So, is challenge exp fixed yet?

[inggold]

Saw some notes on it, but seemed to be only first time and stars being adjusted.... is the experience level fixed to be not abysmal yet?


How many months does it take to flip that lever back, anyhow...

[Dysmetria]

Saw some notes on it, but seemed to be only first time and stars being adjusted.... is the experience level fixed to be not abysmal yet?


How many months does it take to flip that lever back, anyhow...They are not flipping "that lever back" ever. They did increase the exp for second and after runs last update tho.

[inggold]

We were told that yes indeed it was going to be adjusted back up, and before year end.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4712492&postcount=27

:/

[Dysmetria]

We were told that yes indeed it was going to be adjusted back up, and before year end.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4712492&postcount=27

:/"Upward adjusting" is not the same thing as returning it back to the way it was.

It has been (slightly) upward adjusted, and more than a month before year end.

[MrkGrismer]

From what I understand it will never go back to the 'way it was'. As the 'way it was' was no the way it was intended. From what I understand they are re-working the formula.

But until a 23rd level challenge gives somewhat the same xp (or higher) compared to a 23rd level quest of the same length, the challenges are 'dead to me'.

(I use 23rd as an example, as it was the last setting I tried one on, after getting about 2k xp I decided to try to get a bauble instead, since I would be getting more xp from doing the level 19 quest), and it would take less time.)

[Isolani]

From what I understand it will never go back to the 'way it was'. As the 'way it was' was no the way it was intended. From what I understand they are re-working the formula.

But until a 23rd level challenge gives somewhat the same xp (or higher) compared to a 23rd level quest of the same length, the challenges are 'dead to me'.

(I use 23rd as an example, as it was the last setting I tried one on, after getting about 2k xp I decided to try to get a bauble instead, since I would be getting more xp from doing the level 19 quest), and it would take less time.)

I ran one challenge last life to see if the xp was much different after they upped it a little, the xp still sucks to the point that they aren't worth doing more than once. I don't even do them once anymore when I TR. I feel sorry for premiums that bought the cannith challenge pack, what a ripoff.

[Daemoneyes]

They are not flipping "that lever back" ever. They did increase the exp for second and after runs last update tho.

Only the Eveningstar Challenges did get back some first time xp.
So first time is ok but every run after it is not worth xp wise.

Cannith still sucks hard, not even first time worth

[cidchronic]

I have beed running epic time is money at lvl 23 for tokens and we are getting 7k per run. not bad for recompleting. plus they increased the supplly chest loot table


http://my.ddo.com/cidchronic/wp-content/blogs.dir/348976/files/my-gallery/screenshot00055.jpg

[Silverwren]

I soloed one of the Eveningstar challenges last night, Fight to the Finish. I got 9K XP the first time and 12K XP the second time. Not too shabby for a half hours work.

The Cannith challenges still don't give a lot, but do we run the challenges for the materials or the XP? Be honest. Most of us run them for the mats. I do at least. The XP is secondary. Personally I think the XP given is just right. I'm only in there for 10-20 minutes and I'm after mats, so why would I expect to see XP above 10K for it?

[Thrudh]

I soloed one of the Eveningstar challenges last night, Fight to the Finish. I got 9K XP the first time and 12K XP the second time. Not too shabby for a half hours work.

The Cannith challenges still don't give a lot, but do we run the challenges for the materials or the XP? Be honest. Most of us run them for the mats. I do at least. The XP is secondary. Personally I think the XP given is just right. I'm only in there for 10-20 minutes and I'm after mats, so why would I expect to see XP above 10K for it?

Yep, I think they are fairly well balanced now... Well, at least the short ones are...

[Therrias]

Saw some notes on it, but seemed to be only first time and stars being adjusted.... is the experience level fixed to be not abysmal yet?


How many months does it take to flip that lever back, anyhow...

Its better, but not amazing.

[Tiamas]

Is it better? Yes. But being shot in the leg once is better than twice too. XP on repetitions still completly sucks. 3.1k XP on a 5 star'ed lvl 18 cannith challenge anyone? (lvl 16 toon). Absolutely ridiculous. And loot is no reason to nerf XP. You could apply that to any quest. And please, dont say challenges aren't quests. As long as they are so far behind 95% of any quest in terms of XP I will still say the XP on repetitions sucks.

