Twists?

[Pyrcador]

Im not sure which twists to take.

Tier 1 Endless Faith from Exalted Angel seems to be good, since i would get quite a bit of extra spellpoints.
(Endless faith: Passive Bonus: Spell point pool increased by [4/7/10]%. Echoes of power restore up to [18/24/30] sp.)
Shiradi champion Tier 2 Fey Form is also on my List for the DR and Spell Power.
(Fey Form: Passive Bonus: Gain DR [3/5/7]/ Cold Iron and +[5/10/15] Spell Power.)

But for the last one im quite unsure what to take.

Im thinking on Magister Tier 2 school specialist for extra DC because i dont have greater spellfocus and -2 char as a Warforged. But i have no idea what DC i should have for endgame.

Other Idea on the same Problem would be Magister Tier 3 Evocation augmentation for the chance to reduce the saves. But this would only be an option for bosses because i oneshot most other enemies.

Magister Tier 4 Sigil of Battering Spellcraft would be another option for more damage. But i dont like to have too much active abilitys for damageoutput. So far im too lazy to use awaken elemental weakness and my TOD-Set for extra damage most of the time. So this would maybe a big waste since its Tier 4.

Magister Tier 4 evocation Familiarity seems quite powerful for Mages, but for a sorc it seems not as necessary. Would just be worth to think about to cast the spell-like abilitys a bit more often and save sp.

Last idea is Magister Tier 4 Call kindred being just for the fun of it. ^^

Im a tr lawful good warforged watersavant with maxed charisma and constitution. As feats i got spell focus evocation, the mental toughness line including epic, epic toughness, maximize, empower and heighten.


Any suggestions or ideas?

[Tid12]

The extra fort from US is good. 140% fort will make you uncrittable for most mobs (there is only 1-2 that can bypass more than 140% fort)

+2 DC is essential for epic elites, specially if you are a WF.

On my sorc, I have dropped Fey form for +2 DC, 40% fort and Endless Faith.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'm assuming your stay-in stance is going to be draconic? A few things i'd consider:
- Stay Frosty/Stay Good - the damage procs are boosted by spellpower, would add some nice extra dps
- Wild Shots/Boulder toss - an sp-free damage-dealer that does purely physical damage & boosted by force/kinetic effects, good for lump damage vs. things that have magic resistances
- Brace for impact - 40% extra fort & +2 all saves are never a bad thing for those times things get closer
- Imperceptible casting - 95% less aggro from spell damage for 20secs.. you can nuke away without risking pulling aggro accidentally from the tank
- sigil of battering spellcraft - +45 spellpower is a hefty boost to your damage-dealing :)

[jeremyt]

completely different setup with my sorc, as my feats consist of spell foc evo/necro + active wiz PL. Spell pen/grtr spell pen/epic spell pen, max/emp and heighten. WF necro air sav w/ cold secondary.

My twists currently sitting on magister 3% dodge/6 reflex tier 1. the magister +3 necro tier 2 and then draconic incarnation tier 1 fort save 6/nat AC 6 tier 1. This is my setup while gaining ED XPs to finish off my twists.

Endgame plan is to be a magister ED
slot #1 fatespinner sorc twist (+1 cha, 25 SP, 7 stacking spell power, +1 nat AC, +2 saves vs poison) tier 3
slot #2 Fey form (stacking universal 15 spell power, 9 cold iron DR) tier 2
slot #3 endless faith (all goodies you listed) tier 1

I think the highest fod/wail DCs ive seen with this setup are 48. I went with magister as all-around it seemed more powerful with how I play my sorc, the faster casting times, the spell cost reduction, and the solid DC bonuses

[Pyrcador]

Yes, ill stay at draconic incarnation.

Btw...can anyone confirm that precise casting and school specialist stack for a total of +6 DC?

Edit:
@ jeremit: i didnt go this way, because i think that others are better in necro. I would never be as good as a mage so i decidet to go pure dps.

[Tid12]

Yes, ill stay at draconic incarnation.

Btw...can anyone confirm that precise casting and school specialist stack for a total of +6 DC?
.

+5 DC. Precise casting is only tier 2. 2+3 = 5 DC. And they stack, yes.

[Nerveya]

*Modified after a slight bit of misinformation on my part*

It has a lot to do with what you want to do. You can always swap twists depending if you're solo'ing/partying/raiding to suit your needs.

