How about selling a token to remove decay for your guild

[slarden]

I really hate decay and especially the fact that it's only an issue for small guilds under this new system.

Why don't you sell something, anything in the store so that a guild can turn off decay forever. I am sick of it and ready to cancel my VIP subscription over it.

I don't really feel that I should have to pay, but I'll do it to make it go away. I think Turbine should just get rid of it all together for the same reason we don't have character xp decay.

I guess this woudn't be "pay to win", it would be "pay to not lose".

Thank you

[Bogenbroom]

I think Turbine should just get rid of it all together for the same reason we don't have character xp decay.

I'd have to disagree with you on this, particularly in your analogy to character XP. Fame and its benefits are something that needs to be maintained. And yes, while there are groups whose notoriety has lingered through history, the influence of those organizations has not. For instance, just because the Spanish Inquisition is remembered, no one is going to give the slightest benefit to you if you claim to be an Inquisitor today.

Of course, you could make all sorts of arguments about how a character can lose abilities they have picked up, as XP is not a perfect analogy to life and more representative of an amalgamation of training types, but the basic concept is that once skills are obtained they are not lost, even if they could, in theory become rusty, you are never starting from zero. Arguments about ability deterioration aside.

While I dislike a lot of the aspects of guild leveling, I thing Renown decay is actually an excellent concept. I am not going to say modifications wouldn't help, but I think the concept is spot on.

[DocBenway]

I'd have to disagree with you on this, particularly in your analogy to character XP. Fame and its benefits are something that needs to be maintained. And yes, while there are groups whose notoriety has lingered through history, the influence of those organizations has not.

I have used the xp decay comparison myself, but the most apt is Favor. Do the Coin Lord ever say to you "What have you done for me lately?" In any single life, any single character never loses any notoriety or fame with any faction or group. Why should a group of players lose credit for what they have done as a group, with basically the same people that reward them and sing their praises individually?

That said, I wouldn't reward Turbine with a purchase to remove an artificially imposed roadblock.

[CaptainSpacePony]

I have used the xp decay comparison myself, but the most apt is Favor. Do the Coin Lord ever say to you "What have you done for me lately?" In any single life, any single character never loses any notoriety or fame with any faction or group. Why should a group of players lose credit for what they have done as a group, with basically the same people that reward them and sing their praises individually?


While agree that favor is closer to reknown than experience is, it is not the same. Once you have enough favor with a faction, you're "in". It's not a case of "What have you done for me lately?" You made it. Reknown (fame) on the other hand is VERY fleeting.

Oh in answer to the OP: no thanks. I'm sorry you don't care for decay. Nearly every 1-hit wonder in the history of entertainment either. I think decay is a very flavorful way to represent that. While I will conceed there is room to debate the math that should be used in the system, I really like what it is and what it does. (For the record, it's taken me 18 months to almost single handedly get my tiny guild to lvl 51.)

[Chaos000]

In store item to suspend renown gain and loss for 24 hours? I think that would be a great idea and worth considering.

Guilds that hit the renown cap could benefit by purchasing this item, and guilds having issues from decay can use it on days the decay is higher than renown could be gained.

Temporary stopgap (suspension of decay) I could see. A permanent removal on the other hand is a little unrealistic. If they set the price at the equivalent of 100 major guild renown potions or 1000 astral diamonds (so it could be theoretically abiet unrealistically earned in-game without spending a dime) and I have no opposition to this feature (permanent removal of decay) being available in the DDO store.

[DocBenway]

While agree that favor is closer to reknown than experience is, it is not the same. Once you have enough favor with a faction, you're "in". It's not a case of "What have you done for me lately?" You made it. Reknown (fame) on the other hand is VERY fleeting.

But when the Favor is with Free Agents, controllers of all the "Press" in Stormreach, who consider you a Hero of the People, they are not going to let 'the people' forget.

Sure the Coin Lords don't broadcast news, but people see you laughing it up with Amanatu or heading to the Plaza for the exclusive gala evening cause you're "in" with the Coin Lords, then people talk. Anyone sees you're "in" and must have done something to do that. This generates publicity (renown), good or bad, based on their opinion of the Coin Lords.

All that is trying to apply a logical reason for the system. When you get 5 renown for offing some random wolf with no witnesses, or get 15 renown because your Hezrou summon timed out and returned to its home plane, trying to apply logic falls apart.

[shadereaper33]

I really hate decay and especially the fact that it's only an issue for small guilds under this new system.

Why don't you sell something, anything in the store so that a guild can turn off decay forever. I am sick of it and ready to cancel my VIP subscription over it.

I don't really feel that I should have to pay, but I'll do it to make it go away. I think Turbine should just get rid of it all together for the same reason we don't have character xp decay.

