Max Number of Lives for You?

[Ingemar]

I've never created a final character yet. I've heard about people saying they want 3 lives of this and 3 lives of that for the final version of the character, but each life becomes a bigger hassle to level. What is your personal limit on lives you are willing to go?

I used to think Barbarian was great first life, but that just adds one more life for what? 10 hp which really doesn't seem like a big enough deal if it means I have to take a character through 13 lives instead of 12 to the final life.

What's your experience? Is there a class that is a great overall class and you'd be willing to do an extra life to get?

[Enoach]

Keep in mind that TRng is not always someone going after the perfect build, but sometimes it is simply an enjoyment of the lower to mid levels, and sometimes it is a drive for bragging rights such as Completionist.

For me, a person that enjoys single class builds it is very dependent on how I want to play my character.

1. My Cleric - I went 4 Cleric Lives and have basically retired from the TR cycle - Currently enjoying Epic Destinies
2. My FvS - Currently on 3rd FvS life - Unsure where I want to go from here - Currently just enjoying Epic Destinies
3. My Paladin - Currently on 3rd Paladin life - Considering a 4th as I had lots of fun leveling him last life, however, in the meantime just waiting for a few 20th on raids
4. My Wizard - 1 Sorcerer Life and Currently working my 3rd Wizard Life. This is a debate - I think I would like to add another Sorcerer life and play around with the Sorcerer PrEs. However, with the change in the Enhancement system I'm unsure of how that will look or playout - such as if the other sorcerer PrEs come about. So for now, just enjoying Fate Point farming
5. My Test character - 1 Barbarian, 1 Bard, and 1 Artificer - Here I'm just not sure what direction I'm going to go. I'm debating another class such as Druid, but I spend very little time playing this one - It is more my go to character when there is nothing else to do.


I really do see TR'ng as more a personal choice and should be done because you see it as being a fun alternative.

[Nodoze]

My main focus play wise is our weekly get together with buds from PnP days decades ago. Outside those nights I can't play that much but want to have one of each of the many classes I like at the higher levels (& now try each Epic Destiny with some twists) so I tend to level up only once and not TR. Since I don't have one of each class at 20+ yet that is more of my focus during times when not focused on our party progression.

[Kinerd]

2 for casters (past life always wiz) or desperately multi-attribute builds (past life probably monk, because all my MADers are physical damage), 1 for everyone else.

I'm really, really, really glad I got my 3 wiz past lives done on my wizard before the challenge fiasco.

[nayozz]

it is more about the ride, not the final place...

i do not care about which life i am on currently (rogue) i just want to play a class with full tier 3 pre :/

i was:

1) fvs
2) cleric
3) wizard
4) ranger
now rogue

------
cleric radiant servant is very fun, also ranger arcane archer shiradi.
i plan to keep going reincarnating into a different new class that has a tier 3 pre if possible

(like sorceror, paladin, monk)

i would like to try a: wild mage, acolyte of skin...

[Kmnh]

2nd life rogue, 2nd life barb, 1st life fvs, 1st life bard, and a wizard parked at level 18 of its 4th life.

I don't like the way TRing forces you to run lots of boring content. If I could run only the quests that I enjoy, I would be all for it.

[xTethx]

Luckily I had the pleasure of getting all my "necessary" TR's over 2 years ago. But if it were me today, I'd say no past lives are necessary. Maybe just the 36 pt build. With that said casters would greatly benefit from 3 wizzy past lives. Those seem to be the most beneficial and give greatest incentive for 4 mil xp a life.

[Mastikator]

Personally I'm finding each life easier to level, I wanna get completionist before I settle, to know which class to settle on.

Pretty sure I'll never settle though, it's more likely that I'll just quit or something in some unforeseeable distant future.

[FrozenNova]

I never TR explicitly for the mechanical advantage. Some characters I'll TR because I'm just not playing them where they are right now. I would never farm past lives before dedicating myself to one build.

[Qhualor]

i play all melee toons, so im going after 3 lives that benefit my characters in that respect.

my main is a barbarian. out of all the past lives that i can get, i decided that 3 lives paladin and 3 lives monk was all i needed. ive already tr'd once into barb, so by end ill have 9 lives. currently on 3rd monk life and need 2 more pally lives before i go back to barb. should be another few months before i get back to 20 barb.

the rest of my characters will end up with 3 lives of monk and pally as well, but my ranger is also going to go 3 lives rogue. these past lives i feel are most beneficial to my characters and i would tr them also for 3 lives barb if the PL was better than 10 hp per life and maybe some of the other ones too if their PL feats were better.

i like more power for my characters, but i dont like the idea of spending months going for completionist, plus most of those past lives i wouldnt benefit from anyways. i do this because i play a time sink game and i want the best for my characters, even though EDs are enough today without feeling the need to TR.

tring can get annoying and tedious, but i keep thinking ahead and how much happier i will be with my characters when i finally get done. even though i want to rip my hair out sometimes or sigh everytime i start running low level content ive done a million times, i still try to find the fun in leveling. the good thing about tring into a class you have never played before, is that you can experience it and see if you like it. i tr'd once as a paladin and i had a lot of fun with it so much i want to start one from scratch, but not until im done with this tr train and have at least a 6 month break from sub 20 quests :)

[BossOfEarth]

I'm TRing very slowly but I'm enjoying the journey thus far. I started with Ranger to get my least-enjoyable class out of the way. But I found to my delight that Tempest Ranger was a ton of fun. I really enjoyed the self-healing melee aspect but I wanted more healing amp. So I went Paladin for the healing amp bonus and now I'm gearing up for my final Paladin life.

After Paladin x3 is complete I'm not sure what I'll do next. I'd like to do Artificer past lives to improve trap-monkey Ranger lives, but I want Ranger past lives to improve Artificer lives. :confused:

[Isolani]

I think I'm on my 12th life on my main atm. Have a few other 1st and 2nd TRs also. I would stop TRing except I have no idea what I would do for a final build if I did. I have capped a lot of different builds, but I get bored after a week or two of being level capped and start itching to TR again.

I'm not even doing it for the power increase anymore because it's pretty minimal really.

[Anthios888]

I agree with Teth. Past lives are cool, but not needed. There are a few ones that are really notiecable, but the rest are just little perks for leveling up again. I think that it can be nice to play through a TR, so you can always reincarnate a character again when you want to try a new build, and gain another feather in your hat along the way.

