150k to reset Destiny AP?

[Munkenmo]

*edit* Turbine have attempted to remedy this by giving us free discount for 3 looms of destiny.
According to this post (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4728152&postcount=576) The looms are BTC, SO BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU BUY THEM

This is rediculous, given there are still bugs and non working abilities, you want us to pay this much to swap out of them?

I'd suggest making it a gold standard (ie reducing the price by a factor of 10) but alas, I'm sure it's so stupidly expensive to encourage loom sales.


http://i.imgur.com/vwlcf.jpg

[Kawai]

This is rediculous, given there are still bugs and non working abilities, you want us to pay this much to swap out of them?

I'd suggest making it a gold standard (ie reducing the price by a factor of 10) but alas, I'm sure it's so stupidly expensive to encourage loom sales.

*shrug
Can you blame them? i certainly do not.
try reading? and then planning? ---no zergy through it?

messy up? spend some platty ~or~ SUPPORT YOUR GAME. <---- not an accidental caps :cool:

[Munkenmo]

*shrug
Can you blame them? i certainly do not.
try reading? and then planning? ---no zergy through it?

messy up? spend some platty ~or~ SUPPORT YOUR GAME. <---- not an accidental caps :cool:




If everything worked within each destiny i'd have less issue with it. As it is, there are bugs, and we have to pay for this after we find out.

I read that improved power attack gives +.5[w], i found out after using it it doesn't
i read that tier 3 stay good provides good DR bypassing, after selecting it, i found out it doesn't

So yes i can blame them, this is a cash grabbing change, capitalizing on buggy product.

[luvirini]

Yes, it is just sheer stupidity to punish players like that for the bugs they make. But then that is normal behavior for Turbine..

[Thrudh]

150k plat?

That sounds like a bug.

[TPICKRELL]

150k plat?

That sounds like a bug.Nope, it was accidentally set to 180K copper before, and is now 180K plat. I agree the number is ridiculous given how many things are broken and you can't tell they are broken until you try them. But the pricing is consistant with the release notes saying it was corrected from being deducted in copper to being deducted in plat.

Also remember a dev saying during MOTU beta that it would cost a whole pile of plat to respec a destiny.

[zwiebelring]

Fixed the Known Issue where the cost of resetting Epic Destinies was being deducted in copper instead of platinum.
Nope, it is not a bug, it was a known issue to actually pay that low amount of money before patch...

-edit-
too slow

[Thrudh]

Well 150k or 180k plat is ******** expensive.

[Tolero]

Nope, it was accidentally set to 180K copper before, and is now 180K plat. I agree the number is ridiculous given how many things are broken and you can't tell they are broken until you try them. But the pricing is consistant with the release notes saying it was corrected from being deducted in copper to being deducted in plat.

Also remember a dev saying during MOTU beta that it would cost a whole pile of plat to respec a destiny.

Correct. It had also been listed in the known issues since MOTU that the price was wrong and would be changed so that there would be no surprises once the fix went in =/

[Munkenmo]

Correct. It had also been listed in the known issues since MOTU that the price was wrong and would be changed so that there would be no surprises once the fix went in =/

how about fixing the bugged product we're paying to respec out of first.

quality of life issues... what a joke.

[twigzz]

Can always count on Turbine to make this game better!.....

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yeah, I mean you can't have people having fun trying out new builds now can we? Nope we have to punish them for trying out stuff or not knowing what is working or what bug will be declared WAI after a text "fix"...

It should be pretty cheap to re-spec destinies, not an arm and a leg.

[Thrudh]

********. Expensive.

[arminius]

That price is insane. The most I would ever dream it would be would be less than a third of that. I guess they want you to buy the thing in the store.

And improved power attack doesn't work?? Arrrgh. Is it bugged?

[DeafeningWhisper]

Correct. It had also been listed in the known issues since MOTU that the price was wrong and would be changed so that there would be no surprises once the fix went in =/

I have a toon in Shadowdancer, almost nothing works there, should I really be paying hundred of thousands of plat to pick the few ones that work?

[SilkofDrasnia]

Correct. It had also been listed in the known issues since MOTU that the price was wrong and would be changed so that there would be no surprises once the fix went in =/

Just because it was put in the known issue list doesn't mean was a the smart way to go, the content is so buggy this is just wrong. Maybe try fixing content first then fix the cost.

[rimble]

I have a toon in Shadowdancer, almost nothing works there, should I really be paying hundred of thousands of plat to pick the few ones that work?

Same. This is messed up.

[Hendrik]

See, what the OP is failing to realize, investigate, or post valuable information is that the cost of a ED reset has more factors to it.

Now you can go with this badly informed rant and doom post or you can go look yourself at the cost of resetting YOUR Destiny.

It's not 150k.

Mine were 19-22k.

[rimble]

See, what the OP is failing to realize, investigate, or post valuable information is that the cost of a ED reset has more factors to it.

Now you can go with this badly informed rant and doom post or you can go look yourself at the cost of resetting YOUR Destiny.

It's not 150k.

Mine were 19-22k.

This will not end well...

[Hendrik]

This will not end well...

It's what happens when people jump on a bandwagon without more information then a poorly informed rant/doom post.

Go look at your reset cost yourself.

;)

[Munkenmo]

See, what the OP is failing to realize, investigate, or post valuable information is that the cost of a ED reset has more factors to it.

Now you can go with this badly informed rant and doom post or you can go look yourself at the cost of resetting YOUR Destiny.

It's not 150k.

Mine were 19-22k.

i realise the cost increases per level.

you fail to realise that my issue with this is primarily fixing a bug that helped players who were testing broken abilities, before they fixed the broken abilities.

go take your high horse elsewhere.

[Socio]

See, what the OP is failing to realize, investigate, or post valuable information is that the cost of a ED reset has more factors to it.

Now you can go with this badly informed rant and doom post or you can go look yourself at the cost of resetting YOUR Destiny.

It's not 150k.

Mine were 19-22k.

It's not expensive huh?

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm55/Baronvonsatan/Destinyreset.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm55/Baronvonsatan/Destiny2.jpg

[legendlore]

This and the cost of replacing feats makes the destiny system a lot less fun than it could be.

If I could play around with the new content without feeling it it's a huge decision every time I choose an ability I would enjoy leveling through different destinies a lot more (as it is I haven't spent any point at all in some of them since I don't know what I can use and what is bugged).

If I could swap my shield mastery feats for cleave and greater cleave (without feeling it's a big deal) while leveling legendary dreadnought I think I would enjoy a lot of its mechanics a lot more (just as an example destiny).

[TPICKRELL]

See, what the OP is failing to realize, investigate, or post valuable information is that the cost of a ED reset has more factors to it.

Now you can go with this badly informed rant and doom post or you can go look yourself at the cost of resetting YOUR Destiny.

It's not 150k.

Mine were 19-22k.At least one factor is how many action points (or maybe levels can't tell which) you are respeccing.

My 180K number was based on a capped destiny that I reset Monday since the release notes on lammania said this was coming.

[Cyr]

See, what the OP is failing to realize, investigate, or post valuable information is that the cost of a ED reset has more factors to it.

Now you can go with this badly informed rant and doom post or you can go look yourself at the cost of resetting YOUR Destiny.

It's not 150k.

Mine were 19-22k.

Why is there an extra charge for switching out bugged abilities?

[Hendrik]

i realise the cost inceases per day.

you fail to realise that my issue with this is primarily fixing a bug that helped players who were testing broken abilities, before they fixed the broken abilities.

go take your high horse elsewhere.


Wrong.

If that was anywhere near factual, your cost would not be so high.

[Hendrik]

It's not expensive huh?




Sure is for someone that respecs a lot.

;)

[Thrudh]

See, what the OP is failing to realize, investigate, or post valuable information is that the cost of a ED reset has more factors to it.

Now you can go with this badly informed rant and doom post or you can go look yourself at the cost of resetting YOUR Destiny.

It's not 150k.

Mine were 19-22k.

I will withhold judgement until I check it myself... 20k is reasonable.

[knockcocker]

Just because it was put in the known issue list doesn't mean was a the smart way to go, the content is so buggy this is just wrong. Maybe try fixing content first then fix the cost.

This. Turbine has the business ethics of a loan shark.

[Hendrik]

At least one factor is how many action points (or maybe levels can't tell which) you are respeccing.

My 180K number was based on a capped destiny that I reset Monday since the release notes on lammania said this was coming.


You may pay platinum to the Fatespinner to respec an Epic Destiny at any time, though subsequent respecs increase in cost (this cost increase resets after 3 days).

[Hendrik]

Heh, I should have known better than to believe anything I read on these boards...

I will withhold judgement until I check it myself... 20k is reasonable.


Do that.

More respecs done, higher the cost.

[rimble]

nm, you answered it already.

[luvirini]

It's what happens when people jump on a bandwagon without more information then a poorly informed rant/doom post.

Go look at your reset cost yourself.

;)

Character 1: about 250k total to reset all destinies.

Character 2: total of about 800k

Character 3: 180k total..

And yes, each of those has sofar reset each destiny atleast once due to bugs some more than once. Thus at current prices I would estimate total cost of 2-3 million plat to do the same number again.

DDO, the game where you need plat exploits just to pay to get rid of other bugs..

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Turbine stick in the eye....

Really hate feeling like the REAL challenge in this game is to deal with the Merry Elfing Stuffing we contantly get pelted with each and every update...

[Munkenmo]

Do that.

More respecs done, higher the cost.

so your answer is suck it wait the 3 days, because an ability isn't working...

great for people who get ap to increase caster level, to find spells are hard capped
shadow dancers who have barely anything working.

There's a ******** cost mechanism here now, and it's punishing those who find through no fault of their own, that an ability isn't working as shown.

I've no issue when the destinies are fixed, but you're glossing over that point for the sake of your troll.

[Socio]

Sure is for someone that respecs a lot.

;)

Then that is poor design. Everyone will not get things perfect the first try and not everyone has a loom lying around to fix it seeing most of the destinies are bugged, or changed every update so it's a gamble with the odd's favored to turbine. Frankly Ed's should have little to no cost to reset.

They are paid for content and should not require further investments be it virtual currency *Plat* or Loom's *Physical currency* to switch and choose what suits your play style.

Socio

[CaseStringer]

Just take the Psionicist ED first and max out the telepathy tree so you'll know what's working & what is not.

Knowing is half the battle... :rolleyes:

[DeafeningWhisper]

It's what happens when people jump on a bandwagon without more information then a poorly informed rant/doom post.

Go look at your reset cost yourself.

;)

I have, 198K.

[munificence]

This game has become a joke.

They can't fix the myriad of broken abilities (which cripple players), but they CAN fix the "bug" reducing the cost of respeccing out of those abilities (which helps players).

So, as usual, the priority is to shut down anything that might benefit players, while ignoring everything else that is festering like an infected wound.

[Munkenmo]

So, as usual, the priority is to shut down anything that might benefit players, while ignoring everything else that is festering like an infected wound.

During the period they're adressing "quality of life issues"

+1

[Tolero]

More respecs done, higher the cost.

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

[twigzz]

http://imageshack.us/a/img337/3111/jesuszj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/337/jesuszj.jpg/)



200k to reset GMoF? Just retarted period. Have fun Turbine!

