PUGs

[tankerschnitzl]

I have no clue why people assuming things of other players based off of ONE simple question.'

To start:
I rarely PUG, because most the time I roll with guildies or my husband, but when no one is on I usually resort to LFMs.

I have a TR character and another character that I am planning on TRing, I play PnP 4 times a month, so I "have a clue". I am geared up pretty sufficiently and my arti is built well.

Lately I am getting sick of the same ol quests, and have been looking for ones I haven't experienced yet. I miss not knowing what to expect around the corner.

I saw an LFM up the other day for Invaders, which I have ran the **** out of in search for the Optic Nerve, and the lfm said "link your db". At that time, I did not know what "db" was so I sent a polite tell to ask so that I could provide the information, and I got some ****cheese response basically telling me I am not worthy of running the quest. Later, after researching it when I was done, I figured out what it was, and my gear was more than sufficient for that run.

Today sent a tell for Monastery of the Scorpion, a simple google search now says it's in Reavers Refuge which I have done quests there before with no problems. At that time, it wasn't ringing a bell. The lfm was asking for a trapper, so I sent a tell letting them know I was interested in joining, and asked if he wouldn't mind telling me where the quest giver is located. He then changed the LFM to say "Have a clue".

So in retrospect I have actually had to wake up from a nap and save my husband and a guild friend because they wiped once in the past.

I have no clue why you people think that a simple question makes a person completely incompetent and a terrible player.

It sucks that I can't ask a simple question and get a straight answer. I have to alt tab, then google it, then see if the LFM is still up because the majority of the people playing are straight D BAGS.

[nayozz]

learn to avoid rude people :D
especially when they have the star...

[markymarksta]

I've been playing for a while, I remember once finishing an afternoon of questing with an xp penalty after Invaders on elite. It was a really rough quest in its day.

I have never pulled any optic nerves.

I do not know what a 'DB' is. Does it mean Demon beater because of all the Renders in there? So I would have had to ask the same question.

I'm so surprised at the requirements for joining some LFM's. I feel like I have to have a CV with three referee's, one being a developer, a psychological assessment and be able to speak three languages to get a spot in some groups.

Thankfully we have friends, guildies and the ability to make our own LFM's. I'm pretty relaxed about the people I let in my LFM's.

[Seventoe]

1. In order to join a group, you should be an expert on the quest.

2. To become an expert on the quest, join lots of groups for it.

Simple, I don't know how people mess that up. :)


It's said often enough that it has become a DDO cliche, but...

Those group leaders were doing you a favor, because you probably didn't want to party with them anyway. Their loss.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Welcome to the PUG scene. It's best to assume you narrowly avoided an unpleasant run.

[EarlofPain]

I've seen good PUGs and bad like most so your situation doesn't surprise me. My favorite is when the party leader has both "Have a clue" and "needs guide" in the LFM.

[Qhualor]

the longer you play the game, the easier it is to know which pug is a d-bag. new ones are always popping up and some create new alts that you dont know are the original d-bag.

i have a list of d-bags and some are easy to remember. when i look at the lfm, i hover to see who is in the group. sometimes i wait until at least 2-3 people join before requesting just to make sure. i wont play with them if i can help it, despite knowing the quests, knowing the little acronyms and always prepared. i would rather stand around and do nothing, no matter how bad i need to do the quest.

i would recommend starting off being nice and if the party leader is rude because a simple question was asked, than /squelch. you dont need him and he dont need you obviously. these rude people is part of why pugs are given a bad rep.

[Daemoneyes]

Amen Sister!

All the different Acronyms and lets not forget all the fantasy words player come up with can confuse one. Then you ask what the hell he wants and all you get is trolololol n00b.
Can be discouraging, just ignore them.

btw those groups tend to need atleast 30min to fill, always found that one funny cause in that time you can run that quest and even with some deaths will net 100% more then they get ^^

Some LFM are also just hilarious like all the:
Shroud 400hp+
OOB 350hp or kick

I really wonder how those player ever survived the first level, well i guess they were carried by real player till they got their useless amount of hp.
Dont get me wrong, hp are nice and have a great value but i have never seen a atleast ok played DD with need for such amounts.

[Enoach]

I laughed at "Link your DB". I've been playing for 6 years and I had to think... DB, DB. So I guess I learned something today.

Sorry you ran into such narrow minded people. Believe me when I say that your two experiences are on the far end of PuG extremes - or at least that is my experience.

[Silverleafeon]

Not to worry, some pug leaders are not snobs, however they do tend to find themselves swamped with applicants...

[Silverleafeon]

Sorry you ran into such narrow minded people. Believe me when I say that your two experiences are on the far end of PuG extremes - or at least that is my experience.
+1
My name is Fawngate of Khyber, and I approved this message ;)

[gphysalis]

I do not know what a 'DB' is.

I would guess that they are referring to death block.

to the OP,
avoiding LFMs with words in them on average means that the leader is less elitest.

[Thlargir]

Does it mean Demon beater because of all the Renders in there?

I would guess that they are referring to death block.

the longer you play the game, the easier it is to know which pug is a d-bag.

Given that the sages here can't agree on what the post meant, it seems that the appropriate response was to point out that the group already had a DB...

[Kawai]

all of the above apply. :rolleyes:

and 2 b concise?


Lazy, and don't feel like teaching? or explaining anything to anyone? they just want 2 get through the map and get back to sad existence. :(
Lemmings. Monkey see? Monkey do. Now they r coolboiz, mannnnn! :cool: ~As IF.
Avoid like plague. As in per above? when sezzy "Have Clue, Need Guide"? Yea, those? Track littleboi down and serve up Pumpk'n to shoulders. :D

And, as already stated all over forum?
Start your own... Put in title "All Welcome".
It will fill. :)

[kutscd01a]

For those of you that don't know, DB = deathblock.

/rant on

As for the experience of the OP, the people you are refering to are what I call elitists. These are people that have likely played so much they think they are better than everyone else. They act this way because likely they were picked on and/or beaten up alot as kids (and possibly still as adults in some cases) and it makes them feel superior because the alternative is to find a nice, quiet, dark corner and curl up in the fetal position dreading the next butt-whipping coming their way (or remembering the last one as the case may be). They are also likely living in their parents basement wearing microwave burrito stained wifebeaters and boxes, sitting in the dark, double boxing DDO while simultaneously watching kiddie pron with the volume down so mommy and daddy don't hear it.

Of course I could be exaggerating a bit but that is the mental picture I get when I encounter an elitist. It's a game, elitist jack-rods. Don't act like you're a bada$$ because you have nothing better to do than play it 10x more than the rest of us.

/rant off

As you can see, I HATE elitsts. I was lucky enough to get into a very good guild (House Do'Urden of Orien) when I first started back in 2006. They knew up front I was a noob and went out of their way to teach me all they knew. Others would be so lucky to meet more people like those guys. So my encounters with elitists were few and far between. You will know one when you encounter them rather quickly. IMHO it is better to leave their group and find another. I enjoy teaching people as much as I enjoyed being taught. It is a reward in itself. Elitists will never know/feel that sense of gratitude.

[fartlord]

I had a experience with one of these guys we did a fight to the finnish got 5 stars was all good,about 30 secs left on time a priestess shows up so i start killin some of the trash so she cant heal.
dude goes crazy starts screaming over the mic that we need to kill the priestess.
so i tell him we kill trash then her,he goes on to say u can kill her while she is dancing and she cant heal.
then he goes on to tell me "there is a spell called ottos dance"(realy dude cause in the 6 years i played ddo i never heard of it erp derp)

anyways this continued into tells from him that he has oneshotted a priestess without them healing and ddowki is wrong yada yada.

i told him "but ya ur attitude is outragous gl keeping frineds on this server.

i see his lfm's now n then alway one or 2 guys at most and never the same people.