But if we're here to brag about our nerdiness:
bard with 3 fighter lives
monk with paladin life, 3 fighter lives, and 2 monk lives
favored soul with 3 wizard, 3 sorcerer, 1 cleric, and 2 favored soul past lives
favored soul with cleric and fighter past life
favored soul with 2 fighter and 1 rogue past life
Italicized characters I barely play anymore because there's too much to do in ddo! Quality > quantity

I did a lot of these grinds thinking that it would really make a difference, but most of the characters played nearly the same with or without the +3 to-hit or whatever. I don't regret anything, but I think it's wrong to tell someone at the beginning of the grind that they "need" to do any of this to be effective at endgame. Over time, you'll build a legendary character just on the reincarnations you feel like doing.

[sephiroth1084]

Depends strongly on what you want your final character to be.

For example, I was intending, eventually, to get at least 3 wiz lives on my wizard (currently 1 PL), and was contemplating at least 1 sorcerer, 1 cleric and 1 favored soul, but I doubt I'll ever get to that.

For my paladin tank, I have a paladin and a fighter life, and want at least another paladin and a barbarian life before getting back to paladin (pally for another 5% healing amp, and barbarian for the PL feat for +2 intimidate that basically doesn't use a feat slot--swap for Toughness and lose 7 HP).

Most of my other characters are fairly content with a single PL--my barb has 1 barb, my rogue has a rogue, my monk has a monk and a fighter (just because I wanted to try out a 12/8 split), and my archer has a ranger. If I felt up to it, I'd probably aim to get 2 more ranger lives for my archer, but it's not that important to me.

[Syllph]

I've been a power gamer since i can remember. I was that guy playing Dragon Warrior grabbing Erdrick's armor even when I didn't need it. I was that guy at level 99 on Final Fantasy II still hunting the pink puff and the pink tail for the best armor in the game (even though I could have slept through the final boss at that point.)

Point being, I love being over powered. For me I won't be happy till I have them all.

current life 27/40

[Shadow7375]

I only play two toons nowadays. Both are constantly tr'ing. I don't stay at cap very long. Sometimes a couple of days before I TR again, sometimes only an hour. All others are parked and putting on lots of dust for months already :-)

I enjoy the journey from 1 to 20 much more than being capped at the top. That's probably the main reason why I decided to keep tr'ing my two favorite toons. Another reason is that I wanted to play each class to cap at least once to see what they are like and to better understand them. To my surprise there were classes I thought I'd never enjoy but then actually did .. So that's a nice side effect.

On one of my toons I'm currently working my way up to completionist. Once that is done I'll have to see what I wanna do with him.

The other toon is my "blue bar" toon. Gonna go for cleric, sorcerer, FVS and wizard 3 lifes each and probably final life Wizard.

EDIT: Considering all the loot/gear available now in the game, I don't think it is necessary to have a whole bunch of past lives to be competitive at endgame anymore. Past lives for sure do add and help though. Best past life in my opinion is the Wizard one .. That's always a good one to have if you're playing a toon with a blue bar. Anyways, I gonna keep tr'ing :-)

[sirgog]

Paladin lives on melee tanks, fighter lives on tactical melees and a build-dependant mix of wizard, sorc or cleric lives on DC casters offer so much that they feel almost required if you are in any way oriented to optimizing your character. Completionist is ridiculously powerful too but those 12 lives don't offer much more than 3-4 tailored to your build.

Most of the rest offer much smaller bonuses that can be ignored, especially all the '+1 damage' type effects that just don't scale well with the higher player stats in MOTU. But the ones that make you 5% (or more) better at something really do add up. (Edit: Ranger lives add a lot to ranged toons too - forgot that)



Edit: Obviously true reincarnation seriously undermined playing alts for anyone that is even remotely oriented toward optimization.

[daikliave]

well i did 3 wizard lives then 1 life on each other class and now im back to being a wizard on my main toon.
i have 2 ranger lives on my bard for AA goodness

[SEMPER]

Well I have several characters that total up to 14 I believe

Only a handful have been tr'd though mainly because I'm working on a completionist and a X 12 Caster

Brai - is on life 9 or 10 I believe towards Completionist - just cleric/rogue/arti left to do

Cemp - is on life 12 thats 3 sorc / 3 wiz / 3 cleric / 3 Fvs - will soon be a Sorc again ;)

Brei - is on his 3rd life / all fighter

Motion is on his 3rd life / rogue / Ranger / Paladin

Savurselv is on his 2nd life / Cleric / Fvs

Semper is on his 2nd life / Wizzard / Sorc - will be more sorc when I Tr Brai again and Cemp is done

Brey is on his 2nd life / Ranger / Monk - still debating where I will end him he's currently lvl 12 on his monk life

[Munkenmo]

My main character munkenmo has done

3barb, 3fighter, 3paladin, 3monks.

I'd trade them all for 3 arti lives, the +3 umd would make a bigger difference to how he plays than all the others combined.

I'm currently working on a 3wiz, 3sorc, 3fvs, life toon that was going to be a sorc. Now it may be a fvs, or a wiz, heck maybe a druid.

Destinies have made TR bonuses so negligble though, that it's not worth it unless you're going to have fun doing it.

[Vint]

Destinies have made TR bonuses so negligble though, that it's not worth it unless you're going to have fun doing it.

This is how I feel. Heifer, currently has

3 wiz
2 sorc
1 (FS, Barb, Fighter, Ranger, Paly, Rogue, Monk)

Still have arti, bard, cleric and druid. If I get too bored, I will not do them or I may do two of each. I am not playing this toon to be OP uber, I do it for the fun of leveling.

[luvirini]

My main wizard has 2 wizard past lives, will likely do one more wizard at some point.. currently focusing on epic destinies.

My monkarcher has currently a monk and a ranger past life, would benefit from more ranger past lives, but bleh..

My completionist-to-be is on life 10 of 13.. after completionist likely will run "fun" lives.. no special plan on that one.

Others are first life
- The sorcs are powerful enough on first life, so no need.
- the bard is good enough utility character
- might TR the paladin at some point
- have not touched my cleric before mabar since motu and she will likely go back to not being played after
- my three other wizards will maybe be TRed some day in the far future into something...