[Nagantor]

At the very least respecs should start moderately expensive and then maybe go up in price quickly if you do it often in the 3 days time span. They may even keep a list of all changes and have each count for 3 days, not like ransack which goes away all at once. Any way, an occassional respec shouldn't cost a huge amount.

[Scraap]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

Might I suggest implementing that before rolling this change out?

[Moltier]

I wouldnt mind the cost, if the abilities would work.
Since it will take a year or two to fix them, there shouldnt be any cost.

[munificence]

I still can't believe this.

I can't get in game to check, but 24 points really costs 200,000 pp to respec?

Really?

This has to be the dumbest change I've ever heard of.

Grats Turbine.

[Munkenmo]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

is there an ETA?

[Hendrik]

so your answer is suck it wait the 3 days, because an ability isn't working...

great for people who get ap to increase caster level, to find spells are hard capped
shadow dancers who have barely anything working.

There's a ******** cost mechanism here now, and it's punishing those who find through no fault of their own, that an ability isn't working as shown.

I've no issue when the destinies are fixed, but you're glossing over that point for the sake of your troll.

Not MY answer, it is Update 14 answer. That cost mechanism has been in since then. There was no outrage over it then, only have it now because the cost was fixed from COPPER.

Hehe, IM the Troll for facts. Classic.

[DeafeningWhisper]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

Maybe "break now fix later" is not the right approach, just saying...

Keep the price low until you can implement the right method, it feels like we are getting punished for content that is broken right now.

[Munkenmo]

Might I suggest implementing that before rolling this change out?

bout 2h too late.

[twigzz]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

It costs more to reset GMoF than it does LD. Both are maxed out for me too. None of mine cost the same even if they have the same amount of points spent.

[knockcocker]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

Surely someone there must *already* have realized that it's a bit of a stretch to charge so much to re-spec
abilities which are still in a high state of flux.

I kind of wonder why you didn't utilize your current preferred method of fixing bugs and simply change the description
to match the effect.

[DarkForte]

This is absolutely the most ******** change to this game I've seen in some time. It's a downright cash-grabbing mechanic for players not swimming in rivers of platinum. You could at least throw us a bone and let us respec capped destinies every 3 days for free to maintain consistency, like you do with feats and enhancements.

The thing I liked most about destinies is pretty much gone. Using the diversity to prepare your destiny for each encounter? Gone. Want to respec your ice draconic to acid draconic for wiz-king? Hell no. Got +1 stat from gear and want to even your stat with a destiny ability? Pony up! Want to use that ability that was broken and the devs just fixed? Hah, no chance! I can't speak for the majority of players here, but none of my toons have over 700k on bank.

Want to experience the diversity of the destinies? Pay us more... we're yours!

[Cyndrome]

Wrong.

If that was anywhere near factual, your cost would not be so high.

Just checked on several toons. The cost to reset a capped and never before reset destiny was a bit over 170k if I did not play the destiny beyond getting all of the APs. On my main and a few other destinies on which I capped xp the cost was 195k even though I never reset them. This is excessive.

On a 1 AP destiny that I decided not to cap the cost was 1250 platinum.

[luvirini]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

So why was the cost fixed to super high first before doing that change? Is this one of those quality of life issues->hurt players first and then help a year later and claim that quality of life was increased?

[Scraap]

bout 2h too late.

Well ****. Thought this was a Lam thread. Silly me, expecting changes to be up for review.

[Munkenmo]

Not MY answer, it is Update 14 answer. That cost mechanism has been in since then. There was no outrage over it then, only have it now because the cost was fixed from COPPER.

Hehe, IM the Troll for facts. Classic.

for 3 months the status quo has been, the devs were aware there were broken abilities, and they were aware that the costs were broken.

up till now the two categories were well balanced out.

you're now in here spouting incorrect statements, being corrected by tolero, yet calling them facts.

[Tolero]

is there an ETA?

Currently targeting U16

[Thrudh]

Why isn't the cost comparable to reseting your enhancement Action Points?

[munificence]

Currently targeting U16

Enjoy the rage, I guess.

This is absolutely horrendous customer service, and shows a complete disregard for players, and I hope people cancel their subscriptions over this.

If the devs don't see this as something which merits a hot fix, then they deserve to watch this game die and their jobs vanish.

[Munkenmo]

Currently targeting U16

thanks i guess.

could you nominate this bug to be unfixed should the suggested cost change not proceed?

[Cyndrome]

Currently targeting U16

I realize it's a game and all, and I can do fine without resetting, but why not just reset it to coppers for now.

U16 is really unacceptable.

[DarkForte]

Thanks for hurting us first, then pretending to fix it an update later.

This merits a fix. Pretending everyone in this game is plat-capped is at best ridiculous. Make it like enhancements and prevent respecing every 3 days for each destiny (you can even leave the loom in for those who want to respec even more often), or just reduce this ludicrous cost.

[StrixAluco]

Currently targeting U16

I appreciate the speed of the replies we are given right now, just not the content. This problem is reason enough for a hotfix of its own in my opinion (and I'm not even affected as I'm leveling heroic toons atm).
You have shown us that you listen which is great, please consider also showing us that you care. Please!

[Fejj]

Enjoy the rage, I guess.

This is absolutely horrendous customer service, and shows a complete disregard for players, and I hope people cancel their subscriptions over this.

If the devs don't see this as something which merits a hot fix, then they deserve to watch this game die and their jobs vanish.

Couldn't have put it better.

They get what they deserve

[twigzz]

The way I see it is......$$$$ grab as usual. Trying to get people to buy **** from the store. Next it'll be 1mpp or buy a loom :p. Typical Turbine IMO. This game is really starting to become a joke. Almost time to bow out I think.

[BruceTheHoon]

It's what happens when people jump on a bandwagon without more information then a poorly informed rant/doom post.

Go look at your reset cost yourself.

;)

One has to ask himself, why do people reallocate destiny points. Until the percent of people reallocating them because of bugs is not negligible, kindly go away, Nelson (http://www.cartoonbrew.com/wp-content/uploads/nelson-muntz.jpg). No need to point and laugh here, for whatever strange satisfaction schadenfreude might bring you.

@Turbine
Fix the ED bugs. Until then, this is just a richard move. This one really left me bitter.

[Hendrik]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

By 'tree' you mean a Fate, then something is VERY messed up.

These are the notes;

You may pay platinum to the Fatespinner to respec an Epic Destiny at any time, though subsequent respecs increase in cost (this cost increase resets after 3 days).

There is more to it then just amount of points spent in a tree.

I am seeing more then 50k cost difference for the same amount of points in a tree, only difference would be amount of respecs done.

[DarkForte]

Basically, the formula on live is bugged AND there's no fix until U16 and EVEN THEN the fix is still geared towards making people buy more looms. Thanks, Turbine!

[Eladiun]

Typical

[Beethoven]

So yes i can blame them, this is a cash grabbing change, capitalizing on buggy product.

By making them spend plat? Sure it sucks for new and casual players who reset destinies a lot, but for most people who spend any considerable amount of time endgame plat hardly matters.

So, it's what? The principle? People (especially so-called vets) have been asking for plat sinks since years and kept stomping their feet how Turbine never listens. Now they listened and increased the amount of plat resetting stuff costs and we are stomping our feet how stuff now costs too much.

The only argument remaining is they should maybe have waited a couple bug fixes longer before fixing the cost, but resetting it at lower levels or resetting it /once/ because you found out something doesn't work properly (or doesn't work out in a specific toon) doesn't make it that expansive, neither does the occasional reset to try out a different combination . It is resetting it repeatedly within a short time which increases the cost - which is obviously a system designed to discourage people to reset their Destinies for each quest or raid, but make them choose a specialization and stick with it for a while.

It's not like that's a new principle; in the past they simply used timers completely preventing your from resetting class levels (LR) and Enhancements for a given time. With Destinies they used a slightly different approach and instead of a timer preventing people from respec, it increases the cost (in plat) for respec before the timer is expired. So, it actually gives us an option which we did not get in the past and addresses something some people kept asking for, an optional plat sink.

The point I do agree with is that implementing a system which targets a considerable amount of plat should not have a bug/flaw in the formular and if it does, the problem should be fixed rather sooner than later.

[Limey]

So do I risk a bucketload of plat to reset my Sharadi to get Stay Good 3/3 cos now its fixed?

Oh wait somebody just did that and it's still broken, well its half fixed, doh. So now what, reset again? Pay twice. Ah but then again a 3rd time IF it gets fixed in U16.

Poor show Turbine, really.

[Schmoe]

Just to play devil's advocate here... For years I've been hearing how platinum is worthless, plat exploits are meaningless because anything less than 10 million plat is irrelevant, etc. etc. And for years I've been hearing that the reason platinum is worthless is because there's nothing to spend it on. Now there actually is something to spend it on, so platinum is meaningful again. What's so wrong with that? Maybe 200k for a respec is a bit excessive, but maybe 60-100k wouldn't be completely out-of-line?

[Gkar]

nm

[Munkenmo]

By 'tree' you mean a Fate, then something is VERY messed up.

These are the notes;

You may pay platinum to the Fatespinner to respec an Epic Destiny at any time, though subsequent respecs increase in cost (this cost increase resets after 3 days).

There is more to it then just amount of points spent in a tree.

I am seeing more then 50k cost difference for the same amount of points in a tree, only difference would be amount of respecs done.

just for you, here is one my melee's who's not reset a tree in over a month.

i accept apologies and plat.

http://i.imgur.com/qToqy.jpg

[LOOON375]

All I can say is, that Im glad I got to figure out what works and what don't in the destinies that Im running. I will not reset regardless. The price is just too fricken high.

This issue alone has potential to throw the auction house into complete and utter HIGH PRICED chaos.....

[Ayseifn]

What sort of price and scaling will we see when this changes again in U16, can we get a break down?

[Drwaz99]

It seems fairly obvious to me:

Either pay a bunch of plat or give us your money (Loom of Destiny). This has become a fairly obvious tactic lately.

[Scraap]

So, it's what? The principle?

Actually, yes.

Call me overprotective, and I'll be the first to admit I've got a streak there a mile wide, but it gets my back up when fixing mistakes is downright punitive on a new player. They're the ones most likely to make them, after all.

[Coldin]

I'm sorry, but this cost is way too high. For perspective my characters tend to only have a few hundred thousand plat at any one time. With these prices, that means I will be broke after just a couple respects. That frankly is rediculous.

[Gawna]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

So, players are being punished because of bugs? Sure, you can just not pay anything at all and be stuck with a ton of abilities in your ED that do nothing! Perfect! Derp.

Oh man, I'm so sory that the Exit Survey was broken when I cancelled my sub. That bad boy would have been in all caps.

[DarkForte]

Why would you assume that? It's roughly comparable to 1 feat exchange at L20 (flawless shard + 80K plat)

Not saying it shouldn't be lower...but it isn't totally out of wack.

And it's infinity times the cost of a feat respec at 25 (can you guess? It's free!).

[Socio]

just for you, here is one my melee's who's not reset a tree in over a month.

i accept apologies and plat.