For Soloing, I usually use Fey Form (Damage and DR since I use itemsets that don't allow for DR), Magister DCs (Can't do damage if they save... and on EE they save quite a bit xD) and a wild slot. I usually fill the last twist with either Healing Spring (Free heals that are effected by potency? I get healed for 300 with no healing amp... awesome :D), Primal Scream (+5 CON? Huzzah! HP is always good), Fast Healing (if I want something more consistent than Healing Spring), or Brace for Impact. However, you can pick and choose whatever you feel is useful. Boulder Toss, Dirge, Stay Frosty, etc... are all really cool and have some uses. I would say that Magister DCs are 100% necessary, though. If they save, you do 0 if you're air/acid savant. Cold savant has some leeway, but they also have less versatility while soloing anyway lol.

*Contrary to popular belief (and that of a poster above) even 140% fort doesn't make you immune to all the crits on EE. It helps get you near full crit immunity, mind you, but you can't really get immunity unless you go full ****** (160%+) or are a wizard. It can help in EN/EH, but EE is a whole other monster. You get 2-3 shotted on EE with over 700 HP (Granted by certain mobs. You usually get tagged for 120-150 by trash). Besides, your mitigation comes from kiting, dodging (if you have it), and displace/blur. If you are getting hit, you better be a wizard or you're going to die in there anyway lol. You have some more flexibility with WF... but you aren't anywhere close to invincible.

For Parties/Raids? DPS if king. Max your DCs and Spellpower. That means Fey Form, Magister DCs, and Echoes of Ancestors, Arcane. Boulder Toss/Wild Shots could be useful... But you want consistency and to amplify what you do best: DOT and nuke. And that's all you should be doing as a sorc in raids anyway.

[Tid12]

*Contrary to popular belief (and that of a poster above) even 140% fort doesn't make you immune to even half the crits on EE. It helps, mind you, but you can't really get immunity unless you go full ****** and are a wizard. It sure helps in EN/EH, but EE is a whole other monster. You get 2-3 shotted on EE with over 700 HP. Besides, your mitigation comes from kiting, dodging (if you have it), and displace/blur. If you are getting hit, you better be a wizard or you're going to die in there anyway lol. You have some more flexibility with WF... but you aren't anywhere close to invincible.


Don't spread wrong informations please. Doesn't make you immune to even half the crits? Have you 140% fort on your char? Have you tried? Do you run EE? My guess is not so much.

Mobs can bypass fort = to their CR. 140% fort makes you immune to most of the mobs crits in EE. There are a couple of mobs that can crit you with 140% fort: One is the matron of House of Rusted Blades, CR 50. This is the only one I can remember at the moment. If you wanna be completely immune to crits, 160% fort is required. However, not needed. 140% is all you want.

[Nerveya]

Don't spread wrong informations please. Doesn't make you immune to even half the crits? Have you 140% fort on your char? Have you tried? Do you run EE? My guess is not so much.

Mobs can bypass fort = to their CR. 140% fort makes you immune to most of the mobs crits in EE. There are a couple of mobs that can crit you with 140% fort: One is the matron of House of Rusted Blades, CR 50. This is the only one I can remember at the moment. If you wanna be completely immune to crits, 160% fort is required. However, not needed. 140% is all you want.

Hm, apologies. I seemed to have been misinformed. I had always thought it was 2*CR worth of fort. That makes it far more worthwhile. Still, my points stand separate: If you're getting hit on EE enough to worry about 40 extra fortification, you're doing something wrong as a Sorcerer who has 100 by default (or at least I hope you carry heavy fort...). Thank you for the information, though, and apologies for the unintended misinformation =/ +1

Also, I run EE most every day on varying builds, but mostly solo on my Sorcerer. I take it slow and steady, and pretty careful, so I don't really care about fort beyond my 100%. If you get hit 4-5 times, you're probably going to die. That's just how it works. Would I value fortification more on lower difficulties such as EH or EN? Probably not. They're a cakewalk in comparison. Either way, it's all personal preference. You shouldn't assume because I don't know one thing that I can't function in end game content XD

But alas, I don't want to risk derailment. *modified my old post*

[Tid12]

Hm, apologies. I seemed to have been misinformed. I had always thought it was 2*CR worth of fort. That makes it far more worthwhile. Still, my points stand separate: If you're getting hit on EE enough to worry about 40 extra fortification, you're doing something wrong as a Sorcerer who has 100 by default (or at least I hope you carry heavy fort...). Thank you for the information, though, and apologies for the unintended misinformation =/ +1