[Whitehairguy]

Until I get bored of TRing, which I don't foresee happening anytime soon. I was going to stop at 2x wizard PL's on my wizard when MOTU came out, but disliked the MOTU content so much I decided I'm going to add more caster oriented lives until I get bored of that. Then who knows what I'll do. Play a melee? ;(

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I'm slowly slogging through a completionist on my WF sorc. I'd previously done the 3 wizard lives and back to sorc.

On my spare sorc that I'm running high level content on, I did the three wizard past lives and then switched over to sorc.

On my other characters, I've been doing at least two tr's of some kind to get to 36 point builds, and that's been enough my purposes.

[Drekisen]

Four lives for me...all wizard...I am a purest...I feel like it's cheating to do other classes......plus my last life was pretty much it for me because well.....

I'm a bit burnt out on this game LOL...I was a completionist before F2P came out LOL...meaning I had multiple toons and all classes capped a long time ago....so for someone playing the game 6 years almost.....doing 1-20 is excruciating at this point.....so I retired all my characters but my PM....had 17 capped and a few others.....and just concentrated on doing these 4 lives. I will never TR again unless they make more free stacking past life feats for wizards....and the other classes too of course...not for me but to be fair for everyone else :D.

My opinion on the matter is obviously a bit jaded.....for someone who is still fresh to the game I say go for all the lives you want until you can't stand grinding to 20 anymore...just plan it out first.....and set you goals small to start out with....something like completionist can be a long ride depending on the resources and people you have available to you.

[karsion]

I've never created a final character yet. I've heard about people saying they want 3 lives of this and 3 lives of that for the final version of the character, but each life becomes a bigger hassle to level. What is your personal limit on lives you are willing to go?

I used to think Barbarian was great first life, but that just adds one more life for what? 10 hp which really doesn't seem like a big enough deal if it means I have to take a character through 13 lives instead of 12 to the final life.

What's your experience? Is there a class that is a great overall class and you'd be willing to do an extra life to get?

Actually each life becomes less of a hassle to complete as you become familiar with the quests and learn how to do them more efficiently and faster. But I have to agree that considering the amount of time it takes to an average player and the rewards TRing is a waste of time compared to ED grinding. Unless of course you enjoy the way from 1 to 20.

My main is on his 9th now, having done all the melee lives (except bard) and wizzy. Ultimately he is going fro 15(did paladin twice) but I had a blast running as a monk so can't exclude repeating.

My arti is on his second ranger life and I have absolute blast with playing arti/something hybrid so will be TRing him until I stop playing.

Rolled a monk and would like to get him all melee lives so it may be similar situation as with arti.

My arcane is on her second and would like to ultimately get her all caster lives (except of druid's cause it sucks) but don't think I will manage.

2 other toons are epic and one is enaring 20 but I am not planning to TR them in a foreseeable future.

[R0cksteady]

Epic Destinies make pastlives unimportant. And since I prefer endgame to leveling, I don't TR too much.

But I would say Wizards, Sorcs or divines that focus on DCs and spell pen should take a Wizard life or 2. Fighter past lives used to be great for melees since tactical feat DCs were good to stack up on, but now they're so easy to get high that it's not needed anymore.

Maybe a life or 2 for monks to get more build points (My monk will probably get TRed twice to geta fighter and a monk pastlife and 36 points).

[Nodoze]

I can also see TRing for a different Race. For example, back when I unlocked Drow but still only had 28pointers I did some drow characters but now wish some of them were human or Half-Elves. There will likely also be some things I want to try when the Enhancement passes finally drop with racial trees.

In general getting a 34points and at a good PL bonus would make TRing and releveling better than leveling up a new 1-20 character just to get a different race. That being said, if they offered a way to change race in the store I would probably take it over re-leveling...

[Gremmlynn]

One so far. I might TR a character I don't play at some point if I get the urge to try a new flavor and character slots don't happen to be on sale.

[BeccaBop]

I've never created a final character yet. I've heard about people saying they want 3 lives of this and 3 lives of that for the final version of the character, but each life becomes a bigger hassle to level. What is your personal limit on lives you are willing to go?

I used to think Barbarian was great first life, but that just adds one more life for what? 10 hp which really doesn't seem like a big enough deal if it means I have to take a character through 13 lives instead of 12 to the final life.

What's your experience? Is there a class that is a great overall class and you'd be willing to do an extra life to get?

For a character I like, the limit is "the total amount of benefit I can get." My main has 24 past lives, since that's the most I can benefit from. I did 1 of each life, 3 of all casters, and 3 of barb. Yes, for 20 HP. I am very happy with Lazertron. If I'm going all out on a character, I'm going all out. Otherwise I just do whatever. My bard has 2 bard past lives, which is useless. But I like him anyway.

[Drekisen]

Actually each life becomes less of a hassle to complete as you become familiar with the quests and learn how to do them more efficiently and faster.

It's not that it's a hassle or hard to do.......it's that it's time consuming and boring on top of it.

Repetition is nice to hone your skills......but by a certaing amount of lives your literally committing mental suicide.

[Such755]

As said before, TRing is not alway for the benefit of PL but for the fun.
That said, have 4 toons:
1 completionist in progress, on life #4 as paladin, stopped playing him since I want a break from melee and a chance to work on my caster (see below).

1 wizard in progress, the first idea was to make an ultimate sorc (Almost, all but completionist) with ultra high DC (For a sorc) but I dropped that idea to make the ultimate wizard. Currently enjoying capping my epic destinies (25 levels done so far, really enjoying the progress) and collecting all the end game gear (Rare epics like torc and demon consort bracers, teir 3 alchemical weapons...). I want those things to be over with, then it's another 2 wizard, 2 sorc (Already done one), 3 fvs and 3 cleric for maximum casting abilities, and then back to wizard.

1 first life artificer who I realized is much stronger than I thought, and has an extreme potential for fun and usefulness thanks to the new epic destiny system. Will probably TR him twice more, next life ranger and last life artificer again (For somewhat better to-hit and more important, to unlock 36 build).

1 cleric made for Mabar (Well he was made for casting, but failing that I let him go, and LR him for mabar.) will TR him after mabar is over, and spec him for offensive casting. Everyone needs one cleric, for the greater good of your guild :P


I think TRing has no limit, because after you get tired of the same end game content you can simply TR and go through the same proccess, only stronger \ different classs or whatever.

[SirValentine]

Epic Destinies make pastlives unimportant.


Hmmm...I have a hard time seeing +9 to Spell Pen as unimportant, or +5 to DCs, etc..

