Can I get some 28-point build recommendations for a PURE TWF Spellsinger Bard?

[Foxhound3857]

I'm gonna start playing a Bard because I'm getting frustrated with my level 8 Rogue, not because it's a hard class or anything (I disarm traps and snipe with my repeater, Mechanic prestige), but because most pugs I get are stupid and don't let me disarm traps before running through them, then when they die they blame me (have you ever heard of WAITING for me to do my job before running ahead?). I heard that Bards can do a lot of things fairly well and are often loved in groups for buffs, backup heals, crowd control, and added DPS, so I thought I'd give one a try.

I'm looking for some 28-stat point build recommendations for a Bard that wants to be pure (no multiclassing), use TWF (shortswords), and Spellsinger prestige.

Is it a difficult class to play effectively, btw?

[evilgijoe]

its honestly not going to be easy to manage that with 28 points even with tomes.if you plan to use your spells to get a high dc you need a high cha,for twf you need 17 dex,and to do damage in melee youre going to need str.plus having a few point in con for the hp and fort saves and you are spread pretty thin.

[Ryiah]

Is it a difficult class to play effectively, btw?

Depends on how you built it. Want DPS? Warchanter. Want to focus on spells? Spellsinger. Want to focus on songs? Virtuoso. Not that you can't do all three to some extent, but being limited to 28-points will probably hurt a bit as you'll need four stats. Feat slots will also be limited as TWF eats up three more feats than THF. Your spells and songs are based on your Charisma, but your damage, outside of a few niche weapons, is going to be based on Strength. You'll want some Constitution for survival and TWF requires at least a 17 Dexterity (15 base and a +2 tome works).

My advice would be to pick up 32-point builds as well as consider not going pure. A lot of Bards will splash in classes like Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue. Barbarian is particularly good with Warchanter and the passive/active movement speed increases are nice. Fighter is great for extra feats. Both Fighter and Rogue also give access to Haste Boost for a very cheap (1 enhancement point) temporary DPS increase. Not to mention Rogue gives Evasion.

[Foxhound3857]

Depends on how you built it. Want DPS? Warchanter. Want to focus on spells? Spellsinger. Want to focus on songs? Virtuoso. Not that you can't do all three to some extent, but being limited to 28-points will probably hurt a bit as you'll need four stats. Feat slots will also be limited as TWF eats up three more feats than THF. Your spells and songs are based on your Charisma, but your damage, outside of a few niche weapons, is going to be based on Strength. You'll want some Constitution for survival and TWF requires at least a 17 Dexterity (15 base and a +2 tome works).

My advice would be to pick up 32-point builds as well as consider not going pure. A lot of Bards will splash in classes like Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue. Barbarian is particularly good with Warchanter and the passive/active movement speed increases are nice. Fighter is great for extra feats. Both Fighter and Rogue also give access to Haste Boost for a very cheap (1 enhancement point) temporary DPS increase. Not to mention Rogue gives Evasion.

Can I get by with a low strength if I go Spellsinger, such as 10? I was actually going to rely on elemental damage for my weapons, Fireburst/Pure Good and Iceburst/Pure Good, particularly, instead of high physical damage. I don't intend to actually do much DPS, just to be capable of killing something on my own if I need to. Mostly I'm going to be focused on heals and songs.

Here's one build I thought up:

10 Str, 15 dex (+2 tome), 14 con, 10 int, 10 wis, 15 cha, dump all 4th level points into Cha so it's 20 at lv20.

[Anihsod]

Spellsingers just don't do much damage. They don't have anything in their build to increase their damage .. aside from the small increase from buffs. Spellsingers in a group tend to buff, cc, then afk to go get coffee while the group kills the mobs, rinse and repeat. Now this is great if you just really LOVE coffee.. not so great if you like to do damage.

If you are frustrated on your rogue because groups keep facepulling traps .. you simply thank them for spotting the trap for you while you disarm it. Optionally you could pick up their stone and take it to a shrine or a lava pit. Have you considered changing over to assassin spec?

[Foxhound3857]

Spellsingers just don't do much damage. They don't have anything in their build to increase their damage .. aside from the small increase from buffs. Spellsingers in a group tend to buff, cc, then afk to go get coffee while the group kills the mobs, rinse and repeat. Now this is great if you just really LOVE coffee.. not so great if you like to do damage.

If you are frustrated on your rogue because groups keep facepulling traps .. you simply thank them for spotting the trap for you while you disarm it. Optionally you could pick up their stone and take it to a shrine or a lava pit. Have you considered changing over to assassin spec?

No. I actually do like sitting back and supporting the team while watching them kill stuff. I don't need my DPS to be high, just enough so that if I get attacked by something, I can kill it without having to call for assistance. And I think I can achieve that with elemental/pure good.

