Epic Zombie Dreadnought

[AnsharDarkangel]

I've had a lot of fun building and rebuilding my Pale Master Monk through many of the updates that we've had to this game. My original build was an 18 Wizard/2 Monk Warforged Lich Monk that used a Docent of Defiance and temporary hit point procs to stay alive.

After lots of waiting, the new necromancy spells arrived and I finally had reliable self-healing. My build was very limited because of attack bonus problems, and I was plagued by wanting to use power attack but not wanting to be chained to Divine Power items or Tenser's Transformation. The concept seemed strong, but it had a few specific failings that I simply couldn't reconcile. I considered changing to more levels of Monk, but at this point in the game Lich Form was moved to level 18 from level 12 and I felt obligated to stay with 18 levels of Wizard.

I decided to TR into a Halfling and make use of Cunning/Guile enhancements to gain a large situational increase to damage and attack. By using a Radiance Guard item and a Stunning +10 item, I was able to stun most epic trash or sneak attack blind mobs, shoring up many of my hitting problems and still leaving me with a fair amount of casting power. At this stage I was still using an 18 Wizard/2 Monk build. When I finished my itemization, I was able to solo a lot of epic content and I even made a video of myself farming Epic VoN1 for Sword of Shadow Scrolls to show off my build concept (link below). At this point, the level cap was still 20 and I was anxiously awaiting the new Epic Content.

With the new Epic Destinies around the corner, I had a lot of new ideas to consider. To be a viable caster, I would have to go with one of the epic caster destinies to get spell casting increases and I wasn't sure I wanted to go with Magister or Draconic Incarnation to remain spell viable.

Ultimately, I decided to go with Zombie Form instead of Lich Form, despite the cautioning of many many individuals on the forums who advised me that it was mostly unplayable because of the speed penalty to melee attacks. I was told that making a Zombie character could never really be optimal, I would have to do it just for the flavor and suffer through its drawbacks.

Despite this, I designed a 12 Monk/8 Wizard progression and set to work on multiple build revisions until I felt I had eked out every possible bit of utility to make the character viable.

Here's a video I just made of the same Epic VoN1 Scroll Run (Epic Hard) with the new character build for your consideration:

Old (Pre MotU) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ex4d5nLyE
Current MotU Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-xrcQDWAXU (Master's Blitz at 2:25)

Be sure to watch in HD (Normal Resolution is AWFUL).

I'll post my build and itemization here for your feedback and comments.

Scarabis the Chosen of Vol
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(12 Monk / 8 Wizard)

Starting
Abilities Base Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1)
Strength 16
Dexterity 14
Constitution 16
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 14
Charisma 8

Tomes Used
+1 Supreme Tome used at level 3
+2 Supreme Tome used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 5 (Wizard)
Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Level 8 (Wizard)
Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 10 (Wizard)
Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 13 (Monk)
Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Level 16 (Monk)
Level 17 (Monk)
Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19 (Monk)
Level 20 (Monk)
Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Martial Arts
Level 22 (Epic)
Level 23 (Epic)
Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Level 25 (Epic)

Legendary Dreadnought:
Strength 1+2
Legendary Tactics 3/3
Extra Action Boost 3/3
Action Boost: Haste 3/3
Critical Damage 3/3
Devastating Critical 1/1
Advancing Blows 1/1
Master's Blitz 1/1

Twists:
Sense Weakness 3/3 (Fury of the Wild)
Unstoppable Fury 3/3 (Fury of the Wild)
A Dance of Flowers 3/3 (Grandmaster of Flowers)

Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound III
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Shroud of the Zombie

Minos Legens - +20hp, Heavy Fortification
Greensteel Goggles - +45hp, Concordant Opposition, +6 Wisdom
Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II - Greater Spell Penetration VIII, Wizardry VI, Transform Kinetic Energy, Exceptional Constitution +1
Epic Robe of Shadow - Superior Nullification IX, Superior Void Lore, Superior False Life, Greater Necromancy Focus, Boon of Undeath
Epic Cloak of Night - Invisibility Guard, Ghostly, Deathblock, Nightmare Guard, DR 5/Good
Epic Bracers of the Demon Consort - Demonic Curse, Demonic Shield, Demonic Retribution, Intimidate +15, Exceptional Wisdom +1, Resistance +4
Epic Brawling Gloves - 20 Unarmed Proc, +4/+6 Sneak Attack Bonus, Strength +7, Dexterity +6
Greensteel Boots - Minor Fire Guard, +50sp +2 Cha Skills, +100sp +3 Int Skills, Radiance Guard
Epic Spare Hand - +5 Exceptional Combat Mastery, 3% Doublestrike, +2 Good Luck, +1 Exceptional Dexterity +1
Sanura's Band - Intelligence +6, Exceptional Intelligence +1, Pale Master Set Bonus, Holy Burst
Epic Ring of the Stalker - Exceptional Sneak Attack +3, Seeker +6, Manslayer, Ghostly, Constitution +6, Exceptional Strength +1

Handwraps +7 Byeshk Alchemical Handwraps - Shocking Burst, Stunning +10, Alchemical Dexterity +2, Lightning Strike, Doublestrike 6%, Electric Storm
Stunning Fist DC: 55

I'd love your feedback or comments.

( EDIT: Added an Epic Elite video per thread request: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TniBDrcHUP8 )

[TasMagar]

Impressive ! Thank you for sharing this . I watched both videos and i must say that i liked the melee zombie :)

[78mackson]

lol funniest farm video I ve seen so far!

[AnsharDarkangel]

Thanks for the feedback.

If there's interest, I can also post an Epic Elite version of the same quest for comparison. It's not suitable for scroll farming, since it's slower, but the build is still quite hardy on that difficulty as well.

[Ziindarax]

Thanks for the feedback.

If there's interest, I can also post an Epic Elite version of the same quest for comparison. It's not suitable for scroll farming, since it's slower, but the build is still quite hardy on that difficulty as well.

I am interested, please share. :D

[AnsharDarkangel]

I am interested, please share. :D

As you wish, sir.

Enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TniBDrcHUP8

[Ziindarax]

As you wish, sir.

Enjoy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TniBDrcHUP8

I must say, that seems rather remarkable. What's your stats on the build when it is fully buffed out?

HP/SP? Dodge?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Ive been considering a similar concept but 12 wizard (wraith form)/7 rogue/1 monk, halfling. The extra 4d6+9 sneak attack/hit would seem to add more than what monk gives for purposes of trash destruction. With 12 wizard levels and mental toughness the option is opened up to take epic mental toughness for using offensive no save spells to supplement DPS (acid rain/ice storm or EES/NBC depending on situation).

Also thinking Shadowdancer. What prompted you to LD rather than SD or GMoF?

[AnsharDarkangel]

I must say, that seems rather remarkable. What's your stats on the build when it is fully buffed out? HP/SP? Dodge?

In final gear with full ship/personal buffs (in Earth Stance and Zombie Form):

STR 42
DEX 30
CON 40
INT 22
WIS 30
CHA 12

800 HP
760 SP

68 AC
14% Dodge
50% Displacement
25% Incorporeality (Ninja Spy)

I went with Dreadnought because it enhances melee DPS considerably more than Shadowdancer does, and my Wisdom isn't really high enough to enjoy many of the benefits of GMoH. Combat Brute with a Sense Weakness Twist really tears things up, as well.

[wax_on_wax_off]

In final gear with full ship/personal buffs (in Earth Stance and Zombie Form):

STR 42
DEX 30
CON 40
INT 22
WIS 30
CHA 12

800 HP
760 SP

68 AC
14% Dodge
50% Displacement
25% Incorporeality (Ninja Spy)

I went with Dreadnought because it enhances melee DPS considerably more than Shadowdancer does, and my Wisdom isn't really high enough to enjoy many of the benefits of GMoH. Combat Brute with a Sense Weakness Twist really tears things up, as well.

Defenses look in order but still question the offensive abilities of the build. SP seems quite low too for maintaining multiple 1 round/level spells.

[AnsharDarkangel]

The Torc and Conc Opp item, along with the fact that I am in melee constantly, usually give me more SP than I could ever need. The only time I run out of SP is if I'm forced to nuke heal myself 4-5 times in an encounter. I almost NEVER run out of SP, certainly not before I've hit at least one shrine.

[wax_on_wax_off]

On the question of LD vs SD I can see that LD is good vs helpless does that you can stun but vs red names and raid bosses I'd think that SD would be more DPS for the +6d6 SA damage and, to a lesser extent, the epic moment.

That said, with -20% attack speed, maybe LD is better but that isn't a positive observation. How is zombie preferable to wraith form? How is 8-12 monk preferable to 7 rogue? How is 7-12 of anything better than 12 wizard?

On another note, tensers has been updated to not prevent casting and give +4 alchemical strength among other things making 11-12 wizard even more desirable.

[sephiroth1084]

Adding to tracked threads, because this discussion/build is amusing.

Do continue.

[AnsharDarkangel]

Zombie is preferable to Wraith form for 4 reasons.