Same for my monk and its sitting at 200k to reset and I have not reset in over a month.

Socio

[Voldomar]

Just because it was put in the known issue list doesn't mean was a the smart way to go, the content is so buggy this is just wrong.

Indeed. Cut the cost in half


I have a toon in Shadowdancer, almost nothing works there, should I really be paying hundred of thousands of plat to pick the few ones that work?

I know:
Meld into darkness, sounds cool, let's try it -> bugged -> reset
Executioner's strike -> doesn't work -> reset
Oncoming darkness -> underpowered -> reset
Consume -> bugged -> reset

Also, I've mistakenly assumed that meld into darkness was fixed with 15.2; so guess what?
Reset -> oh *** it still doesn't work ( fix is going to be in u16 ) -> Reset again.
Joy

[DeafeningWhisper]

Currently targeting U16

For the love of Vecna! Stop with the break now fix later, it's just not a good way to do business or keep your players happy.

I know you personally are not at fault here, but stuff like this really makes me question my sanity for sticking to this game.

"Hum, destinies are buggy so people need to respec just to find out what actually works and the price is bugged as well so they can do so for a reasonable price. Rather then fix the bugged destines we'll spend time and money fixing the price part, I is a genius!"

It hard *not* to see this as "hurting the players first, fixing real bugs laters" in Turbines list of priorities.

[EvilI]

Unfortunately I already unsubscribed. Otherwise this would be a good reason.

Cut the cost for ED respec by 1/2, roll back the changes on poison/disease immunity and freedom of movement and I solemnly pledge to resubscribe AND buy 10.000TP the same day.

[Dwarfo]

Why isn't the cost comparable to reseting your enhancement Action Points?
Is there a way to reset enhancements instantly in the DDO store?

[Jsbeer]

Why isn't the cost comparable to reseting your enhancement Action Points?

I'm not sure this is a good thing to bring up, just in case the costs are "equalised" and NOT by deceasing Epic Destiny reset costs..........



Is there a way to reset enhancements instantly in the DDO store?


Um, would people please stop giving out ideas..........


:(

[MysticElaine]

I planned out all my destinies for one toon to see what I wanted.
I was in Leg Dread on my monk who was lvl 23.
I went to put in my last pts for the tree (this is my first one), and I noticed I miscalc the pts needed.
I went to reset the tree (again, my first tree ever I have lvled in, and tree not quite maxed out but rec'd all pts for it).
84k pp to reset...of course, I read it as 84pp not 84k cuz I was thinking the comma was a period :(
This is a bit extreme for a first time

[BurnerD]

Here's a thought...

Until you iron out the glitches in most of the ED's change the cost parameter to gold. 20K plat to reset is reasonable.

Once the ED's are fixed change it to plat again...

Seriously Turbine I support you guys on most things, but this was not well thought out...

Charge appropriately for the quality of the product......

[Sierim]

Is there a way to reset enhancements instantly in the DDO store?

Lesser heart of Wood ;)

[Beethoven]

Why isn't the cost comparable to reseting your enhancement Action Points?

The cost or resetting Action Points doesn't increase over time, it simply starts a timer and does not allow you to reset at all. Way I understand the Destiny system is that it is supposed to instead of not allowing you to reset them at all it increases the cost.

Personally, I don't think the principle is the problem. To me the issues are that some Destiny abilities are still bugged (thus making you reset with no fault of your own) and that the formular itself does not seem to work the way it is supposed to either (as resetting the Destinies for the first time is actually almost as expansive as resetting it twice or thrice). So, something does not add up.

[redspecter23]

The only reason it's so expensive is to encourage DDO store sales of Loom of Destiny. If the Loom didn't exist, there would be no reason for the plat price to be so prohibitive. Because of this, player perception is that it's nothing more than a cash grab opportunity. Get rid of the Looms which are only there as a plat/TP exchange and lower the plat cost. As it is currently, the best TP/plat exchange is simply buying bypasses and selling in the market for 400k or so.

150TP (bypass) = 300k - 400k pp

or

195TP (loom) = 200k pp max

The Loom is just a trap to get more cash out of players. Do away with it. Anyone that would by a Loom right now is better off buying a bypass and trading it for plat to spend on a respec while pocketing the extra plat.

[Singular]

Correct. It had also been listed in the known issues since MOTU that the price was wrong and would be changed so that there would be no surprises once the fix went in =/

It's seriously 150k plat to respec your epic destiny?!? That's insanely high and totally inconsistent with respeccing the enhancement tree.

No offense, but that reads like "if this is too high, you can spend tp (money) to buy a respec."

If it's going to remain that high, I'd like to see the enhancement reset also increase in price.

[Alaunra2010]

Oh my GOD that is expensive...

:-(

[Kalevor]

This.suxs.hard

[GrampaBill]

Hendrik, how about you put up a screen shot of your <20k cost so we can see how many points you're resetting in that destiny?

Tolero, unlike many others, I've come to realize that whenever you give us the "it will be fixed later" line, it isn't going to happen. The Challenge XP reset is a prime example of this player blow-off attitude. Since you all have already used the "we can't figure out a good formula for resetting the XP" I will expect a new excuse for this when it's NOT fixed in U16. [Edit: You can also refer to my signature of another thing that you all will fix soon]

Now, rather than do nothing but yap, I will help you out and make a suggestion: why not also give an option to pay for the reset with Khyber Dragonshards? You know, the dragonshard that is borderline useless for us? That way, it has use that is similar to the Siberys Dragonshard's use in Feat Respecs.

[Tid12]

Poor shadowdancers.

[Singular]

so your answer is suck it wait the 3 days, because an ability isn't working...

great for people who get ap to increase caster level, to find spells are hard capped
shadow dancers who have barely anything working.

There's a ******** cost mechanism here now, and it's punishing those who find through no fault of their own, that an ability isn't working as shown.

I've no issue when the destinies are fixed, but you're glossing over that point for the sake of your troll.

I'm sorry, did you say that spells are hardcapped? Does that mean that the spell level increases I'm told I'm getting through my Draconic Incarnation are not actually being applied?

[Cyr]

It seems fairly obvious to me:

Either pay a bunch of plat or give us your money (Loom of Destiny). This has become a fairly obvious tactic lately.

Yup, shameless cash grab is shameless cash grab.

[DeafeningWhisper]

I'm sorry, did you say that spells are hardcapped? Does that mean that the spell level increases I'm told I'm getting through my Draconic Incarnation are not actually being applied?

You get spell pen, that's about it...

Read here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=391991

[FrozenNova]

Every time I try to get back into the game, I run into something like this.

It's really rather abysmal.

[Eladiun]

I'm sorry, did you say that spells are hardcapped? Does that mean that the spell level increases I'm told I'm getting through my Draconic Incarnation are not actually being applied?


That's been the case since the introduced Savants and they have turned a blind eye to it.

[Nospheratus]

All my toons are plat capped and I can see myself avoiding an ED reset like the plague...

Seriously? 200k? Roughly 5% of the plat CAP for the reset of ONE tree?...


People reset EDs for many reasons. Make certain ability scores even due to new gear/tomes, changing abilities to try new ones in the same tree, changing abilities because the chosen ones are bugged, etc.

This price is too high IMO. Perhaps it can be considered a plat sink, but it's not exactly optional because everyone needs to do it at some point, and people with low amounts of plat will have to decide if going broke is worth the reset.


Why is this price wrong? Because of the flexible nature of destinies, just like enhancements. It's very common to want to reset the tree. 20k would be quite alright, and it's still a lot more expensive than enhancements reset, by comparison...

[AshtonVonGrace]

That's been the case since the introduced Savants and they have turned a blind eye to it.

Kind of off topic. But i cant even log in, Every time i bring up DDO it gets stuck on the Fine line of (Updating) it does every time when you start the turbine client

Any help?/ Suggestions

[MrWizard]

EDIT: Meant to be a bit of a jovial sarcastic post... It is obvious they want to discourage a lot of respeccing.

well, I am sure if you are respeccing the top tier of a destiny..and are probably level 25, I would assume you have too much cash anyway so it should not be a biggie...
Unless you do it frequently, then it would be an issue.

it could hurt newer players more though since it is a little tough to get things right the first time. And when an experienced player explains your mistakes you need to change things.. Newer players, even high level, have cash issues.

just don't respec.

in the old days you picked an enhancement and you were stuck with it, forever. Ditto with stats, feats, etc....

why, in my day, we had to have 4 squirrels in wheels just to run one monitor while gently tapping the computer to get the graphics card to advance framerates....IN THE SNOW!!!

[jejeba86]

Well, that's indeed too sad...

We were told about this change, but I really couldn't believe the ratio was right.

This is almost an insult guys...

You did say that players would get lots of freedom and options with the destinies, but this price denies it all.

Make like people are saying, like enhancements are currently.

Pay a small amount for the first time, which increases in a resonable amoount and decays each tick after 3 days.

E.g. first reset would cost 0.5kpp per spent point (that's about 4 epic hirelings for a full tree), than adjacents resets would cost +0.1kpp per spent point.

Below is a table of what I'm suggesting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6PfmGBAIG7w/UHWZl95y-HI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/nDLh6KN32OQ/s513/reset%2520ED.jpg

So, whenever you reset a tree, 72h later you get -0.1kpp cost for resetting again.

[Eladiun]

well, I am sure if you are respeccing the top tier of a destiny..and are probably level 25, I would assume you have too much cash anyway so it should not be a biggie...
Unless you do it frequently, then it would be an issue.

Like Nospheratus said, 5% of the plat cap is somewhat excessive.

[Gawna]

just don't respec.
Oh, that's a perfect solution! I'll just waste my ED points on stuff that's broken, but who cares? Just don't respec!

[knockcocker]

well, I am sure if you are respeccing the top tier of a destiny..and are probably level 25, I would assume you have too much cash anyway so it should not be a biggie...


Yeah, rich people should pay 95% tax as they can afford it. Not. Unfair is unfair, regardless.

[Cyndrome]

Tolero, unlike many others, I've come to realize that whenever you give us the "it will be fixed later" line, it isn't going to happen. The Challenge XP reset is a prime example of this player blow-off attitude. Since you all have already used the "we can't figure out a good formula for resetting the XP" I will expect a new excuse for this when it's NOT fixed in U16. [Edit: You can also refer to my signature of another thing that you all will fix soon]


Tolero,

I pretty much blow off a lot of the silly problems with the game, but I have to agree- some of these "quality of life" changes need to be handled more efficiently.

We were told that challenge xp was easy to manipulate- so do it. This is another of those problems that was just made (ermmm I mean fixed). I have yet to see any adverse effects on the game from having a small reset cost - and lets face it Turbine should know that noone is going to by a stupid loom thing even if it costs 1 million plat.

[Thrudh]

well, I am sure if you are respeccing the top tier of a destiny..and are probably level 25, I would assume you have too much cash anyway so it should not be a biggie...

I've been playing this game for 6 years, have 4 characters at level 25, and one character at level 23..

And NONE of them currently have more than 500k plat on them... 200k is a lot of plat.

[Chai]

Another issue the forumites have no one to blame but themselves for. For years people have been screaming about how this game needs more plat syncs to control an economy that generates limitless plat. Any warning to be careful what we wished for was simply not heeded.

