THF Paladin

[TheWired]

Looking to make a THF paladin (not 1h and shield type). This is what ive come up with, any changes I should make?

Ill take Overwhelming crit at 21 and im not sure what at 24.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 362
Spell Points: 300
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 5
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 2 4
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 5
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 5 28
Jump 3 7
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 7
Tumble 0 0
Use Magic Device 5 16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

[Nodoze]

What epic destiny & twists do you plan to take?

FoTW seems pretty crazy with Adrenaline powered Smites and you can twist in Momentum Swing & possibly Lay Waste to reset with your cleaves.

The KoTC situational 4d6 just doesn't seem to wow much anymore so some people are going HotD for the % Healing Amp boost which scales. With your extra feat, if you took Maximize or Empower Healing you may be more able to be self sufficient healing wise. If you healing was still lacking you could twist to make your LoHs regenerate.

Enhancement-wise you may be able to get away with less LoH and pump up Divine Sacrifice for more DPS.

[TheWired]

Planning on fury, I havent gotten into epic destinies yet but I will eventually so I went for cleaves so my character is ready for it. Since I havent gotten into ED's I dont know what twists ill take, ill figure it out when I get there.

The extra amp from HotD is nice but KoTC gives an extra smite for each tier which I like. Guess ill find out what works best down the road, if more heal amp would be nice or more smites. Maximize for self healing seems like a good choice.

From what i've read going past tier 1 of divine sacrifice isn't much of an increase in average damage so I probably wont drop LoH tiers for that, maybe for a higher human damage boost though.

[Nodoze]

I thought your layout was pretty solid and didn't see any major holes for trying to max out a Paladin's DPS. One of my best buds & I like "Pure" Paladins for RP reasons but I thought that I should point out that splashing can be pretty compelling.

You may want to read this thread on Pure Paladins verses splash Paladins (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=396015). My Pure TWF Drow Paladin is max DPS focused (Drow has an easy time getting 20 Charisma for DM-IV) and I also have DS-III. I certainly would not recommend Drow now but for me with DM-IV & DS-III it is harder to give up being pure but with you stopping at DM-III & DS-I anyway you have less reason not to splash...

I can see the benefits of multiple splash options and the 2 extra feats could let you get Quicken (& even both Maximize/Empower Healing for no fail extremely strong heals if you wanted) and there are many other options (Evasion, Bastard-Sword, etc) & benefits (higher saves, some enhancements, etc).

I should also probably denote that some folk go Two-Hand-Fighting (THF) but have a tank mode via Shield & Bastard Sword (http://ddowiki.com/page/Bastard_Sword) (or Dwarven Axe if Dwarf) with decent DPS as those two weapons can behave much like a Two Handed weapon with the right build... With the full THF line a Defender of Siberys (DoS) can still do decent DPS with huge improvements in survivability.

Just because someone goes DoS doesn't mean they can't drop their shield & pull out a real THW and focus on DPS either & save the S&B for when it is really needed... The DoS's +6 sacred Str bonus works on all content (unlike the KoTC bonuses) so a DoS could actually have better sustained DPS than KoTC in some cases...

To go pure tank most DoS then take the Unyielding Sentinel (US) Epic Destiny but there is no reason a DoS can't take Legendary Dreadnaught or Fury of the Wild and go DPS (ideally unlock all EDs and switch back and forth depending on the quest/content).

As a healer I honestly prefer my buddy's THF DoS/US Paladin much more than his previous TWF KotC incarnation. I liked his (and my) TWF KotC Paladins on the Devil's series but now that we are in EveningStar I really like his Intimidating THF DoS/US Paladin with Intolerant Blows as no one can steal his aggro and he is the most survivable tank we have... With his regenerating LoHs I know that if the rest of the party is in trouble I can tell him he is on his own for awhile and he does fine till I can get back to him. On less demanding content he can switch to LD or FotW and go pure THF if we want to zerg and DPS everything down...

If you were to go THF Paladin-18/Fighter-2 (or even pure Paladin-20) and go DoS you can likely be very strong DPS as with DoS you get +6 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, +20% maximum hit points, a +3 Sacred bonus on all saves, 20 physical resistance, a 75% Sacred bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks and a 40% bonus to Armor Class from armors and shields (but don't have to use a shield !)... Being able to scroll in Tower Shields via UMD'ed Masters Touch & have un-interruptable self healing gives a DoS Paladin options a KotC Paladin just doesn't have... If I wasn't Drow (and we didn't already have a better Paladin Tank in our party) I would certainly look at that and respectfully recommend you consider it (if you haven't already).