I guess this woudn't be "pay to win", it would be "pay to not lose".

Thank you

The problem with your comparison of guild renown to character xp is that guild renown is the only source of advancement for a guild, where as character xp is one of many sources of advancement for a character. If guild renown decay is removed completely, then they may as well just remove guild levels entirely, give every guild access to the best guild ship, and all shrines permanently.

/not signed, in fact, /never, ever signed.

[Zorth]

I agree but not forever, but once per day. This works to keep the game alive!

One 24 hour token bought in the store is a means to keep the game flowing and not die. (lets face it, this game is forcing vip to free to play every day)! because in the long run free to play is much cheaper.

Per character only and per account only.

Which means even if we play other games we have to log in once per day to buy a token from the ddo store and it hurts no one and also encourages active guild members that care enough to log in to buy one.

which means something in the long run for this game and its precious ddo store which is more important than anything else!

I had to say it, and you know I am right!

[slarden]

I appreciate the opinions, but since the guild system was changed recently and decay is no longer a significant issue for large guilds, I do not think an option to remove it for those of us in small guilds is unreasonable.

Elixirs are pointless with the current decay mechanism - but I would buy something to eliminate decay, but not daily. It would need to be a permanent removal which would also make it worthwhile to buy elixirs again.

[Mastikator]

Without decay reaching guild level 100 would be a small feat not worthy of notice, similarly to how easy (unnoteworthy) it is to reach level 20 on a character. Very high guild level is proof of very active playing time, which in turn is evidence of player skill and knowledge of the game.

An item that permanently removes guild decay is overpowered, it'd be worse than a permanent +100% guild renown potion. If it's permanent it should only reduce decay slightly (some 20%).

[Dandonk]

Without decay reaching guild level 100 would be a small feat not worthy of notice, similarly to how easy (unnoteworthy) it is to reach level 20 on a character. Very high guild level is proof of very active playing time, which in turn is evidence of player skill and knowledge of the game.

But it's not like that anymore. After the renown change, any even semi-active guild of complete newbies will reach level 100 fairly quickly, comparatively speaking. While the dedicated active gamers in a small guild will still struggle to level.

[Mastikator]

Good point, they should change it back to the old system.

[Ballyspringer]

/emphatically not signed

Have to say as a leader of an 80+ guild I would absolutely not be in favor of a store option to cancel decay - if it was even for 24 hours that was limited to once a month use. And that being said I don't have a big guild (20 accounts). I think having items in the store that give that large of an impact in the game for something that is almost purely pride based is a horribly bad idea as it diminishes the accomplishments of people who truly earned what they have. Lets be honest it's not like you have to grind like crazy or all be uber players in your guild to get a solid ship with +2 shrines all around, it just takes time simply playing the game and being active. Decay is really not an issue for any active guild regardless of size until you get above those levels, and there is no real benefit beyond lvl 62 (for shrines) except for pride (yes I know plainscaller and the XP shrines, but if your willing to pay for a stop decay item you're probably willing to buy a gold seal one of them so again it's just pride to actually get the guild level).

On a side note since it was brought up in above posts I'm not a big fan of the decay changes put in place recently either. I get why they did it, and I really do like that they are trying to make ways for more casual players and people who play only 2-3 times a week to be included in guilds and not just be a burden to them, I think it's absolutely needed. The problem is I think I'm in the same boat as the devs, I just don't see a better system and trial by error may be the best way (and not a fan of many of the proposals out there in the forums either). I do think the old way was better than the new way.

[shadereaper33]

I appreciate the opinions, but since the guild system was changed recently and decay is no longer a significant issue for large guilds, I do not think an option to remove it for those of us in small guilds is unreasonable.

Elixirs are pointless with the current decay mechanism - but I would buy something to eliminate decay, but not daily. It would need to be a permanent removal which would also make it worthwhile to buy elixirs again.

So it seems your argument is based on the perspective that small guilds got shafted by the recent change to renown decay. I feel the need to point out that absolutely nothing has changed for small guilds at all with the change. The rate of decay for small guilds is exactly the same as it was before the change, as the rate of decay that was chosen is the lowest possible rate of decay under the old system. Also, keep in mind, the change to renown decay that they made is not the final version, but is merely just the first change that they intend to make.

[Dandonk]

So it seems your argument is based on the perspective that small guilds got shafted by the recent change to renown decay. I feel the need to point out that absolutely nothing has changed for small guilds at all with the change. The rate of decay for small guilds is exactly the same as it was before the change, as the rate of decay that was chosen is the lowest possible rate of decay under the old system. Also, keep in mind, the change to renown decay that they made is not the final version, but is merely just the first change that they intend to make.