For as much as Turbine changes their game, respecs should be cheaper. The limit should be in time, not in currency.

[MysticElaine]

well, I am sure if you are respeccing the top tier of a destiny..and are probably level 25, I would assume you have too much cash anyway so it should not be a biggie...

Umm, I am lvl 24 now, topped one tree and have less than half million pp...84k to redo my tree is a lot of pp for me.

[DarkForte]

Everyone is plat capped... That's asinine. I've been playing for a year, have 4 capped characters and 1 at 22. Guess what... They're all sitting around the 200k plat mark. One of my healers is closing in on 700k, but that's about it.

[Flatliner57]

You get spell pen, that's about it...

Read here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=391991

Thanks for that. I think I need to go reset my Draconic destiny now.

Oh wait...

In all seriousness, I don't really understand how people are okay with one of the devs saying that this is going to get adjusted in u16. There's such a long list of things that the devs are going to implement SOON(tm)! This just gets thrown on that pile.

Yet another update/patch passes where the game was better BEFORE the update/pass. I'm really getting to the point where I'm afraid to read release notes.

[Ivan_Milic]

Correct. It had also been listed in the known issues since MOTU that the price was wrong and would be changed so that there would be no surprises once the fix went in =/

AS always,fix the stuff that benefits players first,stuff that doesnt can wait months.

[Vint]

Another issue the forumites have no one to blame but themselves for. For years people have been screaming about how this game needs more plat syncs to control an economy that generates limitless plat. Any warning to be careful what we wished for was simply not heeded.

For as much as Turbine changes their game, respecs should be cheaper. The limit should be in time, not in currency.

Not all formites screamed this. Even so this is a slam at new/casual players that have not farmed quests a million times to get the fat loot.

Yes, I can afford this and will not make a stink, but I think it is a bit much for some others.

[mikarddo]

Clearly, you are way out of line with such a price. 20kpp would seem reasonable (no matter how many AP) - but 200kpp absolutely isnt reasonable. A good part of the fun with the expansion is trying out the various ED abilities rather than just reading about them - and such a price with prohibit that for most people (no, it wont make many buy the looms - some, sure, but it will alienate more people resulting in a net loss). Kindly reconsider - and fast - because this is a terribly bad decision.

[djl]

Turbine has no sense of balance, none.

This is one of the most asinine, ridiculous changes they've ever made.

[DarkForte]

Wanna guess? More people will stick with their gimped decisions created by undocumented bugs because they can't afford the plat cost and people will still not but looms. Raid timers are more liquid if you want to transform tp into plat anyway.

[MrWizard]

well, they could raise the plat cap

[djl]

Yup, the end-result here is that people will just walk around with gimped Destinies. So ****ing stupid. NOTHING about this makes sense-- as stated 20k would be okay but 200k is a HUGE amount of plat, especially given the DESIGN of the EDs that encourages experimentation.

WB has gotten exceptionally greedy. It's eventually going to bite them in the behind.

[Scraap]

Well, that's indeed too sad...

We were told about this change, but I really couldn't believe the ratio was right.

This is almost an insult guys...

You did say that players would get lots of freedom and options with the destinies, but this price denies it all.

Make like people are saying, like enhancements are currently.

Pay a small amount for the first time, which increases in a resonable amoount and decays each tick after 3 days.

E.g. first reset would cost 0.5kpp per spent point (that's about 4 epic hirelings for a full tree), than adjacents resets would cost +0.1kpp per spent point.

Below is a table of what I'm suggesting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6PfmGBAIG7w/UHWZl95y-HI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/nDLh6KN32OQ/s513/reset%2520ED.jpg

So, whenever you reset a tree, 72h later you get -0.1kpp cost for resetting again.

I'd generally agree with something along those lines. Frankly, I was under the impression that the display was bugged, but it didn't seem worth bringing up until that bug was in-scope for a patch.

[twigzz]

Ok so instead lets make guys like Chai, Wizard and the rest of these "forumites that want a plat sink" pay this huge pricetag. Make the reset cost a % of the plat you have on character...... :p

I've been playing this game since the start. Have 10+ capped toons and not one of them is plat capped. Closest to plat cap on any of them is 2mpp. One reset for each toon and I'm broke lol.

[Phemt81]

I'd suggest making it a gold standard (ie reducing the price by a factor of 10) but alas, I'm sure it's so stupidly expensive to encourage loom sales.

They are so smart, i ll surely buy a loom each time i need to reset my ED :D

[chrisdinus7]

AS always,fix the stuff that benefits players first,stuff that doesnt can wait months.

To be fair, this has been broken for months. As to the issue in general, this one just doesn't bug me. Plat was worthless before, and it still is. For example, last night I sold a pair of nec 4 shield fragments for about 200k each (and I still have way more of each fragment then I could ever use). Run a shroud. Large ings still go for an okay sum. The other factor is that I have never reset a tree, despite playing frequently.

[oweieie]

Wanna guess? More people will stick with their gimped decisions created by undocumented bugs because they can't afford the plat cost and people will still not but looms. Raid timers are more liquid if you want to transform tp into plat anyway.

Nope, more people will quit. The flexibility to change your destiny was the ONLY thing I liked out of the horrid pile of **** that was MotU, and now I see nothing about it that was good. Had several guildies quit over how bad, game changing and buggy MotU was. Now it just got worse.

[Singular]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

It would be lovely if you would explain how it works, and the justification for it. Decay over time sounds nice, too.

Personally, I believe you guys need more plat sinks - but this one feels much too high. I mean, it's really the only one that is this high. And it has bad presentation for this very reason. It's the highest cost I've ever seen in the game set by the game itself and, right beside it, there's a "you can buy your way out of this plat cost with TP." That just looks bad.

I apologize, but it's hard to not link the two together in a negative light. I'm all for supporting the game, btw, being VIP and feeling that it's totally worth it.

[djl]

Ok so instead lets make guys like Chai, Wizard and the rest of these "forumites that want a plat sink" pay this huge pricetag. Make the reset cost a % of the plat you have on character...... :p

I've been playing this game since the start. Have 10+ capped toons and not one of them is plat capped. Closest to plat cap on any of them is 2mpp. One reset for each toon and I'm broke lol.

Exactly-- the AH is already a big enough platsink with its exorbitant 30% fee. There are a select few who will argue in Turbine's defense no matter how loony the change was.

[Coyopa]

The best thing about the destinies was the flexibility. It's been great fun trying out different abilities, seeing what you like and don't, then resetting. It's also been nice to be able to reset destinies to tailor them to the quest you're about to undertake.

I have over 12,000,000 plat across my characters, 7 of 13 of them are level 20 or above and I won't be paying either the plat cost or the real money cost to reset destinies. 150k to 200k to reset a destiny is just ridiculous and removes the flexibility and fun from the destiny system.

I'm going to seriously consider whether I want to continue playing this game and, if I do, do I want to continue to be VIP or not.

[Tiamas]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

Sounds like a new formula. Oh wait, we're waiting for a new challenge XP formula for like 5 months too. Looks like easy maths when the destiny reset will be at a reasonable price again.

[teh_meh]

I like that there's consequence to changing destinies. It might be a bit severe at 200K. But the more I see people stomping their feet about it, the more accepting I am of it. I do like watching people's brains explode over little things.

[Arkat]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

Wonderful. Adding unneeded complexity. This will be yet another source of bugs that will infuriate the player base even more.

Just keep it simple and reduce the price from a PP-based cost to a GP-based cost.

[djl]

Sounds like a new formula. Oh wait, we're waiting for a new challenge XP formula for like 5 months too. Looks like easy maths when the destiny reset will be at a reasonable price again.

Just shows, once again, where their priorities lie. Anything beneficial to the players takes a backseat to anything that increases the grind for the players because more grind = more money for Turbine, especially when they provide options you can pay real money for to lessen the grind.

[locus]

This issue alone has potential to throw the auction house into complete and utter HIGH PRICED chaos.....
That's.... not how.... money sinks work....

Oh, so I guess I'm stuck with the working skills in shadowdancer huh? Like.... +skills and int for now. Wonderful -.-

[nibel]

To contribute with the proof issue, those are the screenshots of my bardcher that I am curretly leveling. She never respecced any of the destinies, except shiradi once to switch from Stay Frost to Stay Good (and it was weeks ago).

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/oots/2012-10-10_00007.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/oots/2012-10-10_00006.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/oots/2012-10-10_00005.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff133/oots/2012-10-10_00004.jpg

So, yeah. 140k to respec from a level 5 Destiny. Can see it being 180k to respec from a 24 points destiny.

I remember the pre-fix cost being somewhat around 10 plat or so. It was raised by a x10.000 multiplier instead of x1.000 (copper to plat).

[djl]

I like that there's consequence to changing destinies. It might be a bit severe at 200K. But the more I see people stomping their feet about it, the more accepting I am of it. I do like watching people's brains explode over little things.

Little? 200k is NOT little. The more important consequence of this is that it goes directly against what Turbine envisioned with the Destinies: promoting experimentation and freedom to build how you want. Now, people will do research before spending any points and everyone will use the same cookie-cutter builds instead of trying to figure out what suits them best and finding what they like to use.

[bbqzor]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

This does not address the issue. The issue is, many of the abilities are broken, poorly described, or have incorrect tool tips. As a result, when using destinies it is frequent to encounter an ability which either does not work, or does not work as described (and commonly, ones which work differently than expected, because more than one behavior makes sense from the very generalized description).

As a result, it is incredibly common to spend some points, find out you want a change either because your stats didn't increase or because after one quest you find the ability not to taste, and immediately respend the points. Forcing people to either pay large sums of plat, or wait for days, does not address this underlying issue.

I am not surprised by the price hike, you indeed advertised it enough in advance to avoid that. But I will say, your offered solution, while perhaps better than the current idiotic pricing, is far from ideal.

Frankly, it should not cost anywhere near 100k no matter what the situation. U14 made it much harder to earn plat (through changes to item base costs), and also devalued much of what was considered good item currency. I have no idea what the intent was with a price this high... its essentially like not having the ability. Its about what a feat change costs, only people don't find out every third feat they want is bugged or poorly described.

Consider making it 1kpp per destiny point, so 1k to 20k. Obviously, having the price in copper was too low, but the current ~10k per destiny point is ludicrous. There is literally no incentive to actually make use of the destiny system by customizing abilities at that price; its simply too prohibitive and pushes the feature out of use. The fact that destinies are somewhat "wizard like" in that you have the option to customize to different situations is one of their very strongest points, why marginalize one of their biggest draws? And on top of that, it is extremely punitive at handling corrections as a result poor in-game notes as well... no one feels good after first taking a bugged ability, and then getting ripped for 100k to fix it. Talk about feeling like an unsatisfied customer/gamer... that'll do it every time.

For ~10k per reset, its enough people won't do so between every quest, but no ones going to flip out when they have to fix an error either. So please, 1kpp/point, reasonable and easy for people to understand (no crazy arcane formula behind the scenes, just 1k/point). Thank you.

[Voldomar]

Another issue the forumites have no one to blame but themselves for. For years people have been screaming about how this game needs more plat syncs to control an economy that generates limitless plat.

