Of splash and men.

[DeafeningWhisper]

So after reading how people feel on cleric splits I'm suddenly worried about my cleric Tr project.


The plan was cleric 13 monk 6 wiz 1 Helf monkcher AA, while I know this build will be able to deal decent ranged dps while having nice survivability, self healing and the ability to spot heal. I wonder how "PuG friendly" it will be, would you accept such a build? Or reject it on sight?

I want to know how unsightly this build would be, if the people at the forum who know their builds find this unpugable I'll switch to a more standard ranger 14 monk 6 build.

[Raithe]

First, I take anyone who joins my LFM, and anyone with one of the five to seven "bluebar" classes as their primary icon actually makes me breathe a small sigh of relief inside. Not because I necessarily believe their build is superior or good, but because it reflects an ability to distinguish class power discrepancies, an ability to take care of oneself, and/or an ability to handle aggro in more creative methods than just standing there beating it with a stick.

That said, I do not like running some of my multi-classes in PUGs simply due to the annoyance of having to explain myself to them. This would go doubly for anyone with a cleric icon as their primary class. I have plenty of characters, however, so having some characters that are PUGgable and some that aren't doesn't really give me a headache.

[captain1z]

Wouldnt worry about it, If the build works word will spread. The opposite is also true but dont lets player expectations dictate your playstyle. You play for you and thats it, if someone thinks you should be built to match thier standards........let em get a hireling.

On first glance a 13 cleric/ 6monk/ 1wiz looks weird, Id be curious to see what it does but thats just me.
Lets not all forget this game is meant to be fun.

[katz]

you'll be fine in groups.

you'll probably have trouble getting into raids...unless people know you, and/or there are already a primary healer(s) present and you are just bonus DPS/heals.

[DarkForte]

So after reading how people feel on cleric splits I'm suddenly worried about my cleric Tr project.


The plan was cleric 13 monk 6 wiz 1 Helf monkcher AA, while I know this build will be able to deal decent ranged dps while having nice survivability, self healing and the ability to spot heal. I wonder how "PuG friendly" it will be, would you accept such a build? Or reject it on sight?

I want to know how unsightly this build would be, if the people at the forum who know their builds find this unpugable I'll switch to a more standard ranger 14 monk 6 build.

I'd accept it so long as I weren't looking for a healer.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Humm getting into raids wont be much of an issue, already got my LitII ready and GS hp/Con Op and well there aren't any cleric gear to have in any of the raids anyway...

The main problem I see is the fact some clerics/FvS don't join parties when there is already one in it, something like "why would I join a *need helaer* when a mostly cleric/FvS is already there?".

The build is far from standard, it has plenty of goodies but the level progression will be somewhat painful and while I do plan to mostly duo with a pure monk I love PuGing a lot, the more I think about it the less interesting the clonkcher looks.

Tring is already a pain, bad lvl progression and possibly pug refusals would not help.

I already know that I can cap a 18/1/1 build easily (ftr 18, arty, ranger) so a 14 ranger 6 monk should be an easier sell, that plus more hps, more str and TWF feats. Then again on Khyber everyone took one look at my build and automatically new everything it could do, was very surprised and literally never refused.

[Qhualor]

i dont reject builds on sight. i reject people who are burdens one way or another. i give every build a chance, no matter how weird it looks. i would rather take a chance on a different build than take someone that i know has a good build, but always burdens the team in some way.

[Karavek]

i myself run a clonkcher and its great fun. He does fine in pugs but as with most clerics of any lvl spread most will give you grief saying things like if you wanted to fight be a fighter etc.

My main question is why a lvl of wizard? I did a 12/6/2 cleric monk fighter spread for extra feats etc. I just dont see what a lvl of wiz gives. clerics get blue, and you can qualify as a elf or helf AA without any need for wizard. I myself was convinced by the great writer of the path of enlightenment himself in a thread that the 13th lvl of cleric will give very little for a weapon orientated combat cleric be it melee or ranged.

