Chronoscope elite fear.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

and other "difficult" quests.

Like Proof is in the Poison. and maybe a few others....

Ok, IMO, Chrono elite, at lvl!... is not all that difficult!

For new guys, yes... but why do 3+ lives TRs, with super guild buffs and all the plat they could desire, fear this quest so much?

Why are there so few LFMs to do this for BB?

(and why would anyone join that lvl 4 guy's LFM asking for lvl 10-25s to carry him through it? :confused: )


Now.... assuming you aren't someone who regularly walks through this one with ease, I'll give you a few pointers (pet peaves).

Number 1: a wipe in Chrono (even on epic I believe) is NOT really a wipe!
If everyone dies, all of the soul stones are teleported back to the rez shrine near the Steam Tunnels.

and the vendors inside the bar can repair your stuff!
and sell you CMW pots/wands!

So... why does everyone drop group so easily?

#2: speaking of those CMW pots/wands...
Bring some healing!
No.... not the three lvl 6-8 clerics that wil be out of mana before you even reach the bank!
Bring your own!
You can bring the Clerics too, but low lvl Clerics CANNOT supply all of the healing needs in this quest. (or PiitP btw)

Your on your third+ life, you've got a minimum of 10K plat on you at all times. Go buy some pots ya cheapscate!

You should also have learned to watch your own health bar and learned a few survival techniques in those past lives as well....

this is a tough quest, come prepared, and it is not so bad.

#3: stay together! and play smart.
One guy runing off agroing everything in the market is either gonna die, or get someone else killed.

But if you stay together and gang up on a few thingsd at a time, this quest is almost easy.

No one should die unless fighting a boss.
Ok, I may give you being blasted by a Abishai fireball....
But, seriously, you stay together, kill as you go, gang up on things, and this quest is alot smoother.

#4: buffs
while I kinda hate using other people's guild buffs, this is one quest that I may accept that ship invite for.
30 pt resists sure make this quest a lot easier. and the other stuff healps too.

But bringing any (self) buffs you can get goes a long way in here too.

(don't forget the free buffs from the Twelve guy... depending on difficulty)

House P/J if ya got them.
A lowly resist wand helps some too.

Again, those low lvl casters don't really have the mana to buff everyone, so don't expect them to be you rmain source for buffs.


I guess that is it for my rant...

although I have died in there many times as well, I have also been the last man standing before... and basically kept standing until I ran out of self healing.... Just saying.

No reason experienced players should not be regulary running this one for BB IMO.
(that's "bravery" bonus BTW. :cool: )

[DarkForte]

Because between delera's part 2 and tear, everybody who can do it outlevels it too fast to get a group together.

[Tirisha]

It's not fear, it's purpose.

elite chrono has no loot to be desired.

elite chrono would take too long for the xp acquired.

[Kmnh]

I think elite chrono would be done more often if it were more difficult.

Chrono is at the worst possible spot, it takes too long and is too boring.

[katz]

it's a hard raid at level. but definitely doable (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=393355). ;) :cool:

[mrphlegm]

Yep xp needs to be increased, by alot

[Ivan_Milic]

For me the xp is too low,Ill try to solo it at lvl on elite someday,did someone do it before?

[Raithe]

It's not fear, it's purpose.
elite chrono has no loot to be desired.
elite chrono would take too long for the xp acquired.

So Shadow Crypt it is, till you are bored stiff and eyes are burned out by firewall and luminescent phase spider graphics...

For those of me whose purpose is fun, elite chrono is not on my to-do list. I simply don't plan on running anything "elite" ever again, unless coerced by someone else.

Chrono hard... sure, anytime I'm level 7.

[goodspeed]

The reason is it's an annoying quest. And yes people do run it, alone.

The quest is like the pit. Theirs people that can do it, and pikers that usually wander a couple hours around it.

So when I think, I should run through it, I think should I put a group box up? Or just save 10% xp and not have to listen to some moron whine in text or worse they were smart enough to get a microphone working going on and on about the unfairness of the game because they suck at it.

So you see it's still ran. It's just that inviting other people along give the quest the same heart warming feeling of having to sit in the DMV.

Although I do admit it, I like to join those BB elite chrono raids and watch em drop like flys out in the city, let alone when bloodplate starts to wail on em.