This has nothing to do with plat sink or economy balance. It's only DDOstore >>>> common sense

Right now spending ap into epic destinies is all about trial and error. And even if you know what's bugged/useless you can't avoid new "fix" like this one:


Shiradi Champion's Stay Good now properly adds 7% extra light damage at rank three. Only thing they forgot to add is that they broke it, so now it doesnt give you good DR bypass at tier 3. -.-
I can even accept small bits of p2win here and there, but pay-to-playtest it's way out of line

[Justicesar]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

......that is all.

[mrphlegm]

Turbine has completly lost touch with reality

[alemulet]

this discussion is meaningless .. no matter if it will cost 1pp, 10pp, 100,000 pp, this is irrelevant .. what really matters is that the players, those who bought, repeating BOUGHT a content full of bugs, which in itself would be enough to stop any serious company think of a form of compensation, which has now, INGAME, pay for mistakes of that "professional" company, who loves buggy sell content ... very good this ....

Another important point ... fix what is wrong? no, never ... remove bugs that are known for years? of course not ... now deploy things without any sense, that do not improve anything ingame .. yes!! this is turbine!!
getting a little worse ... yes, we do ****, but we do not give a **** who pays our salary, and you know what? only when we want we will fix that ... "YES THIS THE WAY OF TURBINE BUSINESS"

[Gawna]

Remember that time that we were all, "Things can not possibly get worse than this mess of a raid and Feather of Sun's awful loot,"? I love that time.

[DevHead]

My GMoF maxed destiny is listed as costing 191k plat.

[eaten by cube]

[Thrudh]

For ~10k per reset, its enough people won't do so between every quest, but no ones going to flip out when they have to fix an error either. So please, 1kpp/point, reasonable and easy for people to understand (no crazy arcane formula behind the scenes, just 1k/point). Thank you.

This.

[psteen1]

Tolero, how rich do you think we are? As a semi-casual player, the most I've ever had is 300k at one time, and that took a month to accumulate. This means no respeccing, ever, really. Which means the end game is effectively broken for me.

[Chai]

Not all formites screamed this. Even so this is a slam at new/casual players that have not farmed quests a million times to get the fat loot.

Yes, I can afford this and will not make a stink, but I think it is a bit much for some others.

The other issue is those who supported every single new pay_to_win addition to the DDO store, then blew off those of us who opposed it due to the fact that it gives Turbine license to design the game with barriers and then take your RL money to allow you to circumvent those barriers. We were called conspiracy theorists and told to calm down. Now here we are in just that scenario. Turbine changes their game alot. People want to respec their toons due to those changes. The majority of the players dont have capped plat burning holes in their pockets. Gee, how are they going to pay for their respec? Looms perhpas? Their other choice is an arbitrarily huge amount of plat. Theres no guarantee the game wont change next week, or issues with the destiny system wont be fixed next week, that will make the same person want to respec again.

[Missing_Minds]

I look at it this way. The sign such was coming came back long ago when the AH was shifted from the gold standard to the plat standard, but as yet money is still completely stored in copper.

Don't you love DDO inflation?

[FZTopaz]

I usually defend Turbine when it comes to things. Bugs I'm ok with, it happens, I am a programmer, I understand. This, however, this is completely stupid. Is it bad enough for me to quit? No, not quite, but it's a hell of a blow.

I only have two characters that can use destinies...one level 24 wizard, and one level 20 barbarian. I respec my wizard a lot, for various reasons. The biggest one is just my style of play. We like to take our time to learn the game and have fun and enjoy the story, and being a role playing game, we like to have back stories and such. Mine was that my necromancer was killing the dragons and absorbing their souls to gain their powers. So each time he landed the killing blow on a dragon (had to be the killing blow) he would respec his Draconic ED and take one more attack in that dragons element. Stupid? May be, but it was fun. I enjoyed playing that game. I still had two dragons to land the killing blow on, and I don't think I care anymore. At level 24, i've only been above 200kpp twice, and both times i ended up having to redo ship buffs, buy potions, or try desperately to find something cheap enough on AH to replace an old item when I couldn't find one the old way.

This picture should not have happened. I bought Tera a couple days ago for both my wife and myself, a day after rewedding VIP here. I'll keep playing both, but I may end up spending a bit more time in Tera. Please don't take away anything else I find fun.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/bloodraven951/really_zps87924cf7.jpg

[djl]

I can honestly say I can't remember a time when I was more disgusted after a change. The proposed Madstone Boots nerf was close, but thankfully they suggested that in Lama and it never made it live.

[Singular]

You get spell pen, that's about it...

Read here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=391991


Thanks! Checking it out now.

[BigButter]

It seems like there is room for a reasonable discussion on the cost to reset an ED but that discussion should be shelved until more bugs are worked out of the ED system.

The thrust behind the OP's decision to respec was due to the scattershot functionality within certain EDs.

As it stands now, it is very difficult to wade through the forums, the wiki, or (shudder) in-game Advice to find out with certainty what functions are broken or what is WAI---sometimes even after official word that something has been 'fixed.'

The current respec formula seems high to me but I'll allow that a conversation could be had about it. I just don't see how it makes any sense at all to charge it at these levels while players maneuver the functionality minefield that is the current ED system.

[Eladiun]

The other issue is those who supported every single new pay_to_win addition to the DDO store, then blew off those of us who opposed it due to the fact that it gives Turbine license to design the game with barriers and then take your RL money to allow you to circumvent those barriers. We were called conspiracy theorists and told to calm down. Now here we are in just that scenario. Turbine changes their game alot. People want to respec their toons due to those changes. The majority of the players dont have capped plat burning holes in their pockets. Gee, how are they going to pay for their respec? Looms perhpas? Their other choice is an arbitrarily huge amount of plat. Theres no guarantee the game wont change next week, or issues with the destiny system wont be fixed next week, that will make the same person want to respec again.


Amen

[Fomori]

This thread is so full of loss. There is much whining, hyperbole, and conspiracy. I guess people need to get their drama somehow.

I'm pretty sure the high cost is NOT a conspiracy to get people to buy looms, it's to deter people from metagaming their top ED's.

I do agree that it probably should be less until they get the bugs worked out though.

The hyperbole is those that claim this is the 'breaking point' of them quitting or DDO DooOOOoOOmm! Really? I mean, really? I call BS on you.

While this is an annoyance, its not going to break the game. People that feel the NEED to respec their ED will spend the plat, or get a loom. That is your choice for wanting to be as optimal as possible. Those that are good enough to succeed with sub-optimal toons, or dont care, can decide to go or wait.

Yes, its probably too much, but its not the end of the world.

[Fejj]

This thread is so full of loss. There is much whining, hyperbole, and conspiracy. I guess people need to get their drama somehow.

I'm pretty sure the high cost is NOT a conspiracy to get people to buy looms, it's to deter people from metagaming their top ED's.

I do agree that it probably should be less until they get the bugs worked out though.

The hyperbole is those that claim this is the 'breaking point' of them quitting or DDO DooOOOoOOmm! Really? I mean, really? I call BS on you.

While this is an annoyance, its not going to break the game. People that feel the NEED to respec their ED will spend the plat, or get a loom. That is your choice for wanting to be as optimal as possible. Those that are good enough to succeed with sub-optimal toons, or dont care, can decide to go or wait.

Yes, its probably too much, but its not the end of the world.


It is my opinion you are wrong here. People will leave over this.

Don't get me wrong, this issue will not be the only reason, just the last one.

[Simplesimon1979]

This game has become a joke.

They can't fix the myriad of broken abilities (which cripple players), but they CAN fix the "bug" reducing the cost of respeccing out of those abilities (which helps players).

So, as usual, the priority is to shut down anything that might benefit players, while ignoring everything else that is festering like an infected wound.

And they go overboard when they fix it. Just like they Sid with the challenge XP.

Maybe the Devs have a problem with decimal places. :)

[countfitz]

The other issue is those who supported every single new pay_to_win addition to the DDO store, then blew off those of us who opposed it due to the fact that it gives Turbine license to design the game with barriers and then take your RL money to allow you to circumvent those barriers. We were called conspiracy theorists and told to calm down. Now here we are in just that scenario. Turbine changes their game alot. People want to respec their toons due to those changes. The majority of the players dont have capped plat burning holes in their pockets. Gee, how are they going to pay for their respec? Looms perhpas? Their other choice is an arbitrarily huge amount of plat. Theres no guarantee the game wont change next week, or issues with the destiny system wont be fixed next week, that will make the same person want to respec again.

I hate when Chai is right Turbine, but you do **** like this and even Chai ends up being right.

/signed.

[Thrudh]

I usually defend Turbine when it comes to things. Bugs I'm ok with, it happens, I am a programmer, I understand. This, however, this is completely stupid.

Agreed... I'm the same way...

This isn't a bug... This is just stupid... And the devs need to stop hard-coding everything into their compiled code. These kind of formulas should be in their database, easy to change without pushing out a hotfix...

We shouldn't have to wait until Update 16 to get this fixed.

[Eladiun]

Agreed... I'm the same way...

This isn't a bug... This is just stupid... And the devs need to stop hard-coding everything into their compiled code. These kind of formulas should be in their database, easy to change without pushing out a hotfix...

Same with quest experience... It should be a database lookup, easy to change.


Patching this game also shouldn't be like executing a moon landing other games can execute weekly bug fix patches. DDO can barely execute a patch after a month of testing without crashing all the servers.

[mrtweakin]

Wow. How on earth did anyone at Turbine think this was reasonable?

Moving it from CP to GP, sure. A few thousand plat to reset is fine. Even put a couple day limit on it if you must (like enhancements).
Up to 200k pp to reset a capped destiny? lol.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Its only plat. Turbine can charge whatever it wants, AFTER all the bugs in the destinies are fixed.

Frankly, its a little amazing that they "fix" the respec costs before fixing all the destinies. Really, do you guys put any effort into prioritizing which bugs you fix first?

During Beta (with this many broken features over 3 months after release, we might as well still call this Beta), the respec costs should be set to 1 copper. Turbine's inability to manage PR is astounding.

[djl]

200k plat says this thread reaches 20 pages by the end of the day ;)

Judging by the overwhelmingly negative response, Turbine, I'd say you dun goof'd. Please take it into mind and revert this change in a hotfix. Delaying a subsequent adjustment until U16 is released in several weeks is completely unacceptable.

[The_Mighty_Cube]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

[countfitz]

We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often... Currently targeting U16

So, you (I use "you" as a general "Turbine" not specifically Tolero) KNOW it's broken. It was broken before but benefitted players. So instead you broke it to HURT players. Knowingly did this. On purpose. Instead of leaving it as it was, and fix it at U16.

Either way you plan on fixing it for U16. Admittedly. So it is going to be fixed in one month. So you have two decisions as of what to do.

Plan A: Wait until U16 when you have a fix. Nobody cares until U16 happens, and when the price to fix a broken ED is reasonable, nobody cares then either (except the few who care simply on principle that you should not have to pay to fix a broken mechanic at all, but nobody really cares now, and technically this is still true.) This has the side benefit of you NOT HAVING TO DO ANYTHING.

