Is Conquest an "optional"?

[mobrien316]

Joined a Trial by Fire quest in GH where the LFM read, "leet, all opts, max XP, BB". We step in and the leader is running ahead, past the trolls and spiders, until we get a DAR.

At first I thought he was just gathering up the mobs so we could kill them all in one spot as soon as the DAR came up, and then move on and do it again, but apparently not. He starts yelling at us that we're not keeping up and that we should be invisible. When we start fighting the spiders under Dungeon Alert Red at the door, he yells at everyone again because we're fighting - he just wants to continue.

When he kept yelling about how "zerging means being invisible" I said that I believe the spiders have tremor sense and invisibility isn't very effective in those corridors. He said I was wrong. I also mentioned that the LFM specified "all opts" and "max XP" and said that I thought that means we'd be going for conquest and ransack. He said something about "everyone knows those aren't optionals" and then ragequit a couple of minutes later.

Besides the leader being a bit of a d-bag, it did raise the question as to whether conquest and ransack are optionals, or if "optionals" are only the added quest activities. When I see an LFM that reads "all opts" or "max XP" I always assume that includes conquest and ransack.

[FranOhmsford]

The leader was a D-Bag as you so eloquently put it!

Conquest and Ransack are THE MOST IMPORTANT Optionals of all!

There's no point going for Optionals if you're not going to bother to get these two!

Ingenious Debilitation and Observation in Certain Quests can add a nice amount to XP too!

Just remember that there are a few quests where it is impossible to get Conquest or Ransack - You'd look pretty foolish if you were insisting on trying for them in those quests!

[bartharok]

conquest and ransack are not optionals as such, but they are definitely included in max XP

[Gkar]

Joined a Trial by Fire quest in GH where the LFM read, "leet, all opts, max XP, BB". We step in and the leader is running ahead, past the trolls and spiders, until we get a DAR.

At first I thought he was just gathering up the mobs so we could kill them all in one spot as soon as the DAR came up, and then move on and do it again, but apparently not. He starts yelling at us that we're not keeping up and that we should be invisible. When we start fighting the spiders under Dungeon Alert Red at the door, he yells at everyone again because we're fighting - he just wants to continue.

When he kept yelling about how "zerging means being invisible" I said that I believe the spiders have tremor sense and invisibility isn't very effective in those corridors. He said I was wrong. I also mentioned that the LFM specified "all opts" and "max XP" and said that I thought that means we'd be going for conquest and ransack. He said something about "everyone knows those aren't optionals" and then ragequit a couple of minutes later.

Besides the leader being a bit of a d-bag, it did raise the question as to whether conquest and ransack are optionals, or if "optionals" are only the added quest activities. When I see an LFM that reads "all opts" or "max XP" I always assume that includes conquest and ransack.


I wouldn't consider those optionals. To me an optional is something listed as an optional in the quest objectives. In the case of TBF, that would make the locked door spider an optional. However, "max xp" would most certainly mean conquest/ransack in quests where that is possible.

[Dandonk]

I wouldn't consider those optionals. To me an optional is something listed as an optional in the quest objectives. In the case of TBF, that would make the locked door spider an optional. However, "max xp" would most certainly mean conquest/ransack in quests where that is possible.

That's it for me, too, "All opts" in itself would not necessarily mean getting the conquest etc things, but "max xp" certainly would indicate to me that the leader intends to spend time getting all the extra bonuses possible.

[Lehmu]

I wouldn't say conquest & ransack are optionals. They are, however, necessary for max xp...which is why zergers don't care about max xp, but max xp/min.

This brings up a fun point in that lfm. It didn't say zerg anywhere, yet the leader insists on zerging. Maybe he should've put that in his lfm. Then again, if he did that, the 'max xp' would be contradictory. There's very few quests you can both zerg and get max xp from at the same time. (tangleroot part 6 comes to mind)

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

My opinion: Conquest and Ransack and all others are optionals.

