Siren song seems really lame. Am I missing something?

[psteen1]

Yesterday I was complaining about dirge. Today, Siren's song, as I am slowly making my way up the fatesinger tree. Now before you think I'm just a hater, I want to go on record saying I really like reign, aria, the exalted angel echo, and the ability to stack 50% sonic vulnerability. I think the sonic vulnerability is awesome and now just wish there were more ways to do sonic damage.

But for Siren's song and the associated chord of disruption, I just don't get it. It is a single target mez, that is basically a death sentence on the unfortunate mob who gets it, but it doesn't touch red names. Any trash that I am going to put this on will be dead a lot faster if I just swing at him.

Now, if chord of disruption was an AOE upon the siren's song ending, I would see that as quite valuable.

So is this ability worth spending 6 points on to max it out? Do you think it is worthless? Do you use it, and how?

[sandypaws]

When I use it, I use it against orange nameds. It can also be useful to peel off one or two critters on eE. On ehard or lower, it's not worth as much imo.

[cru121]

well, it's like Otto's Irresistible Dance without a SR check. And a bunch of damage at the end. The final sonic damage works also against bosses.

[psteen1]

well, it's like Otto's Irresistible Dance without a SR check. And a bunch of damage at the end. The final sonic damage works also against bosses.

So on red names, there is no CC or constitution drain, but after 12 seconds he will be hit for the large sonic damage? Is there any visual indications to show that the song hit him?

[cru121]

mob's red bar will move...

[darkovac]

Against the group of mobs I put Siren's Song on one (usualy healer) and beat the others. Healer usually dies from chord of disruption. I found this totally useless on EH in good groups because those healers dies in same amount of time it takes me to sing Siren's Song.

Also I always use it against Orange named and sometimes on red/purple named for additional 1000 or so dmg from Chord of disruption.

P.S. without Chord of Disruption I find that Siren's Song is quite useless.

[psteen1]

Against the group of mobs I put Siren's Song on one (usualy healer) and beat the others. Healer usually dies from chord of disruption. I found this totally useless on EH in good groups because those healers dies in same amount of time it takes me to sing Siren's Song.

Also I always use it against Orange named and sometimes on red/purple named for additional 1000 or so dmg from Chord of disruption.

P.S. without Chord of Disruption I find that Siren's Song is quite useless.

So would a good way to go about taking this ability be to take one point in siren's song (since the con drain seems a little useless), and put three points into chord of disruption?

[Chai]

Depends on the content you play and the bard build.

If you play EN and EH but barely see EE, /meh.

If you have alot of songs and play EE enough it can be worth it. Mobs have inflated HP out the wazoo and anything that insta kills is going to help, even if it makes the doomed mob wait in the lobby until its number is called.

[darkovac]

So would a good way to go about taking this ability be to take one point in siren's song (since the con drain seems a little useless), and put three points into chord of disruption?

Off course CON drain is not useless but I used Siren's Song before I got Chord and after and to me difference is huge. Beside CON dmg there is lower cooldown for each rank of Siren's Song, and I believe (not 100% sure) that you can't have more ranks in Chord of Disruption than Siren's Song.

In EH VON5/6 none of the mobs that I have put Siren's Song on have ever lived more that 5-6 seconds after that (barbs and casters kill them fast), haven't played on EE (I'm gimpy 28pt build with not so good gear) yet so can't talked about that. But in some solo plays I think I wouldn't manage to finish without it.

I would specially mention "Lava Caves: Colossal Crystals", a lot of orange named there but combination of Siren's Song and Irresistible dance helps me solo it easily. Also I have noticed Orange named giant casters cast Heal on themselves after charm is ended.

[Coyopa]

So would a good way to go about taking this ability be to take one point in siren's song (since the con drain seems a little useless), and put three points into chord of disruption?

You have to put three points into Siren's Song to get three points into Chord of Disruption.

EDIT:

This is the way I'm building my bard's (Virtuoso) Fatesinger tree:

3x Allure
1x Music of the Spider Queen
3x Dirge

3x Lucidity

3x Siren's Song
3x Reign
1x Aria
Echoes of the Ancestors: Arcane (Magister)

3x Chord of Disruption

2x Fragment of the Song: Clarity

EDIT EDIT: This should make Dirge last around 50s for me.

[Tiseria]

I love it. Sirens+Dirge+ sit back pew pew, disco, hold and heal.

[psteen1]

You have to put three points into Siren's Song to get three points into Chord of Disruption.