One, Zombie allows for Tier 3 Earth Stance, giving an additional +1 multiplier to Dreadnought's +1.

Two, Zombie allows for more Monk levels, which grants Touch of Death, additional unarmed die steps (which stack with the increased unarmed dice from Zombie form), and access to Improved Martial Arts.

Three, going with 12 Monk allows for 2nd Tier Ninja Spy, granting additional sneak attack dice and making dual wielding Celestia a possibility for later.

Four, the 25% incorporeality from Ninja Spy does not stack with Wraith Form, making one of the primary reasons to go with Wraith Form redundant.



With 12 Levels of Monk I also have no issues dropping out of Zombie Form when fighting mobs I don't need the extra survivability for (or in a group where my extra survivability from Zombie Form is negligible compared to being healable by mass effects). In these circumstances I have Displacement, my own Haste, and a scroll-cast Tenser's Transformation to shore up any deficiencies I have from multiclassing.

I in no way believe being a Zombie Monk is "optimal". My aim with the build was to try making a zombie monk build that can keep up with the vast majority of characters and be useful to a party, allowing me to try something a little different but still effective. I often live when other party members or my entire party die.

Thanks for the questions! :)

[wax_on_wax_off]

Zombie is preferable to Wraith form for 4 reasons.

One, Zombie allows for Tier 3 Earth Stance, giving an additional +1 multiplier to Dreadnought's +1.

Two, Zombie allows for more Monk levels, which grants Touch of Death, additional unarmed die steps (which stack with the increased unarmed dice from Zombie form), and access to Improved Martial Arts.

Three, going with 12 Monk allows for 2nd Tier Ninja Spy, granting additional sneak attack dice and making dual wielding Celestia a possibility for later.

Four, the 25% incorporeality from Ninja Spy does not stack with Wraith Form, making one of the primary reasons to go with Wraith Form redundant.



With 12 Levels of Monk I also have no issues dropping out of Zombie Form when fighting mobs I don't need the extra survivability for (or in a group where my extra survivability from Zombie Form is negligible compared to being healable by mass effects). In these circumstances I have Displacement, my own Haste, and a scroll-cast Tenser's Transformation to shore up any deficiencies I have from multiclassing.

I in no way believe being a Zombie Monk is "optimal". My aim with the build was to try making a zombie monk build that can keep up with the vast majority of characters and be useful to a party, allowing me to try something a little different but still effective. I often live when other party members or my entire party die.

Thanks for the questions! :)

1. Considering DPS you're getting ~+9% first number DPS but -20% overall DPS; doesn't seem to add up.
2. Pretty sure in terms of DPS that 7 rogue (4d6+9 SA and maybe a free twist) is more damage than what 12 monk offers.
3. With Antipode there's no need for Celestia
4. Look at it the other way, with wraith form there's no reason to beyond 1 monk opening up the 7 rogue option.

I'd really love to do a life as something like this just to try it. Currently I'm stuck between 12 wizard/7 rogue/1 monk or 18 wizard/1 rogue/1 monk, either with Shadowdancer as a halfling hoping to take Assassin III when the enhancement pass goes through.

75% on TT scrolls isn't enough, if you swap to use it and then fail every time you swap to and fro when the cooldowns expires you're losing big chunks of DPS.

Have you considered doing some DPS calcs for the character? I've got some in another thread that might help but not sure how to apply the -20% from zombie form. Not sure how to quantify the LD stuff either.

[AnsharDarkangel]

I've found the build very fun and rewarding to play. I often get lots of questions from those I group with. I'm not sure if a rogue gish build would be more effective or not, but at its heart this build was about creating a Zombie Monk. Build idiosyncrasies and my reasoning aside, it simply wouldn't be a Zombie Monk build without the Monk levels.

If the build inspires you to try something different, by all means send me a message and let me know how it works out. That's the fun of trying something new.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I think any unarmed undead form character is going to be flavour right from the get go. Anyway, below is some idle moments while I've been on the couch watching the football as I can't play DDO at the moment so bear with me.

Your characters damage afaics:
(2 zombie+0.5 improved power attack+1 LD+1 bykesh+1 improved martial arts+1.5 dof[1d6]+16 strength+5 power attack+7 enhancement+2 ship buff+6 advancing blows)*(17 hits+2 crits for x4 damage)+(8 halfling SA+6 item SA+5 exc SA+d4 brawling+2d6 holy ring+d6 shocking)+(6 seeker+6 crit dam)*4*2+(17.5 holy burst+16.5 shocking burst)*2+(9.15 lightning strike+5 manslayer+3.5*15/20 electric storm)

(7(3.5)+5+16+7+2+6)*(17+2*4)/20+(8+6+5+2.5+7+3.5)*19/20+((6+6)*4*2+(17.5+16.5)*2)/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20

(7(3.5)+36)*25/20+32*19/20+(96+68)/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20=131/hit

Attack speed:
normal: 93.23 * (1+ 1.2939 * (.15-.2))=87.2
Haste boost:*93.23 * (1+ 1.2939 * (.15+.3-.2))=123.4

Normal: 131*87.2*1.86/60=354 DPS
Haste boost:131*123.4*1.86/60=501 DPS

So ... 160 seconds of moderate DPS and the rest of the time with 350 you're approaching half of what a full melee build is putting out.

This is assuming that advancing blows is at max stack (unlikely) and 0 saves vs electric storm (impossible).

I'm sure masters blitz is good but a good epic moment a viable character does not make. Apparently the +50% vs helpless from LD isn't working if haste boost is active.

I'd prefer a full time undead form character rather than a part time zombie form character.

If you put the same gear on a 12 wizard/7 rogue/1 monk/5 shadowdancer you end up with:

1 bykesh+1 improved martial arts+1.5 dof[1d6]+15 strength+5 power attack+7 enhancement+2 ship buff)*(17 hits+2 crits for x2 damage)+(+23 rogue+21 SD+8 halfling SA+6 item SA+5 exc SA+d4 brawling+2d6 holy ring+d6 shocking)+(6 seeker)*2*2+(10.5 holy burst+5.5 shocking burst)*2+(9.15 lightning strike+5 manslayer+3.5*15/20 electric storm)

(3.5(3.5)+29)*21/20+76*19/20+(6*2+10.5+5.5)*2/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20=135.01

135.01*111.3*1.89/60=473.34
135.01*141.5*1.89/60=601.77

So that's 100 damage/second that the build with more casting levels, more SP, more spells etc has ... Feats are a wash so no advantage there. HP/saves favours monk levels but there are approaches to that (epic toughness possibly).

Finally, I'd be looking at Precision as a feat. With 19 SA hit Preision will give +19*0.25 SA/hit vs applicable targets as a starting point and it just gets better from there considering you probably don't hit on a 2 more often than most builds and you've got a good crit profile so gain advantage there.*

[scottmike0]

I think any unarmed undead form character is going to be flavour right from the get go. Anyway, below is some idle moments while I've been on the couch watching the football as I can't play DDO at the moment so bear with me.

Your characters damage afaics:
(2 zombie+0.5 improved power attack+1 LD+1 bykesh+1 improved martial arts+1.5 dof[1d6]+16 strength+5 power attack+7 enhancement+2 ship buff+6 advancing blows)*(17 hits+2 crits for x4 damage)+(8 halfling SA+6 item SA+5 exc SA+d4 brawling+2d6 holy ring+d6 shocking)+(6 seeker+6 crit dam)*4*2+(17.5 holy burst+16.5 shocking burst)*2+(9.15 lightning strike+5 manslayer+3.5*15/20 electric storm)

(7(3.5)+5+16+7+2+6)*(17+2*4)/20+(8+6+5+2.5+7+3.5)*19/20+((6+6)*4*2+(17.5+16.5)*2)/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20

(7(3.5)+36)*25/20+32*19/20+(96+68)/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20=131/hit

Attack speed:
normal: 93.23 * (1+ 1.2939 * (.15-.2))=87.2
Haste boost:*93.23 * (1+ 1.2939 * (.15+.3-.2))=123.4

Normal: 131*87.2*1.86/60=354 DPS
Haste boost:131*123.4*1.86/60=501 DPS

So ... 160 seconds of moderate DPS and the rest of the time with 350 you're approaching half of what a full melee build is putting out.

This is assuming that advancing blows is at max stack (unlikely) and 0 saves vs electric storm (impossible).

I'm sure masters blitz is good but a good epic moment a viable character does not make. Apparently the +50% vs helpless from LD isn't working if haste boost is active.

I'd prefer a full time undead form character rather than a part time zombie form character.