How many and which past lives you want to spend time on is very build-dependant and personal grind-tolerance-dependant. However, EDs or not, PLs still have huge benefits for some builds.

[Juduss]

Jumping on the "do it while it's fun" bandwagon. Currently working on a long-term cleric project. Just going to keep on TRing until I'm done, or burn out ;) Essentially I set out a path for myself where each pastlife I earn will benefit both the next lives & the final, so that should I grow tired of the process I can skip the rest of the past lives and go to the final. But as I enjoy leveling more than end-game currently TRing for me is where it's at.

All that being said, I have to agree with most that if leveling isn't fun for you, the gains are small enough (except perhaps for wizzy spell pen) to be not worth the "hassle."

[beilschmidt]

One of my toons will have different kinds of past lives because I want to try other classes. Meanwhile I'll play the same classes on other toons because sometimes I miss playing low/mid-level quests by that class.

[Fefnir_2011]

I'm currently sitting at:

Cleric with 1 Cleric and 1 FvS past life
Wizard with 2 Wizard and 1 Sorc past life
TRing Wizard with 1 Ranger and 1 FvS past life (will be FvS again one day)
Fighter with 1 Fighter past life
first life Rogue
first life Bard

All after about a year and a half of playing. I TR because I get sick easily of the end game grind, and TRing hasn't stopped being fun yet. I'd like to get wizard PLs for all my casters, sorc past lives for my divines, and at least get to 36 point build on all my melees eventually.

But, considering my fastest TR was 3 weeks with the Stone of XP, and I more commonly take 2-3 months to get through a TR with my life schedule, I expect this will happen shortly before the heat death of the universe.

[Talonaise]

Hmmm...I have a hard time seeing +9 to Spell Pen as unimportant, or +5 to DCs, etc...

I agree, In epic, and especially epic elite, every little bit counts. It also depends on the build. There are some I would not bother with anything beyond 2, but others I have put a ton of extra lives on. I have a completionist fvs, with 3 sorc, 3 wiz and 3 fav soul lives. My casters all are tripled up or working on them.

As for the grind not being worth it, again that depends. I have always TRd with my friends. I have spent many lives with Lando, Dark, Cetus, Gath and Ganja among others. That is what made it fun, the people around me. It didn't matter if we were playing end game or not.

I love the new leveling xp mainly because it has forced me to go back to quests I have not played in years, because that fist time bonus is so sweet.

My Main Toons
Kitraine - 25 fvs - Completionist , 3 wiz, 3sorc, 3 favs (all epic destinies complete)
Azlix - 25 cleric - 2 cleric past lives
Incindia - 23 sorc - 3 wiz, 3 sorc past lives
Krestal - Palemaster - 3 wiz, 3sorc, working on 3rd fav soul
Talonaise - 25 Rogue - 1 pally, 1 rogue past life
Squeaker -22 Barb - 1 barb past life
Veloxx - 20 Ranger - ranger past life
TheClerik - cleric - working on 2nd cleric past life

And a variety of 1st/second life toons beyond this.

Remember, if you are not having fun, either end game or leveling, don't do it. This is just a game and in the long run it doesn't matter.

[Kinerd]

Hmmm...I have a hard time seeing +9 to Spell Pen as unimportant, or +5 to DCs, etc..

How many and which past lives you want to spend time on is very build-dependant and personal grind-tolerance-dependant. However, EDs or not, PLs still have huge benefits for some builds.It's not so much that they are literally unimportant as that their benefit/cost ratio is dramatically, embarrassingly, astoundingly behind EDs. It's easy to say "I'll just get +9 Spell Pen from past lives!" but when you're grinding out 18-20 on a TR2 for the fifth time, it's even easier to move over to the "screw getting 6 past lives" camp. (It's also worth pointing out that the only DCs you can get +5 to are Evocation and Conjuration, and that's with Completionist. You get [with Completionist!!] +2 to Necromancy.)

As a short version, "unimportant" suffices.

[Sarnind]

my opinion, for a very good character u need minimun 9 past life, melee 3 monk, 3 fighter ,3 paladin. Caster 3 wizzy, 3 fvs, 3 sorc.

[Drekisen]

I'm currently sitting at:

Cleric with 1 Cleric and 1 FvS past life
Wizard with 2 Wizard and 1 Sorc past life
TRing Wizard with 1 Ranger and 1 FvS past life (will be FvS again one day)
Fighter with 1 Fighter past life
first life Rogue
first life Bard

All after about a year and a half of playing. I TR because I get sick easily of the end game grind, and TRing hasn't stopped being fun yet. I'd like to get wizard PLs for all my casters, sorc past lives for my divines, and at least get to 36 point build on all my melees eventually.

But, considering my fastest TR was 3 weeks with the Stone of XP, and I more commonly take 2-3 months to get through a TR with my life schedule, I expect this will happen shortly before the heat death of the universe.

^ This OP

If your enjoying doing it......keep going...if you don't take a break from it.

I find the best way to cure boredom is doing something else for a while....anything really....not just playing another MMO...but anything to create abstinence.

.38 Special said it best...hang on loosely...but don't let go :D

To be graceful one must rememeber.......the timeframe and goals people make for themselves sometimes is not entirely optimal......and after all.....it IS just a computer game.....so long as noone is hacking your account and such.....what have you to lose......

Well....time of course........the real question is are you willing to spend whatever time you need to do what you're planning......observe the advice of others...but know the ones who can do it quickly are generally a tightknit group and select sect of players......you'll need to conform to that......somewhat at the least.

If time is an issue...maybe that is the topic you should be studying.

[LightInDark]

It takes me about 2-3 Months to get a life done. Will be going to completionist in about 10 years from now.

[Kareena]

I have 21 on my main. I MAY end up getting 2 more monk lives if I get bored enough- so that would be 24lives. Thats my max for her.



my opinion, for a very good character u need minimun 9 past life, melee 3 monk, 3 fighter ,3 paladin. Caster 3 wizzy, 3 fvs, 3 sorc.


Otherwise I generally agree with this ^

[Thrudh]

2 TRs is the sweet spot...

Get the 36 point build, and a couple of decent active past life feats (very few builds can fit in more than 1 or 2 active past life feats anyway).

Every life after the first two TRs offers very little benefit, basically just the passive past life bonus.

I have two more guys who still need one more TR each, and then all 6 of my characters will be double TRs on their third life.