While the extra feats, hp, and a few useful enhancement options that come from fighter can bring alot to your build. Now if you want to be really self sufficient even when mana is low you could do 7 monk for wholeness of body, which is pretty much unlimited mana free healing as long as u got abit of ki left over after a fight.

remember even with both increased rate of fire clicks you want to be ready to handle close quarters melee which monks are inherently awesome at. if your wisdom centric things like BB and stunning fist will be very handy. U can be an amazing undead killer between a good disruption bow and force/ghost touch ammo, and a set of handwraps from the mabar event for example.

just a few ramblings from a divine elven martial weapon master.

[Mikula]

I think the level of wizard is to qualify for the arcane archer. If you can I might suggest building a sorc then TR it into this so you could drop that level of wizard but it isn't that big a deal.

[Karavek]

I think the level of wizard is to qualify for the arcane archer. If you can I might suggest building a sorc then TR it into this so you could drop that level of wizard but it isn't that big a deal.

you dont have to take a lvl of wiz nor have past life sorc. I have a 12/6/2 cleric/monk/fighter Arcane Archer. there is nothing about an AA that requires you to be an arcane caster.

[DarkForte]

you dont have to take a lvl of wiz nor have past life sorc. I have a 12/6/2 cleric/monk/fighter Arcane Archer. there is nothing about an AA that requires you to be an arcane caster.

Probably needs it for the extra feat.

[Karavek]

Probably needs it for the extra feat.

I could see that, I jsut think my way nets more bonus feats that can be used for the many combat related feats he will need, and more 2ndary useful aspects like HP and certain enhancement lines.

in the end qualifying early for AA isnt to much a priority its not till you got all the way through many shot that using your bow is even a viable option. clonkchers still dont shoot their bow to early on. I think it was around lvl 9-12 that it started to feel practical enough, and even then when many shot is on cool down Stars is ok but still not always competitive with a monks furious fast melee if he has the right tools for the foe at hand. And easy to plan to get tools like crystal coves gloves, the robe from house c, and the hnadwraps for mabar help make sure any monk has some of the right tools.

[dougnugget]

IIRC, the wizard level gives you access to spell power enhancements, which means slightly stronger Blade Barriers, along with the bonus metamagic feat.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'd probably accept it just out of curiosity :)

[katz]

in my case, the level of wizard effectively frees up two feats for me. i wanted to have as much cleric as possible (17 levels, in this case). i did not want to have a deep splash... i wanted a healer AA. i know and accept that random pugs will be doubtful, but the people who know me will have no problem getting me into the raids i want to be in. throwing one level of wizard in there lets me take maximize as a wizard BONUS feat... AND use wizard energy of the scholar instead of the feat mental toughness to qualify for AA. let me have enough feats to fit everything i needed, everything i wanted, and one extra for whatever... as opposed to always being 1-2 feats short with any other combo i tried.

and yes... i put some love into the force line for better BBs. :D

[DeafeningWhisper]

Helf 13 cleric, 6 monk, 1 wizard

Stats:

Str: 10 (tome +2)
Dex: 16 (tome +3)
Con: 14 (tome +3)
Wis: 18 (6 lvl ups here +3 tome)
int: 8 (tome +2)
Cha: 8 (tome +3)


Level progression:
1. Monk, feats: Toughness, PBS, Helf dili: ranger
2. Monk, feat: Zen Archery
3. Cleric, feat: rapid shot
4-5. Cleric
6. Cleric, feat: Empowered Healing
7-8: Cleric
9: Cleric, feat: Precise Shot
10-11: Cleric
12: Cleric, feat: Max
13. Cleric
14. Monk
15. Monk, feat: ManyShot
16. Monk
17. Monk, feat: Dodge
18. Wiz, feat: Quicken, IC:ranged
19-20. Cleric
21. Feat: IPS
24. Feat: Precision

I had taken the Wiz lvl for a free feat and qualify for AA, I have a sorc but if he ever Trs it'll be into a sorc :)

[bigolbear]

my honest advice is that you will get rejected from many pugs. Many will also see that your class symbol says cleric and will expect you to be main healer - whithout any understanding of your build.