If you put the same gear on a 12 wizard/7 rogue/1 monk/5 shadowdancer you end up with:

1 bykesh+1 improved martial arts+1.5 dof[1d6]+15 strength+5 power attack+7 enhancement+2 ship buff)*(17 hits+2 crits for x2 damage)+(+23 rogue+21 SD+8 halfling SA+6 item SA+5 exc SA+d4 brawling+2d6 holy ring+d6 shocking)+(6 seeker)*2*2+(10.5 holy burst+5.5 shocking burst)*2+(9.15 lightning strike+5 manslayer+3.5*15/20 electric storm)

(3.5(3.5)+29)*21/20+76*19/20+(6*2+10.5+5.5)*2/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20=135.01

135.01*111.3*1.89/60=473.34
135.01*141.5*1.89/60=601.77

So that's 100 damage/second that the build with more casting levels, more SP, more spells etc has ... Feats are a wash so no advantage there. HP/saves favours monk levels but there are approaches to that (epic toughness possibly).

Finally, I'd be looking at Precision as a feat. With 19 SA hit Preision will give +19*0.25 SA/hit vs applicable targets as a starting point and it just gets better from there considering you probably don't hit on a 2 more often than most builds and you've got a good crit profile so gain advantage there.*
one thing you missed was the hidden stat damage when fighting as a zombie

-6 int or 6 cha depending on which proc's first, i realize that when i was playing my palemaster monk yesterday in zombie form that i was doing the stat damage.... because it was not wraps nor gear making the stat damage occur

[wax_on_wax_off]

one thing you missed was the hidden stat damage when fighting as a zombie

-6 int or 6 cha depending on which proc's first, i realize that when i was playing my palemaster monk yesterday in zombie form that i was doing the stat damage.... because it was not wraps nor gear making the stat damage occur

Nor did I mention the con damage on crits from wraith form which gives HP penalty, fortitude save penalty (for landing SF), can be teamed with virulent poison and is more often targeted by other players (for team reductions to get helpless status).

[scottmike0]

Nor did I mention the con damage on crits from wraith form which gives HP penalty, fortitude save penalty (for landing SF), can be teamed with virulent poison and is more often targeted by other players (for team reductions to get helpless status).

but i was focused at the first post less of the second build you gave :3

but still -6 int/cha is pretty awesome playin as a zombie hybrid monk

[wax_on_wax_off]

but i was focused at the first post less of the second build you gave :3

but still -6 int/cha is pretty awesome playin as a zombie hybrid monk

1d6 int/cha damage, not -6 right? Not sure it's worth having 50-60% of the DPS of a proper melee to be a zombie.

[Vormaerin]

1d6 int/cha damage, not -6 right? Not sure it's worth having 50-60% of the DPS of a proper melee to be a zombie.

One of these days, you'll actually accept that not everyone has the same priorities as you do. You keep dropping into these clearly flavor build threads with tons of advice about how if the OP did something completely different, he'd be better.

Newsflash: He wouldn't be better off if he had less fun playing your optimized whatever because he really wanted to play a Zombie Monk.

Last time, it was a guy wanting to play a non-Monk based archer.

I'm sure he's aware that Zombie Monk is not the best thing ever, since he mentioned the downsides in his OP. I know you are trying to be helpful. But, seriously, relax a bit and let folks play how they want, not how you think is "the most effective." You can always ban him from your LFMs if necessary. ;)

[wax_on_wax_off]

One of these days, you'll actually accept that not everyone has the same priorities as you do. You keep dropping into these clearly flavor build threads with tons of advice about how if the OP did something completely different, he'd be better.

Newsflash: He wouldn't be better off if he had less fun playing your optimized whatever because he really wanted to play a Zombie Monk.

Last time, it was a guy wanting to play a non-Monk based archer.

I'm sure he's aware that Zombie Monk is not the best thing ever, since he mentioned the downsides in his OP. I know you are trying to be helpful. But, seriously, relax a bit and let folks play how they want, not how you think is "the most effective." You can always ban him from your LFMs if necessary. ;)

Scarabis is a always welcome in my groups and he knows that. If my posts distress you so much then feel free to ignore them. I post in this thread because I'm very interested in the topic of unarmed, undead form characters, for that matter I've created multiple topics about them and gone to significant lengths preparing one of my characters for a life as one if I can find a build that I'm comfortable with.

While you may disapprove of my posts you can find other "flavour" build threads in which the OP has "seen the light" and improved their build despite previously being very aggressive and defensive. This is a forum, we post what we like, I realise that not everyone appreciates my input but on balance I seem to get more positive feedback than negative so if you don't mind I'll keep on keeping on.

[Ziindarax]

On the question of LD vs SD I can see that LD is good vs helpless does that you can stun but vs red names and raid bosses I'd think that SD would be more DPS for the +6d6 SA damage and, to a lesser extent, the epic moment.

That said, with -20% attack speed, maybe LD is better but that isn't a positive observation. How is zombie preferable to wraith form? How is 8-12 monk preferable to 7 rogue? How is 7-12 of anything better than 12 wizard?

On another note, tensers has been updated to not prevent casting and give +4 alchemical strength among other things making 11-12 wizard even more desirable.

Awesome! So now I could keep my BaB bonus maxed without fear of penalty to casting? Where does it say Tenser was changed? Can you provide a screenshot?

Edit: I just cast Tensers on me, and have noticed the boost to Strength. However, the spell/effect description still has it saying that it's enhancement and prevents spell casting.

[Tirisha]

1d6 int/cha damage, not -6 right? Not sure it's worth having 50-60% of the DPS of a proper melee to be a zombie.

being able to be 12 monk is what sells it for me. Monk speed+ abundant step+tier 3 earth *19-20 crit*+tod puts it on par for me over say your rogue wraith.

It's a cool and effective build for sure, survivable and deadly.

[Vormaerin]

While you may disapprove of my posts you can find other "flavour" build threads in which the OP has "seen the light" and improved their build despite previously being very aggressive and defensive. This is a forum, we post what we like, I realise that not everyone appreciates my input but on balance I seem to get more positive feedback than negative so if you don't mind I'll keep on keeping on.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say "disapproves" nor did I actually tell you to stop posting. I just think that often you seem to miss the point of threads. It just seems that sometimes you ignore the OP's intent and keep going on and on long after the OP said "Thanks, but no thanks."

Perhaps I misread your intent, but after the OP says he knows its not optimal but its what he considers fun and you bust out the math about how he isn't as good as he could be if he did something radically different, it felt like a repeat of the page after page you tried to convince that other guy he had to be a monk.

Anyway, sorry if you thought I was telling you to stop posting.

[wax_on_wax_off]

being able to be 12 monk is what sells it for me. Monk speed+ abundant step+tier 3 earth *19-20 crit*+tod puts it on par for me over say your rogue wraith.

It's a cool and effective build for sure, survivable and deadly.

350 DPS isn't "deadly".
650-700 DPS is deadly and about what a pure melee DPS character can put out afaik
550 DPS is respectable and something to aim for (the wraith build gets there via spells, even arcane archers get here)

[scottmike0]

hey hey, in response of that 1d6 cha/int damage.. i have not seen my zombie monk at low levels get less than a six.. either that im just lucky, or something...

just saying about that 1d6 its more six than anything..

[Tirisha]

350 DPS isn't "deadly".
650-700 DPS is deadly and about what a pure melee DPS character can put out afaik
550 DPS is respectable and something to aim for (the wraith build gets there via spells, even arcane archers get here)

do you have a break down on how his build is a 350 dps build? I'm not really a math guy.

[wax_on_wax_off]

do you have a break down on how his build is a 350 dps build? I'm not really a math guy.


Normal: 131*87.2*1.86/60=354 DPS
Haste boost:131*123.4*1.86/60=501 DPS

If you put the same gear on a 12 wizard/7 rogue/1 monk/5 shadowdancer you end up with:

135.01*111.3*1.89/60=473.34 DPS
135.01*141.5*1.89/60=601.77 DPS

Full calcs are in that post. Not everything is included. For instance, you can reduce the OPs damage by 20.3 DPS as its unlikely you'll have a full stack of advancing blows very often. Both sets are are ignoring saves vs electric storm. ToD isn't included for the OPs damage/hit so you can add 32.4 DPS along with whatever strikes you can get off after using stunning fist etc.

The biggest thing with the build comparison is that the wraith build can supplement its DPS with spells like EES/NBC for bosses or Acid Rain/Ice Storm for trash.

[ThreeEyedBob]

No matter how much dps this build carries its a hell of a lot of fun to play.

I made one myself based on OP's build (Zombiestyle Dreadnought, of Khyber) but I'm gonna have to do a lot of geargrinding to get anywhere near OP's level. But I do love the survivability and style of play.

Just a small comment on the enhancements listed. It seems some abilities are a few points off meaning I have to take some unlisted enhancements (took halfling save increases for what was needed) at certain points.

[AnsharDarkangel]

No matter how much dps this build carries its a hell of a lot of fun to play.

I made one myself based on OP's build (Zombiestyle Dreadnought, of Khyber) but I'm gonna have to do a lot of geargrinding to get anywhere near OP's level. But I do love the survivability and style of play.

Just a small comment on the enhancements listed. It seems some abilities are a few points off meaning I have to take some unlisted enhancements (took halfling save increases for what was needed) at certain points.