[Kinerd]

I soloed one of the Eveningstar challenges last night, Fight to the Finish. I got 9K XP the first time and 12K XP the second time. Not too shabby for a half hours work.

The Cannith challenges still don't give a lot, but do we run the challenges for the materials or the XP? Be honest. Most of us run them for the mats. I do at least. The XP is secondary. Personally I think the XP given is just right. I'm only in there for 10-20 minutes and I'm after mats, so why would I expect to see XP above 10K for it?The trouble is that they are not granting renown in chests, which is an important consideration and known NWAI. (We could also discuss the enormous price tag.)

Also, while you should be commended for being so charitable in your interpretation of Turbine's motives, I feel that being depicted as bumbling and whimsical is (sadly) closer to the truth. There's just no evidence that someone sits down and tries to balance content in that way. The House C quests are still abysmal XP, even after their loot has been largely outclassed by power creep.

[MrkGrismer]

I soloed one of the Eveningstar challenges last night, Fight to the Finish. I got 9K XP the first time and 12K XP the second time. Not too shabby for a half hours work.

How many stars you get on that one? Did you get the wizard's challenge?

[Bzzzt]

I have beed running epic time is money at lvl 23 for tokens and we are getting 7k per run. not bad for recompleting. plus they increased the supplly chest loot table


http://my.ddo.com/cidchronic/wp-content/blogs.dir/348976/files/my-gallery/screenshot00055.jpg

Quick! Hide the evidence before that gets patched for being "exploitable"!

[karsion]

Quick! Hide the evidence before that gets patched for being "exploitable"!

Have opened prolly about 100 challenge chests during the loot and epic xp days prolly about 2-30 since and did not get one upgrade, not even +2 to +3. So no, it's not exploitable.

[redspecter23]

I did a first run of Lava Caves at level 7 and earned just over 10k for a 5 star. Not horrible for a 20 minute run, but nowhere near what you can get elsewhere. Got 3500 for 20 minutes on the repeat run at 5 stars. I laughed so hard I cried. Some of the challenges aren't horrible xp now, but this one in particular stands out as a joke to me.

[Jasparion]

Saw some notes on it, but seemed to be only first time and stars being adjusted.... is the experience level fixed to be not abysmal yet?


How many months does it take to flip that lever back, anyhow...

I think its better if you can 5+ star it, but if you are a regular player and 2/3/4 stars is more your game then you are much better off finding the dungeons you can complete efficiently. You will get a lot more XP elsewhere.

Ive never understood why they dont just boost the base XP, then give a linear increase for each star. 5+ stars and you still get more than the 2/3/4 stars.

[Groucho48]

It's fairly easy for a good solo character to get 4-5 stars in the 10 minute Eveningstar challenge to protect the Great Tree. That's around 12000 exp and two chests at level 25.

[Silverwren]

How many stars you get on that one? Did you get the wizard's challenge?

Four on the 9K run, and five on the 12K run, and I got the wizards challenge both times, yes.


The trouble is that they are not granting renown in chests, which is an important consideration and known NWAI. (We could also discuss the enormous price tag.)

Also, while you should be commended for being so charitable in your interpretation of Turbine's motives, I feel that being depicted as bumbling and whimsical is (sadly) closer to the truth. There's just no evidence that someone sits down and tries to balance content in that way. The House C quests are still abysmal XP, even after their loot has been largely outclassed by power creep.

I disagree.


I found renown in the one chest I got for successfully completing the wizards challenge, both times. I also got renown in the chests for The Sunset Ritual and Defenseless.
I assume you mean the cost of the Challenge Pack. You don't have to pay for the pack to do challenges. I didn't.
While I agree that the XP for Cannith challenges is low, I ask again: Why are you expecting a great deal of XP for the 10-15 minutes you spend in there?
I don't agree with your assessment that the loot has been outclassed. There might be better stuff out there, and probably is, but I still find the things I've made to quite useful.