[Vint]

Lazy, and don't feel like teaching? or explaining anything to anyone? they just want 2 get through the map and get back to sad existence.
[/COLOR]

Could it be said that puggers are "lazy" for not knowing or learning the quest? I did not know it was the responsibility or duty of the community to mentor.

Yes it is lame and pure BS that someone would refuse to answer a simple question, but you run into all types in this game.

[Ague]

The really sad part is that most everyday that I play now, I look at the LFM's and a good chunk of them seem to be overly picky and'or down right rude... The part that I really don't get is that same person that's posting the LFM and being a d-bag used to be a noobie once upon a time, and I bet nobody was a tool bag to him/her... Bottom line for me is that I avoid joining most LFM's and just post my own on my own terms. Normally my LFM's are for only a specific class anyways, as I do the majority of my questing in guild groups...

/opinion on

I can understand, however, wanting to link a DB item for a quest that's chock full of beholders, but the guy the OP was talking about was, IMO, was being a straight d-bag. It wouldn't have surprised me if his/her d-baggery led the party to a failure. A good chunk of LFM's that I've joined where the leader was overly....picky....have ended up that way.

I don't mind EVER guiding/assisting/teaching new players or players that may not have as much experience with the quest as I do. We all started somewhere. And I will ALWAYS accept someone who asks the location of the quest giver over the typical "Share plz" that everyone does nowadays. It shows that the player wants to educate themselves on the quest. :cool:

/opinion off

[fartlord]

are the servers realy that populated to be so dimissing of people?

im pretty sure the last 80 people i have played with are actuly 8 people on dif chars.

the "pros" should keep that in mind next time theyfeel like being a dusche to people : P

[9Crows]

like most have stated they did you a favor ... most pugs are fun ....if i get in a bad one i just finish the job and dont quest with them again....engaging in conversations with people like that is usally alot more frustrating than just simply ignoring them....lfms that say.. have a clue, link blah blah ,no scrubs and other assorted warning signs are best avoided

[DoctorWhofan]

Fine...I'll start running more PuGs again.

"The goddess of TS is holding court in...XYZ quest, I like loot. New players are welcomed."

[Meetch1972]

I still can't decide whether DB means deathblock or devil beater in the context from the OP... I'd link my optic nerves anyway - if the DB with the star doesn't know where they come from (yes I know they can be bought - but they do cost a lot of pp!), it's their loss. :D Unfortunately not everyone with a clue can do that...

As for the "have a clue" and "need guide" in the same LFM... IMO they can coexist - need guide simply means "I don't know the quest." but have a clue means "Know how to get yourself out of the trouble you run into" which is a generic skill based on game mechanics knowledge rather than specific quest knowledge.

Just sayin'. :)

[Kawai]

Could it be said that puggers are "lazy" for not knowing or learning the quest? I did not know it was the responsibility or duty of the community to mento.

Ahh.. and here is one now ^^^^ :rolleyes:

Ask him your questions peoples .:p

[Vint]

Ahh.. and here is one now ^^^^ :rolleyes:

Ask him your questions peoples .:p

I have no problem helping or offering advice when needed.

When people decide that I HAVE to help out someone, or insists that I should play on their terms I do get pi$$ed. Could care less if you or anyone else likes it.

I do not go out of my way to pick fights with anyone. It is peoples own incompetence that is holding them back, not me.

[Kawai]

I have no problem helping or offering advice when needed.

When people decide that I HAVE to help out someone, or insists that I should play on their terms I do get pi$$ed. Could care less if you or anyone else likes it.

I do not go out of my way to pick fights with anyone. It is peoples own incompetence that is holding them back, not me.

Im sorry? where has it been posted in this thread that you would have to, or be insisted upon doing anything? Or... we're u simply trolling? :confused:

[vegabond1969]

Two terrible runs today of some lowbie quests. First was an STK on Elite. Seemed to start alright until we got to part 2. Our cleric was new and fo'd out instead of going through. I didnt pay attention until we got to the gate. She came back in but was totally lost. I went back to get her and lead her through. The party leader sends me a tell and says "Don't worry about them, you can heal us just as easily." I was on my bard and my response was that it didn't seem right to leave the new player running in circles and not learning the quest. He responded in open chat, "Well if they don't know the quest why did they join the group?"

Second run was a Splinterskull run, my wife and I usually start with that on new toons. I suggested we get a group and she reluctantly agreed. So I put up a simple LFM, Splinterskull Elite- No Zergs- Have pack or ViP. Sure enough, we get another bard in the group, he doesn't help with buffs, buffs himself, haste and gone. 6Bard/1 Barbarian HORC. About midway through the chain, everyone is trying to keep pace with him and I'd mentioned it a few times that we wasn't trying to break a speed record. Well he dies and immediately we are all noobs, the cleric is useless, and I'm a terrible party leader. He DC'd and we finished just fine. Despite the fact that in both of those, we finished okay, I felt very put off by how PUGs seem to go these days.

[Vint]

all of the above apply. :rolleyes:

and 2 b concise?


Lazy, and don't feel like teaching? or explaining anything to anyone? they just want 2 get through the map and get back to sad existence. :( Lemmings. Monkey see? Monkey do. Now they r coolboiz, mannnnn! :cool: ~As IF.
Avoid like plague. As in per above? when sezzy "Have Clue, Need Guide"? Yea, those? Track littleboi down and serve up Pumpk'n to shoulders. :D

And, as already stated all over forum?
Start your own... Put in title "All Welcome".
It will fill. :)




I have a sad existance because of this?

I am not trying to troll the OP, as I stated that this was BS for someone to talk to them this way.

When you chimed in that I have a "sad existance" because are playstyles are different, I will not troll, but I will tell you that you are wrong.

[Kawai]

I have a sad existance because of this?

I am not trying to troll the OP, as I stated that this was BS for someone to talk to them this way.

When you chimed in that I have a "sad existance" because are playstyles are different, I will not troll, but I will tell you that you are wrong.

Yes. You misread. Its simply a reason why many list they do not like pugging with people who do not know questy.
It does not imply you have to, nor insist upon it.
If u take exception to it being mentioned? Hmmmmm... :rolleyes:

[BOgre]

Tland PUG scene is pretty healthy at the mo'. Most of the really bad puggers i'd encountered in my first year I never ever see online anymore. I'd guestimate that I recognize at least 50% of the names i see in the mouseovers on the lfm page. Sooo many helpful, friendly, competent, accepting, awesome gamers.
Despite the wealth of bugs, nerfs, lag, and other negative factors affecting the game at the mo, the social aspect is still the healthiest, most fun, worthwhile. DDO's community is by far the best in all of mmo-dom. I don't think I've had to /squelch anyone in months.

so anyways, sorry to the op for her bad experience, but take heart: there are more decent players out there than losers, and the losers don't last long.

[Kawai]

Tland PUG scene is pretty healthy at the mo'. Most of the really bad puggers i'd encountered in my first year I never ever see online anymore. I'd guestimate that I recognize at least 50% of the names i see in the mouseovers on the lfm page. Sooo many helpful, friendly, competent, accepting, awesome gamers.
Despite the wealth of bugs, nerfs, lag, and other negative factors affecting the game at the mo, the social aspect is still the healthiest, most fun, worthwhile. DDO's community is by far the best in all of mmo-dom. I don't think I've had to /squelch anyone in months.

so anyways, sorry to the op for her bad experience, but take heart: there are more decent players out there than losers, and the losers don't last long.

Refreshing to hear. +1 ;)

[Postumus]

Second run was a Splinterskull run, my wife and I usually start with that on new toons. I suggested we get a group and she reluctantly agreed. So I put up a simple LFM, Splinterskull Elite- No Zergs- Have pack or ViP. Sure enough, we get another bard in the group, he doesn't help with buffs, buffs himself, haste and gone. 6Bard/1 Barbarian HORC. About midway through the chain, everyone is trying to keep pace with him and I'd mentioned it a few times that we wasn't trying to break a speed record. Well he dies and immediately we are all noobs, the cleric is useless, and I'm a terrible party leader. He DC'd and we finished just fine. Despite the fact that in both of those, we finished okay, I felt very put off by how PUGs seem to go these days.