One exception I make for this is my wizard, I will TR him 3 times for the +6 spell pen. I TRed him twice anyway, and he's fun to level, so I will do one more for him... I will not do 3 lives of FvS for another +3 spell pen though. Not worth it to me, and I already have a FvS, so leveling my wizard as a FvS will just be a chore, and I don't play games to "just get through them"

[Thrudh]

my opinion, for a very good character u need minimun 9 past life, melee 3 monk, 3 fighter ,3 paladin. Caster 3 wizzy, 3 fvs, 3 sorc.

This game is very easy, even on epic elite with a few past lives and solid gear. You will barely be able to tell the difference between a character with 1 monk and 1 paladin past-life and a character with 3 monk, 3 fighter, 3 paladin.

+2 damage from the 2 extra monk lives? Heh... No way you can spot that in the numbers rolling by, even if you're playing that character, and the people playing next to you certainly won't notice.

[Thrudh]

It takes me about 2-3 Months to get a life done.

Yeah, me too... that's why I'm not going for completionist ;)

Although technically, with 6 characters, each approaching 2 TRs each, I guess I could be pretty close to 1 completionist by now... But I'd rather have 6 very solid characters, all who play very differently (which means I never get bored), than one uber-character who I'd probably get bored with once I "finished" him.

[Thrudh]

It's not so much that they are literally unimportant as that their benefit/cost ratio is dramatically, embarrassingly, astoundingly behind EDs. It's easy to say "I'll just get +9 Spell Pen from past lives!" but when you're grinding out 18-20 on a TR2 for the fifth time, it's even easier to move over to the "screw getting 6 past lives" camp.

Exactly.... Once you have +6 spell pen, or +7 spell pen, and you notice that you pretty much NEVER fail getting past spell resistance, even on epic elite, suddenly the idea of grinding out two more FvS lives for basically no benefit will be less appealing to most people.

[Munkenmo]

This game is very easy, even on epic elite with a few past lives and solid gear. You will barely be able to tell the difference between a character with 1 monk and 1 paladin past-life and a character with 3 monk, 3 fighter, 3 paladin.

+2 damage from the 2 extra monk lives? Heh... No way you can spot that in the numbers rolling by, even if you're playing that character, and the people playing next to you certainly won't notice.

the difference between 1 paladin life and 3paladin lives was very noticeable.

it was the difference with my fists of light going from 2-5 to 3-6

also, you should try replying with multiple quotes in one post rather than replying with individual posts each time.

[landona54]

I tr'd way too much and still continue to do so, but people are willing to grind for end game gear, and then with the next update throw some of that gear away and start all over(Except the ESOS). Each tr is an improvement to your toon and if your willing to grind for the best end game gear, why not grind for the best complement of past lives to put that gear on. Each past life you complete on your toon is a permanent increase in the overall strength of that toon.

[Spartywinz]

I'm no star, that guy is a beast, but I am on life 29 at the moment.

To be honest, once I finished completionist it became a habbit, TR on an xp weekend, TR because a new update tweaked something or I wanted to tweak a build etc.

[Quickben1]

max number? no clue.
I have my main caster with 3 wizard, 3 sorceres, 3 fvs, 1 bard, and resting on his last (for now ) Wizard life. - planning for completionist erm..not so soon )
My melee is on her completionist path, at her 9th life till far, and enjoying leveling her up, so might continue for few more extra lives..depends the mood etc. After i am done, caster is going to follow the same path! Not even planning for the moment what i'll do and IF i do anything on my rest toons, because the path i planned will keep me busy for the next year at least. if not more....

QB

[trog_star]

Vio is currently on FvS life 2/3. already has 3 Wizard lives in the bank
my plan is heading back to wizard.

so that's a 7 life build

[Therigar]

I have to caveat this by saying that my experience is that there really is no need for even a single past life -- you can build a perfectly capable character able to do every level of content with just a first life. My first life monk, Tangledroots George, has never had any issues when part of a group at any time on any quest.

IMO the introduction of epic destinies has changed the equation regarding reincarnation and past lives. There is really a lot more benefit to having the right epic destiny running and the right twists active than there is to having multiple past lives. At least that is how I see it.

But, past lives do help to make characters stronger and there is absolutely nothing wrong with setting goals for builds that rely on past lives. Again, taking Tangledroots as an example, the build could benefit from 4 more build points and the innate benefits of past lives. And all of that is true even if I take epic destinies into account.

I have general plans for several characters that involve multiple past lives. I have an arcane archer plan that includes 3 each of fighter, monk, barbarian, paladin and ranger. I may never get there and I don't stress over how far along I am. But, that is the broad goal state.

I have general plans for a completionist character. I don't know why particularly, I just do.

Most of my characters are melee builds so multiple past lives of monk and fighter figure in as well as multiples of paladin and barbarian. See above with the arcane archer plan.

But, I don't work very hard on any of them. Maybe if I get with a TR group and we really dedicated ourselves to it. But, I'll go back to my initial caveat -- it isn't really needed so plans vs reality doesn't cause me much stress.

[Zorth]

Right now I have 2 Barbarian Past lives and the extra 20 hitpoints have saved my character from certain death(s).

I was once down to one hp and managed to win a fight. It is cool to go to one hp and live to tell about it! It is like Buck Feaver for Hunters.

7th in progress is a pure Fighter with past lives that are: 2 Fighter, 2 Barbarian, 1 Ranger, and 1 Paladin.

I have a solid melee base and next I will be entering the arcane aspect of the game.

Wizard next that can swing a Two Handed weapon and be effective because He will have 3 past lives of fighter.

[Ellihor]

On my caster (main) i have 3 wizards past lifes and 3 fvs past lifes (just finished now, but was waiting maabar end to TR). Next life will be the last and probably won't TR her again. I'm now waiting the ehancement pass to decide if i go drow or human. I was thinking about completionist, but the time i'd take to get it would help a lot more to construct a more powerful character if i stay at cap instead of grinding for completionist.
All my other characters i plan to do only 2 TRs. Currently on my mlee i have one ranger and i'm on barbarian life. Actually i'm waiting the enhancement pass to TR him and do the last life. My cleric is on 1st life, i plan to do one life of wathever and the final of cleric, only to take the 36pt.

