Primal Avatar: First Impressions and Testings

[Nerveya]

(WARNING: THIS IS LONG. These were personal writeups for guildies/friends, but I got pressured to post them. I don't want to shorthand it. Deal with it)

I maxed out Primal Avatar within 4-5 hours of it going live and decided to test out everything as thoroughly as I could and see what's up.

So this is going to be a pretty thorough review of the Primal Avatar Epic Destiny. I'm going to do this in parts, mostly. Each part will be similar in format with few exceptions and will deal mostly with if they work, how they actually work, and if it's worthwhile to take them.

Sometime later I will go over useful strategies and tips regarding how to make the destiny work efficiently and get your most bang for the buck. But for now...

I'll start by going over the Autogrant Abilities:

-----Autogrant Abilities-----
Level 0
Strength of Spirit
Type: Passive/Toggle
Basic Description: On hitting with a melee attack, offensive spellcast, or buff, you gain 1 Spirit. You can only gain spirit from each source once per 3 seconds. Max 30 spirit and they decay 1 per 9 seconds. Toggle: +30 Universal Spell Power. Costs 1 Spirit to activate and 1 Spirit per 6 seconds to upkeep.

-Does it work?
Yes, but not as intended (in a good way)

-How's it actually work?
You gain 1 Spirit for every melee attack (On-hit only. Misses don't count) and on being hit (Not 100% confirmed, but pretty sure. It was seemingly random and hard to determine). You gain -2- spirit for every offensive spell cast or buff (self, self-centered aoe, or ally). You can toggle it and have it remain at 0 Spirit active. You will gain the buff immediately upon gaining Spirit.

Note: Aoe auras such as Cleric healing aura and Death Aura for Wizards give you 2 offensive Spirit every 3 seconds. Also, any aoe spell that requires a save or does damage will also give similar results if the tick delay is less than or equal to 3 seconds. These things makes it a joke to maintain max stacks even with the toggle on.

-Is it any good?
Aside from the passive (which is required for a lot of stuff), it's very easy to maintain and +30 Spell Power is really strong. Referring to the note above, it's very easy to maintain the Spell Power Buff if you don't have any of the other toggles active.

Level 1
Magic of Nature
Type: Passive
Basic Description: +50 sp per level of Primal Avatar. You gain ranger/druid casting levels equal to Primal Avatar level, but only if you have levels in those classes.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI, nothing hidden that I can find.

Level 2
Primal Travel
Type: Active
Basic Description: Activate to jump backwards a few steps. Costs 1 Spirit.

-Does it work?
Sorta.

-How's it actually work?
You tumble backward for 1 Spirit... woot.

-Is it any good?
Not very well. The distance covered by it is basically the same as a tumble backward and it doesn't work in quick succession (you lose Spirit without activation). It works while you're harried, so there's that. Haven't tested out if it works while chained, but that's really situational. If you can find a use for it, by all means. For all I've seen, it's pretty ****.

Level 3
Mighty Among Spirits
Type: Passive
Basic Description: +20 flat HP. Spirit decays every 15 seconds instead of 9.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI, nothing hidden I can find.

Level 4
Eternal Return
Type: Active
Basic Description: While below 50% health, you gain 12 HP and lose 1 Spirit and 4 SP every 2 seconds. Costs 1 Spirit to activate.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-How's it actually work?
It's as it reads: 12 HP every 2 seconds in exchange for 1 Spirit and 4 SP. It is NOT affected by Potency or Critical Chance. It is affected by Healing Amp (obviously).

Note: This works similarly to how Strength of Spirit works. You can toggle it and have it remain active even with 0 Spirit.

-Is it any good?
It's not bad. It turns off immediately upon getting above 50%, so it doesn't burn too many stacks. It can offset DOTs pretty well, actually. The HP regen will work even without SP, so it's pretty nifty even if you're dry. You'll want Healing Amp for it, though.

Level 5
Walk with the Spirits
Type: Active
Basic Description: Gain 25% incorporeal (non-stacking), invisibility, and ethereal to monsters, and gain +30 Hide and Move Silently. Costs 1 Spirit and 100 SP to activate, and 1 Spirit per second. It turns off when you run out of spirit.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-Is it any good?
Maybe. To be honest: it's expensive and impossible to upkeep. It doesn't last too long and the benefits aren't too good. You be the judge.


-----Purchasable Abilities-----
Level 0
Emphemeral Evolution
Type: Passive
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: When you take physical damage, you gain +1 PRR for 3 seconds. This stacks up to 5/10/15 times, up to once per second. Stacks fade away 1 at a time if you haven't taken damage.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-Is it any good?
Maybe. 15 PRR isn't shabby at all... but you need to get hit for it to persist. It's a decent tank and solo twist, I bet. But for on-the-back beaters, ranged, or spellcasters? Not an option.

Level 0
Rejuvenation Cocoon
Type: Active
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Yourself or ally gain a shield of 90/120/150 temporary HP for 9 seconds. Heals 5d6 HP every 2 seconds while the shield is active. Costs 12 sp. (Affected by Quicken, Enlarge, Empower Healing). Cooldown: 12 seconds.

-Does it work?
Hell yeah it does.

-Is it any good?
It's the best thing since anything, ever. I recommend this to anyone soloing, healing, off-tank dps, main dps, spellcasters, anyone but PMs. Then again, PMs should take it too. It's that amazing. WHY HAVEN'T YOU TWISTED THIS YET? (Edit: Obvious sarcasm intended)

Level 0
Insidious Spores
Type: Active
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Target takes 2d10 Poison and 2d10 Rust damage every 2 seconds for 18 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times. If the target takes damage, they become 'Contagious' for 5 minutes and spread the spores to nearby enemies when they die. Costs 30 sp. (Affected by Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Enlarge. No SR check.) Cooldown: 5 seconds.

-Does it work?
Not as Intended.

-How's it actually work?
The damage is fine. The mechanic is what needs work. Things that are contagious and die spread 2 debuffs: Spores and Venom. Spores is the 'Contagious' part and Venom is the damage component. When they die, they spread it to everything around themselves... including ALLIES. Heal removes the Venom, but not the Spores. If a 'Contagious' ally dies, they will still spread both debuffs.

-Is it any good?
God no. High SP cost (Seriously, 120 sp to get to 4 stacks?) for a 150-200 damage per tick DOT that isn't affected by Potency and has no Crit Chance available. It's awful. Really fun to kill halflings with, though. Someone get in shroud and see how many party members they can kill lol.

Level 0
Friends of Nature
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Choose 1 (cute as hell) forest friend upon PURCHASE: Bat, Bird, Fox, Frog, Squirrel. Each gives a unique buff to you and nearby allies:
Bat gives +10 Sonic Spellpower, +5 Sonic Resistance, +3 Listen.
Bird gives +1 Dodge, +3 Spot.
Fox gives +1 Sneak Attack Damage, +3 Move Silently.
Frog gives +2 PRR, +3 Jump.
Squirrel gives +2 Attack while flanking, +3 Hide.
Summoned (holy **** cute) friend of ze forest persists for 3 minutes. Cooldown: 3 minutes.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI, but with a catch or two.

-How's it actually work?
The buff is unique: multiple of the same animals do not stack. Also, the pet follows you around and makes noises, but will not follow you through a zone. It also dies after 3 minutes :( Sad face. It has 1000 base HP, but I didn't see it take any damage.

-Is it any good?
The radius of the buff is decent, but for 2 AP? It's a little costly for the bonus it gives. It's HELLA cute, though. It even makes sounds! ****ing adorable.

Level 0/1/2/3/4/5
STR or WIS
Type: Passive
Cost 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: If you don't know what this does, keep hitting your head with a wrench until you do.

Level 1
Seeking Balance
Type: Passive
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: You gain +(1/2/3) Reflex Save, +(2/4/6 Tumble), and +(2/4/6) Balance while Shapeshifted into an animal form, TWF, or unarmed. Primal bonus, need at least 1 level in each skill to get bonuses.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

Level 1
Supple as Spring
Type: Passive
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: You and nearby allies gain +3% Dodge if damaged by physical damage for 6 seconds.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI, but the wording is misleading.

-How's it actually work?
It gives an aoe buff of the same name to you and all nearby allies. If you're damaged, then you get 3% dodge for 6 seconds as stated. If they're damaged, they get 3% dodge for 6 seconds as stated. It does not stack, but renews.

-Is it any good?
Yes. It's one of the best things about this Destiny. However, it does not stack... so only one person per group should have it.