Until you have 6 levels of Monk, you can't get some of the key enhancements on the list. There's another level break a little higher up as well. The smart thing to do is to just take the most useful enhancements you can at your level and then respec at level 6 monk and level 9 monk (for touch of death).

[AnsharDarkangel]

If I hadn't been looking specifically for a Zombie-Themed Monk build, I think I probably would have gone with 6 Monk, 12 Wizard, 2 Rogue. A self-healing wraith dual wielding two Celestias with Rogue Skills and UMD would have probably been another fun way to go. I still probably wouldn't have focused on spellcasting for damage purposes, however. I would have gotten enough Dexterity for Greater Two Weapon Fighting and then focused on Strength with my level increases, using Intelligence as a dump stat and getting the prerequisite casting stats via items. That allows all spell points to be used for buffing and self healing, keeping resources efficient.

This is most likely a playstyle choice, but I'm not fond of having a dependence on an exhaustible resource like spellpoints.

[wax_on_wax_off]

If I hadn't been looking specifically for a Zombie-Themed Monk build, I think I probably would have gone with 6 Monk, 12 Wizard, 2 Rogue. A self-healing wraith dual wielding two Celestias with Rogue Skills and UMD would have probably been another fun way to go. I still probably wouldn't have focused on spellcasting for damage purposes, however. I would have gotten enough Dexterity for Greater Two Weapon Fighting and then focused on Strength with my level increases, using Intelligence as a dump stat and getting the prerequisite casting stats via items. That allows all spell points to be used for buffing and self healing, keeping resources efficient.

This is most likely a playstyle choice, but I'm not fond of having a dependence on an exhaustible resource like spellpoints.

I agree with these sentiments but it's silly how small an investment is needed to have some useful spell casting. For instance, 1 gear slot on average and feats taken already for self healing is enough to add 100 or 200 DPS in many boss fights or quests where shrines are plentiful. In the case of your build an increase from 350 to 450 is pretty massive.

Sure, it won't always be an option due to shrine constraints but it's a cheap option to get and options are good.

[ThreeEyedBob]

Thanks for the feedback on the enhancements.

Just a little tip for anyone who want to try this and dont have the gear available (but a crafter). I made myself some handwraps with Melee Alacrity (+10% attack speed) which compensates some for the -20% from zombieform. It also makes having the haste running somewhat redundant since the two dont stack. With haste on top you get an extra 5% for a total of -5%. Saves you some spellpoints at least.

Love the build so far and only PITA I've encountered is undead casters (mummies/wraith priests so far) that actually cast light spells on me. This is anathema to the D&D rules where undead creatures are negative beings limited to using negative spells, never positive spells. Kobold shamans etc throwing around positive spells is ok and you have to be careful. I just dont like how Turbine screwed up with the undead casters.

[Eth]

Zombie is preferable to Wraith form for 4 reasons.

One, Zombie allows for Tier 3 Earth Stance, giving an additional +1 multiplier to Dreadnought's +1.

Two, Zombie allows for more Monk levels, which grants Touch of Death, additional unarmed die steps (which stack with the increased unarmed dice from Zombie form), and access to Improved Martial Arts.

Three, going with 12 Monk allows for 2nd Tier Ninja Spy, granting additional sneak attack dice and making dual wielding Celestia a possibility for later.

Four, the 25% incorporeality from Ninja Spy does not stack with Wraith Form, making one of the primary reasons to go with Wraith Form redundant.



With 12 Levels of Monk I also have no issues dropping out of Zombie Form when fighting mobs I don't need the extra survivability for (or in a group where my extra survivability from Zombie Form is negligible compared to being healable by mass effects). In these circumstances I have Displacement, my own Haste, and a scroll-cast Tenser's Transformation to shore up any deficiencies I have from multiclassing.

I in no way believe being a Zombie Monk is "optimal". My aim with the build was to try making a zombie monk build that can keep up with the vast majority of characters and be useful to a party, allowing me to try something a little different but still effective. I often live when other party members or my entire party die.

Thanks for the questions! :)

A zombie halfling wielding two shortswords that deal pure light damage? This build is full of win!

[Scarious]

I have to say, I'm liking both of these builds, buy what looks really interesting is that I THINK you can have vampire form and the Shadowdancer Shadow Form (which is basically Wraith sans undead traits, and con damage is now strength) active at the same time (again, not sure at all). So you have the 25% incorporealness, bonuses to hide/move silently, have 25% less threat from both spells and melee, +2 strength, charisma, and enchantment DCs, heal 1 HP per attack, and deal both CON and STR damage on criticals. The one major flaw is both are weak to light, so how would the 2x light damage (Shadow Form) and 4x light damage (vampire form) interact?

How would you do your SD tree, wax_on_wax_off?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I have to say, I'm liking both of these builds, buy what looks really interesting is that I THINK you can have vampire form and the Shadowdancer Shadow Form (which is basically Wraith sans undead traits, and con damage is now strength) active at the same time (again, not sure at all). So you have the 25% incorporealness, bonuses to hide/move silently, have 25% less threat from both spells and melee, +2 strength, charisma, and enchantment DCs, heal 1 HP per attack, and deal both CON and STR damage on criticals. The one major flaw is both are weak to light, so how would the 2x light damage (Shadow Form) and 4x light damage (vampire form) interact?

How would you do your SD tree, wax_on_wax_off?

Shadow Form and undead shrouds are apparently exclusive.

[voxson5]

Haha this build is just full of awesome, thank you for showing off what it can do OP.

I especially like how you make EE Von1 look like a casual walk through ;)

[Perspicacity]

I watched the video, it was an impressive performance. While your build definitely gets lots of points for awesomeness, can I ask what is the advantage over a pure monk? If this was just done to see if you could make a viable zombie I'd say mission accomplished, job well done, but if you can say this build can go toe to toe with a pure monk I'd be very impressed.

[voxson5]

I know you've been playing ith variations, just wondering how a human 12/7/1 monk/wiz/fighter variant compares?

Thinking the 2 extra feats could net you great cleave and overwhelming critical

[Noopleh]

I was impressed by the vid. may roll one of them :) Awesome work

[Lifespawn]

I've had a lot of fun building and rebuilding my Pale Master Monk through many of the updates that we've had to this game. My original build was an 18 Wizard/2 Monk Warforged Lich Monk that used a Docent of Defiance and temporary hit point procs to stay alive.

After lots of waiting, the new necromancy spells arrived and I finally had reliable self-healing. My build was very limited because of attack bonus problems, and I was plagued by wanting to use power attack but not wanting to be chained to Divine Power items or Tenser's Transformation. The concept seemed strong, but it had a few specific failings that I simply couldn't reconcile. I considered changing to more levels of Monk, but at this point in the game Lich Form was moved to level 18 from level 12 and I felt obligated to stay with 18 levels of Wizard.

I decided to TR into a Halfling and make use of Cunning/Guile enhancements to gain a large situational increase to damage and attack. By using a Radiance Guard item and a Stunning +10 item, I was able to stun most epic trash or sneak attack blind mobs, shoring up many of my hitting problems and still leaving me with a fair amount of casting power. At this stage I was still using an 18 Wizard/2 Monk build. When I finished my itemization, I was able to solo a lot of epic content and I even made a video of myself farming Epic VoN1 for Sword of Shadow Scrolls to show off my build concept (link below). At this point, the level cap was still 20 and I was anxiously awaiting the new Epic Content.

With the new Epic Destinies around the corner, I had a lot of new ideas to consider. To be a viable caster, I would have to go with one of the epic caster destinies to get spell casting increases and I wasn't sure I wanted to go with Magister or Draconic Incarnation to remain spell viable.

Ultimately, I decided to go with Zombie Form instead of Lich Form, despite the cautioning of many many individuals on the forums who advised me that it was mostly unplayable because of the speed penalty to melee attacks. I was told that making a Zombie character could never really be optimal, I would have to do it just for the flavor and suffer through its drawbacks.

Despite this, I designed a 12 Monk/8 Wizard progression and set to work on multiple build revisions until I felt I had eked out every possible bit of utility to make the character viable.

Here's a video I just made of the same Epic VoN1 Scroll Run (Epic Hard) with the new character build for your consideration:

Old (Pre MotU) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ex4d5nLyE
Current MotU Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-xrcQDWAXU (Master's Blitz at 2:25)

Be sure to watch in HD (Normal Resolution is AWFUL).

I'll post my build and itemization here for your feedback and comments.

