Duo for "Completionist Questing"

[Laeelin]

I'm thinking about playing with a friend to duo our way to 20 with the following rules:

1) All quests on Elite.
2) All optionals on all quests.
3) If it's not possible to do this without hirelings - we will use hirelings... (not ddo store bought)
4) Raids are skipped.
5) We will start as level 7 veterans, doing level 5 quests. We will TR when all quests level 5+ are completed and then we will continue following the rules until all quests are completed.

Traps / Locks - One of us will need to be a trapper that can get elite traps.

Runes - We will need to have Str / Int / Wis / Cha all at a high enough level to get through runes. Can hirelings pass these on elite quests?

For gearing - at the lower levels we can craft our gear, but before long we will not be able to make current gear anymore (I'm in the upper 40's and I think he is in the upper 50's for skill levels) Both characters will be on the first life, and we can do some farming for BtA items on other characters.

========== My first thoughs on the builds ==========

Excuse my lack of experience on elite quests. For example I may be putting far to much importance on having high saves. Thats why I'm posting this here first :)

I normally zerg quests, so I have little experience in this style of questing. I could be very wrong, but I don't think that two casters will have enough mana to get all the slayers in elite quests.

Idea 1:
My first though is two radiant servant clerics. One will need either rogue or arti levels. All the other levels can be in either fighter or monk. Both builds need to be super tough and most of the healing would be from radiant servant. Two arua running at the same time would be a lot of passive healing.

HE 12 Cleric / 6 Rogue / 2 Monk with paladin dilly. - This is the evasion trapper. High int and rogue levels for max trap skills. The monk levels for handwraps and wis to armor. The level order would be Rogue, Monk, Cleric x 6, Rogue, Monk, and then Cleric with Rogue as needed to keep skills high enough to open all locks and traps.

HE 12 Cleric / 8 Fighter with paladin dilly - THF with intimidate, a bastard sword and a tower shield. Level order would be Cleric x 6, Fighter x 2, Cleric x 6, Fighter x 6.

We can pass wisdom runes and str runes ourselves. We would need a hireling to pass cha and int runes. Simple enough with two hirelings.

Idea 2:
WF 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue - Trapper with evasion and normal wizard dots and abilities...
WF 20 Sorc - Pure DPS.

Both able to self heal very well. Hirelings for Str / Wis runes.

Idea 3:
WF 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue - Trapper with evasion and normal wizard dots and abilities... (Int Runes)
WF FvS 18 FvS / 2 Paladin - Melee healer (Str / Wis / Cha Runes)

Idea 4:
WF 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue - Trapper with evasion... -40% hate Subtle Spellcasting.
HO 14 Cleric / 6 Fighter - Melee healer with THF, intimidate, a bastard sword and a tower shield. This guy holds the aggro while the other does the dps. +50% hate with HE Brute Fighting and Stalwart Defender 1.

HO charges the room and the Wizard drops a couple AE's.

I like the 1st and 4th idea the most.

[WargamerIV]

I'm thinking about playing with a friend to duo our way to 20 with the following rules:

1) All quests on Elite.
2) All optionals on all quests.
3) If it's not possible to do this without hirelings - we will use hirelings... (not ddo store bought)
4) Raids are skipped.
5) We will start as level 7 veterans, doing level 5 quests. We will TR when all quests level 5+ are completed and then we will continue following the rules until all quests are completed.

Traps / Locks - One of us will need to be a trapper that can get elite traps.

Runes - We will need to have Str / Int / Wis / Cha all at a high enough level to get through runes. Can hirelings pass these on elite quests?

For gearing - at the lower levels we can craft our gear, but before long we will not be able to make current gear anymore (I'm in the upper 40's and I think he is in the upper 50's for skill levels) Both characters will be on the first life, and we can do some farming for BtA items on other characters.

========== My first thoughs on the builds ==========

Excuse my lack of experience on elite quests. For example I may be putting far to much importance on having high saves. Thats why I'm posting this here first :)

I normally zerg quests, so I have little experience in this style of questing. I could be very wrong, but I don't think that two casters will have enough mana to get all the slayers in elite quests.

Idea 1:
My first though is two radiant servant clerics. One will need either rogue or arti levels. All the other levels can be in either fighter or monk. Both builds need to be super tough and most of the healing would be from radiant servant. Two arua running at the same time would be a lot of passive healing.

HE 12 Cleric / 6 Rogue / 2 Monk with paladin dilly. - This is the evasion trapper. High int and rogue levels for max trap skills. The monk levels for handwraps and wis to armor. The level order would be Rogue, Monk, Cleric x 6, Rogue, Monk, and then Cleric with Rogue as needed to keep skills high enough to open all locks and traps.

HE 12 Cleric / 8 Fighter with paladin dilly - THF with intimidate, a bastard sword and a tower shield. Level order would be Cleric x 6, Fighter x 2, Cleric x 6, Fighter x 6.

