Lit 2>Celestia?

[Rogann]

Which would win dps wise? Assuming no dr or elemental resistances. Im also talking boss beats. Don't care about trash. Can I actually drop khopesh prof for toughness? They will go on a lv 25 pure str rogue.

I really don't want to waste another 35$ to farm out a 40th(or even 60th) for a second Celestia if it improves nothing.

NOTE: Im also wearing 'Epic redscale' so please factor in flaming burst. Thanks in advance!

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j376/rogann1/Celestia08282012_1303.png

OR

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j376/rogann1/Lit208282012_1303.png

Assume both have force dmg.

[Therigar]

It depends on how often the damages proc.

Math geeks will be able to tell you the "on average" numbers (which you could also work out for yourself). And, of course, resistances and immunities will also figure into the answer.

Personally, I'm disappointed in my Lit II. I'm generally of the opinion that it is really only worthwhile on repeating crossbows. But, that is a different thread.... ;)

[oweieie]

If you have a wizard in the party, probably Celestia since it's guaranteed to proc the second they cast a web spell.

[Ancient]

Does it get glancing blows? (I ask because of the description).

[Rogann]

Let me test it and put up SS's. I think it procs twice on a single it.

[Nibor]

You'd need to supply your Str bonus for starters, since they have different crit profiles.
In practice, the added damage from blindness is hard to measure, what with all the other ways of enabling sneak attack, and of course Red and Purple nameds are generally immune so perhaps you don't care.

[Rogann]

Does it get glancing blows? (I ask because of the description).

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j376/rogann1/Lit2prov1swing.png

NOTE: The flaming burst from redscale only procs once on a single swing with 1 weapon equipped. It does this every single time.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j376/rogann1/Celestiaproc1swing.png

NOTE: The flaming burst(and even supreme good) from redscale procs twice on a single swing with 1 weapon equipped. It does this every single time.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j376/rogann1/Lit2s.png

NOTE: With two lit 2's equipped. Doing 1 swing with an off-hand proc flaming burst(from redscale) procs once for each weapon.


Does this mean that with 2 Celestia's equipped and swinging once. Flaming burst(from redscale) will proc 4 times a swing O_o.(with an off-hand proc)

[Ausdoerrt]

Does this mean that with 2 Celestia's equipped and swinging once. Flaming burst(from redscale) will proc 4 times a swing O_o.(with an off-hand proc)

Test it with any other weapon in the off-hand. My guess is, the "second" proc is actually the glancing blow, and you won't get that with TWF.

[Rogann]

Test it with any other weapon in the off-hand. My guess is, the "second" proc is actually the glancing blow, and you won't get that with TWF.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j376/rogann1/Lamesauce.png

You are correct. Kinda weird the Celestia has a glancing blow but the lit 2 doesn't.

[Rogann]

I got greater sunburst to proc twice. I got the following dmg:

(Combat): You hit Training Dummy for 251 points of light damage.

(Combat): You hit Training Dummy for 267 points of light damage.

[Rogann]

You'd need to supply your Str bonus for starters, since they have different crit profiles.
In practice, the added damage from blindness is hard to measure, what with all the other ways of enabling sneak attack, and of course Red and Purple nameds are generally immune so perhaps you don't care.

It says my str mod on the weapons. I have 42 str unbuffed(16). I also dont care about blind on trash mobs. Only boss beats.

[Emili]

Outside the procs the base damage favours Celestia until you garner a damage mod of +34 on per twenty attacks...

At mod +33 Celestia holds +2 more damage ... at +34 mod however the damage from the x3 of the khopesh's 1.5[4.5] + mod overcomes the x2 2.5[5.5] + mod of Celestia and averages +2 per swing in favour of the khopesh and grows by ratio of +4 per mod from that point on.

The question comes down to additional procs then the static on crit ones can be compared ... but GS lit II vs Greater Sunburst may only be answered when certain proc rates are actually known. I may go out on a limb here... but I swear the Lightning Strike proc rates on my ml 8 GS lit II are less than the Lightning Strike proc rate on my triple infused alchemy in practice, although they should not be.

... Anyway the question I may ask now be this... what class/character/build? The Str Rogue? Oh... and what is the mob we're beating up?

[Havok.cry]

If a favored soul is present you can vastly increase celestia's damage.

[Rogann]

The question comes down to additional procs then the static on crit ones can be compared ... but GS lit II vs Greater Sunburst may only be answered when certain proc rates are actually known.

This is true. But you'd assume that if sunburst only does 250-270 dmg the proc rate would be higher then lightning strike. Then again it's an AOE ability and also blinds so perhaps its a very low chance.


... Anyway the question I may ask now be this... what class/character/build? The Str Rogue? Oh... and what is the mob we're beating up?


Average max geared str rogue build. Links in sig would give you everything about the build. Mob doesn't matter. I just want to see what has the highest dps on a 'random boss with no dr/resistances'.