Scarabis the Chosen of Vol
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(12 Monk / 8 Wizard)

Starting
Abilities Base Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1)
Strength 16
Dexterity 14
Constitution 16
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 14
Charisma 8

Tomes Used
+1 Supreme Tome used at level 3
+2 Supreme Tome used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 5 (Wizard)
Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Level 8 (Wizard)
Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 10 (Wizard)
Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 13 (Monk)
Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Level 16 (Monk)
Level 17 (Monk)
Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19 (Monk)
Level 20 (Monk)
Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Martial Arts
Level 22 (Epic)
Level 23 (Epic)
Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Level 25 (Epic)

Legendary Dreadnought:
Strength 1+2
Legendary Tactics 3/3
Extra Action Boost 3/3
Action Boost: Haste 3/3
Critical Damage 3/3
Devastating Critical 1/1
Advancing Blows 1/1
Master's Blitz 1/1

Twists:
Sense Weakness 3/3 (Fury of the Wild)
Unstoppable Fury 3/3 (Fury of the Wild)
A Dance of Flowers 3/3 (Grandmaster of Flowers)

Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound III
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Shroud of the Zombie

Minos Legens - +20hp, Heavy Fortification
Greensteel Goggles - +45hp, Concordant Opposition, +6 Wisdom
Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II - Greater Spell Penetration VIII, Wizardry VI, Transform Kinetic Energy, Exceptional Constitution +1
Epic Robe of Shadow - Superior Nullification IX, Superior Void Lore, Superior False Life, Greater Necromancy Focus, Boon of Undeath
Epic Cloak of Night - Invisibility Guard, Ghostly, Deathblock, Nightmare Guard, DR 5/Good
Epic Bracers of the Demon Consort - Demonic Curse, Demonic Shield, Demonic Retribution, Intimidate +15, Exceptional Wisdom +1, Resistance +4
Epic Brawling Gloves - 20 Unarmed Proc, +4/+6 Sneak Attack Bonus, Strength +7, Dexterity +6
Greensteel Boots - Minor Fire Guard, +50sp +2 Cha Skills, +100sp +3 Int Skills, Radiance Guard
Epic Spare Hand - +5 Exceptional Combat Mastery, 3% Doublestrike, +2 Good Luck, +1 Exceptional Dexterity +1
Sanura's Band - Intelligence +6, Exceptional Intelligence +1, Pale Master Set Bonus, Holy Burst
Epic Ring of the Stalker - Exceptional Sneak Attack +3, Seeker +6, Manslayer, Ghostly, Constitution +6, Exceptional Strength +1

Handwraps +7 Byeshk Alchemical Handwraps - Shocking Burst, Stunning +10, Alchemical Dexterity +2, Lightning Strike, Doublestrike 6%, Electric Storm
Stunning Fist DC: 55

I'd love your feedback or comments.

( EDIT: Added an Epic Elite video per thread request: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TniBDrcHUP8 )

stunning fist dc of 55? i've got a 57 on one of my builds but my wis is 16-18 points higher than yours granted i have no past lives for it but still

[Tirisha]

stunning fist dc of 55? i've got a 57 on one of my builds but my wis is 16-18 points higher than yours granted i have no past lives for it but still

do you have the 6 from deadnaught (combat tactics)?

[Lifespawn]

do you have the 6 from deadnaught (combat tactics)?

yes

[AnsharDarkangel]

stunning fist dc of 55? i've got a 57 on one of my builds but my wis is 16-18 points higher than yours granted i have no past lives for it but still

10 Base + 12 Level + 6 Dreadnought + 6 Exceptional Combat Mastery + 11 Wis (Yugoloth) + 10 Stunning = 55 DC

56 DC in Water Stance
54 DC w/o Yugo Pot
53 DC w/o Yugo Pot w/ Epic Cloak of Night instead of Adamantine Cloak of the Bear
etc

[Lifespawn]

10 Base + 12 Level + 6 Dreadnought + 6 Exceptional Combat Mastery + 11 Wis (Yugoloth) + 10 Stunning = 55 DC

56 DC in Water Stance
54 DC w/o Yugo Pot
53 DC w/o Yugo Pot w/ Epic Cloak of Night instead of Adamantine Cloak of the Bear
etc

yep my bad wasn't wearing my stunning wraps

[Ruvel]

Nice...

...and I thought my 12 hotkey bars was overkilling it...

[AnsharDarkangel]

Nice...

...and I thought my 12 hotkey bars was overkilling it...

I have to admit. I love my hotkeys.

I keep that many even on my archer. Helps me micro manage.

Vid for my Archer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K6XI3mUTiE

[emptysands]

I have to admit. I love my hotkeys.

I keep that many even on my archer. Helps me micro manage.

Vid for my Archer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K6XI3mUTiE

Nice video.

[realism]

Just Curious, what did you put your level ups into, Strength or Con?

[Arlathen]

I love this idea, although I'm a speed freak personally and couldn't live with the thought of working with -20% Base Attack speed before Haste. Eeek.

However, I was suitably impressed with the video, and the numbers flying under Master's Blitz were very, very impressive. I have a Monk/Druid in the works that will go for LD, and seeing your efforts makes me envious that it'll take me a life to build for a LD based character :D

PS Nothing is more fun than rocking out with a Flavour-based toon and doing well :D

[Bzzzt]

I have a question, why AP into the Improved Meta's instead of the Halfing Saves? Since they're unneeded for any prestige and aren't that much of a discount, wouldn't the AP be better spent in upping your saves?

[emptysands]

Your characters damage afaics:
(2 zombie+0.5 improved power attack+1 LD+1 bykesh+1 improved martial arts+1.5 dof[1d6]+16 strength+5 power attack+7 enhancement+2 ship buff+6 advancing blows)*(17 hits+2 crits for x4 damage)+(8 halfling SA+6 item SA+5 exc SA+d4 brawling+2d6 holy ring+d6 shocking)+(6 seeker+6 crit dam)*4*2+(17.5 holy burst+16.5 shocking burst)*2+(9.15 lightning strike+5 manslayer+3.5*15/20 electric storm)

(7(3.5)+5+16+7+2+6)*(17+2*4)/20+(8+6+5+2.5+7+3.5)*19/20+((6+6)*4*2+(17.5+16.5)*2)/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20

(7(3.5)+36)*25/20+32*19/20+(96+68)/20+9.15+5+3.5*15/20=131/hit

Attack speed:
normal: 93.23 * (1+ 1.2939 * (.15-.2))=87.2
Haste boost:*93.23 * (1+ 1.2939 * (.15+.3-.2))=123.4

Normal: 131*87.2*1.86/60=354 DPS
Haste boost:131*123.4*1.86/60=501 DPS


Looks like you missed the base 12 Monk 2.5[w], Ninja II 3d6 and ToD.

2.5 Monk 12
2.0 Zombie
0.5 IPA
1.0 Combat Brute
1.0 Bykesh
1.0 IMA
1.5 DOF Twist
=9.5[1d6] = 33.25

33.25
16.00 STR
05.00 PA
07.00 Item
02.00 Ship
06.00 Advancing Blows
=69.25 Base

19-20 CM
2 Handwrap base
1 Devastating Critical
1 GM Earth
=x4

Basic Damage
= ( Base * 85% * 1 + ( Base + Seeker) * 10% *4 )
= Base * ( 85% + 40% ) + Seeker * 40%
= Base * 1.2 + Seeker * .4
= 69.25 * 1.2 + 12 * .4
= 83.1 + 4.8 = 87.9


Procs @ 95%
8.0 halfling SA
6.0 item SA
5.0 exc SA
10.5 Ninja II
1.5 d4 brawling
7.0 2d6 holy ring
3.5 d6 shocking
5.0 manslayer
9.15 lightning strike
2.625 electric storm
=58.275
@95% = 55.35125

Crit Procs @10%
10.5 holy burst crit
05.5 shocking burst crit
=16
@10% = 1.6

Total damage per swing:
87.9
55.35125
1.6
=144.86125 per swing

So 391.6 dps hasted and 554.2 haste IV.

Plus ToD at say 33 dps?

Looks like you also missed the base 1[w] on your 12 wiz/7rogue/1monk calculation.

[emptysands]

Epic Brawling Gloves - 20 Unarmed Proc, +4/+6 Sneak Attack Bonus, Strength +7, Dexterity +6


What is this Unarmed Proc?

[voxson5]

Stun? On vorpal I believe

Edit - glass jaw strike, dazes opponent (as per sap) + chance of knockdown on natural 20

[Machination]

Kudos to you for making the build. I must say, I never (ok very rarely maybe one in a year or two) watch videos of DDO. But I had to watch this one.

Watching instantly brought back memories of a HORC WIZ zombie monk that was running around Khyber for a while. Don't remember the name, and of course like a lot of "spec" builds disappeared around lvl 14 or so. But running with him was always strange, because I would find myself just laughing at that running style and movement, and even had memories of Von1 watching this.

I don't think I'll make a Zombie Monk, although its temping. I'm more interested in making a couple of stick monk builds next couple of lives on alt and Zombie won't work, although it would be funny.

But one thing for sure, it is unique builds that I find most interesting right now as everything else in the game is a bit less interesting at the moment.

[wax_on_wax_off]

<400 DPS a good build does not make.

[emptysands]

<400 DPS a good build does not make.

ToD and other unarmed strike may push it over 400. Blitz obviously helps as well. Respectable enough to be not totally gimp.

Builds like this like to be more survival focused than max dps.

[wax_on_wax_off]

ToD and other unarmed strike may push it over 400. Blitz obviously helps as well. Respectable enough to be not totally gimp.