We can pass wisdom runes and str runes ourselves. We would need a hireling to pass cha and int runes. Simple enough with two hirelings.

Idea 2:
WF 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue - Trapper with evasion and normal wizard dots and abilities...
WF 20 Sorc - Pure DPS.

Both able to self heal very well. Hirelings for Str / Wis runes.

Idea 3:
WF 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue - Trapper with evasion and normal wizard dots and abilities... (Int Runes)
WF FvS 18 FvS / 2 Paladin - Melee healer (Str / Wis / Cha Runes)

Idea 4:
WF 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue - Trapper with evasion... -40% hate Subtle Spellcasting.
HO 14 Cleric / 6 Fighter - Melee healer with THF, intimidate, a bastard sword and a tower shield. This guy holds the aggro while the other does the dps. +50% hate with HE Brute Fighting and Stalwart Defender 1.

HO charges the room and the Wizard drops a couple AE's.

I like the 1st and 4th idea the most.

To answer a few of your questions.

For step 5 I assume you mean you will level, not TR when all the quests are done.

Yes hirelings can usually use the runes if they are of the right type of course (don't use a caster for a WIS rune) and they are the highest level you can summon. I can't remember who, but there is at least one hireling who doesn't have the WIS for WIS runes.

As for mana on most p2p quests there will be enough shrines so that you don't need mana pots if you are careful. You should also get some extra SP from a ring or something.

I like 2, 3 or 4 more than 1 depending on playing style. Also you could use a Human PM Wiz 18/Rog2 with a FvS. I would plan to eat +2 tomes for CON, primary stat and (for any melee) STR right from the start.

Also you may find that running all the quests on elite like this will give you too much XP around level 9-10 on first life especially if you get explorer and rare in the wilderness areas. You will also have to do a few level 4 quests as I recall to get flagged for some of the level 5 quests.

Have fun.

[Dielzen]

a 17/3 clonk can hit Str/Wis, an 18art/2mnk (evasion splash, can go pure if you like) can hit your int/cha, and both builds will be viable in end-game raids.

[zeichen-thest]

Personally, my favorite duo team is a BRB and a FVS. I find that we can always do all elites at lvl.

However for versatility, an Arti and FVS is a nice combo.

I don't do splash builds but what others have said looks good also. I play only pure builds as I don't like giving up the capstones they are awesome.

[krtkoo]

I'm thinking about playing with a friend to duo our way to 20 with the following rules:

1) All quests on Elite.
2) All optionals on all quests.
3) If it's not possible to do this without hirelings - we will use hirelings... (not ddo store bought)
4) Raids are skipped.
5) We will start as level 7 veterans, doing level 5 quests. We will TR when all quests level 5+ are completed and then we will continue following the rules until all quests are completed.



I am curious if you are aware of the fact that running every quest will give you too much xp needed for 1st lifer? and I think I would never TR without gs equipment (since you want to skip raids).

if you manage to do all quests duo on elite (especially reaver refugee q, amrath q and cannith q), you should post it to achievement forum.

[Pank]

An arty pet, if you have augment summoning feat, can hit many runes, esp STR, WIS if you have Owl's wisdom wands. Have not tried others because as an arty you are supposed to have high INT

[DarkForte]

My opinion:

Wisdom-based favoured soul and 18 Artificer/2 rogue are sufficient for most purposes on your OP. Only quest that comes to mind as impossible without going wonky with yugo pots and such is VoN5.

[Munkenmo]

i'd go for an 18/2 wizard rogue, and a 20 warforged monk.

that'll get you through everything, and is a pretty forgiving as a first life combination.

if you're willing to give up the int runes, a 20fvs and a 18/2 rogue/barb is a very easy pair to level 20 too.

[Lauraliane]

My opinion:

Wisdom-based favoured soul and 18 Artificer/2 rogue are sufficient for most purposes on your OP. Only quest that comes to mind as impossible without going wonky with yugo pots and such is VoN5.

My wife and I are currently playing a duo close to this, the only thing is that she is going pure artificer.

Why 2 rogues level? Is it only for evasion?

Also I am Str based Favored soul, not Wis base, which I am feeling I will regret soon :/ What are the exact advantages of going Wis base? Is it for Blade Barriers or/and something else?

[GlassJaw]

My choice for a duo would be a WF or Human Art and a WF LotB FvS. Both can heal themselves and each other, both have BB, you have melee and ranged ability, and traps covered. The only thing you don't have is evasion but that's not a necessity.

That duo will destroy content.


Also I am Str based Favored soul, not Wis base, which I am feeling I will regret soon :/ What are the exact advantages of going Wis base? Is it for Blade Barriers or/and something else?

The 2 main paths for a FvS is max-Wis Evoker or Str-based WF LotB. Check out the Spellcaster forum - there are some very long threads on both types.

[Jsbeer]

My choice for a duo would be a WF or Human Art and a WF LotB FvS. Both can heal themselves and each other, both have BB, you have melee and ranged ability, and traps covered. The only thing you don't have is evasion but that's not a necessity.