My 'advice' would be to change your build to include atleast 17 cleric lvls. For one thing it will be more pug freindly, for another I honestly beleive it will be a better build.

id go 17 cleric 2 monk 1(wiz or fighter).

[LafoMamone]

I have found that opinions of people frequenting these forums tend to be pretty different than of those who never come here. While I believe that people reading the forums are substantially more knowledgeable about this game than those who don't, you will not get proper feedback out of here if you intend to PUG, simply because we are in the minority relative to the total DDO population.

So, by looking over all the posts in this thread, it would seem like you are getting a seal of approval from most. However, don't be surprised if things look very different in practice. People have a lot preconceptions about certain classes/races/splits, and it is more than likely that you will be outright rejected, or even ridiculed, by many.

[Ausdoerrt]

Why cleric and not FvS? The Silver Flame bow bonuses would provide better synergy for your build.

And yeah, many pugs (especially the extra silly ones and the extra elitist ones) will hate you, but you should be able to solo most of the stuff with that build anyway.

[Raithe]

...it is more than likely that you will be outright rejected, or even ridiculed, by many.

If you create your LFMs, you can avoid any of that (it would be you that did the rejecting if someone got snarky about your build). Creating your own LFMs would not save you from having to explain what others might expect from you, particularly if you have a cleric symbol, however.

In regards to joining other groups, any group that will reject you simply based on build is one to avoid in the first place. I don't join discriminatory LFMs, regardless of whether I fit their discrimination. They are making it clear they are bad players that need someone else to actually provide the meat of their party.

[DeafeningWhisper]

@bigolbear: I would lose 10K stars if I did that which is the main focus of the build.

@LafoMamone: agreed, if I posted this here it's to gauge the build, if some of the posters here don't see what the build is about then I can bet most of the people in-game wont have a clue what it is.

@Ausdoerrt: thought about it, but ultimately decided against it. It delays spells even further and the aura with the amp I could get was more interesting to me then the extra dps from FvS enhancement and archon.

[LafoMamone]

If you create your LFMs, you can avoid any of that (it would be you that did the rejecting if someone got snarky about your build). Creating your own LFMs would not save you from having to explain what others might expect from you, particularly if you have a cleric symbol, however.

It works both ways. A lot of people would be reluctant to join groups led by someone who is using a non-recognizable build. People are quick to conclude that it's "a fresh-off-the-boat" noob who doesn't know what he is doing.


In regards to joining other groups, any group that will reject you simply based on build is one to avoid in the first place. I don't join discriminatory LFMs, regardless of whether I fit their discrimination. They are making it clear they are bad players that need someone else to actually provide the meat of their party.

This is great in theory, but it does leave you with the problem of levelling. If you have no guildies/friends to help you out, and you find that you cannot effectively solo quests at your level, you will find levelling incredibly difficult and not at all fun. You may think that the people rejecting you are the ones you may not want to group with in the first place, but the fact remains that you still need people, almost any people, to get things done.

[Ungood]

Great question.

I think the question you need to ask when you wonder about how much healing you can do, is would you take a cleric of X level (Where X is the Number of Cleric levels you took in your build) to heal Y Quest (With Y being the Quest you are on)

So, say you have 13 levels of cleric, since the other levels do not contribute to your ability to heal and just augment your own survival, so, the question is, could a 13th level cleric effectively heal (that) quest.

Or put another way, "Would you trust a 13th level cleric to heal the quest you are on?"

Keeping that in mind when you ask to join, in many cases you might need to explain to others that you are not the healer, or that you feel you can be the healer. That is of course your call to make, but something you will need to put out in the forefront when you are dealing with other players, especially those that do not already know you.

Or such is my humble way of looking at it.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Great question.

I think the question you need to ask when you wonder about how much healing you can do, is would you take a cleric of X level (Where X is the Number of Cleric levels you took in your build) to heal Y Quest (With Y being the Quest you are on)

So, say you have 13 levels of cleric, since the other levels do not contribute to your ability to heal and just augment your own survival, so, the question is, could a 13th level cleric effectively heal (that) quest.

Or put another way, "Would you trust a 13th level cleric to heal the quest you are on?"

