How do you like the level 24 handwraps?

[Kilnedric]

Hows the proc rate / damage /AOE on the level 24 Wraps of Endless Light? Good enough that you could use them against non-undead? Or still just situation undead beaters?

[redspecter23]

I am extremely disappointed in the level 24 wraps. I'm already farming to recraft my level 20 wraps to use instead. Sure you get an extra d6 + 1 over the lv 20 wraps but losing Radiant Blast for the sunburst effect is a ridiculous loss in DPS. Sunburst may have a slightly higher proc rate but hits for 250ish damage and allows a save for half which most level 24+ mobs will be making on a regular basis. If someone could convince me that sunburst procs at least 4 times more often than radiant blast, I might be convinced the lv 24 wraps are better, but I really don't think that's the case. This limits the lv 24 wraps to situations where you are absolutely surrounded by undead so you can maximize the AoE damage.

Conclusion, the upgrade isn't an upgrade but more of a sideways functionality change. I'm not impressed.

[Missing_Minds]

I am extremely disappointed in the level 24 wraps. I'm already farming to recraft my level 20 wraps to use instead. Sure you get an extra d6 + 1 over the lv 20 wraps but losing Radiant Blast for the sunburst effect is a ridiculous loss in DPS. Sunburst may have a slightly higher proc rate but hits for 250ish damage and allows a save for half which most level 24+ mobs will be making on a regular basis. If someone could convince me that sunburst procs at least 4 times more often than radiant blast, I might be convinced the lv 24 wraps are better, but I really don't think that's the case. This limits the lv 24 wraps to situations where you are absolutely surrounded by undead so you can maximize the AoE damage.

Conclusion, the upgrade isn't an upgrade but more of a sideways functionality change. I'm not impressed.

That is what I mentally concluded as well. It should have added the 1 W and sunburst proc to actually make it worth while, and that is it.

But they didn't, so I leave my wraps at 20.

[TPICKRELL]

Scratchpad math on level 24 versus level 20 wraps.

I ignore greater undead bane and light bringer since they are the same on both versions.

+1 From +6 to +7

+2.9 Brilliance (4.1 per swing at 19-20X2 crit range) to Corruscating (7/swing)

+3.5 Epic Weapon (absolute min level)

-7.6 Radiant Blast is 1% proc at average of 380 a proc so 3.8 (see http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Blast ) X2 for undead

=======
-0.2 per swing if greater sunburst is 0 average damage

+1.9 1.5% proc rate at 250 /2 (save)

+1.7 per swing plus some ancillary AOE damage.

So it's modestly better per swing and gives AOE damage, has an unlikely to land blindness effect, and replaces radiant blast with sunburst which is AOE but subject to reflex save and evasion. So my conclusion based on the feedback below is not work the cost of the upgrade. These adjustments seem to make the quick and dirty math agree with the subjective evidence.

[Theender]

+5.9 Brilliance (8.1 per swing at 18-20X2 crit range) to Corruscating (14/swing)

Not sure how you got those numbers. Mind breaking it down? Cause if I assume I have 18-20X2 crit range that's:

Brilliance = 1d6 + ( 1d10*(3/20) ) = 3.5 + (5.5*0.15) = +4.325

Coruscating = 2d6 = +7

[TPICKRELL]

Not sure how you got those numbers. Mind breaking it down? Cause if I assume I have 18-20X2 crit range that's:

Brilliance = 1d6 + ( 1d10*(3/20) ) = 3.5 + (5.5*0.15) = +4.325

Coruscating = 2d6 = +7
Yeah thanks, i had a typo, the crit range i used was 19-20, not 18 to 20. Will fix in my post. I also did it for 17-20 in a quick spreadsheet and that only narrowed the difference by .5 per swing,

[Theender]

Yeah thanks, i had a typo, the crit range i used was 19-20, not 18 to 20. Will fix in my post. I also did it for 17-20 in a quick spreadsheet and that only narrowed the difference by .5 per swing,

I still don't understand how you got your numbers +5.9 or +8.1. But nevertheless the argument you're making still stands that Coruscating is better than Brilliance.

