 21%, while leaving offensive spells @ 7%. But don't feel too bad, Shiradi is hardly the only example of one class cannibalizing the inate destiny of another class. Correct me if I'm wrong but something like 90% of all melee-capable builds end up in one particular destiny. <cough>

[murf201]

Maybe they can up the proc percentage for 'ranged' someday...to say 14% or even 21%, while leaving offensive spells @ 7%. But don't feel too bad, Shiradi is hardly the only example of one class cannibalizing the inate destiny of another class. Correct me if I'm wrong but something like 90% of all melee-capable builds end up in one particular destiny. <cough>

Lol really enjoyed your description of it !!

One day though !! Ahh i can't say it like that really , i really do appreciate most of feathers work .

It's just alot of us ranged people were waiting for the black scale to go epic one day and be pretty bamf for us .

I mean even though they changed the original version a while back i was still expecting some ranged implement to come bak on epic and now that it has im kinda wishing it was't there at all , cause now it's a slap in the face to us .

[Missing_Minds]

This (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shields) wasn't it? (might be out of date ... )

That looks more correct than what I could find. The really strange thing is I could have sworn I pulled that one up. "shields" not "basic_shields" and they were near identical.

*sigh* really wish I could install ccleaner here at work.

But that basic sheild page I found on the wiki is deff wrong at this stage in time.

[danotmano1998]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough. I've added in two upgrades for each of them.
Thank you for listening, and for the additional work. :D

[teh_meh]

It's just alot of us ranged people were waiting for the black scale to go epic one day and be pretty bamf for us .

this word. you keep using it. i've never seen it before. but i really like it. it's powerful and makes me laugh at the same time.

[ormsbygore]

Thank you Feather for the extra work you've put in. Dev feedback like this is well appreciated.


this word. you keep using it. i've never seen it before. but i really like it. it's powerful and makes me laugh at the same time.

BAMF = Bad A-- Mother F'er

^Which Feather is...

**(Upgrades on the helms to add Breath Weapons?...Please...j/k...kinda)

[Candela90]

Thanks for update :)
I like changes BUT:
blue will be must have for all casters- but thats not the point.

I see people complaining about ranged black scale side - well I see black scales as perfect rogues armor and thing the more melee things it have the better.

Id still add resistance to black and white, but I love changes :)
Tyvm for them :).

[nibel]

this word. you keep using it. i've never seen it before. but i really like it. it's powerful and makes me laugh at the same time.

Bamf is also the Marvel's onomatopeia for nightcrawler's teleport.

[artistx]

I also think the White Dragonscale Armor is lacking... the 7 extra total AC it grants means very little under the new system... I think it should grant DR or Spell Absorption... or better yet... Dodge 5! now that's epic!!

[Gratch]

Cleaned up the initial thread post a bit and added links to FoSun's responses.

[pandarider123]

im probably going to pick up that black armor for my rogue thats about it...I dont see any other armors at 25 matching -20% fortifcation on a rogues main form of dps..

[pandarider123]

I also think the White Dragonscale Armor is lacking... the 7 extra total AC it grants means very little under the new system... I think it should grant DR or Spell Absorption... or better yet... Dodge 5! now that's epic!!

i agree its hard to get exctied for new updates when half the stuf that comes out isnt all that great. i would rather them update there servers before any update..

[PogueMahon]

What I would like to see is the addition of half plate armors, so that tanks that use dex and dodge do not lose their bonuses using full plate. Currently i use a random gen +7 planesforged half plate and have a 10% dodge and 178 ac putting on full plate lowers me to 7% dodge and 168 ac. The ac part is not as important to me as losing the 3% dodge due to the max dex bonus cap that full plate heavy armor has. More viable options should be incorperated to allow for players to choose what armors can best fit their build.