Level 1
Favored Enemy
Type: Passive
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Gain 1 Favored Enemy Feat of your choice: Aberration, Construct, or Undead. Possessing this enhancement also increases your damage to ALL OTHER Favored Enemies by +2.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI from what I can tell and others testing.

-Is it any good?
If you're ranger, go for it. If you're not... don't bother.

Level 1
Natural Shielding
Type: Passive
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Summons, Charms, Hirelings, and Pets gain +(30/60/100) HP and +(10/20/30 PRR). Natural Creatures gain (Nothing/Nothing/Evasion). (Natural Creatures include: Air/Earth/Fire/Water Elemental, Animal, Magical Beast, Plant, Vermin.)

-Does it work?
Difficult to test, but my (and others' conclusions) is it looks to me like it does. The HP definitely works. The PRR? Hard to say. Evasion? On eles it does... but their saves suck.

-Is it any good?
This is your choice lol. It's a prereq for Oncoming Storm (3% knockdown) so if you want that, this is pretty much required.

Level 2
Balanced Attacks
Type: Passive
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: You gain +(2/4/6) Primal bonus to Attack as long as you are shapeshifted in animal form, TWF, or unarmed. With Tier 3 gain: Vorpal Attacks knockdown enemies for 2 seconds.

-Does it work?
No. Only tier 1 works. Tier 2-3 are worthless.

-Is it any good?
You only need Tier 1 for the rest as a prereq. I guess we lucked out in that regard. As for tier 2-3, ofc not.

Level 2
Summer Smoke
Type: Active
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Toggle: You and nearby allies have a small chance to deal (5/10/15)d20 extra fire damage with melee, ranged, or offensive spells.

-Does it work?
Yes. Sorta. Read the next part.

-How's it actually work?
So far, I could only test it on melee. It's proc rate is ABSURDLY LOW. I tested out 10 instances of getting it and I got roughly 5-6 Charged Gauntlet procs before this ever showed. It's around 1-2% by initial numbers... and 2% is VERY generous. I didn't confirm ranged or spells... because I didn't have the patience to keep going. I stopped at around 200 each.

-Is it any good?
No.

Level 2
Tsunami
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Produces a wave that does 30 + (1d10 per character level) cold damage and 30 + (1d10 per character level) bludgeon damage. It also has a knockdown and Gust of Wind effect. Cold damage and knockdown are negated on fort save 10 + wis mod + character level. Some mobs are immune. Cost: 50 SP (Affected by Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Heighten, Enlarge). Cooldown: 7 seconds.

-Does it work?
Yep. But with added grief.

-How's it actually work?
Its damage is similar to the Ravager Proc. However, the Gust of Wind effect affects allies... Yeah, -15% move and attack speed for all!

-Is it any good?
Since it works on allies, it's purely solo material. The damage is alright (I was getting 800, 2300 crits), but it's expensive and the aoe is short.

Level 2
The Oncoming Storm
Type: Passive
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Attacks by Summoned and charmed pets, hirelings, and monsters gain a (1/2/3)% chance to knockdown enemies.

-Does it work?
My Earth ele was doing it. Second-hand accounts confirm it works with Arti and Druid pets. No word on hirelings.

-Is it any good?
Expensive for the points, up to you. 3% knockdown isn't terrible.

Level 3
Paired Parry / Symmetric Strikes
Type: Passive/Passive
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Choose one: +5 Primal bonus to AC or +5% Primal bonus to physical damage. Bonuses only apply if in animal form, TWF, or unarmed.

-Does it work?
Paired Parry works. Symmetric Strikes was a bit harder to test... but with 2,500 attacks, I can say that my numbers indicate that it does. (2,500 isn't much, but enough to give initial results).

-Is it any good?
5 AC? Meh. 5% physical damage? Hurray! If you're DPS in this destiny, this is a must.

Level 3
Autumn Harvest
Type: Passive
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: When nearby enemies die, there's a 5% chance for all party members nearby to receive (10/15/20)d10 positive healing. This isn't affected by spell power or metamagics.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-Is it any good?
Sorta. For the proc rate, it might be alright... but the aoe is tiny and it isn't affected by anything. Most quests don't even break the 200 Mob kill mark. 10 procs max for 100 avg healing per person if they're even around the kill? Up to you. I'd say take it only if you have to.

Level 3
Stormrage
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Activate to gain 10d20 lightning strikes, featherfall, and Deflect Arrows for 18 seconds. Lightning strikes up to 1 enemy every second with a reflex save of 50. Costs 50 sp (Affected by Quicken). Cooldown: 12 seconds.

-Does it work?
Yes and no. See next question.

-How's it actually work?
Potency seems to have no effect on it. It doesn't seem to work with any melee/ranged attacks. It does work for Spells, though. In fact, it works for ANY spell, even Disco Ball. That leads me to my next bit: If you cast a persisting AOE spell with Stormrage active, the Stormrage effect with persist throughout the ENTIRE DURATION of the spell even if Stormrage itself has run out. Hurray Stormrage Glitterdust!

-Is it any good?
Yes and no. It costs 50 SP, but you can get a lot of damage out of it. It's not affected by potency or metamagics, so it's damage is only around 100 avg... but it makes CC do damage for 50 SP. And a lot of damage. 100 damage per second? Pretty good... but it's random targetting. Your choice. I can see this spell and aoe CC being really good together.

Level 3
Summon Dryad Elder
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Summon useless ****ing yipping Dryad.

-Does it work?
As well as summoning a useless ****ing yipping Dryad that does no damage and barely heals can.

-How's it actually work?
She does no damage. Like... none. She doesn't have any metamagics or potency, so she only does base damage. She spams Call Lightning for 100 every few seconds and only has 2 healing spells: Regenerate for herself and Mass Cure Critical for others. Both of which do basically nothing and Cure Critical Wounds heals ENEMIES too. ***.

-Is it any good?
I guess if you have a yipping Dryad fetish, go for it.

Level 4
Chill of Winter
Type: Active
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Enemies that damage you or nearby allies with melee attacks have a 20% chance to become chilled, taking 1d20 cold and 1d20 rust damage every 2 seconds and slowing their attack and movespeed by (5/15/25)% for 20 seconds. This damage can stack up to 10 times.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-Is it any good?
Yes, but how many points you spend is up to you. The damage isn't very good... and doesn't scale off of any metas or potency. However, the slow goes off all day and night and 15-25% is a pretty big deal. It's a self-centered aoe buff like Supple as Spring, so yeah. Take that as you will.

Level 4
Sprit Boon (It's actually spelled like that in the Client... Typo or no?)
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Choose 1: Toggle: Gain +2 Primal bonus to STR/DEX/CON or INT/WIS/CHA. Consumes 1 Spirit to activate and 1 every 6 seconds. Stays toggled indefinitely unless turned off.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-Is it any good?
Absolutely. Well, you can only choose one... but it's a free +2 to 3 stats. You can maintain the stacks very easily even if you have other actives going. It's a joke to maintain if you're a caster and this is the only active you'll have to keep on if you're a melee, so no loss there. Like the other toggles, it stays active even at 0 Spirit and you instantly renew the buff once you obtain Spirit. I'd definitely use it.

Level 5
Nature's Fury / Natural Evasion
Type: Passive/Passive
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Choose 1: +1 Critical Damage mod on 19-20 or Evasion. These only work when in animal form, unarmed, or TWF.

-Does it work?
Yes. Both work as intended. I tested burst with a simple flaming burst dagger. Worked like a charm. Evasion confirmed by a halfling :D.

-Is it any good?
Probably. Takes at least 4 points to get, but the bonuses are really good if you're in the tree as a melee.

Level 5
Avatar of Nature
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description (ugh, it's a long one): Every 3 seconds you get +1 size, +2 STR, +2 CON, a ton of damage (at least 200) per size, and lose movespeed. You cannot jump or cast spells. These bonuses increase up to size 4.

Size 1+: +50 Size Bonus to PRR

Size 2+: When you attack, enemies become poisoned, taking 2d10 Poison damage every 2 seconds for several (around 6-8) seconds. This can stack up to 5 times.

Size 3+ Enemies attacking you have a chance to take 1d4 CON damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

Size 4: Your third attack while standing still knocks down enemies and deals extra AOE bludgeon damage.

This costs 1 Spirit every few (2-3) seconds per size you've gained. It turns off immediately once you've run out of spirit.

-Does it work?
Yes. Though the description and damage is vague.