[destiny4405]

well, if you care only about bosses, then don't farm another one. since lob, bosses tend to have light res which in lob's case goes up to 100 on EE.

you'll prolly do more damage with toothpick to him, then with celestia.

[shadereaper33]

You are correct. Kinda weird the Celestia has a glancing blow but the lit 2 doesn't.

Celestia is technically a bastard sword, hence the glancing blows. The lit2 is a khopesh, which does not get glancing blows.

[srxmk2]

If you have monk ninja spy I, twist a dance of flower, then celestia has a base damage of 4.0(5.5), win

[Qezuzu]

Celestia gets glancing blows because it's a Bastard Sword (but counts as a short sword for proficiency). I forgot if they get glancing blows if you're using two. I don't think so.

Until we know more about Greater Sunburst, it would be hard to determine which is better... however, Celestia does light damage, it isn't physical damage. Iirc it will bypass ALL dr, including mobs like Elementals.

...and if the boss has multiple FvS Shield of Condemnation procs, Celestia will outperform every other weapon by so much it isn't even funny. Maybe not as much for a Rogue, because of the lower base damage. I think sirgog showed in a thread that Celestia doesn't change sneak attack damage to light damage, but it wasn't quite conclusive.

If you could get a FvS to help you test if Shield of Condemnation will increase your SA with Celestia, that would be cool. It's quite an underestimated weapon.


well, if you care only about bosses, then don't farm another one. since lob, bosses tend to have light res which in lob's case goes up to 100 on EE.

you'll prolly do more damage with toothpick to him, then with celestia.

iirc LoB is the only boss that has light resistance.

Lolth didn't seem to have resistances of any kind.

[Shunlee123]

Just one question outside the topic. Celestia deals light damage (instead of the usual slash/pierce/bludgeon type damage). So does a mob with a DR against specific damage type, say slash for zombie, pierce for rakshasa, etc get reduced damage from Celestia or full damage from Ceslestia so long as the mob does not have DR of light?

[J1NG]

srxmk2,

Technically, when it all works:

2.5 Base
0.5 Improved Martial Arts (Requires Ninja Spy)
1.5 Dance of Flowers
0.5 Fire Stance (Dancing with Flames)

Gives 5.0(1d10)

Plus an additional +1.0 from a Deadly Weapons, and you'll be looking at a 6.0(1d10) Celestia.

Let's see... that's 6(5.5) +7, giving an average damage of 40 no? Before any Strength modifier is included. So normally we're looking at 50 damage per swing so long as it hits. Almost Divine Punishment level of damage.

J1NG

[J1NG]

Just one question outside the topic. Celestia deals light damage (instead of the usual slash/pierce/bludgeon type damage). So does a mob with a DR against specific damage type, say slash for zombie, pierce for rakshasa, etc get reduced damage from Celestia or full damage from Ceslestia so long as the mob does not have DR of light?

The damage is only reduced from having Light Resistance, and as the post above you states, very few mobs or bosses have that resistance.

J1NG

[Rogann]

Just realized is did light dmg instead of physical dmg. Thats kinda cool lmao

[Shunlee123]

Thanks. So Celestia is a near-perfect DR breaker except against mobs with light resistance?

[J1NG]

Thanks. So Celestia is a near-perfect DR breaker except against mobs with light resistance?

Pretty much, yes. :)

J1NG

[Shunlee123]

Pretty much, yes. :)

J1NG

That's great. Probably Rogann should start using it.

But does Rogann's toon has improved critical -piercing? After all, Celestia is treated as a short sword.

[srxmk2]

srxmk2,

Technically, when it all works:

2.5 Base
0.5 Improved Martial Arts (Requires Ninja Spy)
1.5 Dance of Flowers
0.5 Fire Stance (Dancing with Flames)

Gives 5.0(1d10)

Plus an additional +1.0 from a Deadly Weapons, and you'll be looking at a 6.0(1d10) Celestia.

Let's see... that's 6(5.5) +7, giving an average damage of 40 no? Before any Strength modifier is included. So normally we're looking at 50 damage per swing so long as it hits. Almost Divine Punishment level of damage.

J1NG

Hey J1NG, actually dancing with flames 3 gives 0.75W, also improved power attack gives another 0.5W, so the maximum base damage is 5.75(d10). My monk with 46str on wind stance can hit for average 70+ per swing.

More interestingly, celestia's main attack ignores light resistance of mobs (tested on clay golem) but its glancing blow does not, kinda weird

[kraaal]

Lob also has 100 elemental resistance, so it's probably a wash. Lailat is immune to electrical damage ...so I'd say as a boss beater celestia is better plus you have synergy with fvs aura for more damage. You won't get glancing blows if you dual wield it or at least I never get glancing blows when I dual wield two bs's.

[Book_O_Dragons]

A virtual +1 to you. (My +1's don't do anything. Very sad. So you get information instead.)

Lightning Strike on weapons is 1.5% application probability, and is indeed 20d20+400 electrical damage.

This makes lightning strike 9.15 damage each hit.