What Turbine is doing to bring back old player base?

[KoelKobalt]

Hi All

I've left game like two months ago after six years of playing and now wondering what Turbine is doing to bring back old players?

PS:
I'm not native speaker, so sorry for my english.

[Mastikator]

As far as I can tell, nothing.

[bartharok]

I think theyll not do much to bring back old players as long as they get new. Its not a question of how many old players they have that counts, its how many paying ones

[seldarin]

Yeah, pretty much the same as what they are doing to fix outstanding issues, nothing. They dont care how many players they lose, just how much cash comes in. I am a 6+ year player and have considered leaving the game many times for other games or just leaving in general. I stayed because of some of the players/friends that I have made over that time, sadly that number is dwindling too.

I shouldve/couldve/wouldve/didnt leave a few years ago, even if i did, despite being a paying customer, turbine wouldnt care. Thats just how it is.

[teh_meh]

Game is stronger, better than ever before. Welcome back. They all come back.

[seldarin]

Game is stronger, better than ever before. Welcome back. They all come back.

Did you actually read what you typed? Compared to what the game was like in 2006, sorry to disagree, but you are 100 percent wrong when you say the game is stronger and better than ever before. Playerbase is diluted, vast majority of the decent, experienced players have long disappeared to be replaced by a newer breed of elitist, arrogant, cant be shown anything, new players. If thats your idea of better and stronger, then perhaps you are correct.

[bartharok]

Did you actually read what you typed? Compared to what the game was like in 2006, sorry to disagree, but you are 100 percent wrong when you say the game is stronger and better than ever before. Playerbase is diluted, vast majority of the decent, experienced players have long disappeared to be replaced by a newer breed of elitist, arrogant, cant be shown anything, new players. If thats your idea of better and stronger, then perhaps you are correct.

I remember when i was yougn, everything was just peaches and the young uns were respectful to their elders...

Seriously, time makes things seem golden

[luvirini]

Well, have not really seen that much, except for bug fixes.

Though personally I think bug fixes are important as of the three people from our small guild who have left in the last year or so one was for lack of time/interest, second is kind of mercurial, but mentioned bugs as one reason, third left because of bugs.

[Shadow7375]

Do they actually know who left and why? I doubt it.

What will they do to bring old ones back? Most likely nothing I reckon.

[Forzah]

I'd probably come back once casters aren't as horribly overpowered anymore; this implies either a nerf to casters or an improvement to AI so mobs can't be kited as easily as now.

[Naramsin]

TL;DR version. These are the measures I've observed, whether their effect on returning players was intended or incidental, and whether they succeeded or not:
a) New content
b) Bug fixes
c) Facilitation of transition / adaptation to changes (tutorials, guides, etc.)
d) Social engineering

Didn't the Build Your Guild event include bonuses for returning players? Memory is a little hazy on the details, but I think there was something intended to promote their (re)integration. Not sure if the XP stone was intended primarily for new players or was also thought to help returning players (esp. ones who might have to rethink their characters in light of some changes).


Well, have not really seen that much, except for bug fixes.

Though personally I think bug fixes are important as of the three people from our small guild who have left in the last year or so one was for lack of time/interest, second is kind of mercurial, but mentioned bugs as one reason, third left because of bugs.

I second this statement. New content combined with bug fixes seems like it would help, at least for the wave of post U14 departures. Three of our small guild also left for bug-related reasons: one found the ratio of new bugs to fixed bugs in recent releases to be unsatisfactory, and two others lost their EDs in LR (and were aggravated by other bugs along the way). The latter expressed they might return if the issue (and affected toon) was fixed and there were other indications that "quality of life" improvements were on the way.

We've had several players that had been gone for 2+ years return around the release of the expansion, but only one stayed (so far). New content obviously drew them back, but it did not suffice to retain them. I didn't get feedback from all of them, what I did get was that some either disliked/disapproved of recent changes or had difficulty adapting.