Also, I run EE most every day on varying builds, but mostly solo on my Sorcerer. I take it slow and steady, and pretty careful, so I don't really care about fort beyond my 100%. If you get hit 4-5 times, you're probably going to die. That's just how it works. Would I value fortification more on lower difficulties such as EH or EN? Probably not. They're a cakewalk in comparison. Either way, it's all personal preference. You shouldn't assume because I don't know one thing that I can't function in end game content XD

But alas, I don't want to risk derailment. *modified my old post*

And I'm sorry for the tone a bit rude :)

But yeah, their CR = the fort they can bypass. Having 140% in EE is essential imho. 1 crit every 2-3 hits (100% - 40% they can bypass = 60% fort) and you are more dead than alive. Some bosses crit for 350-400 and that isn't good. Since when I twisted Brace for Impact, I haven't seen a crit for a while.

EH and EN are so easy that I wouldn't worry about them. With heavy fort they are easily doable.

[Nerveya]

And I'm sorry for the tone a bit rude :)

But yeah, their CR = the fort they can bypass. Having 140% in EE is essential imho. 1 crit every 2-3 hits (100% - 40% they can bypass = 60% fort) and you are more dead than alive. Some bosses crit for 350-400 and that isn't good. Since when I twisted Brace for Impact, I haven't seen a crit for a while.

EH and EN are so easy that I wouldn't worry about them. With heavy fort they are easily doable.

I would agree, and np xD I'm a little sick, and moody as all get out. It's never a good thing to feed disinformation, even if unintentionally and I was surprised that I was wrong in all honesty... Too spoiled off of wizard, it would seem. Thank you for pointing it out!

I will probably seriously consider taking brace for impact now, tbh. Sometimes things just hit a bit too hard for your liking (cough bears in Druid's Deep cough) and you go from 400 to 'oh **** dance!' status. On another note, the boost to saves is never a bad thing. Especially if you run Force of Personality (I know, old school feat right? Not bad nowadays if you don't run kundarak warding boots full time like I do though).

All in all, I'll probably end up with Fey Form (It's mostly for the DR... and 15 spellpower is a lot for one twist!), Magister DCs (I run air savant mostly for the utility and moderate range of spells with no damage cap), and Brace for Impact. In raids situations, I'd probably switch out brace for something else... but healers in my guild tend to not live up to their title very often :X the other tier 1s/2s could have warrant, but you can't dps if you're dead =D

[Tid12]

I would agree, and np xD I'm a little sick, and moody as all get out. It's never a good thing to feed disinformation, even if unintentionally and I was surprised that I was wrong in all honesty... Too spoiled off of wizard, it would seem. Thank you for pointing it out!

I'm a little sick too! lol



I will probably seriously consider taking brace for impact now, tbh. Sometimes things just hit a bit too hard for your liking (cough bears in Druid's Deep cough) and you go from 400 to 'oh **** dance!' status. On another note, the boost to saves is never a bad thing. Especially if you run Force of Personality (I know, old school feat right? Not bad nowadays if you don't run kundarak warding boots full time like I do though).

All in all, I'll probably end up with Fey Form (It's mostly for the DR... and 15 spellpower is a lot for one twist!), Magister DCs (I run air savant mostly for the utility and moderate range of spells with no damage cap), and Brace for Impact. In raids situations, I'd probably switch out brace for something else... but healers in my guild tend to not live up to their title very often :X the other tier 1s/2s could have warrant, but you can't dps if you're dead =D

I've learnt it the hard way. I was getting critted for about 350 points of damage by the driders A LOT with just Heavy fort. Once I tried Brace for Impact, I never looked back. However, I still wish to slot somewhere in my equip the extra 40% to free up a Twist slot for Fey Form (to reach 300 Spell Power always).

I have an Air savant also. The magister DC twist is untouchable but I also like Endless Faith, reaching 4k SP and 30 SP with echoes is cool (free energy bursts!).

[knockcocker]

...(I run air savant mostly for the utility and moderate range of spells with no damage cap)

You're misinformed here too ;)

[jeremyt]

So, there are some pretty intense sorcererz on these forums so hopefully my viewpoint from just poking around quests and fiddling with stuff to get a good overall balance in epic elites (mind you my sorc build does have weaknesses, but in more of the current EE stuffs, the necro sorc is just going to level drain and kill things with a fraction of the SP/time of a nuking anything. Hell, 1 energy drain instantly and very nearly without fail kicks thousands of HP off an epic mob while drastically lowering saves.