Keeping that in mind when you ask to join, in many cases you might need to explain to others that you are not the healer, or that you feel you can be the healer. That is of course your call to make, but something you will need to put out in the forefront when you are dealing with other players, especially those that do not already know you.

Or such is my humble way of looking at it.

This is exactly what I wonder myself, up to lvl 13 I'm basically a 11 cleric 2 monk clonk, but after I'm the bastard child of a gimp and a noob until lvl 18 where I finally get AA and 10K... Worse, after that wiz lvl is not gonna look all that good.

The more I think about it the worse it looks.

[Raithe]

It works both ways. A lot of people would be reluctant to join groups led by someone who is using a non-recognizable build. People are quick to conclude that it's "a fresh-off-the-boat" noob who doesn't know what he is doing.


I guess it's make Raithe laugh day in the forums. Whoever these "people" are, they are the ones who usually get quietly ostracized (without overt rejection) due to their inferior gameplay and lack of teamwork comprehension. All the people that I normally play with wouldn't care about build in the slightest. They are usually quite confident that a few of us could carry the rest of the group through hell or high water, without much fuss, if it actually came to that.

In any case, you are correct, it works both ways. Having those people NOT join my LFM is a blessing, so maybe I should start using some of my more unrecognizable "builds" to start my LFMs. I can always switch out later, if needed.



This is great in theory, but it does leave you with the problem of levelling. If you have no guildies/friends to help you out, and you find that you cannot effectively solo quests at your level, you will find levelling incredibly difficult and not at all fun.

Hmmm. I'm not sure we are playing the same game in any way, shape, or form. Leveling is of absolutely no concern to me, and seems to happen all to quick without my obsession with it. Usually if I decide to run a quest, its for fun and no other reason, and honestly I find it easier to maintain that casual entertaining atmosphere if I keep my group sizes small (not necessarily solo, though).

[JasonJi72]

A guildie of mine has a similar build, except that it is melee, and he loves it. He also provides good healing too.

I think cleric is a better choice for these type of builds because of radiant servant. You are not a healer, you are a healing battery dps character.

Currently, I am working on getting ranger/monk/fighter/paladin/rogue past lives for my eventual archer. I figure with all that grinding, I should be able to make whatever wierd build I want. :) I am actually contemplating using druid with the feral frenzy, or whatever it is called, enhancement. You know, the speed boost one. Of course, if I do that, I would probably drop 10k stars, use a bow during manyshot, fight in wolf form, and keep dot spells up. I haven't quite decided what I want to make my final build into, I just know I want some past lives to amp it up.

This is a game. Play for fun!

Cya around the playground. :)

[LafoMamone]

I guess it's make Raithe laugh day in the forums. Whoever these "people" are, they are the ones who usually get quietly ostracized (without overt rejection) due to their inferior gameplay and lack of teamwork comprehension. All the people that I normally play with wouldn't care about build in the slightest. They are usually quite confident that a few of us could carry the rest of the group through hell or high water, without much fuss, if it actually came to that.

In any case, you are correct, it works both ways. Having those people NOT join my LFM is a blessing, so maybe I should start using some of my more unrecognizable "builds" to start my LFMs. I can always switch out later, if needed.


Hmmm. I'm not sure we are playing the same game in any way, shape, or form. Leveling is of absolutely no concern to me, and seems to happen all to quick without my obsession with it. Usually if I decide to run a quest, its for fun and no other reason, and honestly I find it easier to maintain that casual entertaining atmosphere if I keep my group sizes small (not necessarily solo, though).

Have you even read what the OP is asking for? This is not about you, the people you "normally play with" or how "levelling is of absolutely no concern" to you, oh great badass. He was asking whether his build would be accepted into pugs. Here it is, one more time, in bold:


So after reading how people feel on cleric splits I'm suddenly worried about my cleric Tr project.


The plan was cleric 13 monk 6 wiz 1 Helf monkcher AA, while I know this build will be able to deal decent ranged dps while having nice survivability, self healing and the ability to spot heal. I wonder how "PuG friendly" it will be, would you accept such a build? Or reject it on sight?