Well at least those types self-select and punch out eventually.

My last few PUGs have gone very well so I suppose I'm due for a doozy down the road. Just got to take it in stride and remember that most folks are NOT uptight d-bags, it's just that the d-bags throw such hissy fits that they tend to make more of an impression.

[taurean430]

Hmmm...

I've seen some good and bad pug groups lately. No more or less than any other time I recall. But what strikes me as odd in both the OP and some of the responses is that people are deciding that the group leader in question was some kind of horrible person.

I don't think I'd ever use acronyms to describe equipment that I believe others should have for a run I want to do. And as important as deathblock is in invaders, it's equally important to make sure that your responders know what it is you are asking of them.

A much simpler solution would be to actually spell it out, and perhaps have a couple of items to pass out if needed. Idk, it's what I would have done if pugging it under those conditions.

I do prefer to specify my groups in what I consider to be difficult quests. I wouldn't consider myself to be a noob, newb, vet, or elitist either. I am just a guy playing the game opening an lfm. Even on that note, when running my TR's back to cap in a hurry I always use IP, know the quest, etc. The other side of the issue that the OP brings to the table I can have empathy for though. I've been the party lead in a run specified in the lfm for difficulty where multiple people send me tells asking, "...what diff? Can we do X difficulty instead?" I've had people attempt to start arguments and use offensive language as well. It's frustrating at times. In my mind If I put up I am running for example Temple of Vol Hard farm/ hard selected in the lfm panel and readable in the text/asking for people that know the quest/ then that's what I want. Not what others appear to want to change it to. Much the same as when I am running one of my guys through a divine life and get tells while soloing asking me to abandon what I am doing and come heal their group. As if...

When I join the lfm of another player, I will comply with what is stated. I expect others to do the same or just not bother me at all. I'm busy trying to play, and don't want to spend the majority of that time explaining things or arguing with others via tells.

Also, I do teaching runs. But when I want to, not when someone wants to turn my speed farm into one. It's why the lfm is specified to begin with.

So, while it sounds very much by the read that the lead encountered was negative and unfriendly - I can also understand how people get those cranktastic moments. Though I freely admit that clarifying the expectation posted in the lfm should be done always if needed. Not everyone knows every acronym present in this game. I sure don't...

[bartharok]

Most of the pugs ive joined have gone pretty well, no great problems, perhaps a few deaths, but no great problems. Twice (and they were in a row) though ive had a cleric join an IP quest (was in necro 2), die in 2 mins, recall and leave group. I found that strange since:

a) those quests are ones where a cleric SHOULD go great

and b) that was two different clerics

[D'arc_Tangent]

I have no clue why people assuming things of other players based off of ONE simple question.'

/snip/

.....




And what is your experience when you put up your own LFMs?

[SirValentine]

There's no cause to be rude to people just because they don't know a quest. They should not be cursing you out or insulting you.

That said, unless they marked it a "learning run", don't join a PuG and expect them to baby-step you to it and through it.

Exploring new content is fun. Taking it slow is sometimes fun. Those are both things I do...SOLO.

If you want to join runs for things you don't know, research them ahead of time, on ddowiki or something. Find out where the quest-giver is, and get it. Find out where the quest is, and go there. Have a rough idea of what to expect inside. And run like heck to keep up and contribute.

Or, as I said, forget the LFM screen, wander around, talk to people, find stuff, explore, take your time...without taking other people's time.

[bartharok]

so, if youre doing something the first time, you should be stressed out and in shape to have fun. That it?

I think that on a first time through you should just tell that its the first time. That way the group can prepare for having to help you out every now and again, and remember to tell you whats coming next, if there is something that you really should know.

Demanding research before the first time is a bit elitist IMO

[Feralthyrtiaq]

"Link your DB, DW, PLIS, SFP(ML11) a H(ope) and a P(rayer)"

CONGRATULATIONS OP!

You made your Saving Throw vs PUG!

[tralfaz81]

*meh* I'm on my third life as a barb. Not even level 10 yet, can already hit 40 on str and have more HP's than the entire party put together. I can hack through almost any quest and know most of them forward and back. I won't join any of the elitist 'send tell of your equipment and/or pots/wands' groups. Their loss, not mine.

On the flip side, the handful of pugs I've had to run this life, I open up to anyone. Been getting a lot of newbs who don't want to listen to instructions/advice. Ran Tear with a group of almost all first lifers, they kept zerging ahead and dying....a lot.

From there I put up a group for the pit. One of the newbs from the previous group asked to join. So I asked the group, 'I have a totally inexperienced Rogue who dies a lot who wants to join, want me to add him for laughs?' Rest of the group agreed.

Turns out when you have a group of 3 people who 'sort' of know the pit and 3 who haven't run it before...it's very ugly. Two hours and like 35 deaths type ugly (even one of the other TR's forgot their FF). As promised, the rogue died a total of 11 or 12 times. But he stuck with it, helped where he could and didn't rage quit. He was one of the few original members of the group to see it through completion.

End of the quest, I gave him 10k PP to 'go buy some pots!' since he ran through most of the quest with ten hit points. Ugliest and probably most fun run of the pit I've ever had.

Moral of the story - its a game. Screw the snobs, have fun. That's my two CP's worth.

[skullzz]

*meh* I'm on my third life as a barb. Not even level 10 yet, can already hit 40 on str and have more HP's than the entire party put together. I can hack through almost any quest and know most of them forward and back. I won't join any of the elitist 'send tell of your equipment and/or pots/wands' groups. Their loss, not mine.

On the flip side, the handful of pugs I've had to run this life, I open up to anyone. Been getting a lot of newbs who don't want to listen to instructions/advice. Ran Tear with a group of almost all first lifers, they kept zerging ahead and dying....a lot.

From there I put up a group for the pit. One of the newbs from the previous group asked to join. So I asked the group, 'I have a totally inexperienced Rogue who dies a lot who wants to join, want me to add him for laughs?' Rest of the group agreed.

Turns out when you have a group of 3 people who 'sort' of know the pit and 3 who haven't run it before...it's very ugly. Two hours and like 35 deaths type ugly (even one of the other TR's forgot their FF). As promised, the rogue died a total of 11 or 12 times. But he stuck with it, helped where he could and didn't rage quit. He was one of the few original members of the group to see it through completion.

End of the quest, I gave him 10k PP to 'go buy some pots!' since he ran through most of the quest with ten hit points. Ugliest and probably most fun run of the pit I've ever had.

Moral of the story - its a game. Screw the snobs, have fun. That's my two CP's worth.

You did what I do all the time. Second chances typically in my groups the people having a hard time ask for advice in the second group when they see they are dying more then the rest.

However if they do not listen to instructions from leader for 2 groups they are put on the mental ignore list.

I have very strict standards for squelch list. I think on all 8 of the alter I play I have 8 different people and Thelanis's "Strong's Only" guy shows up 4 times.

[Chai]

The sad fact is that for many, the game has become a trivial faceroll to level 20 through quests they dont really enjoy playing through, so if there is even a slight setback they will drop group. When those people are leading they try to safeguard against any little hitch whatsoever by trying to vet other players, using any means possible. "You dont understand what my accronym means, you SUUUUUCK" - which is not anything close to true.

The other sad fact they wont admit is that because they lean on gear so much as a crutch, and expect everything to be easy due to that crutch, the minute they run into a quest and die because the "run forward and roflstomp" tactic didnt work, they dont beat the quest using tactics, but rather beat the quest by plowing onto the forums to suggest that it be nerfed to the same easy button level most other quests are sitting at.

[Hendrik]

Avoid bad leaders with stupid quest requirements like the black death.

Nearly half the time they themselves do not even meet the requirements they want.