-How's it actually work?
You visually cycle through the sizes like a bell curve: 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 3 -> 2 ->1 and so on, but keep buffs from each size even as you size down. Upkeep becomes insane at higher levels and doesn't seem to decrease as you cycle.

-Is it any good?
You actually visually change into a weird... tree thingy. The damage is ABSURD. Zeracia (my level 25 drow sorc) was critting over 1000 and she has like 30 avg base damage and a x2 crit mod. You take literally no damage from anything and have a ton of HP. Sadly, your attacks slow down a lot and animations are buggy and awkward. You can rage death, as well. It's absolutely impossible to maintain, as well. It's nice burst, but not consistent. It doesn't interrupt your attack animation, and you keep your buffs and boosts. I'd take it because you look cool :D

[Saravis]

Nice write up.

Its really sad that its so broken, but I guess that's par for the course for Turbine. :(

Anyway, it bears repeating and emphasizing, DO NOT GET CONTAGIOUS SPORES,
unless you enjoy griefing and making other players hate you. From what I hear it doesn't even poison enemies, just allies.

[Nerveya]

I've had it affect other enemies... though was it because of an enemy dying? Can't say lol. It might have been a dying ally x______x

Thankfully the damage can be cured through Heal/Panacea. And unless they killed a ton of enemies to get you 4 stacks... yeah. It won't tick too high.

[khangharu]

Do you know if the ones that work on "animal form, unarmed, or two-weapon fighting" apply to avatar of nature form?

Sounds like the avatar is bugged since the description really doesn't mention anything about going down sizes and distinctly says "+1 size". I'll have to test that one out though sounds really interesting.

Shame about the cocoon though, it was lasting 30 seconds until they stealth-nerfed it :(

[JustMe_ca]

Cool write-up

I can't wait to play with some of the features. I am tempted to get spores as a nice threat against bad behavior :D

[Vargouille]

Thanks for posting this detailed write-up. Some of the issues mentioned are new, some we thought we'd fixed since the last Lamannia update. All of the feedback is useful.

[eris2323]

Logged myself in solely to add rep. Thank you for taking the time.

[SensaiRyu]

Good job Nerv,

I have a good idea about what abilities I'll be getting.

Not that I don't believe the descriptions... ok, flat out, I don't trust them... I take it that animal form or unarmed or twf actually means I can use them in my monk's HElf form.

[Nerveya]

Ah yes, I tested purely TWF (2 dwarven axes and 2 clubs), some handwraps, and spells (Buffing and Offensive). These were purely initial results, but seemed to be consistent when I replicated the situation. Some were easy to test... take the enhancement and see if you get a buff. Others required a bit more finesse and a lot of getting beat on/beating on the dummy/enemies lol

I meant this mostly as a first-look, initial mechanic review. Take it in strides. I might do more adequate and rigorous testing in a bit, but I'll leave it to others and the devs for now to look into it. I was really curious, so I figured I'd post the results since people were asking.

[arminius]

Is Rejuvenation Coccoon really better than Healing Spring? It sounds like a lot of effort to keep up every twelve seconds.

And the one who could really use it, my barbarian, twists Sense Weakness, Tunnel Vision, and Brace for Impact, and none of those are replaceable even if there was a twist that gave spell points to consume.

On my ranger, there aren't a lot of spell points to spare to keep it going, and on my paladins there definitely aren't enough, because on EE they easily churn through all spell points to maintain Zeal and Divine Sacrifice. That leaves the casters, who can spare the SP but are self healing anyway. So I'm not sure who you are recommending for twisting it. Bards? Not rogues or monks or fighters, they don't have spell points. I dunno.

Thank you for the very thorough documentation, it was very, very well done.

[Gulain]

Level 5
Avatar of Nature
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description (ugh, it's a long one): Every 3 seconds you get +1 size, +2 STR, +2 CON, a ton of damage (at least 200) per size, and lose movespeed. You cannot jump or cast spells. These bonuses increase up to size 4.

Size 1+: +50 Size Bonus to PRR

Size 2+: When you attack, enemies become poisoned, taking 2d10 Poison damage every 2 seconds for several (around 6-8) seconds. This can stack up to 5 times.

Size 3+ Enemies attacking you have a chance to take 1d4 CON damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

Size 4: Your third attack while standing still knocks down enemies and deals extra AOE bludgeon damage.

This costs 1 Spirit every few (2-3) seconds per size you've gained. It turns off immediately once you've run out of spirit.

-Does it work?
Yes. Though the description and damage is vague.

-How's it actually work?
You cycle through the sizes like a bell curve: 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 3 -> 2 ->1 and so on. Upkeep becomes insane at higher levels and doesn't seem to decrease as you cycle.

-Is it any good?
You actually visually change into a weird... tree thingy. The damage is ABSURD. Zeracia (my level 25 drow sorc) was critting over 1000 and she has like 30 avg base damage and a x2 crit mod. You take literally no damage from anything and have a ton of HP. Sadly, your attacks slow down a lot and animations are buggy and awkward. You can rage death, as well. It's absolutely impossible to maintain, as well. It's nice burst, but not consistent. It doesn't interrupt your attack animation, and you keep your buffs and boosts. I'd take it because you look cool :D

Just wanted to ask what you tested this on? When I initially tested this on Lam i was severely disappointed on my druid for 2 reasons: 1) It knocks you out of whatever form you are in as a druid, thereby removing your form specific buffs and attacks. 2) It prevents spellcasting.

Did these 2 things make it to live? If so I can't really see any reason that a druid would take this ability as you lose out on so many other advantages just to take this one ability. Seeing as how all of the druid enhancements for their PRE more or less rely on forms or casting it is kind of counter productive.

I'll eventually test these when I cap the tree out but that will probably be a while yet....

[Nerveya]

Is Rejuvenation Coccoon really better than Healing Spring? It sounds like a lot of effort to keep up every twelve seconds.

And the one who could really use it, my barbarian, twists Sense Weakness, Tunnel Vision, and Brace for Impact, and none of those are replaceable even if there was a twist that gave spell points to consume.

On my ranger, there aren't a lot of spell points to spare to keep it going, and on my paladins there definitely aren't enough, because on EE they easily churn through all spell points to maintain Zeal and Divine Sacrifice. That leaves the casters, who can spare the SP but are self healing anyway. So I'm not sure who you are recommending for twisting it. Bards? Not rogues or monks or fighters, they don't have spell points. I dunno.

Thank you for the very thorough documentation, it was very, very well done.

Lol woops. It was mostly a personal writeup, so I was playing with words. A bit of joking and sarcasm is strewn around here and there.

Cocoon is very strong for anyone who has a slot for it and needs self-healing. It's much better than Healing Spring since you can cast it on anyone, but you require SP to do so. Anyone can glitch themselves to have base SP after the MOTU, so having 20 base SP on a level 20 fighter isn't unheard of. It also isn't limited to only one person in the party carrying it.

Also, SP is incredibly neglible whether you consistently cast it or you only use it as an 'oh ****!' healing spell. A Korthos Archivist's neck gives you 2-4 casts, a Ring of Spell Storing gives you 6, Vile Blasphemy gives around 8 per charge over time, etc... Unless you're using your SP constantly and inefficiently, or don't have clickies, you won't have trouble having the SP to cast this. Plus, echoes gives you enough for it lol.

I'd truly recommend it for sorcs, any healer who can spare it (in combination with Exalted Angel's Heal, this combo is very strong), and ANY kiter (EE LoB Kiter, EE Citw Mistress Tank, etc...). With 0 Healing Amp items, my sorc healed for around 150-200 in 8 seconds with a full shield duration of 150. Now imagine with healing amp. It's very powerful if you can manage it.

In the end, all twists come down to choice. It's up to you to make those choices.

[Nerveya]

Just wanted to ask what you tested this on? When I initially tested this on Lam i was severely disappointed on my druid for 2 reasons: 1) It knocks you out of whatever form you are in as a druid, thereby removing your form specific buffs and attacks. 2) It prevents spellcasting.

Did these 2 things make it to live? If so I can't really see any reason that a druid would take this ability as you lose out on so many other advantages just to take this one ability. Seeing as how all of the druid enhancements for their PRE more or less rely on forms or casting it is kind of counter productive.

I'll eventually test these when I cap the tree out but that will probably be a while yet....

I tested it in 3 situations:

The first was in Enorm DA where I was testing the Dryad piker. I would boost my stacks up to 30 and then turn on this form. I first wanted to figure out what it actually did... but it was apparent soon enough. I noticed the cycle at this point, but couldn't pinpoint why it went back down.