Reason: You can finish quest without them, but completing those optional objectives nets you extra xp. Same as all other optionals (ones that give xp, at least).

Some quests even give extra xp for these optional objectives (for example, slaying minotaurs in Frame Work quest).

On the behaviour of the team leader, I think the rest of the team should ragekick him.

Carry on.

P.S: To the Devs: we need /ragequit and /ragekick commands.

[bartharok]

My opinion: Conquest and Ransack and all others are optionals.

Reason: You can finish quest without them, but completing those optional objectives nets you extra xp. Same as all other optionals (ones that give xp, at least).

Some quests even give extra xp for these optional objectives (for example, slaying minotaurs in Frame Work quest).

On the behaviour of the team leader, I think the rest of the team should ragekick him.

Carry on.

P.S: To the Devs: we need /ragequit and /ragekick commands.

/ragequit should trigger a random torrent of poorly phrased invective and comments about the skills and sanity of all the other players, send continuosly on /tell for the next minutes to all the others in group, after which it should fill general with the same. Adter 10 minutes it should automatically send a warning to the player for bad language and harassment. Would save a lot of time for all involved

[SirValentine]

Besides the leader being a bit of a d-bag, it did raise the question as to whether conquest and ransack are optionals, or if "optionals" are only the added quest activities. When I see an LFM that reads "all opts" or "max XP" I always assume that includes conquest and ransack.


Well, you can't get both the Conquest optional AND the **Insidious Cunning** optional. Maybe he was going for the latter? But yes, a killing or not-killing XP bonus is part of "max XP".

[redspecter23]

It doesn't matter if conquest is an optional. He stated "max xp". In any quest where conquest is a reasonable goal, I'd count that as maxing your xp. Trial by Fire is a very fast quest that is only slightly slower if you break the team up and go for all breakables and conquest. Judging from the LFM, I'd say that conquest was implied.

That being said, the leader was a tool for not at least acknowledging that the group should stop while under red alert. While he may be ahead of the pack running, the rest of the group is behind in the thick of it. You may not have any choice but to stop.

[skullzz]

You can't get the cunning bonus in a quest that requires you to kill 4 trolls minimum.
However, that leader did not post lfm correctly if the wanted to zerg. That is their own fault for putting the opposite of what they wanted in the listing.

OP : you and the others were fine in that you did what the lfm said. However when the leader said about just leaving stuff after words you should have asked for clearification on expectation of run.
Once an understanding was reached you should follow the group leader's directions.
Minimizes drama in party and forums.

[glouky]

Besides the leader being a bit of a d-bag, it did raise the question as to whether conquest and ransack are optionals, or if "optionals" are only the added quest activities. When I see an LFM that reads "all opts" or "max XP" I always assume that includes conquest and ransack.

Formally, it is not "optional" in the DDO glossary, but it is in common vocabulary (you don't have to do it to complete).
Anyway, it is fun to have drama in a less than 10 min quest. Just imagine the same scenario in a loooonnnng quest to be sure it is nice to have it there after all.

[Hendrik]

That's it for me, too, "All opts" in itself would not necessarily mean getting the conquest etc things, but "max xp" certainly would indicate to me that the leader intends to spend time getting all the extra bonuses possible.

While the may not be Quest optionals they are max xp optionals.

The leader was being self contradictional and not clear.

[Mastikator]

conquest and ransack are not optionals as such, but they are definitely included in max XP

This.
Ergo the team leader was clearly in the wrong.

[AzB]

Why can't these people just put zerg in their description? It seem like it would eliminate a lot of confusion.