[JOTMON]

I am extremely disappointed in the level 24 wraps. I'm already farming to recraft my level 20 wraps to use instead. Sure you get an extra d6 + 1 over the lv 20 wraps but losing Radiant Blast for the sunburst effect is a ridiculous loss in DPS. Sunburst may have a slightly higher proc rate but hits for 250ish damage and allows a save for half which most level 24+ mobs will be making on a regular basis. If someone could convince me that sunburst procs at least 4 times more often than radiant blast, I might be convinced the lv 24 wraps are better, but I really don't think that's the case. This limits the lv 24 wraps to situations where you are absolutely surrounded by undead so you can maximize the AoE damage.

Conclusion, the upgrade isn't an upgrade but more of a sideways functionality change. I'm not impressed.

Wish you would have told me before I upgraded mine..

I tried out the upgraded wraps and saw no discernable difference damage wise.

There was no "oh yeah.. these are better"

Still need some further testing, but intial feel overall is that the upgraded wraps are underwhelming.

~

After testing some more these wraps are .. meh...
Greater sunburst (besides being visually annoying) is subpar compared to Radiant Blast.
In fact I am now looking at recrafting a set back to the level 20 version.

[TPICKRELL]

I still don't understand how you got your numbers +5.9 or +8.1. But nevertheless the argument you're making still stands that Coruscating is better than Brilliance.
Ah.

I doubled the number for both brilliance and coruscating because many of the more difficult undead are weak to light. Eliminating weak to light factor still would leave the level 24s with a worst case scenario of +2.35 damage per swing and a kicker of AOE damage. The worst case assumes all mobs make the save for half damage and the proc rate for Greater Sunburst is the same as Radiant Blast (1% according to wiki). More favorable assumptions about Greater Sunburst say 75% of mobs make there save and proc rate of 1.5% yield a net of +5 damage per swing without weakness to light and +8 damage per swing with weakness to light factored in.

EDIT: Still looking for why everyone thinks the level 24s are worse than the 20s. The really big numbers (1600 against vamps) may be gone, but still looks like more damge per swing to me. I'm looking for someone to tell me what's wrong with my calculations, because I don't want to upgrade 5 sets of level 20 wraps if they really aren't signficicantly better.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Cost>>>Benefit. Not worth the upgrade...

Minimal thought was put into the ml 24 version. (They hate monks but will never admit....heck they may not even know that they hate monks)

Remember the swarmy "Endless Light Wraps are doing more damage than intended" AFTER the Disruption, Smiting, Banishing change?

Thanks for that STICK IN THE GD EYE.

They could have just re-added the Disruption Effect back for the ML 24 version. That could have been easy AND a DISCERNIBLE UPGRADE (NOT MATHEARIMETHEORITICAL W/E)

But wouldn't fit the model....

MAX GRIND minimal reward...

Both times the raid opened was failed with destroyed altars within 30 seconds of door closing.

And 10k motes or some such to buy a Spectral Scale...

Well it just wouldn't be Festival without Turbines special :STICK IN THE EYE: that comes with the "F(un)"

Etc, Etc, Etc....

Add in the fact that my favorite class to play has merry elfing bugs on various makes and models with the main standard weapon of choice...

I REALLY FIRMLY BELIEVE THEY DON'T WANT US TO ENJOY ANY OF THIS AND WOULD RATHER US JUST GIVE UP SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT ANYMORE. But as long as we keep playing they have to support it BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

(Caps mean I am yelling BTW)

[Missing_Minds]

Go run WWs then, TPICKRELL. Or someone that has the new 24 handwraps. I would figure that should tell just what the average damage of Greater Sunburst is.

That is the real point of data we don't yet know about them to really make a determination about their DPS. We need no save values.

But also keep in mind because it is more than likely it is based off of Sunburst, aka a reflex save, Evasion based creatures won't take damage at the high levels. I'll grant you I don't know many slimes and most undead do not have evasion (yes, some ghouls or such do have evasion.)