[Ellihor]

On my caster (main) i have 3 wizards past lifes and 3 fvs past lifes (just finished now, but was waiting maabar end to TR). Next life will be the last and probably won't TR her again. I'm now waiting the ehancement pass to decide if i go drow or human. I was thinking about completionist, but the time i'd take to get it would help a lot more to construct a more powerful character if i stay at cap instead of grinding for completionist.
All my other characters i plan to do only 2 TRs. Currently on my mlee i have one ranger pl and i'm on barbarian life (capped). Actually i'm waiting the enhancement pass to TR him and do the last life. My cleric is on 1st life (capped), i plan to do one life of wathever and the final of cleric, only to take the 36pt.

[Deathdefy]

I'm on... 26; 27 after this life. The problem for me was/is that I'd constantly change the class I wanted to be my final build.

I wanted:
an uber pure Monk (necessitating at the time, to my mind, 3 x monk, 3 x fighter)
- leading me to discover the joys of ranged combat during a 6 ranger splash fighter PL, leading me to want -

a Helves' Angel (cue 3 x ranger),
- which is about when arti was released and I was just excited to check it out given I knew with my ranged PLs I'd
be okay. Sadly it was ridiculously fun, meaning I wanted -

a pure Artificer (cue 3 x sorc, 3 x barb, 3 x arti, 3 x wizard, 1 x rest for completionist),
- after which I loved sorc, but still wanted to go artificer.

Incidentally, I hated my first wizard life which was a Pale Master, but having done the math on artificer wands I discover it would be possible to hit a DC 47 web and DC 49 PK with 2 more Wiz PLs. So, I did another wiz life as a weird splash, and then started my current life to discover that my single favourite build in the game is -

a pure Wizard Archmage(cue my serious consideration right now of another 2 x fvs and 2 x cleric).


These days I'd approach many classes' final builds with less concern about PLs due to EDs. e.g.

Helves' Angel - 2 x anything non-caster to hit 36 points.

Monk - 1 x monk PL, 3 x fighter PLs.

Arti - 3 x sorc.

Rogue - 1 x rogue, 1 x barb.

Kensai - 3 x Fighter

Stalwart - 3 x Pal, 3 x Barb

Archmage - 3 x wiz, 3 x fvs, 3 x cleric, 3 x sorc, 3 x barb, completionist (which is why I don't really feel bad about wasting my main's useless Ranger and Fighter lives if I do end up as a wizard).

PM - 3 x wiz, 3 x FvS if even that. Maybe just 1 x wiz for the PL and 1 x barb or 2 x Wiz for the 36 point build if I didn't care about hitting EE spell pen marks.

FvS Evoker - 3 x Wiz, 3 x FvS, 3 x Sorc, (maybe 3 x Cleric + Completionist)

Most others - 2 x anything for 36 points; save Healbot Cleric of which I have one and am very happy with her performance as a 32 point build.

My point being that, for me at least, number of PLs is massively build dependent. Of particular note since the expansion are that, in my eyes, the marginal benefits of +1 damage and +2 ranged damage are utterly inconsequential in considering a character's final build.

[Gunga]

I like TRing. I'm on life 17 right now; completionist + 2 barb and 1 pali. After getting completionist, I thought I'd go for 3 Monk, 3 Fighter, 3 Pally and 3 Rogue to build a badass melee. I've really been liking the favored soul evoker build lately so I might flip those melee lives for 3 wizard, 3 sorc, 3 fvs, 3 cleric. We'll see.

To answer the question, though, I will definitely not do more than 40 lives. On one toon.

[brian14]

My ranger (bard splash) is the only character I ever TR'd, and she is on her third life -- likely final one. Currently she is level 8, past lives ranger and rogue.

My other toons are:

Pal 2/ Sorc 11 -- will definitely TR into artificer
Bard 21 -- probably will TR at some point, again into bard
Ftr 1/ Rog 15 -- rarely play, will be lucky to get to 20, let alone TR
Rgr 2/ Rog 3 -- aim for Rgr 14/ Rog 6, too soon to tell if worth TR'ing
Clr 4/ Rgr 3 -- mule, ironically won True Heart in lottery

[Carpone]

What's your experience? Is there a class that is a great overall class and you'd be willing to do an extra life to get?
If you want to reliably instakill epic elite Drow, then you need Wizard x3 and Favored Soul x3 for the +9 Spell Penetration.

If you're playing an Evocation focused divine character, then you want Sorcerer x3 and Wizard x1 for the +4 DC.

While not necessary, if I was playing a melee Warforged/Half-Orc then I would get Fighter x3 lives for the +3 to-hit (to offset racial Power Attack enhancements). The +3 DC to tactics is pretty sexy too especially on harder difficulties.

Classes I never want to do a past life for: Artificer, Druid, Bard. Both the passive and active benefits are terrible.

[Sarzor]

For my main, who was a sorcerer at the time, I originally thought "oh hey, I'll get ion my 3 wizzie lives and go back to sorc." So, I went Wizzie for two lives, then decided to keep my interest in the game I'd go on a tour d'class. So, went ranger, then favored soul, and now paladin.

For me TRing isn't about reaching the end class, so much as seeing more to the game than epic quests and such. There's so much more variety in the game.

I don't think I'll ever finish my character. I like to wander around. That being said, I'm doubtful I'll ever get completionist since there are certain classes I just don't think will be fun to play.

[arkonas]

honestly i will always tr a toon i have even if i hate it sometimes. I look at doing different classes trying different ideas. I hate bards, rogues, clerics and kind of artificers. i killed any toon i had i took to 20 with these classes. i just didnt care for them. now it doesnt stop me from doing a tr life with them if i need to get it done.

i say do it if you get tired of end game content and want to "relive" the old content on your toon.

[countfitz]

Since I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) Healing amp is still 'multiplicative' instead of additive, 3 Paladin Past lives are still worth it, they just make healing amp from the easier to get, higher level items EVEN BETTER.

But additive bonuses, like +1, 2 or 3 To Hit, or 10, 20 or even 30 HPs, or even 300 Spell points, just aren't worth it anymore, when it's so easy to have 3000 spell points of 1000 hit points, an extra 30 isn't worth the TR, IF YOU DON'T LIKE TO TR.

Personally, I always have a few toons in various TR states as a 'distraction' for when I'm tired of my main. Hell, my main was one of my TR alts, until he had more past lives/items/power than my main, who is currently TRing to catch up in power and items!

I have a cleric with three past lives, who can turn undead in droves in EE content (and usually gets the highest kill count in VoN 5 and the few other EE quests with large groups of undead) but since undead are fairly rare in high levels, that's fairly useless too.