Builds like this like to be more survival focused than max dps.

This is true and I'm certainly not saying that max DPS is all that's important but in the current state of the game to be doing 60% of the DPS of a pure melee just isn't enough even on a survival build, IMO. 70%? Okay. 75%+ ? Now we're cooking.

[Machination]

Actually in the current state of the game, if you only do en and eh, I think one could get away with a lot build wise. EE is boring and you don't get much out of it anyway. Might be time to get some bank toons revived as whacky builds!!!


This is true and I'm certainly not saying that max DPS is all that's important but in the current state of the game to be doing 60% of the DPS of a pure melee just isn't enough even on a survival build, IMO. 70%? Okay. 75%+ ? Now we're cooking.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Actually in the current state of the game, if you only do en and eh, I think one could get away with a lot build wise. EE is boring and you don't get much out of it anyway. Might be time to get some bank toons revived as whacky builds!!!

Which is what a wraith or Lich melee build would be suited to, a zombie build with 8 caster levels is just a drag on completion times which is maybe barely mitigated in this case by EE quality gear.

[Bzzzt]

Roguish Wraith Build Stuffs

I have a question for you about this (little bit off track here), but how does your 12Wiz/7Rogue/1Monk reach enough BAB for GTWF? I was thinking about rolling up something along these lines and the only thing I can fathom is a feat swap at level 20 to pick it up.

[Bunker]

Did you ever consider the choice of Halfling or Half-elf. Guile vs. Rogue Dil?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I have a question for you about this (little bit off track here), but how does your 12Wiz/7Rogue/1Monk reach enough BAB for GTWF? I was thinking about rolling up something along these lines and the only thing I can fathom is a feat swap at level 20 to pick it up.

Take it at 21 or 24, MotU did good things for making the build viable.

[Nephilia]

A little answer... would it work on a 34 point build?
I was thinking about LR a toon of mine and build it like this one ;)
In case I would drop str to 15 and read a +3 tome to compensate it... sounds logical to u?

EDIT : the said toon is of the wrong race -.- Do u think it would work as a human too?

[Grond]

No matter how much dps this build carries its a hell of a lot of fun to play.



And when you've got three buddies playing PMs along with you it's even better! :)

[Trasak]

Looking at the patch notes for Tensors I am wondering if a 12 Wiz/8 Monk in Vamp form wouldn't be even better than anything else as you would have access to level 6 spells.

[Jay203]

as interesting as it might be to roll a zombie character, that ******** animation and speed is a really big turn off

glad you're having fun with it tho

[Bzzzt]

Looking at the patch notes for Tensors I am wondering if a 12 Wiz/8 Monk in Vamp form wouldn't be even better than anything else as you would have access to level 6 spells.

You can just scroll it.

[Certon]

I thought about trying this but ended up with an 18/2 Wizard/Monk Lich Form Pale Master instead, but looking at your zombie makes me want to start the grind all over again! :)

[Entelech]

Okay. I've got a level 25 (12 Wizard / 6 Paladin / 2 Rogue / 5 Epic) character on his third life (S&B Defender of Siberys Tank with Draconic Incarnation for spell damage) and a 1st life (12 Wizard / 6 Monk / 2 Fighter) as well.

From my experience, they're both pretty self sufficient and great as soloists. They're quite gear dependent (both wear the epic Mabar robe) but once you've got that and a few other goodies they can be amazingly durable...except against those obnoxious Drow Priestesses in Unreasonable Demands and Caught in the Web.

Given that experience, I agree with some other folks on this thread. Stopping at Zombie form isn't much fun.

While the green tint and shambling are kinda fun, the attack speed reduction is infuriating. The six level runup in leveling these builds between Wiz 6 and Wiz 12 is the LEAST fun part of playing them. Once you graduate from zombie to wraith, you'll feel a lot more powerful, and your blood pressure will probably drop 4 points.

PS: I routinely solo Servants of the Overlord on Epic Hard, including the "Disrupt the Ritual" optional chest on the S&B tank toon, and have soloed Sschyndryln quests on Epic Elite as well. If you're durable enough, you can tolerate reduced DPS.

[chickenmaniac]

The six level runup in leveling these builds between Wiz 6 and Wiz 12 is the LEAST fun part of playing them. Once you graduate from zombie to wraith, you'll feel a lot more powerful, and your blood pressure will probably drop 4 points.



Agreed. Going Archmage till wraith is available slightly offsets this though. But still lvling=pants till then.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Agreed. Going Archmage till wraith is available slightly offsets this though. But still lvling=pants till then.

Yep, agreed. Even on a PM that never swings a weapon zombie form is pretty lame, I just can't wrap my head around how anyone would want to live with the -20% attack speed.

On a related note, I've loved picking up the higher levels of GMoF on my unarmed rogue. Had a few fun runs through von1 on EH absolutely decimating the place, it really is about the easiest epic out I'd tend to think.

[Seikojin]

The Torc and Conc Opp item, along with the fact that I am in melee constantly, usually give me more SP than I could ever need. The only time I run out of SP is if I'm forced to nuke heal myself 4-5 times in an encounter. I almost NEVER run out of SP, certainly not before I've hit at least one shrine.

I must say, watching you dash around with zombie form is pretty hilarious. I noticed the sp regen. I am working on spellsword type roles, so this is very interesting to see.

[NemesisS117]

Nice build, impressive videos! I've been thinking about wiz mixtures, especially wiz/monk for a while now, and glad to see it can be survivable and have fairly decent dps. Question, though, couldn't you get higher dps as a h-orc? You trade up some sneak attack power for pure power, from str bonus, power attack bonus, and if you drop low on hp, orc fury. Also, can start with 16 strength, 15 dex, 16 con, 8 int, and 14 wis and have 2 points left over to put towards anything with 32 point build, even more if you've TR'd into it.

[wax_on_wax_off]

OP, as a point of reference can you please make a video killing the portal in aussirexs (sp?) valley. Can use the rules already laid out in either of the DPS threads as a base line. Sobrien would be another good point of reference (treated as a red name though so no stunning preferably).

[Galvin_Omon]

I run with a group who runs warforged mostly is there any benefits or detractors that come with being a warforged? a lot of docents

looks good, in a TR group and it looks like I would like to take a stab at this build.

Thanks for any imput

[777atheaven]

Sooo many people here knocking this guy's build, looks pretty **** ace to me. There aren't many undead/monk builds out there but this has to be at the top of most of them. Just because he choose to go zombie form instead of wraith you've got to concentrate on the negatives.

To the OP I say congrats man, looks like a sterling build:)

[AnsharDarkangel]

OP here. I went ahead and changed the build to 12 Wizard / 8 Monk to give Wraith Form a try. It does indeed seem a bit more fluid. My base damage suffered a bit, but my attack speed obviously increased. The question is where I ended up on my average hits.

I'll upload the same Epic Elite VoN1 Scroll run with Wraith form here in a bit and you can give me your opinions.

[AnsharDarkangel]

Here's the new Wraith Form video. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUFNRrS7xJY


Here's the old Zombie Form video, if you want to compare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TniBDrcHUP8

Please watch this video in HD! (Quality is awful at lower settings)

This build changed from 8 Wizard / 12 Monk (Zombie Monk) to 12 Wizard / 8 Monk (Wraith Monk). Overall, I think the change is positive. There's no more frustrating feeling when swinging at slower speeds outside of haste boosts. While I did notice a drop in damage for individual hits, due to the loss of Improved Martial Arts and a few Monk Progression Unarmed Dice, the increase in net attack speed, along with the increase to buff duration seems to balance the change out nicely.

There were suggestions on the forums indicating that I should change the build to 12 Wizard / 7 Rogue / 1 Monk to capitalize on Sneak Attack damage, but I feel 8 Monk suits my playstyle better.

8 Monk grants 10% Movement Speed, +1d6 Base Damage, 1d6 Sneak Attack (Ninja Spy), Wholeness of Body, and Two Feats. It also gives you the ability to Dual Wield Celestias for a change in Damage Type without becoming uncentered.

7 Rogue grants 4d6(+9) Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge (and potentially UMD).

Your mileage may vary. If making a Rogue build, I would cut Dodge and Cleave from the Feat List to make room for the others, which are absolutely necessary in my opinion.

Character Build:
Starting Stats (36 pt)
Str 16 (+6 Level)
Dex 14 (+3 Tome for GTWF)
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 8
+2 Supreme Tome

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 5 (Wizard)

Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell

Level 8 (Wizard)

Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 10 (Wizard)

Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Monk)

Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge

Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 16 (Monk)

Level 17 (Wizard)

Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 19 (Wizard)

Level 20 (Wizard)

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell

Level 22 (Epic)

Level 23 (Epic)

Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 25 (Epic)

Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing III
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith

Twists of Fate:
Sense Weakness (4)
Unstoppable Fury (2)
A Dance of Flowers (1)

[SensaiRyu]

Thanks for the updates. Very interesting thread and a nice flavor build.