The second was sitting on the ship testing on the dummy. It was very difficult to test how much damage you got per tier since attack animations were so slow that sometimes a level was cycled through before I got an attack off. However, the PRR all seemed to work as intended. I also came to the conclusion that the bell-curve cycling is mostly visual. You keep benefits and upkeeps from tier to tier, but seem to get smaller as your spirit goes lower after hitting size 4. (note: edited my original post to reflect this. Results were old x.x It was late and I was lazy lol)

The third was back in enorm DA, but testing out lower stack counts and aoes. Persistent AOEs kept going after getting into form and gave you more spirit, but it still wasn't enough to maintain. I wanted to test out clickies, but couldn't get them to work. Sometimes they gave me the 'you are unable to cast spells', sometimes they went off with no benefit even after leaving form.

Finally, I don't know about druid form. I tested on a sorc. You cannot jump or cast spells, that's for sure. As for persistent, self-centered aoes? Energy Vortex was cancelled when I entered the form, but don't know about cleric aura or death aura. All this makes it impossible to maintain (a nice bit of balancing) for more than 20 seconds or so.

[Gulain]

I hadn't thought about radiant aura or energy vortex or the like. Kind of sucks that you lose those and I can't see a good reason that you would as they aren't form specific like body of sun is for druid.

It seems counterintuitive to me that a tree that is at least 50% caster oriented (probably more tbh) doesn't have any top tier abilities that are beneficial to casters. Developers might want to consider adding something in that top tier for spellpower focused characters to look forward to.

[psteen1]

Thank you for writing this and a +1 to you. It addresses the very issues I was curious about, which is what works and what is broken, what works with spell power and what doesn't. Overall, it seems like there is enough in the destiny to warrant a play-through on my druid, I think.

Though I still disagree with it's general hodgepodge mix as was expressed by the forum community during Lamannia.

[Nerveya]

I hadn't thought about radiant aura or energy vortex or the like. Kind of sucks that you lose those and I can't see a good reason that you would as they aren't form specific like body of sun is for druid.

It seems counterintuitive to me that a tree that is at least 50% caster oriented (probably more tbh) doesn't have any top tier abilities that are beneficial to casters. Developers might want to consider adding something in that top tier for spellpower focused characters to look forward to.

That might be an decent option. However... Here's my two cents:

Druid is basically a jack of all trades class. They can melee a bit, tank a bit, cast a bit, heal a bit, CC a bit, and buff a bit. This destiny enforces this role quite well. It has a lot of everything, but doesn't make you focus too much on one aspect. Is that for the best? Maybe, maybe not. I think that DDO really rewards class splits that can either do one thing the best or do a few things really well. But what about doing all things at an average level, but excelling in nothing? I think that hurts it.

What I would have like to have seen in this tree was a 'branch' system (for lack of a better name) such as having a melee branch, a healer branch, a casting branch, etc... These would all feed into eachother with prereqs and leave 1-2 slots open for random goodies that benefit all of them. I feel this would help a lot of the druid's innate problems with focus, but still enable them to be the all-rounder that they're designed to be.

[Nerveya]

Thank you for writing this and a +1 to you. It addresses the very issues I was curious about, which is what works and what is broken, what works with spell power and what doesn't. Overall, it seems like there is enough in the destiny to warrant a play-through on my druid, I think.

Though I still disagree with it's general hodgepodge mix as was expressed by the forum community during Lamannia.

Npnp, I hate double posting but I do prefer to thank people for rep lol.

I had a lot of interest and curiosity with this tree since I hadn't followed Lamannia at all. I came to the same conclusion with the hodgepodge mix of seemingly random things, but I think they were definitely trying out something new. If everything worked as intended, nothing would be necessarily bad (except probably insidious spores and the dryad), but not very good either. It has potential for making druid a very strong support class alongside bard, though. We'll see.

[khangharu]

Only thing that really bugs me about primal avatar (other than all the bugs :P) is that its epic moment form pretty much benefits from none of the most useful abilities of its tree. You can't cast cocoon or stormrage in it, in fact you can't cast..at all. From what I've heard none of the left-side bonuses apply to it since it's not an animal form (but yet to confirm) and I don't plan on twfing so this seems like an arbitrary restriction for something that's supposedly a jack of all trades destiny.

[maddmatt70]

That might be an decent option. However... Here's my two cents:

Druid is basically a jack of all trades class. They can melee a bit, tank a bit, cast a bit, heal a bit, CC a bit, and buff a bit. This destiny enforces this role quite well. It has a lot of everything, but doesn't make you focus too much on one aspect. Is that for the best? Maybe, maybe not. I think that DDO really rewards class splits that can either do one thing the best or do a few things really well. But what about doing all things at an average level, but excelling in nothing? I think that hurts it.

What I would have like to have seen in this tree was a 'branch' system (for lack of a better name) such as having a melee branch, a healer branch, a casting branch, etc... These would all feed into eachother with prereqs and leave 1-2 slots open for random goodies that benefit all of them. I feel this would help a lot of the druid's innate problems with focus, but still enable them to be the all-rounder that they're designed to be.

You can do different things with a druid in pnp but they are not really a jack of all trades class. In pnp you are a spell caster druid, a melee druid, a shapechanger druid, a summoner /animal companion druid, but if you try to do multiple of those in one characer you are a gimped druid. DDO is no different.

[Nerveya]

You can do different things with a druid in pnp but they are not really a jack of all trades class. In pnp you are a spell caster druid, a melee druid, a shapechanger druid, a summoner /animal companion druid, but if you try to do multiple of those in one characer you are a gimped druid. DDO is no different.

I'm going to go beyond my original post to support my claim here. So bear with the derail a bit. Just personal opinion, but Druids aren't very good if you focus on anything even in DDO. PnP is a totally different place than DDO. Completely and utterly different lol.

Caster? They do minimal damage even compared to the worst geared wizard in terms of damage and don't have the SP pool to support spamming spells to keep up. CC is minimal, but decent. Earthquake is pretty awesome. But that's it. The main problem is DCs and Spell Slots: You get very little inherent boost to any DCs and have a VERY limited number of useful spells. Will you do as much damage as a Wizard or Sorc double DOT'ing and using SLAs? Never in your wildest dreams. Will you be able to instakill or CC as well as a PM, Archmage, or Necro-Sorc? Nope again.

Healer? Decent healing potential, long durations, short cooldowns, but a lack of a repertoire of buffs and healing spells that go beyond spot or augment healing. Also, not enough sp to support constant healing. Will they heal as well as a Cleric or FvS? Never. Will they buff as strongly as a Bard? No. But they can get close with buffing using this Destiny.

Melee? Forms are lacking in the raw potential of any of the other melee classes. Forms give you nothing above and beyond any other class in terms of Tanking/Survivability, DPS, or Utility. Will they tank better than a Paladin or Fighter? No. Will they DPS better than a Rogue, Fighter, or Barbarian? No. With they be a utility-based tactician like a Fighter or Monk? Close, but not quite. They augment things with spells... and we're talking Forms here.

All-in-all, Druids excel is absolutely nothing. That is their strength. They can do many roles successfully. As many people have told me (and to which I agree), Druids are like duct tape. They fill in gaps left behind if other people are not up to par or not able to fulfill every duty. They support and can take on many roles that are left open, but you don't have the perfect build to suit it.

IMO, the only place in the entire game Druid is undeniably the best choice is in LoB. EE LoB kiter SCREAMS elemental druid kiter. Why? They can DPS, they can Heal, and they are immune to flesh to stone. Beyond that? Any other class can do so much more for a role they are designated in. Like I said before: PnP doesn't even correlate with DDO. The numbers far and above exceed anything PnP can handle.

----

That being said... this is why this tree is decent for Druids. As I stated above, this tree gives a lot of everything, but excels in nothing. This is what Druid was designed by the Devs for. Sad, but true. I personally love Druids... but you have to understand what you can do with a build. Druids are above all other classes in terms of flexibility and creative options. But you have to understand that there is a limit to what you can obtain with Druid by default. You have to pick 2-3 things to focus on because you will be undoubtedly out-shown if you only pick one. With new gear choices, enhancements, feats, and class splashes, you can be decent at many things and not suffer any loss in potential. That potential, however, will be less than a class built to specialize in it.