Radiant Blast has no save.

All of this you have already been told, TP. You were there in the Lama thread after all.

[TPICKRELL]

Go run WWs then, TPICKRELL. Or someone that has the new 24 handwraps. I would figure that should tell just what the average damage of Greater Sunburst is.

That is the real point of data we don't yet know about them to really make a determination about their DPS. We need no save values.

But also keep in mind because it is more than likely it is based off of Sunburst, aka a reflex save, Evasion based creatures won't take damage at the high levels. I'll grant you I don't know many slimes and most undead do not have evasion (yes, some ghouls or such do have evasion.)

Radiant Blast has no save.

All of this you have already been told, TP. You were there in the Lama thread after all.
Will do, I've not upgraded mine yet. I am planning to do the first set tomorrow. I didn't carry any motes over from last year and I'm sticking on lowbies while the 31% XP boost is on.

I plan to upgrade one set and then decide on the rest after I run for a while. Just hoping someone could point out something I'm missing and avoid the potential pain of upgrading one set and then needing to build a new set of level 20s from scratch.

The reflex save could be an issue, but I've not noticed many high level undead having evasion/improved evasion.

[Munkenmo]

Personally I dislike the new wraps. With the way I play the game there is little point in considering AOE damage, as often the sorc / wiz / bb'ing divine will take care of trash much faster than I ever could.

The fact that these wraps seem to me, to be arguably less damage against Portals / abbot / single targets, means I don't see the point in sitting in mabar for a few hours to "upgrade" them.

I can appreciate that for some the AOE damage would be nice, but personally the sideways **** in functionality and ML increase, means they're not for me.

[oweieie]

Yeah thanks, i had a typo, the crit range i used was 19-20, not 18 to 20. Will fix in my post. I also did it for 17-20 in a quick spreadsheet and that only narrowed the difference by .5 per swing,

Your numbers are still wrong, you still have corruscating doing 14 instead of 7, and you have sunburst doing x2 when it doesn't. The proper numbers are:

+2.7 Brilliance (4.3 per swing at 18-20 crit range) to Corruscating (7/swing)

You had x2 in there but undead are not vulnerable to light normally with some exceptions like pale master and vampires. Some light effects do x2 to undead, these don't.

+1.9 greater sunburst 1.5% proc rate at 250 /2 (save) undead

Proc rate is reported by devs to be same as lightning strike which is 1.5%, and again you had x2 in there for damage, the damage it does is 250 normally 125 on the save and the save is 95% of the time.

So you're trading a 7.6 average damage proc for a 1.9, which is pretty repulsive. The new wraps only are competitive because of the higher base damage which the level 20 wraps SHOULD have, but... Turbine. If Turbine got off their asses and fixed the level 20 wraps to have the proper epic damage, the level 20s would be much better than the 24s.

Turbine continues to disappoint.

[Missing_Minds]

Will do, I've not upgraded mine yet. I am planning to do the first set tomorrow. I didn't carry any motes over from last year and I'm sticking on lowbies while the 31% XP boost is on.

I plan to upgrade one set and then decide on the rest after I run for a while. Just hoping someone could point out something I'm missing and avoid the potential pain of upgrading one set and then needing to build a new set of level 20s from scratch.

The reflex save could be an issue, but I've not noticed many high level undead having evasion/improved evasion.

The data will be much appreciated.

I wonder how much they would better fit a pet than a player as well.

I tend to stick a collar on a dog and forget.

[Missing_Minds]

If Turbine got off their asses and fixed the level 20 wraps to have the proper epic damage, the level 20s would be much better than the 24s.

Level 20 does not mean a weapon will have 2 W instead of 1 W. Actually most ML 20 weapons are only 1 W.

That said, given the previous work where it actually required epic tokens, they should be 2 W.

[oweieie]

Level 20 does not mean a weapon will have 2 W instead of 1 W. Actually most ML 20 weapons are only 1 W.

That said, given the previous work where it actually required epic tokens, they should be 2 W.