[EllisDee37]

Cannith challenges are still worthless for xp. Someone asked if we run challenges for xp or mts, and to be honest. Honestly, I used to run them for both; now I never run them other than for parts.


I soloed one of the Eveningstar challenges last night, Fight to the Finish. I got 9K XP the first time and 12K XP the second time. Not too shabby for a half hours work.22k for 30 minutes is incredibly shabby.


Personally I think the XP given is just right. I'm only in there for 10-20 minutes and I'm after mats, so why would I expect to see XP above 10K for it?Because 10k for 20 minutes is pathetic and sad.


I did a first run of Lava Caves at level 7 and earned just over 10k for a 5 star. Not horrible for a 20 minute run, but nowhere near what you can get elsewhere.Just over 10k for 20 minutes is indeed horrible.

You guys are aware that epic quests give 10k/minute, right? That's 200k in the time you can get 10k from challenges. It's a joke.

[MrkGrismer]

Four on the 9K run, and five on the 12K run, and I got the wizards challenge both times, yes.

Thanks for the info, I'll have to see if maybe I can hit more stars.




I assume you mean the cost of the Challenge Pack. You don't have to pay for the pack to do challenges. I didn't.



If I understand correctly, all challenges are free to VIP.

[DeafeningWhisper]

They fixed challenge exp the same way a vet fixes a dog...

Loot is still good thou.

[goodspeed]

I never run the cannith stuff anymore then needed. lol sure as hell didn't buy it either. It's cruel but I can only feel laughter for someone who actually did. Especially if they didn't wait for some hail mary 50% off deal.

Now eveningstar challange I did buy. I got some discount on er plus tp off, so I bought that to farm ingred's and scales. The average one I do is about 8.5 minutes long. And I usually farm lv 23 to 25. Higher if I have a group with me.

The xp is usually around 11 to 13k xp. Not to shabby for something you can run indefinitely, unlike the fast growing -100%xp quests I enjoyed running like the dust chain.

[Kinerd]

I did a first run of Lava Caves at level 7 and earned just over 10k for a 5 star. Not horrible for a 20 minute run, but nowhere near what you can get elsewhere. Got 3500 for 20 minutes on the repeat run at 5 stars. I laughed so hard I cried. Some of the challenges aren't horrible xp now, but this one in particular stands out as a joke to me.This is one of the most frustrating parts for me, although it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that no one in charge at Turbine understands the concept of XP/min, so at least that debate is settled.
I found renown in the one chest I got for successfully completing the wizards challenge, both times. I also got renown in the chests for The Sunset Ritual and Defenseless.I was referring to the Cannith challenges. The Eveningstar challenges use the traditional chest model and therefore provide renown. The Cannith do not and do not.
I assume you mean the cost of the Challenge Pack. You don't have to pay for the pack to do challenges. I didn't. While I agree that the XP for Cannith challenges is low, I ask again: Why are you expecting a great deal of XP for the 10-15 minutes you spend in there?I answer (again), because we get 0 renown out of the House C challenges and we paid through the nose for it. If you didn't, bully for you, but until they take it out of the store the price tag is an important point.
I don't agree with your assessment that the loot has been outclassed. There might be better stuff out there, and probably is, but I still find the things I've made to quite useful.What item from a house C quest are you using? Even if you do, it doesn't dismiss the logic because you agree that there is / might be better stuff. The House C quests are some of the worst XP and loot return in the game, ergo Turbine does not take XP and loot return into account when balancing content.

[DeafeningWhisper]

What item from a house C quest are you using?

Frozen Tunic is the best armor for Drunks in Winter Wolf form, the rest is pretty good as place holders or for specific roles (Elemental longbow for debuffing).

[Kinerd]

Yes, I use house C challenge items all the time. I even have three on my wizard. My question was house C quests, though.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yes, I use house C challenge items all the time. I even have three on my wizard. My question was house C quests, though.

Tinker set on my arty and Cannith boots of Propulsion on all my toons.

[doomteen007]

It's fairly easy for a good solo character to get 4-5 stars in the 10 minute Eveningstar challenge to protect the Great Tree. That's around 12000 exp and two chests at level 25.