This Destiny will help you increase your overall effectiveness in those few areas you pick, but it will never make you king DPS, king Caster, king Healer, king CC'er, or king Anything. It will make you the best all-rounder DDO has had since the exploiter of old. And that... that's not something to be scoffed it. Embrace that flexibility, or you might as well roll another class to do the job better because Druid isn't built for that.

[maddmatt70]

I'm going to go beyond my original post to support my claim here. So bear with the derail a bit. Just personal opinion, but Druids aren't very good if you focus on anything even in DDO. PnP is a totally different place than DDO. Completely and utterly different lol.

Caster? They do minimal damage even compared to the worst geared wizard in terms of damage and don't have the SP pool to support spamming spells to keep up. CC is minimal, but decent. Earthquake is pretty awesome. But that's it. The main problem is DCs and Spell Slots: You get no inherent boost to any DCs and have a VERY limited number of useful spells. Will you do as much damage as a Wizard or Sorc double DOT'ing and using SLAs? Never in your wildest dreams. Will you be able to instakill or CC as well as a PM, Archmage, or Necro-Sorc? Nope again.

.

Druids have earthquake and solid spell dps especially in the draconic destiny with tsunami twist. Energy Burst from Draconic cost 20 spell points and with the elemental spell power a druid gets not much more needs to be said. You need to focus on your dcs for your earthquake dc and the elemental spell power and evocation dc or spell dps goes down which = gimped. Really the only good druids in game currently focus on offensive spell casting with some measure in healing. When they add more to the druid class presumably in the enhancement pass we will see what the melee capabilities are and if that detracts much from druid spellcasting, but any focus in melee currently drags down a druid's spellcasting abilities...

[Nerveya]

Druids have earthquake and solid spell dps especially in the draconic destiny with tsunami twist. Energy Burst from Draconic cost 20 spell points and with the elemental spell power a druid gets not much more needs to be said. You need to focus on your dcs for your earthquake dc and the elemental spell power and evocation dc or spell dps goes down which = gimped. Really the only good druids in game currently focus on offensive spell casting with some measure in healing. When they add more to the druid class presumably in the enhancement pass we will see what the melee capabilities are and if that detracts much from druid spellcasting, but any focus in melee currently drags down a druid's spellcasting abilities...

I'm looking forward to the enhancement rework/pass over. I want to see what they have in store for Druid. As it stands, the devs basically holed Druid into the corner with having to take many things from many places. They gave a lot of neat, unique abilities... but none of them are above and beyond anything else found in DDO. In the end, they turned out to be a viable alternative, nothing more. And that's kind of depressing.

Every class should be able to bring something unique and special to a situation that no other can. Whether it be a combination of things, or a single overarching theme, every other class in DDO can do that... Druid is relatively new and not yet refined. They're almost there, but not quite. We'll wait and see what Turbine has in store for them, but this Destiny definitely doesn't hurt them.

[goodoldxelos]

Tier 6
Nature's Fury / Natural Evasion
Type: Passive/Passive
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Choose 1: +1 Critical Damage mod on 19-20 or Evasion. These only work when in animal form, unarmed, or TWF.



I don't get this, how is this a tier 6 but the LD gets the same at tier 5. Make this expand crit multiplier on all crits...

[locus]

Thanks so much for the writeup. I'll definitely be trying out cocoon as a twist on my arti (shiradi, freeing up all those APs on healing spring would be good), but disappointed that so much of the destiny doesn't work with ranged.

On another note, I didn't even switch to Primal Avatar, just switch from Magister back to Shiradi once and managed to get the Supple as Spring passive stacked on my upper left corner (-did not even switch to Primal Avatar once-). I didn't test whether it was working, but definitely buggy.

edit: Bug with this ED: rejuvenation cocoon resets to tier 1 (+90 temp hp) if you disconnect from the game/client crashes and needs to be reset at the destiny trainer.

[Nerveya]

Thanks so much for the writeup. I'll definitely be trying out cocoon as a twist on my arti (shiradi, freeing up all those APs on healing spring would be good), but disappointed that so much of the destiny doesn't work with ranged.

On another note, I didn't even switch to Primal Avatar, just switch from Magister back to Shiradi once and managed to get the Supple as Spring passive stacked on my upper left corner (-did not even switch to Primal Avatar once-). I didn't test whether it was working, but definitely buggy.

edit: Bug with this ED: rejuvenation cocoon resets to tier 1 (+90 temp hp) if you disconnect from the game/client crashes and needs to be reset at the destiny trainer.

Hm. I will test these 2 out and add them to the writeup.

edit: Supple as Spring is an aoe buff granted to the user and whomever else is close by. It shows up on the buff bar. It was in the writeup. Are you sure this isn't what you were seeing?

edit2: I can confirm that logging out/DC'ing/Zone Crashing has no affect on the Twisted version of tier 3 Cocoon. However... I nearly lost my character cutting my internet connection to force an artificial DC, so I'm not going to try it again. If you want to know if this bug persists while in the active destiny, you'll have to test yourself. I'm not risking my toon again lol

edit3: Guildie just informed me that if you take tier 1 or tier 2 of Cocoon, you gain rank 1 Supple as Spring. Very odd.

[goodoldxelos]

Druids have earthquake and solid spell dps especially in the draconic destiny with tsunami twist. Energy Burst from Draconic cost 20 spell points and with the elemental spell power a druid gets not much more needs to be said. You need to focus on your dcs for your earthquake dc and the elemental spell power and evocation dc or spell dps goes down which = gimped. Really the only good druids in game currently focus on offensive spell casting with some measure in healing. When they add more to the druid class presumably in the enhancement pass we will see what the melee capabilities are and if that detracts much from druid spellcasting, but any focus in melee currently drags down a druid's spellcasting abilities...

I'm assuming your talking pure druids because my 9druid9monk 2 fighter can out dps most pure melees except a pure ESOS barb is currently slighty better in the current setup.

[Vargouille]

Balanced Attacks
...

-Does it work?
No. Only tier 1 works. Tier 2-3 are worthless.

We haven't been able to replicate this, and as far as we can tell it's working. There may be character specific issues. You should be seeing attack bonuses reflected in the extended inventory, as well as the knockdown on vorpals. We'd need more or more detailed bug reports (http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php) on this to know how widespread this is or what's wrong.

[maddmatt70]

I'm assuming your talking pure druids because my 9druid9monk 2 fighter can out dps most pure melees except a pure ESOS barb is currently slighty better in the current setup.

You should correct this to monk and not druid because without the monk in yeah your gimped. I do not exactly agree with your numbers especially compared to other monks, barbs and rogues, but yeah your viable as a monk multiclass.

[Xario]

I looked forward for the Tsunami spell and just learned it, but just now I am very disappointed. My Tsunami is bugged. Every enemy saved my Tsunami (my wisdom have +18 modifier), except one case (probably natural roll 1). This spell also has low speed, so it is easy for enemy to evade this spell complete, before it reaches its intended target. And as was mentioned earlier, is it hard for it to hit more enemies at once.


Insidious Spores as bugged as mentioned (you can gain disease from your own spell after enemy death) and is worthless for druid. Druid have very similar spell on 7th spell level (Creeping Doom) which do triple damage compared to non stacked Insidious Spores and is area (small, but area).

Rejuvenation Cocoon is very nice, but for druid? He already has several nice HoT spell with duration 9 second. Healing Spring from Shirady is much better for keeping my group, pets, or raid members healthy.

Friend of Nature for cost 2 destiny points??? You are kidding?? Probably yes. The same with so powerful epic destinies ability as Primal Travel - tumble back (very useful for people who can’t push back arrow key together with blocking key, or have not 1 rank in tumble) and Walk with Spirit - several second invisibility for cost 100 sp (I don't knew, that Ninja Spy I is so powerful, that their ability Shadow fade is almost equal maximum level destiny ability and 15 ki energy is equal 100 sp).

Ongoing Storm? My wolf should have trip DC 53 and is fully trained with Knock down enhacement, but he don't bother try to trip anybody. I wouldn’t need Ongoing Storm with its small proc, if my wolf did his work. But druid bugs are constantly overloocked.

[Glenalth]

Insidious Spores is currently the most efficient way of killing your own party. I love it.

I also think Insidious Spores + infected, nearly dead, druid pet is probably the best way to kill every lowbie in the Korthos public area.

[goodoldxelos]

You should correct this to monk and not druid because without the monk in yeah your gimped. I do not exactly agree with your numbers especially compared to other monks, barbs and rogues, but yeah your viable as a monk multiclass.