I want to know how unsightly this build would be, if the people at the forum who know their builds find this unpugable I'll switch to a more standard ranger 14 monk 6 build.

If levelling was of no concern and/or he had "people he normally plays with", he would have hardly taken the time to ask if his build is PuG friendly.

I guess it could be "make Raithe laugh" day (just for you, baby ;) ), but it seems more likely that it's "Raithe skimmed and likes to brag" day.

[Ungood]

This is exactly what I wonder myself, up to lvl 13 I'm basically a 11 cleric 2 monk clonk, but after I'm the bastard child of a gimp and a noob until lvl 18 where I finally get AA and 10K... Worse, after that wiz lvl is not gonna look all that good.

The more I think about it the worse it looks.

It depends on what you plan to do, if you are just leveling, no big. Have fun with it, to be honest, I can heal my melee for around 60 - 80 (Typical) with CLW spells, with a Hybrid Fighter/Cleric, and given I have CMW, and CSW that I can spam if things go bad, I can heal myself quite well.

So if you were just going for self healing, and made that the forefront of what you were (and most people would assume such) then you come across a very survival based build, which is normally welcome in farm runs and normal questing, or as the "whatever" in an easy raid.

However, and make no mistake about this, as long as you have that cleric icon, people will expect you to heal, because after all, only the Group Leader knows your split, no one else does, so, if you have that cleric icon, you need to be honest and upfront about where you stand and what your abilities and limits are.

[Raithe]

Have you even read what the OP is asking for? This is not about you, the people you "normally play with" or how "levelling is of absolutely no concern" to you, oh great badass. He was asking whether his build would be accepted into pugs. Here it is, one more time, in bold:


Ya I read the OP and responded. You responded to my post, and I responded to yours. It's a chain, and my latest reply doesn't need to address the OP directly. I made sure it addresses the situation indirectly, however.

Your belief that "most PUGs" won't accept particular builds is based on YOUR particular playstyle and position in the game. You were asserting your authority on the situation, which I find to be laughable. Your observations come from your little corner of the world, and do not apply to me. Whether they apply to the OP is up to him to decide, and I don't really care if they do. The point remains that there exist segments of the game where his build is of no concern. At all.



I guess it could be "make Raithe laugh" day (just for you, baby ;) ), but it seems more likely that it's "Raithe skimmed and likes to brag" day.

Wow, look in the mirror dude. Read your post. You clearly were asserting your own "expertise" on the situation - bragging in its most malevolent form. You are wrong, and my belief that you are wrong is what is attacking your ego, it has nothing to do with anything I said about my own game (if you actually read my post, I gave credit to the people I play with, not myself).

The fact that "LafoMamone fails to comprehend and likes to exert his self-importance day" falls on "make Raithe laugh" day is not entirely coincidental.

[Enoach]

You are right in that over 50% of the population probably won't understand your build at a glance. This is because this part of the population doesn't spend time analyzing what works, how can I achieve this without having to sacrifice much of that.

In the years DDO has been around there has always been players that have experimented (some successfully and others not so). And as new classes got added and more levels available to work with more of these types of builds emerged.

In my opinion anyone that looks down on any build, when they themselves have not done any research on the synergy are the ones that miss out the most.

So yes, you will run into those who will deny you on your class split alone... And also yes you will still be able to find groups that will take you for what your build is, and depending on your skill with the build you may even impress them.

Build your character how you like, learn its limits and become skilled with it and most of all have fun.

[deahamlet]

I ran something similar, almost at 20 now. I solo-Ed mostly because I didn't want anything with divine icon in pugs (for my own personal reasons after a FvS life). Joining some uber elites for quick farming mostly to keep them company was super painful. I tend to only group if I feel my toon is strong enough to keep up with the big boys. The build was not that.

WOWO plays AA/10k builds and I based mine off of his. However he has people he plays with, some nice gear and even he recommended repeater for the beginnings.
It doesn't sound like WOWO has any problems, but people know him and it sounds like he runs with people who wouldn't need a babysitter anyway.

If you must pug, if your personality compels you to pug with strangers... My advice is do not run this build. It is not good for that. People will either not get it or simply expect you to just be another healer.