12k xp for a 10 min challenge?? PLUS the time you are in there buffing and looting, you are looking at roughly 1k/min- when you need around 15,000,000 xp PER character for a 4/2/1 twist setup AFTER buying a +2 tome, thats not nearly enough xp (but even the best quest XP is barely good enough for the vast amount of grinding needed). Tack on to that that you'll spend 90% of the time leveling a destiny that does little to nothing for you, and you will be severely underpowered, therefore making 5 stars less attainable, this is ridiculous. You can get 5k-10k/min in quests that drop better loot, not a few materials for a bad lottery loot system. The challenges are sort of fun, a welcome diversion from grinding some quick epic quest into the ground, but it needs MUCH more XP per minute- it would need it's original formula to be roughly equal to quests. This is EPIC stuff, why is it giving XP that is matched by level 16 Vale quests?? Why are EE optionals giving 900 xp? This is ridiculous, you can see more than that at level 10.

The devs took something that was fun AND rewarding and said NO- you can have one or the other: challenges for some fun, or quests for some reward, but never TOO much fun, TOO much reward, and NEVER EVER both.

Recommendation- allow us to (at a ~-25% penalty?) level another destiny while still in the destiny we want, so we arent gimp, and can actually enjoy our characters leveling/playing. I feel bad for a group when I take my monk into a group as a magister, not a Grandmaster, knowing he's going to be relatively gimp, and able to contribute less, all in the name of getting a few more drops in the ocean of XP I need. Make me grind to cap? Sure. Grind for gear? Alright. Grind for destinies? If I must. Grind while gimp? F*** you.

[EllisDee37]

Yes, I use house C challenge items all the time. I even have three on my wizard. My question was house C quests, though.Not sure how the quests factor into it, but the house c sets are fantastic starter gear for new players.

Oh, and for the record, in terms of can't have both xp and loot and epic tokens in the same challenge, I just did a VON3 farm for an hour or so. 10k/minute xp, epic dungeon token fragments from the end chest, seals, scrolls, and more high level lootgen than you can shake a stick at.

Put challenge xp back to 3k/minute like it was. They will still be far outclassed by a VON3 farm in every way, but at least they become a passable alternative.

[Anihsod]

The challenges were obviously designed as a means to acquire parts to acquire gear. It's abundantly obvious that they were never intended as an easy mode exp grind.

"Is the exp challenge fixed yet?" ... Yes, the broken, giving way too much exp problem, got fixed.

[Circon]

Oh, and for the record, in terms of can't have both xp and loot and epic tokens in the same challenge, I just did a VON3 farm for an hour or so. 10k/minute xp, epic dungeon token fragments from the end chest, seals, scrolls, and more high level lootgen than you can shake a stick at.
10k/minute on that long thing? Seriously? I want to hear more about this. I count it a good day when I get 5k/minute on regular epics; 10k/minute is reserved for ******** 2 minute runs of Rusted Blades.

[redspecter23]

You guys are aware that epic quests give 10k/minute, right? That's 200k in the time you can get 10k from challenges. It's a joke.

To be fair, the run I was referencing was a lowbie level 7 run and probably can't be directly compared to epic xp farms. At the absolute best at level 7 you could pull in maybe 15k with a 30% pot running and all the other bonuses for 20 minutes which is still under the 1k per minute average that I like to keep while leveling. So, basically a first time run still isn't worth the effort, let alone subsequent runs which are worth 1/3rd of the xp IF you can maintain a 5 star average which on many challenges just isn't going to happen (Kobold Island anyone?). At level 7 I could be instead running STK part 3 on elite for, what, well over 10k first time with the same bonuses and repeat runs are still quite worth it.

If the xp is going to be so laughably low it's a joke, it should just be left out completely. It's insultingly low right now.

[redspecter23]

10k/minute on that long thing? Seriously? I want to hear more about this. I count it a good day when I get 5k/minute on regular epics; 10k/minute is reserved for ******** 2 minute runs of Rusted Blades.

10 minute runs aren't unheard of in epic VoN 3. A really tight group can be doing it even faster than that with all optionals. If you don't have any repeat penalties, the xp can be about 10k a minute without issue.