[teh_meh]

Don't forget to factor in simply burn-out. While acknowledging that it is a great raid for the game and people were jazzed to run it when it dropped, that puppy has been milked heavily for a long time now.

After sinking probably 400 epic dungeon tokens into 2 e-abishai sets...and then watching MotU gear trivialize it instantly, I can't stomach going in there any more.

[LOOON375]

I recall seeing maybe 10 or so Chrono elite, at level lfms during the entire time I have been playing this game. It could be more, and it could be less. I just know that it is a super rarity.

And I always blow threw those levels before any are posted for my level. And if they are posted, they are "loot runs" 6-25. 6-20 before MOTU.

I would rather run the old epic or EE than run it at level on elite. It's just not worth it.

If you are looking for a challenge, then by all means put one up. And you have to remember that a ton of people hitting those lfms might be new or newer to the game.

For a new player, they probably just see it as another level 6 quest.

[wayreth602]

Good info Talon. +1

I have done the raid and been the last one standing as well. As a bard I sang a song and the boss ran away (actually a lucky crit but a doc who reference never hurts).

[Dandonk]

I don't do chrono at level.

Why, you ask?

1) Takes too long to get a group for it.
2) Lots of other xp around that level.
3) Want to save it for epic levels anyway.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

So.... what I got out of these responses was:

Chrono is boring.
running some high XP quest 50 times in a row is a lot more fun. :(






Well to be fair, I suppose most people do pass by lvl 8 rather quickly.
I guess that is a valid excuse.

I'm probably a rare one since I have sooo many alts. Most people stick to a few and TR. So yeah, I can see how most people just don't get around to it.

I don't buy the "boring" comments though.

It does take along time to fill though. Although I would just start with a few people instead of waiting forever...

... that is, "if" those few people would start with me.
cause I've seen people absolutely refuse to do it without a Cleric (or three)....

anyway, I've seen enough to make me think that many players "are" scared of this one.



For me, I see a lot of monsters spawning in the first fight. Most are easy, but togather they could be tough if you do not have a full group. The one Devil can be tough. but he actually seems easier to me than other devils you see later.

Then there is the fight on the stairs.
But this one can be approached with smart play, simply by falling back around the corner by the steam tunnels, and taking on things as they come to you.

After that, if your group is small you could invis across the market instead of fighting everything.

The bank fight is tough.

The steam tunnels fight is easier IMO.

The last fight can get tough, but IMO, if people just bring their own healing and back off when they get too beat up, ... then heal up and go back in.

Some other tactics work well in the last fight too.
I find ranging the boss to be good.
Devils have to be delt with somehow. Can be kited. canbe run from while ranging boss. Can be ganged up on by others who are not tanking boss....etc.
(and there is a great semi-safe spot that I have never seen anyone else use... well... before they saw me in there anyway. ;) )


Anyway, I really enjoy the tougher quests at lvl. (or below! :cool: )
wish more people would run them more often.

[pHo3nix]

... that is, "if" those few people would start with me.
cause I've seen people absolutely refuse to do it without a Cleric (or three)....


Aye, but you usually don't want to play with that kind of people anyway :)

[Saravis]

3) Want to save it for epic levels anyway.

It really does come down to this, why would you want to run it at heroic level, when you're going to grind it at epic levels for the scrolls, shards, and seals.

The only people who would be more inclined to run it at level are the newbies who don't have the base gear. However, the newbies are afraid, Chronoscope is a lot to chew at that level, especially for someone that doesn't have any familiarity with DR, devils, raids, and such. So they want veterans to help them out, but the veterans are less inclined to run it at heroic levels. So to have an easier time getting a group, over level PUGs are posted for it.

Additionally there is the general mentality towards raids, which is raids are for loot and not xp, which is why most raids, not just chronoscope, are ran over level.

My 2 cents.

[unbongwah]

I seem to be in the minority - I like running Chrono, at least once in a while - but it doesn't surprise me that most people skip it at level. The power-levelers go run something with better XP/min, the F2Pers can't get into it without someone buying them a pass (and why bother when there's more than enough F2P content to level to 10+), there are plenty of other sources for Coin Lords Favor, and apart from the Might of the Abishai set the loot is kinda so-so. The Devil Assault pack needs to be either cheaper or add more content to entice the Premiums into buying it.