1) Small guilds are relatively worse off than large guilds. This is a real issue.

2) Small guilds ARE worse off, even in absolute terms. The new and higher ransack mechanism his pretty hard from what I've seen.

[Chaos000]

1) Small guilds are relatively worse off than large guilds. This is a real issue.

2) Small guilds ARE worse off, even in absolute terms. The new and higher ransack mechanism hits pretty hard from what I've seen.

1) Smaller guilds are relatively worse off than larger guilds. When you do size comparisons in terms theoretically equitable "decay per player" (which brings the focus right back to making the retaining of not-as-active players count against the guild) there is no difference between 5 vs 50 and 50 vs 500.

2) The new and higher ransack mechanism would be a reason to support an in-game ddo item or mechanism to suspend decay temporarily. If the cost is in Astral diamonds which can be purchased in the DDO store I guess to me makes sense.

The cost of a year's worth of a VIP sub (~ $100 bucks?) for a 12 month suspension of guild decay I could support. There's a reoccuring cost involved for an in-game benefit to F2P players that will help to keep the game funded.

The cost of a permanent removal of decay should be higher but again I don't have any opposition to that. $300? I wouldn't pay it but I wouldn't cry over other players having the option of dumping their real life money for a virtual benefit.

[Ginarrbrik]

not another decay thread >.>

[gphysalis]

Here are some ideas

1) guild renown tomes (kind of like xp tomes, but for guild renown)

2) Ship buff for more guild renown (kind of like xp shrine)

3a) ddo store item that decreases your effective guild level by 10 for the purpose of renown
3b) ddo store item that gives your a guild a 10% decrease in renown loss

[slarden]

Here are some ideas

1) guild renown tomes (kind of like xp tomes, but for guild renown)

2) Ship buff for more guild renown (kind of like xp shrine)

3a) ddo store item that decreases your effective guild level by 10 for the purpose of renown
3b) ddo store item that gives your a guild a 10% decrease in renown loss

I will take what I can get - decay sucks - it feels even worse now that it's not applied fairly.

I will "pay to not lose". Thanks for the great ideas.

[Kinerd]

If guild renown decay is removed completely, then they may as well just remove guild levels entirely, give every guild access to the best guild ship, and all shrines permanently.That appears to be the way they're going.
1) Smaller guilds are relatively worse off than larger guilds. When you do size comparisons in terms theoretically equitable "decay per player" (which brings the focus right back to making the retaining of not-as-active players count against the guild) there is no difference between 5 vs 50 and 50 vs 500.This appears to be an unusual definition of decay per player. A 5 account guild has 20 * decay modifier over 5 players: 4 each. A 500 account guild has the same 20: .04 each. In the old system, the 5 account guild was the same 4 and the 500 account had 510 decay: 1.02 each. This, in addition to renown bonuses, made the stagnation points competitive: gain per decay for stagnation started at .125 for 1, up to 1.702 for 11, down to .833 for 50, up to .909 for 100 and approaching 1 at infinity. The ideal small guild was at most twice as well off as a large guild.

In the new system, gain per decay starts at .125, up to 1.785 for 11, up to 2.5 for 50, up to 5 for 100, approaching infinity at infinity. The large guild is up to three times as well off as the old ideal small guild.

And of course the massive advantage large guilds have in leveling before stagnation has only been exacerbated by this.

[Charononus]

Not signed, small guilds no longer can game the system is all that's happened.

[Tshober]

I'm sorry you don't care for decay. Nearly every 1-hit wonder in the history of entertainment either. I think decay is a very flavorful way to represent that. While I will conceed there is room to debate the math that should be used in the system, I really like what it is and what it does. (For the record, it's taken me 18 months to almost single handedly get my tiny guild to lvl 51.)

Will you feel the same when you have spent 18 months at the exact same level? That is when most people realize that it sucks.

[MRMechMan]

Even a small semi-active guild can hit 60-70.
Even a small, active guild can hit 70-80.
Getting to 85+ requires some work/time/dedication from the majority of the guild.

Getting to 100? Is it possible with a small guild? Uh, yes, people have gotten that high in solo guilds. An 8 man active guild is still a force to be reckoned with.


Considering 70 gets you MOST of the buffs, and 85+ gets you almost everything, why are people complaining? Because you want to hit 100? Why? Why does guild level matter so much to some people that they will pay RL money to get it higher?

I say no. Decay is fine. If you are upset with your guilds level because your guild is not active enough for your taste, change your guild, or change your guilds activity level. Simple....

Not with some magic potion from the store.

The change for renown didn't screw over small guilds...it just made it very very easy for large ones.

Even casual guilds get 80-90% of the benefits from guild buffs...which are not even needed to do ANY content.