Then plan B: Anger your most devoted player base for the next month for MAYBE a couple hundred dollars. How many players will this cost you? Do you really think, in a cost/benefit analysis, this was the right decision. Financially? So few people are going to buy looms, that the benefit, almost nothing, will not outweigh the cost in players who will continue to play, cost you money in maintaining servers, bandwidth, etc., but will never again put a dime into your wallets.

Even if you fix this in a month, it's still costing you for the rest of this game's life. This will be mentioned for as long as we've mentioned a dozen other things that have been fixed for years but still ruined the game for a short time.

Interesting side note to this fact. People don't care if you fix things later, they only remember you breaking them in the first place. More than enough statistical evidence to prove this, but I don't want to get too sidetracked. Will provide evidence if any fanboi wants to argue this isn't true. Both in this game and in real life.

[stainer]

@Turbine

I think micro transactions are great. You guys stumbled onto a great thing when you implemented it. I believe there can be to much of a good thing though, and you might be approaching it. Some of the marketing decisions recently could be seen as "greedy". Certainly not by me, I love everything, but to some cynical outsiders it might appear that way.

It might be time to reevaluate the goals.

[Chai]

This has nothing to do with plat sink or economy balance. It's only DDOstore >>>> common sense

Right now spending ap into epic destinies is all about trial and error. And even if you know what's bugged/useless you can't avoid new "fix" like this one:

I can even accept small bits of p2win here and there, but pay-to-playtest it's way out of line

It has to do with both actually. Your choice is one of three.

1. Dont respec
2. Pay a Loom
3. Pay a ******** amount of plat.

People were harping that plat syncs were needed for years. If you dont want to deal with that plat sync, you can pay real money into the system. It was hilarious in every_SINGLE_OTHER PAY-TO-WIN-THREAD when people supported it telling those of us who didnt to calm down. I frequently posted in those threads that continual support of pay to win mechanics will give Turbine carte blanche to design the game with arbitrary barriers and allow us to pay real money to circumvent those barriers. Of course those of us who posted such were called conspiracy theorists and told to put our tinfoil hats away. :p Now here we are in that EXACT SITUATION. Charge us an arbitrarily high amount of plat for a respec or the pther convenient option is to pay real money. DO they have a guarantee they wont change the game again next week making people desire another respec? No, they dont.

[psteen1]

This thread is so full of loss. There is much whining, hyperbole, and conspiracy. I guess people need to get their drama somehow.

I'm pretty sure the high cost is NOT a conspiracy to get people to buy looms, it's to deter people from metagaming their top ED's.

I do agree that it probably should be less until they get the bugs worked out though.

The hyperbole is those that claim this is the 'breaking point' of them quitting or DDO DooOOOoOOmm! Really? I mean, really? I call BS on you.

While this is an annoyance, its not going to break the game. People that feel the NEED to respec their ED will spend the plat, or get a loom. That is your choice for wanting to be as optimal as possible. Those that are good enough to succeed with sub-optimal toons, or dont care, can decide to go or wait.

Yes, its probably too much, but its not the end of the world.

I think you are wrong. It does break the game; at least, it breaks epics. DDO is all about character customization and the freedom to try a variety of builds. If I can never reset these points, that freedom is gone. I can't afford these prices more than one time for one toon.

Of course, the option is always there for the loom..... blah. Of course this is a money grab to make us buy looms. I don't know how much the loom costs off hand, but basically it is paying a few bucks to reset these enhancements, or spending all the plat I earned the last month accumulating. It's a terrible choice. It is not a fun choice. It is stupid, and it stops me from playing some of my favorite toons.

If I wasn't leveling lowbies at the moment, I believe that it would in fact cause me to quit.

[Argila]

150k or similar amount is ridiculous.

One of the fun part of the ED was to be able to respect them at will for a low price so you could test and have fun with the various options that the ED give.
Now, that option is dead.

One more for the fun killer bag Turbine, one more.

[countfitz]

It has to do with both actually. Your choice is one of three.

1. Dont respec
2. Pay a Loom
3. Pay a ******** amount of plat.

People were harping that plat syncs were needed for years. If you dont want to deal with that plat sync, you can pay real money into the system. It was hilarious in every_SINGLE_OTHER PAY-TO-WIN-THREAD when people supported it telling those of us who didnt to calm down. I frequently posted in those threads that continual support of pay to win mechanics will give Turbine carte blanche to design the game with arbitrary barriers and allow us to pay real money to circumvent those barriers. Of course those of us who posted such were called conspiracy theorists and told to put our tinfoil hats away. :p Now here we are in that EXACT SITUATION. Charge us an arbitrarily high amount of plat for a respec or the pther convenient option is to pay real money. DO they have a guarantee they wont change the game again next week making people desire another respec? No, they dont.

Chai's right. We've finally (I hope) gotten to the bottom of the slippery slope he's been warning us about for years. We're now, I hope, in a canyon's abyss that cannot get any lower.

Until they sell Seals and Shards in the store. Or +5 tomes. Or XP stones.

Well, we've still got a bit further to sink.

[Missing_Minds]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

In order to keep up with the inflation in game, we'll have to start charging for feedback.

100k plat is the starting price per a 10 question multiple choice form.

50k plat per 500 word (maximum) essay style question.

But we know Turbine can not deliver on this as the mail system has a limit of near 10k plat, so "please be happy with what you receive."*

*: lesson learned from how Turbine treats its players with player visible bug fixing.

[DevHead]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

Screwing over players isn't appropriate, either. How about you go eat the words and decisions of whoever did this?

[Gawna]

LOL quality of life

[DDORylak]

And my costs were 66k to reset my Exalted Angel 5.

I realize they want to make money off of Looms, but given the current and ongoing issues with the game, this is a less than ideal time to implement this change.

[countfitz]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

I've never seen a direct Cube post in so short a time so far down a thread. I don't know if it's happend before that a thread grows to page 10 in three hours and is so filled with hate for a change Turbine implemented that the Cube has to intervene.

While the doom threads have been growing lately, this, which isn't even a doom thread, simply a change it now back to how it was right away before something disasterous happens thread, is a pretty big sign.

To Turbine.

That this needs to be fixed faster than anything you've broken before.

Hell, the time you guys forgot to pay your website's fees wasn't this much doom so quickly. And the game was shut down because of that mistake.

Granted.. the forums were down...

[Gawna]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

I'm sorry, but being inappropriate is a known issue that I cannot fix. Please feel free to enter a bug report. Is there anything else I can help you with?

[Thrudh]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

I'm pretty sure this is one of very few threads where there are no personal attacks towards each other...

We're pretty united in our distaste towards Turbine's decision on this one.

[countfitz]

Screwing over players isn't appropriate, either. How about you go eat the words and decisions of whoever did this?

/signed.

[DarkForte]

It was hilarious in every_SINGLE_OTHER PAY-TO-WIN-THREAD when people supported it telling those of us who didnt to calm down. I frequently posted in those threads that continual support of pay to win mechanics will give Turbine carte blanche to design the game with arbitrary barriers and allow us to pay real money to circumvent those barriers. Of course those of us who posted such were called conspiracy theorists and told to put our tinfoil hats away. :p Now here we are in that EXACT SITUATION. Charge us an arbitrarily high amount of plat for a respec or the pther convenient option is to pay real money. DO they have a guarantee they wont change the game again next week making people desire another respec? No, they dont.

Welcome to the future. The slippery slope has come to its masterful conclusion of act 1. Next on the store: level up tokens for leveling up, else you'll have to pay 10k x level plat to level up.

[countfitz]

I'm pretty sure this is one of very few threads where there are no personal attacks towards each other...

We're pretty united in our distaste towards Turbine's decision on this one.

/signed.

When I agree with Thrud, Chai, Teh_, Stainer, and Mr. Wizard, you know something is broken. I can't wait till Ranncore and the other ragequitters ALSO respond to this thread, also agreeing with the fanbois. I'm also curious what Shade's going to say.

Seriously, never has a decision so unified the forums.

[countfitz]

Welcome to the future. The slippery slope has come to its masterful conclusion of act 1. Next on the store: level up tokens for leveling up, else you'll have to pay 10k x level plat to level up.

Shh! (That used to exist, minus the Store tokens part, so DON'T SUGGEST THESE THINGS, they could happen!)

[Dawnsfire]

I am soooo glad I escaped Shadowdancer before this change was implemented. That would have wiped my cash reserve out for sure. I hope LD is less buggy.

I understand the need for plat sinks. This game has needed a few for a long time. I just wish they would choose a few that target the folks with extra cash (since they actually have the extra cash you want to get out of the game) as opposed to all of us equally.

[djl]

I've never seen a direct Cube post in so short a time so far down a thread. I don't know if it's happend before that a thread grows to page 10 in three hours and is so filled with hate for a change Turbine implemented that the Cube has to intervene.

While the doom threads have been growing lately, this, which isn't even a doom thread, simply a change it now back to how it was right away before something disasterous happens thread, is a pretty big sign.

To Turbine.

That this needs to be fixed faster than anything you've broken before.

Hell, the time you guys forgot to pay your website's fees wasn't this much doom so quickly. And the game was shut down because of that mistake.

Granted.. the forums were down...

We're rapidly approaching a "critical mass" moment, here. With all the current and proposed changes, and the bugs, Turbine is driving away players much faster than they're gaining them. They had a huge facepalm moment recently with the "heroic com" changes, and the U16 loot leaves much to be desired as well. No one can tell how much their "increased drop rates" on coms will actually be and based on track records, I don't expect to be pleased.

More and more people are becoming discontented with the inactivity in this game (even though you say people moved to private channels/guild groups, a quick look at Marketplace/Trade tells you that there has indeed been a significant drop in player activity), and stupid changes like this only contribute to it.

The same people have been claiming they will quit the game for a while, but everyone has a breaking point. Decisions like this drive those people ever closer to the edge. Eventually, you're going to do too much and the doomsayers will finally be validated.

[Gawna]

I love you guys! /grouphug

[DevHead]

I love you guys! /grouphug

D'awwww.. *huggles*

[Gawna]

D'awwww.. *huggles*

The first hug is free, but all additional hugs cost 150k plat.

[Arkat]

... but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate.

Why not? This change feels like a personal attack carried out by Turbine against us, the playerbase.

[Kaytis]

I leveled every destiny quickly via the usual means. I have had the opportunity to play with destiny effects in every tree. I thoroughly enjoyed switching them around and playing with them -to see what worked and what didn't. It made the game fun -even when I was in a horrible destiny like Shadow Dancer or in a destiny that was completely inappropriate for my class.

This change sucks the fun out of Destinies. It is a bone-headed, arrogant, cash-grab and it will end badly.

You say you will fix it in Update 16? I say fix it in a hot fix or go home.

I counted the number of players on Orien yesterday. Less than 500. It is getting easier and easier to page through and see exactly how many people are on -because there are fewer and fewer people on.

I suggest you stop poking us in the eye with sharp sticks and start thinking about your player base.

There are so many bad words I want to use right now, but I won't give the cube the satisfaction.

[Scraap]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

I wasn't aware design choices were on the payroll. Maybe you should up their hourly so they aren't poor so often.