EDIT:

This is the way I'm building my bard's (Virtuoso) Fatesinger tree:

3x Allure
1x Music of the Spider Queen
3x Dirge

3x Lucidity

3x Siren's Song
3x Reign
1x Aria
Echoes of the Ancestors: Arcane (Magister)

3x Chord of Disruption

2x Fragment of the Song: Clarity

EDIT EDIT: This should make Dirge last around 50s for me.

not even bothering with turn of the tide, eh?

[Coyopa]

Ya, I forgot about Turn of the Tide. Thanks for reminding me! So, it'll actually look like this instead:

3x Allure
1x Music of the Spider Queen
3x Dirge

2x Lucidity

3x Siren's Song
3x Reign
1x Aria
Echoes of the Ancestors: Arcane (Magister)

3x Chord of Disruption

2x Fragment of the Song: Clarity

Turn of the Tide

[RobbinB]

As others have stated, while generally speaking Siren's song is kinda meh, it is extremely strong situationally on certain orange names (and really only for Epic Elite content).

eg. First druid bear in Druid's curse on EE

[Schmoe]

This ability seems to be much more effective in EE content. If you never play EE, it may not be worth it. The reduced cooldown for additional ranks makes additional ranks all the more worthwhile. It's essentially a PWK on a 40-second timer.

[psteen1]

Good feedback from everyone and thanks for helping me see how to use this ability.

Tomorrow expect a rant about bound fate (another epic elite only ability based on its description?? Haven't play with it yet...)

[glowbug]

Orange priestesses of Lloth were what I used it for while passing through fatesinger, and I found it pretty handy

[Raithe]

Tomorrow expect a rant about bound fate (another epic elite only ability based on its description?? Haven't play with it yet...)

Let me explain ALL the numerous ways you don't seem to have a clue:

1) You DON'T continue to beat on a mob that has Siren's Song running. THAT is what would be lame, and you can go ahead and call out your team members that do that while there are other mobs to attack. You drop the mob to a point that will barely get them disintegrated when the Chord of Disruption hits (building up sonic vulnerability that will increase the damage). If you don't know how to do that, learn to play.

2) Just because a mob is trash does not mean it isn't dangerous. Casters, in particular, can be DPS-reducing if not outright lethal. Beholders, because they may be limiting healing (and dispel deathward while flicking enervation beams at you). Driders, because they may trip you, Goristros because they may knock you down, etc and so forth.

3) Dirge is a very powerful AoE. One of the best abilities in the game almost akin to Energy Burst. At tier 3 it does over 100 damage every 3 seconds for ~30 seconds. That is approximately 1000 damage on every mob within a much larger range than energy burst hits. If you are using it against a couple of mobs or expecting it to kill bosses in a flash, well, refer to my opening line.

4) Bound fate is just another tool to use in the arsenal of keeping large groups of mobs in check. The cool part is the fairly drastic reducion in SR, which when coupled with improved shattermantle virtually guarantees that you and everything else will be hitting it with spells (for slightly increased damage).

5) Aria is the ability I have no interest in on my bard. Expend a song to get slightly increased spellpower? When I could use that same song to fascinate an entire grouping or literally do 1000's of points of damage without having to use spell points in addition? The 10% additional song duration might be worth it if there weren't drastically better alternatives in Tier 3.

No wonder people think bards are gimp.

[Coyopa]

Let me explain ALL the numerous ways you don't seem to have a clue:

1) You DON'T continue to beat on a mob that has Siren's Song running. THAT is what would be lame, and you can go ahead and call out your team members that do that while there are other mobs to attack. You drop the mob to a point that will barely get them disintegrated when the Chord of Disruption hits (building up sonic vulnerability that will increase the damage). If you don't know how to do that, learn to play.

2) Just because a mob is trash does not mean it isn't dangerous. Casters, in particular, can be DPS-reducing if not outright lethal. Beholders, because they may be limiting healing (and dispel deathward while flicking enervation beams at you). Driders, because they may trip you, Goristros because they may knock you down, etc and so forth.

3) Dirge is a very powerful AoE. One of the best abilities in the game almost akin to Energy Burst. At tier 3 it does over 100 damage every 3 seconds for ~30 seconds. That is approximately 1000 damage on every mob within a much larger range than energy burst hits. If you are using it against a couple of mobs or expecting it to kill bosses in a flash, well, refer to my opening line.

4) Bound fate is just another tool to use in the arsenal of keeping large groups of mobs in check. The cool part is the fairly drastic reducion in SR, which when coupled with improved shattermantle virtually guarantees that you and everything else will be hitting it with spells (for slightly increased damage).