That duo will destroy content.



The 2 main paths for a FvS is max-Wis Evoker or Str-based WF LotB. Check out the Spellcaster forum - there are some very long threads on both types.

I personally play a melee WF LoB, but was thinking that perhaps a Half-Elf melee FvS with Fighter dilly might be even better: 50% better BASE healing amp, healing/searing light capstone, Human Versatility, +1 STR (perhaps +2 with Fighter dilly?) and access to any martial weapon is pretty nice. The only really important things you lose is immunity to level drain and 3 CON.

[Lauraliane]

I personally play a melee WF LoB, but was thinking that perhaps a Half melee FvS with Fighter dilly might be even better: 50% better BASE healing amp, healing/searing light capstone, Human Versatility, and access to any martial weapon is pretty nice.

That's what I play, Half Elf Melee FVS but with Rogue Dilly :)

[DarkForte]

My wife and I are currently playing a duo close to this, the only thing is that she is going pure artificer.

Why 2 rogues level? Is it only for evasion?

Also I am Str based Favored soul, not Wis base, which I am feeling I will regret soon :/ What are the exact advantages of going Wis base? Is it for Blade Barriers or/and something else?

Yes, it's just for evasion. Most of the time, I'd say go pure, because there are only a few instances where evasion would really matter. Considering, though, they want to do EVERYTHING, those few instances start to matter.

Wis-based favored soul gets the best blade barriers/implosions/destructions, and has the sp to spam them recklessly, something the Art has not. After level 12, it's hands down one of the best leveling builds in the game (and it can do wis/cha runes so long as you don't dumpstat cha too much, so that's another plus). I do have a melee wf favored soul, but for leveling 12-20, wis-based blade barriers steamrolls melee so hard it's not even funny.

[zeichen-thest]

You really think that a FVS BB is more powerful than an Arti? That is ridiculous. My first life Art at lvl 20 had a 40DC to his BB with 220 force power. Now that I am lvl 25 my DC is above 50 with ship buffs and force power is 275 when wearing force power item. My fire is only 200 but my tactical det. does a lot of damage. I don't think that my lvl 25 fvs even comes close to the same dps.

[DarkForte]

You really think that a FVS BB is more powerful than an Arti? That is ridiculous. My first life Art at lvl 20 had a 40DC to his BB with 220 force power. Now that I am lvl 25 my DC is above 50 with ship buffs and force power is 275 when wearing force power item. My fire is only 200 but my tactical det. does a lot of damage. I don't think that my lvl 25 fvs even comes close to the same dps.

My point is, a fvs can spam it with no regards to anything else when leveling due to high SP, gets it 3 levels before the artificer (5 if it's a splash), and will only have around 10 or 20 less spell power to boot. When leveling, the SP and earlier access make a big difference.

[der_kluge]

My suggestion would be Artificer (pure) with high Int, Dex and Con.
And cleric18/monk2 with high Str, Wis, and Charisma.

My friend and I are playing together as TRs (he on his 2nd, and I on my 4th) as an Arty and a cleric (pure). It works very well. I'm weak against undead, which is where he shines - otherwise, I bring a ton of DPS to the table with my ridiculously over-powered repeating crossbow (+1 riptide heavy repeating crossbow of lacerating), and he bashes doors, and opens valves for me that I cannot.

[Bloodhaven]

Yes, it's just for evasion. Most of the time, I'd say go pure, because there are only a few instances where evasion would really matter. Considering, though, they want to do EVERYTHING, those few instances start to matter.

Wis-based favored soul gets the best blade barriers/implosions/destructions, and has the sp to spam them recklessly, something the Art has not. After level 12, it's hands down one of the best leveling builds in the game (and it can do wis/cha runes so long as you don't dumpstat cha too much, so that's another plus). I do have a melee wf favored soul, but for leveling 12-20, wis-based blade barriers steamrolls melee so hard it's not even funny.

Sp on a FvS is Cha based not Wis based.

[Lyria]

Sp on a FvS is Cha based not Wis based.

Yes, but he means (I assume) that FvS naturally have MUCH higher mana pools than an artificer.

An 18th level artificer has 800 base mana.
An 18th level favored soul has 1495 base mana.

Then factor in the 1.8x bonus for wizardry/archmagi items (assuming an 18/2 split), and the fvs is going to be around 700 mana ahead of the artificer, even if the arti goes for 18 base int and all level-ups, while the fvs can start with a 12-14 cha and not put a single level-up point into it.

[der_kluge]

Why are you comparing Arty to FvS? One can get traps, and one can't. The Arty also brings a ton of DPS to the table, that the FvS doesn't. I don't know about end game, but I just solo'd Irestone on elite at level 6 with my artificer. I could never have done that with my FvS at level 6.

That's why I recommended the Arty & clonk combo. It should cover every situation you could possibly encounter.