EDIT: drop 4 ac off each reading there was a pally standing near me.

and for those that don't believe the AC:

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i478/Pogue_Mahon/PogueJrsAC_zps1cdda856.jpg

[kalaka]

What about the fact that White Hide is worse then +7 Celestial Chain of Omniscience even with the change. It is still 18 armor vs 19, and the higher max dex bonus is offset by Lithe or enhancements, if you are even a light armor wearing AC build with a Dex of 48 to begin with. The armor value is modified by stance, etc., while the dex bonus is not making that one difference even more important.

[JOTMON]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

On the overview looks good.
Black didnt really need improvement... but now looks very appealing
Blue.. needed the Major arcane upgrade.. looks decent would have liked to have seen conc-op as a Tier upgrade option as well.

White.. still lacking.. needs Dodge5% or even better add Omniscience...
http://ddowiki.com/page/Omniscience.
this would give it that... oh yeah do I go DPS Black/red and/or go defensive White.. give it the wow factor it needs.

[PogueMahon]

@Kalaka

I'm not sure of the differences in light armors but with heavy which I wear there is a major difference between half plate and full plate.

Half plates have a max dex bonus of 7ac whereas the full plate is only 2ac.
This in turn lowers cuts my dodge almost in half to 5% versus 9%.

I won't wear medium or lower armor because of prr and how it is related to the weight of the armor. With my current prr of 176 I can negate over 50% of incoming physical damage. Healers appreciate this with high heal amp :)

To me personally, my tank has to have high damage mitigation, heal amp, and threat generation.

My only reason for this suggestion is to create more options for players, so they do not have to pigeon hole themselves into one style of build.

[Raiderone]

I would like to see each armor have properties based on the Dragon type and not just pretend or made up properties.

Why does Blue Armor have Greater Arcane Lore over any of the other Dragon Armors?
Why not two different Color Dragon Armor types based on Martial or Mystical?

Give Blue Armor... Superior Lightening Lore, Sovereign Lightening Resistance (after Upgrades), 108 thru 120 Spell Power (upgrades), Lightening Strike (maybe after Upgrades) and maybe a Daze or stun. +2 Int or Cha if Mystical

Maybe Heightened Awareness, Stunning +10, +2 Dex if Martial

Give White Armor.. Superior Ice Lore, Sovereign Cold Resistance (upgrades), 108 to 120 spell power (upgrades), +2 Int or Cha if Mystical

Maybe Freezing Gale, Dodge Bonus, +2 Str if Martial

Give Black Armor ... Superior Acid Lore, Sovereign Acid Resistance (upgrades), 108 to 120 spell power (upgrades), +2 Int, Cha or Wis if Mystical...

Maybe Acid Blast, Melee Boost, +2 Con if Martial,

Just random thoughts!

[dejafu]

After the scale-dropping spree last night, I finally got to see the new armors' appearances.

They look exactly the same as the heroic counterparts.

This isn't surprising, and I'm not even terribly disappointed by it. But I have to say that the design's age definitely shows. The colors in particular are much more muted than the stuff in newer content. Black armor in particular looks more like a light coal color, white is kind of a dull pearl, and blue is just... well, blue.

Any chance to shine them up a bit? Keep the same general design, but give it a bit of (literal) luster? The red armor from Velah is a great example of keeping the same design but using an excellent color scheme. Go for a deeper blue and black and a more shiny/shimmering white, and these will look just a bit more epic :)

[UurlockYgmeov]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore


Thanks for listening Feather! Give Feather more Holiday / Vacation!!

[4tonmantis]

I haven't played a Druid high enough to have ever played with this but I capped last night and made my wolf a set of white dragonscale (medium), put it on him and got the exclamation mark around it as if he is not proficient with it. Figuring it was probably just too heavy, I downgraded to the white leathers.. same thing.. Also, the robe is incompatible.
I honestly don't know what this should and should not be doing or why it gives the yellow exclamation mark for the pet but this does not seem right. If I can get any kind of confirmation that this isn't WAI I'll drop a thread in the bug forum.