There were free LRs (but see above) to help them update their characters, but the sum of the changes to the game created a learning curve steep enough to exceed "exciting, new system to explore" and move into "feels like work" territory. There have been some tutorials and Turbine-authored guides that might have eased the transition (e.g., Cannith crafting). AFAIK, though, most of the available information was in the form of mammoth forum threads that required one to integrate / track / fact-check statements to accurately understand the changes and their implications (Spell Power, AC, new gear). Some enjoy the metagame sport, others expect plug-and-play...

... That said, I don't know that even an exhaustive and easily digested manual to bring returning players up to speed would help ease the "feels like work" issue. That probably has more to do with player personality and the attitude they bring with them when they return (approaching this as a new game or trying to adjust their previous frame of reference).

[Zeldarr]

what Turbine is doing to bring back old players?
.

Reminds me of TV. There have been shows that I enjoyed for X number of years. Then something about them changes and I no longer enjoy them, so I stop watching them and move on to something else.

What I don't do is write the producers a letter asking what they are going to do to bring me back to watching their show. These companies make the choices they make, trying to get money from the optimal viewer/player. Sometimes their choice of who they decide is "optimal" changes and they change their product to attract the new fish.

I may miss my old favorite show/game, but sometimes you just have to grow up and accept the things in life that you cannot change. Smile, it'll make you fell better :)

[Gkar]

Hi All

I've left game like two months ago after six years of playing and now wondering what Turbine is doing to bring back old players?

PS:
I'm not native speaker, so sorry for my english.

Nothing. I've taken two extended breaks and all they did was keep sending me the junk mail about the new updates and sales of the week.

I'm not sure they even really know who their player base is anymore since cancelling VIP could mean you are still playing F2P. I bet the marketting folks don't even touch the log-in database records to know who is a departed player.

[Ape_Man]

There is no point in bothering to court old players. We are grumpy, tired, and impossible to please.

hundreds of n00bs wash up on korthos every hour. Focusing on them is more profitable.

[AZgreentea]

Its that usual difficult time of year for any MMO. This is when they start releasing the new and shiny MMO's just in time for the holidays. GW2 is pretty popular, though I laughed a little at a review that said it used the 'modern' concept of active combat that Turbine has been using since 2004. :p

I have noticed that Turbines marketing efforts seem to have changed now that they were bought by WB. They only released what, one commercial to TV?

[Cyr]

There is no point in bothering to court old players. We are grumpy, tired, and impossible to please.

hundreds of n00bs wash up on korthos every hour. Focusing on them is more profitable.

That certainly seems to be Turbine's opinion. It is a false one, because potential new players are a finite resource. Something that Turbine discovered prior to F2P. F2P conversion merely increased that potential new player base (a huge and important thing of course), but they are starting to hit the point where those easy to reach potential new players are drying up again.

With their poor product quality in the past few years they have been burning through those new players far too quickly and putting them out the door as ex-players at far too great a rate.

[Grimdiegn]

In our small guild of irl friends we had 3 founders return last month after leaving a few years ago and they are enjoying the game more than ever.

/shrug

[bartharok]

There is no point in bothering to court old players. We are grumpy, tired, and impossible to please.

hundreds of n00bs wash up on korthos every hour. Focusing on them is more profitable.


and hundreds of them have becoma grumpy old n00bs as well

[DocBenway]

I bet they get tons of useful feedback to work with on this subject from the broken Exit Survey.

Oh wait...
:p

[Raithe]

I'm not sure they even really know who their player base is anymore since cancelling VIP could mean you are still playing F2P. I bet the marketting folks don't even touch the log-in database records to know who is a departed player.

Huh? Is there such a thing as "brand loyalty" in terms of the brand being loyal to a customer?

There are no "old" customers in DDO anymore. You are allowed to play for free, so anyone that finds it undesirable to even do that is essentially off the radar entirely. Unfortunately, they still seem to take suggestions from active players under advisement. I would recommend they come up with a "philosophy" of game design and adhere to it until they are certain that it will fail. I admit that I'm not sure they haven't done that in the past, but if they did they picked a lot of bad philosophies.