I lucked out and my first shroud on this toon was lead by some people who immediately recognized what it was and assumed I was just another ranged toon. Of course I made sure to join after they had two divines.
It is a lot trickier ith a nonstandard build. Great experienced players WILL realize what you are, but I'm still not convinced this build can keep up with Zerging elites (maybe after a couple of lives getting used to the balancing act as you level up... I used wraps even in Amrath which saddened me). Random pugs will either laugh, comment, not accept you or assume you're a healer. You would have to have very thick skin and patience. I have neither.

Anything with a divine icon whose main role by a huge mile is not healing (deep splashes) is very tricky to navigate in pugs.

Consider a different AA/10k class split that has no divine class.

Good luck to you.

[DarkForte]

All the people that I normally play with wouldn't care about build in the slightest. They are usually quite confident that a few of us could carry the rest of the group through hell or high water, without much fuss, if it actually came to that.

Talking about your awesome static/channel/friendlist/guild groups that don't need/want to pug is irrelevant to a discussion about pug-friendliness of 10k stars divines. Me and many of my guildies/friends wouldn't mind a wacky build from someone that is not a total idiot. It is, however TOTALLY NOTWITHSTANDING to this discussion.


Your belief that "most PUGs" won't accept particular builds is based on YOUR particular playstyle and position in the game. You were asserting your authority on the situation, which I find to be laughable. Your observations come from your little corner of the world, and do not apply to me. Whether they apply to the OP is up to him to decide, and I don't really care if they do. The point remains that there exist segments of the game where his build is of no concern. At all.

And how is your judgement that it is completely laughable any better than his that it is relevant, considering both of you are speaking from experience? You can dismiss wrong facts, but the truth here is that Nezrul, just as most people in the thread, is speaking from experience. Dismissing that based on your huge ego makes you the laughable one.

[Tenlaar]

I wouldn't think twice about accepting the build, and would actually love to see how it plays. With empowered/maximized bursts and aura, heal, and mass cure moderate it should be a more than sufficient secondary healer, and possibly only healer on easier quests or in those lucky steamrolling groups.

Personal opinion: If I could make a suggestion though, unless there is a real good reason not to I would move the 12th cleric level to level 14 to have the aura instead of waiting until 19 to get it. If it were my character I would probably take the 13th cleric level as well to have mass prot/resist, mass cure serious and resurrection available. I think that the group leaders who aren't interested in having unique builds come along would be more likely to take you with those available earlier than 10k stars.

[Khatzhas]

While many of the population might not understand the build, a significant chunk of that group are made up of the people who won't even check up on it. Unless they specifically need a trapper/healer, most groups will accept anyone who applies. Clerics with Monk levels aren't that rare, nor is the odd arcane caster level just for the spell power enhancement.
As a TR, you'll probably be more experienced and have gear ready that will allow you to perform better than your equivalent level in cleric compared to a new player. You'll have access to Heal, although it won't land for quite so much, and you might have to use more scrolls and wands than a full class, but you can probably go as the healer into quests until quite high level.
Regarding your build, personally, I'd pick up Maximise before or just after you hit cleric 6 for the boost to your radiant burst. I think that that will be worth delaying your shooty feats for.

[susiedupfer]

As the primary healer without a second thought. I probably would not allow you into raids unless I had run with you before, or a friend put in a good word for you.

Now, let me explain why:

I do not ever reject builds out of hand. BUT, I have learned through much experience to fear AA's unless I know they are pro(or I can see through myddo, when it is working, that they have enough past lives to have a clue). Newbies running AA's=aggro grabbing, kiting, dying multiple times, and eventually wiping out all my sp party members. Pros running AA's=off-tanking, super high, super fast DPS that can save me a ton of SP simply by their uberness party members. So, that is the big issue, knowing if you are pro or not.

How to solve this? You post the LFM's. You run the quests. Do lots of Gianthold or Vale flagging postings. I, and others, will almost always join those, as we need to get flagged. And, speaking from a healer perspective, you are one less person I have to worry about healing with all those cleric levels. Build your reputation that way. After I have run with you once, and know you are no newbie, I will add you to my friends list as: "Pro-Do not fear the AA".