[TheWired]

I was originally thinking about doing DoS for the extra hp and 6 str/con but I didn't feel like it would be acceptable to do it as a dps for some reason. But after reading that I might take shield mastery at level 6 and move G cleave to level 21 and Over crit to 24. You can use the stance without a shield right?

I dont think ill splash, I want to be pure. If i ever find a +4 cha tome I can get DMIV, the tomes in the planner are more of what I have now than some complete build.

DoS seems really tight with enhancements, hard to fit in everything i want lol.

[Nodoze]

I was originally thinking about doing DoS for the extra hp and 6 str/con but I didn't feel like it would be acceptable to do it as a dps for some reason. But after reading that I might take shield mastery at level 6 and move G cleave to level 21 and Over crit to 24. You can use the stance without a shield right?

I dont think ill splash, I want to be pure. If i ever find a +4 cha tome I can get DMIV, the tomes in the planner are more of what I have now than some complete build.

DoS seems really tight with enhancements, hard to fit in everything i want lol.If you did splash & one day got a +4 tome you can always use a lessor heart of wood +x to convert back to pure... That being said being Pure seems "right for Paladins" to many folk (myself included) but I cannot deny the benefits of splashing and felt I would have been remiss to not make sure you had the full scope of options...

Yes I tested un-equipping a shield on my buddies DoS Paladin again last night & pulling out a 2-hander just to verify that indeed you still get the other DoS benefits without the shield though his AC did drop a huge amount (the guy I tested it on has both DoS & US with shield mastery & impr Shield mastery & Tower Shield). Of the feats options you have to meet the requirements for DoS-1 SM makes the most sense to me. Our DoS plays Defense with threat tanking though now I would like to maybe help him drop Tower Shield (after reading that you can use UMD to master's touch a Tower Shield) and pick up at least one more Offensive feat.

If you can, post a revised char builder & lets look at the enhancements after fitting in DoS to see if you can keep the core DPS enhancements you want in there. The guy I was on is pure tank (my buddy doesn't like to multi-task like I do) and took only the barest minimum of the smite lines (only minimum DoS requirements) because he exclusively uses Intolerant Blow (which also consumes smites) instead of smites at in the Epic Levels. It would be interesting to see how much of the smite line you can get and what flexibility you have after taking DoS-III. He has the 'Endless Lay on Hands' (LoHs regenerate every 2:24 secs which is twistable) so having fewer LoHs may be an option and even if you had less toughness your Hit Points will likely still be significantly ahead of your previous build due to DoS +6 Con & +20% HPs (DoS can be a big bag of HPs).

[Ralmeth]

In general, your build looks good. I would consider picking up points into balance. It can hurt pretty bad when a mob trips you and it take a long while to get back up. If you stay DPS focused then you could put your intimidate points into balance instead.

Having said that, IMHO, when you get your Paladin to high level I think it best to play to a Paladin's strength and go DoS with the ability to go THF DPS or go S&B and tank. However it is difficult to build a DoS with only a 28 point character and generally I wouldn't recommend it. So again your build looks fine as a DPS focused character.

As for prestige classes, I highly recommend going Hunter of the Dead for the first 15 levels or so. Once you get higher level, you can think about switching to KoTC for all of the devils you'll be going up against.

[TheWired]

Here is the build with DoS, I dropped Charisma I and II to fit in 3 tiers of extra LoH. I think 3 more LoH uses is a lot better spent AP compared to 1 cha modifier. I don't know a lot about paladins though so maybe its a bad choice.

About balance, I wish I could fit more points into that but I like having the option to intimidate even if im only a dps, maybe a balance item will help if I have room for one.





Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 342
Spell Points: 260
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 13
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 5
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 2 7
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 4
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 5 27
Jump 3 7
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 7
Tumble 0 0
Use Magic Device 5 15

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

[Nodoze]

I agree with Rainmeth that Balance is very important and didn't notice it was missing or would have also pointed that out. Personally even as US with "Steadfast" (can't be knocked down) I might still max Balance in case I had to get out of "Standing Against the Tide" stance for some reason. Personally I would unlock or buy 32 point builds before doing EEs and fit in Balance.