[tralfaz81]

The sad fact is that for many, the game has become a trivial faceroll to level 20 through quests they dont really enjoy playing through, so if there is even a slight setback they will drop group. When those people are leading they try to safeguard against any little hitch whatsoever by trying to vet other players, using any means possible. "You dont understand what my accronym means, you SUUUUUCK" - which is not anything close to true.

The other sad fact they wont admit is that because they lean on gear so much as a crutch, and expect everything to be easy due to that crutch, the minute they run into a quest and die because the "run forward and roflstomp" tactic didnt work, they dont beat the quest using tactics, but rather beat the quest by plowing onto the forums to suggest that it be nerfed to the same easy button level most other quests are sitting at.

Agreed and hate that trend. Rage quitting is for...well...quitters. I start a quest, I finish the quest. Can run most quest solo in 5-10 minutes, maybe 20 for a really long one where I'm doing all the opts. But if I join a group, I'm going to make it to the end if I have to drink every pot in my inventory and drag myself, nearly dead with broken equipment across the finish line. I find it much more satisfying to finish a quest with a group of inexperienced/ill equipped players than an easy run with OP P2W players. But that's just me.

[bartharok]

me, ive spent tp on siberys cakes in hopeless parties because i dont care how long it takes to finish, or what sacrifices need to be made, i try to ALWAYS finish whatever quest the group is involved in. Its not that i have a problem with failing, its just that i love managing to finish what i start, especially if it is painful. I have noticed a lot of epople out there thinking that "if its not easy its not worth doing" which is odd. I have been taught to think the opposite since i was a kid. And quite often, the people who want it easy get bored of the game and start complaining that its been ruined by the devs.

[redspecter23]

I had no clue what "DB" was and actually had to think about that a bit. Deathblock isn't commonly shortened to that in the circles I run in. I'm a multi TR toon with 5 Silver Flame amulets and I'd also be instantly declined on that basis.

Asking where Reaver's Refuge is could be a bit more of an issue. If the other players are already inside and they assume you don't know how to get there, it would be nearly impossible to describe for you the order of NPC's to talk to and the path you have to run for you to get there in a reasonable time. If you can't get to the quest, they could probably mention in a nicer way that this may not be the run for you. Now as it turns out, you only needed a minor reminder, but the group leader didn't know this.

[Nahiz]

+1 for stating my usual problem with PUGs. The thing is my guild is yet small, so i have to pug. I`ve learnt to avoid this heavy demanding lfm, but I end up a lot waiting for some nice ones (the ones i put up, usually on hard and with and all welcome almost never fill...)

Keep on fighting!

[Vint]

The sad fact is that for many, the game has become a trivial faceroll to level 20 through quests they dont really enjoy playing through, so if there is even a slight setback they will drop group. When those people are leading they try to safeguard against any little hitch whatsoever by trying to vet other players, using any means possible. "You dont understand what my accronym means, you SUUUUUCK" - which is not anything close to true.

The other sad fact they wont admit is that because they lean on gear so much as a crutch, and expect everything to be easy due to that crutch, the minute they run into a quest and die because the "run forward and roflstomp" tactic didnt work, they dont beat the quest using tactics, but rather beat the quest by plowing onto the forums to suggest that it be nerfed to the same easy button level most other quests are sitting at.

What if I admit that I die in every quest and am entirely dependent on my gear? I still enjoy playing the game the way I see fit.

I have already said that I agree with the OP, but how many threads do we need to see like this? It is not new that there are idiots in this game that do all kinds of stuff that rub us the wrong way. We just rehash all the same old rhetoric when we see a thread like this though. Person pi**es you off in a quest, /squelch.

I will stop here and just gather my thoughts. In a week or two we will meet again when someone else post that "bad people play here" and battle it out of who is wrong.

[Chai]

What if I admit that I die in every quest and am entirely dependent on my gear? I still enjoy playing the game the way I see fit.

The issue isnt people enjoying the game, its people trying to act like they can even exclude others from running certain quests due to gear, which isnt true. This mentality comes from a group of people who play this game like its a job, and even the smallest hitch or screw up in a quest has them recalling and dropping group.


I have already said that I agree with the OP, but how many threads do we need to see like this? It is not new that there are idiots in this game that do all kinds of stuff that rub us the wrong way. We just rehash all the same old rhetoric when we see a thread like this though. Person pi**es you off in a quest, /squelch.

Yeap, and Ill add to that people needing to learn what the indicators of a bad group are when reading LFMs. This is of course subjective, according to different playstyles. An LFM asking to link gear (and using an accronym most people dont use, like its some kind of test) to run a basic quest is a red flag. Most people deal with those growing pains a few times when learning what those indicators are.


I will stop here and just gather my thoughts. In a week or two we will meet again when someone else post that "bad people play here" and battle it out of who is wrong.

A week? It will prob be tomorrow. :p

[squishwizzy]

I have no clue why people assuming things of other players based off of ONE simple question.'

To start:
I rarely PUG, because most the time I roll with guildies or my husband, but when no one is on I usually resort to LFMs.

I have a TR character and another character that I am planning on TRing, I play PnP 4 times a month, so I "have a clue". I am geared up pretty sufficiently and my arti is built well.

Lately I am getting sick of the same ol quests, and have been looking for ones I haven't experienced yet. I miss not knowing what to expect around the corner.

I saw an LFM up the other day for Invaders, which I have ran the **** out of in search for the Optic Nerve, and the lfm said "link your db". At that time, I did not know what "db" was so I sent a polite tell to ask so that I could provide the information, and I got some ****cheese response basically telling me I am not worthy of running the quest. Later, after researching it when I was done, I figured out what it was, and my gear was more than sufficient for that run.

Today sent a tell for Monastery of the Scorpion, a simple google search now says it's in Reavers Refuge which I have done quests there before with no problems. At that time, it wasn't ringing a bell. The lfm was asking for a trapper, so I sent a tell letting them know I was interested in joining, and asked if he wouldn't mind telling me where the quest giver is located. He then changed the LFM to say "Have a clue".

So in retrospect I have actually had to wake up from a nap and save my husband and a guild friend because they wiped once in the past.

I have no clue why you people think that a simple question makes a person completely incompetent and a terrible player.

It sucks that I can't ask a simple question and get a straight answer. I have to alt tab, then google it, then see if the LFM is still up because the majority of the people playing are straight D BAGS.

Here's some thoughts:

1) Trust me, you wouldn't want to run with them anyways - seriously. Playing a game with a bunch of self-obsessed dillholes who have a superiority complex over the fact they can control an animation in a virtual world is like rolling in doc feaces to see what you'll smell like. It isn't worth the effort.

2) I, like you, have no idea what "DB" is. Death block? Demon beaters? Decibel? I dunno.

3) I dunno what server you're one, but on G-Land, groups like Mr. "Have a Clue" tend to remain unfilled. The upside is that I'm now seeing a LOT of "Don'e be afraid to join," and "Taking anyone," type groups, and they are generally decent runs. The lack of PUGs, it seems, is either tempering some otherwise voltile personalities, or is bringing out some of the better players who are concerned over what some of us see as a collapse of the social aspects of the game.

Trust me, we all have our stories. This one is one of my favorites:

So, I join a Shroud. And I join one with one of "those guys," who some might consider a tad on the dictatorial side when it comes to leading a PUG. A few Shroud runs have gone bad in the recent past, and I know some people are a little hyper-sensitive about party wipes (to me, it's a frickin' game), and so I just put up with it.

At the entrance we start to gather up for buffs, and the leader says "DO NOT GIVE ME STONESKIN!!!"

Ok. Whatever...

So I start passing out buffs (on my wizzy at the time). A couple of people ask for stoneskin, so I hand it out. No biggie to me.

The group leader comes on the mic, "Who Stoneskinned me?!?" There's a pause. I didn't think I did it, but I might have fat-fingered something, so I fess up.

"Well, I might have done that on accident," I said. I mean, after all, it's just frickin' Stoneskin. Who doesn't want a little DR?