[EllisDee37]

10k/minute on that long thing? Seriously? I want to hear more about this. I count it a good day when I get 5k/minute on regular epics; 10k/minute is reserved for ******** 2 minute runs of Rusted Blades.We were flying through at 8 minutes per run, 80k xp including optionals.

Figure 2 minutes between runs (sell/repair, rebuff, that flagging part that isn't epic, etc...) and you're looking at a sustained 8k/minute.

And people still think 3k/minute from Buying Time was "broken, giving way too much exp problem."

[Isolani]

We were flying through at 8 minutes per run, 80k xp including optionals.

Figure 2 minutes between runs (sell/repair, rebuff, that flagging part that isn't epic, etc...) and you're looking at a sustained 8k/minute.

And people still think 3k/minute from Buying Time was "broken, giving way too much exp problem."

I think people were looking at the huge xp you could get from the first time star. Personally, I didn't even think the xp was out of line for the first stars considering the amount of xp required to max out a character now, 60-100k for a challenge is a drop in the ocean and you only got that much one time.

[luvirini]

The short challenges are basically "slightly bad xp", the long ones are "Horribly low xp"

[Silverwren]

22k for 30 minutes is incredibly shabby.


Because 10k for 20 minutes is pathetic and sad.


Just over 10k for 20 minutes is indeed horrible.

That's your opinion. Mine is that the challenges are nicely balanced as far as XP goes. Since you seem to feel that 22K isn't enough for 30 minutes work (which is the same as many quests, btw) what would you suggest they give?


You guys are aware that epic quests give 10k/minute, right? That's 200k in the time you can get 10k from challenges. It's a joke.

Hoorah for epiquests, but no one goes into an epiquest looking for crafting mats so why do you want to go into a challenge looking for XP? Each serves a purpose and the purpose of Cannith and Eveningstar challenges is to gather mats, not XP.

[Daemoneyes]

That's your opinion. Mine is that the challenges are nicely balanced as far as XP goes. Since you seem to feel that 22K isn't enough for 30 minutes work (which is the same as many quests, btw) what would you suggest they give?



Hoorah for epiquests, but no one goes into an epiquest looking for crafting mats so why do you want to go into a challenge looking for XP? Each serves a purpose and the purpose of Cannith and Eveningstar challenges is to gather mats, not XP.

Problem is that Challenges are time-based which makes the xp absolute horrible for players with a faster more efficient playing style.
(not only zergers worry about xp/min, my xp/min might not come anywhere near that of Mr.Cow but i am only flowersniffing in new Quests.)

So give us a slack, we did buy this stuff cause it was good xp/min and has nice loot.
Nerfing xp/min into nirvana is just a bad decision.
These Challenges should at least give 1k/min in heroic and 2k/min in Epic when 3 starred.

That "they give mats" argument is absolute invalid.
The normal quests also give loot, should there xp be now nerfed into oblivion?
Hey i can pull better stuff in the new Epics and those are even on eHard way easier then the Challenges, so should they now be reduced to 100xp/min?

Also some of the Challenges should be reduced in Time,
20minutes for a challenge where i made the main goal in 3minutes is ****.
And the Collector Challenges should have increased collect rates.


And last but not least:
I run those Challenges also for fun, i already have most of the stuff from there on my toons. So i expect at least decent xp/min, i payd for it so i want it.
(not that i would ever run the eveningstar ones more then 1time per life, bound to Char mats just sucks)

[Shade]

I have beed running epic time is money at lvl 23 for tokens and we are getting 7k per run. not bad for recompleting. plus they increased the supplly chest loot table


http://my.ddo.com/cidchronic/wp-content/blogs.dir/348976/files/my-gallery/screenshot00055.jpg

That doesn't indicate any increase to loot table.

House C challenges were always limited to lvl23 tables (even if you ran 25). And 23 was always enough for +3 tomes.

As of U16, +3 to +4 upgrade tomes have a 25% chance to drop anywhere +3 tomes previously dropped. An upgrade perhaps for some, but not challenge specific.