The fact that it is a +6 or higher weapon does mean it is an epic weapon and should be getting the +1[W]. The purple border also gives it away.

Yet another bug Turbine will never fix despite it impacting a lot of people and being trivial to fix.

[TPICKRELL]

Your numbers are still wrong, you still have corruscating doing 14 instead of 7, and you have sunburst doing x2 when it doesn't. The proper numbers are:

+2.7 Brilliance (4.3 per swing at 18-20 crit range) to Corruscating (7/swing)

You had x2 in there but undead are not vulnerable to light normally with some exceptions like pale master and vampires. Some light effects do x2 to undead, these don't.

+1.9 greater sunburst 1.5% proc rate at 250 /2 (save) undead

Proc rate is reported by devs to be same as lightning strike which is 1.5%, and again you had x2 in there for damage, the damage it does is 250 normally 125 on the save and the save is 95% of the time.

So you're trading a 7.6 average damage proc for a 1.9, which is pretty repulsive. The new wraps only are competitive because of the higher base damage which the level 20 wraps SHOULD have, but... Turbine. If Turbine got off their asses and fixed the level 20 wraps to have the proper epic damage, the level 20s would be much better than the 24s.

Turbine continues to disappoint.

Thanks for the reply and info.

I've assumed that the X2 for Radiant blast against undead was due to it being light based damage, not a special attribute of Radiant Blast... Many light based spells (searing light, sun burst for example) and Radiant Blast all do extra damage to undead, so I assumed that coruscating and greater sunburst would also. I've never used a coruscating weapon on undead, so that was an apparently incorrect assumption.

So from your reply, I assume that you are seeing numbers of 125 from greater sunburst and only seeing an average of 7 from coruscating?

[terrenceknight1]

You can pretty much write off the greater sunburst effect completely if your dealing with mobs that have evasion since they can evade the entire effect.

Soo.. 250 or 125 with save or even 0 against evasion

vs 350ish no save. Feels like a loss to me.

[bigolbear]

has any one considered that sunburst can blind.. and thus for a dark monk fighting a mix of undead and non undead this could be very beneficial.

blinding the non undead, while taking down the undead?

[rest]

has any one considered that sunburst can blind.. and thus for a dark monk fighting a mix of undead and non undead this could be very beneficial.

blinding the non undead, while taking down the undead?


Sunburst is a funny beast. The blind effect works as a level 2 spell (blindness) independently of the actual level (8?) of the spell. So the DC is pretty low, and anything with a mantle of invulnerability will have the whole spell negated (blindness AND light damage) since it seems that the mantle block the blindness first and the rest of the spell because of it.

Kinda silly, but that's a big reason I never bothered with sunburst on any of my characters that could cast it. And also why the level 24 version of these wraps is teh sucks.

[Desdemonte]

Forgive my ignorance, but when did the wraps lose Disruption? I thought it was kept, but only did the 100 bane damage when the Vorpal changes were made. I knew the wraps were considered OP initially, and were nerffed but i thought they still had Disruption...

[TPICKRELL]

Forgive my ignorance, but when did the wraps lose Disruption? I thought it was kept, but only did the 100 bane damage when the Vorpal changes were made. I knew the wraps were considered OP initially, and were nerffed but i thought they still had Disruption...
Disruption was changed to light bringer, which is disruption minus the 4d6 extra damage that was added to Disruption a few releases back. They decided that 4d6 from disruption + 3d6 from greater undead bane was toooooooo much.

[Hendrik]

Just by reading them, no. My opinion may change after I read solid facts, but not going to upgrade mine until I do - from a trusted source. Even then, 'prolly won't. I hardly ever use those 'wraps, unless for Mabar. Lot of hassle for something hardly ever used.



I will, however, be upgrading my Cloak.

[TPICKRELL]

Updated the quick and dirty math in my earlier post to reflect oweieie's feedback.