Last run on Monks came to the conclusion that it is actually quite low (which i was surprised), i haven't done rogues. Versus 0 fort mobs crit range and multiplier appear to be the most important factors.

[Diyon]

I need to get online and poke at this some.

I wasn't going to bother with the animal friends summon thing, but there's a fox there, and quite frankly, foxes are awesome, probably one of the few things I'd actually buy out of the DDO store as a cosmetic pet. So despite the low benefit, I'll probably get it just because.

[locus]

edit3: Guildie just informed me that if you take tier 1 or tier 2 of Cocoon, you gain rank 1 Supple as Spring. Very odd.
Jeez, yeah don't test it - that sounds dangerous :/ I had cut out in the middle of Big Top and reconnected inside an instance - that was the difference maybe? Full ranks of cocoon came back at the trainer, but not in town.

I've gotten supple as spring when I had fey form twisted (three times, seems random, but it's after using the ED trainer) three times, and have seen it once appear on me when I had other things twisted but t2 cocoon trained, yep. Had it proc in battle and everything. Nope, no one around me had supple as spring (was grouped with friend that was leveling shadowdancer).

Cocoon is pretty great on a human arti with healing amp, in shiradi (for duoing with non-WF at least). I wasn't going to give it a second look based on the description but primal got moved to the front of my ED leveling plans. Thanks!


edit: Also, strength of spirit is giving spirit gains on ranged hits (no spells used, not being hit, was gaining spirit but not at the rate of 3sec per spirit - maybe just on crits? maybe on crits if there are effects on the each bolt? at any rate, maintainable with pure ranged builds). Rune arm hits give 2. So, description is wrong. Huzzah!

[easterwhale]

Stormrage
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Activate to gain 10d20 lightning strikes, featherfall, and Deflect Arrows for 18 seconds. Lightning strikes up to 1 enemy every second with a reflex save of 50. Costs 50 sp (Affected by Quicken). Cooldown: 12 seconds.

the actual damage roll is definetely not 10d20, not even close.
so far my lowest and highest is 24 and 124(to ship dummy),most around 60, i can always roll between 80 to 120 with my real dice.:(

[Krelar]

Level 0
Friends of Nature
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Choose 1 forest friend upon PURCHASE: Bat, Bird, Fox, Frog, Squirrel. Each gives a unique buff to you and nearby allies:
Bat gives +10 Sonic Spellpower, +5 Sonic Resistance, +3 Listen.
Bird gives +1 Dodge, +3 Spot.
Fox gives +1 Sneak Attack Damage, +3 Move Silently.
Frog gives +2 PRR, +3 Jump.
Squirrel gives +2 Attack while flanking, +3 Hide.

I took the frog just for fun and found a bug with this one. The buff applies to everyone nearby. You can see it when you examine nearby enemies. Even tested by summoning it in the middle of a fight. I went from doing normal damage to yellow damage (from the +2PRR I can only assume). So only summon it if you don't mind your enemies getting the same boost. :rolleyes:

[Saravis]

Stormrage
Type: Active
Cost: 2 (Single Tier)
Basic Description: Activate to gain 10d20 lightning strikes, featherfall, and Deflect Arrows for 18 seconds. Lightning strikes up to 1 enemy every second with a reflex save of 50. Costs 50 sp (Affected by Quicken). Cooldown: 12 seconds.

the actual damage roll is definetely not 10d20, not even close.
so far my lowest and highest is 24 and 124(to ship dummy),most around 60, i can always roll between 80 to 120 with my real dice.:(

That sounds right, 10d20 would be 10-200 damage.
Personally I'd like to see the dice more weighted like 25d8 or 50d4, but whatever.

[easterwhale]

That sounds right, 10d20 would be 10-200 damage.
Personally I'd like to see the dice more weighted like 25d8 or 50d4, but whatever.

Yup , its in the range but way too low.
Here is my recently 55Hits result(halved dmg with "Reflex Save" not included):


13
13
14
15
16
16
18
25
31
32
33
37
38
39
41
41
42
43
46
46
47
48
51
58
59
60
62
63
63
63
64
64
66
69
70
71
72
72
73
73
74
76
77
80
83
84
85
87
90
90
90
94

10d20...?meh

[thegreatneil]

I took the frog just for fun and found a bug with this one. The buff applies to everyone nearby. You can see it when you examine nearby enemies. Even tested by summoning it in the middle of a fight. I went from doing normal damage to yellow damage (from the +2PRR I can only assume). So only summon it if you don't mind your enemies getting the same boost. :rolleyes:

This is bad. I tested the dryad to see her "healing". Aoe healing myself, herself, and the ENEMY all at once.
Between that and the spores issue, this isnt good. has anyone tested if the seasons affect enemies too?
I guess druids are truly neutral.

[oberon131313]

Level 4
Chill of Winter
Type: Active
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Enemies that damage you or nearby allies with melee attacks have a 20% chance to become chilled, taking 1d20 cold and 1d20 rust damage every 2 seconds and slowing their attack and movespeed by (5/15/25)% for 20 seconds. This damage can stack up to 10 times.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-Is it any good?
Yes, but how many points you spend is up to you. The damage isn't very good... and doesn't scale off of any metas or potency. However, the slow goes off all day and night and 15-25% is a pretty big deal. It's a self-centered aoe buff like Supple as Spring, so yeah. Take that as you will.

Chill of Winter is still bugged;
Chill of Winter can apply to enemies, meaning they get the buff and you can then kill yourself on it.

The steps to repro this:
Go into "Battle for Eveningstar"
kill the first sets of mobs, and head off to the right. Kill off the boss that spawns there, and then head towards the end fight of the map. When you come across the named priestess, run up to her and examine her. She will have the Chill of Winter buff. Attack her and you'll see that the slow applies to you, and you'll begin taking damage. Now toggle off Chill of Winter, and you'll see it that the buff disappears from her examine window.

This bug seems to only happen on mobs that are inactive and then become active. The workaround is to toggle your buff off and then on again any time you approach a new spawn.

[oberon131313]

We haven't been able to replicate this, and as far as we can tell it's working. There may be character specific issues. You should be seeing attack bonuses reflected in the extended inventory, as well as the knockdown on vorpals. We'd need more or more detailed bug reports (http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php) on this to know how widespread this is or what's wrong.

can confirm it's working on my halfling wolf-form druid. Roll a 20 with a confirmed crit and get a 2 second knockdown, no save.

[zealous]

Yup , its in the range but way too low.
Here is my recently 55Hits result(halved dmg with "Reflex Save" not included):

Adding my 50:


57 25 35 92 59 53 54 98 81 24 46 31 87 60 89 92 92 37 86 18 65 12 71 53 45
43 13 89 20 92 82 11 62 71 49 45 39 40 22 72 68 66 20 40 79 94 89 35 26 92





10d20...?meh
Most certainly not.

The mean correspond to what would could expected from 5d20. However, the spread is twice as high as expected.

10+d90, 9+d91 or something similar is my current guess.

Also, afaict stormrage does work just fine with melee(wraps/animal form/2h/2wf/1h/snb tested).

[zealous]

Summer smoke might possibly be bugged.

I noticed the dog loosing weapon procs and traced it back to summer smoke. This is similar to the bug for tunnel vision where suffixes will be lost.

In this case it could be a isolated case due to the dog using a pair of converted cormyrian wraps...the collar gains an extra set of effects when equipped.

[Nerveya]

We haven't been able to replicate this, and as far as we can tell it's working. There may be character specific issues. You should be seeing attack bonuses reflected in the extended inventory, as well as the knockdown on vorpals. We'd need more or more detailed bug reports (http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php) on this to know how widespread this is or what's wrong.

Level 20/5 Drow Sorc, TWF, 2 Flametouched Iron decon'd Dwarven Axes:

Tier 3: Extended Inventory said +2 to hit, not +6 (confirmed by the combat log as well). 341 Attacks, 26 vorpals (18 confirmed Crits), no knockdown. Quest? Elite DA.

Possible bug? Maybe only for people with no TWF feats? I'm not in form, but definitely TWF.

I will test more in depth and submit a bug ticket.

[Pilgrim1]

I thought I would chime in with my experiences from playing this destiny on a wisdom based druid. I have only leveled and played around with 3 of the abilities so far.

Cocoon: This is a great SLA and works really well. Not much to say about this except that for a heal amp toon this spell boarders on OP. But i guess that says more about heal amp then the spell.