[Zenako]

Did the cost scale up too high? Sure looks like it, you betcha by about an extra order of magnitude I would state. (The 1K per point cost would be a simple measure to understand and makes more sense than overly complicated time based schemes.)

The core issue many have is that too many of the ED are NOT WAI!!. Paying a LOT to fix things that are busted does not make for happy campers.

You could put a timer in place, like raids or ransack. 3 days for example. Any changes made before the timer expires, needs a loom (with no limit). If the 195 TP cost I saw earlier in the thread is accurate, that amounts to about a $2 charge to change stuff sooner than you could otherwise do so. In the big picture that is not unreasonable.

Having items in the store that Provide CONVENIENCE has always been appropriate. Items in the store that enable results not achieveable in game are not. I was often on Chai's side in those numerous store discussions and I still am.

Turbine can save face (so to speak) and just offer up that they made a decimal point error in the correction to the charges. Upgrade the Loom Perks to no time limit and that gives them a purpose, just like the Raid timer evaders.

[ycheese123]

I knew the price was going to change to plat. I remember reading that the copper amount was incorrect, but I didn't assume that that meant the 140copper was going to change to 140kplat. I don't know why, but I figured they'd make it some reasonable amount (20k? max) . And I mean, I actually can afford the cost of resetting but there's no way that I'm going to pay that much for resting an ED and I will NOT spend TP on a loom. I still haven't bought a raid timer bypass, and all I do on my main is raid, I just wait the 3 days like before.

I guess it's goodbye to experimenting with different ED setups. Pick your abilities wisely, hope it's good, stick with it, and maybe miss out on something better/interesting. That's sad.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Why not? This change feels like a personal attack carried out by Turbine against us, the playerbase.

It's not personal, it's business.

Just really shady, very underhanded, makes a loanshark look good, kind of business.

[MindCake]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

Did I miss something? Wasn't that how the system was supposed to work in the first place?

[countfitz]

the first hug is free, but all additional hugs cost 150k plat.

:)

+1

[Chai]

Welcome to the future. The slippery slope has come to its masterful conclusion of act 1. Next on the store: level up tokens for leveling up, else you'll have to pay 10k x level plat to level up.

Dont give them any ideas. They already did try leveling sigils in the past which didnt work too well.

[djl]

I blame this all on Time Warner.

They are the greedy puppeteers behind this madness. Just recently, they enacted a change that requires people in certain states to pay an additional fee $4 a month to use their cable modem (on top of their other exorbitant service fees) or else buy a new one from their approved list. After seeing that, it doesn't surprise me that they'd push down something underhanded like this in another one of their products. Nickels and dimes, nickels and dimes. It's how corporate behemoths make their real money.

[Jay203]

ionno... that price seems fair for respec'ing a full destiny....

[Drwaz99]

I'm sorry, but being inappropriate is a known issue that I cannot fix. Please feel free to enter a bug report. Is there anything else I can help you with?

^this

[LordPiglet]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

It appears to be back to the original price, which was stated to be too high.

This is even more annoying since resetting it advertises for a loom of destiny and states that it's available from the store.

I really don't an increase in the price, it was too low, but now it's back to being way to high. It seems like there's no capacity for moderation, everything has to be at one extreme or another. I am also vastly annoyed by being nickeled and dimed to death by the optional ddo store.

Pricing on this should be akin to pricing on resetting enhancements. Sure we have player feed back on what might be good to use, but I don't know if a given aspect works for my play style unless I take it and try it. Now it's prohibitive to do so.

[Dendrix]

These costs are completly and utterly asanine.

reduce them by a factor of 10.

Appropriate costs: 10K, then 20K, then 30K then 40K is much more reasonable and appropriate. reset @ 3 days - or reduce current cost by 10K every day.

Simple, easy to understand and about right.

And the very idsea of waiting for update 16? Stupid and insulting.
(note: I refer the idea of waiting, not the person).
(note: I am the one insulted by this)

[Dawnsfire]

Shh! (That used to exist, minus the Store tokens part, so DON'T SUGGEST THESE THINGS, they could happen!)

I remember the Sigils of Leveling too (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sigil_of_Leveling). I was very happy to see them go. They were a bit worse though. You didn't have a plat choice back them. It was find a drop or pay TP. That was an old VIP perk I sure don't miss ;)

That said, now I wonder if that is Turbine's thinking now "If we had included a crazy plat price then maybe we could have kept the Sigils!". I hope not. . .

[The-Krell]

...This change sucks the fun out of Destinies....

Used to be fun to try out different stuff - get a couple of points - try something - keep it or reset - try something else. Guess that's gone now.

Even when an ability is WAI and sounds great it may still not be what you expected or fit your play style. But, it was still fun to try - not so much now.

[Gawna]

It's completely mind blowing that they expect us to pay an outrageous cost to not be stuck with broken abilities! Try working on fixing all the ED's that don't do what they say they do (or don't do anything at all!) and then worry about what it's going to cost. We are forced to be your beta testers and then you penalize us for it.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Is there a way to reset enhancements instantly in the DDO store?

Not yet, but when the Heroic Enhancement Pass is done.....

[DeafeningWhisper]

It's completely mind blowing that they expect us to pay an outrageous cost to not be stuck with broken abilities! Try working on fixing all the ED's that don't do what they say they do (or don't do anything at all!) and then worry about what it's going to cost. We are forced to be your beta testers and then you penalize us for it.

I'm VIP, I *already* pay to be a beta tester on live, I half expect a Turbine employee to show up at my doorstep one o these days demanding some of my blood too...

[jjflanigan]

Eeep! I tend to adjust my EDs around because the things I want to be able to twist in are quite often different than the things I need when I'm in that tree as a primary...this basically kills the ability to pick and choose twists to fit your current primary destiny.

It really should be reverted back to the copper cost until a "good" plan can be put in place for the reset costs. As it is, this is basically saying "Stop playing with Epic Destinies until update 16"

-JJ

[Chai]

Not yet, but when the Heroic Enhancement Pass is done.....

Three tree limit.

Fourth and fifth tree access dopant in the DDO store. Buy both at the same time and we'll throw in a pointy tinfoil hat that provides a +5 to will saves when worn.

[rdasca]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.

There are FOUR lights!!!

/sarcasm
Hey everyone look at the emperor’s great new clothes!
/sarcasm off

Funny I thought DDO was about trying out new builds, finding that “sweet spot” for how you want your toon to be, guess I was wrong.

You know when even those that are notorious for defending Turbine, come out and call this stupid, maybe just maybe it is.

[arminius]

Should be 1000 plat a point, and 3 day timer.

And Loom bypasses plat and timer.

The end.

[Missing_Minds]

It's completely mind blowing that they expect us to pay an outrageous cost to not be stuck with broken abilities! Try working on fixing all the ED's that don't do what they say they do (or don't do anything at all!) and then worry about what it's going to cost. We are forced to be your beta testers and then you penalize us for it.
But in one aspect I can't say I'm surprised either.

While it sucks for us players, the bean counters can use it to see just how many looms can be sold at what players consider to be outrageous plat prices.

Welcome to data gathering. *sigh*

[djl]

Should be 1000 plat a point, and 3 day timer.

And Loom bypasses plat and timer.

The end.

No, no timer. That's just as bad as a prohibitive plat cost.

Until (almost) everything with EDs is WAI, there should be NO penalty for resetting them.

[LafoMamone]

"Turbine, I want to thank you for making this well-thought-out and balanced change, which is based on extensive research and thorough surveys of the player base" - said no one ever

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[arminius]

No, no timer. That's just as bad as a prohibitive plat cost.

Until (almost) everything with EDs is WAI, there should be NO penalty for resetting them.

Yeah, i guess I meant that that is the desired end state. In this live beta test the previous copper cost and no timer is a-ok. However, I think just asserting that is a non-starter. Turbine just ain't gonna buy that, because it undermines their work with an admission that the code doesn't function at anywhere near a professional level.

[Cyndrome]

/signed.

When I agree with Thrud, Chai, Teh_, Stainer, and Mr. Wizard, you know something is broken. I can't wait till Ranncore and the other ragequitters ALSO respond to this thread, also agreeing with the fanbois. I'm also curious what Shade's going to say.

Seriously, never has a decision so unified the forums.

lol. I agree. This is not a doom thread, but it's quite the consensus. Might be time to listen Turbine.

- made me think of Ghostbusters line

Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!

[Gawna]

You have successfully canceled your Dungeons and Dragons Online™ subscription. We are sad to see you go, but you may resume it at any time. We hope to see you back soon!

Help us improve by filling out this Exit Survey.

Did the exit survey work for you? It was a link to nowhere for me.

[munificence]

Did the exit survey work for you? It was a link to nowhere for me.

Nope, just took me to some survey website that didn't have the appropriate survey questions for me to answer.

About the level of quality I've come to expect from this company.

[countfitz]

There are FOUR lights!!!

Nice :)

+1

[countfitz]

You have successfully canceled your Dungeons and Dragons Online™ subscription. We are sad to see you go, but you may resume it at any time. We hope to see you back soon!

Help us improve by filling out this Exit Survey.

+1

Good for you!

I wish I could do it, but I haven't paid them anything since MotU.

[Ranncore]

It's not very often that so many players so unanimously agree that a change is bad. Turbine should seriously rethink this.
Lately I've come to think that player feedback is a bit in vain, though. I honestly think Turbine doesn't really care anymore. There are enough die-hard fans to keep the company making (some) money even if they're the only players they retain through a series of awful changes.


Not yet, but when the Heroic Enhancement Pass is done.....

I have for some time now had serious reservations about the enhancement pass being a good thing. How many pay-to-win mechanics do you think will be implemented there? How much do you think it will cost to reset? Will there be loom-type items? PREs that have to be purchased?
I've got to hand it to Turbine though - they're a lot better at coming up with shmarmy business practices and inventing and implementing terrible game mechanics than I am. The most awful game changes or business practices I could think of to deteriorate the playerbase, they will come up with something far worse.

[HAL]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

I had "assumed" (that saying about assume is always right) that the very low price of respeccing was purposeful because so many of the EDs were buggy that people would HAVE to respec many times before finding EDs that actually worked for them. I guess it was bad logic on my part to assume that Turbine would use such good logic...:rolleyes:

[dynahawk]

I don't usually partake in these thread's but the blatant use of built in mechanics with "Convenience" items in ddo store is starting to get irritating.

My wallet, and my plat purse are closed for business. I will not pay either prices, we will see if it affects my play time/further desire to spend money on this game.

They have said they will adjust the costs, lets hope they decide to get it fixed in a decent time frame. Days not months.

[Gawna]

Nope, just took me to some survey website that didn't have the appropriate survey questions for me to answer.

About the level of quality I've come to expect from this company.

I PM'd Tolero and Cordovan a while back. Cordo asked for the link where it sent me, but I never got a response after that. :rolleyes:

[zwiebelring]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.
We don't attack each other or the staff but the price for respeccing. Please send this message to the appropriate authorities. Thank you.

[Lifeblood]

@Turbine

I think micro transactions are great. You guys stumbled onto a great thing when you implemented it. I believe there can be to much of a good thing though, and you might be approaching it. Some of the marketing decisions recently could be seen as "greedy". Certainly not by me, I love everything, but to some cynical outsiders it might appear that way.