I've been running the zombie for the past 4 days (after sitting on it for 5 months or so). Started at lvl 7, now at lvl 8.

Even on a first life toon it's a pretty survivable build. Fun to play. I like the monk part and being to roast mobs is a nice twist.

I've been toying with the idea of taking cleric dillys for the best of both worlds. Not this life, tho'.

[emptysands]

Here's the new Wraith Form video. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUFNRrS7xJY


Here's the old Zombie Form video, if you want to compare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TniBDrcHUP8

Please watch this video in HD! (Quality is awful at lower settings)


Edited side by side video might be cool. But a clock in each section and sync up different group fight sequences.

You were about 13sec faster getting to Urgol on the first locked door with the Zombie, but you finished at the last mob on the wraith about 6 sec faster.

You can really see the difference that haste boost makes to the zombie. Might be interesting to see how it played in a longer quest and not having enough action boosts.

[ormsbygore]

I like a lot of the ideas that you've put into this build. I have a similar character build that I have loved and enjoyed to play, but I haven't really revamped him since the expansion came out. If you don't mind I will defiantly be referencing this when I tweak my build. It's more heavily based on the monk and zombie form, but still a total hoot to play.

(It's linked in my signature!...but a little out of date)

[AnsharDarkangel]

Edited side by side video might be cool. But a clock in each section and sync up different group fight sequences.

You were about 13sec faster getting to Urgol on the first locked door with the Zombie, but you finished at the last mob on the wraith about 6 sec faster.

You can really see the difference that haste boost makes to the zombie. Might be interesting to see how it played in a longer quest and not having enough action boosts.

It makes sense. The zombie deals a bit more damage per hit, so while inside of the attack speed boost from Dreadnought's Haste, the attack speed penalty for Zombie becomes less relevant. Outside of it, however, is a different story.

One bad thing about using a quest like this as a yardstick is that it doesn't show you what happens when the Haste Boosts are gone, or what happens when spell points wear thin from having to do too much healing (this only happens on Epic Elite).

Something that I really like about the Wraith Build is that on non Epic Elite, the only time I need to pop a Haste Boost is if I'm looking to do some burst DPS. On the Zombie, you have to pop a haste boost if you're stuck fighting more than 5 or 6 mobs, because they'll get way too much time to whittle you down if you don't.

[Nedime]

Hey Anshar,

Just wanted to thank you. Your initial videos (and great music choice btw) made me want to play a monk/PM. In fact I wanted to play a melee PM for a while and wasn't impressed by the try I gave to monk class on Lammania. But when I saw those 2 vids I decided to take the monk class and go for a variation on the build.

So I went 12 Wizz / 6 Monk / 2 artie. Initially was going 8 monk but with my leveling dude we decided one of us should take care of traps for extra 10-15%. Instead of taking 2 rogue (with a small plus on sneak) I took 2 artie which gave me a couple buffs I used at low levels, extra sp and a mini-dog to pull levers.

Really enjoyed leveling, even though there's been some thrilling quests. Yeah RWTD especially, gnomon who double DPed me and some of the drow priestesses in MOTU. I crafted an epic phiarlan mirror cloak that I switch when I feel there may be light damage.

What I would like to add on those builds is that even if they lack DPS efficiency (I played a pure Barb on my previous life) they are really fun to play, extremely self sufficient and almost impossible to kill (provided no massive light dmg). Displacement+Ninja I+Acid fog (vampire) or Displacement+Wraith+Acid fog make you nearly untouchable - and you absorb much of what you take with your death aura (so you don't even need an ubber AC).


Thanks again for giving me the idea of playing a Trap Monpire !

[Vellrad]

Hey, OP, which server you're on?

[AnsharDarkangel]

Hey, OP, which server you're on?

Khyber.

Khyber Characters:
Scarabis (12 Wizard/8 Monk Legendary Dreadnought Wraith Monk)
Rivenstar (12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Fighter Fury of the Wild Arcane Archer)
Wimblecog (13 Rogue/7 Artificer Shiradi Champion Mechanic Battle Engineer)
Frostwhisper (?? Rogue/?? Druid Winter Wolf Assassin [In Progress])

Future Build Ideas:
???? (?? Wizard/?? Paladin/?? Fighter Death Knight)
???? (?? Rogue/?? Monk/?? Artificer Shuriken Machine Gun)
???? (?? Wizard/?? Artificer Shiradi Champion Force Missile/Rune Arm/Prismatic Adept)
???? (?? Sorcerer/?? Bard Sonic Specialist Fatesinger)

[Myrdinn]

Hey OP,

I also had a lot of fun building my undead monk and I was always unsure as to which way to go between 12 monk lvl or 12 wiz lvl, but decided to go for the 12 wiz since I love to cast spell and I hate the zombie attack speed :P

So here is my experience with mine after putting some twist due to your nice thread. I will start by listing our build difference.

First, my build is a 12wiz/6mnk/2ftr. As the why I went 2 ftr instead of 8 mnk, it's because in the past I wanted the 2 extra feats offered by the 2 lvls of ftr. But coincide perfectly with the number of feat I needed for the new twist. And I decided that 1d3 dmg was not a good enough reason to go 8 mnk, compared to having Overwhelming Critical :P

Second, I went Helf, for the rogue dilettante, which add 3d6 to sneak attack and couple with a +5 sneak attack bonus (like the drow piwawfi cloak) and Sleetstorm (which make all ennemy blind with no save) give a nice boost to dmg, about 20 dmg per attack when soloing or when behind monster in group.

Third, since wraith form give a 25% incorporeal (which doesn't stack with the ninja spy clicky), I decided against the dark path and preferred the light one for the stun immunity (with earth and light attack), the 25% reduction of spell point cost, and also the possibility of healing myself when not in undead form with the healing shield.

And last, for the feats, The 2 ftr levels enable me to add Great Cleave and Overwhelming Critical. The Cleave and Great Cleave make the group killing faster and quicken the time to attain the 50 tactical feat to activate Blitz. And GOD, the +1 multiplier from Overwhelming Critical is awesome to the DPS :)

BTW, I don't know if you saw, but some item doesn't work with undead form, like the Epic Charged Gauntlet that don't proc when undead, so when I don't need too much healing I go as a fleshy instead of undead to maximize my DPS. I hope they correct it soon!

I hope these information give you some different idea for your build and thank for your idea which make mine even more strong (I didn't know that cleave had become this good lol)

[AnsharDarkangel]

So, I ran some DPS testing.. and came up with a twist on Myrdinn's build change. I made a build that uses Vampire Form AND Shadow Fade (it still has Wraith for Light-Centric Mobs).

I compared this build to the 12 Wiz/7 Rog/1 Monk build, which was the top DPS contender in this thread so far.

Here are my results (and the build in the following post). Numbers incoming!

DPS Comparison:

12 Wizard/6 Monk/2 Fighter Vampire Wraith Monk

12 Wizard/7 Rogue/1 Monk Unarmed Wraith Rogue


Vampire Build:
Str 17 + 6 Level + 4 Tome + 2 Vampire + 2 Rage + 2 Ship + 4 Tenser's + 7 Str + 1 Ex Str + 3 In Str + 2 Enh + 2 Dest = 52 Str

Wraith Build:
Str 16 + 6 Level + 4 Tome + 2 Rage + 2 Ship + 4 Tenser's + 7 Str + 1 Ex Str + 3 In Str + 1 Dest = 46 Str


Base Damage:

Vampire Build:

3d6 Antipode + 8 Enh + .5d6 Monk + 1.5d6 ADOF + .5d6 IPA + 5 AdvB + 5 PAtk + 21 Str + 4 PCon = 62.25 Average Base Damage

Wraith Build:

3d6 Antipode + 8 Enh + 1.5d6 ADOF + .5d6 IPA + 5 AdvB + 5 PAtk + 18 Str + 4 PCon = 57.50 Average Base Damage


Critical Base Damage:

Vampire Build:

(62.25 + 6 Seeker + 6 CritD)*4 = 297 Average Crit Base Damage + 17.5 Holy Burst = 314.5

Wraith Build:

(57.50 + 6 Seeker + 6 CritD)*3 = 208.5 Average Crit Base Damage + 14 Holy Burst = 222.5


Non Base Damage:

Vampire Build:

3d6 RogD + 1d6 NSpy + 11 ItemSA + 2d6 Antipode + 2d6 ToDH + 1d4 BGl = 41.5 Additional Damage per Hit

Wraith Build:

4d6 RogSA + 9 Enh + 8 HalfG + 11 ItemSA + 2d6 Antipode + 2d6 ToDH + 1d4 BGl = 58.5 Additional Damage per Hit


Average Hit:

Vampire Build:

62.25 + 41.5 = 103.75 per Hit
314.5 + 41.5 = 356.00 per Crit (10% Chance)
Average Hit Including Crits: 128.975
Crit/Sneak Attack Immune Average: 78.750 (6.42% Better than Wraith Build)

Wraith Build:

57.50 + 58.5 = 116.00 per Hit
222.5 + 58.5 = 281.00 per Crit (10% Chance)
Average Hit Including Crits: 132.500 (2.73% Better than Vampire Build)
Crit/Sneak Attack Immune Average: 74.000

[AnsharDarkangel]

Half-Elf 12 Wizard/6 Monk/2 Fighter

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 17 28
Dexterity 14 18
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 9 16
Wisdom 14 21
Charisma 8 12

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) x2
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 5 (Wizard)

Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell

Level 8 (Wizard)

Level 9 (Wizard))
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 10 (Wizard)

Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Monk)

Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave

Level 17 (Wizard)

Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell

Level 19 (Wizard)

Level 20 (Wizard)

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical

Level 22 (Epic)

Level 23 (Epic)

Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell

Level 25 (Epic)

Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing III
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith

[AnsharDarkangel]

And here's the Rogue-centric build for people who like that variant.