Running diplo with a pug the other night, the leader just says "invis" and takes off running. Ok, we all do so with varying amounts of speed and efficiency. So we're a bit strung out running through the scorps, and naturally pick up a few as they have tremor sense and invis only works on them to a certain degree. I'm hugging the wall, but the leader is just making a beeline for the first objective and runs through the middle of the jungle. So by the time we get to the panthers, we've got a huge train and the oanthers are getting on it too. I see on my map window that a couple of the blue dots are falling behind a bit. So I turn around for a sec to see what's going on and naturally what I see is a wave of scorps overwhelming our last two party members. They're probably harried and with at least 30 scorps and a half dozen panthers around them, I smell disaster. And of course, in the time it takes to look and dtermine all this, I'm now in the swarm and harried. So I cast another aura to keep myself alive, and proceed to drop an acid rain and firewall on the scorps before we all die.

So the leader gets on his mic and starts screaming "what the f part of invisible don't you people understand? Are you all f'ing ********?" And promptly drops us all. Historic ragequit, complete with profanity and personal attacks. We all regrouped without him and finish the quest, with no drama naturally.

Putting zerg in the description might eliminate some of the problems for these people, and it seems so simple. I generally avoid any lfms that try too hard to sound like someone takes this game way too seriously, and zerg is one of the primary indicators I look for

[darthhento]

If it says "Max XP" I would assume the following where appliable:
Conquest
Ingenious
Ransack
All optionals
*No deaths

If it says "Zerg Max XP" I would assume max xp/min, kill only what you have to.

And yes, spiders have a tremor sense so invis means jack in that perticular quest. So yes, your leader was an misguided moron. Also, you need to kill 2 trolls at the begining to finish that perticular quest along with the red names.

[danzig138]

If it says "Max XP" I would assume the following where appliable:

Agreed. The party leader did not clearly articulate what he wanted.

[Wipey]

I don't consider ransack/conquest optionals.
In TBF I might hit some breakables on the run and of course keeping alert down so we might get aggression/mischief, but it's done in 3-4 mins so getting ALL monsters and breakables is pretty stupid. You can do 2 more runs instead.

I think it's worth it only in Cry, with ransack,kill and trap bonus you are still at 2k/min even after 7 or 8 repetitions.
Going for devious with group is not the smartest idea either.

[Missing_Minds]

I consider ransack and conquest optionals. You either choose to do them or not.

However, given the leader's LFM stated "max XP" they were most definitely included.


As for invisibility vs spider tremorsense. I don't know any more. Before I took a druid down through the Tanglroot set (specifically the whisperdoom one) I would have said they see you. However, when going to break the eggs, they really didn't seem to see me, persay. The ranged attacks by the black widow were always way off, and the dark fangs had issues tracking me, but they still could.

It is almost like they had a clue but didn't know for certain. I didn't pay attention to my combat log to see if miss chances went up at all.

[DarkForte]

The leader was a D-Bag as you so eloquently put it!

Conquest and Ransack are THE MOST IMPORTANT Optionals of all!

There's no point going for Optionals if you're not going to bother to get these two!

Ingenious Debilitation and Observation in Certain Quests can add a nice amount to XP too!

Just remember that there are a few quests where it is impossible to get Conquest or Ransack - You'd look pretty foolish if you were insisting on trying for them in those quests!

I'd just like to remind you that 'devious' and 'insidious cunning' are optionals too. If getting one of those is possible, it's 95% of the time more time-efficient than killing everything.

[DarkForte]

Why can't these people just put zerg in their description? It seem like it would eliminate a lot of confusion.

Running diplo with a pug the other night, the leader just says "invis" and takes off running. Ok, we all do so with varying amounts of speed and efficiency. So we're a bit strung out running through the scorps, and naturally pick up a few as they have tremor sense and invis only works on them to a certain degree. I'm hugging the wall, but the leader is just making a beeline for the first objective and runs through the middle of the jungle. So by the time we get to the panthers, we've got a huge train and the oanthers are getting on it too. I see on my map window that a couple of the blue dots are falling behind a bit. So I turn around for a sec to see what's going on and naturally what I see is a wave of scorps overwhelming our last two party members. They're probably harried and with at least 30 scorps and a half dozen panthers around them, I smell disaster. And of course, in the time it takes to look and dtermine all this, I'm now in the swarm and harried. So I cast another aura to keep myself alive, and proceed to drop an acid rain and firewall on the scorps before we all die.

