Fixing teleport - two tiers

[Bradik_Losdar]

I have been pondering a win-win scenario regarding an improvement to teleport.

Ideally this improvement would allow us to use the spell (or Dragonmark or item effect) as per PnP rules, letting us go to any memorized location. Unfortunately DDO is a computer game and giving every character it's own set of teleport locations would take up a great deal of storage space (much like storing all the code for an extra bank tab full of gear). So how do we change this?

Simple. Split Teleport into two tiers - Basic and Premium.

Basic Teleport is what we have now: a dev chosen list of fixed points around Stormreach available free with any teleport ability.

Premium Teleport would be available in the DDO Store, replacing the basic teleport window once purchased, and would allow a character the ability to chose individual teleport points (just like PnP rules) from any non-combat location. Like so:

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/brads_picts/Teleportwindow.jpg

The list would include 10 (20? 30?) empty slots to begin with. A player mearly clicks the "Add location" and the current spot he/she is standing at is added to the list using a generic tag. The "Remove location" button would remove any highlighted location off the list (like the Jorasco location shown above) freeing it up for a new location, thus keeping the list completely fluid. (The 'remove' button would be grayed out until a location is selected and the 'Add' button would gray out when the list was full). This list stays with each individual character regardless of medium used (spell, Dragonmark, or item). So someone with multiple characters with an ablity to teleport would have a separate, unique list for each character (with different lists for Teleport and Greater teleport).

If implemented, there probably should be one location automatically on everyone's initial teleport list (which can be replaced later using the remove/add buttons if the player so desires) so those folks that pick up a scroll of teleport for the first time ever (or teleport item) in a dungeon can use it if they need to. This initial location should be someplace that everyone in the game has been to already (like the middle of town on Korthos Island) keeping in the PnP spirit of teleporting only to a known locale.

Makes sense doesn't it? Someone in PnP must memorize the location he can teleport to - and in DDO terms the "Add" button simulates this just fine while giving much more flexablity to the person using the spell.

A Premium Teleport would be a positive thing for all involved. One, it gives us players a much better, individualized version of the spell. Two, it keeps us from having to beg for more teleport points all the time. Three, it would certainly save the devs a lot of work in the long run as new locations are added that we want to travel to (can anyone say Reaver's Refuge, the Inspired Quarter, Lordsmarch Plaza, etc, etc.). And four, and probably most importantly, it would generate revenue from the DDO Store, more than offseting the costs of the addtional data storage space. If priced right, it would actually generate a HUGE amount of money for DDO. I know I would certainly buy it for each of my characters!

So what do you say? Isn't it time we got a 'premium' option for teleport?

[rdasca]

/signed for custom teleport slots.

/not signed for store item.


I get where you are coming from, and this has been asked for repeatedly, but still making it a store item is not the answer.

[danotmano1998]

Unfortunately DDO is a computer game and giving every character it's own set of teleport locations would take up a great deal of storage space (much like storing all the code for an extra bank tab full of gear). So how do we change this?


I disagree. All it would be is coordinates.

Yes, I think having custom teleport locations available would be most excellent.
Just don't make it a DDO store item only.

[cdbd3rd]

... making it a store item is not the answer.


...
Just don't make it a DDO store item only.

Realistically, if we want any chance of them actually putting man-hours into implementing anything like this, they're gonna have to be able to expect some payback for those man-hours.


I really like the OP's idea. Well presented, too.

/Signed and /Propped.

[CaptainSpacePony]

What's next--disintigrate with a +5 DC, frost lance with an "extra lance", or Mass Heal with a reduced cool down?

More locations/options for teleport for ALL casters of the spells? Absolutely signed.
I do not like the idea of premium vs F2P spells. No thanks to premium and F2P versions.

[lame_name]

I have been pondering a win-win scenario regarding an improvement to teleport.

Ideally this improvement would allow us to use the spell (or Dragonmark or item effect) as per PnP rules, letting us go to any memorized location. Unfortunately DDO is a computer game and giving every character it's own set of teleport locations would take up a great deal of storage space (much like storing all the code for an extra bank tab full of gear). So how do we change this?