"Do that again and I'll boot you!" He shouts. "I case you didn't know, you NEVER Stone skin a cleric! Never!"

Ummm...Ok?

I apologize, reiterated it was a mistake, and said it won't happen again. But...uh...it was a Shroud. On normal. Phase I of the Shroud. You know, where no one generally dies?

Now I've played this game for a little over a year. This is the *first* time I've ever had anyone complain about getting Stoneskin. There might be something I don't know about the spell. So I decide to ask a few of the guys that have been playing a long time to see if what the group leader for the Shroud said was true: you should never put Stoneskin on a clerirc. To date, no one I've asked can give me an explanation.

However, since then, I've had more than a few clerics now ask me for Stoneskin.

Needless to say, Mr. "Neverstoneskinacleric" is on "The List." I just hope he doesn't have any alts I don't know about....

[BOgre]

I can understand some people not wanting blur/displace (well, just blur nowadays since the displace nerf :( ), as they may be wearing various guards they want to have proc as often as possible.... but stoneskin? When would you not want DR?

[wayreth602]

I can also understand the not wanting blur if you are wearing guards. When I was on my bard life I would ask about blur and who wanted it. After all, they also might have something like bracers of the wind. But stoneskin? If the cleric is getting hit at all and it keeps the cleric alive to heal and do damage it is worth the SP.

[bigolbear]

Op i dont know if this will make you feel better or not but i had the exact same issue a while back.

Group posted for invaders - lfm said nothing but when i applied leader sent me a tell asking me for DB. Now Ive been playing a long time (used to play on devourer server, my forum join date is when i moved). In my circel we dont shorten death block to DB.

So I asked the chap, what do you mean by DB - he said death block, I linked my death block item and got in the group.... and then for my pains had to cary the group to victory because death block is not the same thing as energy drain absorb and a group of noobs should not be doing invaders ELITE at lvl 12, hell its one of the few quests that can realy challenge vets at lvl.

Ammusingly i didnt even wear the ruddy death block item as I had a very relaibel fort save on that toon - 40+ at lvl 12, deathward clickies, and I know how to take out beholders before their antimagic effects me.

[Kawai]

I can understand some people not wanting blur/displace (well, just blur nowadays since the displace nerf :( ), as they may be wearing various guards they want to have proc as often as possible.... but stoneskin? When would you not want DR?

Dunno... i still get berated and cap-locked told im noob for offering to Displace le Tankiez. Usually a Casterboi. :p

As for Stoneskin? No clue. :confused:

[Vint]

Now I've played this game for a little over a year. This is the *first* time I've ever had anyone complain about getting Stoneskin. There might be something I don't know about the spell. So I decide to ask a few of the guys that have been playing a long time to see if what the group leader for the Shroud said was true: you should never put Stoneskin on a clerirc. To date, no one I've asked can give me an explanation.

However, since then, I've had more than a few clerics now ask me for Stoneskin.

Needless to say, Mr. "Neverstoneskinacleric" is on "The List." I just hope he doesn't have any alts I don't know about....

I have been in those types of runs. The caster will give half their mana for buffs, then run out of juice before the third portal is gone. Not saying you are that guy, but as a PL I might get frustrated because of running into to many that play this way.

[bartharok]

the question was whether casting stoneskin on a cleric was a BAD!!! thing to do, not whether someone runs out of mana.

[Kawai]

the question was whether casting stoneskin on a cleric was a BAD!!! thing to do, not whether someone runs out of mana.

:confused:
:confused:
:confused:
:eek:
:p
:D
...he is still having trouble reading. ;)

[wayreth602]

To the OP, I wouldn't worry about that PUG. I think you found an extreme case.

Most of the PUGs I have joined have been fun. Some have even been a laugh.

[Schmoe]

I have already said that I agree with the OP, but how many threads do we need to see like this? It is not new that there are idiots in this game that do all kinds of stuff that rub us the wrong way. We just rehash all the same old rhetoric when we see a thread like this though. Person pi**es you off in a quest, /squelch.

I imagine we'll see these threads for as long as people are rude in the game, at which point someone can come to the forums and find some reassurance from forumites that not everyone in the game is a DB. At least that's my hope...

[Enoach]

I agree, I've had enough people complain about not wanting Blur - Either because of guards or because they wear equipment that grants them this protection. That I now ask if people want/need blur. {Just a note, I wear a torc and a smoke item on my paladin and still find it difficult to run our of SP. So 20% miss is not taking away all that much}

I've also heard don't give monks haste - but that is more because you can't catch them - and if they are halfling then its like trying to chase a leprechaun. :)

I've had monks complain about rage being cast on them. But except for people that just don't like the LOOK of Stoneskin/Barkskin on their character sheet have never heard of a reason why stoneskin should not be cast on a cleric. So I went back to d20 spell description and nope, nothing about movement reduction. So my thinking is this Cleric just liked the look of their character and Stoneskin disrupted the visual appeal.

[Ivan_Milic]

The more you pug the better you will see who is good leader and who sucks,some can be good players but with crappy attitude.

[Tholar]

I run a lot of "healer" types, and have never heard that.

Concordant opposition maybe? Can't get back spell points if not succesfully attacked?

if you have to rely on that to get by, then you are in trouble.

I don't know. Give me a stoneskin anytime.

[IllOracle]

In a six toon or less group, I have absolutely no problem spaming the buffs I have, if there is not a better suited class to do so. In a raid however, I'd ask people to type if they want something. Eleven toons worth of full buffs is quite a drain on my off-destiny 'mana' bar. And, I don't load Stoneskin. I haven't noticed 10 damage either way making a difference when critters are smacking for 100+, 200+, what-have-you damage. I probably have a wand or scroll... *digs around in backpack* but it's not really that helpful in higher content, IMO. *dodges as pies and sharp objects are thrown* Maybe for a cleric or someone really squishy, just maybe.

To the OP, and others... Yep, if it is the attitude of "I'm too good to be bothered with sharing my knowledge" than it's a shame. That grows tiresome quickly and probably, as many have stated, will not be much fun. But, if it's "I'm on a limited time schedule and want to get this done ASAP," I understand it. Sometimes its fun to zerg through a couple of quests with a group like that. *shrugs*

A little patience goes a long way to help someone out. Had a lad join an ADQ run the other day and right off the bat we could tell that they were new or returning. After a moment we got him straighten out with which quest he'd need to run to flag for the pre-raid/raid. I might have avoided the encounter if I put "be flagged," but no one helped me figure that at the time I was starting out.

[Qhualor]

If DB (deathblock) is such a requirement in Invaders, than why do i always see players die so easily in there? I always lol when i see deathblock as needed gear in the lfm, even for Dreams of Insanity. Deathblock item isnt whats going to save your arse in those quests. The Silver Flame necklace or the like is going to do it.

When i wear just a deathblock item in those quests, i die and take a lot more damage easier than if i just wear a SF (Silver Flame) necklace. Thats all i wear in those quests and i never die or take more damage against beholders and hounds. Deathblock, imo, is weak.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Well, let me ask you this:

Knowing what you know now, are you really upset that you did not group with those people?




.... I wouldn't be.


Oh, yes, I know.. it still makes you mad.
Me too. But it's more about that fact that they are there! so many of them! posting LFMs....... not about not joining them.

Waaaayyy better off not joining someone like that IMO.

In fact, I am tempted to /squelch anyone who declines me for stupid reasons.
(unfortunately /squelch does NOT prevent me from seeing their LFMs. :( )


I've been playing here for over six years.
I've done just about every quest. Most of them hundreds of times.
Most of my characters even have some decent gear!
My most often played/oldest characters actually are pretty well geared IMO. Not the best, but far better than the average PUGer.

I guess I'm saying "their loss" if they don't want me in their group.

But more than that, if you are upset about them before you even get in thei rgroup, how much more upset will you be after 30+ minutes with them?

When those idiots refuse you, you are better off IMO.