So the leader gets on his mic and starts screaming "what the f part of invisible don't you people understand? Are you all f'ing ********?" And promptly drops us all. Historic ragequit, complete with profanity and personal attacks. We all regrouped without him and finish the quest, with no drama naturally.

Putting zerg in the description might eliminate some of the problems for these people, and it seems so simple. I generally avoid any lfms that try too hard to sound like someone takes this game way too seriously, and zerg is one of the primary indicators I look for

The guy is a bit silly, but for trying that in a full pug. Two people are best for that one.

Also, I've never had any problems avoiding the scorpions in there when invisible, and do that quest with 1 kill routinely. It's just a matter of running through that portion with everyone reasonably close to each other so the scorpions that spawn after you run won't meet the stragglers and bump into them.

Also, not all scorpions have tremor sense (Claw of Vulkoor is the most trivial example of it).

On another note, when I put an LFM saying 'expeditious completion, byoh, invising', 90% of the time, I get people who can't do their own invis. So no, it doesn't help at all.

[Hambo]

I wouldn't say conquest & ransack are optionals. They are, however, necessary for max xp...which is why zergers don't care about max xp, but max xp/min.

This brings up a fun point in that lfm. It didn't say zerg anywhere, yet the leader insists on zerging. Maybe he should've put that in his lfm. Then again, if he did that, the 'max xp' would be contradictory. There's very few quests you can both zerg and get max xp from at the same time. (tangleroot part 6 comes to mind)

...unless you can't run as fast as everyone else and get to the gate only to find every mob in the quest waiting for you... :D

[darthhento]

~scorpions~

We're talking spiders here, not scorps. Trial by Fire doesn't have scorps.

[DarkForte]

We're talking spiders here, not scorps. Trial by Fire doesn't have scorps.
Read the post I quoted maybe?



Running diplo with a pug the other night, the leader just says "invis" and takes off running. Ok, we all do so with varying amounts of speed and efficiency. So we're a bit strung out running through the scorps, and naturally pick up a few as they have tremor sense and invis only works on them to a certain degree.

[Machination]

Conquest and Ransack are THE MOST IMPORTANT Optionals of all!

There's no point going for Optionals if you're not going to bother to get these two!

I would argue that this is entirely situational and depends upon the group. As an example, how many times have you achieved WIZ KING conquest and ransack, yet not pursued the other optionals, and visa-versa?

There are many quests where conquest and ransack are a waste of time.

[LOOON375]

Yes it's an optional. If it gives XP but isn't required for completion, it's an optional objective.

[Viisari]

conquest and ransack are not optionals as such, but they are definitely included in max XP

No they're not if you're supposed to repeat runs and getting conquest etc would take too much time. In that case it's anything but max xp, more like less xp.

Party leader was a ****** regardless of how people view conquest and optionals.

[Postumus]

I wouldn't say conquest & ransack are optionals. They are, however, necessary for max xp...which is why zergers don't care about max xp, but max xp/min.

This brings up a fun point in that lfm. It didn't say zerg anywhere, yet the leader insists on zerging. Maybe he should've put that in his lfm. Then again, if he did that, the 'max xp' would be contradictory. There's very few quests you can both zerg and get max xp from at the same time. (tangleroot part 6 comes to mind)

This. Max xp, to me, means conquest, ransack, etc. Optionals means killing all the Omarens in Deleras.

[darthhento]

Read the post I quoted maybe?

No, my apologies, I failed my /read check against that related story time and failed on /walloftext save and assumed you were referring to the OP.

And indeed, not all scorps have tremor sense.