[Braegan]

Just to double check, and forgive me if it was mentioned elsewhere. Does the greater Sunburst on the lvl 24 wraps have a reflex save for halfdamage and no damage in case of evasion mobs? Again sorry to maybe beat a dead horse, but I really want to get some concrete facts. Ty for any help. :)

If possible a SS of save effects would be spectacular. :)

[noinfo]

Cost>>>Benefit. Not worth the upgrade...

Minimal thought was put into the ml 24 version. (They hate monks but will never admit....heck they may not even know that they hate monks)

Remember the swarmy "Endless Light Wraps are doing more damage than intended" AFTER the Disruption, Smiting, Banishing change?

Thanks for that STICK IN THE GD EYE.

They could have just re-added the Disruption Effect back for the ML 24 version. That could have been easy AND a DISCERNIBLE UPGRADE (NOT MATHEARIMETHEORITICAL W/E)

But wouldn't fit the model....

MAX GRIND minimal reward...

Both times the raid opened was failed with destroyed altars within 30 seconds of door closing.

And 10k motes or some such to buy a Spectral Scale...

Well it just wouldn't be Festival without Turbines special :STICK IN THE EYE: that comes with the "F(un)"

Etc, Etc, Etc....

Add in the fact that my favorite class to play has merry elfing bugs on various makes and models with the main standard weapon of choice...

I REALLY FIRMLY BELIEVE THEY DON'T WANT US TO ENJOY ANY OF THIS AND WOULD RATHER US JUST GIVE UP SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT ANYMORE. But as long as we keep playing they have to support it BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

(Caps mean I am yelling BTW)

While I certainly agree that none of the gear in Mabar is worth grinding beyond 20 currently (shame)
Claiming that devs hate monks is seriously misleading. While they have more than their share of bugs due to wraps in particular, they are far and away the most all round powerful of the melee classes and have received more buffing than any other melee classes. Play a pally or a ranger before you come in complaining about monks in general.

Keeping to the topic. I have skipped Mabar completely due to not just this issue but to the gear in general. The 2 items I was interested in are just not worth the grind. Wraps or Cloak, this is a shame as at their release these 2 items at level 20 were very nice.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

If the drops were better, I'd buy these handwraps and turn them into a collar for my Iron Defender. ;)

[Uhtred_Stark]

You need aproximately 40 or so cursed fingerbones to get 1000 motes. It seems that mote item drops are down. I guess whether or not it's worth the several hours grind is up to you, and you can always buy the motes. The bigger issue is why do they release easy to get monster epic gear, but when they redo old epic gear it doesn't even make the item better? The fact that we have to have this discussion about going from a L20 item to a L24 item is pretty ridiculous. Aren't L24 wraps supposed to be the ultimate undead weapon for monks? Instead they are blah. I would rather have the 750 hp single dmg that radiant blast does when all is said and done.

[Arakasia]

OK guys the item description is saying its a greater sunburst on the 24 wraps, and as far as the wiki is saying, http://ddowiki.com/page/Greater_Sunburst greater sunburst doesn't have a save known, so a screenie of said save would be most appreciated plzz

[JOTMON]

has any one considered that sunburst can blind.. and thus for a dark monk fighting a mix of undead and non undead this could be very beneficial.

blinding the non undead, while taking down the undead?

Consider the flipside.

Greater sunburst will also aggro everything around you, making you the target for all the mobs.. may as well be wearing a cowbell.

So instead of killing a controlled group of mobs via various aggro controlling methods (like bards) or PRR tank, or whatever... you will now have the surrounding mobs attention as your sunbursts proc randomly.

So much for beating on the undead boss (who is immune to sunburst) with focussed damage while someone else kites trash.

[bigolbear]

Consider the flipside.

Greater sunburst will also aggro everything around you, making you the target for all the mobs.. may as well be wearing a cowbell.

So instead of killing a controlled group of mobs via various aggro controlling methods (like bards) or PRR tank, or whatever... you will now have the surrounding mobs attention as your sunbursts proc randomly.

So much for beating on the undead boss (who is immune to sunburst) with focussed damage while someone else kites trash.

An extremely good point. you have me convinced - for this reason alone, im skipping them. good discussion.