5) Aria is the ability I have no interest in on my bard. Expend a song to get slightly increased spellpower? When I could use that same song to fascinate an entire grouping or literally do 1000's of points of damage without having to use spell points in addition? The 10% additional song duration might be worth it if there weren't drastically better alternatives in Tier 3.

No wonder people think bards are gimp.

Maybe I'll rethink my selections. I'm definitely getting my last free Loom of Destiny on my bard at this point. (And this is exactly why I think resetting destiny points should be near dirt cheap)

[psteen1]

Let me explain ALL the numerous ways you don't seem to have a clue:

1) You DON'T continue to beat on a mob that has Siren's Song running. THAT is what would be lame, and you can go ahead and call out your team members that do that while there are other mobs to attack. You drop the mob to a point that will barely get them disintegrated when the Chord of Disruption hits (building up sonic vulnerability that will increase the damage). If you don't know how to do that, learn to play.

2) Just because a mob is trash does not mean it isn't dangerous. Casters, in particular, can be DPS-reducing if not outright lethal. Beholders, because they may be limiting healing (and dispel deathward while flicking enervation beams at you). Driders, because they may trip you, Goristros because they may knock you down, etc and so forth.

3) Dirge is a very powerful AoE. One of the best abilities in the game almost akin to Energy Burst. At tier 3 it does over 100 damage every 3 seconds for ~30 seconds. That is approximately 1000 damage on every mob within a much larger range than energy burst hits. If you are using it against a couple of mobs or expecting it to kill bosses in a flash, well, refer to my opening line.

4) Bound fate is just another tool to use in the arsenal of keeping large groups of mobs in check. The cool part is the fairly drastic reducion in SR, which when coupled with improved shattermantle virtually guarantees that you and everything else will be hitting it with spells (for slightly increased damage).

5) Aria is the ability I have no interest in on my bard. Expend a song to get slightly increased spellpower? When I could use that same song to fascinate an entire grouping or literally do 1000's of points of damage without having to use spell points in addition? The 10% additional song duration might be worth it if there weren't drastically better alternatives in Tier 3.

No wonder people think bards are gimp.

Thank you for your totally jerky comment. No wonder people lurk on the forums rather than posting questions.

EDIT: Guess I'll point out that you are probably right about siren song, this thread has done well to education me on it's uses. I'm not sure why you attacked me so hard for asking for feedback, but whatever. As for dirge though, I disagree. Sure it does lots of damage, but stretched out over a very long period of time. Only someone soloing who likes to kite, or has a very low DPS output normally, will allow dirge to run its whole course without killing the mobs by other means. Any party will kill trash uber-fast and have no use for it, and solo bards who are able to swing a weapon decently will be able to do more damage with that weapon. It has its place, like playing it as you run into a big group, but no way would I call it a "very powerful AoE."

[Raithe]

Thank you for your totally jerky comment. No wonder people lurk on the forums rather than posting questions.


Right back at you. My response was tailored to your attitude, have no doubt.



As for dirge though, I disagree. Sure it does lots of damage, but stretched out over a very long period of time.

No. The very reason the DoTs (Divine Punishment, Eladar's Electric Surge, Niac's Biting Cold, Dirge, and similar abilities) are so powerful is because they continue to do damage even during the "whitespace" of a battle. People completely underestimate the amount of whitespace that exists in a typical battle, and the whitespace proportion goes up as groupings of mobs get bigger (more time spent mitigating damage, more time maneuvering to avoid taking multiple hits simultaneously, etc).

Just like with Siren's Song, once the mob's lifespan has reached undisputable eventual termination, any continued attack on it is just for personal vanity. In a well-coordinated group, the bard could sing into a large group of mobs and keep on moving past them, at least until the point of green dungeon alert. Since my bard is one of my characters with:

1) The highest saves.
2) Constant displacement.
3) Constant haste
4) Quicken
5) Healing/repair spells and scrolls
and
6) Fascinate

...this also has the benefit of focusing initial aggro where it is least likely to do significant damage, and allows any sneak attack bonuses in the group to apply immediately. Note that there is no evasion save for Dirge, and it covers a very large area so is unlikely to leave any mobs "un-intimidated."

Do I use Dirge all the time in PUGs? No, I don't. But just because uncoordinated groups don't have as much use for an ability does not make the ability weak.

[psteen1]

thanks for posts.

I'm still not crazy about fatesinger, but don't think I came into with a cheeky attitude so I'm not sure what you are talking about saying I deserved your attitude; I professed my dislike and asked people how they play it. I learned a lot. Mission accomplished.

edit: I went back and read the whole posting. There is nothing in here from me that deserves your hostility. I just don't get some people.