[madmaxhunter]

I'd just like to remind you that 'devious' and 'insidious cunning' are optionals too. If getting one of those is possible, it's 95% of the time more time-efficient than killing everything.

True, but it's not MAX exp. You can't get as much with insidious as conquest.

I'm all for killing as you go. I ran Desecrated Temple of Vol with some channel friends, all hard-core exp/min types. Clear the left side, grab keys, drop down the hole. After clearing the chamber below one starts running out through the side hallways and we went red DA. Within a few minutes the entire party was stones. We had a good laugh at it. Reset, slowed down a bit and finished.

Of course I've been accused of having a propensity to inhale the sweet vapors wafting off of fragrant drowshoods.

[FranOhmsford]

I'd just like to remind you that 'devious' and 'insidious cunning' are optionals too. If getting one of those is possible, it's 95% of the time more time-efficient than killing everything.

The only quest I consider worth getting Insidious in is Stealthy Repo - Zerg to gem without killing anything, pick up gem, kill everything - Guaranteed Insidious!

Everywhere else it's far more efficient to go for at least Vandal/Onslaught then to try for Insidious!


I would argue that this is entirely situational and depends upon the group. As an example, how many times have you achieved WIZ KING conquest and ransack, yet not pursued the other optionals, and visa-versa?

There are many quests where conquest and ransack are a waste of time.

Sorry but you won't find me in a Wiz King - Solo a Tower run unless the LFM made no mention that that was what was expected!

I wouldn't go putting an LFM up for all opts/max xp in Wiz King either frankly having seen just how hard getting the likes of Ransack/Conquest would be in there!

This is one of my most hated quests - One I tend to get over and done with - I certainly don't repeat it ad nauseum!

P.S. Chains of Flame - Breakable/Kill bonuses {not sure if they go all the way to Ransack or Conquest} actually far easier to get then finding all the slaves!
Why can't the Devs make these NPCs easier to pick out in quests? This one is almost {not quite} as bad as Stromvauld's Mine!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was replying to the OP who was talking about a Gianthold Walkup - Not a super hard for it's level required flagging quest!
I mentioned other bonuses that are dependent on the quest whether they're worth the hassle of getting and YES Conquest and Ransack at times are not worth going for {especially as I mentioned in a number of quests where they're not actually achievable!}.

Going by the OP's post I maintain my view that without Conquest and Ransack you may as well just not bother with Opts at all!
And I also maintain that the Party Leader was completely in the wrong in that instance!

[taurean430]

Not in agreement with the described party leads actions.

However, many quests can be done in such a way to get insidious or devious bonuses. Though I wouldn't consider these things to be optionals.

There are certain quests in this game that are considered to be zerg standard, Trial is one of them. It is also a quest that, for fast levelers is far more efficient to run quickly without full conquest then rinse/repeat until eye bleeding or ransack ensues.

In reference to the comment on Diplomatic Impunity, you do not spawn scorpions if you avoid stepping onto the different colored ground areas surrounding the bushes/large plants.

Sounds like the party lead was just not there yet in terms of knowledge of how Trial works. Or spiders for that matter. While frustrating to form a party and have the intent turned on you, I wouldn't condone the behavior described. What would have worked better would have been something akin to, "... let me show you how this works..." One slow run, then umpteen fast ones is not a bad tradeoff.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

Just my opinion (and seems to be shared by some others)

Optionals are things that bear such a title in the XP summary.

Ransack/Conquest/Insidious Dibilitation are things you would find in a MAX XP run.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

IMO, max XP means ransack and conquest. And probably most optionals as well.

and I would not willingly join any LFM where people just wanted to run past everything while Invisible. (possible exception of Claw... but even then...)

(I would join if the group wanted to sneak past everything though. :cool: )

There is no fun in it to me to run past everything.... causing red alert (so they see invis) leaving people behind...... etc. etc.


Now, I do prefer a fast pace. I like action... not standing around all day.

I often break things and do un-necessary kills as a way of keeping busy in a slow group.