I like being a buffer/support and assisting the healer.

[Kareena]

do you have access to drow?

[Foxhound3857]

do you have access to drow?

I believe so, but I want to be Human for the feat bonus and skill bonus.

How would this build work?

Str: 12
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

[goodspeed]

Well one I wouldn't go twf. Feats are limited, if your going 32 point, stats are sure as hell limited. Go 2 handed. It will at least give you some dps while saving stats and feats. Although if your going pure and fatesinger forget about dmg.

You are the CC, the buffer, and maybe even the healer with a smidge of dmg. You could try LD but even then your just coming up short. Very short.

Now if you wanted dmg then it's warchanter 14/6 splash. Maybe some day it will be pure if they ever add on a worthwhile warchanter 3, but until then 6 lvs of fighter nets you a good bit alot more then the pure does. With that you head into LD with say a greataxe or an esos if ya have one, splash some stuff from fotw, and your right there wailing on stuff with the others, combat buffing, and running full throttle displaced and everything else.

[Kareena]

Deleted cause I'm not going to help someone who doesn't bother trying to learn anything about a class and then is rude once called out on it.


edit: before more people neg rep this post- I reported the insulting post and it was removed. So you are not seeing the whole story.

[Anihsod]

No. I actually do like sitting back and supporting the team while watching them kill stuff. I don't need my DPS to be high, just enough so that if I get attacked by something, I can kill it without having to call for assistance. And I think I can achieve that with elemental/pure good.

I like being a buffer/support and assisting the healer.

I like playing my support spellsinger bard also. I tried him as an arane archer for a bit .. don't much like the heavy investment in feats and such that took. My small friendly guild has one of the best spellsingers I know ( pahoehoe ). I currently use a Terror on him when I'm soloing

[Foxhound3857]

Is a little extra buff time really worth spending one of my precious feats (and increasing my SP costs) on Extend Spell? I like the other 7 feats and especially Empower Healing, but what else could I get instead of Extend Spell?

(no Power Attack either, the -tohit penalty makes it highly unappealing for me)

[Kareena]

Yes. People will want you much much more in their parties if you have extended haste and rage.

Wasting 3 feats by going twf instead of THF is okay but your quibbling about a BARD having EXTEND? wow....

dump gtwf if you want something else imo

[Foxhound3857]

Yes. People will want you much much more in their parties if you have extended haste and rage.

Wasting 3 feats by going twf instead of THF is okay but your quibbling about a BARD having EXTEND? wow....

dump gtwf if you want something else imo

Can pure Bards get Haste/Rage? Cause I'm not multiclassing. I want the 20 capstone.

[Anihsod]

Yes. People will want you much much more in their parties if you have extended haste and rage.

Wasting 3 feats by going twf instead of THF is okay but your quibbling about a BARD having EXTEND? wow....

dump gtwf if you want something else imo

wow .. bard's don't need extend. of the 5 spellsingers I play with regularly, none has extend. extend is useful for wizards .. less so for bards .. because bards have gotten the mana back thru songs so casting haste and rage twice as often isn't an issue..... wow.

[evilgijoe]

also,bards do not get echos of power.so carry wands to conserve sp.i recommend blur and cure type wands.theyre not the best but having wand and scroll mastery helps.some type of a ranged option for attacking is always good to have also.

[MindCake]

I believe so, but I want to be Human for the feat bonus and skill bonus.

How would this build work?

Str: 12
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

And which ability are you going to put level ups into?
It'd probably be better idea to either:
- focus on TWF, get more STR, level ups into STR, less CHA, give up some cc spells, take warchanter instead of spellsinger, maybe splash 2 levels of fighter for feats.
- focus on spells, drop DEX but raise CHA or STR, level ups into CHA, stay pure, spellsinger.

Check The Diva's Bard Love Guide (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275472).

[Kareena]

wow .. bard's don't need extend. of the 5 spellsingers I play with regularly, none has extend. extend is useful for wizards .. less so for bards .. because bards have gotten the mana back thru songs so casting haste and rage twice as often isn't an issue..... wow.

No I can understand why experienced spellsingers don't have it- I know a couple who don't. They need/want to carry stuff like SF:Enchant DC - building to be able to CC endgame is very feat and PL intensive. But someone who specifically is building to buff others and using most of their feats on melee stuffs should have extend. IMO anyway

They specifically said they were building so that others would want them in their party- well extended rage and haste usually makes most people very happy and thus be more likely to include this person.

I didn't realize that the OP had no idea what a bard was though, until late in the thread.

[Foxhound3857]

Are there any bard builds that revolve around ranged magic instead of melee? Like one that can buff, heal, CC, and still do spell damage but not have to do any melee?