It might be time to reevaluate the goals.

you of all people/// /cry

[DeafeningWhisper]

I don't usually partake in these thread's but the blatant use of built in mechanics with "Convenience" items in ddo store is starting to get irritating.

My wallet, and my plat purse are closed for business. I will not pay either prices, we will see if it affects my play time/further desire to spend money on this game.

They have said they will adjust the costs, lets hope they decide to get it fixed in a decent time frame. Days not months.

Current time frame is U16, so months...

[DarkForte]

I'm waiting until u16 comes live and you fix this to a reasonable cost before cancelling my sub (my sub's already paid for either way). Pretty sure there's comparable games with less ridiculous money-grabbing on the market.

[Ranncore]

They have said they will adjust the costs, lets hope they decide to get it fixed in a decent time frame. Days not months.

Soon. Like the changes to fix challenge XP.

[gerardIII]

Correct. It had also been listed in the known issues since MOTU that the price was wrong and would be changed so that there would be no surprises once the fix went in =/
Everyone reads the Known Issues because everyone knows that the list is accurate and the bug that is the most destructive will be dealt with ASAP.

I guess it wasn't enough paying for the expansion, we have to pay each time we want to adjust one bugged Epic Destiny.
Resetting the enhancements is free at lvl 20, why do the bugged Epic Destinies cost so much to be reset?

I'm sure there were more important things to be fixed, but YAFBTWBTP (Yet Another Fixed Bug That Was Beneficial To Players).



I haven't paid them anything since MotU.
Same here.
The actual reason is that my CC doesn't work with Turbine, but it works with Amazon.

[Eladiun]

We appreciate feedback, but personal attacks towards each other or the staff are not appropriate. Please keep it within the guidelines.


I wish I could make a fake account to post from so I could pretend not to be me too.

[Zenako]

The cost to reset ED before today was so ridiculously low I had to wonder why they even bothered. Right, any EPIC level character even worried about anything being priced in coppers without seeing 7 or more digits in the number was mind boggling.

Many ways to dig out of this bad spot.

1) mea culpa, whoops erred by a factor of 10. (by the way in the future some costs and timers might change). AND drop the cost by the amount via hot fix ASAP.

2) simply revert to current until all the issues with ED are clarified and addressed.

3) Provide some down the road guidance. Much like they have given out Hearts in the past when lots of feat/class things changed, pass out Looms when they change core elements of the ED system. Grant VIP's a perk of one loom/character of EPIC levels per month (Can make those BTA to avoid AH dumping).

4) change cost system for ED to something akin to 1K per Point in the Destiny you are redoing. (easy to understand...blah blah blah...)

[Ovrad]

I'm sorry, but being inappropriate is a known issue that I cannot fix. Please feel free to enter a bug report. Is there anything else I can help you with?

Exactly.
«We're looking into it. Soon(tm)»



also /pitchfork!

[Eladiun]

This thread is so full of loss. There is much whining, hyperbole, and conspiracy. I guess people need to get their drama somehow.

I'm pretty sure the high cost is NOT a conspiracy to get people to buy looms, it's to deter people from metagaming their top ED's.

1) You don't have to believe anyone but when both Sirgog and Crazy damage post almost identical threads regarding the disappearance of end game players maybe it's not all talk. I personally know of at least a dozen Khyber end game players who were 30 plus hour a week players who have left or significantly scaled back how often they play. People who stuck through the times when there was no content.

2) Conspiracies are hidden. This is plain to see. The whole destiny system revolves around the sale of store items. Don't want to grind three levels buy this to skip it. Want extra fate points without he crazy grind; buy a fate tome. Want to reset a destiny; buy a loom. At what point does designing a system to be odious equate to trying to milk the community.

[Vellrad]

You have successfully canceled your Dungeons and Dragons Online™ subscription. We are sad to see you go, but you may resume it at any time. We hope to see you back soon!

Help us improve by filling out this Exit Survey.

soon, it will cost few thousands TP to cancel sub...

[HAL]

Agreed... I'm the same way...

This isn't a bug... This is just stupid... And the devs need to stop hard-coding everything into their compiled code. These kind of formulas should be in their database, easy to change without pushing out a hotfix...

We shouldn't have to wait until Update 16 to get this fixed.

This.

People will leave over this. I don't know anyone who can afford this even until U16. If people get to the point where they can't stand to play their character without respeccing and they can't respec, they will simply stop playing. And if they get involved in something else while waiting for the change, they may not come back.

[licho]

Turbine Logic:
1. Pick something which is not a problem.
2. Break it. So now it really is.
3. Wait to unrest bloom. And then maybe fix it back to state 0.
4. Be happy you fix the problems pointed by community.

Im not sure if it really work that way, especially when phase 2->3 takes quite long.
I just hope it will not become:
3. Introduce to DDO store item which allows to bypass problem.
4.???
5. Profit

[gerardIII]

The cost to reset ED before today was so ridiculously low I had to wonder why they even bothered. Right, any EPIC level character even worried about anything being priced in coppers without seeing 7 or more digits in the number was mind boggling.

Many ways to dig out of this bad spot.

1) mea culpa, whoops erred by a factor of 10. (by the way in the future some costs and timers might change). AND drop the cost by the amount via hot fix ASAP.

2) simply revert to current until all the issues with ED are clarified and addressed.

3) Provide some down the road guidance. Much like they have given out Hearts in the past when lots of feat/class things changed, pass out Looms when they change core elements of the ED system. Grant VIP's a perk of one loom/character of EPIC levels per month (Can make those BTA to avoid AH dumping).

4) change cost system for ED to something akin to 1K per Point in the Destiny you are redoing. (easy to understand...blah blah blah...)

5) Introduce a plat source for Epic Characters, like increased plat from chests in epic quests/raids. This ED reset cost is a plat sink specific to epic characters, but there is no new plat source for epic characters.

[Missing_Minds]

you of all people/// /cry

It is Stainer, you know... high priestess of Lolth? aka follower of chaos? Don't let it worry you.

[Zenako]

I find it interesting in some way how many of the posters in this thread have first year start dates. Not Johnny come lately's but long timers.

Who is EPIC really aimed at? Are there really a lot of new players hitting those levels or are most of the names ones that have been around a while? Would be real interesting to see any sort of demographic data on what players are at what levels in the game. Do most newer players go the single toon route? Most long time players I know have stables of characters so costs like this get magnified when tacked onto 6+ characters at a time. (I know I usually go bonkers when they have limited time events with "must have" gear to grind for...due to so many characters and accounts.)

Perhaps most EPIC characters actually have millions of plat (mine don't) and this is not a HUGE burden on them, statistically at least. Neither of the two EPIC I was playing the other night have over 200K on them. Perhaps the vocal types here are the exception and not the new rule in the game? or perhaps not.

[Chai]

Turbine Logic:
1. Pick something which is not a problem.
2. Break it. So now it really is.
3. Wait to unrest bloom. And then maybe fix it back to state 0.
4. Be happy you fix the problems pointed by community.

Im not sure if it really work that way, especially when phase 2->3 takes quite long.
I just hope it will not become:
3. Introduce to DDO store item which allows to bypass problem.
4.???
5. Profit

It already has become:

3. Introduce to DDO store item which allows to bypass problem.
4.???
5. Profit

All of the arbitrary barriers of the past will be able to be circumvented through microtransactions.

[DeafeningWhisper]

You now what's really sad? When I read the change was coming I was naive enough to think: "Oh they are going to fix the way it's presented so it reads in plat and not this huge looking number in copper".

I thought it was going to be a description change, forgot those are reserved for not-so-stealthy-nerfs...

[Zenako]

5) Introduce a plat source for Epic Characters, like increased plat from chests in epic quests/raids. This ED reset cost is a plat sink specific to epic characters, but there is no new plat source for epic characters.

EPIC Dowsing Rods!!!!! That worked well the first time...NOT.

The problem is that PLAT is fungible and if made easy for EPICs to get, you soon inflate the whole market due to trickle down activity.

[Eladiun]

Who is EPIC really aimed at?


There was a time I would have said the best of the best but that changed with U14. Someone convinced Turbine that is you accelerated all of your new and casual players to higher levels (i.e. XP Stones) and make things easier, they would be interested in Epics and grinding. The reality is they are still casual players and you instead lost not only your top ten percent but left the next 40% lost and bored as well.


BTW, most of us payed 40-80 dollars already for the privilege of playing this broken content which is still broken 4 months later.

[djl]

BTW, most of us payed 40-80 dollars already for the privilege of playing this broken content which is still broken 4 months later.

That's the great irony in this-- we all paid quite a bit for this broken content, and now they want us to pay EVEN more to take full advantage of it.

[fco-karatekid]

My ONLY complaint about this, really, is where ED's effects don't match their descriptions - it feels like fraud - albeit we're talking about plat here, of course.

Assuming that weren't the case, I really don't see 150k being a problem since it's kinda like Skills... LR to repair any mistakes you've made in taking the progression. I WOULD have considered 50-75k a more reasonable price; but 150k is acceptable IF buyer beware weren't currently the case.

[Scraap]

That's the great irony in this-- we all paid quite a bit for this broken content, and now they want us to pay EVEN more to take full advantage of it.

I suspect they haven't quite grasped that "buy it once OR rent" vs "buy it once, then buy portions of it again and again ad infinitum" was the store distinction that attracted many of us to the business model, leaving aside genre and IP.

[Ranncore]

I suspect they haven't quite grasped that "buy it once OR rent" vs "buy it once, then buy portions of it again and again ad infinitum" was the store distinction that attracted many of us to the business model, leaving aside genre and IP.

Certainly, the greatest attraction I've had to this game is Dungeons and Dragons, and I'll try any Dungeons and Dragons regardless of the developer or subscription model. I think Turbine knows this, and it feels like all of their latest developments have been cash-grabs on a waning playerbase they suspect (in many cases, rightly so) will be all to eager to abandon them for the next best Dungeons and Dragons game.
It didn't have to be this way. Before MOTU, I had no interest in finding other games to play. Post MOTU, every patch gives me a new reason to look elsewhere.

[fco-karatekid]

The price is based on the number of points spent in the tree. We're looking at reducing the costs and replacing the high cost with a multiplier that decays over time if you reset the trees extremely often.

T - read past the anger and look at the issue at hand - have the devs consider REMOVING that mechanic until the ED's are stable and work as described. THEN put it back... the only time a player will need to respec at all at that point is when THEY make a mistake... there SHOULD be a cost to our build mistakes... not to misplaced trust.

[DarkForte]

THEN put it back...

The point is the price is so prohibitive buying them through TP is the only feasible option for a good partof the player base. On top of the bugginess.

It's a heck of a money-grabbing business model that benefits the players in absolutely no way.

[macubrae]

...now that we know how much it is supposed to cost to reset EDs, how about dropping the price back down until they are all WAI? When that update happens and the price shoots right back up, it will be somewhat expected and seem less like a suprise prostate exam. Leave it on the bug list so players can't say it wasn't there and fix your end when ours is fixed.

Seems fair to me, or is it too logical?