[Carpone]

Aside from Abbott, I don't understand all the talk about "What about Evasion mobs?" These are undead beater wraps. For non-undead trash mobs you'll be using Stunning +10 wraps. For bosses you'll be using something that bypasses DR combined with Holy Burst/Vicious of Greater Bane.

[adamkatt]

Consider the flipside.

Greater sunburst will also aggro everything around you, making you the target for all the mobs.. may as well be wearing a cowbell.

So instead of killing a controlled group of mobs via various aggro controlling methods (like bards) or PRR tank, or whatever... you will now have the surrounding mobs attention as your sunbursts proc randomly.

So much for beating on the undead boss (who is immune to sunburst) with focussed damage while someone else kites trash.

If your a bad ass earth monk with 5000 hp how does all that aggro matter?!?

[srxmk2]

I did a bit of test using celestia (also has greater sunburst) in Sschindylryn before. The light damage on target is without save and the aoe effect can be saved. However the DC seems to be pretty high that many drow warriors and driders took full damage. The proc rate is definitely greater than 1% but someone need to do more tests to confirm this.

[Virella]

been testing the wraps out on my monk the greater sunburst damage in the combat window keeps double procing when it does, so it seems to do one hits of 250 +d10 damage and the proc rate seems very high, with a very small chance of a save on hit. Ive had a couple times where on 2 mobs hit 4 times and on one mob hit twice trying to find whats causing this, not sure right now, possible double strike on the hit procing sunburst offhad attack on the attack procing sunburst or a mainhand/off hand attack the both proc still not sure what seems to be causing this effect every now and then. ive been hitting reliably on epic hard drow archers for 250, the only save seems to be if the mob rolls a 20. ive even blinded a few.

[Deathdefy]

Aside from Abbott, I don't understand all the talk about "What about Evasion mobs?" These are undead beater wraps. For non-undead trash mobs you'll be using Stunning +10 wraps. For bosses you'll be using something that bypasses DR combined with Holy Burst/Vicious of Greater Bane.

I was thinking exactly this!

Having now thought about it, I remember that for months after the festival last year huge numbers of monks were using the ml 20 version for everything including tanking Suulo in VoD, beating on Harry and for general trash.

[Virella]

evasion improved evasion has no effect of the proc of greater sunburst.
greater sunburst works on abbot (i have screenshots of this)
The proc rate seems to be 2x the proc rate of toxic from ivy wraps as well as 2x lightning strike, seems about what the speculated proc rate for greater incineration is. so at a minimum of damage for greater sunburst would be 3% 250 = 7.5 per strike, if you use the speculated rate of greater incineration that is 10 per stike most likely more as there is some kind of dice roll added in, just not a very big one.

One thing still to test can the greater sunburst proc instant kill vamps like the sunburst spell does sometimes

[Cashiry]

I could be wrong, but I was under the assuption that the Greater Sunburst effect was an AoE effect hitting all mobs in the area..

[fco-karatekid]

While I certainly agree that none of the gear in Mabar is worth grinding beyond 20 currently (shame)
Claiming that devs hate monks is seriously misleading. While they have more than their share of bugs due to wraps in particular, they are far and away the most all round powerful of the melee classes and have received more buffing than any other melee classes. Play a pally or a ranger before you come in complaining about monks in general....

I have to agree with this - yes - chock full of oddities and bugs; but overall nicely designed - definitely NOT a hated class - Ranged Rangers are a hated class... haven't played a Pally, so can't comment on that.

I did the math as well on the wraps, and it was the chance factor intimated above that led to me leaving ALL my characters' wraps at 20 vs. 24.

[terrenceknight1]

evasion improved evasion has no effect of the proc of greater sunburst.
greater sunburst works on abbot (i have screenshots of this)
The proc rate seems to be 2x the proc rate of toxic from ivy wraps as well as 2x lightning strike, seems about what the speculated proc rate for greater incineration is. so at a minimum of damage for greater sunburst would be 3% 250 = 7.5 per strike, if you use the speculated rate of greater incineration that is 10 per stike most likely more as there is some kind of dice roll added in, just not a very big one.