[WruntJunior]

If DB (deathblock) is such a requirement in Invaders, than why do i always see players die so easily in there? I always lol when i see deathblock as needed gear in the lfm, even for Dreams of Insanity. Deathblock item isnt whats going to save your arse in those quests. The Silver Flame necklace or the like is going to do it.

When i wear just a deathblock item in those quests, i die and take a lot more damage easier than if i just wear a SF (Silver Flame) necklace. Thats all i wear in those quests and i never die or take more damage against beholders and hounds. Deathblock, imo, is weak.

I'll agree here, what usually kills me on beholders is getting neg leveled a couple times then disintegrated (occasionally on a TR, after my SF necklace is empty).

In general, OP, the party leaders you encountered were idiots. They have the right to put up an lfm like that (though them being rude about it when you ask them to clarify is not decent of them), and it could even serve as a helpful reminder type of lfm if they DO clarify; however, for that type of jerk...the /squelch command is there for a reason.

[squishwizzy]

I have been in those types of runs. The caster will give half their mana for buffs, then run out of juice before the third portal is gone. Not saying you are that guy, but as a PL I might get frustrated because of running into to many that play this way.

That ain't me, although I can see where it could be a problem. The other thing you got to consider is that in the first phase of the Shroud a caster's main job is to pretty much spam Wail to kill mobs at portals, make sure that the group is properly hasted (which happens maybe once or twice during that phase) and maybe a disco ball at the portal to keep teleporting mobs occupied. Nine times out of ten I have a bugger of the time landing an effective Wail because either the melees kill everything, or another wizard gets here and wipes them out. So Phase I? I could dump half of my mana in buffs and make it through just fine.

And this Shroud run was on normal. So I could have slapped the mobs to death with my bare hands.

But point taken.


I can understand some people not wanting blur/displace (well, just blur nowadays since the displace nerf :( ), as they may be wearing various guards they want to have proc as often as possible.... but stoneskin? When would you not want DR?


I can also understand the not wanting blur if you are wearing guards. But stoneskin? If the cleric is getting hit at all and it keeps the cleric alive to heal and do damage it is worth the SP.


I agree, I've had enough people complain about not wanting Blur - Either because of guards or because they wear equipment that grants them this protection. That I now ask if people want/need blur. {Just a note, I wear a torc and a smoke item on my paladin and still find it difficult to run our of SP. So 20% miss is not taking away all that much}

But except for people that just don't like the LOOK of Stoneskin/Barkskin on their character sheet have never heard of a reason why stoneskin should not be cast on a cleric. So I went back to d20 spell description and nope, nothing about movement reduction. So my thinking is this Cleric just liked the look of their character and Stoneskin disrupted the visual appeal.


I run a lot of "healer" types, and have never heard that.

I don't know. Give me a stoneskin anytime.

Yeah, pretty much what I heard from everyone else. I guess I can feel "validated" now. ;P

What's funnier is that this guy boasts openly how long he's been playing the game.

They need account-wide squelch lists...

[squishwizzy]

If DB (deathblock) is such a requirement in Invaders, than why do i always see players die so easily in there? I always lol when i see deathblock as needed gear in the lfm, even for Dreams of Insanity. Deathblock item isnt whats going to save your arse in those quests. The Silver Flame necklace or the like is going to do it.

When i wear just a deathblock item in those quests, i die and take a lot more damage easier than if i just wear a SF (Silver Flame) necklace. Thats all i wear in those quests and i never die or take more damage against beholders and hounds. Deathblock, imo, is weak.

+1 (to some extent).

Just ran it the other night on elite in a PUG with another wizzy of mine, and he has a robe with Deathblock. I got killed twice when we got to various groups of Beholders. Neg lvled, feebleminded, disintigrated...dead.

Of course it really didn't help that the certain members of the group were moving a breakneck speed (and dying pretty much at the same rate) to engage anything and everything in front of them. But a win is still a win I guess.

[Schmoe]

When i wear just a deathblock item in those quests, i die and take a lot more damage easier than if i just wear a SF (Silver Flame) necklace. Thats all i wear in those quests and i never die or take more damage against beholders and hounds. Deathblock, imo, is weak.


So in order to run a level 11 quest, you're suggesting that someone should wear an item that must be upgraded in a level 12 quest that requires extensive flagging and multiple upgrades? I don't see that as a very realistic requirement.

[dirtphillips]

OP, your post reminds me of the reasons my wife hates PUG's. She's worse in that she won't let me post LFMs when we run stuff as she hates the drama that sometimes happens with puggers. When I'm on alone, I enjoy hitting up any old LFM and helping the team/being a guide for a newer player. Just accept that some players in this game are jerks. You clearly are a competent player, don't let them get to you.

To the other posters who put up LFMs and are not intending them to be a teaching run, please state so in the LFM so there is less drama.

[TrinityTurtle]

If DB (deathblock) is such a requirement in Invaders, than why do i always see players die so easily in there? I always lol when i see deathblock as needed gear in the lfm, even for Dreams of Insanity. Deathblock item isnt whats going to save your arse in those quests. The Silver Flame necklace or the like is going to do it.

When i wear just a deathblock item in those quests, i die and take a lot more damage easier than if i just wear a SF (Silver Flame) necklace. Thats all i wear in those quests and i never die or take more damage against beholders and hounds. Deathblock, imo, is weak.

I think people have a deathblock/beholder mental connection, and have forgotten that while deathblock will save you from it's slay living, it won't do a darn thing for you against their rather mean disintegrates. I have run that quest without bothering to get deathblock plenty of times, and didn't die any less than with it. Those optic nerve things I have forgotten the exact name or or the pale lavender ioun stones would probably make your day in there better than db.

And for the record, despite three years playing this game and having done every quest that exists multiple times (is my favor *****ness showing?) I also had to really stop and think what db was. LOL

[Qhualor]

So in order to run a level 11 quest, you're suggesting that someone should wear an item that must be upgraded in a level 12 quest that requires extensive flagging and multiple upgrades? I don't see that as a very realistic requirement.

im not suggesting anything, but if i would suggest something, than yes. silver flame necklace is the better choice.

there are other choices:

mantle of the worldshaper lvl 5 (5 charges)
scarab of spell absorption no min lvl (50 charges) but never tried it in Invaders or Dreams of Insanity
pale lavender ioun stone lvl 2 (20 charges suppressed or 50 charges unsuppressed)
beholder optic nerves lvl 7 (8 charges)
silver flame amulet lvl 5 (1 charge), pendant lvl 9 (5 charges), talisman lvl 11 (10 charges)

those are off the top of my head. invaders is a lvl 12 quest, so no need to worry about not meeting the level requirements. except for the mantle, the rest arent exclusive and can have as many as you want to switch out when charges are depleted. silver flame amulet i think you can only get once per life.

[tankerschnitzl]

As for the experience of the OP, the people you are refering to are what I call elitists. These are people that have likely played so much they think they are better than everyone else. They act this way because likely they were picked on and/or beaten up alot as kids (and possibly still as adults in some cases) and it makes them feel superior because the alternative is to find a nice, quiet, dark corner and curl up in the fetal position dreading the next butt-whipping coming their way (or remembering the last one as the case may be). They are also likely living in their parents basement wearing microwave burrito stained wifebeaters and boxes, sitting in the dark, double boxing DDO while simultaneously watching kiddie pron with the volume down so mommy and daddy don't hear it.

Of course I could be exaggerating a bit but that is the mental picture I get when I encounter an elitist. It's a game, elitist jack-rods. Don't act like you're a bada$$ because you have nothing better to do than play it 10x more than the rest of us.


Well done. This mental image should help with brushing things off next time. Thanks.


Could it be said that puggers are "lazy" for not knowing or learning the quest? I did not know it was the responsibility or duty of the community to mentor.

It was not a matter of knowing the quest or needing a mentor.



It is peoples own incompetence that is holding them back, not me.
....aaaaand done.