Run something just for fun and/or challenge? Are you sure we're even playing the same game? :rolleyes:

[Qhualor]

chrono has become a loot raid. why do the raid at level when theres plenty of quests at the same level range to get xp? ive joined a couple at level chronos, on elite of course for BB since thats what a lot of people want to do, and both times were quick wipes before even making our way to the bank. it just goes to show that leveling and xp takes precedence over fun and challenge for a lot of people, but at the same time its what gets complained about a lot. a mechanic that is borked.

people drop so easily because if people keep dying over and over again and cant make the run to the bank than whats that got to say about how the rest of the raid will go?

proof is in the poison is tough at level too. i always stay 2 levels above the quest, so i am 6 when i do the quest on elite. i grab a hire, max my xp and solo my way to the end. usually i can do it without a hire death, but doesnt mean everyone can. the xp is really good in there, but a quest that requires some tactics to make it a smoother run.

typically, experienced players would know to come prepared in any quest/raid. one would think anyways. trs/vets cant always carry newbs or noobs in everything. some things these players need to do on their own. learning curve is very important in low level quests that are rewarding when you can combine your knowledge for higher level and tougher quests/raids.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

[Cynical]

Elitists with high epeen don't like low-level Raids. It's an insult to their beliefs that Raids should EXCLUSIVELY and ONLY be for the highest character levels !

Insults like this need to be ignored and silenced to death ...

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

For me, I see a lot of monsters spawning in the first fight. Most are easy, but togather they could be tough if you do not have a full group. The one Devil can be tough. but he actually seems easier to me than other devils you see later.

Then there is the fight on the stairs.
But this one can be approached with smart play, simply by falling back around the corner by the steam tunnels, and taking on things as they come to you.

After that, if your group is small you could invis across the market instead of fighting everything.

The bank fight is tough.

The steam tunnels fight is easier IMO.

The last fight can get tough, but IMO, if people just bring their own healing and back off when they get too beat up, ... then heal up and go back in.

Some other tactics work well in the last fight too.
I find ranging the boss to be good.
Devils have to be delt with somehow. Can be kited. canbe run from while ranging boss. Can be ganged up on by others who are not tanking boss....etc.
(and there is a great semi-safe spot that I have never seen anyone else use... well... before they saw me in there anyway. ;) )


Anyway, I really enjoy the tougher quests at lvl. (or below! :cool: )
wish more people would run them more often.


Trying to be more serious and reasonable, I'd say that these points really break The Chronoscope for new players :

- Newbies don't know a thing about devils
- Newbies don't know a thing about how to beat devils
- Newbies don't kow how a Raid actually works
- No-one actually teaches Newbies these things, as high-level players in general and Eliticists in particular have far more important things to do ...

One point no-one has seemingly noticed before :

- The whole pack consists of merely TWO quests. Not enough for the TP, 3 quests is the absolute minimum (Shan-To-Kor), people might believe.


The only people who would be more inclined to run it at level are the newbies who don't have the base gear. However, the newbies are afraid, Chronoscope is a lot to chew at that level, especially for someone that doesn't have any familiarity with DR, devils, raids, and such. So they want veterans to help them out, but the veterans are less inclined to run it at heroic levels.

This : Think of The Chronoscope of suffering from a big hole :

Lower levels -> Newbies won't play it, because they're afraid
LEVEL HOLE
Higher levels -> Veterans sometimes run it, for loot only

And because merely Veterans run it, Newbies NEVER get XP from it -> degrades into a loot-fest/run.

I PUGged it several times (at least once for every toon), and i NEVER got ANY xp, because there were just too many 20 charactrrs in the group as well !


So, I currently it's these points "killing" The Chronoscope :

- Pack just doesn't give enough "bang for the buck" (imaginary comment : "Only 2 quests ? How lame !")
- No-one teaches Newbies what's needed to know to successfully run this quest
- NO XP because of too many Veterans loot-running it
- No mid-level characters running it at all.

[der_kluge]

I pulled a group together for this raid, at level with BB on Sunday night on Cannith.

The secret? Start with a full party. So, I put up an LFM for RedWillows Ruins, and ended up getting a great party. I started with just me (arty) and my friend (clr), and ended up adding a sorc, another cleric, and a fighter. The DPS was top-notch, and we finished RedWillow's easily.

Afterwards, I was like "Chronoscope elite"? And everyone said "Sure!"