Some arcanes still swear by the extra DCs from past lives, so those are still useful too I guess.

[akiraproject24]

Lets see 11 toons this is what ive accomplished so far

wizard-3 wiz, 3 FVS, 1 Cleric, 1 sorc
sorc -1 wizard, 1 cleric
pally -1 barb
rogue -1 ranger, 1 rogue
sorc -1 wiz (was building pl for druid but lost interest)
barb - 1 barb
barb -1 barb
arti - 1 fvs
fighter - 1 fighter
fvs - no past lives atm
monk - 1 rogue

basically I periodically TR'd a toon that lost its appeal due to game changes aka tempest str ranger was top dog until FR/kensai came out. Exception was my wizard with 8 pst lives I wanted max spell pen and better dcs. While most toons could benefit from 3 barb PL for 30 hp the weeks or months I will take to finish that life is not worth the 10 hp for me. I kinda just rework the toons when game changes break em or when Ive got no projects goin on and decide its time to get up to at least 36 pt build.

[SirValentine]

Exactly.... Once you have +6 spell pen, or +7 spell pen, and you notice that you pretty much NEVER fail getting past spell resistance, even on epic elite, suddenly the idea of grinding out two more FvS lives for basically no benefit will be less appealing to most people.

Not everybody plays an Elf Wizard. I won't have no-fail spell pen even after I get all 6 spell-pen-boosting past lives.

If others do play an Elf Wizard, and so can reach no-fail with fewer past lives, or are fine with failing due to spell resistance more often, sure, that's their choice. But that doesn't make spell pen unimportant, or negate that past lives are a way to increase it that can't be had any other way.

[Thrudh]

Not everybody plays an Elf Wizard. I won't have no-fail spell pen even after I get all 6 spell-pen-boosting past lives.

If others do play an Elf Wizard, and so can reach no-fail with fewer past lives, or are fine with failing due to spell resistance more often, sure, that's their choice. But that doesn't make spell pen unimportant, or negate that past lives are a way to increase it that can't be had any other way.

You'll have no-fail spell pen on 99% of the drow mobs in epic elite even with just +6 or +7 spell pen from past-lives, and some good epic destiny twists. Even as a non-elf.

There's nothing wrong with going for 100%, but the cost/benefit ratio is very very low.

That's all I'm saying... The cost/benefit ratio for many TRs are very low... 3 monk lives instead of 1... for +2 damage?

IF you enjoy TRing, that's fine... If it's grind to you, that's pretty silly way to play a game that's supposed to be fun.

[Lycurgus]

Exactly.... Once you have +6 spell pen, or +7 spell pen, and you notice that you pretty much NEVER fail getting past spell resistance, even on epic elite, suddenly the idea of grinding out two more FvS lives for basically no benefit will be less appealing to most people.

There is potential benefit, though. If you're already no-fail, an extra +3 frees up enhancements or possibly a feat. The effort may not be worth it for everyone, but that's not the same as there being no benefit at all.

[Deathdefy]

You'll have no-fail spell pen on 99% of the drow mobs in epic elite even with just +6 or +7 spell pen from past-lives, and some good epic destiny twists. Even as a non-elf.

There's nothing wrong with going for 100%, but the cost/benefit ratio is very very low.

That's all I'm saying... The cost/benefit ratio for many TRs are very low... 3 monk lives instead of 1... for +2 damage?

IF you enjoy TRing, that's fine... If it's grind to you, that's pretty silly way to play a game that's supposed to be fun.

Obfuscating stuff first:
-I think literally everyone in the thread agrees +1 damage from a Monk isn't worth the time and is not remotely analogous to the Spell Pen conversation.
-The subjective happiness benefits of unpleasant grinding of past-lives for a later pay-off is obviously up to the individual.

Re: Spell Pen.
Let's assume you are correct and reaching 99% EE drow Spell Pen breakage figures is possible with a non-elf and 3 Wizard PLs (plus maybe a FvS one as well) with just 'some good epic destiny twists'.

The spell pen twists are tier 3 (either from Magister or Draconic for spell pen +3, or Echoes:Magister from Fatesinger for +1 int, +2 spell pen).

That's giving up an entire tier 3 twist, when you could instead have totally freed up all of those Fate Points.

To illustrate the point, if a new class were introduced, which had a passive PL that when completed 2 or 3 PLs gave a bonus Tier 3 Epic Destiny Twist, it would be the most overpowered Past Life feat in the game by orders of magnitude.

If you care about a lot about Spell Pen, the Favored Soul Past-lives are worth serious consideration.

[Thrudh]

There is potential benefit, though. If you're already no-fail, an extra +3 frees up enhancements or possibly a feat. The effort may not be worth it for everyone, but that's not the same as there being no benefit at all.

Good point. That's very true...

[Thrudh]

Obfuscating stuff first:
-I think literally everyone in the thread agrees +1 damage from a Monk isn't worth the time and is not remotely analogous to the Spell Pen conversation.
-The subjective happiness benefits of unpleasant grinding of past-lives for a later pay-off is obviously up to the individual.

Re: Spell Pen.
Let's assume you are correct and reaching 99% EE drow Spell Pen breakage figures is possible with a non-elf and 3 Wizard PLs (plus maybe a FvS one as well) with just 'some good epic destiny twists'.

The spell pen twists are tier 3 (either from Magister or Draconic for spell pen +3, or Echoes:Magister from Fatesinger for +1 int, +2 spell pen).

That's giving up an entire tier 3 twist, when you could instead have totally freed up all of those Fate Points.

To illustrate the point, if a new class were introduced, which had a passive PL that when completed 2 or 3 PLs gave a bonus Tier 3 Epic Destiny Twist, it would be the most overpowered Past Life feat in the game by orders of magnitude.

If you care about a lot about Spell Pen, the Favored Soul Past-lives are worth serious consideration.

Yes, a reasonable case can be made for grinding out the extra FvS past lives.... BUT...

I'd rather just cast twice at the Drow Priestesses when I occassionally fail to penetrate their spell pen... Seems a lot easier to me than grinding out two more Fvs lives.

I'm not really any less effective at killing in epic elite just because 15% of the time against 2% of the mobs, I have to cast a spell twice.... :)

[DarkForte]

I'm not really any less effective at killing in epic elite just because 15% of the time against 2% of the mobs, I have to cast a spell twice.... :)
You're confusing viability with effectiveness. You're less effective due to having to cast twice. Obviously, you're still viable.