And what is your experience when you put up your own LFMs?
My experience is fine. I always respond to tells politely, even recently when I was running mindsunder, almost wiped responding to a tell. The mindsunder was just about finished off, and I held off till the person could make it in to get the completion. I always help and always answer questions.



OP, your post reminds me of the reasons my wife hates PUG's. She's worse in that she won't let me post LFMs when we run stuff as she hates the drama that sometimes happens with puggers. When I'm on alone, I enjoy hitting up any old LFM and helping the team/being a guide for a newer player. Just accept that some players in this game are jerks. You clearly are a competent player, don't let them get to you.

To the other posters who put up LFMs and are not intending them to be a teaching run, please state so in the LFM so there is less drama.
My husband generally hates PuGs. We always seem to get stuck with people that talk to us like we don't know what we are doing, telling us how to play. Just as equally annoying, some 4chan kid telling you how to play the game.





Asking where Reaver's Refuge is could be a bit more of an issue. If the other players are already inside and they assume you don't know how to get there, it would be nearly impossible to describe for you the order of NPC's to talk to and the path you have to run for you to get there in a reasonable time. If you can't get to the quest, they could probably mention in a nicer way that this may not be the run for you. Now as it turns out, you only needed a minor reminder, but the group leader didn't know this.

I wasn't asking where Reaver's was. I know where it is. Have done plenty of S/E/R's and quests there, I just simply needed to know what location the quest giver was in.


I imagine we'll see these threads for as long as people are rude in the game, at which point someone can come to the forums and find some reassurance from forumites that not everyone in the game is a DB. At least that's my hope...

That was the ultimate purpose of this. I thought it would go one of two ways "GTFO NEWB" or this. :) Glad it went well, and thanks for all the responses. It's nice to know I am not alone, and I hope some people will change their ways in responding to questions in game. I am sure they will always be lurking, but it's good to know that there are more friendly ddo-ers than not. Thank you all, and best of luck to you in Eberron.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The issue isnt people enjoying the game, its people trying to act like they can even exclude others from running certain quests due to gear, which isnt true. This mentality comes from a group of people who play this game like its a job, and even the smallest hitch or screw up in a quest has them recalling and dropping group.



Yeap, and Ill add to that people needing to learn what the indicators of a bad group are when reading LFMs. This is of course subjective, according to different playstyles. An LFM asking to link gear (and using an accronym most people dont use, like its some kind of test) to run a basic quest is a red flag. Most people deal with those growing pains a few times when learning what those indicators are.



A week? It will prob be tomorrow. :p


Dang I wish I could hand out more rep in this thread!

(not for attacking Vint... but for the things you said in general...)
(The attacking Vint part was just a bonus. :cool: )














(JK about that last part btw)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I've done Invaders more often without a Deathblock item then with one... (the price for playing a thousand alts... :p )

... and rarely missed it.


For Beholders in general it only protects against one of their attacks.
If a Beholder gets me it is usually because of the neg levels that reduce my saves to nil first, then some other attack that takes me out.

The Hounds can get numerous in their though, and if several go for the PK at the same time, deathblock can be kinda valuable.

of course...... my prefered way to get through Invaders is NOT to agro to much at once, but some parts of it are difficult to pull that off in.

However, most of th edeaths I see in Invaders is just from to much agro... not a specific type of attack, but several at once.

Beholders debuff, reavers slice and throw cold shards on the ground (which someone always breaks to help damage everyone. :rolleyes: )

Hounds toss their stuff and Elf chics join in as well.

That's what kills people! Too many mobs at once!

Yeah, a few people die from random "1" throughout the quest. But that's just how it is.
People are gonna die in Invaders....

deathblock or no deathblock.... not much difference.
Helps a little of course. But if someone thinks that makes a big difference, I would argue that they are the noob.....

It is more useful on low fort save characters though.
Casters might be able to stay back, but Rogues will probably want deathblock in there....lol
Others seldom need it IMO.

[Postumus]

I've done Invaders more often without a Deathblock item then with one... (the price for playing a thousand alts... :p )

... and rarely missed it.


For Beholders in general it only protects against one of their attacks.
If a Beholder gets me it is usually because of the neg levels that reduce my saves to nil first, then some other attack that takes me out.



Echoes my sentiments almost exactly. I rarely remember or bother to switch to a deathblock item just for invaders or jungle of kyhber.

I'd certainly never turn someone away from the PUG for not having a 'DB' item, but then I don't put those sorts of restrictions in my LFMs.

Besides, DB, HF, GFL, KI, DD, NG, and BYOH are implied in 'All Welcome' anyway, aren't they?

[ZeebaNeighba]

There is not a single quest that I have done in a pug that required "send tell with blah blah blah" or something like that, and wiped in every other pug...really I never see a big difference in success rates, with only two exceptions (one was back when the level cap was 20 anyway, I used to put up a lot of elite HoX groups just for fun and I thought first timers wouldn't mind too much if I excluded them mostly, since there were lots of hard groups that appeared that were much more newb-friendly), the other is Abbot, where "send tell with puzzle" is just too good of a way to get it all sorted out. Also my first couple abbot runs I did get into groups simply sending a tell saying I was a first timer, I believe that's more of an organization thing than excluding newbs.

[Vint]

Dang I wish I could hand out more rep in this thread!

(not for attacking Vint... but for the things you said in general...)
(The attacking Vint part was just a bonus. :cool: )

(JK about that last part btw)

I lub you too.

I guess it is a good thing I am not worried about my reputation or caring what people think of me.


Off topic

Some of threads I read anymore are no different than all the DOOM threads that we read. Really, there are jerks that play this game? People really do get booted for having low hp? People do get booted for asking for a share? I would never have known that from the 1000 other pages of threads.

Am I missing the point? Do people post here to get their ego lifted? Are they looking for emotional counseling after their time of grief?

[Raithe]

When i wear just a deathblock item in those quests, i die and take a lot more damage easier than if i just wear a SF (Silver Flame) necklace.

OMG. You are missing your control for this experiment. Any silver flame necklace upgraded to the point it provides enough charges to be effective in Invaders (i.e., more than one charge) ALSO has deathblock on it.

As someone who has solo'd Invaders countless times when the level cap was 16 (on hard, typically) as well as solo'd extensively in the Subterrane for fun, I can inform anyone and everyone that Deathblock is highly desirable whenever you fight beholders. Yes, you will roll a one, approximately one in twenty times you need to make a save. There is no other defense for rolling a one against Finger of Death, other than deathblock.

Spell absorption items will work fine until they run out of charges, which will be sooner rather than later. The silver flame necklace works so well because it has Deathblock and will only absorb enervation rays. Other items will absorb so many other things you won't get them to last between shrines.

Also: Don't try to join discriminating LFMs. It's the only discrimination you yourself should practice.

[Qhualor]

OMG. You are missing your control for this experiment. Any silver flame necklace upgraded to the point it provides enough charges to be effective in Invaders (i.e., more than one charge) ALSO has deathblock on it.

As someone who has solo'd Invaders countless times when the level cap was 16 (on hard, typically) as well as solo'd extensively in the Subterrane for fun, I can inform anyone and everyone that Deathblock is highly desirable whenever you fight beholders. Yes, you will roll a one, approximately one in twenty times you need to make a save. There is no other defense for rolling a one against Finger of Death, other than deathblock.

Spell absorption items will work fine until they run out of charges, which will be sooner rather than later. The silver flame necklace works so well because it has Deathblock and will only absorb enervation rays. Other items will absorb so many other things you won't get them to last between shrines.

Also: Don't try to join discriminating LFMs. It's the only discrimination you yourself should practice.

i as well have solo'd Invaders many times and ive run it with deathblock, without deathblock and with just 1 silver flame necklace and no other source of spell absorption.

most times, my death has been because of either wearing just a deathblock item or without one. never have i died from wearing a silver flame necklace when fighting beholders.

its not a good idea for most to use just 1 spell absorption item, but ive done it many times. often i might have 1 charge left before shrining for the end fight. i guess it depends how you play the quest.