I'm ok with not breaking things and not doing all the kills. But I'm not ok with just running to the end as fast as possible.

[Phemt81]

When he kept yelling about how "zerging means being invisible" I said that I believe the spiders have tremor sense and invisibility isn't very effective in those corridors. He said I was wrong. I also mentioned that the LFM specified "all opts" and "max XP" and said that I thought that means we'd be going for conquest and ransack. He said something about "everyone knows those aren't optionals" and then ragequit a couple of minutes later.

When i talk to someone lacking so much logic skills, i use to refer to them as "kids".

Sometimes i am wrong.

Sometimes they are just women :D

[Archangel666]

When i talk to someone lacking so much logic skills, i use to refer to them as "kids".

Sometimes i am wrong.

Sometimes they are just women :D

OOOOO! I laughed but you're so going to get burned for that one.


To the OP, I tend to agree with everyone else on this one. Max XP is kinda hard to do when you zerg past mobs leaving a trail of Red Alert for your party members to run into.

[Enoach]

The way I see it is that there is actually two sets of Optionals

1st - Quest specific optionals <- stuff defined in this quest, such as Kill "Boss X" etc. These are found in the upper area

2nd - All Quest optionals <- Theoretically stuff that can be accomplished in any quest, such as "No Reentry", "No Deaths", "Ransack", "Conquest", "Trap Bonus" etc. (we as the player base have learned certain quests do not have enough to achieve certain bonuses)

I believe based on the original LFM as shown here that there was a miss-communication between what the party leader was going for XP/Min vs Getting all the XP a quest can possibly give you. This was pretty obvious when DAr showed up and they didn't turn and waste everything.

Also, spiders do have tremor sense, so invisibility is near useless against them, animals with keen senses and smell (wolf/bear/rat/etc) require more than invisibility to get past, you need to be quiet as well, which precludes running, unless you can give them a wide berth.

I've attempted sneaking by spiders with a very high move silent/hide skill and generally get picked up and eventually found. I then turned around and with a slightly lower move silent/hide skill on a PM wizard using Invisibility to be hidden from sight, and Wraith form, I was able to sneak past them. Done the same in Claw. So it appears to me that Tremor sense is active and you need more then invisibility to get past.

On Diplo, simply running along the edge and not straight down the middle seems to be enough to get past scorps. But I also agree, the "Running Through" method only works well if the group is together, otherwise the slower will just get picked off.

[Cyr]

Sounds like the party lead did not clearly state what they meant.

conq and other bonus xp things are not optionals, but certainly could be included in a 'max xp' description. That said, I think the party leader meant 'max xp/min' and was either not wise enough to put it in the lfm or the op did not notice or did not bother writting it in their OP.

Fyi, 'max xp' runs tend to be moderate to poor xp/min unless the party is very cordinated and effective at splitting up.

[redoubt]

While not listed as optionals on the xp page, they are things that you have the option to do.

In a "max xp" run, conquest and breakables, in my opinion, should be included.

Remember his name and don't group with him anymore.

[Handpicked]

Alright, here is the breakdown.

Although all objectives that do not need to be fullfield for completion of the quest are technicaly, rhetorically, and semantically optional... the in-game term "optional" is in reference to the quest objectives that appear in the corner and are preceded by the word "optional" in parenthesis. Thats obvious, I know, but here is why;

Things like Observance and Ransack are not optionals, they are bonuses. First, they say so, again... obvious. More importantly though... in a quest you can choose to complete optionals or not to on a per optional basis. With bonuses however, completing certain bonuses either overrides another (as with Onslaught and Conquest) or eliminates the possibility of another (such as Conquest or Insidious Cunning). In certain dungeons, certain bonuses may not even be attempted- as with a dungeon with no traps, or too few monsters for example. So in the OP's LFM it is technically possible to complete all optionals, but it is NEVER possible to complete all bonuses. Choices must be made.