[Palantyr]

I’ve done way too many true resurrections at this point, mostly stacking lives that will benefit whatever particular character interned permanent class. I still think a 36pt build is worth chasing for any character; I’m not sure when it happens but after a certain number of true resurrections the 36pt build becomes the baseline when considering a characters build. With epic levels & destinies in particular though past lives aren’t anywhere near as noticeable for end game play, wizard and paladin past lives would be my choice of stacking lives if I was concerned about getting them for end game play. The completionist feat of course is also a welcome addition to almost any character at end game, but one thing I can say about that feat after running TRs with multiple personalities chasing after it is unless you actually enjoy all aspects of playing DDO there’s a good chance you’re setting yourself and friends up for some stretches of misery.

I’ve always enjoyed playing through a resurrection otherwise I would have never managed to finish what I have done, but in the post expansion game my take on true resurrections has changed a bit. TR’ing is just about the fun of playing DDO for me now, as opposed to chasing that little bit of extra power for my level capped builds. I don’t consider any character to have a final version anymore. It might strike my fancy to see how a melee druid would play on a character with a stupid amount of melee past lives/+4 tomes/raid loot or I might get the idea in my head it would be challenge to play a caster life on one of my characters who has been more melee focused and not kept anything caster related in his bank slots. I tend to keep at least one character TR’d so my options are open across the spectrum on content DDO offers, sometimes its fun to run forgotten realms epic elite and sometimes bring me the head of ghola fan might seem like the greatest adventure the day could offer.

[Dandonk]

In case noone has said this yet: You only live twice, Mr. Bond.

[SirValentine]

You'll have no-fail spell pen on 99% of the drow mobs in epic elite even with just +6 or +7 spell pen from past-lives, and some good epic destiny twists.


I might need you to give me a breakdown.

25 levels
8 feats
3 enhancements
6 twists
3 item
--
45 before past lives

6 past lives
--
51

So...what am I missing besides +3 more from past lives to push that 51 higher? Or, is 51 really no-fail on 99% of EE Drow?

Yes, arcanes get get more through EDs, and Sorc/Wiz more through Arcane Augmentation items, Elf Wiz through enhancments, and Bards through song buff & capstone, but those don't help a Cleric.

[Nitesco]

My three main first life characters can function in the hardest difficulty content, why would I waste any time TR'ing?

[Sarzor]

Other than a few classes (ie - Spell Pen if not makes one more viable, makes life much easier) for the most part TRing is for those now who enjoy it, not for those looking for big jumps in viability. Epic destinies and the new gear are so much more powerful than past lives, for the most part.

The two biggest reasons is see for people to TR are:
1) Get up to 36 point, which makes stat allocation easier/more powerful. This only requires TRing twice though.
2) They enjoy it.

[Ninety]

I don't have a max number of lives.

my main started as a pali when the level cap was 10.

got up to 20 when the level cap was available.

was kind of "meh" so I TRed, back to pali.
I loved pali's for their demon/devil DPS, however having only 600 hp in ToD, I figured I needed a few barb past lives.
so my 3rd life I went 12 barb, 6 fighter, 2 ranger. the barb part was annoying because of the constant fatigue from rage.
so my 4th life I went pure barb and loved it and stayed at barb for a long while grinding out epic gear for that toon and all my alts.

I had made epic red dragon plate (heavy of course) for my 2nd life as a pali, so I was using that even though I wasn't proficient (this was before PRR and dodge being capped at dex of armor.) Then the dev's broke epic scroll drops. I would have been happy grinding gear except I couldn't make it epic unless I traded for a rare scroll taht didn't drop anymore. so the end game was broke for me so I TR'ed

so 5th life pure fighter. was fun, but not as much dps as a barb.

then people were always saying that rogues have no HP.

so my 6th life I went 13 rogue, 6 fighter, 1 barb. level cap was still 20 and I remember in 1 shroud having 760ish HP raged. pretty good for a rogue. but I couldn't always hit everything due to the low BAB.

so 7th life was a fighter again. if I remember right I went 18 fighter, 2 barb for the run speed boost and +1 con from enhancements.

then the expansion came out and there was a stone of experience available and of course epic scrolls dropped again.

so my 8th life I went pure barb again. leveled all my epic destinies grinded some more gear, TR'ed an alt into a pure barb with almost the same gear setup. got bored after taking 3 characters to capped epic destinies and no raids to run in the end game, so I TR'ed again.

9th life I went ranger. 12 ranger, 6 fighter, 2 rogue I believe or 2 barb, I forget which. 2handed fighting, no PRE and did better than my 18 ranger, 2 fighter 2wf tempest alt.

10th life I wanted to try out druids. so I went 17 druid, 2 rogue, 1 barb (for run speed and trap skills) resurgance was fun, I used it to self heal pretty much everything until about level 15 or so.

11th life I went bard, because my bard alt never made it past level 11. I'm currently level 16 and it's not as much fun to play as the druid. I'm also getting really burnt out on TR'ing (3 lives at a time is about my max) so i will probably stay as a bard for a month or two, use all my gear to check out u16 and and see if I can pull another shard of the sos from dragon.

I dont' know about completionist (the cleric life might bore me to death) but I will definitely do another druid life or two playing around with the things i precieved as what I did wrong the first time around. I also want another pali life for the last 5% healing amp but it really just depends on how boring the end game is or how broke the devs make the game.

[akiraproject24]

Not everybody plays an Elf Wizard. I won't have no-fail spell pen even after I get all 6 spell-pen-boosting past lives.

If others do play an Elf Wizard, and so can reach no-fail with fewer past lives, or are fine with failing due to spell resistance more often, sure, that's their choice. But that doesn't make spell pen unimportant, or negate that past lives are a way to increase it that can't be had any other way.

I wouldnt even bother with elf anymore personally. I did it back b4 motu and there was only one epic lvl and to beat those drow elf was a necessaty. Now with the xtra 5 caster lvls and the spell pen points in destinies, Elven arcanum isnt what it was. I guess an argument could be made though that you go human for the xtra feat,skills,hp or whatever. Then going elf would gain you extra destiny pts to spend elsewhere.

I settled on a 50 spell pen, thats without epic spell pen feat and without a spell pen twist from Draconic. I did however twist that bard arcane stance for +2 spell pen and +1 int and some sp.