Simple. Split Teleport into two tiers - Basic and Premium.

Basic Teleport is what we have now: a dev chosen list of fixed points around Stormreach available free with any teleport ability.

Premium Teleport would be available in the DDO Store, replacing the basic teleport window once purchased, and would allow a character the ability to chose individual teleport points (just like PnP rules) from any non-combat location. Like so:

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/brads_picts/Teleportwindow.jpg

The list would include 10 (20? 30?) empty slots to begin with. A player mearly clicks the "Add location" and the current spot he/she is standing at is added to the list using a generic tag. The "Remove location" button would remove any highlighted location off the list (like the Jorasco location shown above) freeing it up for a new location, thus keeping the list completely fluid. (The 'remove' button would be grayed out until a location is selected and the 'Add' button would gray out when the list was full). This list stays with each individual character regardless of medium used (spell, Dragonmark, or item). So someone with multiple characters with an ablity to teleport would have a separate, unique list for each character (with different lists for Teleport and Greater teleport).

If implemented, there probably should be one location automatically on everyone's initial teleport list (which can be replaced later using the remove/add buttons if the player so desires) so those folks that pick up a scroll of teleport for the first time ever (or teleport item) in a dungeon can use it if they need to. This initial location should be someplace that everyone in the game has been to already (like the middle of town on Korthos Island) keeping in the PnP spirit of teleporting only to a known locale.

Makes sense doesn't it? Someone in PnP must memorize the location he can teleport to - and in DDO terms the "Add" button simulates this just fine while giving much more flexablity to the person using the spell.

A Premium Teleport would be a positive thing for all involved. One, it gives us players a much better, individualized version of the spell. Two, it keeps us from having to beg for more teleport points all the time. Three, it would certainly save the devs a lot of work in the long run as new locations are added that we want to travel to (can anyone say Reaver's Refuge, the Inspired Quarter, Lordsmarch Plaza, etc, etc.). And four, and probably most importantly, it would generate revenue from the DDO Store, more than offseting the costs of the addtional data storage space. If priced right, it would actually generate a HUGE amount of money for DDO. I know I would certainly buy it for each of my characters!

So what do you say? Isn't it time we got a 'premium' option for teleport?

Interesting idea, here are my thoughts:

1. Personally i would also add the ability to give each custom teleport slot a custom description of maybe 20-40 characters.

Storing a certain amount of custom teleport locations per character would only consume a really small amount of space. This is the output of the location comman within ddo "r1 lx1146 ly804 i209 ox55.08 oy97.77 oz247.87 h154.7". That's not much data to store. The space needed to store all that information would be somewhere between 1 and 15 GB (assuming 10 million toons, each having access to some sort of teleport ability and using every single custom slot).

2. There are some things to consider though.
- only be able to teleport to public areas (no quests, pre-quests, raids or wilderness areas) to prevent all kinds of glitching and exploiting (regarding xp, loot and similar farmable things).

- only be able to teleport to locations you have been PLUS some sort of check if you own the content (guest pass abuse would spring to mind) PLUS some sort of check if the area you are trying to teleport to is currently accessible (crystal cove style seasonal areas come to mind)

- it might also be of importance to restrict potential areas further to prevent repeated out-of-map glitching or to prevent that people can teleport directly to their airship (which afaik is already offered via a store item only)
- probably more that i didn't think of

3. You mentioned Greater Teleport which adds more stuff to consider if it also had a list of custom locations
- GT only works in non-public areas
- GT affects everyone around you (if they accept the teleport)
- this could lead to easy griefing (teleport into annoying or deadly areas like lava or whatever)

While i like this idea overall, there it might be really difficult to alter the current teleport spells / items to create a bug and exploit free version. It might be easier to create a new "item of something something" that has like 5 teleport slots or something. Possibly dropping from P2P content or to craft with rare ingredients or something. Possible upgradable in certain tiers like the silver flame necklace.

[DanteEnFuego]

I like it.