This is why the distinction is important, by my rationale.

[LOOON375]

This is why the distinction is important, by my rationale.Semantics plain and simple.

It still doesn't change the fact that the things we are talking about are ALL optional objectives. You either do them or you don't. And if you do them or you don't, it doesn't affect the outcome of the quest in any way. You still complete regardless.

[gallantian]

Alright, here is the breakdown.

Although all objectives that do not need to be fullfield for completion of the quest are technicaly, rhetorically, and semantically optional... the in-game term "optional" is in reference to the quest objectives that appear in the corner and are preceded by the word "optional" in parenthesis. Thats obvious, I know, but here is why;

Things like Observance and Ransack are not optionals, they are bonuses. First, they say so, again... obvious. More importantly though... in a quest you can choose to complete optionals or not to on a per optional basis. With bonuses however, completing certain bonuses either overrides another (as with Onslaught and Conquest) or eliminates the possibility of another (such as Conquest or Insidious Cunning). In certain dungeons, certain bonuses may not even be attempted- as with a dungeon with no traps, or too few monsters for example. So in the OP's LFM it is technically possible to complete all optionals, but it is NEVER possible to complete all bonuses. Choices must be made.

This is why the distinction is important, by my rationale.

This is what I was gonna say, but this much more succinct and written better than I would have been able to. So, I will go with this here.

[bartharok]

No they're not if you're supposed to repeat runs and getting conquest etc would take too much time. In that case it's anything but max xp, more like less xp.

Party leader was a ****** regardless of how people view conquest and optionals.

In your case max xp would mean to get to 25 and nothing else? Max XP does not include extra runs when posted on a lfm, unless stated.

[MRMechMan]

Conquest and ransack are not optionals. They are bonuses. Optional bonuses :D.

However, saying "max xp" would lead you to believe that you are getting conq/ransack.

Leader in OP sounds like a tool.

But, often it is NOT worth getting ransack/conquest if going for max xp/min. Often it is not worth doing some optionals. (looking at you franohmsford). Ransack in von3=awesome, just takes 1 room and extra 10-20s. Ransack in kobolds new ringleader=waste of time, probably doubles quest time for an extra 15%, NOT worth it, you need like 150-200 breakables.

Insiduous or at least discreet are often worth getting if possible, as it is faster than conquest generally.

Again, it all boils down to xp/min if that is what you care about-that is what makes conquest/ransack/ops worth it...or not worth it. Making a sweeping statement like "if you are doing optionals, conquest/ransack are always worth it" is incredibly foolish. They not only are not ALWAYS worth it, they are OFTEN not worth it.

[SirValentine]

True, but it's not MAX exp. You can't get as much with insidious as conquest.


True, but it's quest-specific. Some quests you CAN'T get Conquest, as there aren't enough mobs.

[Bloodhaven]

ragequit a couple of minutes later.



If he was zerging and it took him more than a couple of minutes, he was doing it wrong.

[Viisari]

In your case max xp would mean to get to 25 and nothing else? Max XP does not include extra runs when posted on a lfm, unless stated.

Well to me "max xp" is a rather meaningless thing to say because when I look at max xp I look at the quests I'm running, how much xp each of them can give and how much time running them takes.

In the case of Trial by Fire the best method for getting max xp is zerging to the end and repeating this about ten times. At that point you've gotten most of the xp (around 40-50k xp I'd say) that quest has in the smallest time frame possible.

If what you want is to get all the xp bonuses and optionals during a run then it's better to simply state that so there can be no confusion.

But as I said, the party leader OP described was a fool regardless of any of this. If what you plan on doing is zerging through everything with invis (which is something I don't do in that quest, me and my groups kill most of the mobs while zerging to the end) then you should plainly state so before doing it.

[Phemt81]

OOOOO! I laughed but you're so going to get burned for that one.

You should have more faith in the ddo community sense of humor...

...or not?