So, I put up the LFM with 6 people already in the party.

I got a FvS right away, and then sent out a bunch of tells to random folks to fill in the last few slots. The sorc from the original party figured out he didn't own the pack, and dropped. But we managed to fill easily - even late on a Sunday night.

The raid ran pretty smoothly, and while there were deaths (and a bard who apparently forget he could play songs), we completed. I unloaded 5 fusillades on the boss, who has a ridiculous amount of hit points, btw.

In the end, I think I netted about 20k for it.

[Tirisha]

So.... what I got out of these responses was:

Chrono is boring.
running some high XP quest 50 times in a row is a lot more fun. :(



actually the most fun I have leveling is running every quest on elite skipping the rare complete waste of time quests like chrono or higher level raids even.

you should consider that a lot of experienced players have ran epic chrono so much that running elite chrono might not be fun

[Anthios888]

No fear. I've done it when there were more than 6 guildies in range and we wanted to party together. I should also add that If I was introducing a new player to DDO, I'd run Chronoscope elite as soon as we were in range to do it, to show them raid mechanics and help them acquire BTA items. It's a noob raid.

But I generally avoid it because it is:


Boring. Lots of these TR folks have farmed Chronoscope even more than they have farmed STK or Bloody Crypt. I try to pick new quests when I am mixing up my reincarnation questing.
Low XP. VoN and Reaver (and even Titan, if it were xp efficient to flag) is a better example of raids that attracts people looking for a change of pace when leveling without wasting their night.
Bad loot, as compared to many other quests where you can get multiple end rewards in that time. There are no sellable named items (many other at-level quests: The Big Top, Bloody Crypt, House Deneith, etc.), 20th lists, or things you can accumulate over time (ingredients/commendations).
Easy. Unlike certain quests that I might run to get a baseline for character performance (New Invasion, Chains of Flame, Bastion of Power, Gianthold Tor, Vault of Night, Hound of Xoriat, Vision of Destruction), I have never felt like Chronoscope at-level provided for character test or sense of accomplishment.

[sirgog]

Heroic Elite Chrono is too hard for newer players.

For people that can beat it, usually you are on a TR, and when I'm on a TR I want my character back as soon as possible. That means getting out of the low levels ASAP so that I can actually play my toon again rather than this pale low level immitation.

Without such a boring XP grind on TRs, Elite Chrono would be run a fair bit at level, I'd say. Levelling would be about having fun not a painful process required to 'un-delete' a TR'ed toon. But when the game requires you to get so much XP to start really playing again, why invest 30-60 minutes in a Chronoscope that has quite a high chance to end in failure?



There's another factor too (and you see this also for Tempest's Spine) - assembling 8-12 characters just takes a lot longer than assembling 3-6. Lots of downtime.


Edit: One more point. Barbazu crit too hard on heroic elite. This makes the CAD fight a wipefest.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I guess some people just play a whole different game than I do. :(





I can totally understand not wanting to wait to fill the group.
I can understand leveling up too fast, so that it gets missed along the way.

But I do not see it as boring or a waste of time...

I can understand new guys not having the pack,
and especially not being up to it.

While I somtimes pretend otherwise, it "is" a challenge to do at level.
But, it should not be much of a challenge for a bunch of TRs. (and don't you guys have to start at lvl 1 again? Do you really just shot past level 8 to fast? every time?)

I know I play the "alt" game not the TR game.
I "do" lvl up too quickly, quite often, just because I start my alts at lvl 7 now.

But, if I see an at lvl or near at lvl Chrono, I'm in there..
I like the challenging stuff. It's more of a challenge at low lvls than to do eChrono at lvl 20+ IMO


Anyway, I happen to think this is a fantastic raid to do at lvl 6-8.
I wish more new guys ran it. It can be a great learning tool IMO. Cause it really does take some cooperation for a bunch of noobs to get through it.

[fco-karatekid]

#3: stay together! and play smart.
One guy runing off agroing everything in the market is either gonna die, or get someone else killed.


The one time I've run this in a PUG and completed on Elite with NO deaths - THIS was the difference... probably the MOST important piece of that raid.

[redspecter23]

I'm not afraid of elite Chronoscope. I'm afraid that the other 11 people aren't prepared for it.

[Ivan_Milic]

I'm not afraid of elite Chronoscope. I'm afraid that the other 11 people aren't prepared for it.