I also took a stab at Enhancements for you trying to keep "apples to apples" on Enhancements (except I did do 32 point build and did max Balance) so that we could see the net benefits/trade-offs by swapping KotC-III for DoS-III. In my head I knew that a FotW DPS Paladin going DoS over KotC was worthwhile but wanted to put it on paper to quantify it:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Pal_DPS_DoS
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 362
Spell Points: 260
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 15
Will: 15

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24 25
Dexterity 8 10 10
Constitution 16 19 19
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 8 10 10
Charisma 16 19 21

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 0 11
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 3 8
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 5
Heal -1 0
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 7 28
Jump 3 13
Listen -1 0
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 1
Search 0 1
Spot -1 0
Swim 3 7
Tumble 0 1
Use Magic Device 5 16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III


Note: With 32 points taking 10 int allows you to max UMD, Intimidate & Balance (with some jump) and puts you only a (fairly easy to aquire)+3 tome & Feat Swap/LR away from getting Combat Expertise in case you find yourself going "Tank mode" most of the time for your guild/party (or just because you prefer it like my buddy does !).

Assuming you go FoTW for DPS as your Epic Destiny, essentially swapping KotC-III for DoS-III with the above enhancements nets you the following:
+3 to hit (+ 6 Sacred Strength) everything (though net -1 verses EOs compared to KotC);
+3 damage all the time verses +14ave vs EOs;
+5% damage for 20secs 5/day from Human AB Damage II;
+5 Constitution (didn't spend 4AP on human greater adapt con due to tightness);
+20% Hit Points (on top of the above constitution gain);
+3 Saves (sacred bonus from Dos-III);
+Aura +3 saves to Party (net +6 saves for you stacking with DoS-III);
+Aura +2 saves Fear Party (net +4 personal from prior build);
+Aura +3 AC for Party(bulwark-III);
+Aura +3 Concentration for Party (Focus-I);
+ four 20 second +5 AC action boosts per rest;
+Group Buff: Magic Circle against Evil (+2 deflection/saves vs Evil) and warded against control;
+Group Buff: Mass Sheild of Faith (+5 deflection AC);
+Glorious Stand Self Buff: 30secs/3min cooldown: DR/20epic & reduced elemental & nagative energy & X2 healing & immune to Vorps, Wounding, etc…;
=SAME LoHs as DoS gives +1 LoHs & I didn't take LoH-III;
- Minus 40 Spell Points for losing EoTemplar-II;
- Move 10% slower;
- you will have 3 fewer smites & your smites will have a 3 second cool-down instead of 2 seconds (you have to pop adrenaline between smites anyway) but otherwise should do the same damage & crit as hard and essentially as often as, besides the cool-down, the only difference between Exalted Smite III & IV is 1 in the critical threat range & FoTW Adrenaline Overload adds +16 so the net is +17 instead of +18 (in addition to weapon crit range & improved crit) & so you should auto-crit essentially as often;
- In DPS mode you have a wasted feat for Shield Mastery that could have been Maximize or something else on a KotC but do gain options and survivability you didn't have before...
edit:
- I forgot you also lose Censure Demons but frankly I don't use it on my KotC on Epic content and don't know anyone who does.
=? KotC supposedly bumped up your auras Fear saves benefits even further than standard Courage-II but I am not sure how to quantify it. Still likely very close to break even for you and maybe breakeven for party with +3 overall saves;
=? KotC did give +4 saves against "spells and effects produced by Evil Outsiders" so DoS saves might be close to a wash against EOs (but gain against everything else)...

On top off all the above, if the dung hits the fan (or the party needs a tank), you can drop your 2H weapons and equip a Bastard Sword & Tower Shield (assuming you UMD or someone casts Master's Touch with Tower Shield after your last rest) and go pure Turtle Mode gaining:
+ A ton of AC;
+ A ton of PRR;
+ Bastard Sword is only -4 to hit and still gets doublestrike & THF glancing blows/effects/cleaves;
+75% Threat so even with less DPS you will likely cause more threat;
+ and if you know your party needs a tank ahead of time, you can switch your ED from FotW to US and be be a pretty close to the best physical tank out there !!! (even without resetting your enhancements);

I didn't see your post until just now when I came to put mine (been working on it offline for you). Since DoS gives you LoHs dropping your last tier and you end up the same... If you really like LoHs you can twist them to regenerate and I think by twisting them you gain another one to three LoHs so you could drop another one and still end up even/ahead in the long run compared to your initial build...

Lastly, the above isn't exactly what i would recommend for a FotW DoS DPS Paladin as, for example, I would likely at least fit in Human Adapt-III or even IV to make the Adrenaline Smites totally over the top damage ! I did the above as "apples-to-apples" as possible to give you (and me) a quantified feel for true net benefit/trade-offs of trading KotC for DoS on a "DPS FotW Paladin".