I also feel the loss of pure DPS is extremely negligible, with overall DPS actually exceeding a draconic incarnation sorc. Magister has a 5 DC boost, innate. lowers casting times drasticly for some spells (wail/fod for me). passive +3 necro DC bump, 10% spell point cost reduction (!), very cheap defensive enhancements.

Also, 125% fort with abundant step and very solid self full healing (without quicken my WF sorc is still by far the most survivable/epic capable toon I have played personally). echoes is not an opt IMO, thats way to much juice (pots not chugged) to pass up.

Nobody else is recommending fatesinger sorc song stance. Its a very solid choice. stacking 7 spell power to elements, +1 cha, +25 SP, +1 AC and +2 to pois saves.

Fey form offers a very simple and solid offense/defense combo that fits alot of sorc gears well. stacking 15 universal covers recon = more survivability as well.

[Nerveya]

You're misinformed here too ;)

Edited: Resolved! Tongue in cheek, indeed!


So, there are some pretty intense sorcererz on these forums so hopefully my viewpoint from just poking around quests and fiddling with stuff to get a good overall balance in epic elites (mind you my sorc build does have weaknesses, but in more of the current EE stuffs, the necro sorc is just going to level drain and kill things with a fraction of the SP/time of a nuking anything. Hell, 1 energy drain instantly and very nearly without fail kicks thousands of HP off an epic mob while drastically lowering saves.

I also feel the loss of pure DPS is extremely negligible, with overall DPS actually exceeding a draconic incarnation sorc. Magister has a 5 DC boost, innate. lowers casting times drasticly for some spells (wail/fod for me). passive +3 necro DC bump, 10% spell point cost reduction (!), very cheap defensive enhancements.

Also, 125% fort with abundant step and very solid self full healing (without quicken my WF sorc is still by far the most survivable/epic capable toon I have played personally). echoes is not an opt IMO, thats way to much juice (pots not chugged) to pass up.

Nobody else is recommending fatesinger sorc song stance. Its a very solid choice. stacking 7 spell power to elements, +1 cha, +25 SP, +1 AC and +2 to pois saves.

Fey form offers a very simple and solid offense/defense combo that fits alot of sorc gears well. stacking 15 universal covers recon = more survivability as well.

First of all, don't be afraid to voice your opinion! Everyone should have a voice on the forums :O A lot of things are wholely subjective and personal user opinion anyway. Don't keep a voice silent just because you're afraid of someone ripping you apart :X

Necro sorc has some neat tricks, but the OP asked about twists to his Water Savant WF caster :O Fatesinger active is pretty good, and I stated it one of my above posts (the first? or the second... dunno) as a possibility. Granted, I pretty much glossed over it in the 'oh these are ok too' section of my post due to bias :( Ice savants don't rely very heavily on DCs for a lot of their damage, so any spellpower boosts benefit them quite a bit for their guaranteed damage spells (Polar ray, Frost Lance -half damage of course-, ice storm, DOTs). It only becomes a problem if you don't have the fate points to support your habits lol. It's 100% viable, though, just for the spellpower boost. The AC/+2 poison saves is kinda... negligible, though. Fey Form is incredible and if you're WF (passive fort boost), echoes could replace brace for impact easily. WF has a lot of benefits to sorc now... but why are they so ugly X__x

Also, I just scroll enervation :D Against mobs with no SR (which is sadly only around half of the 'new' MOTU content), it's a rediculous amount of damage even if the reduction to saves doesn't last very long :( Granted, I don't really use edrain anymore, even with it loaded. I don't have the spell pen to really use it against a lot of mobs unless they have no SR to begin with xD

[Tid12]

Also, I just scroll enervation :D Against mobs with no SR (which is sadly only around half of the 'new' MOTU content), it's a rediculous amount of damage even if the reduction to saves doesn't last very long :( Granted, I don't really use edrain anymore, even with it loaded. I don't have the spell pen to really use it against a lot of mobs unless they have no SR to begin with xD

Against orange named spiders Enervation is awesome. I unlocked the HP mastery of Spiders, the one orange in Trial by Fury EE has 50k hp. 1 enervation and it went to 29k HP, no kidding. Sometimes an enervation is MUCH more dps than a spell.

But yeah, with MotU, it's even harder for a sorc to spec into Necro/Ench with all that SR from drows around. I also don't like WF for EE. Their 3-4 points of DC behind are essential in the new endgame. They are more survivable perhaps but I'm doing just fine with my fleshy Air savant.