[tankerschnitzl]

I lub you too.

I guess it is a good thing I am not worried about my reputation or caring what people think of me.


Off topic

Some of threads I read anymore are no different than all the DOOM threads that we read. Really, there are jerks that play this game? People really do get booted for having low hp? People do get booted for asking for a share? I would never have known that from the 1000 other pages of threads.

Am I missing the point? Do people post here to get their ego lifted? Are they looking for emotional counseling after their time of grief?

Good for you for not caring about what others think of you. Nor do I care about what you think of me or others.

Frankly, you are being a jerk.

You have the choice to read a thread and ignore it. If you have no positive input in the conversation and just want to troll around, then do us all a favor butt out of the conversation.

[Vint]

Good for you for not caring about what others think of you. Nor do I care about what you think of me or others.

Frankly, you are being a jerk.

You have the choice to read a thread and ignore it. If you have no positive input in the conversation and just want to troll around, then do us all a favor butt out of the conversation.

I agreed with you that there are jerks that play this game, and that this was a BS reason to boot someone.

What else do you want? What else would be constructive to you? Do you want validated that you are a good person or player? Do you want the forum foke to pat you on the back and tell you it will be alright?

Edit If you did not care, you would not bring your "troubles" to the forums.

[Vellrad]

I have been in those types of runs. The caster will give half their mana for buffs, then run out of juice before the third portal is gone. Not saying you are that guy, but as a PL I might get frustrated because of running into to many that play this way.

Thats not me, I only cast essential merfolks, and spend all my mana on negative energy rays ;)

[ThePrisoner]

You're absolutely right. Some of the people who play this game are impatient, poor communicators, and socially clueless.

I used to squelch people who wrote "have a clue" in their LFMs automatically, because it is a very strange, unecessarily rude way to say "please know it", and I could only assume that I wouldn't enjoy being in a group with that sort of person.

It's the impersonal nature of the internet. People tend to forget they are communicating with actual people, whether it's in the forums or in the game. It's a problem.

[SlogUK]

People often mistake lack of specialist knowledge with lack of ability. To me, that just flags them up as idiots. They might come back to you from a position of assumed strength or superiority, but chances are, if a group leader behaves like either of the ones you described over a simple question, you almost certainly don't want to be in his group. There are many ways to skin a cat in ddo, and someone like that values what they know so much they probably don't think outside it. It would only have been a horrible run, with him criticising everyone's build, linking his ubber gear, playing solely for the kill count, and rage quitting when he gets killed.

[bartharok]

I agreed with you that there are jerks that play this game, and that this was a BS reason to boot someone.

What else do you want? What else would be constructive to you? Do you want validated that you are a good person or player? Do you want the forum foke to pat you on the back and tell you it will be alright?

Edit If you did not care, you would not bring your "troubles" to the forums.

you know vint, even jerks can hate jerks. Sometimes people just need to vent so they dont turn into bitter old b******s. Me i dont have to fear becoming one since im usually too angry to become bitter, all i can become is oldER, and some people have called me a bastard since i was 7. How about you?

[Vint]

you know vint, even jerks can hate jerks. Sometimes people just need to vent so they dont turn into bitter old b******s. Me i dont have to fear becoming one since im usually too angry to become bitter, all i can become is oldER, and some people have called me a bastard since i was 7. How about you?

You are right. I do apologize to the OP if they were offended by what I said. I do understand their anger and am agreeing with them that there are bad people that play this game.

I guess that I am too bitter as well. Seeing all these posts about this topic have made me bitter. I realized that noone else is responsible for my fun and if I want to have fun I will need to make it happen myself.

I have joined many "zerg" LFM's and had flower sniffers join, and I have been in "learning groups" and had zerjers join and ruin the party. It will never go away. There will always be dbags everywhere in the game.

One thing to you though Bartharok. If I wanted to vent and make a thread about a 300 hp toon joining my EE web and dieing 15 times, would everyone be nice to me for venting? (This is an example. Could care less about hp).

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

About the OP's experience :

... I have a Death Block item (assuming DB means that) - but if I had linked it, he would have read its name in German language (I'm using the German-language UI).

Would he have kicked me ?

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Not everyone knows every acronym present in this game. I sure don't...

I have even added - personally - a few of them after to the Wiki reading them here in the forums.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

im not suggesting anything, but if i would suggest something, than yes. silver flame necklace is the better choice.

there are other choices:

mantle of the worldshaper lvl 5 (5 charges)
scarab of spell absorption no min lvl (50 charges) but never tried it in Invaders or Dreams of Insanity
pale lavender ioun stone lvl 2 (20 charges suppressed or 50 charges unsuppressed)
beholder optic nerves lvl 7 (8 charges)
silver flame amulet lvl 5 (1 charge), pendant lvl 9 (5 charges), talisman lvl 11 (10 charges)

those are off the top of my head. invaders is a lvl 12 quest, so no need to worry about not meeting the level requirements. except for the mantle, the rest arent exclusive and can have as many as you want to switch out when charges are depleted. silver flame amulet i think you can only get once per life.

Isn't a Cleric able to "heal" negative levels, too ?

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

An not uninteresting Gamasutra article perhaps bringing new light onto the OP's problem : http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/179563/Misogyny_in_games_Stats_and_sexism.php#.UIaQ2GJXxI 4

[bartharok]

You are right. I do apologize to the OP if they were offended by what I said. I do understand their anger and am agreeing with them that there are bad people that play this game.

I guess that I am too bitter as well. Seeing all these posts about this topic have made me bitter. I realized that noone else is responsible for my fun and if I want to have fun I will need to make it happen myself.

I have joined many "zerg" LFM's and had flower sniffers join, and I have been in "learning groups" and had zerjers join and ruin the party. It will never go away. There will always be dbags everywhere in the game.

One thing to you though Bartharok. If I wanted to vent and make a thread about a 300 hp toon joining my EE web and dieing 15 times, would everyone be nice to me for venting? (This is an example. Could care less about hp).

Well in my case whether id be nice or not would depend on the amusement value of the thread itself. My point was just that you shouldnt allow yourself to become bitter (the older bit is something none can help, yet at least)

[Ushurak]

I know it has been said by others but I will say it for myself.

I have not been playing for the entire life of DDO but I have been playing for 4 years of its life and at the age of 38 I DID NOT grow up in the computer age...I transitioned into it. "Chat-speak" is still relatively new for me which means that I am all the time coming across acronyms that I have no clue what they mean...especially in the game.

I also have brain farts and sometimes forget what or where a quest is even though I have done it dozens, hundreds or thousands of times.

I have also came across the same people that are described by the OP that treat you like the scum of the Earth for not remembering or not knowing.

There is a way to politely keep the inexperienced/under-equipped players out of your group.
"Hey man, Don't want to sound rude but we are running with no healer and everyone is self sufficient. Are you self sufficient? Ya' know...curse/disease/poison pots and some form of heals that will keep up with the damage? If not then I can't let you in?"

I had to do this last night in GH. We were actually wanting a Divine but none were hitting and everyone else was self-sufficient TRs so even though it wasn't posted as BYOH/Self-sufficient, we had no choice but to ask the last guy that hit if they were SS and if not we would not allow them to stay in group. Just so happens that he was a TR that was SS but thanked us anyway for handling it with tact and ended up making another TR buddy...great guy, easy to run with, knows the game...See...there are a few of us left.

Also, to ask for someone to link a deathblock item is just ludicrous...at lvl 12, all but the newest of the new will have it and even most of the newest will probably have it at least on armor or something.

I can somewhat see linking your Harry beater or something (this is almost gone with the advent of the Arti though).
I also personally do not worry too much about hp either. We are int he age of extreme reflex builds...this means they can do the same job with far fewer hp...they are not getting hit which more than makes up for hp...though I still make my builds con builds :D.