[DeafeningWhisper]

Now I'm seeing the clonkcher build as a challenge, last time that happened I built a Nun with a Gun (arty 2 cleric 18) which is sitting at lvl 24 with epic lvl trapping skills :)

I do have some experience with AA, I got a capped bardcher Tr and a Kensai AA, the Kensai doesn't have evasion but enough hps to stand next to a melee as to avoid kiting and the bardcher just twf with improved paralyzers if anything makes it to melee range after survived the arrows. Heck I have an arty and the aforementioned Nun with a Gun, ranged combat is not new to me.

I may need to reconsider the lvling progress, that I'll look into, If I can find an order that doesn't make me feel facepalm I think I'll give it a try.

[LafoMamone]

Ya I read the OP and responded. You responded to my post, and I responded to yours. It's a chain, and my latest reply doesn't need to address the OP directly. I made sure it addresses the situation indirectly, however.

Your belief that "most PUGs" won't accept particular builds is based on YOUR particular playstyle and position in the game. You were asserting your authority on the situation, which I find to be laughable. Your observations come from your little corner of the world, and do not apply to me. Whether they apply to the OP is up to him to decide, and I don't really care if they do. The point remains that there exist segments of the game where his build is of no concern. At all.

Apparently they do apply to him at least to some degree, otherwise he wouldn't have reservations. This thread wouldn't exist. I partially confirmed that reservation due to the current state of PuGs on my server, Sarlona.

What really applies to you or doesn't turned out to be completely irrelevant to what the OP was asking, because you apparently don't pug, levelling is a joke to you and you have a bunch of people you normally run with. You haven't made a single statement regarding the PuG scene on your server. There is nothing substantial you have contributed to this thread other than flaunt your own levelling skills.


Wow, look in the mirror dude. Read your post. You clearly were asserting your own "expertise" on the situation - bragging in its most malevolent form. You are wrong, and my belief that you are wrong is what is attacking your ego, it has nothing to do with anything I said about my own game (if you actually read my post, I gave credit to the people I play with, not myself).

The fact that "LafoMamone fails to comprehend and likes to exert his self-importance day" falls on "make Raithe laugh" day is not entirely coincidental.

Oh no worries, my ego doesn't bruise that easily. I have had to deal with much more abrasive and childish people on my server, and I must admit that I am guilty of finding such exchanges amusing and entertaining, much as I do find ours now. However, we were having a civil discussion until these two gold nuggets came along:


I guess it's make Raithe laugh day in the forums.


Hmmm. I'm not sure we are playing the same game in any way, shape, or form. Leveling is of absolutely no concern to me, and seems to happen all to quick without my obsession with it

This absurdity was enough to make me believe that you were neither interested in helping the OP, nor discussing/exchanging ideas with fellow forumites in a polite manner. You came to assert your dominance and to tell others that they are silly for looking to PuGs for levelling, when such a clear and shining example of DDO strength and independence, such as yourself, exists.

Suffice it to say, it was time to stop taking you seriously. Now I'm just having fun. It's "Having Fun With Raithe" day. :)

[Theolin]

Having a 13/6/1 cleric build. I love mine and it is easily very very surivable. The problem I ran into was joining raids, regular quests were easy everyone will take anyone that can heal, raids are a different story. What I found useful is
1 be realistic of what you can do with your toon
2 communicate it as soon as possible to everyone
3 exceede exptations (if anything undersell your toon)
4 enjoy

As others have said there are accepting and non accepting leaders/parties, don't worry bout the second kind


Oh and advice on level order, get BB & heal asap they are a game changer for me on this type of build

[deahamlet]

As the primary healer without a second thought. I probably would not allow you into raids unless I had run with you before, or a friend put in a good word for you.

Now, let me explain why:

I do not ever reject builds out of hand. BUT, I have learned through much experience to fear AA's unless I know they are pro(or I can see through myddo, when it is working, that they have enough past lives to have a clue). Newbies running AA's=aggro grabbing, kiting, dying multiple times, and eventually wiping out all my sp party members. Pros running AA's=off-tanking, super high, super fast DPS that can save me a ton of SP simply by their uberness party members. So, that is the big issue, knowing if you are pro or not.