One thing still to test can the greater sunburst proc instant kill vamps like the sunburst spell does sometimes

Evasion does apply against the greater sunburst proc, the Tiefling Rangers in Weapon Shipment Evade it regularly so do the fire Reavers in Servants of the Overlord.

[NancyD]

***because I don't want to upgrade 5 sets of level 20 wraps if they really aren't signficicantly better.

I have an easy solution for you. Do like I do and have just one monk! I upgraded her 20s to 24s but then regretted it 'cause she's at 20. So now I have to farm to get the 16 version to 20. But the Mabar drop rate is low for my Mabar farmers, which doesn't include my monk since it doesn't have the 20 wraps because I have just upgraded them.

And so I am going to the countryside for the weekend with my husband. I have put APs in Avoidance Mastery on my monk, which together with my +6 competence bonus to avoidance bracelets and my +2 to stupid tome seem to work well for me, if not my monk.

When it comes to monks, it's not easy being green.

[TPICKRELL]

I have an easy solution for you. Do like I do and have just one monk! I upgraded her 20s to 24s but then regretted it 'cause she's at 20. So now I have to farm to get the 16 version to 20. But the Mabar drop rate is low for my Mabar farmers, which doesn't include my monk since it doesn't have the 20 wraps because I have just upgraded them.

And so I am going to the countryside for the weekend with my husband. I have put APs in Avoidance Mastery on my monk, which together with my +6 competence bonus to avoidance bracelets and my +2 to stupid tome seem to work well for me, if not my monk.

When it comes to monks, it's not easy being green.ONE MONK? I'd have to shoot 6 toons to make that happen... 4 pures(2 light 2 dark with different focuses) and 3 mixed classes (obsolete fighter monk for heavier tanking, rogue monk for trapping and druid monk leveling now) to do that... Not going to happen...

I was leaning towards not upgrading any of them, but the info in this thread is confusing, so I'm going to try it out for myself on my main and just expect to have to make another set of 20's for him.

Proc rate and save rate are key to the decision, and the estimates in the thread are all over the place from 1% to 3%+ proc rate for example. At 3% they are back into the reasonalbe upgrade range at 1.5% they are not.

I'll try to upgrade one set this weekend and do some measurements.

EDIT: My level 16 TR monk is doing fine farming motes n the level 16-20 instance without the wraps-- he got about 3K motes last night in 2.5 hours with timeouts to do 3 dragons. He's using disruption lootgen wraps since his mabar wraps are level 20s.

[Carpone]

Evasion does apply against the greater sunburst proc, the Tiefling Rangers in Weapon Shipment Evade it regularly so do the fire Reavers in Servants of the Overlord.
Why aren't you instead using Stunning +10 wraps on these mobs?

[terrenceknight1]

Why aren't you instead using Stunning +10 wraps on these mobs?

I have a stunning fist of 51 without stunners on and I don't play Epic elite so I have no need for +10 stunners, however I will swap to grave wrappings if by some rare chance my guild runs an EE quest or 2.

[TPICKRELL]

I changed my priorities when the Mabar event got shortened, so I only had an hour or so last night with level 24 wraps. After I finished all my other high priorities items, I made a new set of 24's from scratch so I have both 24s and 20s to compare.

My time was pretty limited, so, I did a very quick and dirty test to try to determine the relative proc rates.

I ran out to Aussicrax valley and beat down the rare portal three times with each set of wraps. There will be some variance in the number of swings bast on the wraps themselves and the rolls, but I thought that a 2X or 3X proc rate ought to show up.

In three beat downs, the level 24's proced greater sunburst 10 times, and the level 20's proced radiant blast 9 times.

While there are to many variables for it to be a scientific trial, and the sample size isnt large enough, I would have expected a bigger difference if the proc rate is 2X or 3X as high (or even if its 1.5X as high).

I'll try to do some more tests with a specific swing count involved, but the results here were either very bad luck with the level 24s or are very suspicious.