Nevermind the fact that potential longterm new players are a much more likely source of revenue. They are likely to purchase more, likely to play more, likely to cooperate more than "old" players. I think it's rather cute that anyone (the OP) would think that Turbine providing them prior services puts Turbine in the customer's debt.

[TrinityTurtle]

People play a game for a while, then get bored. They move on to new and different games, no matter how much you build up a game. Eventually people will want to do something else. Most of the peole who leave who are angry post on the forums, and that is all we see, so there is a perception that people only leave because they're mad about something and will come back if Turbine fixes it.

However, I suspicion the reality is that far more people leave quietly, having done all there is, grown bored, and just quietly go. But they don't leave a visible trail on the forums.

[Kmnh]

- Every update since "secrets of the artificers" has added endgame content to the game.

- Three new easy difficulties were added to all epic quests. We also got a harder one to keep the dinosaurs busy.

- The epic destiny system has added playable self-healing, AoE damage and instakills to all classes if you take the time to get it.

- We got packs on the Forgotten Realms, with all those NPCs that I don't like and all the locations that I find boring, but that I understand that a lot of people love.


Turbine did all the big stuff that the community has asked for. Don't mind the grumpy forumites :)

[Ape_Man]

That certainly seems to be Turbine's opinion. It is a false one, because potential new players are a finite resource. Something that Turbine discovered prior to F2P. F2P conversion merely increased that potential new player base (a huge and important thing of course), but they are starting to hit the point where those easy to reach potential new players are drying up again.

And you're basing this on what? All the marketing data you've accumulated and studied?

Nope, you don't know. I don't know. All I know is that if I look on the "who" list during prime time I'll see hundreds of un-guilded level 1-5 players. I'm assuming most of those are new and trying out the game and there's a heck of a lot more of them on then there are level 20-25.

Sure I've noticed a huge drop-off in end-game players and high-level LFMs are down. BUT . . . even with LFMs down there are still lots of people playing high-level as well many of which are in guilds I've never heard of. I guess I cannot say I'm shocked people have become more insular with the amount of jackassery we see from people (it's a video game, get a grip folks).



With their poor product quality in the past few years they have been burning through those new players far too quickly and putting them out the door as ex-players at far too great a rate.

See . . . I can't agree with that either. The low-level game has been great for a long time. Since U11 Turbine's done some questionable stuff but that's all been high-level. The initial taste of the crack that is DDO is still there, as strong as ever. Prior to U11 we had like 6 straight updates full of AWESOME low/mid level content (Attack on Stormreach is AWESOME, I hope whoever came up with that chain survived the layoffs).

And with MoTU newer/lesser players aren't left out of the end-game, there's a difficulty level for all. This absolutely is catered to new players.

[goodspeed]

lol wouldn't it be funny if after someone posted an I'm leaving thread in the forums turbine locked their account and when they tried to log on the next day their was a message from the team wishing them safe journeys?

Maybe even get a lil spiffy with a picture of all their alts sitting around in a jail cell some sleeping, some playing a harmonica.

Ok I'm for it, do it!!

[Sarnind]

Hi All

I've left game like two months ago after six years of playing and now wondering what Turbine is doing to bring back old players?

PS:
I'm not native speaker, so sorry for my english.

For now nothing

[Ryiah]

I've left game like two months ago after six years of playing and now wondering what Turbine is doing to bring back old players?

Why would they do anything? New players won't realize the game is far more broken now than it used to be and will just see it as normal. :D

[Zeldarr]

lol wouldn't it be funny if after someone posted an I'm leaving thread in the forums turbine locked their account and when they tried to log on the next day their was a message from the team wishing them safe journeys?

Maybe even get a lil spiffy with a picture of all their alts sitting around in a jail cell some sleeping, some playing a harmonica.