This also,I had caster in elite at lvl chrono cast sleet storm.

[Qhualor]

vets/trs im sure could do fine with elite at level chrono. good luck trying to get them away from their xp/min questing to run a ~30 minute raid. chances are a lot of them want to save the quest for xp for epic levels, already have the base loot and dont want to waste ~30 minutes of their time for a chance at fail in a pug group (even full of vets/trs).

[CheeseMilk]

I always wished that Chronoscope would ramp up like Devil Assault does - 6 Norm, 12 Hard, 18 Elite.

[wax_on_wax_off]

We did this in guild a while ago, most of the party were off the boat VetII characters and we stomped it (tempest spine elite just previous to it - max level 7). Don't see much incentive to go back, maybe for solo glory but I'm not too caught up in such achievements and I'm not too interested in carrying others through the quest.

[Cardoor]

Too much efficiency gets boring for me. I like the unscripted chaos that erupts from PUGs and this raid takes the cake in that regard. If you PUG this with newbies, there will always be a guy that runs off and dies followed by the death of the new cleric that follows him. There will be three characters in three different parts of the quest asking where everyone is. Arise TR! Pull this quest from the depths of failure... ah nvm, kinda tired.

I agree with #3 "Stay together", it works.

[Tirisha]

Heroic Elite Chrono is too hard for newer players.

For people that can beat it, usually you are on a TR, and when I'm on a TR I want my character back as soon as possible. That means getting out of the low levels ASAP so that I can actually play my toon again rather than this pale low level immitation.

Without such a boring XP grind on TRs, Elite Chrono would be run a fair bit at level, I'd say. Levelling would be about having fun not a painful process required to 'un-delete' a TR'ed toon. But when the game requires you to get so much XP to start really playing again, why invest 30-60 minutes in a Chronoscope that has quite a high chance to end in failure?



There's another factor too (and you see this also for Tempest's Spine) - assembling 8-12 characters just takes a lot longer than assembling 3-6. Lots of downtime.

this sums it up nicely ^

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Too much efficiency gets boring for me. I like the unscripted chaos that erupts from PUGs and this raid takes the cake in that regard. If you PUG this with newbies, there will always be a guy that runs off and dies followed by the death of the new cleric that follows him. There will be three characters in three different parts of the quest asking where everyone is. Arise TR! Pull this quest from the depths of failure... ah nvm, kinda tired.

I agree with #3 "Stay together", it works.

lol, actually.... I kinda like this too. ;)

But unfortunately it is usually soon followed by people droppping group. :(

[Miow]

If they trippled the xp it might be done more, also i doubt i would try to pug it with random people.

[tralfaz81]

It's not fear, it's purpose.

elite chrono has no loot to be desired.



While I agree with you, seems a large percentage doesn't. I see loot runs all the time for levels 20 and below.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I'm not afraid of elite Chronoscope. I'm afraid that the other 11 people aren't prepared for it.

That's why I say : No-one teaches people about it, or how to beat those devils.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

If you PUG this with newbies, there will always be a guy that runs off and dies followed by the death of the new cleric that follows him.

How did you know that exactly this once happened to me there ? :D

- And I was in this "incodent" the Cleric, by the way. :D -

[TPICKRELL]

For me a much simpler answer, I don't need the XP at level 8, and I do need it when I'm trhying to get to 3 Million Epoic XP without repeating anything enough to give induce future repeat penalties.

Plus I hate waiting around for parties to fill or fill enough to get started on a somewhat difficult quest. End Game Raids are a necessary evil but not at level 8.

[redspecter23]

That's why I say : No-one teaches people about it, or how to beat those devils.

Call me jaded, but I've stopped trying to teach those that don't want to be taught. It tends to end with "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!" so I don't and as a result, tend to avoid anything that would be remotely difficult to a pug. It's not something that is a good thing, but it's a consideration when I'm looking for an LFM or posting my own. At that level I can run the amazingly easy Tangleroot chain on elite solo or do Chronoscope on elite in an unknown group which may take actual time to fill. For these reasons and others, it's just not worth my time. I know I don't speak for all TR players, but I'm sure many of them feel the same way, which only serves to dilute the number of capable players in an elite Chronoscope run.

[DarkForte]

"DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!"
Quoted for truth.