[DrunkenBuddha]

Anyone know if the AOE effect for the lvl 24 wraps hass a reflex save or not?

[akiraproject24]

Not a fan of the greater sunburst thus far. I banked my old lvl 20 wraps made a fresh set up to lvl 24. Then got crazy and made lvl 4,8,12 for TRs. Anyhow...I kinda like the lvl 20 wraps better just from the radiant blast. Hard to say which set is better though...all those small +1w and xtra d6 light damage could add up to more dps just in a less exciting visual way. Again very hard to say. I do believe though that the LVL 20 wraps SHOULD have the full epic +[w]. Look at any other lvl 20 epic weapon, it has the higher base damage. Hell even lvl 18 alchem weapons have what equals epic base damage. Of course the LVL 18 wraps were also left out of this and have low base damage like the lvl 20 wraps of light.

[TPICKRELL]

Anyone know if the AOE effect for the lvl 24 wraps hass a reflex save or not?Yes it has a reflex save.

[Missing_Minds]

I'm such a freaking newb. *sigh*

I've been helping my wife gather up motes and ended up gathering all the parts necessary to create a 24 version from scratch. So why not? I figured I'd make it, and do my own testing.

I got my lvl 24s and looked at how they were red Xed and my monk couldn't use them. 3 seconds later it dawned on me... My monk is only lvl 21. So much for testing. :)

I'm going to have to either make these or something similar now to console myself.
http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/mini-bacon-wrapped-sausages/88157694-2a84-4970-a8a6-f144044dc21d

[Raoull]

Scratchpad math on level 24 versus level 20 wraps.

I ignore greater undead bane and light bringer since they are the same on both versions.

+1 From +6 to +7

+2.9 Brilliance (4.1 per swing at 19-20X2 crit range) to Corruscating (7/swing)

+3.5 Epic Weapon (absolute min level)

-7.6 Radiant Blast is 1% proc at average of 380 a proc so 3.8 (see http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Blast ) X2 for undead

=======
-0.2 per swing if greater sunburst is 0 average damage

+1.9 1.5% proc rate at 250 /2 (save)

+1.7 per swing plus some ancillary AOE damage.

So it's modestly better per swing and gives AOE damage, has an unlikely to land blindness effect, and replaces radiant blast with sunburst which is AOE but subject to reflex save and evasion. So my conclusion based on the feedback below is not work the cost of the upgrade. These adjustments seem to make the quick and dirty math agree with the subjective evidence.


New Data. With update 16 the lvl 20 wraps also have the +1d6 base damage for being Epic.

So.... lvl 24 wraps now do LESS damage than lvl 20 Mabar wraps.....

I hope that Greater Sunberst math is wrong or something. Such a minor upgrade is bad enough, now it is a outright downgrade except when you're fighting lots of undead and you don't mind the aggro.

[TPICKRELL]

New Data. With update 16 the lvl 20 wraps also have the +1d6 base damage for being Epic.

So.... lvl 24 wraps now do LESS damage than lvl 20 Mabar wraps.....

I hope that Greater Sunberst math is wrong or something. Such a minor upgrade is bad enough, now it is a outright downgrade except when you're fighting lots of undead and you don't mind the aggro.
Thanks, I forgot to look at mine last night to see if they had the epic 1d6. Even less need to upgrade now, so glad I only did one set to test with.

[ArloOne]

...I really want a spinach wrap with provolone and a myriad of fresh veggies and herbs please.

[Djeserit]

Well, I'm done upgrading everything I could conceivably use except wraps (many cloaks, one robe, one docent).

I thought I would res this thread. I have three monks: Light, Drunk/rogue, and Vampire. Not sure what to do with their wraps.

How do y'all feel about this two weeks later? Which level of handwraps is best?

[TPICKRELL]

Still the same.

The level 20s are almost always better, especially now that they have the extra d6 from being epic levels.

I've used the 24s a few times when fighting large numbers of undead (umbral rats and gargoyles in the Netherese chain for example) but I'm built to handle agro and that's the only circumstance where they are competive with the 20s.