Spoors: Contrary to what much of the other posters in the forms post I find this spell does good DPS, ~300-400 dmg a tick when fully stacked. This is comparable to one of the lvl 5 dots. My biggest concern is not the bugs, which i expect will be fixed, its the damage type. I assume that rust and poison where included in this spell to prevent it from being boosted to much by items and such. The problem is is that many monsters are immune to both of these damage types, including devils, demons, undead, elementals. I expect that this spell is designed to help compensate for one of the weakness druids have: namely lack of manna efficient damage vs large hp single targets (bosses). The problem is that most bosses are immune to this effect! I think (without testing) that of our higher level raids only LOB is not immune to this damage. Which still leaves druids trying to figure out a way to deal efficient damage to devils and demons.

tsunami: observations - I rarely ever see cold and bludgeoning damage, almost only bludgeoning damage. Targeting is horrible, i often times cant hit something right in front of me and hitting 2+ mobs is almost unheard off. The gust of wind effect is really irritating and limiting as it means that you cant use this spell in conjunction with almost any persistent aoe spell.

If a Dev reads this these are my suggestions:
Spoors: change the damage type to untyped or change the code so that fewer mobs are immune to poison.
Tsunami: remove gust of wind, change the attack type to a cone of cold effect, change the animation to a combination of cone of cold + bolder toss.

[Miluan]

Thank you for this write-up, Sir. +1 rep to you.


Level 0
Rejuvenation Cocoon
Type: Active
Cost: 1 per Tier (3 Tiers)
Basic Description: Yourself or ally gain a shield of 90/120/150 temporary HP for 9 seconds. Heals 5d6 HP every 2 seconds while the shield is active. Costs 12 sp. (Affected by Quicken, Enlarge, Empower Healing). Cooldown: 12 seconds.

-Does it work?
Hell yeah it does.

-Is it any good?
It's the best thing since anything, ever. I recommend this to anyone soloing, healing, off-tank dps, main dps, spellcasters, anyone but PMs. Then again, PMs should take it too. It's that amazing. WHY HAVEN'T YOU TWISTED THIS YET? (Edit: Obvious sarcasm intended)
Just wanted to say a few words about the cocoon ability. The description is somewhat incomplete. I think they should have added a line saying "Losing the temporary HP to incoming damage ends the healing portion of the spell prematurely" or something to that effect. I know that "while the shield is active" kinda covers that, but then again it's not clear if the shield ends after 9 seconds period, or when the temp HP is gone.

I'm saying that because initially, I thought Cocoon works for 9 seconds regardless of whether or not the temp HP is still there. The fact is, though, as soon as that temp HP is gone due to incoming damage, the healing stops. For example, I was farming EE DQ chests some days ago, threw a cocoon on myself, got the first tick, got hit twice which took away the temp HP right away, and that first tick of healing was all I got.

So cocoon is great, no doubt about that, but using it when taking too much incoming damage can be problematic - starting a relatively long cooldown in exchange for only getting one tick makes this ability useful for soloing due to reduced damage from scaling, but not that good for full groups on higher difficulties, and definitely not that reliable for keeping tanks up in higher difficulty raids.I guess that's why it's only tier 1 compared to the EA's tier 3 ability.

Anyway, just thought I'd put the word out. I thought I was the only person that didn't get the description right at first, but then I found out most of my guildies didn't know how cocoon works either. So I figure this'll be useful to people out there that are weighing it up and considering twisting it, without actually having tested it yet.

[Nerveya]

Thank you for this write-up, Sir. +1 rep to you.

Just wanted to say a few words about the cocoon ability. The description is somewhat incomplete. I think they should have added a line saying "Losing the temporary HP to incoming damage ends the healing portion of the spell prematurely" or something to that effect. I know that "while the shield is active" kinda covers that, but then again it's not clear if the shield ends after 9 seconds period, or when the temp HP is gone.

I'm saying that because initially, I thought Cocoon works for 9 seconds regardless of whether or not the temp HP is still there. The fact is, though, as soon as that temp HP is gone due to incoming damage, the healing stops. For example, I was farming EE DQ chests some days ago, threw a cocoon on myself, got the first tick, got hit twice which took away the temp HP right away, and that first tick of healing was all I got.

So cocoon is great, no doubt about that, but using it when taking too much incoming damage can be problematic - starting a relatively long cooldown in exchange for only getting one tick makes this ability useful for soloing due to reduced damage from scaling, but not that good for full groups on higher difficulties, and definitely not that reliable for keeping tanks up in higher difficulty raids.I guess that's why it's only tier 1 compared to the EA's tier 3 ability.

Anyway, just thought I'd put the word out. I thought I was the only person that didn't get the description right at first, but then I found out most of my guildies didn't know how cocoon works either. So I figure this'll be useful to people out there that are weighing it up and considering twisting it, without actually having tested it yet.

Ah! Thanks for the +1. And yes, that's exactly how it works. The actual description is sort of vague, but it says is pretty clearly. Tis why I wrote it up as I did: "Basic Description: '...' Heals 5d6 HP every 2 seconds while the shield is active."

I think I've said it earlier (and in the disclaimer lol), but I wrote this with a pretty good amount of sarcasm. Ideally, you want to use Cocoon when you lose line of sight, or during fights to spot heal a kiter or other role that the healer may not be actively paying attention to. Also, it can be used to heal yourself and anyone in case of a rough spot. 150 shield is usually enough to get 1-2 ticks of healing in even in the worst case. So that's a minimum of 10d6 + 150 temp shield worth of effective healing you receive.

Cocoon is by no means a primary form of healing in a raid situation, though it's not that bad. It is a nice balance compared to the other 3 forms of healing Destinies provide: Fast Healing provides consistent, unending healing but it low in values, Healing Spring gives relatively strong aoe healing but has charges and only lasts 5 minutes, and Rejuv is relatively strong, cheap healing on a low cooldown but is single target.

Compared to those, Cocoon gives healing just as powerful (or more-so) than Healing Spring and Rejuv, is over time like Rejuv, gives a decent shield (150 is pretty nice), but relies on the shield to be active to heal and has a long cooldown. It also has no cast limit and is pretty darn cheap at 12sp as well as being self- and ally-cast-able.

Cocoon is great for a lot of builds that have no reliable spell-based self-healing and can afford it. Fleshie Sorcs, Artificers, and Archmages, especially. It could also be a very strong solo-melee tool as well: allowing melees that would normally have to be Exalted Angel to self-heal be in their destiny of choice and just twist this in. Other melees like Paladins, Rangers, or anyone with split classes that have some SP could also use Cocoon to great effect to save on, say, Silver Flame Potions.

Its cooldown is long if it dies early, but its a very strong spell if you use it to augment existing non-spell based self-healing like Heal Scrolls, Potions, and the like.

[Glenalth]

Looks like all of the seasonal auras can apply to hostile mobs that start as non-hostile NPCs or have scripted events where they cannot be damaged.

That gives you 2 more abilities in this destiny that you can use to kill your party.

And those cold DoTs stack up fast against a player's attack speed.

[verad]

strength of spirit
magic of nature (should be level 1 as if a melee without a mana pool takes this ED they gotta wait till rank 2 to use skills like rejuvenation cocoon. (other eds seem to follow this)

primal travel (I honestly have no reason to use this skill....i tried it.....then it left the hotbar)

mighty among spirits (even with 15 seconds and only being able to make spirit every 3 seconds its terribly hard to maintain or even gain spirits)

eternal return (is this the worst healing ability ever?....at first i thought I gained 4 sp every 2 seconds...but lose??? isn't the tier 1 ability rejuvenation cocoon even better healing than this? I hope this is an error!

walk with spirits (100 sp invis?)
It's really time consuming to be able to micro manage all the spirits and to maintain abilities hell I had hard enough time keeping one ability up I cant imagine trying to use 2-3 at the same time. If i cast an offensive spell i get 2 spirits if i swing my sword i get 1...its just not even useful as is right now.