Halfling 12 Wizard/7 Rogue/1 Monk

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 14 20
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 8 15
Wisdom 14 18
Charisma 8 12

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 5 (Wizard)

Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell

Level 8 (Wizard)

Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 10 (Wizard)

Level 11 (Rogue)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Rogue)

Level 14 (Rogue)

Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 16 (Rogue)

Level 17 (Wizard)

Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell

Level 19 (Wizard)

Level 20 (Wizard)

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 22 (Epic)

Level 23 (Epic)

Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic Toughness (One Ability Up into Con to make this possible)

Level 25 (Epic)

Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith

[AnsharDarkangel]

Final Conclusion from Comparison:

While more vulnerable to light damage mobs, the Vampire variant has higher base damage, which makes it slightly more effective versus mobs who are either immune or resistant to critical damage or sneak attack. It also boasts slightly higher life and constant self healing from attacking, which stacks with the healing from Death Aura, Negative Energy Burst, and robe heal-on-hit. Via Shadow Fade, the build still has the same 25% incorporeality that the Wraith build boasts.

The Rogue Wraith Build has slightly higher damage versus sneak-attackable targets, with the added benefit of being able to disarm traps. Uncanny Dodge provides more defense in the form of passive dodge bonuses and a clickable damage avoidance button which stacks nicely with Thick Skinned from Dreadnought for when it really counts. The Rogue Wraith also sports the ability to use UMD.

The damage profile from both builds is close enough to make it a decision based on playstyle rather than viability.

[ThreeEyedBob]

Hey Anshar, try an Undead Fury variation :-)

6 Barbarian Frenzied Berserker 1, 2 Rogue, 12 Wizard PM Wraithform.

Equip Falchion of gobsmacking and have fun :-)

My project is called Microwraith the Undead Fury (halfling). Khyber here too.

[ormsbygore]

Hey Anshar, try an Undead Fury variation :-)

6 Barbarian Frenzied Berserker 1, 2 Rogue, 12 Wizard PM Wraithform.

Wouldn't you be unable to self-heal with burst or hage while raged...except for pre-cast auras and inflict pots?

[Myrdinn]

Hey OP :)

Thanks for outlining the build as a more detailed version, very interesting.

Just one thing that you forget to take into account, the Cleave and Greater Cleave, these 2 feats amount to a lot of DPS, even more when fighting multiple trash mob. Cleave add 1d6 to monster in front while Great Cleave add 2d6 to monster in front and on a 5 seconds timer each. Since most of the time there is more than 1 ennemy against you, it really add up to the DPS, and when fighting boss, most of them are immune to sneak.

Also the fact that you have 2 more feats that count as tactical feat for Blitz, it easily make the blitz timer 2x faster, which mean the difference between using it and not using it in some quest, and god when it is active, it saves a lot of time :)

But I also like the rogue build for the versatility, but dmg wise, I think the Undead vamp is still ahead.

But I still need to say that the gear make a huge difference, I can say I was far from being this powerful the first time I reached lvl 20 :P

I will prolly start reincarnating soon, since my toon never left its first live :P

[AnsharDarkangel]

Myrdinn,

To try this new build out (since I'd need to fully TR to become a half-elf) I went ahead and made a variant of the build for Halfling. The dps is VERY close to the other build (2.5 less sneak attack, 1 less base base damage from strength), so it's giving me a great idea of where the build will end up. I have to say I'm very happy with it. I ran Epic Elite VoN1 (which is usually my yardstick for toons) and was very happy from all the healing that Vampire Form really tosses into the mix. It takes a little bit of getting used to to hit Shadow Fade every minute.

I was able to solo Epic Normal Chronoscope, which gives a nice smattering of different situations and enemies.

I feel like this build is very very close to as perfect as I can make it without them adding new content or items.

[Myrdinn]

Anshar,

Glad I was able to provide good insight :)

Did you do the 12wiz/6mnk/2ftr?

oh, and btw, teaming up with multiple full wiz pm just make it so easy to do quest lol

[Myrdinn]

Btw Anshar, I was curious about your gear.

I have a lots of epic gear and have been playing with them from time to time and I was wondering if what I have is ok or if you had better idea for this :)

[WestiesMA]

Myrdinn,

To try this new build out (since I'd need to fully TR to become a half-elf) I went ahead and made a variant of the build for Halfling. The dps is VERY close to the other build (2.5 less sneak attack, 1 less base base damage from strength), so it's giving me a great idea of where the build will end up. I have to say I'm very happy with it. I ran Epic Elite VoN1 (which is usually my yardstick for toons) and was very happy from all the healing that Vampire Form really tosses into the mix. It takes a little bit of getting used to to hit Shadow Fade every minute.

I was able to solo Epic Normal Chronoscope, which gives a nice smattering of different situations and enemies.

I feel like this build is very very close to as perfect as I can make it without them adding new content or items.

Can you please post the halfling version of the vampire/wraith build?

Thanks so much!

[AnsharDarkangel]

Can you please post the halfling version of the vampire/wraith build?

Thanks so much!

Halfling Version:

Strength 16
Dexterity 14
Constitution 16
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 14
Charisma 8

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) x2
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 5 (Wizard)

Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell

Level 8 (Wizard)

Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 10 (Wizard)

LLevel 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Monk)

Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave

Level 17 (Wizard)

Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell

Level 19 (Wizard)

Level 20 (Wizard)

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical

Level 22 (Epic)

Level 23 (Epic)

Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 25 (Epic)

Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith

[AnsharDarkangel]

Btw Anshar, I was curious about your gear.

I have a lots of epic gear and have been playing with them from time to time and I was wondering if what I have is ok or if you had better idea for this :)

Helm Minos Legens - +20hp, Heavy Fortification
Goggles Greensteel Goggles - +45hp, Concordant Opposition, +6 Wisdom
Necklace Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II - Greater Spell Penetration VIII, Wizardry VI, Transform Kinetic Energy, Exceptional Constitution +1
Chest Epic Robe of Shadow - Superior Nullification IX, Superior Void Lore, Superior False Life, Greater Necromancy Focus, Boon of Undeath
Cloak Epic Cloak of Night - Invisibility Guard, Ghostly, Deathblock, Nightmare Guard, DR 5/Good
Bracers Epic Bracers of the Demon Consort - Demonic Curse, Demonic Shield, Demonic Retribution, Intimidate +15, Exceptional Wisdom +1, Resistance +4
Gloves Epic Brawling Gloves - 20 Unarmed Proc, +4/+6 Sneak Attack Bonus, Strength +7, Dexterity +6
Boots Greensteel Boots - Minor Fire Guard, +50sp +2 Cha Skills, +100sp +3 Int Skills, Radiance Guard
Belt Epic Spare Hand - +5 Exceptional Combat Mastery, 3% Doublestrike, +2 Good Luck, +1 Exceptional Dexterity +1
Ring 1 Sanura's Band - Intelligence +6, Exceptional Intelligence +1, Pale Master Set Bonus, Holy Burst
Ring 2 Epic Ring of the Stalker - Exceptional Sneak Attack +3, Seeker +6, Manslayer, Ghostly, Constitution +6, Exceptional Strength +1

Handwraps +7 Byeshk Alchemical Handwraps - Shocking Burst, Stunning +10, Alchemical Dexterity +2, Lightning Strike, Doublestrike 6%, Electric Storm
+7 Epic Calomel Handwraps - Greater Dragon Bane, Tidal Burst, Crushing Wave, Corrosive Salt, Lifedrinker
+6 Epic Wraps of Endless Light - Light Bringer, Greater Undead Bane, Brilliance, Radiant Blast
+5 (Special Material) Vicious of Greater Bane Handwraps, Crafted

Trink 1 Litany of the Dead - +1 Profane Bonus to All Ability Scores, +1 Profane Bonus to Attack and Damage, Turn the Page

Still Missing:
+4 Tomes to all Stats (Which lets me discard Litany and just use it for TRing and SP Discounts)
Antipode, Fist of the Horizon (With upgrades)
Planar Focus of Prowess (+3 Insightful Str, +4/+4, Phys Res)
New level 24 versions of the Cloak/Robe (Didn't come back from my hiatus until after the new Mabar event)