Teleport rods are my guilty pleasure... There, I admitted it... At least until UMD or other scrolling permits it.

/signed

[Asmodeus451]

i get the strangest feeling of deja vu reading this thread............

[Bradik_Losdar]

i get the strangest feeling of deja vu reading this thread............

Me too...

But since the other one disappeared under mysterious circumstances... (a good thing? Devs actually working on this already? :p), I thought I'd post a 'non-necro' update just to keep the idea on the front burner. :D

[Bradik_Losdar]

Responses in green below:


Interesting idea, here are my thoughts:

1. Personally i would also add the ability to give each custom teleport slot a custom description of maybe 20-40 characters.

This would be very cool!

Storing a certain amount of custom teleport locations per character would only consume a really small amount of space. This is the output of the location comman within ddo "r1 lx1146 ly804 i209 ox55.08 oy97.77 oz247.87 h154.7". That's not much data to store. The space needed to store all that information would be somewhere between 1 and 15 GB (assuming 10 million toons, each having access to some sort of teleport ability and using every single custom slot).

I agree. It should take very little space. But even so, it will add to the cost to correctly re-work the spell.

2. There are some things to consider though.
- only be able to teleport to public areas (no quests, pre-quests, raids or wilderness areas) to prevent all kinds of glitching and exploiting (regarding xp, loot and similar farmable things).

- only be able to teleport to locations you have been PLUS some sort of check if you own the content (guest pass abuse would spring to mind) PLUS some sort of check if the area you are trying to teleport to is currently accessible (crystal cove style seasonal areas come to mind)

- it might also be of importance to restrict potential areas further to prevent repeated out-of-map glitching or to prevent that people can teleport directly to their airship (which afaik is already offered via a store item only)
- probably more that i didn't think of

I agree with everything you said above. All this extra work is a major reason why Premium Teleport would have a DDO Store price tag on it. The only other spot I can think of that may be a problem would be getting to the Portable Hole Tavern for the first time. A small fee paid to a member of the Twelve to send you there would simply solve that problem. ;)

3. You mentioned Greater Teleport which adds more stuff to consider if it also had a list of custom locations
- GT only works in non-public areas
- GT affects everyone around you (if they accept the teleport)
- this could lead to easy griefing (teleport into annoying or deadly areas like lava or whatever)

While i like this idea overall, there it might be really difficult to alter the current teleport spells / items to create a bug and exploit free version.

Again - hence the cost in the DDO Store.

It might be easier to create a new "item of something something" that has like 5 teleport slots or something. Possibly dropping from P2P content or to craft with rare ingredients or something. Possible upgradable in certain tiers like the silver flame necklace.

If they can get the mechanics to work on an item, why not the spell as well?

[shadereaper33]

I like the idea of custom teleport locations, but the whole "store only" thing is a complete deal breaker for me. If the dev's were to propose something like this, it would come across as a blatant cash grab attempt, and greatly sour a lot of people to the concept. Now, if everyone got access to a few custom slots, and then had the option to purchase access to more of them, similar to how the character bank works, that I could support.

[lame_name]

If they can get the mechanics to work on an item, why not the spell as well?

Because it's probably easier to create a new spell / stick it onto a new item, instead of messing with the perfectly fine spells and creating bugs were none were before :)

Also, it wouldn't come off as some sort of obvious money grab if it was "just a bonus" from new content, or craftable with tiers or something^^

[fco-karatekid]

Happy medium then... 15 locations F2P, buy up to 15 more in groups of 5 each in store - functionality not significant P2w; but there's still the ability for revenue generation from the feature. Not at first, but I am betting over time, premies would wind up filling up all 30.

[cdbd3rd]

I like it.

Teleport rods are my guilty pleasure... There, I admitted it... At least until UMD or other scrolling permits it.

/signed


I didn't have the bug real bad - then I got a Royal Mask a couple weeks ago. Now I'm spoiled. :)

:cool:



...Now, if everyone got access to a few custom slots, and then had the option to purchase access to more of them, similar to how the character bank works, that I could support.
http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/cdbd3rd/cdemotes/yep.gif

Fair compromise - I'll shift my opinion accordingly.