How to solve this? You post the LFM's. You run the quests. Do lots of Gianthold or Vale flagging postings. I, and others, will almost always join those, as we need to get flagged. And, speaking from a healer perspective, you are one less person I have to worry about healing with all those cleric levels. Build your reputation that way. After I have run with you once, and know you are no newbie, I will add you to my friends list as: "Pro-Do not fear the AA".

A cleric based AA/10K actually has no issues with aggro. Why? Because they can handle it. Better healing and some AOE that actually benefits from kiting techniques an AA must employ. Now boss and pulling aggro from boss... that CAN be a problem. However, it is less compared to a silly melee going crazy and not swapping gear. At least the cleric splash can self-heal while blocking waiting for tank to get the boss again and then know that the tank cannot handle manyshot or 10k and proceed accordingly.
Unless you get annoyed by FvS/clerics/arti kiting trash through BBs in raids, I do not see the difference between the risk of a melee not taking their threat gear or holding off when they attack and the risk of an AA/10k doing the same. I also think that if you're afraid of AAs messing with aggro, unknown sorcerers must terrify the heck out of you. Even gimp wizards that do not know what they are doing can rip aggro if they're abusing all three dots they have and spamming their entire SP bar at the boss.

Players are players. I do not get the fear of AA/10k.

[bigolbear]

@bigolbear: I would lose 10K stars if I did that which is the main focus of the build.

@LafoMamone: agreed, if I posted this here it's to gauge the build, if some of the posters here don't see what the build is about then I can bet most of the people in-game wont have a clue what it is.

@Ausdoerrt: thought about it, but ultimately decided against it. It delays spells even further and the aura with the amp I could get was more interesting to me then the extra dps from FvS enhancement and archon.

Ok man thats a fine and viable answer in my opinion, i didnt realise 6+ monk was so important. In which case as others have said its just a matter of making your own pugs. When applying to other be sure to tell them your an archer speced character - and can provide backup heals.

Ive run some crazy ass battle clerics my self over the years - one in particular springs to mind. His name is garrel and when the cap was 14 this guy was technicaly better at fighting than a fighter.(1 point more to hit, same damage good will save and self buffs) His class symbol showed cleric tho and you can bet your bottom dollar that many people only looked that far.

For running with guildies and freinds these kind of builds are excelent, for the pug scene expect a lot of greif - its not you, its them - but none the less expect issues.

I do still maintain the question - which is better... 10k stars? or 8th and 9th lvl spells. Even if not heal focused your giving up implosion for example, and 3d6 on your blade barrier is bad too - for an archer divine that blade barrier is awesome, its just all that extra pain they have to suffer before they get to you.

Whatever you decide op - have fun with your build.

and regarding pugs, i will quote my father:
"nill iligitum carberundum" (dont let the bastards grind you down).

[LordMond63]

First, bear in mind that, according to statistics, something less than 5% (I suspect far less) of a game's player base ever comes to the Forums to either read or participate in them. Chances are that you're not going to reach the folks you need to convince by posting here. That's not meant to dissuade you from your build, but merely to explain why you might run into some rejection in-game.

I have a Clonk that will eventually be CLR 12/MNK 8 or CLR 12/MNK 6/FTR 2 (currently CLR 12/MNK 3). I would not consider myself to be capable of being primary healer for tougher quests on Elite, but, for pretty much all other applications, I can get the job done. Soloing is easy-peasy, as one might expect. If a group has a dedicated healer, I can back them up as well as adding some pretty significant dps, either via melee or spells, so I don't think I'm a waste of a slot even now.

Yet I do run into some problems. There simply are not enough people willing to play dedicated healers out there. If your class icon shows Cleric (or FvS), heal-botting is what is probably going to be expected of you by pug leaders. It's not much of an issue if you run with guildies or people you know. Based on that experience, I would say go ahead with the experiment if you're in a guild OR can be reasonably sure that you'll most often run with people who know you.