Tie Arcane sphere with Primal and Divine

[Vellrad]

Hello, I think, map should look like that:

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b459/vellrad/mapa.jpg

And, when added, 3rd destiny in Divine sphere should be also linked with Fury, so each sphere is linked with each sphere.

[Saravis]

Agreed, but with a minor change.
Fury of the Wild should connect to the melee sphere, being that it is a melee destiny.
Heck, FotW is meant for barbarians which are classified as melee.

However, its unlikely they'll change it to make sense. They have to sell those scissors after all. This whole destiny seems reeks of nickle and diming.

[Vellrad]

Agreed, but with a minor change.
Fury of the Wild should connect to the melee sphere, being that it is a melee destiny.
Heck, FotW is meant for barbarians which are classified as melee.

However, its unlikely they'll change it to make sense. They have to sell those scissors after all. This whole destiny seems reeks of nickle and diming.

I agree, but out of some random decision, SC is tied with LD. Don't ask me why, but I think they won't untie them both.

[legendlore]

I agree and I've been thinking about posting a similar thread but with a twist.

I would like if they tied the spheres together with a pair of bridgeing destinies. I was disapointed that casterlevel gain wasn't universal in the different spheres and adding "inbetween" destinies could help with this.

Mystical theurge (gains both divine and arcane casterlevels) would be an obvious choice for the divine-arcane bridge. Primal-arcane is less obvious but both Neuromancer (nature focused arcane caster, kind of an arcane druid) and Harper agent (often described as mixes between bard and ranger) would fitt.

[CaptainSpacePony]

This is one way to skin this cat. There are others, but bottom line is the cat is currently overdressed.

[Habreno]

This is one way to skin this cat. There are others, but bottom line is the cat is currently overdressed.

LOL. Wow, nice.

[QuantumFX]

I’d like to see the rotated counter clockwise one slot as well. Magister makes more sense to bridge with martial as it implies training. Fatesinger should be the bridge destiny to the Divine sphere as bards cast divine spells. Draconic should bridge via Primal Avatar. Lastly, Shiradi Champion should bridge the primal and divine spheres. (You're hitting up a divine being for most of your abilities.)

[legendlore]

I’d like to see the rotated counter clockwise one slot as well. Magister makes more sense to bridge with martial as it implies training. Fatesinger should be the bridge destiny to the Divine sphere as bards cast divine spells.
Can't agree with this, bards are a pure arcane caster class, no more divine than an wizard/sorcerer casting "Night shield" (also shared by both divine and arcane casters). Remember it's the casting class that determines the spell type, there are no Divine or arcane spells per se.




Draconic should bridge via Primal Avatar.
Could make sense, Primal is a bit of an odd sphere, many classes can fit in it, nature domain clerics for sure and as you say Draconic. While dragons generally are to proud to be divine casters and usually are arcane casters (and Primal is kind of Divine focused as in Druids/rangers "Gaia" focus). Dragons in Eberron could be argued to essentially be "Gaia" as they created the world. So bridging the Primal-Arcane sphere might be a good fit.




Lastly, Shiradi Champion should bridge the primal and divine spheres. (You're hitting up a divine being for most of your abilities.)
Could make sense but it could be argued the other way just as likely, Shiradi champions seems to be binding their fate and borrowing powers from the Shiradi (fey form etc. indicates that this is the 4e variant not the earlier editions of Eladrin/Shiradi), there is already a class that does this, the Warlock (classed as an arcane caster) that binds to the evil side (devils) instead of the good. Generally only gods and half-gods can grant divine casting, though Eberron is a bit different since a divine casters ability to cast could be fueled by the worshipers own belief in their gods (even if they're non existent).

[QuantumFX]

*snip*

I’m pretty flexible on Draconic/Fatesinger/Primal/Shiradi bridges. I think my biggest complaint is that thematically Fatesinger and Shiradi are currently the worst bridge destiny decisions.

And, yes, I’m using the progenitor dragons as the basis for the primal sphere. 2 of the 3 compose the planet our characters live on and they don’t produce very many clerics. (Incidentally, I was thinking the future cleric E.D. would probably be a good bridge to primal) Also Dragons tend to be associated with various elements. And, other than fire and domain bonus spells, elemental magic is what arcane and primal are all about.

Fatesinger just got pointed over to divine because it has more in common with it. Wizards and Sorcs can’t cast cures. Fate/Destiny is the domain of divine magic. (Luck bonuses are few and far between and they all seem to be divine spells.)

Though, (Considering the bard/fatesinger’s “jack of all trades” aspect for a minute.) if we ever got an Artificer destiny, I think it would be an awesome decision to make Fatesinger a “Bridge all” destiny.

[legendlore]

I’m pretty flexible on Draconic/Fatesinger/Primal/Shiradi bridges. I think my biggest complaint is that thematically Fatesinger and Shiradi are currently the worst bridge destiny decisions.
Shiradi I can agree with, but Fatesinger with it's bard heritage has a pretty strong history of martial-arcane mixed play style. Some more than others, Warchanters for example stops gaining spells in pnp and entirely focuses on their martial aspect. In ddo with the very limited spell selection bards have, they have to focus on a martial aspect to be able to deal damage, so the link is stronger here than in pnp I'd say.

For me it's easier to see a connection to primal than divine, there are plenty of bard prestige's that focuses on the primal aspects, such as Stormsinger, Seeker of the song and as I mentioned above Harper agents are somewhat ranger focused.

Then there's also the bards draconic heritage, being spontaneous casters just like sorcerers and in Eberron being linked to the dragon songs it somewhat draws them in the same path towards primal as the Draconic destiny as was discussed in the previous post.



Fatesinger just got pointed over to divine because it has more in common with it. Wizards and Sorcs can’t cast cures. Fate/Destiny is the domain of divine magic. (Luck bonuses are few and far between and they all seem to be divine spells.)
Well to be fair all domains are divine (since only divine casters use them) even Magic domain that uses classic arcane spells such as Magic missile etc.

Bards do use luck spells however (luck just doesn't seem to be a system that ever took of that greatly in dnd), Improvisation is a level 1 luck based bard spell, Insight of good fortune a level 2, Unluck level 3 and Ruin delvers fortune a level 4. All bard spells and there are likely more, these are just some of the top of my head.



Though, (Considering the bard/fatesinger’s “jack of all trades” aspect for a minute.) if we ever got an Artificer destiny, I think it would be an awesome decision to make Fatesinger a “Bridge all” destiny.
hm, maybe. I guess it's mostly the divine connection I object on with bards, since they draw their magical power from music/dragons not any gods (even though they can heal) and thus can't be affected by Quell for example.


PS; hope I'm not derailing the thread. I just find it an interesting discussion and the spheres connections aren't always so clear, especially with flexible classes such as bards/Fatesinger.

[Lilliana]

Hello, I think, map should look like that:


And, when added, 3rd destiny in Divine sphere should be also linked with Fury, so each sphere is linked with each sphere.

I agree and support this suggestion.
Nice picture btw.