Ok I'm for it, do it!!

Brilliant! I'm on board :D

[Feithlin]

A new enhancements system.
I'm pretty sure most will come back when it will be released. This a major game change -- more than ED IMO, but it applies to all and opens a lot of new building perspectives.
By the time it will be implemented, most newer players will have made their way to 20 and will have a decent equipment (through commendations for example), so when ppl will come back, all will be able to group together.

Players tend to see on a short term.

[madmaxhunter]

Nope, you don't know. I don't know. All I know is that if I look on the "who" list during prime time I'll see hundreds of un-guilded level 1-5 players. I'm assuming most of those are new and trying out the game and there's a heck of a lot more of them on then there are level 20-25.



I have 16 toons, only three of which are guilded, the rest are low level mules. All of my guildies have unguilded mules. So your argument may just be Jimmy trying to find his +2 holy burst light hammer of disruption, not remembering which mule he left it on.

[Cyr]

And you're basing this on what? All the marketing data you've accumulated and studied?

Nope, you don't know. I don't know. All I know is that if I look on the "who" list during prime time I'll see hundreds of un-guilded level 1-5 players. I'm assuming most of those are new and trying out the game and there's a heck of a lot more of them on then there are level 20-25.

Sure I've noticed a huge drop-off in end-game players and high-level LFMs are down. BUT . . . even with LFMs down there are still lots of people playing high-level as well many of which are in guilds I've never heard of. I guess I cannot say I'm shocked people have become more insular with the amount of jackassery we see from people (it's a video game, get a grip folks).



See . . . I can't agree with that either. The low-level game has been great for a long time. Since U11 Turbine's done some questionable stuff but that's all been high-level. The initial taste of the crack that is DDO is still there, as strong as ever. Prior to U11 we had like 6 straight updates full of AWESOME low/mid level content (Attack on Stormreach is AWESOME, I hope whoever came up with that chain survived the layoffs).

And with MoTU newer/lesser players aren't left out of the end-game, there's a difficulty level for all. This absolutely is catered to new players.

A large number of low level characters ingame is the result of Turbine's focus on new players without a doubt. However, they are NOT staying around very long because you are also noticing that the upper levels are not experiencing similar upward trends. That should be obvious, but I guess it is not.

If Turbine was being succesful in keeping these new players around you would see a top heavy player base where new players transition from new player to customers in larger numbers. What we have now is attrition being so high that we get close to a bottom heavy player base. Remember this is not a casual/noob whatever arguement, but one based purely upon the fact that players who play more then a few sessions get to mid levels and so on...

The game's initial history had a top heavy player base, but with serious issues attracting new players. That was not good either, but it was a result of a drying up of the easiest to attract customers. In the game's intial state that was MMO players very interested in a DnD based MMO. Turbine never really spent the resources to expand that base because there was virtually no advertising for the game after release.

The second phase of the game (F2P) added advertisments and the additional larger market of players willing to try something out for free. At this point (years after F2P release) the available players from that pool are getting less and less. That is because the rate of those trying out the game to brand new players (ie the younger gamers) entering the pool of easy to reach players is greater for the first group and has been since F2P release. Eventually a break even point will be reached, but I do not think we have reached that point yet (ie a bad thing for Turbine where they really have cycled through so many potential players that they are having issues reaching anyone who is not a new gamer).

Turbine would need to expand their efforts to reach gamers into less easy to reach markets (which is what all those WOW ads were about trying to get people who were not gamers originally into wow) or expand into new markets (ie other countries) to really tap into alot of new potential gamers. Those things are not naturally easy for any company to do.

This is a purely logic based argument. Potential new players ARE a finite resource. You advertise to attract the easiest ones. Eventually there are less of those around to try your product out who have not done so already. The only times this is not true is when your product has very small market penetration (or is doing an innefective job marketting to your target audience ie easiest to reach customers) so that the birth rate/immigrant rate of those easiest to reach players is greater then those trying out your product.