[TheWired]

Didnt know DoS gave LoH per tier, doesnt say it in my planner. I can always TR once I get some gear to add in balance and get some healing amp, since I dont have 32 point builds.

I dropped tier II and III of LoH and got Human Boost III

[Nodoze]

Didnt know DoS gave LoH per tier, doesnt say it in my planner. I can always TR once I get some gear to add in balance and get some healing amp, since I dont have 32 point builds.

I dropped tier II and III of LoH and got Human Boost IIIIt is hard to do everything on a 32 point Pure Paladin & with a 28 pointer something has to give... One day you will hopefully unlock 32 point builds and then you can use a Greater Heart to reincarnate & upgrade to 32 points. In the meantime, if I was focusing on DPS/FotW and not going US or planning on tanking often I would maybe drop Intimidate on a first lifer 28 pointer for Balance... It makes your Tank mode less viable but you are focused on DPS anyway... That being said you may be OK if you keep a balance item slotted and aren't running your dungeons on Elite (personally I usually slot a max +balance item AND max the Balance skill (especially when only at half ranks)).

According to DDOwiki, DoS Tiers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Defender_of_Siberys_enhancements) give:

- Dos-I: 2 additional Turn attempts, additional armor class when blocking with a shield, increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields by 1 (plus a bunch of other stuff and stance);

- Dos-II: one additional LoH and further increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields and heavy armor by an additional 1 (plus stance & other stuff);

- Dos-III: This prestige enhancement increases the strength of all of your defensive auras (?not sure how to quantify this?), and further increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields and medium or heavy armor by an additional 1.. (plus stance & other stuff)...

I just logged in and verified that the actual DoS enhancements on our tank paladin pretty much matches verbiage-wise so looks like you only get +1 LoH from full DoS line (which is why I only dropped LoH-III to be apples-to-apples);

According to the Paladin wiki page (http://ddowiki.com/page/Paladin) they only get 1 LoHs natively per rest... Looking at our 21 DoS-III US he has five LoHs which I think are broken out as follows:

+1: Initial LoH;
+2: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II Enhancements (3AP total);
+1: DoS-II;
+1: Unyielding Sentinel (http://ddowiki.com/page/Unyielding_Sentinel) ED: Endless lay on hands-I (of III & 'twistable') gives +1 LoH & now LoHs regenerate at a rate of 1 LoH per 3 mins;
===
5 LoH Total (& LoHs regenerate at a rate of 1 LoH per 3 minutes);

Note: He could put two more ED-APs into Endless Lay on Hands to get to III which will give 2 more LoHs and have them regenerate 20% faster (giving him 7 total LoHs with 1 regenerating every 2:24secs). He probably won't though as he typically has a dedicated healer (me or another buddy if I am not there) and thus 5 that regen is likely fine...

Regarding your enhancements, with the above in mind & considering you are focusing on FotW DPS, I would likely do the following:

- Drop Paladin Exalted Smite IV (loses 1 crit range but FotW Adrenaline gains 16 crit range);
- Drop Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I (4 AP isn't worth if considering DPS focus & huge HP gains from DoS);
- Drop Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III (but keep II for net neutral total LoHs);

+ Take Enhancement: Human Versatility II;
+ Take Enhancement: Human Versatility III;
+ Take Enhancement: Human Versatility IV;
+ Take Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II (not sure what to do with the extra 2 AP otherwise);

Note: taking Paladin Toughness II allows you to drop Paladin Divine Righteousness I but having a hate increase button isn't a bad idea (especially if you swap Intimidate for Balance) & I don't see a better way to spend the APs;

[TheWired]

Still think ill stick with intimidate, if balance becomes a real problem then there are ways to fix it later on. Since the build seems pretty solid ill go with DoS 2HF.

Thanks for all the input

[Nodoze]

Still think ill stick with intimidate, if balance becomes a real problem then there are ways to fix it later on. Since the build seems pretty solid ill go with DoS 2HF.

Thanks for all the inputVery cool. Glad to have helped. It was fun to figure it out for sure rather than be a gut feel that DoS is better than KotC for many builds.

[Tulsa_Doom]

Fury of the wild and Defender are not compatible. Basically you cant rage while in the last stance. Cant rage cant adrenaline. So while I agree Fury is the best destiny for a DPS pally you have to go Kotc or Hunter for prestige.