[Nerveya]

Against orange named spiders Enervation is awesome. I unlocked the HP mastery of Spiders, the one orange in Trial by Fury EE has 50k hp. 1 enervation and it went to 29k HP, no kidding. Sometimes an enervation is MUCH more dps than a spell.

But yeah, with MotU, it's even harder for a sorc to spec into Necro/Ench with all that SR from drows around. I also don't like WF for EE. Their 3-4 points of DC behind are essential in the new endgame. They are more survivable perhaps but I'm doing just fine with my fleshy Air savant.

Being a Drow Air Savant, I can say that spiders and archers are pretty much the most annoying mobs on the planet... coming in second behind wisps in the new expansion. But that's mostly an issue of poor spell choices :D I have yet to touch the MM (have other guildies grinding that out endlessly), and that's actually an insane margin of HP loss. I was, of course, just eyeballing from experience to establish the worth of scrolling enervation... but actual numbers are most helpful O_o

But yes, WF do have their bonuses... More survivability and the like. But DCs are everything to Air Savants lol. That and maybe I'm too superficial when it comes to WF :/ They're just so ugly -__-

[Kinerd]

Yes, ill stay at draconic incarnation.

Btw...can anyone confirm that precise casting and school specialist stack for a total of +6 DC?

Edit:
@ jeremit: i didnt go this way, because i think that others are better in necro. I would never be as good as a mage so i decidet to go pure dps.I think this is a mistake. Even the 45 spell power Fuzzy cites is going to be what, a 10% DPS increase, and even that only on things you aren't already overkilling? Whereas a +3 in Necro DC gives you a +15% chance to annihilate the target. Yes there are lots of SR types, but they aren't universal.

[muny21]

So, there are some pretty intense sorcererz on these forums so hopefully my viewpoint from just poking around quests and fiddling with stuff to get a good overall balance in epic elites (mind you my sorc build does have weaknesses, but in more of the current EE stuffs, the necro sorc is just going to level drain and kill things with a fraction of the SP/time of a nuking anything. Hell, 1 energy drain instantly and very nearly without fail kicks thousands of HP off an epic mob while drastically lowering saves.

That is if you can get by their spell pen which is usually around 45 to 50 in EE of the new content anyway. Not sure about the old stuff. Have not run it much.



I also feel the loss of pure DPS is extremely negligible, with overall DPS actually exceeding a draconic incarnation sorc. Magister has a 5 DC boost, innate. lowers casting times drasticly for some spells (wail/fod for me). passive +3 necro DC bump, 10% spell point cost reduction (!), very cheap defensive enhancements.

I have to completely disagree with you here. First, there is no way magister is coming close to the dps draconic can do. For one, the energy burst does normally around 3-4k without being held or any other circumstances granting extra damage and crits as high a 9k. At least that was my highest crit. Secondly, the dragon's breath also does around the same amount of damage as the burst and can hit multiple targets in front of you. Always makes me feel a bit like Velah :). Third, the magister 5 dc boost is not really innate, it only lasts for 20 sec and has a cooldown of four mins. So you can not really count that into your dcs. Most quest will be over before you get to use it twice. Finally, the draconic gets the innate caster levels that add to your caster levels increasing the damage you do. I do not know how you came up with your theory of magister exceeding draconic as far as dps goes but it might be time to test it again.

On topic:

I play a human air savant/necro specialist with maxed out draconic, love the energy burst, and my twists are as follows:

Slot 1: Magister spell pen (extremely important if you like to instant kill things. No matter what people may try to feed you, it is very difficult to pass spell pen of the new drow especially on EE. I have a 48 only because of my past lives and fail sometime on EE on a low roll.

Slot 2: Magister Necro +3 DC

Slot 3: Endless Faith (every casters favorite.)

Wow just realize you need some help in the feat department. I would drop all mental toughness feats and definitely the epic toughness. Or at the very least, drop Epic mental and Improved mental for Greater Focus Evo and Epic focus. That will help your chances at hitting bosses with your spells. I would also drop, this is personal flavor I guess, the Epic Toughness and mental toughness for Spell Focus Necro and Greater Necro. What good is sp if you cast three of four times before one spell lands? The dcs are more important than the extra 100 or so SP you are getting from mental toughness.

Look, this is just free advice from me to you. You take it or you throw it away. It don't matter.