[Foxhound3857]

Bump. Can a Spellsinger bard be viable with a staff/Sonic spells for DPS instead of melee? I took Sonic Blast at lv2...

[Tyrande]

I'm gonna start playing a Bard because I'm getting frustrated with my level 8 Rogue,[...]

Rogue or bard, you are going to get frustrated either way. The same people who did not wait for you to disarm traps may be the same people who hit your crowd controlled fascinated monsters and woke them up.



I'm looking for some 28-stat point build recommendations for a Bard that wants to be pure (no multiclassing), use TWF (shortswords), and Spellsinger prestige.

Is it a difficult class to play effectively, btw?

If you are just starting, I suggest you move away from Bard. It is a jack of all trades class and its much harder to build and play. You are better off playing a sorcerer... much more nuking power, and much more spell points. I don't want to say better crowd control, but most of bard's power coming from music (perform skill), and music is slower in the sense, and you don't get to kill the monsters before other people already killed them. Just look at the ratio of the population of bards on the servers, and talk with bard players, you can get a feel that Bard is not a popular player class.

If you have warforged or half-elf, roll a WF sorcerer or HE sorcerer; you'll be much happier.

[Foxhound3857]

Rogue or bard, you are going to get frustrated either way. The same people who did not wait for you to disarm traps may be the same people who hit your crowd controlled fascinated monsters and woke them up.



If you are just starting, I suggest you move away from Bard. It is a jack of all trades class and its much harder to build and play. You are better off playing a sorcerer... much more nuking power, and much more spell points. I don't want to say better crowd control, but most of bard's power coming from music (perform skill), and music is slower in the sense, and you don't get to kill the monsters before other people already killed them. Just look at the ratio of the population of bards on the servers, and talk with bard players, you can get a feel that Bard is not a popular player class.

If you have warforged or half-elf, roll a WF sorcerer or HE sorcerer; you'll be much happier.

I only play difficult classes. And I like generalists, not specialists.

So, are there any good bard builds that revolve around Sonic Blast or higher Sonic damage spells?

[MindCake]

Bump. Can a Spellsinger bard be viable with a staff/Sonic spells for DPS instead of melee? I took Sonic Blast at lv2...

Sonic Blast is quite a nice spell, my bard still uses it at level 14.
Some damage, a chance to stun, at 4SP it's a bargain.

[Ryiah]

I only play difficult classes. And I like generalists, not specialists.

No offense intended but you need to learn to crawl before you can walk. You wish to play difficult classes but your posts indicate you have very little understanding of the game's mechanics.

Wasting three feats for situational DPS is bad enough, but you're also burning a lot of points to get the necessary Dexterity despite only having access to 28-points. Also I don't care how much they've changed the combat mechanics, I don't believe your attacks with hit anything with a Strength of 10. So you will have purposely gimped your character to gain... well to be honest, absolutely nothing.

My first character was a Drow Bard. It dual-wielded Wounding of Puncturing rapiers. Or would have if they hadn't been "fixed" before I could get a pair. It had a base Charisma of 16. My awesome songs? Well the buff ones are always awesome, but the CC-related weren't. They stopped landing beyond level 12. Despite dying practically two or three times per run it eventually made it to cap. It was the most miserable build I have ever run and was not enjoyable in the slightest. It lasted long enough to get 32-point builds and was deleted.

[Kareena]

you CAN do a melee spell singer. But its difficult to do the things your asking for on a 28pt build.

I'm not sure why I am still trying to help you after you were rude to me and obviously not researching any of your information, but I do love bards and I really do hope you will be successful in your venture.

Below is a melee SS build. It is for a Two Handed Fighter- ie a great axe or great sword. Without a fighter splash or half elf dili: fighter- you will need to take the master's touch spell and use it to give yourself proficiency with your weapon. Its not to bad- you will need to apply it at the beginning of the quest and after you shrine is all. I don't believe beholders remove it either.

All level ups are in strength. I think this would be a stronger build as a virtuoso but made it SS as it was your preference. To do a Virt build you would need to swap Mental Toughness for SF:Perform or Negotiator. And adjust enhancements (http://ddowiki.com/page/Virtuoso).

I put skill points in Balance, Concentration, Jump, Perform and UMD- these IMO are important to max. Leftover points I put in haggle- as a new player the extra plat should help you out. If you choose to not go this direction I'd recommend either bluff or diplo as a way to shed aggro or splitting between Hide & MS to be sneaky sometimes.

Good Luck,
DJ


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 252
Spell Points: 1006
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)

Balance 3 22
Concentration 6 32
Haggle 7 26
Jump 7 29
Perform 7 27
Use Magic Device 7 31


Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV