Please add insightful +3 intelligence/charisma docent in the next update

[danlan]

As title suggests, please add insightful +3 intelligence/charisma docent in the next update, for the sake of wf casters.

U15 already adds an insightful +3 wisdom docent which I doube anyone would use, we really why not just add a docent version of spidersilk robe?

[Ranncore]

Why would there be any docents in Faerun?
If your answer is, "for the players," then I ask, "Why do the Clerics of Aumantor hand out shortswords?"

[Cinos]

It's not really needed with the +8 Cha Stone Heart, the planar focus trinkets and the abundance of stuff with +2 insightful or +1 exceptional

You have to gear a bit differently but you're not worse off than fleshies.

[SoloPhalanx]

It's not really needed with the +8 Cha Stone Heart, the planar focus trinkets and the abundance of stuff with +2 insightful or +1 exceptional

You have to gear a bit differently but you're not worse off than fleshies.

you're wrong. litany is #1 trinket. which means you only have 1 place to slot +3 insight, which is body.

+8 int/cha can come from lootgen, +3 insight can't. WF are below fleshies by 1 point from gear, leading to a total of 3 behind from drow, and 2 behind from human. that's a possible 2 DC below drow, very much significant

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383692

[akiraproject24]

you're wrong. litany is #1 trinket. which means you only have 1 place to slot +3 insight, which is body.

+8 int/cha can come from lootgen, +3 insight can't. WF are below fleshies by 1 point from gear, leading to a total of 3 behind from drow, and 2 behind from human. that's a possible 2 DC below drow, very much significant

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383692

yes but as a Warforge you are immune to disease and poison.....oh wait nevermind they broke that ....I support your statement

[Kabaon]

Wait, wait. Your saying LITANY is the number one trinket... because it adds +1 to all stats? really? I don't care that it stacks because it's profane, but that sounds REALLY junky for a caster. I guess I'll just keep my more beneficial trinkets. Bauble, Planar Focus +8 int (I think that's what I got, might be +3 insightful int) etc.

At least that's more beneficial than the +1 to str, dex, and wis, cha that I don't need or want lol.

[Cinos]

Well, it's your own fault for wanting to use Litany, you're gimping yourself. It's really not worth a permanent slot anymore, only as a switch-in for the clickie.

Additionally, 2 DC isn't a big deal for a sorcerer.

[Kabaon]

Exactly, sorcs basically go into a quest, blow stuff up, and the mobs go "please sir, can I have another" from the damage, until they die lol.

DC's are nice, but not required.

[akiraproject24]

I feel the litany is an ideal caster trinket encompassing wiz and sorc...its easier to tell yourself its not due to the grind associated with it however. Its a source of stacking DC type stat and hp stat lets not forget the con. For example if you truly want to max your int on say your wizzy you would go with litany, random gen int +8 goggles and insightful int spidersilk. Then you would tome and twist and feat your way to top of the foodchain DC wise. So while some dont want to go thru the grind for it..thats ok. But to say its not the ideal ...imo is incorrect.

[Cinos]

I feel the litany is an ideal caster trinket encompassing wiz and sorc...its easier to tell yourself its not due to the grind associated with it however. Its a source of stacking DC type stat and hp stat lets not forget the con. For example if you truly want to max your int on say your wizzy you would go with litany, random gen int +8 goggles and insightful int spidersilk. Then you would tome and twist and feat your way to top of the foodchain DC wise. So while some dont want to go thru the grind for it..thats ok. But to say its not the ideal ...imo is incorrect.

If anything it sounds you're desperately trying to justify the grind you did for it. It's very arguable if it's the best, especially for sorcerers who don't benefit a whole lot from DC, much less the single point of it that Litany would provide. There are several things I'd rather slot as a sorcerer, including Insightful Con +3, Insightful Cha +3 as a Warforged, and Epic Jerky if I don't have Greater/Superior False Life slotted elsewhere.

Finally, by slotting anything else I can spend an Epic Destiny point or 6 APs in a non-charisma stat.

It's hardly inarguably the best for a sorcerer. Wizard? Now that I could see.

[Ertay]

I feel the litany is an ideal caster trinket encompassing wiz and sorc...its easier to tell yourself its not due to the grind associated with it however. Its a source of stacking DC type stat and hp stat lets not forget the con. For example if you truly want to max your int on say your wizzy you would go with litany, random gen int +8 goggles and insightful int spidersilk. Then you would tome and twist and feat your way to top of the foodchain DC wise. So while some dont want to go thru the grind for it..thats ok. But to say its not the ideal ...imo is incorrect.

Considering litany: Whether the grind would now be worth it or not might be questionable, but I agree that it is absolutely the best in slot. True, the difference might only be noteable in epic elite, but it is there nonetheless, and even for sorcs at that. If you push a sorc a bit, he can absolutely bring the dcs to cc decently, and this will help somewhat.

[sephiroth1084]

Wait, wait. Your saying LITANY is the number one trinket... because it adds +1 to all stats? really? I don't care that it stacks because it's profane, but that sounds REALLY junky for a caster. I guess I'll just keep my more beneficial trinkets. Bauble, Planar Focus +8 int (I think that's what I got, might be +3 insightful int) etc.

At least that's more beneficial than the +1 to str, dex, and wis, cha that I don't need or want lol.


Well, it's your own fault for wanting to use Litany, you're gimping yourself. It's really not worth a permanent slot anymore, only as a switch-in for the clickie.

Additionally, 2 DC isn't a big deal for a sorcerer.


If anything it sounds you're desperately trying to justify the grind you did for it. It's very arguable if it's the best, especially for sorcerers who don't benefit a whole lot from DC, much less the single point of it that Litany would provide. There are several things I'd rather slot as a sorcerer, including Insightful Con +3, Insightful Cha +3 as a Warforged, and Epic Jerky if I don't have Greater/Superior False Life slotted elsewhere.

Finally, by slotting anything else I can spend an Epic Destiny point or 6 APs in a non-charisma stat.

It's hardly inarguably the best for a sorcerer. Wizard? Now that I could see.You guys have got to be kidding. First, you can get +7, +8, +2 to either of Int or Cha in several gear slots. If you don't care about your DCs, then why are you bothering with a trinket that gives you nothing but +3 Cha? Are you using the staff from Caught in the Web? It's not much for nuking.


Litany of the Dead is the only source for a +1 profane bonus to your casting stat, and comes with a bonus to all of your other stats as well. If you care at all about your DCs, it is the best trinket you could be wearing. The fact that it also can be granting you +25 HP, +1 to all your saves and skills, more carrying capacity, a further buffer vs. become helpless from stat damage to any stat, and has a useful clicky on it just further serves to emphasize the point.


And if you think that sorcerers need not concern themselves with their DCs, you've been playing your sorcerers wrong. Good sorcerers nuke and instakill, and they don't see Evaded come up when they toss out their AoEs. I'll admit that you can play a sorcerer without really going all-in on your DCs, but then you're not looking to be optimized anyway, so you can put on whatever **** trinket you like.


Warforged need better docent support. Plain and simple, and their docents need to not all be variations on the Quori Forged Docent of Battle.

[scoobmx]

don't you get it, they don't care about you anymore. They basically made their quick buck selling you WF in the store (for 995 tp no less) and then turned their backs on you and said 'we don't care about you anymore'.

Basically zero thought goes into warforged at all, from all angles, whether it's gear design or mechanic design or destiny/enhancement design or quest design or even bug testing.

The dev argument is basically 'we don't play warforged so we don't know about anything related to them', which I can only conclude one of 2 things:

1) They are just playing favorites and choosing fleshies over warforged because they somehow like them more and choose to devote more dev time into fleshies
2) They're just really dense and for some reason don't see any problems whatsoever even though there are constant threads and bug reports

For 3 months now heal amp is broken in various ways, now you have to relog every time you die or swap gear to reset your heal amp. If that isn't called game-breaking show-stopping bug then I don't know what is.

and re: litany. litany is the gold standard for trinkets. I wear it on every single toon (sorc, fvs, fighter, monk). Yes it is that good. That's why people go nuts when it shows up in the chest.

[sephiroth1084]

For melees, Litany is better than other trinkets on its own, but if you're completing Planar Conflux sets, it falls behind, unless you really need the extra HP, saves and skills.

[scoobmx]

For melees, Litany is better than other trinkets on its own, but if you're completing Planar Conflux sets, it falls behind, unless you really need the extra HP, saves and skills.

Only problem with sets is you're stuck with generally trashy weapons, and when you aren't, they mostly don't break DR. A fair comparison would be conflux trinket with balizarde vs litany with drow khopesh.

[Chai]

you're wrong. litany is #1 trinket. which means you only have 1 place to slot +3 insight, which is body.

+8 int/cha can come from lootgen, +3 insight can't. WF are below fleshies by 1 point from gear, leading to a total of 3 behind from drow, and 2 behind from human. that's a possible 2 DC below drow, very much significant

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383692

Litany is now a twink item,and nothing more.

2 DC is nowhere near as significant as it used to be because when both are maxed out, its the wf that has the advantage, not the drow. If someone wants to be "maxed out" they will have to have stars aligned gear. This is not needed, as I have seen quite a few instances of casters doing epic elite without being anywhere near stars aligned gear slotted or maxed out salient ability. They still easily get the job done.

How many people make WF compared to drow sorc. Guess they will have to decide which is more important, moar DC or better self healing. The advantage is no longer the DC, because what one can have even without +3 insightful or litany is already overkill for most content When its not, those casters are still very effective, in many cases the most effective class.

Its very D&D esque to have these kinds of dilemas where people need to decide and there is a trade off. If youre using drow as your measuring tool, youre using the already most gimped race in DDO. Perhaps these little dilemas are what drow need to set them apart from the other better caster races.

[sephiroth1084]

Only problem with sets is you're stuck with generally trashy weapons, and when you aren't, they mostly don't break DR. A fair comparison would be conflux trinket with balizarde vs litany with drow khopesh.That's going to be very build-dependent. In the case of my paladin, Balizarde is a feat-free khopesh, and breaking DR isn't as big a concern with the paladin capstone, not to mention the possibility of twisting in Gird Against Demons for cold iron.


I'd like to see a DPS comparison between those two set-ups.

[AtomicMew]

What do you mean by "stars aligned" gear? Getting max DC gear is not hard. At all.

+3 insightful spidersilk
+8 int item
+1 exceptional slot (anywhere)
+1 litany
+3 DC staff of the necromancer

All of these items have very high availability with the hardest to get being litany. Abbot is so easy nowdays, that's not too much of an issue either. You can get all of the above easier than it would take to craft a cleansed double shard GS. No star-alignment needed.

[HalfORCastrator]

What do you mean by "stars aligned" gear? Getting max DC gear is not hard. At all.

+3 insightful spidersilk
+8 int item
+1 exceptional slot (anywhere)
+1 litany
+3 DC staff of the necromancer

All of these items have very high availability with the hardest to get being litany. Abbot is so easy nowdays, that's not too much of an issue either. You can get all of the above easier than it would take to craft a cleansed double shard GS. No star-alignment needed.
One of the hardest now is actually the last int point, the few fate points needed for it. (assuming you're going for the spell pen for EE-fatesinger stance and a +3 sp from drac/mag)

And what about that Abbot? Got your comp fixed/replaced? ;) My wiz needs his Litany, after all...

[Kabaon]

Ok, so answer me this. If my stats are EVEN and I get a litany, what good is it then as "best trinket". Aside from my wisdom and cha I think all my other stats are even. What good is a +1 stacking bonus then? Oh right the only response is ship buffs with +1 stats instead of plus +2.....

I'd much rather the Bauble, or the Planar Focus, or at this point the nerfed Eardweller over a +1 to my stats that does nothing....

[Ertay]

Ok, so answer me this. If my stats are EVEN and I get a litany, what good is it then as "best trinket". Aside from my wisdom and cha I think all my other stats are even. What good is a +1 stacking bonus then? Oh right the only response is ship buffs with +1 stats instead of plus +2.....

I'd much rather the Bauble, or the Planar Focus, or at this point the nerfed Eardweller over a +1 to my stats that does nothing....

Moot point. Your stats are even because you planned for them to be even without a litany available. If you factor in a litany from the start, there are a good bit of +7 stat items that carry generally decent modifiers as well, while +8 generally are random loot that has mediocre remaining stats.

Besides, the other stats are a minor perk compared to your primary casting stat.

[SoloPhalanx]

Wait, wait. Your saying LITANY is the number one trinket... because it adds +1 to all stats? really? I don't care that it stacks because it's profane, but that sounds REALLY junky for a caster. I guess I'll just keep my more beneficial trinkets. Bauble, Planar Focus +8 int (I think that's what I got, might be +3 insightful int) etc.

At least that's more beneficial than the +1 to str, dex, and wis, cha that I don't need or want lol.


Ok, so answer me this. If my stats are EVEN and I get a litany, what good is it then as "best trinket". Aside from my wisdom and cha I think all my other stats are even. What good is a +1 stacking bonus then? Oh right the only response is ship buffs with +1 stats instead of plus +2.....

I'd much rather the Bauble, or the Planar Focus, or at this point the nerfed Eardweller over a +1 to my stats that does nothing....

Bauble is useless other then for it's clicky, and that alone shows how clueless you are about this topic.

+8 int can be obtained on random lootgen
+2 insightful int should be in your gear somewhere anyhow, so having +3 in your trinket only gives you +1 int, which litany also gives, in addition to it's other benefits

Even if your int is already even, obtaining the +1 litany gives you, makes it possible for you to twist something else, such as +6 reflex save from draconic/magister (quick example from the top of my head, surely there are much much better options)


Well, it's your own fault for wanting to use Litany, you're gimping yourself. It's really not worth a permanent slot anymore, only as a switch-in for the clickie.

Additionally, 2 DC isn't a big deal for a sorcerer.

Tell me a better trinket for a wizard.


If anything it sounds you're desperately trying to justify the grind you did for it. It's very arguable if it's the best, especially for sorcerers who don't benefit a whole lot from DC, much less the single point of it that Litany would provide. There are several things I'd rather slot as a sorcerer, including Insightful Con +3, Insightful Cha +3 as a Warforged, and Epic Jerky if I don't have Greater/Superior False Life slotted elsewhere.

Finally, by slotting anything else I can spend an Epic Destiny point or 6 APs in a non-charisma stat.

It's hardly inarguably the best for a sorcerer. Wizard? Now that I could see.

Granted, I'm not too familiar with sorcs in end-game, so I'll excuse myself from commenting too much here, will just point out that you can have +2 insightful con and cha somewhere else, making litany turn both of those into "virtual" +3 insightful (so, you end up with 2 +3 instead of 1 +3) (and Jerky, really? you do realise Litany can possibly give you +25 HP, so 15 over what upgrading from GFL to SFL gives you (and gfl is easily slotted)).


snip

Thank you, you have way too much patience ferrum :P

[Kabaon]

Moot point. Your stats are even because you planned for them to be even without a litany available. If you factor in a litany from the start, there are a good bit of +7 stat items that carry generally decent modifiers as well, while +8 generally are random loot that has mediocre remaining stats.

Besides, the other stats are a minor perk compared to your primary casting stat.

Your right, I did plan for them to be even, because I didn't need, nor want the litany. But to say it's the best in slot in fact false.

The only +7 int items I've ever seen we're the Diabloist Robe and Robe of Illusion, I think there might be a couple more, but off the top of my head I can't think of any of them. But for my build the Epic Robe of Shadow trumps them all because it does so much for my PM. Given that it has the same Spell Power as the Pale Master set from ToD (Which if it hadn't been for the fact I get Archmagi from the belt and +2 insightful int from the rings I would have ditched it), plus Sup Void lore, Boon of Undeath and +2 Necro DC's. Hard to give that up (helps so much when I tank :P)

I'm going to revise my statement "Litany is the best in slot if you intend to run Epic Elite"

[Kabaon]

Bauble is useless other then for it's clicky, and that alone shows how clueless you are about this topic.

+8 int can be obtained on random lootgen
+2 insightful int should be in your gear somewhere anyhow, so having +3 in your trinket only gives you +1 int, which litany also gives, in addition to it's other benefits

Even if your int is already even, obtaining the +1 litany gives you, makes it possible for you to twist something else, such as +6 reflex save from draconic/magister (quick example from the top of my head, surely there are much much better options)

I was just pointing out that the bauble is still better than the litany over +1 stats imo.

Yes I get it, +8 is easy to obtain, IF I had slots open that I could handle losing the benefits from. I have in my possession, Epic Robe of Shadow (for obvious reasons), Concord Op goggles, Torc, Planar Focus of Erudition (I think that's my +8), Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak, Eerie Belt, Veriks Ring (for the +6 str, and the +1 exception con, +2 insightful con), Vacuum II Gloves (150 sp), Ash II Boots (HP), Sanura's Band (+6 int which is moot, +2 insightful int), Epic Bracers of Wind (for the boost to lightning damage). My Weapons are the War Wizard staff (best boost at the time, until I can find two caster stacks of cold/elec), or Skyvault Sheild and Cold Absorbtion item (for Shadows)

Unless it's a ring that gives me +3 insightful int, I have no slots at this time that do as much as what my stuff does.

Also, I haven't leveled any other ED's, as Magister benefits me the most.

[Ertay]

Your right, I did plan for them to be even, because I didn't need, nor want the litany. But to say it's the best in slot in fact false.

The only +7 int items I've ever seen we're the Diabloist Robe and Robe of Illusion, I think there might be a couple more, but off the top of my head I can't think of any of them. But for my build the Epic Robe of Shadow trumps them all because it does so much for my PM. Given that it has the same Spell Power as the Pale Master set from ToD (Which if it hadn't been for the fact I get Archmagi from the belt and +2 insightful int from the rings I would have ditched it), plus Sup Void lore, Boon of Undeath and +2 Necro DC's. Hard to give that up (helps so much when I tank :P)

I'm going to revise my statement "Litany is the best in slot if you intend to run Epic Elite"

I agree with the last part, hard and normal don't need any kind of gear optimization, in fact more sp or something might serve you better there in fact.

Concerning the +7 items: your info is a bit outdated it seems. look at motu content, all the named items from the traders have +7/+2 insightful to stats, named items also tend to have +7 most of the time.

[SoloPhalanx]

Your right, I did plan for them to be even, because I didn't need, nor want the litany. But to say it's the best in slot in fact false.

The only +7 int items I've ever seen we're the Diabloist Robe and Robe of Illusion, I think there might be a couple more, but off the top of my head I can't think of any of them. But for my build the Epic Robe of Shadow trumps them all because it does so much for my PM. Given that it has the same Spell Power as the Pale Master set from ToD (Which if it hadn't been for the fact I get Archmagi from the belt and +2 insightful int from the rings I would have ditched it), plus Sup Void lore, Boon of Undeath and +2 Necro DC's. Hard to give that up (helps so much when I tank :P)

I'm going to revise my statement "Litany is the best in slot if you intend to run Epic Elite"

Regarding +7 int before U14: http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Staff_of_Inner_Sight (best source of it, as it also has +2 DC to everything, and allows you to keep Boon of Undeath)

Regarding your gearing choices, I have no idea why you run with 3 GS items. Consider making the boots Conc Opp HP, leaving goggles for a +8 int lootgen, which would be superior to a guard item imo

(I'd also suggest some other stuff, such as chaning from sanura's to rhakir's, and would probably change some other stuff, but thats because i hate challenges anyhow).

Also, I hate the fact you have a torc and have no demon's consort or lion-headed belt. But that's because I'm nearing my 90 completions with no torc.

[danlan]

Litany and +4 tome are both needed for arcanes to optimise dc and more importantly, get more twist ability like spell penetration.

[Kabaon]

Personally, how did this become the topic about "min/max'ing" and "optimal build". All I said was that the litany in my eyes is a far worse choice than a lot of other trinkets out there unless you intend to do a lot of EE Epics.

As for my green steel, it works for me. There was a lot of immunities "pre-u14" on them, spread out because I didn't have a choice if I wanted specific Double Imbues, and my Concord Goggles actually were built before Pale Master existed in DDO.... so yeah. Not gonna go through the effort to REMAKE all my green steel for the "optimal build" crowd, especially since what I can do in game because of my build gives me great flexibility in what I can do. Can I do Epic Elite, I doubt it, but I have been surprised before. And I suspect that's why webs, and necrotic ray and energy drain exist if I so desired to run it.

*Edit* Forgot to mention, when you get hit as much as me, the enervation procs A LOT, so in my eyes, still worth it.

I'm still damned effective in everything else but Epic Elite. Then again at this point so is everyone else :P

And I don't expect everyone to agree with my litany statement, nor do I expect you to rush out and change your toon because I said litany isn't the best trinket in slot on a caster (situation-ally I'd say it is, but not all the time). That's why we have build diversity.

P.S. To the guy saying he has run 90 runs of ADQ2 and still haven't gotten a torc, what's really gonna bake your noodle is that I have two on the same character XD

*Edit 2* I happen to like Epic Bracers of the Wind, Tier 3, slots, Sup Lightning Lore, 90 spellpower on electric attacks, perma blur, and air guard :)

[Pewf]

I support! :D

Also, I love my Litany. I was freaking out when some friends were talking about how useless it would become in the update with the new trinkets. :(

But, I still use it. I don't see any reason to use the Planar sets for my clonk, and Litany lets me achieve even higher wisdom.

But, I agree. Warforged Casters need some insightful docent love.

[HallowedOne]

If someone says DC ain't important for a caster class, then something is wrong. It's like saying you can build a DEX tempest as effective as a STR one.

[DragonMageT]

/Signed

Simple change would be to place +3 Insightful random stat on the Stone Heart.

I wonder if the devs even play any WF toons because with many of the recent changes and now the lack of
a +3 Insightful Int / Wis Docent for WF casters...

It seems like they don't.

[crazydamage]

Stone heart is complete and utter garbage.
Even if it had 8 Int and 3 Int versions it would still be garbage compared to spidersilk.

Spidersilk gives Potency 72 and Wizardry IX ON TOP OF Int 3.

You can argue that Potency 72 is redundant now with Dragon Cloak.
That still leaves Wizardry IX extra which is saving 1 item slot somewhere else.

The fact is, all docents in this game are poorly designed. WF are absolutely worthless for anything except Sorc/Wiz now, and the docents for sorc/wiz are all horribly worse than spidersilk.

WF arcanes are using the Stone Heart simply because there is nothing better. That does not change the fact that it is utter garbage vs spidersilk

[Devonian]

Now now its not all bad.

WF at least get cool attached components like the battlefist- Wait no those never made it out of Pen and Paper.

Well, you get that handy natural attack- No, nor did that.

Well, at least they are immune to energy drain like they are in Pen and paper- Sonnofa...

Still, we have those immunities to Poison and disease, those will be handy against Drow... Oh, right...

Well its not like they are a premium race, that they expect people to pay actual money for- Would you look at that!?

TL: DR? I agree fully with you, WF have been getting the short end of the stick for ages, I mean the only way to get reinforced fists as a WF is a piece of raid loot, and WF monks, who take 2 premium options to bring into the world, get persistently clobbered most of the WF traits are redundantly duplicated, and they never get any class specific docients.

[Zachski]

yes but as a Warforge you are immune to disease and poison.....oh wait nevermind they broke that ....I support your statement

If you're not immune to all disease and poison as a Warforged, your fort saves are too low - get them higher.

Did you know Warforged don't autofail on a 1, meaning they can achieve 100% immunity to magical disease and poison where no other race can? :D

[Munkenmo]

If anything it sounds you're desperately trying to justify the grind you did for it. It's very arguable if it's the best, especially for sorcerers who don't benefit a whole lot from DC, much less the single point of it that Litany would provide. There are several things I'd rather slot as a sorcerer, including Insightful Con +3, Insightful Cha +3 as a Warforged, and Epic Jerky if I don't have Greater/Superior False Life slotted elsewhere.

Finally, by slotting anything else I can spend an Epic Destiny point or 6 APs in a non-charisma stat.

It's hardly inarguably the best for a sorcerer. Wizard? Now that I could see.

I have a +8 int ring, a +3 insightful int robes, +1 exceptional int slotted via clolorless, and a litany.

Please tell me what trinket would give me a higher casting stat.

Don't try your sorcs don't need dc's argument, the difference between an average sorc and a great sorc are dc's. Given that he's already 1-2 behind by choosing w/f, every extra dc counts.

I'll be gearing my sorc the same way when he loots a litany too.

Edit: just read that you're type of player who's content with Epic Hard or less, now your posts all make sense.

[Devonian]

If you're not immune to all disease and poison as a Warforged, your fort saves are too low - get them higher.

Did you know Warforged don't autofail on a 1, meaning they can achieve 100% immunity to magical disease and poison where no other race can? :D

Except monks who get the same no-auto-fail thing.

[Cinos]

second thought edit: Why am I even arguing? I totally agree with the TC on adding such an item anyway.

[DragonMageT]

Stone heart is complete and utter garbage.
Even if it had 8 Int and 3 Int versions it would still be garbage compared to spidersilk.

Spidersilk gives Potency 72 and Wizardry IX ON TOP OF Int 3.

You can argue that Potency 72 is redundant now with Dragon Cloak.
That still leaves Wizardry IX extra which is saving 1 item slot somewhere else.

The fact is, all docents in this game are poorly designed. WF are absolutely worthless for anything except Sorc/Wiz now, and the docents for sorc/wiz are all horribly worse than spidersilk.

WF arcanes are using the Stone Heart simply because there is nothing better. That does not change the fact that it is utter garbage vs spidersilk

Did you miss the part about WF ? hence the reason for the OP.

If the Stone Heart had +3 insightful Int / Wis it would be the best item in the game for WF casters in that slot.
Goggles/Ring +8 Int, Stone Heart +3 Insightful Int, Litany, +1 except Int anywhere = max DC

Comparing the Stone heart to Spidersilk is just an epic fail.
Now only if my WF toon could wear that Spidersilk.

[DragonMageT]

Now now its not all bad.

WF at least get cool attached components like the battlefist- Wait no those never made it out of Pen and Paper.

Well, you get that handy natural attack- No, nor did that.

Well, at least they are immune to energy drain like they are in Pen and paper- Sonnofa...

Still, we have those immunities to Poison and disease, those will be handy against Drow... Oh, right...

Well its not like they are a premium race, that they expect people to pay actual money for- Would you look at that!?

TL: DR? I agree fully with you, WF have been getting the short end of the stick for ages, I mean the only way to get reinforced fists as a WF is a piece of raid loot, and WF monks, who take 2 premium options to bring into the world, get persistently clobbered most of the WF traits are redundantly duplicated, and they never get any class specific docients.

Well at least the healing change made it desirable to be WF again. What? nvm