[EllisDee37]

That's your opinion. Mine is that the challenges are nicely balanced as far as XP goes. Since you seem to feel that 22K isn't enough for 30 minutes work (which is the same as many quests, btw) what would you suggest they give?22k for 30 minutes isn't remotely the same as ANY epic quest in the game. Every single one is much better xp/minute, and by a decent margin.


Hoorah for epiquests, but no one goes into an epiquest looking for crafting mats so why do you want to go into a challenge looking for XP? Each serves a purpose and the purpose of Cannith and Eveningstar challenges is to gather mats, not XP.Hoorah for you, but that's your opinion. Mine is that quests offer great loot AND xp AND epic tokens, so why can't challenges?

[Silverwren]

22k for 30 minutes isn't remotely the same as ANY epic quest in the game. Every single one is much better xp/minute, and by a decent margin.

I didn't say epiquests. I said most quests. I got around 20K the last time I did Beyond the Rift, for example, and that took FAR longer to complete than any challenge.


Hoorah for you, but that's your opinion. Mine is that quests offer great loot AND xp AND epic tokens, so why can't challenges?

That's not an opinion. It's a fact. Most people who run challenges are doing it for the mats. They want to create something. As to your question, because that's not what challenges are meant for, as I've stated already. If you want great loot AND xp AND epic tokens, go run epiquests. If you want to craft something by grinding out mats and get a little XP as a bonus, do challenges. As I've stated already, each serves a purpose depending on what you want to receive.



That "they give mats" argument is absolute invalid.
The normal quests also give loot, should there xp be now nerfed into oblivion?
Hey i can pull better stuff in the new Epics and those are even on eHard way easier then the Challenges, so should they now be reduced to 100xp/min?

It's not invalid. That's what the challenges are for. You can't use the loot from normal quests to create something else, so your argument is silly.

[Tiamas]

As to your question, because that's not what challenges are meant for, as I've stated already. If you want great loot AND xp AND epic tokens, go run epiquests. If you want to craft something by grinding out mats and get a little XP as a bonus, do challenges. As I've stated already, each serves a purpose depending on what you want to receive.

Its time for my favorite bible quote:
"On the 8th day, god decided that challenges should be only for loot. And so he nerfed the XP. And he saw, it was good"

Oh wait he didnt, neither did a dev. So your point is totally and only based on your opinion how something should be. Of course you can have that opinion, but you shouldn't expect other people to share it until its some kind of law of nature or a 'real' scientific fact. Fact is, challenges are adventures like any other in the game, call them raid, quest or whatever. Fact is, challenges have a timer, like some other quests too. Fact is, XP on repetitions in challenges sucks compared to other adventures. And thats pretty much about it.

PS: I'll keep posting that bible thingy until people realise, that basically only devs can say what stuff is meant for. No dev statement = no real proof of intended purpose.

[count_spicoli]

huh? people getting 22k first time eveningstar challenges. I got 65k on all eveingstar challenges on first run without xp pot. 10 minutes 5 star and easy cheesy. Ring of fire we didnt get the dragon down so only got 49k. Evingstar are defilnatlely worth doing once and they are fun too boot.

[Robai]

I have beed running epic time is money at lvl 23 for tokens and we are getting 7k per run. not bad for recompleting. plus they increased the supplly chest loot table


http://my.ddo.com/cidchronic/wp-content/blogs.dir/348976/files/my-gallery/screenshot00055.jpg

+1, thanks for sharing this info.
This makes house C challenges not so dead (still dead, but not THAT dead).

[Daemoneyes]

It's not invalid. That's what the challenges are for. You can't use the loot from normal quests to create something else, so your argument is silly.

Cannith Crafting, ever heard of this? looking at your still invalid comment i guess not.

Madness Chain Crafting Sora Kell Crafting etc
there are so much Quests that have better crafted gear or at least comparable Gear,
following your silly argument all those quests would have to be nerfed xp wise.

Also there is tons of "normal" loot that is even better then Cannith Crafted Gear.
Most famous and most wanted atm is Convalescent Bracer of Supirior Parrying.
But there are tons lesser stuff that is great, like that sweet +4 Riptide Collar of Lacerating i found today. Although i wish it was Handwraps.