[SardaofChaos]

What's next--disintigrate with a +5 DC, frost lance with an "extra lance", or Mass Heal with a reduced cool down?

More locations/options for teleport for ALL casters of the spells? Absolutely signed.
I do not like the idea of premium vs F2P spells. No thanks to premium and F2P versions.

What an absolutely idiotic comparison.

Teleport is a convenience spell; it has no practical purpose. Escaping a quest is not a practical purpose because of the xp penalty for re-entering as well as the need to walk all the way back to wherever in the quest you were.

The DDO store is primarily for convenience items. Enhanced Teleport would fit quite nicely. Whether or not I get it would depend on the price point, but I have nothing against it happening, except for the qualification that it should only allow public areas to be added as waypoints.

Now, this does not mean I believe that some areas currently inaccessible by Teleport should remain so unless people buy the upgraded version. I simply like the idea of being able to pay for the ability of teleporting exactly where I want to be in a particular ward, say right in front of the auctioneer in Deneith or maybe the Wizard Trainer instead of the steps in the Portable Hole. If the devs have a reason for leaving a particular area off the Teleport list other than "We haven't gotten to it yet" then it should remain inaccessible to Enhanced Teleport.

[bruener]

Teleport to Guild Ship........yes please!

/signed

also I dont care what they sell in the DDO store. It has yet to ruin my gaming experience.

[btolson]

There is no need to implement a store-only teleport or store-only teleport slots for them to realize a profit. Making teleport sufficiently more attractive would increase the sales of a store item that already exists: rods of teleport. If they aren't acting on suggestions for teleport, it's not because they can't see $$ in it, it's because they either don't want to do it or consider it a bottom priority.

[CaptainSpacePony]

What an absolutely idiotic comparison.


How about we just agree to disagree?

[Inouk]

/signed

100%. And I like the idea of limited locations with more purchasable in the store, nice compromise. So long as the price is reasonable I'm even okay with it all being purchased upgrade (say...200TP for upgrade w/10 locations, then 100 each for 5 more locations up to 30).

[SardaofChaos]

How about we just agree to disagree?

You realize saying this is the same as admitting you're wrong, when you haven't provided any reasoning beforehand? And no, the slippery slope is never a form of reasoning.


There is no need to implement a store-only teleport or store-only teleport slots for them to realize a profit. Making teleport sufficiently more attractive would increase the sales of a store item that already exists: rods of teleport. If they aren't acting on suggestions for teleport, it's not because they can't see $$ in it, it's because they either don't want to do it or consider it a bottom priority.

This is a very good point, but would be unlikely to include the ability to teleport to character-specified coordinates as I don't know that many people who went and bought the rod rather than farm up a Royal Guard Mask.

[arminius]

The only change I would want to see to it (besides Guild Ship, obviously, who wouldn't want that) it for it to actually be useful in quests as the creators of Dungeons and Dragons intended. If you're in Chains of Flame and there is a gnoll pounding you from 3 floors up, you should be able to target, teleport, and be on him. Everything else is just window dressing.

[rdasca]

To modify my stance:

/signed for a hybrid version, 5 free slots (or whatever) and add 5 per TP upgrade would be fine by me.

As for teleporting to guild ships, never going to happen, first they are not public places, and more importantly this would replace ship beacons from the store, so I do not see them getting rid of the reason for those.

[Bradik_Losdar]

The only change I would want to see to it (besides Guild Ship, obviously, who wouldn't want that) it for it to actually be useful in quests as the creators of Dungeons and Dragons intended. If you're in Chains of Flame and there is a gnoll pounding you from 3 floors up, you should be able to target, teleport, and be on him. Everything else is just window dressing.

Unfortunately, this ability of the spell will probably never be seen in DDO.

Just as with implementing the "Fly" spell, it would require changing some major dynamics in the game and reworking a majority of the quests to avoid exploits and shortcutting of objectives.