1
ephemeral evolution ( at most depending on your current PRR this ability even at max tier and fully charged you may get as little as 1% damage reduction all the way up to a wopping 7% if you have 0 prr) because of the scaling system PRR is it makes it hard for this ability to be useful. If it gave temp hitpoints or temp DR it may be worth using. 1-15 dr or 1-15 hitpoints something along that "nature"

rejuvenation cocoon (good ability tho it doesn't appear to have a line of site to cast it and i cant even figure out the range.)

insidious spores (bugged staying away from even using this till fixed) (hits party members)

friends of nature (other than the abilitys being completely lackluster and trying to keep them alive under certain situations and that you have to recast every time you zone but the timer is
super long....completely useless....give them abilitys that matter 5% hp boost to party, +1 damage party, trap sence party, etc.
2
seeking balance (more tumble and balance....no thanks waste of points)

supple as spring (cool ability seems bugged tho i was somehow getting 5% when i looked at my character sheet....and do differnt numbers stack what if 2 people have this ED in the party will they stack and we get 6%? really unsure... nice party ability though

contagious spores (see above broken)
natural shielding (its a meh ability I am sure some players that do epic norm content are happy their pets and hirlings are a little stronger now....useless EH EE.
3
balanced attacks (i hope the to hit system gets fixed and this ability is worthwhile...currently only missing on a 1....useless skill.)

summer smoke (mixed) skill itself seems nice the proc rate is crazy low I am guessing 1-2% Originally i thought it was a broken skill because I did not see a proc in 2 hrs of gameplay.... currently bugged and is being applied to inactive enemy mobs.)

tsunami (no comment not a caster build)

the oncomming storm (more hirling buffs meh)
4
paired parry (seems good though i seriously doubt anyone will take 5ac over 5% damage why not just make this skill 5ac and 5% damage or 4/4 whatever.

autumn harvest (currently bugged it healed the monster I was fighting.)

stormrage (no comment not a caster build)

summon dryad elder (joy a summon...she just spammed lightning strike and healed herself just another selfish summon)
5
chill of winter (good skill but horribly broken.......killed myself and a few party members already and almost a raid. It appears these abilitys summer smoke/supple as spring/ etc are not limited to (group) members but actually npc's hirlings and even monsters that have not yet become active. Monsters that do not start active gain the buff and when you attack them you get destroyed by your own skill....awesomness...

spirit boon (so hard to maintain these abilitys and i used the physical ones I fear using the umd lag ones....pretty much as i suspected i would just get this after I attack a mob and then they would drain so fast and just flip on and off all the time. cool bug is when you do die and you go to rez you will autodie. (badly broken)
6
nature's fury (yeah its good i'm sure some builds will be happy with this)

avatar of nature (with spirit already being ridiculous to maintain this spirt vacuum is horrid to maintain....the animations are very broken...your attack speed and damage is completely changed....while in the form you cannot cast or quaff...its like the old tenser's transformation all over again...and who used that?>

[verad]

Interesting thing of note I crashed while in this ED around 8 times yesterday in quests, in the market, in groups....I think it has something to do with applying the auras to players and monsters around me....Generally I am one of those lucky players that crash in a blue moon or once every 3 months not 8 times a day...Today when not using this ED I had 0 crashes.

V

[zealous]

strength of spirit
magic of nature (should be level 1 as if a melee without a mana pool takes this ED they gotta wait till rank 2 to use skills like rejuvenation cocoon. (other eds seem to follow this)

Spell points item. Regular item or slot it in a guild slot.

The ability to twist cocoon would likely warrant this for many melee for many party compositions.



stormrage (no comment not a caster build)

It works with melee and despite only operating at half the stated power and despite the massive lag on casting it, 50ish DPS is not something to pass up on.

As a comparison, sense weakness will give 15-40DPS, depending on combat style. Add haste boost and +30% against helpless though.

[HuneyMunster]

I think Tsunami save is definitely broken. I tried it in Kings Forest while leveling Primal on my Cleric. I twisted in Avenging light which has the same save of 10+char lvl+wis mod. Avenging Light rarely has it save made, the cold part of Tsunami always is saved ecept twice, that was on a squirels (which i had alot of problems trying to hit).

Was thinking of twisting this in instead of/with Energy Burst. Im gonna keep Boulder Toss instead as it does more damage and cost no spell points, just a longer cooldown.

Edit: I hav managed to get some success on the cold/knockdown part against Necros and wisps in Kings Forest.

[noinfo]

Level 5
Walk with the Spirits
Type: Active
Basic Description: Gain 25% incorporeal (non-stacking), invisibility, and ethereal to monsters, and gain +30 Hide and Move Silently. Costs 1 Spirit and 100 SP to activate, and 1 Spirit per second. It turns off when you run out of spirit.

-Does it work?
Yes. Completely WAI.

-Is it any good?
Maybe. To be honest: it's expensive and impossible to upkeep. It doesn't last too long and the benefits aren't too good. You be the judge.




Potentially cool worthwhile ability but due to the fact you can't even remotely sustain or keep it going it is the most worthless ability here.

[Diyon]

Potentially cool worthwhile ability but due to the fact you can't even remotely sustain or keep it going it is the most worthless ability here.

Ya, I'm thinking it need to be either a little longer lasting potential, or the SP cost greatly lowered. If it were 10 SP instead of 100, it could be something you casually flip on and off as needed. 100 SP makes you absolutely want to get all that you can out of it, and that isn't too much.

[hermespan]

Only thing that really bugs me about primal avatar (other than all the bugs :P) is that its epic moment form pretty much benefits from none of the most useful abilities of its tree. You can't cast cocoon or stormrage in it, in fact you can't cast..at all. From what I've heard none of the left-side bonuses apply to it since it's not an animal form (but yet to confirm) and I don't plan on twfing so this seems like an arbitrary restriction for something that's supposedly a jack of all trades destiny.

The attack speed is horrendous too. I got it tried it and traded up for evasion after playtesting it. AoN is pretty much a huge disappointment. I do way more damage staying in wolf form, and keeping my attack speed and doublestrike, and not losing time shifting back into wolf form afterwards.

The damage per attack is impressive, but I'm counting 5 attacks when hitting the button before my time runs out. In the same span of time I can get at least 8 crits in wolf form, and keep my sneak attack damage.

haste boost twisted from dreadnought is better than this epic moment for a melee druid.

[Mark2422]

Caster? They do minimal damage even compared to the worst geared wizard in terms of damage and don't have the SP pool to support spamming spells to keep up. CC is minimal, but decent. Earthquake is pretty awesome. But that's it. The main problem is DCs and Spell Slots: You get very little inherent boost to any DCs and have a VERY limited number of useful spells. Will you do as much damage as a Wizard or Sorc double DOT'ing and using SLAs? Never in your wildest dreams. Will you be able to instakill or CC as well as a PM, Archmage, or Necro-Sorc? Nope again.

Healer? Decent healing potential, long durations, short cooldowns, but a lack of a repertoire of buffs and healing spells that go beyond spot or augment healing. Also, not enough sp to support constant healing. Will they heal as well as a Cleric or FvS? Never. Will they buff as strongly as a Bard? No. But they can get close with buffing using this Destiny.


A little off topic but I have to disagree with some of what you are saying here. Ah who am I kidding, I disagree with all of what you said.

First of all, I dont think its a fair comparison when you are comparing a divine caster to an arcane but we will go with it.

A druid can do very good dps. Can easily out DPS a FvS in a group since they have AoE's that do not need mobs to be kited through it. And Greater creeping cold can equal a 2 stack of DP or the arcane equives. And in a lot of cases even equal a 3 stack. But the beaty of it is, GCC doesnt need to stack and is more cost effective as a result. So for these reasons I dont see how people can knock a caster druids dps.

As for DC, no class can match a wiz DC and they are not supposed to. But druids can achieve high DC for their CC to be effective in top end content. I know because I have done it. The only thing a druid needs to realise is that your spells cover a range of schools so you cannot have high dc in all of them. Choose one and focus alittle.

Druid CC I personally would say is more than decent, since you even admit yourself Earthquake is amazing. But even if we agree to disagree, druid CC is still a hundred times better than the other divine casters.

As for your healer arguements. I was a healer FvS for 3 years. I played the class almost exclusively during that time as I am a one toon player for the most part. And believe me, having tr'ed into a druid, not only can a match a FvS ability to heal a group/raid. I can do it for longer because my heals are more cost affective. As a druid I have 3000sp so thats not bother. And while my HoT's are running, I am free to perform other tasks like CC and DPS. We are far better tank healers than any other class and can quite easily manage a group.

I know there are a lot of bad druids out there. Some are trying to be a jack of to many trades and some just dont know what they are doing. Its not an easy class to start playing because everyone is trying to play them like a sorc or like a FvS. And failing. Its a druid caster. When more people start playing it like a druid caster things will get better.

[Mark2422]

Back on topic...

Has anyone tested the "unarmed" aspect of the left side abilities. Does holding a scroll count as being unarmed for example. Same for shield and wiz orb??